Happy Sad Confused - Jude Law

Episode Date: January 25, 2015

The amazingly talented actor by the name of Jude Law joins Josh to talk about his new submarine thriller Black Sea, working with Spielberg, how Watchmen changed his life, why the theatre called him back, and the time he was almost Superman. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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and enter Offer Code Happy at checkout to get 10% off. Squarespace, start here, go anywhere. Hey guys, welcome to another edition of Happy Said Confused. I'm Josh Horowitz, your fearless leader in this crazy endeavor I call a weekly podcast. This week's guest, an amazing talented actor by the name of Mr. Jude Law. He's starring in a new movie. You guys should check it out. It's called Black Sea.

It is a submarine thriller, as we talk about early on in this conversation. kind of a weird sub, God, what a pun right there. I didn't even mean to make a sub-genre, but a mini-genre onto itself that is kind of always successful. There have been a lot of great submarine films, and Black Sea is a really good one, directed by Kevin McDonald, it stars Jude Waugh, it's got a great ensemble behind him, but well worth your time. It's out in theaters right now. We cover that, but we also cover a lot of other stuff.

This was really a treat because Jude has crafted an amazing career working with with the likes of, you know, Spielberg and Guy Ritchie and David O. Russell, and we cover all of those filmmakers AI. We talk about Gattaca, one of my favorites. We talk about the time he was almost Superman. I've never heard this story before. It's an amazing story about him actually putting on the Superman costume. He's a big comic book geek. We talk about Watchmen. This was super awesome. And I really enjoyed it. It was great to sit down with Jude. As I said, Black see out in theaters now go check it out but wait till after i mean after you listen to the podcast because i you're here anyway you might as well listen to the podcast first uh so enjoy this

conversation conversation with jude law and as always hit me up on twitter joshua harrowitz and go over to wolfpop dot com and check out all the amazing podcast those guys produce here it is mr jude law It's very blue and white. Do you like what we've done all the place? I do. Reminds me of one of those China plates, T-set.

We heard you like T-sets, so I've been here since early morning. Very thoughtful. Actually, you know what it really reminds me of and this is whether you've seen it or not. Okay. The only titles of Olive Kitteridge. Oh, I haven't watched it yet.

Very good. I've heard. Francis always kills it. Whether you know it or not, we are both capturing video and you're in the middle of a podcast. Do you feel the podcast magic in the air. What does that mean? It means audio.

Like, people can just enjoy this. They're on the treadmill. Like right now? I'll not lie. Oh, I see. But. So it's audio meaning that when you put it out there, yes. You can just download it on a radio. Exactly. Okay. Exactly. It sounds like you're not a podcast consumer yet. I'm not really, no. I'm pretty old. I'll just listen to the radio still. That's okay. I'm proud that I can actually make an email work. We won't put you to the test today. Don't worry. It's all good. It's always good

to see you. Congratulations on this one, man. Thank you. piece of work and I should say in the last couple weeks I've seen both Black Sea and I'm very privileged that I also got to see a spy early on. Oh you did? So I've seen the two sides of Judois of yeah of a swath idiot to desperate man on a mission yeah yeah which speaks well to the kind of choices you make and the breadth of your career. Good, good. So talk to me a little bit about I mean this one I was talking to your director Kevin McDonald and this genre and it is kind of a

a genre. It's a mini weird genre of all its own. But it's, I feel like the success rate actually is remarkably high for submarine films. Like I can't think of a lot of bad submarine films. I think of, you know, obviously Das Boot, come for October. Yeah. And Todd's tall. They're like, I wonder what that's about. How do you judge success? I mean, you mean on quality. I mean, I mean, yeah, I'm thinking quality. I mean, yeah. That's how I judge success too. You know, it's not, it's not always applicable nowadays. I agree. I mean, I mean, I mean, I'm I agree with you, why that is. Who knows?

