Happy Sad Confused - Keanu Reeves & Francis Lawrence (CONSTANTINE Anniversary)

Episode Date: February 17, 2025

Grab your holy shotguns, it's time to celebrate the 20th anniversary of the horror/noir that is CONSTANTINE! Star Keanu Reeves and director Francis Lawrence join Josh to talk all things CONSTANTINE in this exclusive conversation. UPCOMING EVENT! Nathan Lane -- March 20th in New York -- Tickets here SUPPORT OUR SPONSORS! Quince -- Go to Quince.com/happysadco for 365 day returns and free shipping! Check out the ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Happy Sad Confused patreon here⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠! We've got discount codes to live events, merch, early access, exclusive episodes, video versions of the podcast, and more! To watch episodes of Happy Sad Confused, subscribe to ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Josh's youtube channel here⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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It's been cool to have people come up to me over the years and just, you know, share their appreciation for the film and then also asking, so when's the next one? And that's been nice. And I've been asked that question now for 20, no, 18, 19 years. Prepare your ears, humans. Happy, sad, confused begins now. Hey guys, Josh here. Welcome to another edition of Happy, Sad, Confused. This is, I say this a lot, but this one's a really special one. Happy 20th birthday to Constantine. Constantine.

The demented odd-ball horror slash noir from the great Francis Lawrence and starring the iconic Keanu Reeves. So this is one, you know, I hit up Francis and then I hit up Keanu's team and they wanted to come by and chat on the 20th anniversary of Constantine. Almost 20 years to the day that Constantine came out. This is a deep dive into a movie that I know a lot of people love as much as I do. Also, worth noting if you love Constantine, there's a really cool new 4K out there, literally out right now, I believe. So get it on Amazon, wherever you get your DVDs. celebrate like a gorgeous pristine version of Constantine. So Keanu Reeves, guys, I mean, that's always a special treat.

I've talked to Keanu a lot over the years, but he's never been on the podcast. So this was a really great excuse to have him on. I think you guys are going to dig it. Of course, you're going to dig it. You're here for Keanu. Things to mention before we get to the main event, though, really quickly. I'll mention, of course, our Patreon for those folks that love Happy, Seek, Infused, and what I do and want more bonus content, exclusives, early announcements.

merch discounts to all our live events and a lot more is over on the Patreon. Patreon.com slash happy second views to give it a shot. Live events, speaking of those, we've got a lot coming up with one I can announce this already.

If you're a theater fan, Nathan Lane, come on. A legend. March 20th in New York City at Symphony Space. All the information is in the show notes. Get your tickets now. It's selling quite well. So hope to see you guys there. Okay.

So not much more to say before we dive into this conversation, except to say, two of the nicest guys in the biz. Francis Lawrence, someone I've done a lot with over the years through his Hunger Games movies. And he did one of our watchalongs last year. Was it last year? Maybe the year before. And just always, like, such a sweet guy for someone that can handle these ginormous crazy productions. And Constantine, as you'll hear in this conversation, was his first. And Keanu, there's nothing more to say about Keanu.

except he's kind of the gold standard, the nicest guy in the biz, legendary, and I love that he's so passionate about this film that came 20 years ago, and hopefully he'll be returning to the character. As you'll hear on this, we talk a little bit about the future of Constantine as well. So this is a rare treat.

This is kind of an exclusive for Happy Set Confused. We're going to try to do more of these anniversary things. If you like them, if you saw our Galaxy Quest one, if you haven't checked that out, go into the archives just a couple months back, head on Sam Rockwell. and Justin Long to celebrate the 25th anniversary of Galaxy Quest. Now we're doing our 20th for Constantine.

What else do you want to see? What anniversaries are coming up? Mentioned them in the comments below. I'm always looking for good ideas. And these are nice excuses to bring on folks that wouldn't normally be doing press. Okay, enough from me. You want to hear from Keanu and Francis.

Enjoy this. And remember, if you love Constantine, check out the 4K. It's out now. Here we go. Francis Lawrence, Keanu Reeves, and me talking all things. Constantine. Enjoy. All right, guys, does everybody have their holy shotguns? Are we ready to wish

a happy 20th birthday to the beautiful child of the Exorcist in Chinatown? That is Constantine. Kianu's ready, I think. Francis Lawrence is ready. Yes, we've got the director and the star of Constantine Francis, a veteran of the podcast. Thanks for coming back, man. Of course. And Keanu, we've talked many times, but officially, first time on the podcast, it's so good to see you for this just and wonderful cause today. Thanks, man. Thanks for letting me be a part of it. And by the way, I do have the Holy Shotgun,

so I could go grab it and bring it over at some point, too. We might need to enlist that. It's in the room. If there's ever an intruder, that will scare them off in a hot second, I would imagine, right? So look, I mean, a lot to talk about this movie. I mean, I think at the greatest testament to any film, any piece of art, is some amount of longevity.

