Happy Sad Confused - Kate Winslet, Vol. II

Episode Date: September 26, 2024

She's one of our greatest actors (TITANIC, THE READER, ETERNAL SUNSHINE OF THE SPOTLESS MIND) who also happens to be one of the great conversations out there so you're in for a treat. Kate Winslet is back on the podcast for a chat about her passion project, LEE, and her remarkable career. Recorded at the 92nd Street Y. #happysadconfused #joshhorowitz #katewinslet Subscribe here⁠ to the new Happy Sad Confused clips channel so you don't miss any of the best bits of Josh's conversations! SUPPORT OUR SPONSORS! BetterHelp -- Go to BetterHelp.com/HSC for 10%off UPCOMING LIVE EVENTS! Andrew Garfield 10/4 -- tickets here! 10th Anniversary event with David Harbour, Sam Heughan, Jack Quaid, and more! 10/12 -- tickets here! Anna Kendrick 10/22 -- tickets here! Check out the ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Happy Sad Confused patreon here⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠! We've got discount codes to live events, merch, early access, exclusive episodes, video versions of the podcast, and more! To watch episodes of Happy Sad Confused, subscribe to ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Josh's youtube channel here⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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It can feel exhausting, even impossible to keep up with. I'm Brad Milkey. I'm the host of Start Here, the Daily Podcast from ABC News. And every morning, my team and I get you caught up on the day's news in a quick, straightforward way that's easy to understand, with just enough context so you can listen, get it, and go on with you. your day. So, kickstart your morning. Start Smart with Start Here and ABC News, because staying informed shouldn't feel overwhelming. So if we're doing the Kate Winslet Biopic, what years do we choose? What are the most defining years that we're... These years right now, baby.

I mean, come on. Girls, listen, I have to say, I think when we get, as we get older, we become more of everything. We become more power, more work. More, woman, juicier, we get, we're sexier, we're more vibrant. Like, this is it now. Prepare your ears, humans. Happy, sad, confused begins now. Welcome, welcome. Thank you all so much for being here tonight. My name is Josh Horowitz, and today on Happy, Sad, Confused, we're live at the 92nd Street Y with Kate Winslet, everybody. Are you ready for this? Thank you all so much for sharing your evening with us, New York. Thank you all for watching around the world.

If you're listening or watching the podcast, thank you for viewing this and enjoying this. This is going to be a special night. This audience in New York City has just seen this amazing movie, Lee, this true passion project for Kate Winslet. Give it up for Lee. Come on, everybody. This amazing film. It is about to open, but they got a sneak peek. We're going to talk all about the legend that was Lee Miller, but we're also going to talk

about the legend that is, Kate Winslet. I'm not going to even attempt to list her accolades, but suffice it to say, arguably the actor of her generation, one of the greats of all times. So there's a lot to talk about this film, about her life and career. So let's get right to it. Please give a big New York City welcome to Kate Winslet, everybody. Come on. Thank you very much. That's a good way to start. Can I just say, I really don't like standing in the wings. I don't like that feeling.

I asked Kate, right before we walked out, I'm like, nothing gets Kate Winslet nervous, does it? And you're like, no, this I hate. I'm in the wings, I'm like, bleh. It's not a nice feeling. Please don't ever make me do it. Okay. Sorry for that 20 seconds of pain, but the next hour is going to be wonderful.

Congratulations on the movie. There is a lot to discuss. Thank you. To quote your movie, all interviews are interrogations. So I apologize in advance. I'm going to try not to make it that. The good ones anyway. Yeah, exactly.

First of all, welcome back to New York. You spent a portion of your life in New York City. I'm wondering, what do you miss about New York? Is there anything about New York that is not in your life that you recall fondly. Honestly, it's moments like this one, when people can choose to either come out or stay home, and good old New Yorkers come out.

I mean, honestly, it's a great reminder of the energy of this city. And yeah, and that's definitely something that I'll always miss. Okay, so let's talk about this fantastic movie. Congratulations. This is quite an undertaking. For those that don't know,

I mean, look, we all know, I think if we know anything about you, that you take your work very seriously, you pour your heart and soul into every project, but this one in particular, it has to be said, many years in the making, you're a producer on this film, this movie does not exist without Kate Winslet, talk

to me a little bit about, I mean, is it hard to get a movie made if you're Kate Winslet's saying I want to tell Lee Miller's story? How much of a hurdle is it in actuality? How much time do I It's so fucking hard. You know, it's an interesting time for movies.

You know, I think the market has changed completely. I think COVID had a huge amount to do with that. The world of independent film is kind of literally clinging on by its fingertips. And yeah, it was absolutely hard. But I have to say as well that I got involved in 2015, or rather, I thought to myself, why hasn't anyone made a movie about Lee Miller in 2015? And that's when I went and met Anthony Penrose, Lee's son, and first started talking to him. But actually, the process of developing the film was completely amazing.