Because in fact, they're demanding because you've not got an awful lot of gizmos and gadgets and getaways to avoid what is at its heart a piece of drama. Yeah. I mean, that's maybe why they work, but it's also why they're tough to make. You know, you are relying on good characters, intense drama and reaction,

and not a lot else. I mean, I guess you've already got, you're starting at a good place because the setting wins itself to drama. High drama and high stakes. And I guess you know that if you're going on a submarine

to tell a film, something's going to go wrong. It's not like, that was the most successful and smoothest submarine mission we've ever been on, we'll get off and get that to the end of the film, you kind of know it's going to be one of those submarine films where, huh, guess what, something might break. And there's always going to be the

we're going to go, we're going to go. moment, but yeah, I guess at its heart, it reduces itself to just good, honest drama. And if you've got good characters, which I think Dennis Kelly wrote an amazing plethora of interesting characters, I think he also investigated the idea that it is its own universe in a way. So whether you're, you know, we've got Russians, we've got an American, we've got an Aussie, we've got Brits from all around the country, you know, everyone's just a man on a submarine and you've got to work it out

you've got to make it work to make the thing work if you start running out of numbers you can't make the thing work I mean all of that plays in to our particular story I think it's smart I was saying to Kevin also

it's very smart in the way he's casted in that there's some amazing character actors in this that like Scoot and Ben like Killier and all the films they're in but they're only work together

but they're also yeah they're also that's true they're also at that level though where like anyone could die next you know what I mean That's right. Literally, it's like that's a little Indians kind of thing.

They cast it very, very well. Terrific actors, but you're right. You don't quite know where it's going to go next. And also, before we get to them, you know, who and won't die, you've also got actors that will really chew on the meat of a character and bring it to life. So they're a very specific character, or sticks to the people in it. You know, you know kind of who each of them is. And that makes for an exciting cast to watch.

I mean, looking at this film, and since we have some time to talk about sort of where you've come from in terms of your career, I mean, looking at the body of work, it's remarkable in many respects. The thing that jumped out to me most is the directors you've worked with. And I don't know how much of that has happenstance, how much of it is like early on you prioritized, like, I'm just going to gravitate towards the guys that know what they're doing. Because, and I remember early on, like, years ago when I was just like a kid, okay.

looking at Tom Cruise's career and I was marveling like he was smart about that. He worked with Scorsese early on. He worked with Oliver Stone. Has that been something that you've kind of like relied on in the background thinking, okay, like if I'm, if the captain of the ship knows what they're doing, I'm in good hands? Or is it a byproduct of just the material that you liked and it happened to have the right filmmaker attached? Well, the truth is for me, you know, you, film is a really on. unusual career because you kind of no one ever or certainly no one for me takes you on one side and explains the process or how best to play the equation you know it happens and you deal with

it as it comes and you realize in hindsight or I've realized in hindsight an awful lot of it I learned on the hoof you know and I was fortunate also looking back because a couple of films in I was in a film that got a lot of attention and suddenly therefore had the opportunity to choose from some great and very prolific directors. Is that Ripley you're referring to? Yeah. That Ripley was only my like fourth or fifth film and might change my life. Oscar nomination and obviously.

Oscar nomination and also just even before all of that whoohar, there was, you know, you knew people were going to see it because Anthony was very much a talent to reckon with. He'd just won a bunch of recognition and awards for English patient. So when that happens, you realize, I guess, Or, again, looking back, you realize, you know, prolific directors are watching that, and you have the opportunity to say, oh, I'll work with Sam Mendez or I'll work with Steven Spielberg. If that opportunity is not there, then obviously you can't necessarily make those decisions. But to answer your question more on, you know, face on, yeah, you also learn very quickly that

the person running the ship has to really has a major effect. And if that person's got a great track record, if that person really knows what they're they're doing and you would, you'd do it even if there wasn't a script because you kind of know they're going to lead you somewhere great. Even then it's a less of a risk than to work with someone who's, look, this is my first movie. I don't know, you know, you've made three and I haven't made any. I mean, you know that's going to be a challenge and I've done that since and will continue to do it, but it's, it's risky. Because film is always a risk. You don't know. Well, even in the hands of the masters. Like the hands of the masters and with a great script.

Yeah. It's interesting that you mentioned Ripley though, but even before Ripley, I mean, correct me if I'm wrong, there was like that year, essentially, where, like, you know, you had done some theater and gotten some acclaim, obviously. I remember even growing up, like, indiscretions was a big play here in your room. Yeah, right. There was that, and then there was, it seemed like a spade of three films. It was like, what, like, I mean, I had in the Garden of Good and Evil, Gattaca, Wild. And there were, in a weird way, there was a commonality of all of them in that you were kind of a paradigm of beauty in all of them of perfection. And that's kind of a, I don't know, did that strike you at the time?

