Happy Sad Confused - Juliette Lewis

Episode Date: May 16, 2022

Juliette Lewis has more than survived, she has thrived! Three decades after her Oscar nominated role in CAPE FEAR, the 90s icon, continues to push and search for truth in her work all the way up to and including the much loved new series, YELLOWJACKETS! There's no one like Juliette and this conversation like many of her performances is a wild one. Don't forget to check out the Happy Sad Confused patreon here! We've got exclusive episodes of GAME NIGHT, video versions of the podcast, and more! For all of your media headlines remember to subscribe to The Wakeup newsletter here! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Today on Happy, Sad, Confused, Character, Actor, Star of Yellow Jackets, musician, badass, 90s icon, Juliette Lewis. Hey, guys, I'm Josh Horowitz. Welcome to another edition of Happy, Sad, Confused. Yes, the one and only Juliet Lewis on the pod today. First time guest, surprisingly, considering her body of work, certainly a lot to talk about with Juliet, someone whose films are inextricably linked with my own coming of age as a film lover in the 90s. Movies like Cape Fear, for which she was Oscar nominated, natural-born killers, collaborations with Quentin Tarantino

and Robert Rodriguez and Woody Allen. She just worked with them all in a very short span of time, and she's still kicking, and she's still kicking it really well. with the likes of Christina Ritchie and Melanie Linsky in the hit show Yellow Jackets. This was a show that, I don't know about you, it kind of felt like it snuck up on me. I was hearing, maybe I heard about its release with this interesting ensemble, an interesting concept, but I didn't catch on at first, and then by the end of the season, all these fan theories were floating around all these think pieces.

People were just buzzing about Yellow Jackets, excuse the pun, and I eventually caught up with it, and I loved it. It's a great show. If you haven't caught it, check it out. It's streaming on a number of different services. If you just Google Yellow Jackets, you'll find it. It's a series that's ongoing. They're going to shoot the next season, I think, relatively soon.

And it basically is two split time periods set in the 90s with some high school, primarily female cast who are in this horrible accident, this horrible plane crash, suffer this trauma. And then we jump to present day to see the present day. versions of some of these athletes, student athletes. And like I said, they're inhabited by some of our greatest actors working today, including Melanie Linsky and Juliet and Christina Ritchie. And it's a really fascinating show. It's a mix of different genres, a little bit horror, a little bit of mystery, and it's our comedy, and it really worked on me, and I am not

alone in that. So this conversation certainly talks about that, but of course we hit up on all of the major touchstones in her career. And she is, Juliet's a survivor. She's someone that's been through it, been through the ups and downs, and just has a really, she's a unique spirit. I mean, you know, it's not surprising if you've seen her work. And I think it comes through in this conversation, really enjoyed chatting with her for the podcast.

So, yes, that's the main event. Other things to say, well, if you've been following me on social media, and you probably do if you listen to the podcast, you probably do. know it's been a busy time. Most notably, I was in San Diego for the world premiere of Top Gun Maverick. I don't even know where to begin. I'll keep it short, but just to say, it was a hell of a day. We, by we, I mean MTV, hosted the premiere on an aircraft carrier, the USS Midway, in San Diego, and I was the host alongside Simone Boyce and Domitipongo. I was, I had this crazy position like right up front where Tom Cruise

arrived on a helicopter on, there's no, there's no proper way to say that without sounding insane. Tom Cruise arrived via helicopter on the USS Midway and then dramatically walked to my platform as the music soared from Top Gun Maverick. And that was a moment. In a career that I've had where I've had a lot of pretty crazy, fun, cool moments, that was a, that's top 10, maybe even top five. Not to mention, it was in support of a movie that I actually love. Like, sometimes you host premieres or you do, you cover events, and for movies that in your heart of hearts don't love, and you kind of have to find what you love about them in there and get the enthusiasm going.

That was not hard on this one. I mean, you, again, if you follow me on social media, you might be sick of it. I just love this movie. But thankfully, I'm not alone. Everybody loves Top Gun Maverick. It's opening very soon, so you'll all be able to see what we're talking about, but it just works. It's just emotional and action-packed and just like is a perfect kind of summer blockbuster that sadly we don't get a lot of anymore.