And I was in no rush over that. I sort of had this attitude of, if it happens, it happens. going to keep going and hope for the best. And there's no point trying to get ahead. We've got to get the script right first. Because if the script isn't right, there isn't a movie anyway, and the actors won't come, and the crew won't come, and you're not going to get a good director,

and you know, all of those things. So actually, the first sort of four years was myself and Tony, and one of our writers, Marion Hume, who I've known actually since I was 16 years old, and she was an investigative journalist. and she worked in the world of fashion journalism and she goes through it several novels. And she helped me in the very early stages

with just my own research. And the documents that she and I were putting together, I realized, this is ridiculous, Marion, you should actually be writing this script. And she said, I'm not a screenwriter and I was like, you're about to become one. It was like, oh, oh. So it was her and I together.

And then Liz Hannah came on board. And after about the first five years, the script was ready, and it was time to start thinking about financing and directors. And that's a whole other journey, I'm sure. And that's a whole other journey, yeah. First, in terms of developing the story you wanted to tell, how quickly did you hone in on what this story was? Because Lee lived many lives, and you arguably could have done the whole cradle to grave story, but you chose a very specific window into this life. Yeah, so there were versions of the script that did start her life quite a bit earlier.

But as time was going by, I just felt increasingly sort of restless with this idea of giving air time to the period in her life when she had been a model, because she had hated being a model. And this, you know, this muse of Man Ray ex-lover, you know, former Vogue cover girl, these labels, that had been placed on her, that if you were to Google Lee Miller, she was viewed through the male gaze, this sort of reductive word, muse, you know,

it's very sexist. And I thought, hang on, that's just not who Lee was. This is crazy. Okay, we get rid of all of that. And I started to think, okay, if someone was to tell the story of my life, what would be the 10 years that I was the most, proudest of. And I thought actually Lee's 10 years just before, during and after the war, I think would be the 10 years that she would most want to be remembered for, okay, that's the story we're going to tell. And Liz Hannah had noticed very wisely that Anthony Penrose has done so much to not only upholding his mother's legacy, but also coming to understand

since her death in 1977, who she truly was, and also understand why she was the way she was as a mother, because they had a really difficult relationship. And he really struggled. She had a dangerous relationship with alcohol. And she was in the acute stages of PTSD for a number of years, whilst raising a small child. Right.

And like so many people after the war, she never spoke about it. So after her death in 1977, Anthony was in his 30s and his first child, Amy, was born. She's a little bit younger than me. And his wife, Susanna, was holding this tiny baby Amy and said, Tony, I wonder if the baby looks anything like you did. When you were a baby, why aren't there any baby pictures in the house? Go in that attic and have a look and see what you can find. And as Tony reminded me the other day,

that she came downstairs, Susanna, his wife, she came downstairs holding some pieces of paper. And she said, I think you need to read this. And he sat down, siege of San Marlowe, by war correspondent Lee Miller, on the ground and in the moment. And he sat and read this manuscript. and then started opening boxes and found 60,000 negatives and prints of what his mother had done during the war. And he had never known what she had done.

And so it's incredibly emotional for Tony to watch this film and to have this closure, you know. And Liz Hannah said, we've got to give them a conversation that they clearly never got to have. And when that was worked into the script, suddenly I was like, okay, now I think we've got a movie. Well, look, we always hear this conversation about a responsibility, especially when you're obviously playing a real figure and you've played real figures in your career before. But it's a whole other thing when part of the mission statement, and it sounds like it is, is to truly reframe the narrative of someone's life for now and forever. I mean, that's part of what you're trying to do here, which is a huge... I was aware that, like, you know, I thought, my God, if people go and see this film,

if I ever get it made, hopefully people will go and see this film who've never heard of Lee Miller and will discover her this way because Lee lived her life at full throttle on her terms. And I thought, my God, if people could discover Lee this way on her terms, having done this extraordinary thing,

for women. She invented that role, war correspondent for British Vogue. I mean, it's an extraordinary thing that she did, but she just wasn't going to take no for an answer and to have had that courage and to have gone there and still been told, no women in the press briefing, you know, but she just wasn't going to take, she wasn't going to take any of that. And she didn't go home. She was undeterred. She kept her eyes open. She didn't look away. She just kept going. She knew she was there to bear witness. And she felt an absolute duty to do that. And I think, I mean, the thing that I allowed to really sort of drive me as the person playing her was because of what had happened to Lee when she was a child. And because she refused to let that define her.

which is absolutely true. She did carry this very powerful streak of injustice. And she could have hated men. By rights, she could easily have been a man-hater. She could have been extremely vengeful. But she wasn't, as you see, she loved men. She loved life. She loved her physical self.

She was very at ease in her body and a very sexual, warm, welcome, person who took women under her wing. That was something else she did a lot. But going to war, I do think that injustice that came right up and her ability to see evil. And that was actually something in my prep process. I did meet women who were the survivors of sexual abuse and they did say to me, it changes the way you see the world. And it does give you an insight to evil that nobody else could possibly ever have. And Lee had that.

I do feel like you describing aspects of her determination. I mean, it's well known, I think, that maybe your motto, your unofficial motto is commit or it's shit. That could have been Lee Miller's model. Especially when putting on a wetsuit. It works in many circumstances, but especially then. 100%. I mean, one of the joys of this I would. imagine is this is the first time producing a film for you.

