Happy Sad Confused - Kit Harington

Episode Date: September 21, 2026

Kit Harington joins HSC for the first time! Kit rarely does longform interviews, so this is a treat. He and Josh dive into his career, from how he feels about GAME OF THRONES now, to his new adaptation of A TALE OF TWO CITIES, to his excitement about being part of the upcoming HARRY POTTER series. Plus, a check-in on his MCU future, a funny story about how he and wife Rose Leslie act in front of their kids, his nickname for Leonardo DiCaprio, & more! SUPPORT THE SHOW BY SUPPORTING OUR SPONSORS! Rula -- Rula patients typically pay $15 per session when using insurance. Connect with quality therapists and mental health experts who specialize in you at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.rula.com/happy⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ #rulapod Quince -- Go to ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Quince.com/HAPPYSAD ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠for free shipping and 365-day returns. Limited Time Offer–Get Huel today with my exclusive offer of 15% OFF online with my code happy15 at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠http://huel.com/happy15.⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ New Customers Only. Thank you to Huel for partnering and supporting our show! UPCOMING EVENT! 10/13 -- Joe Manganiello in NY -- Tickets here: https://www.92ny.org/event/joe-manganiello-with-josh-horowitz-bloodlines Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Don't you wish you could just hit skip on the worst parts of your life? You know, the same way you can skip an ad? I get it. I'm Siaia and I live in Ice Cove. I've made some questionable decisions that didn't end up the way I planned. And today, I'm still figuring it out. Somehow things usually get worse before they get better. Apparently, that's how I roll.

So bundle up and come along for the bumpy ride. Stream a new episode of North of North Tuesdays on CBC Gem. Have you sorted yourself? Where are you at? Have I what? Sorted yourself. What house are you in? Oh, yeah, yeah, I'm Gryffindor.

You're Griffin. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, obviously. You know, wait, that's the most insulting question. I'm not Slythering, Josh. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Griffin's door. So just back off.

Prepare your ears, humans. Happy, sad, confused begins. Hey, guys, it's Josh. Welcome to another edition of Happy, Sad, Sad, Confused. Today on the show, it's Kit Harrington. Yes, John Snow is in the house talking not only Game of Thrones, but Harry Potter, Marvel, A Tale of Two Cities, and more. Thanks, guys, as always, for checking out the podcast. Remember to subscribe if you haven't already, YouTube, Spotify, whatever podcast platform you're using. I appreciate you guys. And remember to check out

out our Patreon. If you like what I do, if you want early access to what I do, bonus materials, all the sorts of fun stuff that support Happy, Say, Confused, check out patreon.com slash happy, sad, Okay, so main event today, we always love a first-time guest on the pod, and this is someone that's long overdue to have Kit Harrington here. But to be fair, he hasn't really done much in the way of podcast. So I really appreciate him taking the time to do this today. There was a ton to talk about. His new project is a Tale of Two Cities. It's on NGM Plus, and of course, it is based on the Charles Dickens classic, but you know I'm going to talk about Game of Thrones and Marvel and Harry Potter. It all comes up here. And Kit is in a great place in his life now. Look, he's been through it. He's about it openly dealing with addiction issues way back when and coming out the other side and now being a dad, having a great career going, just being happy and well adjusted. It was great to see him in good spirits today and have a great career chat about so many, so many cool projects. So a brief intro today because we're going to get to the main event. I hope you guys enjoy this. Remember to check out a tale of two cities on MGM Plus and enjoy this conversation with me and Kit Harrington. Kit, should we do this? Yeah, just do it. Welcome to the podcast, man. Thank you. It's good to see you. It's been a minute.

And I know you don't do a ton of this kind of thing. So I really appreciate you, like the long form stuff. I think he's the second podcast I've ever done. I appreciate the trust. Yeah. So I'm sorry if I'm terrible. You're going to kill it. You're going to kill it.

I think the first time I met you was briefly for, you came to MTV Studios for Testament of Youth. That's my recollection. You were a little intimidating to me back then. Really? You were. I'm I less intimidating now Now you're whatever I'm like

A kit coming in No I don't know I think you project I don't know What do you think you project into the world Like do you feel like you've You have kind of a Demeanor that you consciously or unconsciously project

I think it's changed Yeah I think I tried to project something But probably around that time Into the world Maybe that came across as intimidating I don't know You were perfectly lovely

Don't get me wrong It was not nothing rude about you But yeah, sometimes, you know, it's an energy thing. And maybe at that time you were in the height of a lot of things. Yeah, I think I was trying to project some sort of gravitas. Is that right? And some sort of some seriousness. And now?

