Happy Sad Confused - Josh Brolin, Vol. II

Episode Date: August 7, 2025

What happens when you combine one of our best actors with one of our most unfiltered conversationalists? You get Josh Brolin! Josh returns to the podcast to chat about WEAPONS, AVENGERS memories, roles he turned down including AVATAR, and more. UPCOMING EVENTS! Ben Stiller & Seth Rogen LIVE in Los Angeles on August 15th! ⁠⁠Get your tickets here ⁠⁠ Check out the ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Happy Sad Confused patreon here⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠! We've got discount codes to live events, merch, early access, exclusive episodes, video versions of the podcast, and more! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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moment there where actors were just only interested in being famous. Yeah. You know, and it was really depressing. And you go back to like me and Benicio and Mark and all that where we were studying with Stella Adler and we were like in it. We were in it. You know, you do a scene just to do it. You get together with people in the weekends and read through plays and you were in it.

Yeah. You know, you were up against each other in a hallway and listening to the this and you were competing with the person, but you were friends with the person. and you didn't want them to get it, but you did want them to get it. You know what I mean? All that stuff. So I feel like there's a new echelon of actors

that have kind of gone back to this guttural, visceral place. Prepare your ears, humans. Happy, sad, confused begins now. Hey, guys, it's Josh, and welcome to another edition of Happy, Sad, Confused. Today's main event is Josh Broan, one of our great actors talking all things weapons and his illustrious, amazing career.

Thanks, guys, as always, for checking out the podcast. This is a fun one, great actor, great conversational list. What more can you ask for? Satisfaction guaranteed in the next 45 to, I don't know, hour. Time flew by with Josh Brolin. It's a good one. Before we get to that, some announcements, updates. As always, all this stuff always is available on our Patreon.

Go there for early access and discount codes and merch. Patreon.com slash happy. say I confused. It really means a lot. We put up a really cool extended, unedited version of our Outlander, of my Outlander conversation I did for MTV. MTV was kind enough to let me have the full unvarnished, unedited for good or her bad conversation with Sam, Richard, and Sophie. So if you're an Outlander fan, check that out exclusively on our Patreon in addition to, as I said, early announcements of guests and you can ask questions and yada, yada, yada. Speaking of events, two of our want to mention August 14th in New York City. I am talking to the stars and director of Thursday

Murder Club, which is the new Netflix film. We're showing the film at Paris at the Paris Theater. All this information is in the show notes, the link for it. We're showing the film. Then it's going to be followed by a Q&A that I do with get this got a hold of this lineup. Pierce Brosnan, Helen Mirren, Ben Kingsley, director Chris Columbus. Pretty cool. So I believe tickets are still available. for that one. Check it out. And then the next day, I hop on a flight, quick flight to L.A., because I'm doing Ben Stiller and Seth Rogen together, which is going to be a blast. I'm so excited for this one. The bad news is tickets have sold out. I mean, it's good news for me. I'm happy. Tickets sold out almost immediately. But usually we do offer a couple last minute seats. Invariably,

seats come available to the very last minute. So check out my Instagram page. I'll announce if and when seats become available because those will go fast. Those are the two big upcoming events to mention. In addition, market calendars or New York Comic-Con. Try to come by because I'll be doing a lot of stuff for that. More info to come on that one. Okay, quick preamble, Josh Brolin, then we'll get right to it. I don't need to sell you on Josh Brolin.

He's one of the great, particularly the last two decades since no country for old men kind of revitalized his career. been working with so many great filmmakers. Obviously, he's a regular with Denny Villeneuve, Sicario, Dune, et cetera. But even you look at his upcoming stuff, Edgar Wright, the running man. He's re-teaming with Ridley Scott, Ryan Johnson, in the New Knives Out movie. This guy just picks great filmmaker after great filmmaker, and he's done it again. This time with a rising filmmaker.

Zach Krieger is the writer-director behind Barbarian, which, of course, made a big splash a couple years ago. If you haven't seen it, see it, it's wild and fantastic. And his new film, Weapons, which opens this week,

really great. And a step up in many ways. The filmmaking is impeccable. It is a big swing. You guys know I love big swings. Horror, but also just deep drama, some absurd comedy.

And, yeah, the less said, the better. You've seen the trailer. You probably get a sense of the premise, which is essentially, a bunch of kids leave their parents' homes in the middle of the night, what happened, where did they go?

Yeah, so harrowing stuff, Josh Brolin, Alden-Earnreich, Julia Garner, a real cool ensemble. Highly recommend it, and Josh kills it in it, as always. This is a great chat. He is unvarnished, no BS, one of those guys. We talk a lot about the successes, yes, the Sicarios, the Avengers films, but also the thing. that he's turned down birdman avatar green lantern very open and honest so um i love this chat i

think you'll love it too without any further ado here's me and josh brolin there's a professional josh brolin giving his own sink clap you're full service that way i am thanks for doing this man it's good to see it yeah it's really good to see you um we are talking oh great many things because it's a podcast but we're talking weapons. This is one of the good ones. When did you exhale and say it's one of the good ones? It's funny, you just said that because I just did CBS Morning, and I was like, you know, it's not fun doing this

when you have a movie that sucks. You have been, you've done a lot of movies, and I've talked to you for a lot of different movies. Some great ones. And some, a couple, not great. When, have you been in that situation where like during a press store, it hits you like, oh, the way they're talking to me?

You know, at the beginning. Not during the beginning. I know immediately. Or I know. Or I have my own feelings about it. I mean, look, like, it's been enough time now, but we've talked about it a lot. Jonah Hex. I talked to you for that one.