You surround yourself with some amazing crew in front of the camera, behind the camera. You are working with Alan Curis, who talk about a flashback, was the DP on Eternal Sunshine, the Spotless Mind. Yeah. Fantastic. And then plucking all these great actors, I mean, Andy Sandberg, everybody, I mean, unbelievable. My God, I'm going to tell him you all did that.

Just talk to me a little bit about the joy and the task of like kind of assembling your dream team for something like this for the first time. I mean, it was, it really was like that. I just, I realized, my God, I've got the opportunity to sit down and really make this with amazing people, but also lovely people. You know, because life is so short. And in any industry, you come across people who can, you know, if an actor is a little bit maybe tricky, in England you say, oh, a little bit minty. And I've only come across a couple of minty ones. But on this film, we had complete diamonds.

I mean, and I have to be honest, the casting process was fantastic. We had brilliant casting director, Lucy Bevan, and her partner, Olivia Grant. But by the time Lucy came on, I said, don't worry, I've got Andrea, and I've got Josh O'Connor. So that's done. And I think I've got Marion Cotillard.

And I'm pretty sure that she was like, this is fantastic. So we then just did it together. And the people who we hadn't cast at that point, like Alex Scarsgaard, Naomi Merlin, Zeta Hanrow, these wonderful, wonderful French actors, this was the thing. We all, we just did it together. There were no egos. Everyone just mucked in.

But I have to say that Andrea Reisbra, who is, I think, a transcendent actress, and I have always admired her. But I'd never met her, and we'd never cross past at all. And I just thought, I wonder if she'd play Audrey. And I was able to get her phone number, and we scheduled a time to call, and we had this FaceTime chat. And she could not have been lovelier. She is the definition of a munch.

And on the call, she said, on the call, she said, I would absolutely love to support you and join you. And Andrea, she just stayed saying yes. Like sometimes an actor will say yes, but then schedules change and things drop out and it doesn't work. And they're like, I'm so sorry, but there's other great big things come up.

And, you know, I haven't, I don't, I have, she didn't. She would call and she'd say, just checking, something else has come in, but what are your dates? Okay, good, yep, no, we're good. I'm going to just tell them I can't go before, it'll have to wait till after, and that is what she did. Same with Marion, same with Josh, and it says a lot, and then Andy. So it was Marion Hume, the writer I was mentioning earlier, and she phoned me one day, and she went, Winslet, have you actually seen how much Andy Sandberg looks like the real Davy Sherman? And I said, does he?

And she was like, oh, my God. And so, of course, I pulled up the images and I put the two of them side by side. I thought, wow, he really does. That's uncanny. And she said, ring him up and ask him. I said, I don't know Andy Sandberg. I can't just ring people up.

She's like, oh, pull the other one, get his number. You know, see if he'll talk. And so, and I said to look, I don't know. if he would feel comfortable shifting gears like that because it is a big ask and it's a very big ask for a part like Davy and sure enough Andy was absolutely brilliant he was really interested in having a conversation and actually he said look don't you don't you want me to don't you guys want me to read something like he said I feel like I need to see even if I can do it and so we had this kind of very relaxed zoom and we did we read a couple of scenes together

and he was completely fantastic and then right before we hung up on the Zoom I said Andy I said I wonder it might sound really weird and it might feel strange but should we just do one more take and do you mind just doing absolutely nothing with your face and he was like okay

like the biggest face ever and he did this one version of the scene and he didn't move his face and suddenly he didn't move his face And suddenly he became Davy outside Hitler's bathroom saying those people, they were my people. And I could hear him saying those words. And I thought, you are going to be amazing.

And he absolutely was, and we were very close, and he was just open to, he would say, anything, tell me. Was it shit? Was it good? Is there something in the middle? Have you got any ideas? And we just, that's how we operated. And he was absolutely wonderful. to work with. He was just wonderful. With Amex Platinum, access

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So if we're doing the Kate Winslet biopic, what years do we choose? What are the most defining years that we're? These years right now, baby. I mean, come on, girls, listen, I have to say, I think when we get, as we get older, we become more of everything, we become more power, more woman, juicier, we're sexier, we're more vibrant, like this is it now. This show is sponsored by Better Help. Is there something that you'd love to learn?

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So since photography is so important to this film, I thought, if you'll indulge me, I pulled to some select photos throughout your life and career. I hate you already. Yeah, I know. I absolutely hate you. I promise you I didn't know he was going to do this. What are you doing to me? Take a look at this.

I don't think I want to, actually. This is Kate. Am I allowed to curse? Yes, you can curse, please. Let's take away this first photo. This is upsetting. No, don't be upset. This is Kate.

Oh, my God, I look like my son. Don't I look like that? This is you at 16, the caption read. No, I'm not 16. This is according to... No, they are wrong. I actually remember this photograph being here. Okay, well, tell me.

So I'm 14, and I had just been cast in a television series called Dark Season. Is that right? That is correct. I have a real memory for dates and things. It's very irritating, actually. actually, and it's particularly irritating, when you can remember not only your own dialogue, but everyone else is.

And the scene from Mayor of East Town sees episode two when she tells the flipping pediatrician about her son, anyway, it'll be gone to, five years later. But I remember a photographer coming to my school to take this photograph of me, and I remember my mum saying, oh, I'm so glad you wore your hair down.