No, I don't really care. I've been too long in the teeth now. We were catching up in terms of like where you're at in life and work. Busy being dead, obviously, the two kids, doing the press stuff for a tale of two cities, which we'll talk about. I also seem to be working quite a bit. I feel like you've been in the city a bit. Have you spent a lot of time in our fair city in New York lately? I was here for a good few months earlier this year,

filming a TV series for Hulu called Count My Lies. And, yeah, we moved the family over here. I was here throughout the whole next run, which is amazing. Oh, come on. Did you jump on the bandwagon? I went, yes, I did. I went to Game 4. I know.

I was so lucky. I was so cheeky as well I had no right to those tickets You knew I had zero right to those tickets Had you ever been to a basketball game before? No Wait wait wait wait wait wait wait

Well maybe like one at the Knicks Like previously but I was not You know I was I was passing people in the street on the way there That were like die hard Knicks fans Yeah crying And I did there was a bit of guilt That I was getting to go

But I now Now you get it Consider myself You better Quite a serious Knicks fan Did you know what was going on Did you know the basic rules of the sport? Yes. By the end I was really clued up. Yeah. No, I'm starting to resent you.

Now I'm starting to get angry. I resent me too. I would resent me. No, not at all. What is your relationship to New York? I mean, it's like I always feel like the Twin Cities, London and New York. I grew up in New York. I love London. I feel like folks, I don't know, there's a symmetry there in some ways. I find it, I love it. I find it, I mean, sounds like the most obvious thing. I find it quite intense. Yeah. Like I, it's about three-notes. is faster than my general pace of life. Okay. And so I can deal with it for a few weeks,

but then after that I find that my, I'm an anxiety-ridden person anyway, my anxiety is up. Yeah. And I have to, and then questioning why that is, and I go, well, maybe it's the city and then I step out and I'm, okay,

but I love coming here. Yeah. And it has a kind of, like, it gives me a fix, but I do also love leaving. I don't think you've done theater here, have you? You've done so much theater in your life. No.

Is that not a, I mean, again, for the reasons you just described, maybe it's not a priority, but still, there's something about bringing your talents here on the stage. It would be exciting, no? There's been times, and there's been times there have, I've done a show in London that, you know, there's been talk of it transferring or coming to New York. I've nothing against Broadway. I would love to do some Broadway or off-Broadway or whatever. I think it is now, it's a practical element for me.

I have two young kids. They're in school. It means uprooting everyone for a long time. It's difficult. It's difficult to factor that, to factor that in nowadays. Yeah. Did you come to the States a lot as a kid? Like, what was your relationship to?

No, my first, the first time I ever came to America or was to New York. And I did this trip down the East Coast. I was 18 and I came by myself and I went New York. it's not very long trip New York Washington Philadelphia or New York Philadelphia Washington Sure sure sure sure You've got some major landmarks out of the way

Yeah Yeah Some of the Yeah and it was It was amazing I remember feeling like I'm walking onto a film set I fell in love with New York then Yeah

But yeah it's all a bit In the misty part of my memory Were you watching our silly sitcoms our silly pop culture, were you as much engaged with American pop culture as stuff back home? Yes. I think it sort of was

limited in my childhood to the Chicago Bulls. So there we go. So I am a NBA fan. It is in my blood. The Chicago Bulls, what was my childhood memory of America, the U.S.? Chicago Bulls, friends.

Sure. Of course. Yeah. and like and maybe that's it I'm like just vague you've signed up America in the best way I'm not whatever the word is in America file I'm not like

yeah but I remember it feeling like Rome like like being the center of the world sure and and and I think if you were kind of born and raised in the West like I was

yeah it held a kind of mythical place Yeah. The reason that you've come in today is I was complimenting you before. A Tale of Two Cities is an ambitious piece of work as you would hope it would be based on the source material. This is on MGM Plus. Where were you at when this one comes around? I mean, I would imagine like it's often as much about like where you're at in your life, what you're looking to do lifestyle-wise as the material sometimes. Did this catch you at the right time in terms of what you were looking for? This was a long process. About 10 years ago, my particular. producing partner and best friend Dan West and I we did a show called Gunpowder right another period piece and that was the first thing we produced in our company and after that was done you know we started knocking around other ideas and and it was quite quickly that we landed on the idea of doing tale of two cities because we just felt it had not that dickens we love dickens and we were both big fans of the book and

but it felt like every Dickens that there was had been trotted out almost yearly but Taylor 2 Cities haven't been done since the 80s it's funny I was thinking back to this it's like I can't actually think of like a definitive recent or even ancient kind of depiction of it and not a successful depiction of it it's a difficult one to to adapt there's a reason perhaps yeah

but it's the reasons it was difficult to adapt we isolated to being okay, you have these two central characters around this central character of a female central character and they're meant to be identical. Right. They're doppelgangers. Right.

