Happy Sad Confused - Kate Winslet

Episode Date: December 16, 2022

It's been 25 years since Kate Winslet starred in a James Cameron film and well, that one worked out pretty well. Now the TITANIC star is back with AVATAR: THE WAY OF WATER. Kate joins Josh on this, her first HAPPY SAD CONFUSED visit(!) to chat about her experiences on both films, not to mention now working with her daughter in a new TV project, plus a chat about the future of MARE OF EASTTOWN. To watch episodes of Happy Sad Confused, subscribe to Josh's youtube channel here! Check out the Happy Sad Confused patreon here! We've got discount codes to live events, merch, early access, exclusive episodes of GAME NIGHT, video versions of the podcast, and more! Come see Josh tape LIVE Happy Sad Confused conversations in New York City! December 19th with Daniel Craig! Tickets available here! For all of your media headlines remember to subscribe to The Wakeup newsletter here! Thanks to our sponsors! ATHLETIC GREENS: athleticgreens.com/happysad EXCLUSIVE NordVPN Deal ➼ https://nordvpn.com/happysad Try it risk-free now with a 30-day money-back guarantee! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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after 25 years with Avatar, The Way of Water. Hey, guys, I'm Josh Harrow. It's welcome to another edition of Happy, Sad, Confused. First-time guests on the show today, and one of my favorite actors, truly one of the people, when people ask me all the time, who have you never had on the show, Kate Winslet always near the top of the list. Well, it happened, guys. I ventured off to London for the Avatar Way of Water premiere. It did not disappoint. The movie is now out in theaters,

raking in all the dough, earning all the well-deserved praise. And one of the nice byproducts of being out there was taping this conversation with Kate. Um, you know, I, I've talked over, over the years about the circumstances of these conversations. Sometimes they're over Zoom. Sometimes they're in person. Um, oftentimes they have to be done in less than ideal circumstances. And this one was in the middle of a gigantic, it doesn't get any bigger than a worldwide global junket. So I'm so appreciative to Kate and her folks for making this happen, squeezing it into the schedule. Um, and it did not disappoint. How can you not love it in what Kate Winslet has done in a 25-plus-year career.

Of course, Titanic was not her first film. Heavenly Creatures was teaming with Peter Jackson, but she's an Oscar winner. She is transitioned from back and forth from television to film and back again. TV work like Mildjard Pierce, Mayor of East Town, winning the Oscar for the Reader, Revolutionary Road.

I don't need to list all the credits. She is truly one of our greats. And she's fantastic again in this film, a Kate one's like you've never seen before, because it's a performance capture role. It's a pivotal figure, a figure that seemingly will recur in future Avatar films, and yes, there will be future Avatar films. But yeah, this conversation was fantastic. We chat a lot about her, of course, collaboration with James Cameron, because he is such a key figure in her life, 1997. That's when Titanic came and

just dominated like no movie I'd ever experienced, certainly. And it changed her life in great ways. There were some negative aspects to it. And part of what I love about Kate is she is frank about all of it. She's a straight shooter. She's very funny, self-deprecating and talented. These are all the ingredients that make a great, happy, sad, confused guest. So I think you guys are really, really going to dig this one. Let's see. Other things to mention, what else can I mentioned. Well, a couple other things. I had a chance to chat with one of the stars of one of my other favorite films this year. You should check out Sadie Sink in The Whale. The Whale is a tough watch, but it is truly one of my favorite movies of the year from Darren Aronofsky, starring

Brendan Fraser. And Sadie, of course, is just doing amazing things between Stranger Things and her film work. I had a chance to chat with her for MTV. Go check that out on MTV News's YouTube page. Other things to mention, well, oh, I know, I should mention one more thing. We have one more ginormous event, guys. By the time you listen to this, frankly, the tickets might have been sold out, but there may be a couple left. If you're in New York City, Monday, December 19th, Daniel Craig, I think this is going to be the last live event of Happy Say Confused this year.

It's been just a phenomenal year of live events that was kind of new uncharted territory for the podcast. So we're going out with a bang, Daniel Craig, we're going to screen Glass Onion and have a big old career conversation. So if you're in New York City, check out the link in the show notes. There might be a couple tickets left, and it's going to sell out. It's going to be an amazing night. All right, I guess that's about it. I mean, Avatar's on the brain for me and for everybody.

So let's just dig right into it. Don't wait. There are really no spoilers in this conversation. This is just me talking to one of our greats. please enjoy me and the one and only Kate Winslet. Kate, whether you know it or not, you've been on the bucket list for a while for this podcast. We've been doing it for about eight years.