I remember her saying that. I don't remember her saying that. Okay, we can take that off for now, don't worry. There's more coming. But what did a career look like to you then? What was the dream? What was the hope for what an acting career might look like? I mean, I don't think I, I think I just hoped that I would be able to do the thing I loved.

I don't think I actually thought about, I certainly didn't think about being famous and in films. I absolutely did not think about that. I just thought, well, hopefully I'll do theatre. Hopefully I'll do theatre and maybe I'll get the odd episode of things and make a living from that. I mean, that is honestly is what I thought. And so when I was 17 and I was asked to audition for Peter Jackson's Heavenly Creatures, I remember thinking, oh my God,

it's a film. It's an actual film and holding a film script in my hands. And like I'd never even held a film script in my hands. And it's, you know, it's quite thick and it feels quite heavy. And I remember thinking, oh my God, if I could get this. And my dad drove me to London to the first audition. And it was just an amazing moment. I said, oh my God, dad, I wonder if I'd get this.

and he just went, he had a one hand on the steering wheel, and he just took my hand, and he went, you'll get it. And I just thought, yes, I will get it, actually. That is what I'm going to do. And then I just had this quiet, steady, humble determination. And it's what I tell my kids now, and any young actor, I'm like, humble, steady, stay the course. Small voice on your shoulder that tells you you can do it.

That's all you need. And that was, I developed these little strategies to kind of, pardon my French, but mind-fuck myself before walking into an audition room. Because you have to tell yourself, yes, I am the person for this part. They just haven't realized it yet. But I'm going to walk in the room and they're going to go, oh, it's her. And you have to tell yourself these things. There's no one else is going to tell you. Well, what people might not realize is, like, people might have this idea of you as this like Rada trained actor early on, but you weren't.

trained. So I would imagine there is a bit of imposter syndrome that you have to fight on those first gigs. Yes. Yeah. I mean, I just kept thinking, what am I doing here? And then when I was cast in Sense and Sensibility, I just thought, well, they have made a mistake because what am I doing here? I mean, this was on day one of the shoot and there's Emma Thompson, Alan Rickman Hugh Grant You know All these

Angley directing Angley Kate from Reading Which of these people And then there's me And I'm like No they've definitely Made a mistake

And they just read the wrong name off the list When they made the phone call About the person playing the Marianne part But then they didn't have the guts To tell me that actually They had They had phoned the wrong girl

So they were just going to Hoping I was going to get it right but I absolutely I absolutely thought that yeah I was not supposed to be there okay I have a question about that but first just a quick photo of uh heavenly creatures you mentioned this is you and the great Melanie Linsky uh just for a reminder for the audience because it is a fantastic film amazing the great Melanie Linsky me see now dare I look like my daughter now so you mention sense and sensibility and it must have been something to see especially Emma Thompson at that time, who was a writer on the film as well, as just an example of, I mean,

everybody knows what Emma Thompson is as an actor, writer, creator, human being. Was that an immediate like North Star for you on set? Yes. Yes. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And in so many ways still is. She, she has a groundedness and a clarity of perception about the industry as a whole. And she, I remember her saying to me after Titanic, because she was naturally, I think, she was quite sort of protective of me and I think she was naturally just sort of worried, like is, you know, not is Kate going to go off the rails because clearly that wasn't in my personality, but just that it can be very overwhelming and what was I going to do?

And she did say to me, listen, babe, she said, just remember, it's equally as important not to work as it is to work. And I have never forgotten that. And I think that's really, really true. Because I think if you, as a young actor, often if you do, well, I don't know, this is not a generalized comment really,

other than it's an observation that I certainly was able to make about myself, I knew that I didn't want this to run out. I wanted to always be doing this job. And I thought, God, if I do it a lot, then maybe people would get sick of me and they'd think, oh, okay, well, not her anymore, and let's move on to somebody else.

And so I do remember really taking it very seriously what Emma had said and acting on it, and still acting on it, actually. You got your first Oscar nomination for Sense and Sensibility. That is a little bit ridiculous. Did it feel ridiculous? I was sitting on my radio mic back. Yeah, don't do that.

For a second, that's not wrong. Did it feel, what do you recall of that time? Was that, I mean, that must be a surreal moment for a young actor to, very early in your career to be, to get that accolated. It was just unbelievable. I was 19. Completely it is really a bit ridiculous. I mean, it is and I just was I just couldn't believe it, but I still didn't think Oh, this is it. I'm on my path right. I just thought these just these

Extraordinary moments that were there to You know make the most of and it also terrifying. I mean it's really for anybody let alone a 19-year-old, my gosh. But I mean, I would imagine also, I found this very sweet photo that it's you and your parents that night at the Oscars. Oh, don't know, let me cry now.

Don't cry, but you don't have to look if you don't want, but it is very sweet for the audience to see. Take a look. So, I mean, that part of the joy is sharing those kind of things with family, and, you know, it's still Kate from Reading. My mom loved her outfit, that she was given an outfit,

and she couldn't believe it. She wore it about a hundred times after that. Any fancy dinner? She'll wear my Oscar jacket. She loved it, yeah. Amazing. I don't know what more can be said about Titanic at this point, but we're going to try, let me say something.