You know, I talked, it brought in a lot of people. I brought in Malcovic. I brought in Megan. I brought in Michael Shannon, who was totally cut out. It brought in FastBender. All these people. So you have this silver platter of actors. And then the movie doesn't turn out necessarily as good.

And not even the director's fault. And I've given the director's shit, but the director's cut was actually pretty good. And then the studio took it over, and then it wasn't very good. But you know when everybody goes up an octave, there's a problem. They're like, oh, my God. It's like, super good, you know? I saw it. You're like, I know you saw it.

The costumes are. Oh, my God. John, how'd you get John? Do you lean in then during the press store or do you, or hang back? Do you kind of like, you know, I'm in. No, but I try to be. I mean, you know this about me. I try to be real and authentic.

You know, I don't necessarily sell it based on my extremely positive reaction. I'll say things like, it has an audience, stuff like that. I want the list of keyboards to listen for for the next time. You make it done. You'll notice it. Do you, what's the sensation now when you sit down to see a film for the first time that you've been in? Do you go in with optimism, dread, like, you've, again, been doing this a minute. Are you kind of an open audience, or how do you feel kind of when you first sit down?

I think every film I sit down for, I'm open. I think that there is an innate reaction that I have being a lover of film that I, that started when I was very young, where the movie theater was the one, not necessarily at home, the movie theater is the one place where I strip away all ego and all like predetermined reaction and I'm open to it all. So I'll see movies, my kids that are older, I'll have seen movies with them, cry through the whole movie,

and then they go, are you okay? And then I go, you know, what do you think? And I go, and this is not very good movie. Right. But I'm totally open to you.

I am an open vessel. I'm an exposed nerve. to the experience. So when I see a movie in mind, I'm hoping that it's good. But I just said this recently, because the reaction to, and I know we're going to talk about it, the reaction to weapons is a major, it's one of the biggest reactions of any premiere

I've ever been to. And it wasn't a typical premiere audience, where it was a bunch of people in the industry going, oh my God, you're so great, you're always so great. How do you do it? To people really reacting, like fear. Vicerral reaction. That's the kind of you did this.

It reminded me of like a Tarantino film where it's like, I want to leave. I know I shouldn't be experiencing this and I can't leave. I can't even go to the bathroom and get popcorn because I have to see what happens next. So when you're dealing with a movie like that, it's much easier to promote. So before we get to Weapons, I'm curious. Do you remember the first times you saw yourself on screen, Goonies, Thrash and those premieres and how you reacted seeing yourself in that context? Yeah, but I was I was yeah, I was younger. I wasn't used to it yet. So when I saw the goonies, like I heard how high my voice was. And I was like, well, fuck, why do I speak like that? I sound like I have a perpetual cold. Like, is it drugs? And then we got into thrash and then thrash and then thrash in I was devastated. I thought I was so bad. You know, and that's why I taught I don't I don't do that anymore. I used to do.

that. Somebody say, hey, man, I love you in Thrasher. And you go, yeah, it wasn't good, you know, and I do a whole thing. No, you don't want, exactly. So I don't do that anymore because some of the experiences are very personal. But Thrashen, to me, even though it's become this, like, cult film, it was, was a moment where I said, okay, it was like, either go learn how to do this or stop, like, stop hurting people. Like, you're hurting people. You're acting. I feel effective you are as an actor. You're actually hurting people. You're hurting people. You're not representing the human condition very well. So how did you recover from that?

It took a minute. It took a while. No, I moved to New York, and I was very lucky to kind of get together with a guy named Anthony Zerby who turned me on to, like, plays and books. And I started doing plays, and I started, yeah, my whole trajectory changed. It's funny. You always talk about Anthony Zerby. It's like, my reference point for him is, like, as a Star Trek fan, I think he was like

a bad guy in a Star Trek movie. I know he's so important to you. He is. He's so, and he's not the Star Trek guy to me. Of course not. I don't even think I saw it, but anyway. Probably not its finest. I won't do this the whole time.

No, you're good. You're good. You're good. It struck me. So, like, turning to weapons, you're working with this filmmaker, Zach Kregor. Yeah. Those of watch or listen to the podcast know his work because they know Barbarian was such a phenomenal, kind of out of nowhere.

Success. Work from him. Yeah. It struck me to looking at your career. We've talked about kind of the trajectory of the last 15, 20 years. You haven't worked with that many filmmakers starting out. You've worked with the established. the gods, right?

I've been very lucky. But the last two, at least that have been released, brothers and this one are relatively early in the trajectory of filmmakers' work. Has that been something like, are you wary to put yourself in the hands of someone that's relatively just starting out? Yeah, because you're protected.

You're protected, even if the movie doesn't turn out well, you know the filmmaker and he has an Uber. Like, I turned Deni down for Sicario a couple of times, And that's been out there, and it's not meant to be insulting in any way. But he had done four or five films before that. But I was like, I don't know his work, and my, and this. Because you're protected. If you're working with Ridley on American Gangster,

if you're working with the Cohen's, like, they may not do a great film every single time. But the odds are pretty fucking good. And even if the film's not that great, you know it's going to be cut together well. You know it's going to be good music. You know, the production design is going to. going to be good, you know, all that stuff.

So when the, you know, quote, newbies come along, and I know this was a decision for me. I was like, look, I'm, there's something that feels stale to me, even though I feel like we've been doing really good movies, really interesting movies, we've been mixing it up. And I'm constantly trying to mix it up, just be out of my own interest.