Did that feel like a weight ever in terms of like, I just want to act, I want to do every kind of performance? It didn't at that time, because each of those characters interested me because I kind of saw a character in them. But weirdly, by the time it got to Ripley, I actually turned Ripley down because I was, I mean, stupid, but I was also, I didn't want to be in a big film

and be the kind of golden boy. And because I was, I just, I was curious about playing. A, I was always curious about the long game. I'm always been about, I want to be in this, I want to be making films when I'm in my 90s. I love the, the longevity of an acting career and the curiosity of mining who you are and what you've got for as long as possible

and seeing that change and morph is really interesting to me. And I thought, gosh, if just cashing in and playing the golden boy with good looks is going to kill that. But, you know, I suppose within, that those roles all had certain quirks and characteristics that meant it wasn't solely, solely that. But having said that, you're right. And that has sometimes been thrown back in my face and it's sometimes something I hear a lot of, which I'm always, maybe I've protested too much or maybe I've tried to go too far the other way at times, but it's always been something

that I've been aware of trying to disprove, I suppose, and therefore turn stuff down and take other stuff rather than cash those chips in. I mean, you look at perdition, you look at this one. I mean, these are roles that you let go of your vanity. You're making yourself unappealing in a conscious effort to serve the character. And that's to your credit that you're like, okay, I have a lot of tools in my kit. A friend of mine said once, is acting is easily divided. There are vain actors and there are unvane actors.

And vain actors aren't often very good. Yeah. You know, it's up for everyone to choose who they think people are. but I've always wanted to be an unvane actor because to me, losing your vanity is page one almost of how to make a part work because you have to go, what does it take? Not, well, I'll do that or I'm not doing that.

You know, if you're being driven by a vanity, you're kind of holding something back. It's all about release. It's all about what does it take to make this real and convincing. And opening yourself up to new experience and not just being in a box. One of those first films I have to mention

because I'm sure you get this every day. It became a classic I don't know how big it was at the time. They don't think it was huge. It was Gattaca. Yeah. Which kind of holds up as like, I mean, I was, you know, into sci-fi and genre and all of that. I know you, yeah, you were, right?

So is that something that in retrospect became brilliant to you? Or when you shot that, were you like, this is special? Well, I read it and made it. I mean, it was like my second film and, or third film. And it's funny, it's interesting looking back at one's own. naivety and innocence, I suppose, because to me, just the fact we made it and I was in it with Uma Thurman and Ethan Hawke and Alan Arkin and DeVito was the producer, you know, I thought it was a slam dunk, massive hit in my book.

And of course, looking back, it actually didn't do a lot of business. But I knew at the time we had made something special and I knew that there was something that was going to last within it. Yeah. up into genre, into comics, into sci-fi. Was that all your bag, like, growing up? Yeah, yeah. I mean, I was kind of a mixed bag.

I just loved movies in general, but I loved science fiction. Particularly literature, actually. I was a big oldest Huxley and Philip K. Dick and Yevgeny Zamayatin, and I read a lot of those, kind of Cold War sci-fi writers. So when AI comes around, that must have been like, oh, my God. I'm in a Steven Spielberg based on... Stanley Kubrick. Did you ever meet Kubrick?

No, sadly not. I mean, he was all set to be the producer, but passed away just a few months before we started. Talk about a film that I think. I know it was divisive at the time and probably still is to this day to a degree. Yeah, I'm still divided on it myself, actually. Well, there are parts I think are genius and the other parts I don't understand. But I also, it was odd working on that film because I only got to read sections. I didn't ever read the whole script.

Until I sat down and watched the film, I didn't know the whole film. It's so haunting, such a, like probably Spielberg's darkest film in many ways. And I feel like, again, even Steven Spielberg has sometimes put in a box at that time, I feel like people, it wasn't what people were expecting, maybe, I don't know. Comic book wise, were you into DC, Marvel, did you have an allegiance growing up? No, I was more just, I followed Alan Moore. I mean, he was just my hero. So I read an awful lot of him.

So you were From Hell Watchmen, obviously I queued outside the local store every week for the new one So I have all As it was coming out I was late to it

But that is one of those That is one of those that blows the mind Of any like young person Like oh my god Comics can be a full lot of life Right And this was one That was a film project

That I know followed you around In terms of it was like Was he because everybody knew You were a big fan Did you ever come close to actually do it. Very. And then ended up not being able to do it because I was contracted to something else.