Do you remember the first time you ever saw it? You saw the finished film? Yes, and actually it was in New York. And I went to a movie theater. What's the big one over on the Central Park West. There's a big one. Yes, yeah, it was there. And I snuck in with two friends. And that was where I saw it for the first time, because when it premiered in London, I was really unwell. I had a terrible food poisoning and I was actually in hospital in London. It was completely weird.

And then when it came out in the US, I actually, I was at the funeral of my boyfriend. I mean, it's a terrible thing to even think about now. Yeah, and obviously I wasn't going to miss that. So I sort of missed all of the everything around the release of Titanic, which I don't know. Is that the universe's way of protecting? me from something or just reminding me to do the things that matter. Except, of course, that it was in theaters for like a year and you couldn't escape it for the rest of your life.

Yeah. So there's that. I don't know what the universe is saying about that. But yes, so I saw it here and snuck in with, and I just remember thinking, oh my God, it's packed. That's weird. It's a packed theater. We might be onto something.

I'm in one of those films where actually people go and fill every seat. That was quite strange. Yeah, a photo from Titanic is if you need a reminder. The last time we spoke a year and a half ago, we had what is called a viral moment talking about the infamous door. I'm not gonna go through if he could have fit or not, don't worry.

Okay, good. Except to say that when I ask Leo this, I feel like he still has PTSD from being asked that question. He probably got PTSD even the whole thing. Yeah, sorry, can we put that photo up though of Kate and Leo? There they are, yeah. That doesn't look so pleasant to shoot at the time, but anything for the...

Well, that was quite an awkward tank, that one, because to burst a bubble, it was waist height that tank. No. So, first of all, I was regularly like, can I just go for a pee? And then I'd get up, get off the door, walk to the edge of the tank that was sort of 20 feet away. And I'd literally have to fling my leg over and climb out of the tank. go for a pee and then come back and crawl back on the door again. I know. It's terrible to admit these things. Anyway, yeah. So it was a waist height tank.

Leo is, I'm afraid, kneeling down on the bottom of the tank. I shouldn't be saying any of these things. Jim Cameron's going to be ringing me. Why are you telling them all that? Anyway, but actually the thing that was amazing about the edges of the tank was that it was an infinity tank, so there was constant water rushing and you could hear the constant sound of water, which, let me tell you, everybody, means that the last 22 minutes of that movie are entirely

looped. Everything in this, Jack, completely looped, the whole thing. I promise you, because you could hear this water noise the whole time. Yeah, yeah. Very good at looping as a result. I mean, it must not surprise you at this point that it keeps popping up. Like, I mean, even last year in pop culture, there was the, what, anyone but you, the Sydney Sweeney, Gwen Powell movie. I don't know if you saw that. They recreated the Titanic moment, as it were.

At this point, it's just like, it's just always going to be a part of your life to some degree. And that's what it is. Yeah, absolutely fine. We mentioned Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind, which, for my money, is one of the great films, like, period. If we could bring up that photo while we talk about it, that would be great. I mean, you mentioned Andy, like, playing against type and being astounding. I mean, both you and Jim were really playing against type at the time.

Did you both feel kind of out on a limb with the crazy, wonderful Michelle Gondry in that Charlie Kaufman's script? Yeah, can I just tell a story about this photo? Because I remember this day. So I had had one hour sleep because my daughter at the time was two and I was living in the city and she had some terrible vomiting and fever virus and I had to sit with my legs out with her lying against my body so that her head could be upright because any time she lay down she just threw up

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actually, I do look like I'm about to pass out there. But Michelle Gondry was just brilliant. He was absolutely incredible and he was funny and charming and kind and very, very spontaneous. And I mean, so much of Eternal Sunshine was really done through the camera. I mean, just very basic tricks, you know. So, for example, there's a scene in Dr. Mirzreak's office

played by Tom Wilkinson, who very sadly passed away, not so long ago. But he's sitting at a desk in the middle, and on one side of the, there's Jim and I on one side of the room, and then we suddenly appear on the other side of the room from a different time frame. We are full on running around the back of the camera, changing costumes to just sit there,

so by the time the camera pans to us, Bump, we're in these different situations. And then the camera pans away, and we run around the back of the camera again and change back. I mean, it was absolutely brilliant. And lots of kind of hidden doors and pieces of set that we would just slip out the back of,

so we'd be there one minute and gone the next. It was just very old-schooled filmmaking in a way that was sort of utterly unique, because people tend to rely on big fancy stuff. But when you learn, like the way I learned on independent films and also the way that Michelle Gondry has always worked. You know, sometimes you just don't need all the fancy stuff, someone like him.

Well, and that film in particular, such a marriage of what you're talking about, and then underneath it is just like the most human, relatable, emotional story that like, it's just a perennial now for everyone. You know, falling into, breaking up, it's just that movie I come back to. I feel like we all come back to.

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do this job and have this career and have met some extraordinary people and continue to learn. You see, that's the thing. I mean, working on Lee, you know, not for Kate Solomon, my producing partner who's here this evening, you know, I was by myself going, okay, shit, I'm actually producing, I'm really doing this thing, you know, I'm funding stuff and keeping things together. And I was totally just making it up. But actually, that's also producing. You just, that's what you do. It's about people. It's about working with people, pulling people together, having that energy and just taking them with you.