So one of the happiest times I've spent in a theater in recent memory was watching Top Gun Maverick, and one of the happiest times working, my weird job, was hosting the premiere for Top Gun Maverick. and talking to Tom and seeing Miles Teller, who has a very key role in the film and who I go way back with, and to see Glenn Howell, who I love and just has a star making performance in this, and he's been kicking around for a few years and to see him get an opportunity, really exciting. So I don't know what else to say, except that was a bananas experience, and you can actually watch the live stream if you missed it on MTV News's YouTube page and see just what went into it. And certainly, I was, you know, just one part of a giant machine.

You can imagine the apparatus that goes into hosting a live red carpet on an aircraft carrier with a helicopter coming with Tom Cruise. So major props to the MTV team that supported me and made it all happen. And to Paramount for putting on an amazing event and to Tom Cruise for being the professional maniac that he is and doing premieres like nobody else. Yeah, these kind of silly events are. partially why I do what I do. It's kind of the silly part of what I do, but I have to admit, I love it. And it seemed like everybody had a great time. So mission accomplished, as they would say,

in Top Gun. I'm not sure what else to mention. I do want to mention the newsletter, the wake-up, which I mentioned a couple times previously on the podcast. It's run by my buddy, Sean McNulty. If you guys haven't checked it out, I highly recommend you do. It's totally free. It's a daily newsletter. to your email, to your inbox, and it's a great way to start the day and just get a great digest of all the entertainment and business news headlines in like, you know, it's like a three-minute read and you're like up to speed on everything going on in film and TV and streaming. You can go to the wakeup.substack.com. Subscribe to it. Highly recommend it. That link is also in the show notes, but want to remind you guys that this is a cool, free newsletter to stay up

on all the machinations going on in the biz as my voice drops a couple octaves as I sound like I've been smoking for 30 years when in fact I've never smoked a cigarette in my life. It's called acting. Anyway, all right, let's get onto the main event. As I said, this is the one and only Juliette Lewis. You know her, you love her.

I'm trying to think if there are any spoilers or anything in here, not really. Broadstrokes on yellow jackets are in this, but also it's a significant kind kind of career chat and who doesn't want to hear fun stories about the making of Cape Fear and Natural Born Killers. I do. That's why I do this podcast. Here's me and Juliet Lewis. I mean, there's no pomp and circumstance. I'm just going to officially welcome Juliet Lewis eight years too late to the podcast. You've been doing this eight years. I don't know how

it's taken us this long, but I appreciate you taking the time out in the middle of work. Thanks for doing this today. Absolutely. But we, we, so this is your podcast, but you and I have done interviews before. We have. I, I've talked through my own brain and, and my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my copious photo archives. Actually, you'll find this maybe funny or, or, or crazy. I look through my old photos, Julia, and I found this is Toronto on a rooftop 2010, must have been for conviction, maybe, I'm thinking. Yep, that seems about right. But I think we also talked for August, the sage. So, but you know how it is.

These junkets and these like six minute interviews, you're like, when do I actually? Well, no, I did, I didn't remember you and you and your name and like that. Yeah, so I didn't not know. I'll take it. I'll take it. I more than remember your name. Your work is intrinsically part. It's part of my film loving DNA.

and the fact that Yellow Jackets give us a chance to catch up in this way, I'm grateful for. So first, let's just talk like where you're at. You were telling me before. You're in L.A. You're in the middle shooting. Is this the immigrant TV series that you're into right now? What are you doing? Yeah, I think they're calling it untitled Chippendales for the moment, unless you've got a confirmation.

I got nothing. I got that. Okay. Yes, I am in Los Angeles filming a TV show with a really spectacular cast but this is sort of becoming the trend

of filming with people I really love and admire so that's kind of cool more than cool that's the goal to work with people that not only make boost your art but also are just fun to be around And it seems like, I mean, Yellow Jackets.