I was very upset about that. Because I think he did a really good job. I was going to say, what do you say? I'm kind of divided on it myself, because it's such a faithful adaptation to... Very faithful. I always thought there was more in it, though, than one film. And that's the one mistake, because I think he got as much as he could in, and I think the opening titles and how he deals with the whole minute man is brilliant.

But ultimately, I think it could have been drawn out more and fleshed out more. I remember, like, you probably remember this again as a fan. I remember there was talk that Terry Gillian was going to do it as, like, an HBO, like, 12-part thing. And that was, in my brain, that was like, okay, that was going to change the world. Me too. And I was, yeah, it would have been like Chris Walken would have played Adrian. Oh, yes. Olly Reed would have been the Joker.

This was the days, like, when, like, there was, like, this magazine Wizard where they were all these, like, fan speculations about, like, who could be cool in different roles. And now, like, that's all happened, where the best actors are in all these comic book movies. It's so bizarre. Yeah, it is funny, isn't it? It's crazy. Yeah, it's funny. Well, that's, the domination has occurred. We just need to wait it out now where we want it to be.

One more comic book thing, I'm just curious, again, just as a geek. You came close reportedly to being Superman in that Wolfgang Peterson movie. Is that true that you, like, really going to be Superman? No, there was a time, it was before the, not the last reboot, the one before that. Yeah. With Spacey in it. Okay. There was a time before that when Brett Ratner was going to do it.

Oh, okay. Yeah, and it didn't happen in the end. Was that, did you ever get into costume? Did you ever wear the costume? This is a funny story, I think. Okay. I don't know why, I mean, I'm open to it now. I mean, no one's going to ask me to play Superman.

Now I'm too old. But at the time, I was, oh, I really didn't want to. I just sort of thought, I don't want to spend the rest of my life being that guy who played Superman or being Superman. You know, if you ever get caught smoking a fag or, you know, I mean, you're Superman and, you know, you've ruined the lives of all the children around the world. Mommy, why? Superman smoking?

And also, my kids, I had kids, and I thought, God, Daddy's super, I don't know, I couldn't quite write it. But Brett was very keen, and the studio was keen. You've got to come and try this. And then I was in L.A., and I was still saying, no, no, really, really, no. They said, we've got a great new costume. You've got to try the costume.

I said, well, send a costume over, let me have a look. And maybe I have to come over with security because no one's allowed to the costume. And I said, okay, well, I'm going to go and try it on in the bathroom. When I go in the bathroom, put it on, and look in the mirror and suddenly I am Superman

it is an amazing costume and soon my chest pops up and the music comes out and I look and I'm like I'm sick that's it

I've done it I'm Superman sold you just hear in the other room Brett I'm in that was it that was my experience I got it out of your system

I got it out of my system I took it off put in the bag I was like I'm not going to do it that is amazing because I felt like for a minute

I was and then That was enough. I saw myself. No need for the rest of the world to see me. Didn't take a photo? Resisted that urge? No, this is pre those days.

Now that I'd probably rugby tackled me to the floor and beat me out. Did we hear a click in there? No, nothing? Exactly. I'm sure I heard a... Yeah, amazing. Well, you have that forever. And now I have that forever in my mind, too.

So thank you for that. So, I mean, looking... Is it astound you in a way that, like, you've been doing this as long as you have? Like you're now a veteran. Like you were, you know, like, everyone becomes like the new kid and they're hot, they've got that moment. And you've ridden it out in an amazing way where you're still working in fantastic every kind of film. Does this the career you imagined? Does this kind of live up to what you had hoped, what 20 years in or whatever we're in?

I never thought that far ahead. Like I said, I was always curious and inspired by actors who had had sort of 40, 50 year careers. So by those terms, you're still a new guy. Yeah, I guess. I guess I am. Maybe that's why I'm not. I mean, I'm still, I'm just reaching that point where I'm very happy and proud that it has been, you know, as long as it's been. And like you say, I'm still getting jobs and still people finding, you know, and I've become more aware of the ebbs and flows of that, that you ride high times and you have low times, not because you're not working necessarily.