And then I met Kate, who had worked with Paul Greengrass across a number of years and was with working title forever. And suddenly the nuts and the bolts part of, okay, you've done all this stuff, now let's push it through. And so I just learned so much with Kate and that was the thing that got us over the edge. and whilst we also went over the edge ourselves I mean there must be a different kind of sense of satisfaction

releasing a movie into the world but I would imagine that this feels a little different if I honestly I actually can't I can't believe that we don't have to keep making the movie you're done you did it I keep saying I can't believe we don't have to keep that we don't have to keep trying to make it

or make it. We've done it, and now it's about to come out, and people are actually going to see it. And then I'm going to be doing, oh my God, I'm going to do all the US talk shows, which I'm literally starting tomorrow morning. My God, okay, we really did it. I can't believe it.

You did it. It's an amazing feeling. It's an amazing feeling. It's an amazing feeling. Oh, my God. Just because we have the photo, I don't want to waste it, the Oscar night. This is you winning your Oscar for the reader.

Take a look. There it is. That's a moment. Look at the joy. I'm like, yes! Oh my God, look at that. That's a moment. I really like that dress, actually.

That's a really nice dress. There is so much love and growing love year by year for the holiday. You are well aware of this. This is one of those that has become a thing. I mean, that is a very specific kind of acting and a kind of film. Like, is that, did that again, you know, we talked about switching gears,

Eternal Sunshine is much different than anything you'd done, but being in a Nancy Myers movie of that ilk, did it feel like, I don't know, a gear shift for you and a challenge in its own way? I mean, it's always a challenge. You know, everything is a challenge. I mean, yeah, I suppose it was, a gear shift but funnily enough I had responded to the script and that's what it's

always like sometimes it's just a feeling sometimes it's a character sometimes it's just a feeling of like I don't think I could handle seeing anybody else play that part I mean really sometimes and it was it was enormous fun and it was great to do something that was so different and I love the fact that actually what what's happened with that film is that it seems that mums and daughters watch it together around Christmas time. And I'll bump into people like in a grocery store and they say, can we just say? And I think I know exactly what you're going to say.

And they say, oh, we love the holiday, don't we? We do. We love it. It's our Christmas movie. I think, I know. I know. They say, yeah, we're always, 22nd, 23rd of December. We get a takeaway. And I think, yeah, I know. And it says there's a whole sort of culture of mothers and daughters, which is so lovely. So it's this sort of wonderful thing that I certainly wouldn't have expected.

And that often happens. And, you know, I have to say with Lee doing Q&As after some of the screenings for films just in the UK before coming here, one of the things that has been really surprising and has taken my breath away is how much women come up afterwards and share, and they will, women I've never met, and they will hold my arm and pull on my clothing. And they pull me into them, and they say,

that was me, I was told to never tell. And so that's happening with people seeing the film. And we made this film, for people who didn't know who Lee Miller was and for people who've never told. Who were you most nervous? I would imagine showing it to family, Lee's family, must have been a moment.

Is that a... It has been really incredible and also a bit terrifying because working with Anthony Penrose in the way that I was so, fortunate to be able to do. I mean, it's not often that the family are still around, let alone absolutely

the loving keepers of that archive. I mean, it's a huge internationally renowned art archive, and in there there is, I mean, not only Lee's Rollerflex, the camera kit, there's also Davy Sherman's camera kit is in there for some reason.

There are, I mean, there's artworks, there are all of Lee's letters between Lee and Audrey. Anne Lee and Rowland, very personal things, little diaries that she kept when she was a teenager, which during which time she very clearly had quite significant mental health issues. And I just was able to immerse myself in all of it, clothes, her uniform, her US war correspondent uniform, it's right there. I can tell you, there is 3.3 centimetres between every button space. I mean, I just got my hands into everything.

And being so welcomed in by Anthony was phenomenal because he didn't have to do that. You know, many people had actually tried to make films about Lee Miller over the years. And he said, oh, I've got a box of manuscripts in the attic. I'm like, what? How come? And he said, well, you know, a lot of people had a go. And I said, well, what happened? He said, they never really got her.

And it was partly this male gaze thing of I think people being convinced that it needed to start with the relationship with Man Ray but also that because Lee was such a life force and she was such a life-liver and didn't shy away and she just did she did everything with integrity you know redefining femininity to mean resilience and power and strength and compassion.

That was how she lived her life. And she was being interpreted as this kind of brazen, out-of-control drunk who ended up going to war and kind of drank her way through it. And of course, she was there to bear witness. That's what she did. She would not give up.

She knew that there were millions of unaccounted for people missing. And she was absolutely going to find where they were. were. And she was going to bear witness and she was going to be that visual voice for the innocent victims of conflict. And that's what she did. But when you think about, and it really just shocks me every time I even hear the music that plays over the Dachau sequence, which I know incredibly well because I was part of the scoring and actually was able to speak to the violinist, the solo violinist who plays the music through that piece, because I wanted him to understand that

that that sequence is also partly about the kind of the beginning of the cracking open really of Lee's PTSD, certainly from the point that she sees the little girl in the brothel there. But when you think about what Lee did to climb up and into that carriage, we recreated all of her real photographs and we were absolutely guided by that, especially through Dachau.