It's like Deadpool 2. Like, why would I do that? I've never been interested in that. Right. I'm 50 at the time. Could I get in that kind of shape? Could we deal with a comedy with Ryan Reynolds? Can I hold my own?

Like, it all got very scary to me. And I was like, I like that kind of fear. So with Zach, yeah, he was, I hadn't seen Barbarian. Right. I did read the script because Pedro Pascal dropped out because he had a scheduling conflict, which I think is okay to say. I read the script immediately. I thought it was amazingly designed.

It reminded me of following, like, early Nolan and popping around. And I always loved that early Inuritu, early Nolan thing. And my own book is not linear. Perspective and like past, future, this, that. And then I wanted to meet him. And I met him. And he told me immediately that every character

was based on a reaction that he had had in the trajectory of his grieving process. as for a friend to his that had died. And I was, we were both very emotional during that thing. And I was like, now this is so left field. You know, this is a whole, we're talking about the same horror movie, right? It's cosmetic and, you know, all this kind of stuff. And then you're telling me about this profound experience or the underpinnings.

And I love that. And then he's using the horror genre as a tool, you know, to manifest whatever this grief is that he's feeling. So I was hooked at that point. Then I saw Barbarian. Then I was confused because I thought Barbarian was super good, but it was funny, but it was scary, but it was absurd. So I called my daughter Eden and I said, have you seen this Barbarian movie? She was like, oh my God, best movie the last five years. And I was like, okay, let me talk to your husband. I talked to her husband. Same thing. Called more 20 and 30 something. Same thing, like across the board, a barbarian. barbarian, amazing, since a incredible movie, hilarious, scary, whatever.

So obviously he has his finger on the pulse of something unique. I mean, I will say, and I don't know, I mean, everyone's kind of their own interpretation of the movie, I think this movie is all of that, too. I do too. It, you know, without revealing stuff, it gets wild and actually funny for a, to me, at times, for a movie that is very much rooted in human grief and frailty and all the stuff. But it also goes to weird, crazy places that, I don't know, maybe it's a defense mechanism to laugh, but I was laughing a little bit by the last act.

And I think, I don't know, I like those big swings from filmmakers. Me too. Like, you know, I know Magnolia has been offered as a reference point, and I get that, the reference points, like, because it's changing perspectives. But, like, Magnolia for me is, like, that crazy thing of, like, how does this all work? This is comedy. This is drama. This is absurdity.

This is fantasy. and the grades somehow can make it all work somehow in a stew. But as an art piece, I remember seeing Magnolia for the first time, and just being an absolute awe. Yeah. But there's an artistry to that. Not that there's not an artistry to Zach's movie. I think there absolutely is.

But Zach's movie is way more fun. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? 100%. And I knew that. So when you go into it, your initial question is like, you take chances on people like I do and I haze and I know I do it I'm like better don't fuck this up man and like are you the real thing or whatever right and then I

saw the movie and I was like holy shit like that was a real experience do you are you the type of actor that takes takes it home with you because this is a dark headspace to be in you know I wouldn't necessarily think you would want to live this guy's pain and suffering and yeah I know it's yeah I don't know if I take it home I mean I got kids that I'd be, you know. Cruel to them. Yeah, it would be cruel to them. Are you a monster?

Sorry, this is for the art. Do you want to kill me? I know you're four, you know. But generally over your career, has that adjusted? Has that changed? Has that changed? I think it's changed. It depends on the movie.

It depends on the role. It depends on, to me, this is not a performance movie, even though I think all the performances are really good and the actors are really good. It's really a story film. I mean, it's just, it's. Again, it's like watching a Tarantino movie where you're just wrapped up in the story. You're wrapped up in the type of, you're wrapped up in his tone, his cadence, all that kind of stuff. And I think that the same thing goes with Zach.

But the premiere of this movie, I don't know other than Avengers Endgame, which is 10 years in the making, I don't know that I've ever been to such a reactive premiere in my life. And you said, almost embarrassingly, you were like, okay, I laughed a little bit, and they knew this. People were uproariously laughing and obviously, like, scared out of their minds. I also love, yeah, without, again, revealing stuff. I love not realizing that, you know, the eighth lead in the film is going to have their own kind of arc in an hour into the movie. Like, I fell in love with Austin Abrams, like Williams' performance in a film. Yeah, I thought it was great.

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for complete terms and conditions. You've kind of really done a lot of horror in your career. I mean, We could talk Mimic. Yeah. Mimic was, I mean, talk about working with a great filmmaker and taking a bet.

That was a good bet to make. That was a good bet. Guillermo has spoken extensively. That was not a great experience for him. No. Did you see him having the goods on that experience? Like, did you see him a filmmaker in turmoil? Or what do you remember about going through that?

No, I mean, he showed me, I mean, we all know them now. Nobody knew them then. He showed me his journals back then. He turned me on to the monk, which is one of the great books that he turned me on to, back then. I remember him almost getting fired. I remember Jeremy Northern almost getting fired and me replacing him.

I remember, I mean, there was a lot of, I remember Uliybornadel who directed Nightwatch. Yeah. Almost replaced Guillermo. Oh, wow. And Nightwatch came out and nobody saw it. But there was, Guillermo was engaged, man. He was engaged and he's still engaged.

I just saw him not too long ago. And he was like, Brolin, what's up? You know what I mean? He's just, he has something really special, and he had it back then. And I wasn't doing well at that point, but in a lot of different ways. Yeah. But he was an exciting moment for me. Do you know what I mean?