So thank you for the time today. Oh, thank you. That's really lovely. I've been having a bit of a Kate Winslet-a-thon the last few days. In the span of 72 hours, I've seen Avatar, the Wave Water. I am Ruth and the holiday on the plane over. I have, you contain multitudes, Kate. That's actually a fairly good spread and balance, I'd say.

Yeah. Like, if you could have, like, you know, an appetizer, an entree and a dessert of my career. Which is which? Which is which? I guess holidays are the dessert. It's got to be. Yes. And, wait.

Maybe the entree. Well, the entree, I am rude. It seems weird to say either of them is like an amuse-boosh. It's tricky. It's a appetizer. They're both. feasts in their own way. Yes, they are.

How would you schedule the Kate Winslet movie athon? I guess that is. I mean, it must strike you as you get to have these kind of conversations where you have an opportunity to look back to see the breadth of the work. It must please you. You've been doing this for 30 years on the big screen almost. It's kind of crazy.

I know. It is a 30-year career. And actually, I keep having moments where at this time in my life where I realize, oh, I'm one of those older actors now. who I used to listen to and hear their stories when I was younger and they would say, oh, do you remember back in, you know, 1970 or whatever? And we did that show with blah, blah, blah. And I am now doing that.

And actually, I worked with Josh O'Connor recently, who's gorgeous, I absolutely adore him, such a wonderful actor. And he said to me, he said, so who were your contemporaries, Kate, when you were starting out? And I thought, God, wow, wow. Josh O'Connor is asking me something that really does feel like it's before his time. And it is before his time.

And yeah, I suppose I just feel, I just feel honestly filled with so much gratitude that not only do I get to do the thing that I love, but I get to do so many different versions of it. Yes. And I feel proudest of that. You know, often people say to me, so what's your ultimate goal? Or what's a role you'd love to play? Or what's left, you know, you seem to have done it all.

And I feel like I'm, you know, I'm right in the weeds of the best part now where I'm getting to experience playing all these different roles across kind of loads of different mediums. And it's just amazing. That, to me, is the ultimate goal, is that I can just float around. It's amazing. Yeah, I mean, yeah, just looking at recent work, I mean, from Mayor of Easttown to Performance Capture and Avatar,

it's like, couldn't be more different and stuff you've never done in your career before. And that must keep it so exciting. Well, let's start, okay, we're going to dive to Avatar, obviously, which is why I'm in London visiting with you. But I do want to mention I am Ruth, which in the state, sadly, we don't have a release date yet, but I'm sure it's coming sometime soon. I hope so.

It must be, I mean, talk about full circle moments. You're working with your daughter here. It's essentially almost like a two-hander, like you and your daughter. She, by my math, was probably filmed this around the time when you were filming at that age, Titanic, which is just mind-boggling. But you know what's really crazy? at the age that she was when we shot this, it was only like nine months ago,

so she was 21, like 21 and a half. And actually, I was just done shooting Titanic at that age and had been nominated for Best Supporting Actress for Sense and Sensibility at that point, which is crazy. So I'm constantly saying to young actors, that's like the ridiculous version.

Like don't aspire to that. That's just like a freak, random, fortunate thing that happened to me a long, long time ago. It's like every poor director I talk to that always compares themselves to, like, Orson Welles, who did Citizen Kane when he's 25. It's like, freak of nature in the greatest possible way. You, all do respect, freak of nature in the best possible way. No, I just, but I have had some very fortunate moments, you know, and of course, people say, you know, you make your own luck, and I've certainly worked incredibly hard and continue to, just because I don't want to ever be shit. It's a good motivator.

But if you take your foot off the gas, then things start to go a little wiggly. And so I just refuse to ever do that. But, no, I look at my daughter and, you know, I do see, well, for a start, there are moments where, you know, she does things with her face. And I'm like, that's a me thing. And I see her in certain angles and I'm like, wow, you know, you do see, she looks very different to me. She is her own person. She's completely different. She's much shorter than me.

Physically, we're constructed in totally different ways. And emotionally, obviously, she's got her own full-on thing going on. But sometimes I'm like, oh, God, my face was like that in Sense and Sensibility or my face was like that in Titanic. So it's really fun to kind of spot those things. But she's a very, very powerful young actor, and I'm enormously proud of her. And it was so impressive watching what she did every day in I Am Ruth because not only are we improvising the entire thing, it's no scripted dialogue

we made it all up on the day as we were going along. So that takes a huge amount of courage, but she had to be very vulnerable and really just let go of any inhibition and put herself out there. And it's really hard as a young actor to be laid so bare like that when you've only had three years worth of experience

acting in front of a camera. Not to mention she knows she's going to be compared to you. She is in the same frame as you. Like, I mean, that's... Yeah, I guess, I mean, it's sort of inevitable, I suppose, that people will do that, which is kind of a little niggly, because she does have her own... It's unfair in every respect, of course, but people are people. She truly, yeah, she truly has her own style.