And here we are talking. about this 20 years later, if anything, the fan base has grown, just first, just broadly speaking, how does it feel to know that there is such a love, if anything, a growing love for what you guys created 20 years ago? Francis? It's kind of wild that I will say it's like, it's a very gratifying thing. I mean, look, it was my first movie and it was something that I think had great team spirit from everybody involved from, you know, me, Keanu certainly, but all the actors of the crew. And we were all believed in the character, the story, the world,

all of it really loved making it. And, you know, it got like sort of a weird reception. I think, you know, we kind of got by in terms of box office and stuff, but a strange reception, and it was a strange movie for the time. It certainly helped jump, start my career, and so very... What do people not like

about it? I forget. I mean, I just think it was, it was just, you know, strange. I don't remember all the sort of criticisms. I blocked it out, so I can't recall. But I think it, you know, I... Yeah, I don't know. I don't, I, quite honestly, I can't remember what the criticisms were,

but it was not like the, like, the most praised movie of all time. I mean, they wasn't completely shit on either, but I will say that just over the years, as I was working on other movies and we'd go on Junkins to Travel the World and all that, everybody just started showing up with Constantine DVDs. And you just felt this love for the movie and probably more so than anything I've ever done. you just feel this, this kind of growing love for it. And then, you know, years later, suddenly, you know, you make these lists of, oh, the movies that Rotten Tomatoes got wrong.

And you're like, you know, the sort of poster child for that movie. And you go, oh, okay. It's a fantastic feeling. I mean, that's kind of what it's about, right? It's not necessarily about making money and necessarily reviews or awards or anything. But it's like somehow making something that in any way becomes like a part of somebody's life and is leading to come out for you kianno i mean do you ever i mean do you look i know you guys had an amazing experience on this and you were very proud and excited about

what you guys had done so then when like it's received and it's got mixed reception at first do you kind of question yourself in your mind like am i off did i is my gauge off or did you just 100% believe it just wasn't connecting okay yeah i mean it's been to the uh it's been cool to have people come up to me over the years and just, you know, share their appreciation for the film and then also asking, so when's the next one? And that's been nice. And I've been asked that question now for 20, no, 18, 19 years. Well, we're going to get to that. It sounds like we're getting closer. But first, I mean, I think there's also a great irony in the fact that, like, you two are notoriously. Oh, I'm sorry, but I knew that I was, I mean, I felt like.

Let's go. Yeah. It was cool. I was so excited to work with Francis and in the cast that eventually was assembled and just, you know, it was such a great experience to make. And so coming out of it, you know, I felt like in having watched the film, I was like the idea of the hope and the ambition to what was actualized to, you know, Francis's vision. And what everyone did on the film, I was very confident in. You know, I really felt like it was a beautiful, exceptional, entertaining film. And so I wouldn't, when it wasn't, however it was critiqued or criticized in terms of the negative aspects of it, it was like, what are you talking about? Well, the thing is, it's like, there's no comp for it. There's virtually no comp for it.

I think that was very unique. I think that's what I loved about it. I mean, and I've done this a lot over my career, which is like I've always been attracted to these kind of like strange mashup hybrid genres. And so this was definitely one. And I think that's the thing is that, you know, no, I don't think anybody had seen anything like it. Right.

I mean, the closest I can think of it, it's a kind of a different thing is like, I always love the movie Dark City, which was kind of a combo of like noir. are sci-fi. This is more, this is noir and horror having a baby. So even that's not quite the right comp. So I can imagine from a studio, I mean, I'm frankly shocking in the studio, and I think I'm so happy they did, but they gave you, Francis, who had a hell of a resume as a music video director, but you had a nice budget for this too. You had like a good, I know. I mean, looking back, I'm sort of like, wow, I can't believe I sort of pulled that off with the studio. I was going to say before, I also find a delicious irony in the fact that, like, you two

two guys are notoriously two of the nicest human beings on the planet. And you have, you make this film that is all about, you know, the occult and heaven and hell and demons. And I'm just curious, have you both always like, I don't know, had an attraction, like, towards the exorcist, the omen, films that somewhat are in this ilk? I was really careful and I of not inviting the darkness into this you know I didn't want to do the exorcist I didn't want to be I lied to that this was a step removed from any kind of Catholic you know I have been I mean of course there's similarities and we're playing in the playground, but I didn't want to invoke, you know, any darkness. Well, there's a sense of humor throughout. There's a wink to Constancy and that's very important.