I've been, like I said, very lucky that I have worked, but low times where you, you know, you see films. that you believe in that you put a lot into that you don't get any recognition or, I mean, the industry is cruel like that and you see stuff too where you know something's good and it just happens. I mean, I had a couple of films which I thought were really good pieces of work, not just, not because

I'm in it, but because, you know, it's a good piece of work and both opened during like major snowstorms in New York and everyone was, no one was allowed out, so the opening weekend was just dead and the film died and you think that is an act of God. That's like, that's brutally unfair. And that never gets easier.

I mean, it can't, can it? Because the truth of the matter is, these things do have to have some kind of recognition in financial terms. And if they don't, then you've got to kind of work out a way to make a film that does so that you can make the other stuff

that you love or that you believe in or that you're just curious about doing. And has theater been a respite for you? Or in good times, in West Good Times, you can always kind of feed the soul a little bit? Well, theater was a huge part of my life early on because it's you know

I don't know whether it's the same now but when I a kid growing up in the 70s in South East London you to say I want to be in the movies you were an idiot you were a fantasist whereas working in the theatre was slightly more realistic

and I wanted to act so the theatre became the place where I kind of worked and trained and did all my early work and then when I had a film career I put theatre on hold for many many years just because I was making money and

doing stuff I'd never dreamed of and film, those filmmakers, et cetera, when you don't say no to... Exactly, you kind of realize this is a once in a lifetime, take it. So I went back to theatre just because I think I was starting to lose a little bit of

curiosity and a little bit of faith and a little bit of, you know, sense of what I wanted to get out of it as an actor, as a craftsman. And theater reminds you of that because it's grueling and it's all about you learning how to kind of work yourself as a, not as a machine, but as a kind of morphous, skilled, as a skill.

Well, it gets to the essence of it all. It's like all the bells and whistles are gone, I would think, right? It's just about. Well, it's about being going to do it and repeat doing it and not making repeating boring, but make repeating fresh, and also dealing with big rights. writers. So I decided when I went back to only do big writers. So I did a lot of Shakespeare, I did a lot of Eugene O'Neill, and John Ford and people like that. Time for a quick break from the interview, guys, to talk about something very important. I'm not

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is, I mean, have you always had a good instinct in terms of what's going to make a good film? Are you, do you look for a different? No? No, I mean, I think a lot more of that is, I've realized it's about what the director's going to do and what the director wants to do with it. So you're, if you read a script that you're, you have questions about, but there

is a top-notch filmmaker attached. I'll usually go for it. That's exciting still. Yeah. Because invariably they can make something out of it or they maybe know, they see something in it, you don't. Exactly. I mean, what amazes me more and more, though, is how I seem to not be able to choose ones that make loads and loads of money. Well, here's a segue, because a couple that did were Sherlock, which I had a chance to spend some time with you and Robert on set a couple

times and talk about a force of nature. My God, that man. Robert. Oh, my God. Well, you are, too. But, like, no, we all can't compare it to what... No, he is extraordinary. I mean, an insane man in the best possible way. I was thinking of him as magical. He's like Peter Pan. Yeah.

You know? I don't think he'll ever change. I think at 70, he'll still, and his dad is still probably, it sounds like he's still kind of got that interesting spirit to him. I think you're right. Is that something, I know you're asked about this all the time. I heard an interview with you, which sounded amazing, that you guys still kind of had these brainstorm sessions about another Sherlock.

You had an idea for a time travel movie? Who told you that? I heard this. Really? I heard this. Is that true or not, Jude? Well, I still think it's a good idea. I don't want to say, yeah, it's true, and then it kind of blow the idea out of the water.

But I guess, if I'm honest, I think Robert and Guy both kind of went, what? But I thought that was, I can't remember, I thought that was in top secret. I'm amazed someone's leaked that. Yeah, I thought, sod it combined, like, HG Wells and Sherlock Holmes. Yeah. And then that's right, and down he topped it by going, yeah, and the time travel machine is like as big as a, You're like, it's something you eat. And you come and I want to always refer to you there.

I don't know. You eat it and you go, oh my God, I'm in 2024. Well, he's had some experience with maybe substances that have done stuff to him. Maybe he's seen 2024. There you go, exactly. It does remind me of that. You probably saw this. Like, I did time after time growing up.

You remember that one? That was a cool way in. With the Ripper. Yeah, the Ripper. That's right. Malcolm McDowell? Malcolm McDowell, David Warner. David Warner.