I mean, I have to say, she is very different to me as a young actor. She has a sort of, there's a naturalism to her work that I feel I honestly never had when I was younger. It took me years to figure out how to just be very real on camera. I feel like I'm still figuring that out. But she sort of has that quite instinctively. And I think a lot of young actors of her generation are served quite well with that style. In a way, I think that society has shifted and changed so much since I was younger, that we want to hear what younger actors have to say.

Yes, authenticity is valued over anything else. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It really is. Talk about Full Circle moments. So this press tour gives me the opportunity to talk about this 25-plus-year collaboration with James Cameron on and off. And, of course, it's been some time since Titanic.

But Titanic, I mean, you and I both lived through it in different respects, but I remember as a teenager, like it was, as you well know, a phenomenon beyond phenomenon. It's hard to contextualize for people today what it was. What's been your relationship in the subsequent years? Like, have there been times where you've been like, I don't want to talk about Titanic today? Like, I don't need...

I appreciate it. I love it. It did so much for me. But, like, I need a year off. I need a week off. I need a day off from Titanic. You know, I have loads of moments off from Titanic. Genuinely, I do.

I think, you know, it isn't this sort of thumping great presence in my life on a daily basis. Yeah. Not at all. And actually, if anything, I think now that I have moved through that time and come out the other side and have been able to prove to people that there are lots of other things that I could do.

And also making choices that were, you know, quite deliberate for a few years in terms of going against what was expected of me, I think. You know, I was never a very good famous person. I wasn't ready to be a famous person. And somehow I was so fortunate because I instinctively knew that at the time. resisted it. It was really scary. You know, it was very scary to become that famous, that quickly

all of a sudden. And truly, my life went from being able to just roam around, make up free, go and buy, you know, a pint of milk in the newspaper and a loaf of bread from across the road, to suddenly that was an abnormal activity because I was literally surrounded by press, just walking across the street. And I was so young, you know, so experiencing life as an independent adult, you know, learning who I was as an actor. I mean, my God, I still had so much to learn. I was not trained. It's a common misconception about people. People think that I had all this years of heavy, you know, I don't know, important British training. I left school at 16 and got lucky. So I have learned on the job and continue to learn on the job. So actually, when I did

Titanic, I just walked out of that feeling kind of overwhelmed and curious about, you know, what would come next and actually what did come next was not what I expected at all it's quite overwhelming but now I think being a young famous person is almost impossible to navigate well just think about me you've been very frank and it's kind of great to hear I think especially for young people to hear how you were treated in the wake of Titanic and the bullying and the way you were described in the press but yes add in the layer of social media could you imagine like how difficult it would have been for you to deal with all that I could I

I just absolutely couldn't imagine it. I mean, it's a whole other world, and I'm so lucky I don't have social media. I literally, it's not a case of having to switch it off because I never even switched it on. Probably the smartest decision you've ever made. Yeah, yeah. So I just don't know about any of that.

I just don't have to hear any of it. And I think as a young actor, when every actor is insecure, I don't know a single actor, no matter how old they are, how many years they've been doing it, I don't know one single actor who says, yes, I like myself. I'm impressed by the things I do, and this is me. Every single actor is like, oh, God, was I good enough?

Did I, was like, I should I have done that differently? Or maybe, oh, God, I wish I could do it again. It's just how we are. We're kind of just hotwired to think we're not very good half the time. Well, when you're rejected in auditions 90% of the time, that doesn't help reinforce. Well, that's it. I mean, so much of rejection. So much of acting is rejection, especially when you're young and starting out.

And that's the hard part is having the resilience to push through and, you know, decide whether you love it enough to keep. keep getting the knockbacks and just keep going forward. It's really hard. Do you remember vividly still the audition process? I know you've talked about before, like, you never ironically auditioned with Leo, you did with McConaughey.