So Yellow Jackets, like, to me, I don't know, from your vantage point, from my vantage point, it kind of like came out of nowhere. It felt like it was a slow burn, which is unusual in this day and age where like something, there's all the pomp and circumstance. And then it explodes from day one and like everyone's talking about it. But like Yellow Jackets was the rare kind of like momentum where like at first it launched. And then by not maybe not many people were talking, but by the end of the season, it felt like. like back in the days of lost there were like theories and pandemonium what from your vantage point what did the experience of unleashing yellow jackets out into the world feel like yeah um see that's this is all new to me so i needed people around me to go yeah this is unusual julia um one being my

manager, my trustee manager, no. He was like, it's a, I don't know the analogy, but you're on a hit TV show. It's a, or the striking goal, like it's a very, it's not often, you know, it's what everybody strives for. Of course, I'm not, I'm, I'm not to sound weird. I'm just always, mine is always like does it you know connect with people um do they respond to the story and your work and all that the idea of hits and numbers and yes you have a second season is the other stuff out of my control right yeah but yeah go on well i was going to say is your internal barometer at this point any better or worse i feel like you never know is is the general sense i get from actors of like it can feel great on set. It can look great on paper. You can be in this business for 70

years and you still don't know. Or do you? I don't know. Do you feel like you have a better sense of it at this point in your career of what's going to what's going to resonate and what's going to work? No. Because it's always a zeitgeist thing. Is that the correct thing? When when a certain combination of things hit at a particular time that the audience sort of anoints is the thing like you are you know this is great you're we love we love it and we want more um a fan this this show struck a chord of like what you're saying where where people are invested in a way um that of course the writers and show creators everyone hopes for i have learned And now with experience and never to have expectations, all I can control is the quality

of the experience and striving. You know, I'm real hard on myself or my standards because I'm striving for not just good, but greatness and transcendence. that's that's it i'm i'm i'm always looking for truth in scenes and that gives you a feeling of uh transcendence well that that that i get it because that that that's what i was going to say that's within your control you can only strive for that right that's within your power to strive for that but like all the rest of it is so out of it's out of your hands and that must be a lesson learned relatively early on in anybody's career that like if i'm going to be saying

and healthy and not like beat myself up about this i just got to concentrate on what i do on my side of the street and let the rest of it fall where may yeah um for real and for reals and also um it's funny i i was uh it's hard tv is difficult in that you you are committing potentially years of your life off of a single script sometimes two if you're lucky and a pitch meeting yeah it's a lot of trust you're putting in something yeah yeah a lot of trust and within that show creators and writers are also dealing with notes and also allowing the thing to become what it's going to become so this show is wild because it was one of the greatest pilot scripts I'd ever read because the characters were all so distinct and the story.

It was written so well, just really mysterious and unexpected turns. And then a year, the pandemic hit, and we all just sat. And then I showed up and Natalie goes home. So my character who I kind of took the job of like she's a grifter, you never know who she is, she's a chameleon. You know, they're all bonded by trauma and they all have different survival skills. And the thing that hooked me was the sense of mystery about Natalie when we meet her at the rehab. And then when we shot the series, it's that person goes home. And they kind of deconstruct and implode.

So that was all a surprise journey for me and really interesting. But I had a lot of fear because I never want to be pigeonholed. I think of myself, True Blue, a character actor. Like I like characters. And so what's exciting about this is it's a long, what do you were saying, slow burn, slow rollout. The second season will be a Natalie totally different than the first season. Right.

Do you find that you are, sounds like it's in your nature to kind of like fight for your character to like to, to, you know, to show up and give your two cents as opposed to like, I mean, you're a collaborator. You're not there just to read the words. Oh, 100%. But collaborator is the key word here. Um, because it's funny, people have, sorry, I'm going to have a drink of water. Oh, good.

Mm. People have preconceived notions. Um, you know, I guess I give a, I've given off an air of a strong individual, individualism or something like this. And, or, and that's, that's awesome. But on a set, I like to be a problem solver. I very much want to manifest and honor the show creators ideas and vision. However, I also know writers in a writer's room, everyone's under pressure, right? So sometimes they'll give a lot of attention to this storyline.

And so I do think it is my job to, to honor their original, you know, just remind them of intention of this particular character. But I'm rarely stuck in my ways, although sometimes I suppose I could be, but, but, oh, what I want to say is this, this, this group of people, they hired me to do what I do. right you know to because i've been on shows where they want the familiar they want they're like no no no julia can you be more without saying common can you be more uh predictable and i'm always trying to take the scene and make it in a way that you've never seen it before um but but of course do that honestly and uh with a sense of spontaneity totally and if you'll indulge me since we have some time And it drives as one of the things I want to talk about with your background is you mentioned, like, you think of yourself as a character actor. And I look back at your upbringing and your dad, who was a great actor, he was like the consummate character actor.