Terrified. David Warner was terrified. As he was as death, time bandits. Yeah, yeah. Time bandits. Amazing. Yeah. You worked briefly with Gilliam, right?

Was that somebody that, that seems like someone that... Well, that's a weird story, really, and a sad story, obviously because it involves the death of Heath. But I was involved, I was going to play that part. Yeah. And Terry had gone off and done all these drawings of me playing that part. And then schedules changed and the financing changed and it got shelled and I went off and did something else. Couldn't join in. Terry wanted Heath, so Heath took over, or not even took over, started making the film.

And shot the film, Heath passed away, and then the only way forward was, I think people know, as Terry came up with this idea that whenever the character went into this other world, which was the only section they hadn't shot, he could change it to different people. So I wanted to do a part because I wanted to help Terry and I wanted to finish the film in honor of Heath. and I wanted to contribute and then Colin and Johnny did the same. But the section that I got to do was the section that he had already drawn me doing

way back. So when I suddenly got there on that day, he was like, look at these drawing boards. It was me on the ladder. Just act out my little cartoon. Isn't that weird? It's bizarre. So it was a strange kind of completion of the circle.

As a film fan, who were or are kind of like those icons for you from a filmmaking standpoint? As a child, Terry Gilliam had a huge effect on me. Brazil was the first time I remember seeing a film that was clearly adult and complex and nightmarish, but also wonderfully funny and entertaining. I can't remember how old I was. I can't have been much into my teens. I was probably about 12 or 13. I feel you came out like 85 or something, so yeah. Yeah, so I was 13. And it just blew me away. Obviously, Spilberg, I mean, I don't know anyone under sort of 45, 50, didn't grow up, having him having a massive effect from Jaws. But close encounters for me was the one that, because again, I didn't understand it as a kid. I saw it and it just freaked me out.

And I remember like great bits, but then, like, going back later, and the whole domestic drama at the beginning is so real and tragic. And it's like a film about obsession. I remember, like, I was a kid watching that and just seeing, like, all those scenes of him, We're throwing clay at it and then her leaving and you're like What the family leave and then you never know what happens to the family I mean that's what he just goes. Yeah yeah yeah brilliant brilliant filmmaking. I was also a huge Charlie Chaplin family okay right up to like well I still am but you know I was kind of

obsessed by him for many many years so those are three but recently recently I just I'm I'm very into Paul Thomas Anderson and I desperately want to work with him Please talk about a guy That's just like on another level We were actually just talking in the other room About Magnolia of all things Which I consider like

Amazing film A masterpiece But also how he keeps shifting gears Because I mean all of them kind of work As a As a legacy But The last few have been really mind-blowing

What did you make of Inherent Vice? Have you seen it yet? Yeah, I loved Inherent Vice Crazy It is. It made me laugh But I'm a great fan also of his idea that plot is not always necessary. Right. You know, sometimes it can be about

feeling and following one's nose. It is. It's a mood film, right? And it's a film I know. Like, in another filmmaker, I might discount it after one viewing and say, okay, that's just impenetrable. I can't. It was fun, but I don't know what it is, but knowing him, I know I'll go back to it and it will just get more and more rich on each viewing. I mean, I think of another interesting filmmaker you've worked with, like, David or Russell, who's someone that's willing to just like go

out there. But I feel I work with David in a real sort of a bridge moment of his life. Yes. He was going through, I think, quite a lot of personal stuff and I think the film

was an expression of a huge amount of the crises and the personal sort of evolution and introspection and inspection that he was going through. And he was very intense at that time. I've heard he calmed a lot, but he was scary at times.

He really scared me, but just scary and how he wanted to work. Well, there was that infamous video that came out with him and Lily, right? Yeah, that wasn't a true reflection, though, of the intensity, I mean, because that kind of shit happens all the time. And out of context, everyone kind of goes, oh, you know, he's badly behaved. But everyone was giving as good as they got. It's not that. It's not that he was a bully.