Your point, I guess I take those kinds of things seriously, and I didn't want to bring that, you know, we're talking about heaven and hell and being damned. But I didn't want to, you know, invite, I didn't want to say the name or invoke anything out there. didn't want any darkness. I felt like I wanted this to be a project of light personally. But I will say I like I, I tend to lean toward, and this was not, I didn't not know this

at the time, but I tend to lean towards stories about very sort of lonely, isolated characters on very solitary journeys. And that also tends to sort of dabble in darkness. That doesn't mean that I lead my life in a dark way. I didn't mind the darkness I'd say that like I'd say that you and I have like are drawn to darkness

not that we think like that's what you need to put out in the world but you know I think there are complexities there that sort of draw us to characters like John Constantine in those kinds of world yeah Francis I'm just talking about you know I totally I totally I didn't want to bring any

fucking devil shit yes No, 100,500s. Yeah. Santeria, like fucking... Exactly. Leave all the bad alone. Yes.

I like darkness of character. Yeah, exactly. Suffering and loneliness, you know, and, you know, outsider. But none of the boogeyman. Yeah. No movie is worth Keanu Reeves being damned to hell. We don't need that. No, we don't want that.

Yes. Talk to me a little bit about. the joining of you too, because as I understand it, Keanu, you sign on, or you're at least attached to it. And as I said, Francis is a first-time director. He's trying to kind of get in on this. And it was a bit of a long road. You were talking to the studio for a while. Right. Did you have a story about that? It was a very long road. Actually, in my office over here, I have framed. I was gifted at the end of the movie, but there's a cocktail napkin from a hotel in, I think, Sydney, Australia when Irwin, who's still my manager, but used to work

with Keanu and the executive at Warner's at the time had gone to go meet with Keanu and had a list of directors to pitch. But basically, I spent about nine months trying to get this job and first I had to convince the exec at Warner Brothers to sort of, you know, like pass that hurdle that I could do it, that I'm responsible, all of that, that I have a vision. I had to meet with all the producers. There's a million of them, including at Kiva. I passed all of that. The last speed bump was going to be Keanu and Keanu had said like I'm open but no music video guys and I was like oh shit right so I watch some music videos they're really good music videos and anyway it's great I have my name I'm like one of I think eight people on this list on a cocktail napkin um that got

pitched to Keanu but anyway Keanu luckily was willing to meet me so he came in from from Sydney having just finished the Matrix sequels and came in and sat down and I filled this boardroom at the company where I did music videos, this boardroom of like this presentation I had built out that had my ideal cast and like images of how I wanted it to look and images of locations and and illustrations of certain shots like like Constantine and hell and all like basically had the whole movie mapped out and we spent about four hours that day and then we met um i think at the chateaumarmont like a few days later and had another like four or five hour meeting and i think we just sort of understood one another and understood each other's kind of

point of view on the character and the world and the story and and all of that and we got along and so it's you know just luckily keanu approved the the the vision and the approach and our our connection but yeah he was he was the last hurdle i had made it so far and and And then, you know, he was like, no music video guys. So, Keanu, what are you, like, you've obviously worked with heavyweights that have amazing story careers behind them. You've also worked with first-time filmmakers. What are you feeling out in that meeting? You're seeing the vision, but is it also kind of a vibe check?

Like, what happened there, what happens generally to earn your trust from a first-time filmmaker? Yeah, I was walking into that room in the presentation and meeting this fine young. man. And so I thought, since I didn't know him, it was just starting with the presentation and the vision, you know, Francis had for the film, which I was like, yeah. And yeah, and just speaking, sense of humor, intelligence, the way he views the world, or actually not the world, but filmmaking and storytelling and what this script needed and was looking to do what his take on the film would be. And so yeah, so I guess to answer your question, it's just what's the director's vision?

How do they imagine the film, you know, and can I be a part of that? Am I a good piece for that? I think part of it too, just to jump in a little is that. that we weren't 100% there yet on the script in our eyes. And so there was like so much potential and we were getting there. So I think part of what we were talking about once we got past the sort of visual side

and you're getting into the story and the narrative and the characters is you start batting around ideas. And so part of testing one another out is like how well do we collaborate? How much do we like one another's ideas? Are we really listening? our ideas jelling are they building off of one another and i think there was a lot of that where like i might throw something out or he might throw something out and it would start to

generate something that was kind of exciting and you'd find new exciting things together and you realize like oh there can be a real collaboration here and which also happened with akiva who was you know really kind of took on the bulk of the writing on the back end of the story and With Amex Platinum, access to exclusive Amex pre-sale tickets can score you a spot trackside. So being a fan for life turns into the trip of a lifetime. That's the powerful backing of Amex. Pre-sale tickets for future events subject to availability and varied by race. Turns and conditions apply.