Zach is an exciting moment for me, you know? So when you have, you know, Dini and Sicario was an exciting moment. But you're collaborating. that's the difference like with dene with with with with Guillermo with Zach it was a real collaboration it was like it just lands there right away with with dene we were writing scenes in Sicario and you know Benicia doesn't want to learn all that dialogue it just one he knows it's all right there and then i it needs to be said it's like expositional sit how do we make it behavioral and then me and dene would be sitting there writing scenes 15 minutes before we do it you know

that's a collaboration I just up with Benicio for the West Anderson movie. We were reminiscing about Sicario, yeah. And famously just him like stripping away so much. And like what a genius move that was because the power of that guy without words. Without words. It's everything.

All he needs to do is, and you have to exploit. And then when you've been around long enough, like me and Benicio worked together the first time when we were 19 years old. And a thing called... Oh, TV series. Yeah. It was called Private Eye. It was Bario Knights.

It was a two-part... episode arc, you know, and he, like, I think it's in the scene, like he's in the middle of the scene and he starts hitting something and we're all taking ourselves so seriously and there's no objectivity. Whereas now it's like, there's technique and there's objectivity and I can utilize myself in this way and I think this lends to the story better and you start to think of it more from, you know, a few steps back. So you mentioned Benicio and knowing him from way back when, who were like your contemporaries early on that you were going up against for roles going you know talking acting

talking shop was like Sean back then no Sean was all somebody we all looked up to he was all John and Mickey and like I just had dinner with Sean and Nolte and and a couple of other people my agency the voice it was great and was and Sean was saying very openly was saying it's so funny because Sean really became an actor when Nolte did a rich man poor man yeah and said that's what I want to do and Sean was saying he was like 20 at the time and he was saying I've got time because Noltee didn't really hit until he was like 40 I think he did rich man poor man when he was 38 or 39 right around the same time that I did no country so Sean had all

this time and then suddenly these younger movies started coming out and then it was like yeah that was it so then fast times and then bad boys and all that And then I was looking up to Sean. So you have this table where I've done, I think, two or three movies with Nolte. I've done two movies with Sean. And, you know, now it's like one big, happy, dysfunctional friendship. Nolte is on that continuum for me. He's like that Gene Hackman level of, like, without a false note.

Like, I've never heard anything come out of his mouth. Ever. Even though he's talking like that. What? I do what I do you're just like what the fuck did he did the podcast many years ago and told like an insane Terrence Malick story that I feel like I only understood 40% of but even just the growl it didn't matter it's the whole thing yeah if you're being growled out it's a good thing so so who were the ones that were getting the roles ruffalo oh okay ruffalo was a contemporary but you know going through his own

thing benicio but I remember like god man I read for oh wait bear with me why that was Benicio and and and Meg Ryan Benicio and no no sorry Denzel Washington and Meg Ryan oh yeah courage under fire courage under fire was Ed Zwick so I read for it I remember going in and reading for that room and they were like hey thank you thank you for coming in and I begged to get back in that room I used every possible tool, person, whatever, to get, because I was like, I know that role. Was this the Matt Damon role? And it wasn't the Matt Damon role.

It was, I'll tell you. And then, and I walked back, I got somebody to get me back in that room. And I walked in and I knew immediately, like there was no way. Yeah. It was impossible. I was a nobody. I wasn't a good actor maybe or whatever. And they walked in and they go, hey.

I was like, oh, fuck, man. You know, and they're like, I said, is there anything? You know, I went through it once. it once and it's anything else you want me to do they're like no thank you though so much and it was lou diamond phillips that got it yeah and i was and i love lou but i was super bummed because i was like you know it didn't you know there were ruffalo's in my mind or benicio's in my mind and then lou was a little below that and then you know you have your kind of echelon of people and i was somewhere down here you know i was like an afterthought you our last podcast conversation you

intimated, there was like one role that you kind of regretted turning down in recent years. And I finally figured it out because you mentioned it was Inuit, so it was the Edward Norton role in Birdman, right? So is that something where, like, what's your relationship to that film because of turning down? I love that film. You're able to kind of disassociate and still. Immediately, man. If somebody, I mean, this happens all the time. It's like, you know, milk was supposed to be Matt.

Right, right. So it's like, it happens all the time. And you don't even think twice about it. But Deadpool 2 was supposed to be Brad. When I walked into the office and saw drawings of Brad everywhere, you know? They didn't even hide them. No, Jurassic Park was supposed to be me.

Pratt walked in there and he saw drawings of me everywhere. So it doesn't matter. It's just like part of the deal. But when I saw Edward in that role, he's perfect. He kills it. He kills it. So that was one of those things where I go, because I had done the table reading.

And it was funny. Yeah. And then I pulled out because I went and saw my son in Thailand. So I know why I pulled out. I wouldn't change it even today. Yeah. But I would have liked to have done that movie. And I love Eneree, too.

I think he's amazing. Yeah, you always bring him up. It sounds like you think he's amazing. Yeah. And I think that's probably it. Because I see him on the street in Venice and all that. And he goes, I'm done. I'm very happy that Tom Cruise is working with him.

I know. That Tom is. That's exciting. Yes, we love Tom in the mission movies. I want to see Tom in something like that. Dude, I saw Tom recently at CinemaCon, you know, and he's so like, you know, hey man, how you doing? You know, it's like, you're going to make another one, aren't you? Yes, 19.

It's going to be amazing. I'll be hanging off a thread in the thing in the sky and the thing. I'm going to jump 127,000 feet. You're like, great. But you forget that Tom was born on the 4th of July. Oh, I don't forget. I don't forget either. Color of money.