Do you remember, because there's so many names that have been talked about. Like, do you remember, like, was Christian Bale? Was Ethan Hawke? Do you remember other people that you? Christian and Ethan, no. Matthew McConaughey, yeah. And there was another actor who, I have to say,

is not that well known now. I'm afraid I can't remember that's okay that's okay isn't that terrible but yeah I and were you were you aware of who you were up against because there was talk of Gwyneth and Claire Daines etc. I wasn't really aware but this it was a little bit naughty actually I do remember this and it was such a lesson my god so this other actor that I did read with whose name I'm afraid I really can't remember maybe I'm gonna throw one out we can always cut it oh Jeremy Sisto was he also because I heard he was one of the ones that was pretty close.

It might have been him. It might have been him. Okay. But I can't recall, to be honest. So it's a really long time ago. Yeah. But I remember he, whoever it was, very much wanted to let me know that he had been doing this auditioning thing the whole of the day before and absolutely threw out a couple

of names of people who he had been auditioning with. Like a psychological thing? Was he trying? He was completely trying to fuck me up. And I just went, mm-hmm. I was like, mm-hmm, yeah, mm-hmm. And I don't know, I just took from that, wow, I'll never do that to another actor. I will never, ever do that to another actor.

What is the point? But I also thought, you're not going to get this part. I could just tell. He was just way too pleased with himself. And Jim Cameron, I could sense was not a person who was going to be very tolerant of any young actor who had any degree of arrogance. I could tell that about Jim. He's a really sincere person. And he was looking for actors

who weren't vain, weren't going to do mind games, and who were going to be absolutely in it and immersed, literally. And, yeah, I do remember the process. And I had been flown to L.A. I had been flown to L.A. to do proper screen test stuff with costumes and everything.

And I was filming Hamlet at the time. with Kenneth Branagh and what was amazing about it was that the entire cast of Hamlet. So I'm talking Julie Christie, Derek Jacoby, ridiculous, like Jack Lemmon, Charlton Heston. I mean it was absurd, not to mention Ken of course, but they were all in on this thing, like oh God Kate's up for this really big film and it's going to be so exciting. So I had all of them literally going, bye darling, good luck, you've got this, you can do it. And honestly the day I got the phone call, this is a crazy story, I've hardly ever told this, but this is honestly We were filming at Sheperton Studios, which is a little ways out of central London, and I was living in a flat share in North London at the time.

So the journey is hefty each way, depending on traffic. Julie Christie said to me, listen, I found a little bed and breakfast round the corner, and I think they've got a spare room. So if you wanted to kind of buddy up with me, or I can ask the people who own it if there's a space for you. On the occasion that I received the phone call telling me I had got the part in Titanic, I was in a bedroom in this bed and breakfast next door to Julie Christy. I received the phone call in the morning at 5am or something, and I banged on the door, banged on through the wall, Julie! Julie, wake up, I got the part, I got the fucking part.

Oh God, darling! And then she threw open the door and there's the two of us standing in. in our pajamas, me 19 years old with Julie Christie. She's the first person I told that I'd gotten the part. I mean, if I ever did do a memoir one day, which I don't think I would actually, but that's gotta go in, like that has to, that's gotta go in there somewhere.

A pinch me moment, amazing. Oh my God. When you think of, and I promise, it's not gonna be the entire Titanic talk, but you see how I'm like, I'm so old now, I'm able to tell the stories about the days of my acting youth. Isn't it hilarious?

Jim gets a bad rap with, I feel like, his dialogue. He's a very, like, earnest hard on his sleeve filmmaker, and that's kind of why the movies are worth. They're emotional. Like, people talk about the technology and the action and the drama. You cry at James Cameron movies. We're going to talk about this one. I cried at this one.

I've cried at Titanic every time I've seen it. I'm curious, though, from an acting perspective, like on Titanic, there's some dialogue in there that. tough that would be tougher an actor to sell like you know I can't even remember but like I mean well I mean I don't know just like I mean obviously for Leo it's like I'm king of the world but then for you it's like you know to say like I'm flying in a way that like feels like it's from your heart and it's not I don't know cheesy beyond belief listen dude my my motto has always been commit or it's shit right

you know like truly I'm that's you know I should copyright that phrase but so I It's really funny. I mean, honestly, I was just so excited to get the role. Yeah. It was incredible. And it wasn't just that I thought, oh, wow, this is it. I didn't think that at all. I never thought, oh, this is it, this is my big break.

A hundred percent, I did not think that. I thought, God, great opportunity, first time playing an American. Well, this could mean that people might see that I can be a little bit versatile. Okay, just can't, you know, I mustn't blow it. I never even thought about the dialogue. You know, as actors, it's your job. It's your job to make it work. It really is, and you are there to play a part.