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even if it wasn't quite there yet and something about that character. Keanu like what can you can you pinpoint a little bit of what about john constantine as a character was so enticing to you back then and still is yeah he's just pissed off at the way the world is it's fun to play pissed off at the world i suppose i fucking love that was good reason yeah yeah yeah being trapped by that and and and having an opinion and i liked his sense of humor I think we leaned into that a little bit. And so I would say that was the thing, you know. And he's fucked.

So I really liked that, too. Yeah. Do you remember John Conson's first line in the film? I think that really sums up the character right there, the opening sequence with John Constantine and what he first says. I don't recall the first line. Francis, do you know?

I'm trying to think it's... He doesn't say much as he enters into this. No, no, he doesn't say any lights. He lights a cigarette. He sort of blicks the one out of the cab. He comes out of the cab. He comes and he lights the cigarette. It's a beautiful overhead. I found one, John.

And he doesn't say anything. He goes down the hall. And it's not. until that's the cigarette down on the table he sees the mirror but i think maybe i'm missed maybe maybe i got it wrong but i know i'm john i'm constantine john constantine asshole this is john constantine asshole that's right to the demon and the girl that's right that's what the line is if you that's right that was one of the first scenes we shot if you don't fall in love with the movie there one day one wasn't really yeah

It was day one. So talk to me a little bit. Okay, let's get into the actual production of the film. You've got a great team around you. Even before we get there, I think we have to address that our Constantine, you know, as I jumped into it, is not the comic book. And is this a big debate? I mean, obviously a lot of it was made about you're not blonde. You're not British.

It's not in London. Is that a big discussion? Yeah, we went Hollywood. I had a black coat, right? Everybody no one was like brown. How dare you? I mean, honestly, what we did was we were like, we loved the spirit of Constantine, the story we came up with,

and Keanu was playing a version of Constantine, but it was not sort of a copy of the comic book version. It was like, we're not going to force him to be blonde. We're not going to force him into an English accent. We're not going to force him into the color of the coat. It's like what's our interpretation of John Constantine? It's interesting because I feel like it came at a good time for you guys to do that because nowadays there's such a worry about the fandom and appeasing them first, the hardcore fans, which I respect. And look, we want we want the fandom to love what the interpretation is.

But I think sometimes you can almost be too beholden and lose sight of the fact that it's a different thing. Yeah. I just think you don't want to be like locked into these parameters of being like so utterly reverent to a fan base for something that, you know, it's. It's like you fall in love with a thing for certain ideas, but to like just copy the, you know, certain cut and exact color of a coat. Right. It's a little weird, but, you know. Yeah. You might want to check out what midnight looks like.

The also, the fact that you set this in L.A., which I know Keanu was important to you, I mean, I think that also lends itself. Again, I go back to the trope that this is. in many ways as a noir, you might as well be, you're closer to Sam Spade or Philip Marlowe than a superhero in this. And I think the fact that you ended up shooting in L.A. adds to that, to that vibe. Why was L.A. important to you at the time, Keanu? No, I think that's a Francis question.

Well, I think we were, one of the, one of the aspects I always loved about it was, was the noir side, was the noir aspect of the story. And so I was a big fan of, you know, all those noir movies, you know, whether it's like third man to you know Maltese falcon to Chinatown all of that and and read a lot as well Jim Thompson novels things like that and so so L.A. was and felt like the perfect spot to do a noir story the sort of modern contemporary noir so we set it in L.A and we actually hired Naomi Shohan who had done Training Day the production designer and I was like you know she'll find us the nixen crannies of an L.A. we haven't seen a lot of and make it feel very sort of grounded and authentic, which he did.

But I think what Keanu did for us, which was good and which was great at the time, because I certainly at the time would not have had the power to do this. You know, this was at a time when when studios started saying like, oh, great, your movie set in L.A., just go shoot it in Toronto. Right. And, you know, and Keanu luckily just made it, I think it was even contractual, but he was just like, it's set in L.A., we're shooting in L.A. and the studio had to set like, okay, great. And I was, you know, like, yes. Actually, one of the two movies I've done that I've actually got to shoot at home, which is nice, but it should have been shot in L.A.,

and we did. This is using your movie star powers for good, Keanu. Well done. It shows in the finished product. I want to give some love to the amazing ensemble around you in this film. We've got Chimmon Ensoo, Rachel Weiss, Shia's fantastic, Peter Storm, Mayor.