Dude, with the best. Like, as film fanatics. Like, he was so inspiring when we were young. So he was somebody that we looked up to. I always say, you look at, like, the first 10, 15 years of his career and the way he selected filmmakers, it was like Sidney Pollock, Scorsese, Stone. It was just, he ran through everybody. It was a big influence for me, just like you say, going for the, like, once you have the opportunity,

after doing no country, I just say, I just want to work with great filmmakers. Yes, but do you want that much money? Right. And you could work for, and you're like, I really do. want that much money. I really do. I could utilize it well. I'm good with business and all that kind of stuff. But if I take it, I know it's the only money that I'll get. So I'm going to go take this way, way, way less money, but way better job, way better filmmaker. And it does. And I know that Tom Cruise had a major impact on me in that way. Speaking of major money, Thanos, the Avengers

films. That's my segue. That's funny. That's my drugged up segue. Was there a moment or more early on where you're like, is this really going to work? Are they going to buy the purple guy on screen? I mean, I'm delivering the best I can, but this is also a lot of artisans need to make this. No, because there's a level of absurdity that I enjoy so much that it goes back to. And I've said it a million times, but it goes back to like Black Box Theater. When you have no money and you're pretending that.

this thing is a gun right you know and you're just like no do it and if you have enough conviction it actually people will start to think it's a gun yeah um and and there was a level of that where they would even because they were afraid it was going to get out give us a phony scene and then give us the real scene when we'd get there which to me is like hell yeah because i can't prep i can't this i'm thinking about the lines and all this kind of stuff but it all worked out And by the way, that was supposed to be, what do you call it, a, like a cameo. It was supposed to be, when it was first brought to me, I was doing the Everest movie, and I was in London, and they brought me this huge Bible, and they were like, you know, it's just little thing, and it's going to be, you know, in it for like 10 minutes or something. And then it turned, and then they changed it and turned into this whole thing.

But no, I really, that was one movie, and I've said it, Deadpool, too. I was like you know I'm glad it was one experience right you know right the Thanos thing if they called me in London right now and said let's do this I'd be like I'll I'll be there tomorrow I mean are you in contact obviously downy is back we're excited to see what he does with do and like do you stay in touch with Downy the Russo's and are you abreast I talked to Downy probably four to six times a year I talked to the Russo's probably four to six times a week I mean I talked to Joe a lot a lot I mean we have a business that

we're doing together and all this kind of stuff. But I love them. I love both of them. I think they're amazing. So it wouldn't be a tough proposition. I mean, obviously, like, you don't want to go back and do a lesser version. You went out on such a great note, but like,

you have confidence in these guys if they come up with something that makes sense. Of course, they're going to come up with something really fun. I mean, who knows? Yeah. Who knows? That was a 10 year in the building kind of thing. And, you know, that was its own kind of book into deal.

And I don't know what they're going to do, but I'm sure it'll be interesting. I think they do that very, very, very well. Yeah, also just the fluidity of the scripts, like, I mean, again, as an actor, you were just saying this, like, prep is everything. Everything. So, like, endgame and infinity, like, the scripts were, I don't know how, if they were ever locked. I don't think so. I don't know.

But I don't think so. But I don't think so. Like, here, Josh, is your script for these two films. Ever. I never knew. And I did Deadpool in the middle of it. So I would leave. That's a lot of chaos.

Like, I would be a little fat. during one and then I'd leave and then I got in really good shape and then I'd come back with a different haircut and all that and then I'd finish that scene and we'd do things over that didn't necessarily work the first time and all that yeah do you have any specific memories of the final confrontation with Downey when you murdered poor Iron Man yeah I remember the late Jimmy Rich who was a really close friend of mine who was Downey's right-hand guy who's not around anymore got in an accident right um handing off Nicotine gum.

I remember Downey would do this and Jimmy Rich would be there with a piece of nicotine gum. That's what I remember about the end. I don't know. And I remember I was in my thing. It's like there's a couple of times that I remember putting my hand on Downey's head. Super uncomfortable. Little sexual. And then there was another moment where I was with Zoe.

And, you know, I wore the back piece where the Thanos head is way, way up. way, way up, which is how tall he would be. So she had to look at that during the scene, kind of an emotional scene, and I had to look at her crotch. So she's looking at that, and I'm looking at that. This is why they pay you the big bucks. Territment. That's for technical.

Shut it all out. If only Ed Swick had used him, when he could have. I can play to Denzel's crotch if you need to meet him. Totally. Totally. You haven't done theater in a while, and you did True West here about 25 years ago. Was it 25? Yeah, it's 25.

2000. Yeah, 2000. Which is a very famous production, of course, Phil Hoffman, John C. Riley, Ewan. I never know how to pronounce his name. I love him. Alius Cateas. Cateas. Is there some kind of unfinished business of like going back to theater?

I mean, you have so many opportunities right now. If I didn't have young kids, you know, Scott Rudin, I talked to once in a while, it was It was asked of me recently if I wanted to do something. And I know, and I don't say this with conceit, but I say it with, I know if we wanted to do something. I just saw Clooney do his thing. I was very moved by it. I thought he did a great job.

But why? Right. For the theater, like if it's a great piece, and especially if it's a new piece, you know, I had just written a play. And Patricia Arquette did the reading of the play, just to hear it. And it was so great to be in that position to be able to hear a play on a very kind of a naked raw level

that wasn't the It play or the this or that. So if I went and did To Kill a Mockingbird, I go, well, Jeff Daniels just did that. That was great for him. And it had been a while since it had been done. If we do streetcar or something, it's like, do we have to do that? Do we need another?