You're there to really give your role. And that was the main thrust for me. But one thing I will say that is absolutely true of Jim's writing, he creates remarkable female roles. You know, not just remarkable female roles who are strong and central to the plot, but in the case of Avatar, these women, they are leaders. They lead with their heart, with integrity. They have the power to protect and create change.

You know, they are physically not just robust, but resilient and agile and capable. And he is a man, genuinely, and I'm not saying this to kind of dispel any shit that's been said about myself and Jim in the past. But this is really the truth. He has enormous admiration for the ability that women have to plow on, keep going. And to achieve more than perhaps even we ourselves think, that we're capable of. And so it's good to be, I think, in a situation

where you're working with a director who not just expect that you'll give it a go, but knows that you will be able to pull off that thing. It's kind of amazingly empowering. Yeah, and the company, the people he keeps coming back to is very telling, and it's like once you're in, you're in. And I feel like there's a mutual respect thing, even with all the stuff that's been said about,

yes, he's mellowed a bit over the years and he was who he was, and he is who he is. But it comes from a good place, it seems. It does. It comes from a place of wanting to do incredible work. And when I think about Titanic, really, my God, I mean, there was so much pressure on him. And at some point, you know, you hear rumors, of course. There was no internet in those days. And I think there was barely even email, quite honestly.

But I remember hearing that it was getting so expensive. There was some merger with another studio at some point. And we all remember, I remember we were all going, oh, God, this is getting a bit. Like, you know, guys, we're in this, like, full-on, like, problem film. Oh, there was, like, Titanic Watch. I remember, like Entertainment Weekly, it was like, every month was like, where is it now? How much is it going to bomb?

See, we would not have ever known any of that. We were just in it. And sure, it was really tough. You know, it was so hard. The water was really cold. There was so much of it. It would have cost, you know, a fortune to heat that amount of water. Plus, there are things I will tell you about the way that water behaves in huge volumes

that are unpredictable. So we were all scared. understandably there's only so much safety you can put in place before you dump however many tons of water into a flooding corridor or a dining room you just don't have any way of knowing what it's really gonna do so you know it's at the end of the day kind of isn't anyone's fault if you get slammed in the side by a floating table we didn't know the table was gonna decide to do that right it's not controllable yeah yeah and it's not just the actors you know it's the

it's the crew it's the camera guys who are standing around wearing wetsuits dry suits, you know, lugging pieces of equipment, trying not to get water on the lens. I mean, we were all in it together. I mean, that's the one thing I will say that I treasure from that experience and that it taught me a huge amount about what it is to be part of a company. And that to me is something that I care about a lot. I care about hierarchy in terms of not allowing that to have any space or place. It's very, very important for morale.

It's very important for younger actors to understand that it just, just doesn't get you anywhere when you behave like that. I often hear stories of younger actors complaining about silly things like catering and wanting to have a separate chef to other people. And you think, what for? I take my own food to work now, because I hate to have to ask people to get me things.

So I'm just like, you know what, I'll just take all my own stuff and I can just eat when I need to, you know, have a bathroom break when I need to, and not be, you know, expecting people to do things. And I can just concentrate on doing the good job or at least focusing on hopefully remembering lines and doing all the things I'm supposed to do. You have to stay at it, you know.

You can't just rest on your laurels and, you know, hope that people are going to go, oh, she's great. You know, one day she might not be. You know, that's on me. Yeah. And I care about that. I really do care. Okay, we're going to return to the water of Avatar, the way of water,

but I have one video I want to show you because I've had the privilege. Is this quite cool? I've had the privilege over the years of talking to your old buddy. Just newsflash. have no idea what he's about to show me. I have no idea. She has no idea. Leo.

And I asked him the question that you all hate getting asked. Okay, biggest movie controversy of all time. Could Jack have fit on that door at the end? Oh my gosh. I thought it. I remember bawling my eyes out when I was... I have no comment. That's telling, I think.

That is the biggest controversy, I think. In modern cinema. Ever. Could you... Could you... Could you... Could you... Yeah.

No comment. Did you mention it at the time? Should we make the door small? Like I said, I have no comment. He, I've never seen him stonewall, me or anybody else, more on a question. He just shut down completely. Yeah. What's your attitude about that silly question after all these years?

Oh, God. You just have to make a joke of it, don't you? I don't fucking know. That's the answer. I don't fucking know. Could you have fit on the bloody... Look, all I can tell you is, I do have a decent understanding of water and how it behaves.