Like that was, that was him. Is that, is that you think part in your DNA, just seeing what your dad did in the variety that he was able to bring to the screen? 1,000% yes and I'm smiling because I naturally love and adore my dad or maybe not naturally I know some people don't feel that way about their parents

yeah you know it's funny because I didn't come to this business through magazine culture or hype right I it was very grounded and real were long hours. You never have the same experience twice. One of the most

or cute thing that happened was when my dad and I worked together, we only worked together twice and not really very much in the same scenes. But the second movie we did, no one really saw it, it was a European director. Okay, I won't bore you with the premise. But the point is, I sat with my dad on set and I noticed we're so similar. We're so similar and I got it. I got it all for my dad.

You know, we talked to the van driver and lighting technicians. You know, if you're not bottled up doing something intense where you have to keep to yourself, but there's a sense of equality and there's no hierarchies. What I mean is there's a, I know, to me, there's a nobility in being a real workman, like just a real actor team. We're just the front of the thing, but we all work together. Was it odd for him and I imagine you

where like relatively early on then, before you will become this kind of like jack of all trades as your career progresses, like you were a movie star. Like you became a movie star relatively early in your career. Was that, you make the face? But like maybe that's still like, feels weird to even hear PTSD. Did it not suit you? Did it not sit well with your bones to have

that label? No, I'll tell you something weird about me is that when I was super young, oh, do you know, I was just thinking the other day, this label, I was the second youngest person to ever receive an Oscar nomination. Is that right? That's crazy. Probably not Anna Paquin. I think people have surpassed it now. You're definitely in that. Yeah. Yeah. I was going to say you were definitely in that list. I mean, that's odd for any human being, let alone what were you probably 18 or something? Yeah, I think it was 18. But no, I remember them saying that because who had done it first was O'Neill's daughter. Tatum O'Neill. Yeah. Tatum O'Neill. Yeah. Tatum. Tatum O'Neill, she was the first, so I was going to say when I would read articles and they would make me other, you know, it's a whole othering that occurs, and it would be glowing. It would be, you know, back in the day when they wrote, like, she, she saunters in and with her glasses, with her cheekbones, or whatever, they would wax poetic about it, interview that the actor sat down and were like, so let's sell the movie.

But when I read it, I would, I would cry because I didn't recognize myself. Oh, my God, I could get teary-eyed right now, but because it was setting me apart from. And I already had felt that way. So how I dealt with that was even more connection to the people who have felt like other outsiders. and that's now 30 years later has been the trend that I like to give a voice to the strange or the uncommon or disenfranchised or, you know, but not to say like I would love to play an aristocrat and, you know, all these things, but yeah, so that's interesting. When you mentioned the, yeah, kind of the strange and the outsider, yeah, I read like, I don't know

You can never trust what you read, obviously, on the interwebs. But like I said, like one of the early things before Cape Fear was that you were up for Beetlejuice, for instance. And I could see you as like a Tim Burton muse at the time. Like, I could feel like, it feels like Juliet Lewis should be on that short list for Tim. Do you have any recollection of almost working with him or no? Yeah, that's right. So, well, I mean, I think there was a handful of girls that, you know, we were all up for

the same things. And it was Winona and myself, I don't remember. I'm sure a lot of other girls there are there, but I had blonde hair. And so once you, and I, one of the things that I enjoy of being a character person is we, I can, I like to think that I can completely change visually. So anyway, when I was a kid and I had blonde hair, full other ball of wax. Oh, shit, did it? I got you back.

Don't worry. But I became visually something entirely different. Yeah. So anyway, I didn't, and who knows, maybe my interview meeting, audition sucked and, well, Winona clearly, it was awesome. And she got the part. Worked out for everybody. Yeah, exactly.

Which brings us, so I don't know if you're sick at this point of talking about Cape Fear. I will never tire of it because it's kind of a perfect movie in my estimation. It's kind of like the movie that like proves that like there's an alternate. universe where Scorsese could have just made like 25 thrillers and would have been as the greatest like just genre filmmaker ever and he just decided to make a little bit of everything instead of one thing. But it's such an effective piece of work and like you obviously more than hold your own against the greatest actors on the planet, namely Mr. De Niro. I mean the infamous I quote unquote seduction scene which has been talked about to death.