Believe me, we all threw it right back at David. But it was more, because it was more of the freedom. It was more like anything goes. And, you know, and who's got a better idea than I have? So the thing was like trying to catch, you know, Quicksilver. It was like it was morphing all over the place. And since then, I think he's really honed what he wants to say. He's almost done three on the trot that just knocked it out of the park.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. When you look at like the landscape for a film now and a film like Black Sea, which frankly, it's kind of a miracle of film like that even exists in this time where, like, we were talking franchises and comic book movies. and it feels like it's either $150 million movie or it's, I don't even know what, it's a Netflix series, like there's no middle ground anymore. Although you look at a lot of the films

that have been nominated for Best Picture this year and there's small films in there, you know, I think what slightly sets ours apart Black Sea and why it's not perhaps, you know, doesn't necessarily fit into either of those categories because like you say, there's $150 million, there's the Netflix or there's the award film, you know, is that it's very, very genre-heavy.

Exactly. And I think what's glorious that Kevin's done is he's gone for it, you know, unabashed, and he's made it gritty and you can smell it, you know. And the fact that it's rich in honesty with the Russians are Russians. You know, there's no sort of backing away. Yeah, and your accent is in fine form. Whose idea was that in terms of it was the character always Scottish on the page? Kevin and I, no, they were all quite stripped on the page in a way, but I went, and the two sort of little things I wanted to add, at the time I was in prep for Henry V, which I went on to play on stage after the film.

So this idea of a man leading the disparate view to glory was very heavy in my mind. And the idea of rallying men by impressing upon them their own great skills, you know, was what I was sort of studying in the Shakespeare text. So I kind of wanted Dennis to draw on that more and more. And I think he added a couple of the speeches because of that. And then I also had this sense that, look, some mariners don't often sound like me. Right. Or not in a sort of heroic sense.

And Kevin is Scottish. And I just felt that if we could find someone from the coast of the British Isles, or a place rather on the coast of the British Isles, and give Robinson a sense of this sort of, it's in St. Grittier and Granite City is what they call Aberdeen. So I thought Aberdeen. Also, Aberdeen saw terrible unemployment in the 70s. And so there's this slight tragedy to Robinson.

And I like the idea that, you know, his father was maybe a docker who had lost his job. And so you see this, you know, your father figure kind of coming down to, you know, desperate situations. And then you find yourself coming down to desperate situations. And it's this sense that how do I get out of this rut? How does my family get out of this rut? Right. Just motivates him a little more. It's interesting because, like, I was going to ask you about kind of like processed now versus, like, when you're starting out.

And it sounds like you still like or enjoy or need to have kind of like, the pinnings, the architecture, to kind of build from the ground up. I do it more and more now. Really? Yeah, I look back on some of the stuff. Yeah, it was instinct before. And curiosity and pure, just sort of motivated by kind of exuberance, I suppose, youthful exuberance.

And now I'm like, God, I can't believe I got away with doing so little work. I mean, I did a lot of work. But now I love the work. I love really constructing a whole past. Is there an actor you've worked opposite that you've, gleaned the most from you think in terms of like just like that's the way I want to carry myself in terms of how I lead

a set if I'm the leading man or how I approach the work I'm never very good at set. Paul Newman was an amazing man to be around because he was just such a gentleman and I don't think I've ever worked with anyone who had quite the

history or the historical presence as he and yet he was the most humble generous and civil and well-mannered human being. Philip Seymour Hoffman was incredible because he fought for truth at all costs. And it was never about nicety.

It was never about, you know, shortcut. It was about how do we make this honest? And every time he tried to make something honest, it usually made the other guy look even better too. Talk about a testament to, like, a guy just by sheer force of will as like a character actor that became was a leading man at times too. and just the most unlikely body.

Like, frankly, people, that's not the type that we put necessarily as the leading guy. But if you think about it, you know, if all you want is honesty, then, you know, the leads on paper on a film are about, you know, noble men making, you know, or women indeed, but talking about Philip, you know, noble men or making great decisions

or tough decisions and seeing them through, you know, it doesn't matter what that person looks like. If it's carried out with honesty and truth, you'll follow them. And that's why Philip was so able to cross that line and suddenly become a leading man because he was able to convey convincingly. Does the approach, is there anything that clicks in your brain differently

when you know your number one on the call sheet when you are, you're the lead? Definitely, and I think that's a great responsibility that should be taken. And if, you know, Anthony Minghella was very good at putting that on people. He was like, this is your party. So, you know, anyone who turns up in their number 36, 37, that's their special day and you've got to be responsible. Set the bar high, but also welcome them, bring them in, make sure they know how it's run and what's expected.

of them and you know that means also you don't suffer fools gladly if you turn up you're not ready off the set you know you got to turn up and know your chops and jump is that is that a pet like what's a pet peeve on set is it if it's just your coast I don't like people being rude yeah you know because the thing I love about film is the collaboration of all these incredible skill sets I've always thought you know if you put a film crew on Desert Island they would build your house they'd wire it they'd light it they'd cook for you, you know, they'd make you look good.