You more than most, yes. I really do, okay? But not just that in my own life. Like, we paddleboard, we surf, we kite surf. I don't actually like kiteboarding as much as my husband does and is extremely good at it. I do win surf and I really do enjoy that. I scuba dive, we swim, we cold water swim.

Like, we do a lot in the water. One thing I can honestly tell you, so a paddleboard, so a stand-up paddleboard, if you put two adults on a stand-up paddleboard, it becomes immediately extremely unstable. That is for sure. If you put two adults and, say, a seven-year-old on a paddleboard, you can't do anything. You'll be tipping, you'll be falling in the water. So the reality is, it was a door that. But is it an intact door? Is it a bit broken?

It's a bit broken, isn't it? You were there. I don't you tell me. I can't know. Anyway, I think there's a piece broken off. I have to be honest, right? I actually don't believe that we would have survived if we had both gotten on that door. Okay.

I think that he could have fit. Right. But he was already pretty worse for the wear. It would have tipped. It would have tipped. And it would not have been, it would not have been a, sustainable idea. So you heard it here for the first time. Yes, he could have fit. He could have fit on that door, but it would not have stayed afloat. It wouldn't.

Now leave Kate and Leo and Jim alone. And also, apparently, I was too fat. Oh, no. That's... Isn't it awful? Why were they so mean to me? They were so mean. They were so mean. I wasn't even fucking fat. It's insane. It's insane. It's insane. I've sworn so many times in this interview.

I'm so sorry. No, I love it. The way you and Leo were treated in different ways, bizarre. But you got your Oscar nomination. He didn't get the nomination. You at least got that out of it. Yeah, lucky me. I did.

I know, it's so weird. But it's funny, isn't it? If I could turn back the clock, I would have used my voice in a completely different way. I would have absolutely, I would have said to journalists, I would have responded. I would have said, don't you dare treat me like this. I'm a young woman.

My body is changing. I'm figuring it out. I'm deeply insecure. I'm terrified. Don't make this any harder than it already is. That's bullying, you know? And actually, borderline abusive, I would say. A thousand percent.

And now that wouldn't happen. And if it did happen, a young actor would truly respond in exactly the way I just did. Right. But also, you know, this nonsense of like commenting on bodies and how women look,

it's getting better, but we still got such a ways to go. so ingrained in a disgusting way, that it's hard to... Even if an actress looks... Even if an actress walks out on a red carpet and happens to look amazing and whatever she's wearing, the fact that people will say, looking, you know, cuts a fine figure, looks honed and toned, or that dreadful word, svelt, don't even say it. We don't say that about the men.

It's such an irresponsible thing to do, and it feeds directly into young women aspiring to ideas of perfection that don't exist, aspiring to have bodies that, you know, the press are saying that we have. It's for one night and one night only that we're in that damn dress. And believe you me, mine comes straight off the second I'm in the car on the way home

and I'm in my pajamas. That is how it is. Like I'm right there eating chips and farting. That's what we do. You know? I mean, one of the few things we can do, you can do, and it's great that you're doing it, is just speak to the hypocrisy.

over and over and over again in a public form because it doesn't happen overnight and you're right it's changing as many things are but it's slow going it's slow going it is slow going and you know not to kind of do down the red carpet occasions because they're important they're fun and actually it's so tough in the world right now that i'm sure it's nice for people to see you know actors coming together looking all dressed up and what have you i completely understand that and it's very much a part of the job and i do respect it But yeah, I just wish there weren't quite so many comments on the physical form of actresses. It's, it's, why, why?

You know, bodies are bodies. Everyone's beautiful, however they are and whatever they came with, you know. It still drives me kind of crazy. I definitely think we can do better with that stuff. We can. Let's talk a little bit about this amazing new work. chance to see Avatar of the Wave Water yesterday and it delivers never doubt James Cameron people I keep saying to people it's like he how many times does he have to prove that he does

it better than anyone he takes his time oh my god but it's okay it's okay he always gets there in the end he does and you've got a wonderful role in this talk to me a little bit about when he comes to you is there a script is he describing the character is he describing I've got these four potential more movies like what how does the the conversation happen on this so the exact process on this was was actually relatively straightforward I guess in the sense that I'd seen Jim in 2014 I was given a star on the walk of fame I say that quietly because I'm always a bit like oh that's a star thing but Jim very kindly came to that event and spoke and we'd had a conversation the night before and he just had said to me

things like what do you want me to say what do you want me not to say kind of it was so sweet and at the end of the conversation he said so at some point we need to get you big and blue and I said my god Oh, that would be amazing, having loved, obviously, the first avatar. So that was 2014, and then in 2017, he did call me and say, look, I actually really do want to talk to you about this character. It's a really significant role in terms of the story arc and what we're saying about mothers and protection of family.