You're being so respectful because you wanted to say the thumb scene, which is what it was called, but whatever, go on. Well, but here's my question. From what I've read about it, and I've read a lot and I've heard a lot, I wonder, like, today if it would have happened in the same way because it was partially improvised from what I gather. And, like, from what I gather, you were kind of giving a heads up that Bob was going to do something. But I wonder, like, I don't know, in these times, like, would it have to be, like, mapped out even more specifically? And is that spontaneity gone? No, just to be fair, no, no, there was, you know, consent and respect. And what I want to say, it was written that he was going to kiss her, me, the character.

And they thought it was written very much the way or a version of what the film they were remade, the old Cape Fear, which is he's the scary bad guy. He's lecherous, you know, kisses her and she's terrified, and that's the scene. Because, you know, they're genuses and we're all wanting, everyone wants to play nuanced, specific, a kind of realism, well, that toes the line. And so I was right in there wanting to be realistic as a young person. I was a young person, but I was actually older than what I was playing in, even in my young experience and in age.

Well, that's a funny thing I was going to say is like, I feel like as much credit as you got, you almost deserve more credit because people were thinking like, oh, she's just kind of playing she's she's being but like the life you were living you were dating an older guy you were out of the house you were like you were not a 16 year old entre do well you're so sweet the credit i got that's over time because initially it was how did scorsese get this performance where did scorsese find this girl and it's just like the girl chisel it out of grad it just somehow yeah yeah um but so what um oh gosh there's so many things to say oh you were talking about improvisation there was a few things and it is funny when you talk about when you're saying

when people hire me you know do i fight for my character this not it's i'm actually so i it's what i've learned was from working and being given opportunities like that with people I come to the table with being a true collaborator or having a De Niro and Scorsese, you listen to your ideas or give you freedom or, you know, encourage your intuitiveness. And so there are some jobs where they don't want, you want, they might want a robot. And so, and then other people want to hire you for what you give. But the improv in that scene, it wasn't the physicality because they were very respectful in that way. It was a radical idea that's rarely done.

Now it's done more in TV to save time, but two cameras. This was, it never happens in film where you get to see the reactions and the performance truly as it's occurring. Right. That's super rare. So that was exciting. it's what's on the screen is mostly one and two takes that's all we did crazy yeah that's you use the word radical that gives me the perfect segue to a movie that blew my brain apart when I saw which was natural born killers and it feels like it's like just punk movie making at its finest

like i mean jfk kind of set the bar i remember with olberstone and i was the right age for that and to see him mix film stock and just like go fuck it i'm just going to like push it i'm just going to like push the envelope and then natural born killers is like jfk on steroids and it's just madness did is the is the is the making of that movie as reflective of what i saw did it feel like a mad fever dream to make that movie or did it feel more buttoned down this is so funny i didn't fully know we were um going over my career which i love i just wish i ate uh some more protein for my brain no i actually you got it all the time um let's see see i in hindsight you know with age midlife you treasure or or not but i treasure these uh creative endeavors

there's nothing like what what filming that's word killers was and so every time i see woody we're just like hey you know we've shared uh it's like two soldiers who went to boot camp together or you know served a term or whatever you call in the war we feel like this camaraderie there's a deep camaraderie um so what do i want to say what was radical about that film i know people think of the stuff of like oh there must be mushrooms and blah blah blah and it's like no maybe someone took mushrooms on their own time but it wasn't wasn't on the i didn't see this on the set right um that's not what gave us our performance what what did it was Oliver wanting every, every molecule of your imagination, of your creativity.

And he demanded that. And so I was given a space where I could contribute some real wild ideas, you know, all that stuff, all the physicality. I knew she was, I did want to, you know, be quite primal. And so she's like a little banshee to me. She's like a little, there's a, is it called GIF online, that GIF? There's a little thing where it has me going like this in the, in the cafe. I mean, those are all things that I just added some flavor to the killer personality, who's quite manic.