Yeah. We need a new, and there's a couple of them. Downey did that play, which I thought was really good. But is it necessary? No. Well, it's also, I think, for many actors, it's kind of a proving ground at different stages of their life. And if anything, the last 15 years has been this continuous,

like, proving the Josh Brole can work at the top level. And like, you have nothing left to prove. Well, that's a thing. And it's not that I don't feel that I have nothing left to prove, but I like the idea of proving that you can do more. more than one or two good movies in a trajectory of a career. Right. If you have discipline, and if you work with the right people,

and if you think about, you know, it sounds so lame, but like representing the human condition appropriately, if you don't drink the Kool-Aid and become too much of a movie star and start living in a bubble, and you're like, how are you representing the every man when you have five Porsches at home? Right. Like I get two, you need the backup,

why you need five, you know? And why are the color so, why do you need baby blue? You know what I mean? And, you know, if you're rock star, fine, that's like part of the thing. But you're representing something that I find that when you get it right, even something as crazy as weapons, that when you look at how we get, my character, not that I'm going to take it back to weapons again and again and again. You have a guy who's like, you know, typical manual masculinity.

I don't moat with my son. I don't this. I'm a man, man. I have me in construction. I build things. And then you take that thing that's essential to that guy away and watch him start to break down. And he can't control anything. He's trying to control. Why aren't you doing your job. Why do this? Where is my kid? What is you? And then by the end, he breaks. And then he realizes that he, this thing that was essential to him and what it really does mean to him and allows him to just be present and emotional. I mean, there's also an analogy as just an actor of like giving up control. Like you think you have control. You kind of alluded to this earlier. It's like you can control your side of the street, your performance, but the nature of the

medium is you're a piece in the puzzle. That's it. I just wrote that yesterday to my dad. I go, you're a small piece of that alchemy of how something turns out. And if you get together with somebody with real vision, and that's the connection between like Guillermo del Toro back then or Zach Krieger now, or some people who I've tried and it hasn't worked, you know, where you go, you see the movie and you go, huh, really, bummer. you know I wanted that to be better it could have been better it was set up to be better person did as good as they could have at this moment but it didn't it doesn't land like it

does weapons lands yeah I mean to me you can put all the pieces in place you can work with Paul Verhoeven and happen to be in the Paul Verhoeven movie that's not the great Paul Verhoven movie it's just you know exactly that's what I'm saying call me out you know It just is what it is. That's got a dumb luck. No, but it is. Which is probably why we fought during that movie. And I have a lot of respect for Paul Verov and one of the smartest filmmakers I've ever worked with.

I mean, truly one of the smart, you know, he's a mathematician, he's a professor, he was all this stuff. But that fucking movie, dude. And I, by the way, this is a funny. This is Hollow Man for the Record. Hollow Man for the Record. Seven months of that shit. And then, and I just worked with Elizabeth Shoe, that's funny, on Whaleful. but she played my wife

so we're doing that movie and we have these goggles on with this like you know red film on it or whatever to make it look like their x-ray or whatever and then we're watching invisible monkeys pass us and we finish the scene and Kevin looks at me and he goes you got some chops

I was like what the fuck like we're watching invisible monkeys pass us what do you mean chop for What? Based on what? And I didn't say anything. I was like, thanks, man. He believed you were looking at Invisible Monkeys. He bought your...

I was just happy to have the job. And by the way, I know the only reason I got that job because I read for that job and I didn't get it was the fact that everybody else turned it down. Everybody was like, nah. I was like, I'll do it. I'll do it. And I did it.

Do you like a little friction with the director? You worked with Oliver Stone, Verhoeven's like that. Sometimes that can elicit something. I don't, yeah, I'm not, you know, there's other people that are known for it, but I'm not, I just want to know you. If you don't have a solid vision, then I probably will be a little surly.

Not commudgeonly, but just actively surly. Do you know what I mean? Like, you know, Oliver and I almost got into it in the beginning because I wanted to look at the monitor at something just so I could see if it was, if we were on or not. But Oliver and I got along great. Vera Hovin and I fought in a big way.

For good reason, I thought, you know, yelled at a couple extras and I didn't like that. But, you know, I mean, all for stuff that I would talk about now. I really appreciate these people. Do I need friction? No. Like, Deney and I have no friction. Right.

You know, we're super close, but I also know Dini has come on the set, which I appreciate when it gets a little undisciplined, and he'll get angry. Oh, that's interesting. I was going to just say, like, I can't imagine him raising his voice. It's not even him raising his voice. It's like working with Ryan Johnson recently. Another sweet seeming. Super sweet and a guy who you constantly want to impress. I don't know how he does it, but there's this thing where you're like, I'm just slightly

afraid of you. And it's a good thing. Well, he's also someone, I do want to talk about some of the upcoming stuff. So, like, you worked on. Wake Up Dead Man, I think on our last conversation, you talked up Daniel Craig, so I can see why you would want to work on this one. Ryan, who just locks in those scripts so tightly, and then you get to work with this amazing ensemble. Is there enjoying kind of being like one of ten great actors in something like that, and again, being a puzzle piece for Ryan Johnson? Yeah, I mean, yes, and that was one of those no-brainers. Because, you know, if you go, oh, I love the first film, I didn't like the second film, so much. Whatever it is, you know, the scripts are still really good.