Tilda Swinton, amazing. Do you guys recall anything about the casting process? Were any of these folks challenging to get to the studio to say yes to? Were any of them no-brainers? What do you recall about casting the ensemble? I will say that I think pretty much everybody in the cast was on my first choice list, like in terms of people that were in my original presentation. I think the two people that were different were Rachel and Schenberg.

Shaya. And I think the finding the person, the actress, finding Rachel, that was that was really tricky. We met with so many people. And finding that person that you believe had the intelligence we needed, that you believed could be a cop, that somehow also you believed could have something, some magic in them, some sort of connection to, you know, a more spiritual world was really, really tricky because there's plenty of people that could play cops, plenty of people that could play sort of mystical. But finding that kind of both

and a great actress was tricky. And then we found her in Rachel, who was great. Everybody else was like, was there. Like, Pruitt was one of my first choices. Tilda was by far one of my first choices. And I think at the time, I think Tilda was a little less well, known and so everybody was sort of feeling like this might be a reach for the studio so maybe we

sort of fill the cast out a bit before we go to Tilda and I was actually very nervous to meet Tilda because I thought you know she was a very sort of esoteric very smart artsy actor and she's just fucking fantastic I mean she was just an amazing person and so cool and so game and came in and was just like ready to go and also really loved making the movie one of my favorite small moments with Tilda and you, Kianu is just when she kind of leans in. It's almost like she's about to kiss you and instead says, you're fucked. Yeah. I mean, you get the best actors. You get unexpected. Great, crazy. And then the only other thing that I'll say that was a surprise to, Peter Stormair was a bit of a surprise. And it was, we shot him toward the end of the movie.

And he was the last character because sort of the creation of Satan was something. thing that we were struggling with and one of the first things that I pitched to the studio was actually Satan like that looks like the Antichrist and so it was actually sort of a a satanic version of Christ that I think scared the shit out of the studio I think they were just like panicked and it got rejected and then we sort of had to go back to the drawing boards and you know we've seen Satan many many times we've seen the child in the omen we've seen the you know the sort of you know seductive woman. We've seen, you know, De Niro and Angel Heart. There's so many variations. It was like, how can we do something new? And somehow I started thinking of like Fagan from Oliver Twist and sort of

thinking of those characters and then started thinking of Peter Stormair and we sort of riffing. And then the white suit and the black oil and all these different things came up in the weird haircut and the veins and the tattoos and no eyebrows as I recall. And yeah. And the and the sort of the vision for Satan kind of grew. And then I think he ended up getting hired maybe like three weeks before we shot him or something. And yeah, he's one of my favorite characters other than Constantine in the movie. He's just so good in the limited amount of time.

You obviously worked with... It's so weird, with the cigarettes and his affacted haircut and the white suit and so off. Yeah. You obviously have worked with Peter since then. Was that the beginning of a beautiful friendship, Keanu? Yeah. Yeah, very much.

so yeah he's really we were uh it was really fun to work together he's amazing and uh so yeah when he did his series he he gave me an invitation and so that was yeah it was cool to get to work with him again you've you've shot in hell uh by my count at least twice bogus journey and this and we're not even counting devil's advocate which obviously is hell adjacent so i i have I have no analysis here except it's an interesting factoid in your career. You should look up how many Johns I've played. Good point. Hey, I mean, it's over 10.

You're our every man. We project upon the John. Yes, that makes sense. What do you recall, for both of you, Francis, first, your interpretation of hell is really noteworthy in this because it's this kind of parallel world that's really fucking disturbing, like almost like a nuked out. end of days when and how was that in the script or when in the process did you arrive at that no no basically so when i when i signed on um the the hell that was in the script was this kind of

black void with these like sort of piles of bones and like oil slicks and stuff and it was i don't know there was something about it that i felt like um i had seen before so that was going to need a new reinterpretation um and so i thought a fair amount about it and i wanted to come at it sort of conceptually for the movies so there was a few things one was coming at this idea of and this helped a lot was that wherever you are at any given point there's like a heaven version of where you are and a hell version of where you are and that just sort of instantly gave geography that kind of made sense and then was kind of coming up at this time dilation idea of like when you go into hell right it's like you know in normal life time basically stopped so the time in

is kind of eternal, which is why you can go in and spend, you know, an hour and then come back and really like a door is just shut and, you know, a millisecond has gone by. That helped a lot. And then it was basically like, how can we make it as unpleasant as possible? And I started thinking about these, the sort of nuclear test footage, you know, from the bomb tests and that kind of nuclear wind and the blast and seeing that hitting buildings and trees and cars and all of that. And so that's basically what we did

was we sort of said that it's this inferno with this massive almost sort of hurricane nuclear force winds blasting everything with, you know, with ash and heat and fire and flame. And so all those ideas kind of started to stack upon one another. But it really helped to, I don't know, somehow grounded a little bit. And it made it really interesting.