Well, it is also a revolutionary character, Mallory. I mean, like, it's one thing to have that, like, in a dude, but, like, for a young woman with your physicality, it was just so incongruous to what we were used to. And that's partially what made it, like, so striking and so shocking and disturbing. I know. It's so strange.

It's a crazy. It is strange because it's been done. You know, we see women who do fight sequences, And but again, that was Oliver going, oh, yeah, go work with Benny the Jet, one of the great fighters, who has trained on many movies. He's like, go do your thing and then you present the fight. And I remember working with Benny, we talked about doing a left jab. I don't know if you read this.

I talked about it in another article, but there's so many stories I've not talked a lot about. but we worked real hard on creating an entire choreographed fight sequence that was different than, again, it's just sort of like the guy flirts with her and she roundhouses him and then he's down. Right. And I'm little, so it's never going to be about brawn. It's about the element of surprise. And then finding your death hits or like wherever your weakest points are. You know, there's a whole psychology that I was learning about. You obviously then Tarantino, of course, wrote the script infamously.

It wasn't his version of the script that he necessarily loved. But then, of course, from Dust Till Dawn, you collaborate with him as an actor and as a writer again. Was there a time when you and I could see Tarantino just loving you? Like you seem like made for Quentin for his dialogue. We loved each other so much as pals. And, yeah, it's pretty, I, it's, I'm a little sad because I have, I've been wanting, I should work with him as, him as a director. Yeah.

And we haven't. So, but yes, we met socially at one of these events in the 90s. And then that's how it became pals. And that's how he then called me up and was like, hey, I love this new director that I believe in who did El Mariachi, Robert Rodriguez, check him out. Hey, what are you

doing this summer? Do you want to join us for a silly, fun, good time in the desert? And I was like, yeah, let me check this out. And yeah, that could be fun. And because at that point, I felt like I was sort of past the quote-unquote

daughter role. I was 22. But I still, but I still looked so young, so I could do that. But all you have to say is Tarantino and Harvey Kitell. Come on. And then Mr. Clooney was yet, yet to be a, he was a newly discovered potential leading man. That was the movie. That was the movie that showed like, oh, this guy's a fucking movie star. Like, he's good on ER. He's a movie star. Yes. Do you have fondness? And I apologize if this does feel like this is your life. But I mean, oh, I love it. I, I, don't get to talk about the real stuff often enough, actually. It's kind of cool. I mean,

I may write a book, but not what you expect, naturally. You need to, do you have the fondness that I have for Strange Days? Strange Days from Catherine Bigelow. It's an interesting role for you in that, like, it is the rare intersection of your different lives to a degree, obviously. You get to sing in it and you get to kind of like lean into that persona a bit. But Bigelow, such like a badass filmmaker. I mean, what was that experience? Like what jumps to mind when you think of it? She's radical.

I know, I'm just going to use that term. Let's do it. What do I mean by this in that she's fiercely committed, knowledgeable about what it is she's seeing and executing those visions in a very meticulous, way and an epic way because that that film was quite epic a big scale um just in the story alone and the crowd scenes and that there's music um what was it like oh it was grueling it was a we had a vampire schedule it was nights night shoots night shoots for over a month yeah i don't think there's

any daylight in that movie, as I recall? Very little. There was some in the flashbacks or whatever at the beach. Oh, but the key thing that it was, was, and again, when your midlife, you look in hindsight, you're like, oh, that was the moment I was reminded that I am a singer because I had wanted to do that when I was young. It was just my truest self, so it was like deep in the closet. I was a closeted live performer and musician.

And so at that time, I would never have been ready to step into my performer shoes. I was still quite an introvert and around audiences. I wouldn't know how to lead an audience yet. So it took me 10 years to actually get on the stage. But it was instrumental in introducing me to a kind of aspect of a creative mirrored reflection

which is P.J. Harvey. Right. The songs you sing in the film, right? Yes. Yeah. She's, we were going to do rid of me in the movie and then the more I got into P.J. Harvey, I then brought to Catherine hardly wait off of PJ's four-track demo album.

And then Catherine liked that song. too, so we did that. Does, I mean, so segueing into the musical aspect of your life, which is a significant one, like, does anything approach the high that you feel when you're on a stage, anything on the acting side ever approach what you feel when you're in your element commanding an audience? I mean, is it analogous at all? Yeah, it is. I, geez, I wish I had my readers on.