It's all there to be had. Glenn I had just worked with on Brothers, and I fell in love with her. Mila, I've always had like a crush on. I don't know anybody who hasn't. Daniel, I've always wanted to work with. Josh Charles, Joshua, sorry, Josh O'Connor, Renner, who have known for, you know, all these people. But it was a great role. And my wife reminded me, you know, she said, do you remember that?

Like a year ago, you said, God, I want to play like a priest or something. And then bang, you know, a year later it manifests. It was a really, really well-written role. That was one of those roles that I wasn't sure if I could pull off. And that was a good feeling. Calling All Book Lovers, the Toronto International Festival of Authors brings you a world of stories all in one place. Discover five days of readings, talks, workshops and more,

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connect with new suppliers, and manage payroll, even when your business is being polled in different directions. To deliver a quality product at a fair price, while paying your people what they're worth too, so your business can stay unfazed. Learn more at SAP.com slash uncertainty. Where are we at on Deney and Dune? I think cameras are up.

I think he's shooting it. texting. Because there was a pinball machine that Stephen Weintraub sent me to all you guys. I know all you guys. You're not all the same person. You're plugged in. I know you are. Yeah. So have you read the script for Dune 3, Dune Messiah, whatever the hell we call this? I have. Very good. It is. It's very good. It's super good. I don't know if you, I haven't read Dune Messiah, the book, but Gurney isn't in that book that much as far as I've read. Yeah, in the movie, too. Oh, no. No, I'm in it, but... You're in it? I am. Okay.

Yeah, I'm not there right now. Okay. I've gotten texts by people who are also in it, who apparently haven't read the script or only read their parts, which I don't understand, because that's why I reached out to Deni? I was like, why are all these people think,

like, hey, are you here yet? Yeah. Have you read the script? Like, are we going to go to the bathhouse? Right. Budapest. I'm like, dude, read the script. Like, do your job.

But this feels like a worthy conclusion to this trilogy? Oh, in a big way. In a big, big way. And I just talked to, you know, one of the heads of Warner Bros. And they're very, very excited and in a visceral way. Okay. It's good. Yeah, I said something like, I heard Dailies are really good.

And he goes, how do you know? Well, good. Because I know. What do you think about him doing bombed? I think it's great, man. Come on. You know, there was talk of that a long time ago when we were doing I think dude too and it was this over here somewhere the fact that he's doing it I think is

really fun I look you know this he's one of my favorite guys he's one of my favorite filmmakers and it's like oh don't ruin it by doing you know you're going to do why would you do three dunes right and why not like that's that's his thing he does him yeah that's his passion yeah so he beats to his own drum and I love anybody who beat to their own drum when I when I spoke to Benicio he seem to have some hope for another Sakaria with you, Emily, I don't know if Deni would be involved or not. Like, I mentioned at some point, I don't know, maybe just to be contrary. I was like, yeah, that's never going to happen. And, and then the producer showed up and Molly and, you know, that's not true, which is fine. And then I just heard recently that it's very, very real.

Okay. So cool. You think with Deni, do we know that? Don't know that. I honestly don't know that. Okay. Yeah. Running Man, we're going to probably talk for that one in a few months. Edgar Wright, digital stylist, locked in. Super cool. Again, another one, I feel like you're connecting, you know,

the Infinity Stones of Directors. Another one, there's Edgar Wright. Yeah. Good experience. Amazing. And Glenn Powell, I love. I mean, really, really appreciate him. Talking about a guy that's, like, focused, knows what, like,

the Tom Cruise approach, like, work with great filmmakers. movie star actor but a smart guy and then you look at that series that he did you're like oh he can act right do you know what I mean yeah so that that's exciting to me there's a new echelon of actors whether it's Glenn whether it's Chalomey whether it's Austin Butler Jacob Allurty a lot of these people that I've worked with who I really really enjoy because it feels like there was a moment there where actors were just only interested in being famous yeah you know and it was really depressing.

And you go back to like me and Benicio and Mark and all that where we were studying with Stella Adler and we were like in it. We were in it. You know, you do a scene just to do it. You get together with people in the weekends and read through plays and you were in it. Yeah.

You know, you were up against each other in a hallway and listening to the this and you were competing with the person, but you were friends with the person and you didn't want them to get it, but you did want them to get it. You know what I mean? All that stuff. So I feel like there's a new echelon of actors that have kind of gone back to this guttural, visceral place.

Well, I love that, I've referenced this a couple times in the recent podcast. I love Shao May's, like, I think it was a SAG accepted speech where he talked about, like, I want to be one of the greats. Like, I aspire, like, there's only wrong to have, like, ambition to be great at what you do. Yeah, it's true. And back then, we all used to downplay the acting and look, what do you do? I'm an actor. like I'm embarrassed, but you still wanted to be the best. You wanted the biggest challenge.

You wanted to do the thing that stuck out. You wanted to be the anomaly. You didn't want to be, you know, a movie star. That was for other people that couldn't act. And then you fell into being a movie star too. Life is strange that way. Harder to say no to James Cameron or being Green Lantern. James Cameron.

Like, I heard Green Lantern. I know it's Kyle Chandler and Paula Patton, who I did a pilot with Antoine Fuqua with Paula Patton, who I love. And I'm super excited to see it. So that's the thing that you were talking about before. Like, can you remove yourself, dissociate? And I can't wait to see it. I can't, because I love Kyle Chandler. I think he's solid.

He's fantastic. The James Cameron thing, that's kind of like the dead. That was before the Deadpool thing, and it was like, I don't want to do this right. I don't want to take a year and a half out and do this. But then Thanos comes up and you go, yes, immediately. Because I'm not part of the system, I'm over here, I'm this anomaly that comes in and I'm purple and I have a ball sack for a chin and like, count me in. Music to my ears.