But there is an image, that she has taken inside a train carriage, where one can only imagine what she is standing amongst. And she's photographing the faces of the two innocent soldiers just staring in at the horrors that they can see. And creating those narratives around how she came to be in every one of those situations was really very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very

challenging. Dachau in particular, Hitler's bathtub as well. But then we did also have other moments that we really had to fill out that didn't necessarily involve a photograph itself, but her own stories. So the cutting of the Dachau negatives, so that really happened. And when I was doing research, I met a woman who's quite elderly now, and she was a 15-year-old secretary working at Vogue at the time. And she said, oh, Kate, I have to tell you a story about when Lee had her PTSD, and she came in, and I will tell you that she was quite drunk,

but she came in, and she was absolutely, it was like she was possessed, and she was pulling open boxes and ripping open filing cabinets and just tearing things out, and I couldn't work out what she was doing, and there was no one else there. there, but I didn't want to leave her because I was quite worried about her. And she found her negatives, and she picked up my scissors, and she just started hacking,

hacking, hacking into these negatives and cutting them into pieces. And she said, and I didn't know what to do because I thought she was going to hurt herself with the scissors because it was so violent this attack. And I said, well, how did you stop her? And she said, well, do you know, I took a deep breath. And I remember my mother telling me that I should always stand up for myself. And I turned around and I said, now, you look here, Lee Miller. Those are my good scissors.

You jolly well give them back. And she said that Lee just turned to her and was almost impressed by this young girl's courage. And she stopped. And she put the scissors down. And she just left. And so I always knew when I heard that story that it had to be in the film because it's, of course, the metaphor. of Lee trying to cut something out of herself and that she really did believe if nobody saw them and Audrey didn't print them then the world shouldn't see these

horrors that I've seen and poor Audrey you know her her hands were tied somewhat by the Ministry of Information who were who were they were check they were checking everything and fact checking everything that was printed and published but Audrey had been told no more no more horrors we you know people I'll have to move on, we can't, we can't. And so it's true that British Vogue literally printed two very small images on about a third of a page, and that was it, until Audrey did fight for the images,

and they were printed in American Vogue in a much bigger feature that was entitled to believe it. But Lee did feel betrayed, and actually later in life, there's an interview that Andrea listened to a lot for Audrey's voice. But within this interview, Audrey does say she never quite got over that, and she did always feel guilty,

that she hadn't fought more for Lee about those pictures. I can't imagine, I'm given what you've put into this, there can't be like five other passion projects like this in the drawer. No. This is. Not yet. There might be one brewing, but just to go back

to how valuable it was, it was to have Anthony Penrose. So I would call him. Sorry. It's really hard to talk about actually. So I would call him if there was something difficult that we were about to shoot and he would say, don't worry, you've got it.

Okay, so this is what Lee did and then he would talk me through these things. But the scene where she sits on the stairs with Audrey, which was, by the way, all filmed in the same, same day and was absolutely just the hardest day of work as an actor I've ever done. And Andrea and I said the same thing at the end of the day. We had a glass of wine and she said, that was the hardest day of acting of my life. And I said, me too.

I'm so glad you said that. But that scene where she tells Audrey, first of all, the facts within it changed slightly throughout the development process because in fact, a person who was involved in in putting the film together with us, was able to almost figure out, in fact, who it was. It was no one connected, it was not a family member. I think it's important to say that. But across so many years of developing a screenplay,

what can often happen, and I've seen this before, a scene will absolutely land on the page, but it will have had lots of people's hands, on it. Gets tailored in. Yeah. And it was really a great scene. It was a really great scene that I would have been more than happy to film.

I knew it too well. I knew the details too well. I knew the spacing. I knew the gaps. I just knew it all too well. And so I just privately always knew that the night before I would phone Tony and that we would just quietly write it. And so I did phone Tony.

phone Tony, he said, it's tomorrow, isn't it? And I said, yeah. He said, are you all right? Sorry. And I said, yes. And I said, just tell me again. And so he taught me through, I said, just tell me again. And then what happened? And then how did you find out?

And because he, Lee never told anyone, but when Tony was writing lives of Lee Miller, the book, he said he felt like, sorry, he said he felt like he was missing something that he couldn't put his finger on something and so he came to Poughkeepsie

to see his uncles John and Eric Lee's brothers and he said there's something I just can't put my finger on is there anything else is there anything that you feel I should know and they said sit down

and then they told him what happened to his mother when she was a child which is so terrible Can you imagine that for poor Tony? And to his knowledge, his father had never known, Roland had never known. And so I said to Tony, okay, let's go through it. And so we wrote it. And I just wrote it down in pencil on a piece of A4 paper.

And then when I went to work the next day, I said to Kate, oh, you know, Tony and I rewrote the scene. She said, oh, great, okay, well, let me print it out. And I said, actually, I'm just going to do it. Because I knew that I couldn't think about it anymore. I couldn't talk about it anymore. It had to be the way it was for Lee, this thing just falling out of her. And because Lee's entire life during the war was giving other people a voice,

we had to give her her voice in that one moment. And it was, I'm not going to lie, it was terribly hard. Do you find a correlation in your own work between the hard jobs and, I mean, it's hard to talk about enjoying a role in the kind of stories you just told about making something. But there's obviously a sense of satisfaction clearly in a role like Lee and producing something like Lee. I mean, I've heard you talk about Mare as hugely traumatic and hard. and psychologically difficult to go through. You don't have to do those kind of roles. There are plenty of roles that aren't psychically costly to an actor.