So instead of just like being on set in a black, black void with bones you go oh what's the hell version of the 101 and you know Hollywood and vine that's far more interesting we have certainly haven't seen that right um with you know the 101 freeway and stopped cars and with the weird growth all over it and and from a practical standpoint for you as an actor keanu i mean there's a lot of the i love all there's so many great sets and or practical locations used in this and and that i would imagine is some version of green screen is that something you've you've worked in all matters throughout your career what were the challenging environments the challenging days on a production like this

they built they built like a primary was it I think it was like one major big set and then yeah we built a huge chunk of the 101 oh nice oh was there that's great yeah on stage yeah with all the cars so the big piece of the freeway with all the rotted out cars and And we had some Stan Winston, you know, demons and stuff crawling around. And a big wind machine. Yes. During the Volvo Fall Experience event, discover exceptional offers and thoughtful design that leaves plenty of room for autumn adventures.

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What if they dim out you instead? Okay, don't be silly. You're smart, you're driven, you're going to be late if you keep talking to the mirror. This promotion is yours. Go get them. Starbucks. It's never just coffee. Do any days on set stand out to either of you as challenging, even in a fun way that we're particularly challenging to execute, to get through?

Um, that the, I mean, weirdly, we, Keanu and I were actually just talking about this, that there's a, this scene that he likes, like, right before they go into the hospital, it's Shaya's like making the shotgun shells. And it feels like a relatively simple scene. And, and, and they're working with midnight. And Shaya starts to go off on this idea of using a cross to create holy water and all that for whatever for me to get the sort of performances and, and the coverage right and the feeling right, it was one of those days where I was like constantly. in a cold sweat thinking like nothing was working. And then Keanu just brought it up in another interview we did the other day about this great scene, like loving that scene and all that. I was like, oh, man, you have no idea how much I was sweating. But again, it was not a technical scene. It wasn't one that was like super tricky. Right.

Because I will say like doing hell because we, you know, prevised it and worked it all out and rehearsed it and knew exactly how we were going to achieve it. And Keanu is like so good at being physical. So, you know, to be able to run up on. that car and kind of hit that moment breaking the glass like he's great with that and super game that stuff is kind of just fun it's technical but it's fun sometimes it's those small intimate scenes you know that i find you know the struggle in my head francis is maybe it's one of the few scenes that in a way the character john is not central and his the perspective of the scene of the scene

is split like it's you're not following john through it and but you have me and midnight and there's that little moment of how we're listening to him yeah how you had to choreograph it but also how to tell it i can see how like if you look at the blocking of it how you you know you had you know he had that long table were to do it and then we went in the corner you know you separated us and like that room was like how are we going to make this work? And then I think Shaya's energy, like, he's like, okay, I'm just going to do this. And, you know, we had to, like, watch him do it.

I can see how, like, that, I don't know. I'm just riffing, but there's some. No, that's exactly it. Plus, it's also like what Shia is saying is what I would call. The thing I always worry about in these movies is that supernatural gobblygook, which is he's talking about, you know, the crucifix of wisteria, if dropped within a large body of water, you know, It's like this kind of exposition.

Right. There was like all these different aspects of it were making me kind of panic. Do you, Keanu, do you have a memory of seeing the finished film for the first time? And I don't know if you were watching Dailies as it was going, like a sense of relief of satisfaction that, yeah, as much as the production was fun and rewarding, oh, Francis really delivered? I don't recall, hey, Fred, because we did some reshoots on the film. We did some additional photography. I don't, did I see a cut before we did? I think you did.