And he described Renal, and his actual words, he said she's the female goddess warrior leader of the water tribe. Right, in. Tick, tick, tick, tick, tick, I'm in. And I told my children and, you know, who at the time were, I don't know, I guess Meera and Joe would have been, what, 16, 17 and, you know, like 17 and 13. And they were just like, well, you have to do it. And I said, well, you know, they're going to send the script, we're going to read it. They're like, no, you just have, just do it, you just have to do it.

it. So, and then, of course, I read the script. And actually, the script was pretty much, I'd say, almost as it was when we then came to shoot. And it was just amazing. It's an interesting challenge. I mean, an exciting prospect. By the way, it strikes me that, like, the two arguably most formative filmmakers you worked with early on are like the two biggest proponents of performance capture, Peter Jackson, of course, and Jim. It's just an odd circumstance. But this character, like, not a ton of dialogue, actually, but like, the the physicality is important. And I'm like you're doing like, you know,

you get war cries and hissing and all these kind of like other ways of impacting and conveying emotion that totally works a thousand percent. But I'm curious from an acting perspective, did it feel, I don't know, like a different sort of a challenge? Was it more freeing to embrace physicality

over dialogue or what? Well, Jim said to me, look, don't be freaked out by the motion capture thing. He said, because actually that's just that's just a technical setup really. So once you're in your motion capture suit and you have your dots all over your face and your helmet cam and your helmet and your helmet and your helmet cam,

everything rigged and ready to go, you then go through, you get rommed into the system. So you stand in front of... Yeah, they do. You stand in front of the camera and at front of a camera and you make a sequence of something like 26 physical poses and you do the same for the face and then you are caught

in the computer system for the day and then you're free to go so then as actors there's no hair and makeup there's no lighting there's no camera setups there's no marks to hit you are completely free and actually it's a very

sort of pure form of acting partly because you can't hide at all I mean you've got cameras rigged everywhere in the roof of the sound stage plus the cameras that you can physically see, not to mention a little GoPro that sits right here in front of your face. So every movement, you know, the gap between your teeth,

the way your eyeballs move, you know, when you close your eyes and you really squeeze and tense your whole face together, everything is captured. And it's a luxury because the subtlety that you can put into these performances is quite surprising. You wouldn't imagine that would be the case, but it really is. Yeah, the close-ups in this film, like, it's like you're just, it's flawless. Like, you're seeing a performance, like, without a thousand percent.

It's just all there. Yeah, yeah. It was, I honestly loved the experience. It's very collaborative. And Zoe in particular, well, Zoe and Sam, because they created these characters and this world. Zoe was very much a part of the invention of the voice and the moves of the Navi people and how they live and what they think.

And so creating a spirit for these characters was something that I was so grateful she had done that and was right there so she could kind of show me some things and guide me sometimes and she was so generous and kind. And they're very instinctive as actually. both of them, but Zoe in particular she really acts with her whole heart.

Yeah. And as Naitiri, that is Naitiri. Right. And so it was very special to be around that because you get really sucked into it. It's extremely inspiring. Looking ahead, not to be greedy, we know you're in the next one. Are you the next like four? He's saying now there's definitely hopefully going to be four and five,

but now he's even saying there might be a six and seven. Like has he told you, how far out has he told you the story? the story. There's only so much I know. Okay. Okay. But you're ready to go back in the water? Already you're legend.

Jim knows that if he asked me to do anything, I'd just do it. But yeah, there's only so much I know. I understand. Let's talk just generally a little bit about some other things, because you've been doing a lot of television in recent years. I mentioned Mary of East Town, which I was obsessed with, as many were.

It strikes me, like, a lot of, like, the great films you did back in the day, they probably wouldn't be films now. It's almost like little children, the reader. Maybe those are Netflix miniser. Who knows? Who knows if someone funds those movies for a theatrical release?

Is that part of why television has been increasingly important in your career? It's just where the material is, where the good stories are, or has it been a calculated kind of thing? Just give me a sense of how that's, of all. There's nothing that I've ever done that has been calculated.

Apart from the first thing I chose to do after Titanic, that was an actual specific move on my part to take a step back. But you're right. I mean, there aren't as many arty films being made in the way that, you know, yes, little children. It tells Sunshine, the reader. And that is a shame. It's very, very sad.