But I don't know, it feels like you're more than ever gravitating towards the challenge. Yeah, I think I probably am. But then I think I'm probably, it's like I was saying earlier. I think as you get older, I think, oh, thank you very much. I think as women get older, I do think we stand in our power more. And I think we become more grounded. And our sense of belief in how far we can push ourselves

is much more underpinned by all of the experiences that we've had up to that point. And, you know, the thing about being an actor is that, you know, we're not saving lives, we're not on a front line, we're not finding a cure for cancer. But in the case of something like Lee, it felt profoundly important because I did not want for her story not to be told. because were it not for her, we would not have those particular images, that type of image that looks behind the curtain and into the darkest of corners. You know, she wasn't on the front line, she wasn't photographing the soldiers and the bloodshed and the gunfire

and the men. She was looking at the victims, the women and the children. And that type of early reportage photography was something that she was part of pioneering and were it not for people like Lee and Margaret Bulkwhite, you know, would female war correspondents now have earned their place at that table? And it was Lee who was damned certain she was not going to even sit at that table, she was going to take her place at the head of that table. And I feel a bit like that in my career. I feel like, well, well, the men do all this producing and top,

multitasking thing. And I've learned how to do that now. So, well, I might just do that as well. Yeah. There's no good segue for this, but this is why they pay me the big bucks, because Jack Black sent you a video, and I'm not going to let this night end. Does he still love me? Because I'm glad, because I really love him. The feeling is mutual, as evidenced by this video, Jack Black, co-star in the holidays, They sent you this piece of tape. Oh, stop. Let's take a look together.

Jack Black. Hello, Jack Black for Kate Winslet. Hi, Jack Black here. What's up with Titanic 2? Also, what's up with the Spotless Mind? Unbearable weight of the Spot. I can never remember the title. It's a horrible title, but it's a great movie.

And I want to know what's up with the sequel. And also, most importantly, when's holiday to the best? You're the best. How are you doing? Anyway, miss you, love you. Bye. He was... That's so sweet.

He's such a twat. He started my nickname. So I actually have a little bit of a nickname on set. So my nickname is, K-dub. And he Jack started that, what-up, Key-dub? And it's dark, and honestly now, on set,

most people say K-dub or on Lee, shall we ask the kates? Because there were the two of us. Oh, that's lovely. All right, we're sadly are basically out of time, but we're going to end with the happy second fuse profoundly random questions. This is

rapid fire. Are you a dog or a cat person? Dog. I have two. We have two dogs. Digger and Dolly. They're wonderful. Wallpaper on your phone. What's in the background of your phone?

Background of my phone. What is on the background of my phone at the moment? I'm just trying to remember. It's either just Ned or not. No, it's my children. It's my three children. Yeah. I was just trying to think it was all of us,

the whole family, but no, it's the three, yeah, it's my three children. Are you ever mistaken for anybody? The last actor you were mistaken for. I had a really good one once. someone came up to me and said can I just say I absolutely loved you in Elizabeth

another Kate but Kate says that people go up to her and say I loved you in sense and sense of it and you just kind of go thank you very much you don't have the heart to correct it's quite funny good company to be in for both of you

worst noted director has ever given you oh hang on let me just I'm going to get the exact words right that was two actressy one guess that listen to the voice no no no

yeah that was two actressy well what do you want me to do I don't know do it better and finally for happy second fuse an actor that always makes you happy an actor that always make you see them on screen you light up

I mean for a treat Jack Black I mean really Yeah, I have to say. Yeah. Movie that makes you sad. Movie that makes me sad. Francis Lee's first movie is called God's Own Country. And it's a very, very, very small film.

It may have even not had US distribution, actually. But it's a very, very, very beautiful gay male love story. And that makes me... sad because it's very much about a young farm boy in England played brilliantly by Josh O'Connor. Oh, my God. And he's struggling with his identity because he's growing up in a culture that is working farming. And he lives with his two parents and he just can't be himself. And he carries terrible shame and has addiction issues.

And it just, it's a stunning film that makes me sad. And a food that makes you confused. A food that makes me awful. Any kind of, I mean, I don't really eat animals, but... The innards kind of thing, like a... Why do you want to do that? I don't, that is not nice. Yeah.

No. Yeah. That makes me extremely confused. Borderline distressed, I'd say. Okay. We're going to end on the awful? No, we're going to end on thinking positive about this amazing achievement.

This has been an amazing night. Thank you for indulging a little bit of trip down memory lane, but also this very emotional, heartfelt, open conversation about this wonderful passion project. I'm sorry I cried. I keep trying not to do that. I'm really trying hard to hold it together. It's all for a good cause. Everybody here, please spread the good word about this wonderful film.

We is out in theaters on September 27. Give it up one more time. For Kate Winslet, everybody. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

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