I mean, they'd film it and, you know, they'd have people to tell you stories afterwards. I mean, it would be, it's an amazing motley crew. Is that where you're happiest? I think, obviously, you've got kids, so I would think family makes you happy, but like... I'm pretty happy on a film set. Yeah, I love film sets. What are you working on next? What's the next gig?

I am about to embark on Night to the Round Table with Guy Ritchie directing. Oh, so this is happening now? Yeah. Because I know it was kind of in flux, whether it was going to have... You were a little cagey for a while. I've heard interviews. I was Cajie. Well, it wasn't happening.

I can't say, yeah, well, it's not happening. So, yes, it's happening. So who are you playing in that one? I'm only going to tell you I'm playing a guy called King Vortigone. Okay. And is this, I mean, it has to be knowing it's Guy. It's a different take on what is a familiar tale. Yeah, it's Guy's take.

I can't wait. This is exciting. Yeah, that'll be fun. And that's a big, crazy, interesting world to, with a unique voice like Guy at the helm. It's got to be exciting. Yeah, it's very exciting. I'm excited to work with him again.

He runs from a man. who works on now big movies he runs a very happy yeah to use a phrase referred to black sea very runs a very happy boat nice nice and to wrap it up I know you have to run because it's a fun Junkett day congratulations you're in the middle of a junket I am just curious because I did get a chance to see spy oh yeah yeah so talk to me a little bit one of the few I'm lucky that way it's a fun movie have you seen it yet I have yeah it's pretty crazy just to see the cast assembled and these disparate people I keep saying

It's the weirdest cast. It's bizarre. Hang on, 50 cent, Miranda Hart. Jason Statham. Great. He's hysterical at it. Was that, I mean, do you get nervous in that context? You've done comedy before, obviously. But this is the closest you're going to do to, like,

Bond, I guess, versus, I don't know what. Comedy's not like, I mean, I don't want to give too much away. You know, it was quite clear what I had to carry out. And other than that, it wasn't like I had to match Melissa, who is the queen, you know, and reigning kind of champion at that quick-witted, clearly spontaneous kind of comedy. It wasn't like that wasn't my, that wasn't on the list. So I kind of knew what I had to add to the piece

and it was just a thrill to sit back and watch how Paul works, how Melissa works, obviously. Yeah, it works. It's a crazy one. I think that's going to be another big one for you guys. Congratulations on this one. As I said, it's a testament to these latest two films I've seen the kind of career you've crafted and I appreciate just chatting a little bit about the crazy

career. Good stuff, man. Thanks as always. Thank you. Thanks. Thanks, too. Appreciate it, man. That's the show, guys. I'm Josh Harowitz. This has been happy, say I confused. Hope you've enjoyed the show. Hit me up on Twitter. Joshua Harowitz. Go over to Wolfpop.com. Check out all the amazing shows over there. And most importantly, check back in next week

for another edition of Happy Sadd. Confused? Wolf Pop. Pop. Pop. Pop. Pop. Pop. Pop. Pop. Pop. Pop. Pop. Pop. Wolf Pop is part of Midroll Media. Executive produced by Adam Sacks, Matt Gourley, and Paul Shear. I'm Anthony Devaney. And I'm his twin brother, James.

We host Raiders of the Lost Podcast, the Ultimate Movie Podcast, and we are ecstatic to break down late summer and early fall releases. We have Leonardo DiCaprio leading a revolution in one battle after another, Timothy Salome, playing power ping pong in Marty Supreme. Let's not forget Emma Stone and Jorgos' Borgonia. Dwayne Johnson, he's coming for that Oscar in The Smashing Machine, Spike Lee and Denzel teaming up again, plus Daniel DeLuis's return from retirement.

There will be plenty of blockbusters to chat about too. Tron Aries looks exceptional, plus Mortal Kombat too, and Edgar writes the running man starring Glenn Powell. Search for Raiders of the Lost Podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and YouTube.