However, television is extraordinary. Yeah. Extraordinary and we get to play characters for longer periods of time. And in the case of Mereveistown, we have opportunities presented to us that may not have existed before if there wasn't as much television content as there is now.

It's an amazing time to be a younger actor because there's a lot of work. work. And there's less of the snobbishness versus one medium versus the other. You can go back and forth, back of the day, as you well know. It was like you don't do TV, your other TV actor or a film actor. It's funny because I just have never really cared about what people think. Right. I mean, you were pretty, I mean, Mildred Pierce was pretty early in that. So it was kind of early on in, I suppose, you know, establishing that trend. Right. Which was cool. I was one of the first. It was a trendsetter. You mentioned, you referenced a couple times

kind of in the wake of Titanic making that choice and knowing like you weren't in a place and still aren't like embracing celebrity that's not who you are that's not the life you want well in terms of material like did what kind of stuff were you getting like were you getting interesting material or was it's no one's ever really asked me that um i was getting the big stuff i was um definitely but i've i was raised by two people who taught us how to be happy with very, very little. Right. And so I was never driven by the financial dangled carrot.

That was just not a motivator for me. Are there any of those things? How lucky am I? Yeah, that's a great luxury. Yeah. It can screw up the algorithm totally for you. Yeah. Because, yeah, there were reports and you can say yes or no

or just, you know, opt out. but like Shakespeare in Love, Luan Rouge was talked about. I found a random article back in the day that said you were going to be in Phantom Menace, the Star Wars movie. Do you remember anything about that? I don't remember that actually. Okay.

Possibly remember a few things about the other things. Fair enough. And is there, just selfishly for Mare, is there a talk of the second season? Where are you guys at in terms of discussing the future for Mare? Oh, okay. Long silence. I honestly, if it's how, I, I just don't know what we'll do.

Okay. I just, you know, all I can say is no decision has been made, honestly. It really hasn't. And it's a tricky one, you know, being completely honest about, oh God, here we go, this is going to get quoted and re-quoted. But being completely honest about how that would evolve, you know, those are questions that none of us can answer quite yet. Like, how would that evolve? It was, it was so good. and it was way more successful

and prominent as a piece of television that I think any of us could ever anticipated or hoped for. And we all feel enormously proud of what we were able to do and I'm so proud of all the actors, my God, it was really tough. So the question is, do you know, do you quit while you're ahead?

Do you hold your head high and say, look at what we did, I'm so proud of that? And just walk away or do we go for it again, you know, it was a lot for me to play that character. I'm not going to lie. And coming out the other side was frighteningly hard. And, you know, it made me realize, oh my God, if I go to work now, it really hurts. And I have to look after myself because I have a family and I can't just, you know, do that.

Obviously, we all go together. It's not a case of being away for months and months and months on end or anything. anything. But, you know, a lot goes into it. I can't just go, oh, yes, let's just do it again. It's not. It's a colossal, colossal commitment and did really take a huge amount out of me. And I know that it would do that again. It would have to if I was going to give people what they want and ultimately deserve to see out of Mersheon. But, you know, you never know. I was going to say, you got the accent still in there, right? Unfortunately, yes. It's there forever. And I only say, unfortunately, because

because it was so ingrained in me that I had a moment recently on, I was filming Lee, the film I just rapped about Lee Miller. And I had a scene, this was really freaky, I had a scene where I had fallen, and I limped for like a couple of scenes after it, like, you know, just kind of loosening up this pain. And I had to limp.

And of course, episode one and into a bit of episode two, Mary's limping because she had fallen when chasing Freddie Hanlon, okay? So as I limp It's coming back Into this scene And my My accent on Lee was

You know It was a simple Straightforward Much more generic American I swear to you I walk into a damp cellar And I walk up to a soldier And I say

With my limp Hey what's going on What's going on? I promise you And I was like Ha! Ah! Ah! Stop!

Okay Please can we do that again. Please go to do that again. Oh my God, I was mayor. That was really bad. That's never happened to me before. I was like, it's still in there. And that's like, you know, over two years later

from having started shooting, really terrifying. This has been a real treat. Honestly, thank you for the time. I know these junkets, they're running you ragged, so I appreciate you making the time for something like this. The movie is extraordinary. All the work is. I can't wait for folks in the U.S. also to see I am Ruth,

to see you and your daughter and your son. Thanks again. at the time to it. It's been awesome. We're welcome. Thank you. And so ends another edition of Happy, Sad, Confused. Remember to review, rate, and subscribe to this show on iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm a big podcast person.

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