We could just change this whole thing because you're a blur. Also, I keep moving because I'm renting a house. And you know how people are like, look at your kitchen. What? Red linoleum? I'm ready to. No judgments, people. Okay, this is not.

This was a house that would accept two dogs, mind you. Oh, you might have heard my dog just eating and drinking behind me. I'm glad I've got a fellow dog lover. Okay, good. Okay, so analogous. Oh, so yeah. So I guess the question in an acting gig, can you ever feel? that high. Anything ever approach what you feel on a stage?

Can anything approach me standing on a crowd of 5,000 at Lollapalooza in 2007? No. That was the first time I was like, oh, I can stand on hands. I didn't know, you know, all an Iggy Pop. That's like everybody kept comparing me to Iggy Pop. But again, I have some savant. qualities were like, I didn't know, Iggy, there's a famous, I don't know, you know, but Detroit, he stood on the audience's hands. He walked, you know. And so to answer your question, I am actually writing a script. I'm 15 pages away from being done.

We've done the rewrites that will pose this question to, it's loosely, it's a fictionalized version of some things I've gone through, but it does pose that existential question that was looming in the first year of the pandemic that said, it was a headline said, live music may never happen again or something, some horrible doom and gloom that would crush a person as a spirit. it. So my point is, there is one word that I always look for even in acting that would be probably throughout any creative mediums. And it is the feeling that I had when working with De Niro. Any time we work together is a feeling of transcendence. Yes. And it goes beyond

time and space, this place. And it's quite magical. Is it in the moment or is it after the fact? Go on. Is it in the moment or after the fact? Is it in a scene or is it like, oh, that just happened and now I'm on another plane? It's in the scene. It's a place you strive for that you can't intellectualize or contrive. It's just an organic thing that occurs by truly being in the zone with another partner.

like that yeah yeah it's interesting music i just want to say yeah music to me is a is a holy place it's it's spiritual and any i'm sure you've had the feeling any of the best shows you've ever been to you're like wow that was like going to church yeah like arcade fire or um rolling stones or so to be on the other side and to leave and have everyone in unison uh express joy vigor, celebration, even rage, angst. All of that is a really impactful, profound feeling. Yeah, the word you said before transcendence, I'm sure. You know, I always, you know, like I've talked to so many actors that have had, like, you know, kind of the roller coaster that comes with any career. And I really admire the ones that, like, ride the waves. And it's like, it's a testament. You must,

like, take satisfaction, like, where you're at. Like, you are now officially a veteran. You've been doing this a while and you've ridden the different waves and like in a weird way like i don't know if you felt this at certain points in your career you were competing against yourself like you had so much success early on did it ever feel like oh fuck like i'm like i'm always like living in the shadow of juliet at 18 this is so funny because i was like this is why josh were with No, he's the guy. No, this is intelligent. This is smart.

This is smart. Not a lot of people know that artists often, I don't know, my niece, she's so funny. She is an artist. She hates this word. And I was like, what about a creative? She's like, I hate it even more. But whatever, at creative person, you're often in competition with your earlier, your earliest things because it's what

if it puts you on the map. So I think about someone like Prince, how, you know, you can go through all different dimensions of revolt because if you're smart, you're trying to evolve and not repeat yourself. Other people are perfectly happy repeating themselves and that's the career they want.

But Prince, didn't he at some point, And he's like, I'm not going to play, actually, the hits, the way you like them. So that's his choice. He's like, I'm going to do the jazz funk rendition, the 10-minute version of Little Ride Provet, or whatever. But yeah, yeah, yeah. So here, what I want on that is that you find work. I feel like now I'm finally coming into a place and with things like yellow jazz. or August Osage County was really special where I've reached midlife.