I remember, but I don't remember. I imagine it was before we did the pickups. Yeah. I remember doing a screening on the Warner's lot for you. Yeah, that's what I think. And I think you saw it. And then I think maybe we sat down and we kind of pitched to you. We did have some follow-up meetings because especially we had,

we had a bunch of meetings for that post-credit scene where you leave the lighter for Shia. Yeah. Because that was part of the pickups. What was really nice, I will say, because a lot of people think that pickups is a bad thing. And I think it's very strange that in almost every other art, you have a chance to kind of like erase, redo, whatever. But somehow, if you do that in film, it's considered a huge mistake. You know, quite honestly, we had a new president at Warner Brothers. He wasn't the person who originally was developing the project.

and I don't think he actually at the time really believed in the movie. And not everybody knows how to look at Daly's and we put together this kind of 20-minute sizzle reel while we were shooting that got everybody including this guy really excited for the movie and sort of the perception of the movie changed and there was now an internal excitement for the movie.

And they saw the movie and they got even more excited. And there was some things that we wanted to do that they then said yes to. And so they actually were like, you know what? Tell us what you want to do. And it was like Midnight's club. I just wasn't happy with it. I wasn't happy with the extras casting.

I wanted to recast the people in the club and create new vignettes of people and a new Constantine walked through. We had been debating. There's a character, Ellie, that was in the first movie played by Michelle Monaghan. And she only has one line, which was her least favorite line in the movie that's left. But it was like, do we cut her out? Do we shoot some new stuff with her? Like, we were playing around with some different things.

And we got lucky because the studio was sort of like, tell us what you want to do and we'll support it. And we went back in and shot a number of days and reshot some stuff we didn't like and added some story beats, shot this epilogue piece for the end credits of Shia. Yeah, and we did that piece with Rachel, too, back at the, at the, I don't know,

street food, street, you know, like that whole scene about backstory and oh right the diner yeah the diner outside yeah to kind of bring people up to speed a bit mm-hmm were you already thinking in your mind about returning to this character while you were in production were you guys batting around like we're going to do four of these we can we can this could be fun no keanu you don't you don't let that enter your brain while you're having fun with constantine well I'm greedy two three I can't say no. I don't know, Francis, do we talk about?

I don't remember. I mean, I feel like, I feel like, you know, there's times on set when you're having fun and you're kind of loving what you're doing and loving the character that you talk about the possibilities of certain things. But I do remember everybody getting excited even after the movie came out,

even with some of the mixed sort of critical reception of like we would all love to do another one. And there were some initial meetings that were pretty immediate after the release of the first one. And I remember part of it was that, you know, we had been slapped with this R rating. We had followed all the rules for a PG-13 movie and slapped with an R rating, a hard R. I mean, they didn't even, they didn't even give us notes. They gave us nothing to go on. They stopped taking notes in the first five minutes, even though we'd followed the rules, which is a whole other story. But I think we were all thinking we could do this again. And if we knew we were going to get an R,

we could have really made an R-rated movie version. And so I think we were thinking like, let's do it again, but now we can go full on because we're going to get the R anyway. So that was kind of the beginnings of us starting to talk about it. And in... Don't just why you got the R. Francis. So we followed all the rules in terms of blood, sexuality, language, violence, all of these things, we followed the rules. The gray zone with the NPAA is intensity, and that's where they can kind of get you. And this is something we always battle with like Hunger Games, but we now have precedence with them, is intensity, modulation of that.

The problem is they said that the movie's too intense, it's too violent, all of this, and we pointed at Lord of the Rings. And we said, look, Lord of the Rings is far bloodier, far more violent, far more people and creatures die in those movies than in ours. And they said, yes, but those movies are filled with orcs and elves. And people know that orcs and elves aren't real. People think angels and demons are real. And you get an R. No notes.

No talking is out of it. It's like, okay. Wow. I mean, Warner Brothers, you know, there was this post guy. I felt, you know, I think he was really panicked. He was going to lose his job

because Warner's did not want to spend $96 million or whatever the budget was on this for an rated R movie. I think they were thinking they were getting a PG-13. Right. Dono Reeves, supernatural, you know, action thing.

And, you know, they got a rated R. And I'm telling you, getting that R rating also left money on the table. Of course. Because, you know, what happens is there's some kids under 17, and what they're doing is they're actually,

going and buying tickets for, you know, Hitch with Will Smith in it and then coming in and watching Constantine. That's literally the case because Hitch was playing against you. I know. I know. Believe me. I know. It's like, I know.

I know. And some Tyler Perry movie. Before we get the update on where the sequel's at, have you guys talked about collaborating on other stuff over the years or has it only been, has Constantine been the one thing you've discussed? I think that's pretty much. Yeah. That's really it. I mean, I think there's been like some reach out occasionally about certain things, but nothing that we've ended up like spending any real time on together. But, you know, we've certainly have kept in touch over the years and certainly about Constantine. And other things have come up a little, but nothing that we've like spent our, you know, tons of brain power home. Okay. So give me some hope because I feel like there's real hope because this has got the momentum has built the last few years. I've talked to you about this a bit, Fran.