Count me in. So that was the avatar sequel, to be clear. This isn't way back when. This isn't the first avatar like 15 years ago. Oh, yeah. It was the first avatar? Yeah. Wait, was it the lead?

Was it Sam's role? No. Okay. It was Stephen Lang, who I knew. And I was very happy for him. He's amazing in it. He's amazing. It's perfect.

So it happened exactly like it should have. Got it. I'm a big believer in things happen like they should. Okay. And with two things. I've been doing this with actors, including Benicia, recently. This is cruel, but I'm going to do it for you. When you have a great filmography, I want you to choose.

We're going to do round, Robin style. You're going to choose your best film in your career. So I'm going to pit some against each other. Okay. This is just gut. Okay. So no country versus Dune. What do you choose? No country. Okay. Avengers, Goonies. If I had been in Chalamay's role, maybe I'd say something different. Okay, so we're going to mark that. Avengers or Goonies, what do you choose? Dirk. Dudey's. Okay. Dunn or Sicario. Oh, yeah, I did Dune already. Let's do W. Let's do W or Sicario.

Sicario. Okay. And then finally, milk or flirting with disaster? Milk. I love flirting, though. Now they go up against each other. So it's no country versus Goonies. Oh, I see what's happening?

Yeah, no country versus Goonies. Yeah, no country. Okay. And then we have Sicario versus milk. Fuck. Sicario and now versus milk. No, Sicario. Okay.

And for all the marbles, no country or Sicario, what's it going to be? No country or Sicara, no country. There you have it. There you go. I could have just, I could have just, yeah, we could have circumcended that whole thing. We're going to. I mean, that was a special. Sicario never would have happened had it not been for no country.

True. True. Okay. And then we finally end with the happy, say I confused profoundly random questions, some rapid fire for you, Josh. Dogs or cats? Dogs. What do you collect?

Children. Do you have a favorite video game of all time? Robitron. The Dakota Johnson Memorial Collection, she asked me this. Would you rather have a mouthful of bees or one bee in your butt? A mouthful of bees or one bee in your butt? Yeah. Why do you say it's a weird question?

Can I have to be in my butt right now? A mouthful of bees. Wow, you're in the minority. Most people... Yeah, I don't like anything in my sphincter. I just did Whalefall, which is about four different sphincters, and I was consumed by sphincter talk. Okay, save it for that press store.

We'll get there. What's the wallpaper on? Save it for that. The sphincter talk. Save it for that press store. What's the wallpaper on your phone? The wallpaper. My wife.

Nice. Last actor you were mistaken for? last has it ever happened someone says oh no I know you want this rapid fire but it's like last actor back in the day was there someone you used to always get confused for

yeah Matt Dillon okay yeah but that's a long time ago oh Brad Pitt all the time they go Brad Pitt all the time they go Brad I go, no, it's Josh from no country. But they always think I'm Brad. No, I would have predicted that.

What's the worst note of director has ever given you? Why is that a joke? It's not a joke. It's not a nice joke. No one's laugh. Everyone stop laughing. What was the next question? Worst noted director has ever given you.

It's something like this is, if you get an academy nomination, this will be the scene. What, dude? If anybody tries to get me to do a job and they say this, this is the one get nominated, I'm out. No. And in the spirit of happy, second fuse, an actor who always makes you happy, you see them on the screen, you're instantly in a better mood.

Oh, that's a good question. Emily Blunt. Yeah, great. I would say. Movie that makes you sad, always. Makes me sad, but in a good way. However you want to take it. Oh, 21 grams.

Back to Induritu. Fucking super good movie, man. That's one of those movies that you tell people, it's almost like Dead Man Walking. You go, oh my God, you have to see this movie. And then people call you afterwards, and they go, why did you want me to see that movie? Seen Requiem for a Dream.

That's what I mean. That's what I mean. But that's a different kind of sadness, though. Like, what's a movie that makes you sad that makes you cry? I mean, I think of, like, terms of endearment. I think of, you know, people always talk about the Pixar films. Iron Giant makes me cry. A minute films can do that.

Iron Giant. And a food that makes you confuse Josh Rowland. You don't get it. Why do people eat that? There's a dessert, and I love sugar, but there's a dessert. it's like a jello top but it's not jello it's like and they're always super red okay so it's like a custard and then there's like a a layer of red and i never understood those i don't like them i don't want them in my mouth it's kind of fun because i just did a

thousand mile ride on with harley on harley down old vintage choppers with a bunch of guys and we stopped at this hotel and it turns out that it's the hotel that the shining was based on right up in yosemite yep and they had that dessert did you partake not no that thing away from me none of that dessert in his mouth none of those bees in his butt no off limits stay away from my bottle um I don't know how we ended there but we'll end with this uh weapons is a great movie Zach Krieger is a talent you are as well um this is well we're checking out. It's horror, but it's a lot of other things, too. And yeah, that audience reaction is authentic. I had the same thing in my smaller theater. Congratulations, man. Thanks, buddy.

Thanks for the time. Thank you. And so ends another edition of Happy, Sad, Confused. Remember to review, rate, and subscribe to this show on iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm a big podcast person. I'm Daisy Ridley, and I definitely wasn't pressure to do this by Josh. Simons celebrates freedom of expression with a daily ritual of getting dressed. Fashion's power lies in its endless possibilities. Each garment is an invitation to get creative, be unique, and show the world exactly who you are as you are. Be true, be authentic, be unapologetically you.

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