I was like, aha, this is, these are, there's a whole other animal of nuance and challenge that I wouldn't, I wouldn't have been able to play as a, as a youngster, young person. And they're not expecting you to kind of dig into the same bag of tricks, right? Like that, like they know, like everyone knows like Julia can do a certain kind of a thing. And when they empower you to not have to go there, that must feel like, oh, okay, like I'm more than a two-trick pony. I've got other shades. Well, you're saying the thing because I sometimes when your ego,

the funny thing, again, about being an artist. No, a creative person, is your ego, this is the questions I posed in midlife. What served you in your youth sometimes can hinder you in your, midlife or how do you reimagine it because you still want that for lack of a better phrase a healthy joyful fuck you spirit yeah yeah um but you know when you're a kid um so wait what did i want to say what was the question

we're lost in our own transcendent thoughts it's okay um no no i i did really want to say something on the well we all you're talking about not not necessarily being pigeonholed for certain kinds of like the one or two trick pony thing right yes I was saying egos because sometimes I will see in the material like aha you come to me because you're saying I'm going to

do a southern blah blah or whatever I'm like don't you know don't insult my intelligence but I'll just say no to things like that or there was a time period after I came on the scene which I guess is a compliment

where there was a Juliette Lewis type. Oh, I'm sure, I'm sure. In the script, which is hilarious. And I'm like, how dare you? You don't know my type, but. The concern is when Juliette Lewis gets beaten out for the Juliette Lewis type role. You don't want to lose your own type role. Like, at least give me the offer.

At least get me the opportunity to say no. I don't know. I don't know. Yeah, yeah, I've seen some people. I'm like, I think I recognize that. But yeah, I'm just wanting to do, you know, I would want to play like a jazz singer or, you know, I don't know, that's just in my wheelhouse. I wanted to develop this thing, a story about Anita O'Day. But anyway, yeah, you're now the the opportunities are more, they're more pronounced and colorful, especially with the brilliance of writers today that are shining.

and that's exciting. Well, I'll come full circle and cut you loose on this. It's just Yellow Jackets, which I assume you haven't shot anything for season two yet. Are you getting the answers you want answered? Because the fans have a lot of questions they want answer. Do you know much about season two? Are you excited to see where the path lies for your character? Because you were left in a bit of a precarious position, to say the least.

Yeah, what's your prediction? What when you see Natalie, because we, know I'm going to be in the second season. What are you thinking? What's she going to be like? Where is she? This is above my pay grade. These are the good questions.

I expect smarter people than me to come up with the answers. Exactly. Same. And thank God they do. I just deal with the energy. No, but no, I had this really fun conversation with Ashley and Lyle. Sorry, Bart. I keep using the last name because I have a friend,

Lyle Workman, who's a musician. So Ashley and Bart, we had a great conversation about the energy of Natalie, of when you meet someone or you find her, she's scraping the bottom and she's about to take herself out, right? That was the end of that journey. And then you get kidnapped, a violent act interrupts that. that thing. So I'm not going to, oh my God, because I could ruin it.

What I'm trying to say is we had a meeting in the minds where we both or we all had seen this same point of reference about a documentary that wasn't current. And I was like, oh, I just watched this documentary, blah, blah, blah. And they're like, we were talking about that a week ago too. But anyway. On the same page. that's a good sign yeah okay well she'll be at a different place than then before so i'm only of course thinking of the character but as far as all those clues exact i'm such a simpleton with with thriller

and all the tapestry of serialized writing i'm the person who's like what happened to so and so why did they pick up the phone or what was that book yeah i'm with you you would think me in my business watching as much as I do. I would pick up more. I'm like reading the Wikipedia entry as I'm watching this brilliant piece of writing. I'm like, why is it not just getting into my brain? But thankfully, you guys, look, it's a rare when you get the marriage of like the right cast with the right creators and like the ensemble that you guys have, both the younger cast and Melanie and Christina. I mean, icons all around you. You guys are amazing together. Like I said, I'm honestly really glad it gave us a chance to catch up in it in a somewhat substantive way, I hope. And, and yeah. It was substantive. Well, we try around here. I appreciate it. Thank you for giving me some respect of my, my history, and I appreciate that a lot.

This business beats you up a lot. So it's nice to be recognized. Of course. In a nice way. Give this damn way to your respect. Juliette Lewis, Yellow Jackets, Season 2, can't come soon enough. Thanks again for the time today. This was a lot of fun.

Thank you so much. Have a great. weekend. Oh, ends another edition of happy, sad, confused. Remember to review, rate, and subscribe to this show on iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm a big podcast person. I'm Daisy Ridley, and I definitely wasn't pressure to do this by Josh.

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