Kianu, you've been out there saying, if there's one character I'm going to come back to, it's Constantine. Akiva said there's a script that was done at the end of last year. Where are we at? Is there a script that you guys like? What's happening? Keanu? Okay, so I'll, so I will say, so like I said, very quickly after the release of the movie, we all decided we would love to take another shot at it. We were trying to come up with some ideas.

And what we have found over the last 20 years is that we have run into a lot of hurdles, primarily with regime changes at the studio. And that means both Warner Brothers and D.C. And because those regime changes have happened, basically the characters, which are sort of a subset of D.C. Vertigo, right, the kind of dark universe, a lot of those characters, including John Constantine, have kind of bounced around. So, you know, we might be thinking of an idea and then all of a sudden, like, NBC decides to, you know, take a shot at John Constantine and do a network TV show.

So there's nothing we can do for a while. And then all the characters go to somebody else and they want to do a show, whether it's for HBO or whatever. And so there's nothing that we can do. So we have constantly kind of come back to try and go and go and go and go and go. And I think really what happened is Kianu going out there, and I think it was Colbert, right? Was it Colbert that, yeah, what could you play? And I think this thing sort of spread and finally convinced some people that, like, have some control like, hey, you know what, maybe this isn't a bad thing.

I think it's the combination of that and the sort of growing cult following of the original film over the years that have got people thinking like, okay, we can do this, even if it happens to be sort of outside whatever a DC plan is for whatever, you know, the other material, that there's a version of, you know, you know, my Constantine, Akiva's Constantine, Kianu's Constantine together that's outside of that. We have finally gotten to the place where we now have the permission to go down that road. And Akiva is writing and Kianu and Akiva and I have been collaborating. And I think we have some really, really great ideas that we're super, super excited about.

And I think we're pretty close on having an object that is really workable. All I know is that we're really excited, and I haven't been this felt this excited about the object and this excited about how real it could be in the 20 years since we made the first one. And so it has a real possibility. What's important to you, Keanu? You've had 20 years to think about coming back to this character. What's most exciting? What's coming up most in your meetings with these guys that you want to see in this character and this story? Just reaffirming just how great it is to collaborate with Francis and Akiva on it.

It's just fun to be in the same room and talk Constantine. Yeah. Just everyone riffing and just, you know, what did Kiva and Francis have come up with and the ideas. I'm aching to play this guy. Will we see, is it back in LA, other returning characters? Can we tease anything? Now, I don't want to tease, I don't want to tease anything. I mean, you know, I would say that, like, I think there's definitely room for some recurring characters, for sure.

I will say what was always important to me, and one of the things that I really loved about the first movie was that the sort of, that the kind of motors and drive for John Constantine were very personal, right? Like, this isn't just the, like, oh, you know, guys got to save the world kind of thing. Like, we had to kind of find a way in to make it a very personal story. because John Constantine, by nature, is actually quite a selfish guy, which is part of what I love about him. So that was kind of key. But, yeah, I don't want to tease too much. I think it's a really fun character to revisit, and there's a great world to sort of dive back into that I think a lot will be familiar. A lot will be different and new and surprising.

but it's it feels sort of it's definitely in the realm of feeling like worthy of you know being the next chapter is the hallway shotgun nearby without spending

okay here we go one last look Keanu you don't have one of these huh? I don't you don't share ownership you don't oh no no no I'm all over

this was actually Keanu's rap gift to me. But this thing, this thing, this is not like a piece of plastic, I will say. Like, Keanu had the prop department make me a real brass,

you know. Oh, wow. It's functional. Yes. No, it totally works. But this thing must weigh 30 pounds. Amazing. It's not easy to hold out with one hand, with your arm outstretched.

Right. That's part of your workout, your daily workout regime. It's very cool. Keanu, can you tell me I'm an asshole one last time before we go, as if you're John Constantine? I'm John Constantine. I need it. I need it.

No. Wish us luck, Josh. Wish us luck. Look, I'm on your team always. Congratulations on making a piece of art that has lasted 20 years and many more to come. And hopefully we'll have another new piece of art to talk about very soon. Thank you. It's good to see you both, as always.

Thank you for the time today, guys. Yeah, thanks. Appreciate you both. Thanks, guys. Thank you. And so ends another edition of Happy, Sad, Confused. Remember to review, rate, and subscribe to this show on iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts.

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