And that's always like, pose the question of, okay, do you have the one actor playing the same parts? And I think that never works. Right. Not tempting to you? Because a lot of actors would be like,

oh, not tempting at all. Really? Double the number of days. I'm thinking practically. And just like my ego is big enough. I don't need to play too much. Let Tom Hardy do all the double roles.

I just think it never works. I think it's a really hard thing to pull off and I don't think it works. So there was that one reason we felt it hadn't really been done. And Dan sort of posed the idea that you only need these guys to be similar enough. Yes. That in a court of law you can throw up a reasonable doubt

and that towards, without spoiling it towards the end, there can be a moment where they get confused for one another. Right. And the other problem with it is it's bilingual, that you've got the tale two cities. It's French and English. But we felt that now audiences have a much greater capacity for reading subtitles.

So we felt that this was the time to do it. And once you get past those two issues, the story is fantastic. It is a sweeping romance and the backdrop of a bloody revolution. It's got all of the elements to make a great entree. entrancing impulsive period drama

and then you've got to try and sell the thing and is that difficult period dramas are difficult because people love them once they come to screen people really enjoy the period nature or something but they're they're difficult to get off the ground at times and that's why I took a little

beat but thankfully you know we had a wonderful company called Federation and then MGM plus came in and and they believed in it. It's got a scale. It feels like it's a massive production again as you is something like this would demand. Yes. I mean, it sounds like gunpowder might have been a shift for you in terms of like realizing like to have some agency and in crafting a production.

Yeah. Do you get something more out of something like this like gunpowder where you have a seat at the table? Yeah. I love it. And I'm not interested particularly in, when you're doing your actors deals for things, occasionally they're like, you'll be an EP.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I'm not interested in that. Because I feel like if I'm an exec producer on something, I should be an exec producer on something. So I'm only interested in that regard, coming in as an exec if I'm actually at the table. And with Dan and I stuff, we're there from word go,

building it from the ground up. And learning our craft as producers as we go. I'm still very green, I think. But yeah, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I find that I am unsatisfied. Sometimes, this is very greedy of me, but I'm unsatisfied just being an actor on something. The famous adages, they, they, they, they, what they pay you to wait, right? That's what you're being paid for, like, I'm bad at waiting. I'm an impatient, restless person.

So I find myself on sets muscling in and trying to make directorial decisions. And I have to stop myself. And that's why I directed something recently because I was like, if you really want to do it, you should go and direct something. But the producing is part of that. Like I'm really interested in that creative producer side, which says, okay, this is an amazing story. Can we build something out?

But can I ask you? Because you mentioned directing. I saw the trailer for it. I don't think it's available online yet. like you did a short with um among others great harry melling yeah i just saw him in a film at one of these festivals he's just so talented he's amazing um did that scratch that itch that kind of like ignite something of the under directing side of things like what did you get out of that experience it absolutely did yeah interestingly and it also gave me a new appreciation for actors

because until that point i'd be like i was like acting is actually not you know probably the easiest element of filmmaking but i i then being on the other side of camera and watching what Harry was doing and Kieran was doing the two actors we had not in the short you know I would come in and I give some really crap simple piece of direction like okay that was perfect but could you try it with a bit of vulnerability or a bit more just up the vulnerable and watching them take this bad dialogue I've written and and upping the vulnerability in it and just it totally changing and going and knowing that I knew how to do that myself

made me appreciate the art of acting but the the the directing side I just it was explained to me like this and I thought it was it was this is a really good way of putting it Miguel Sopochnik who I worked with on Game of Thrones and has become a good friend guided me through it and he said what you are is a fishing net yeah you put all the best people that you can find around you yeah and you catch their ideas as they go through. And I love that because I love being at the center of all these ideas coming to me and going, that's good, I'm not sure about that.

Let's work on that one and just like twiddling here and there. Yeah, no, directing is kind of like saying yes and no to a thousand options essentially. And then that's how you're finding your own voice, but it's foolish to think you have all the answers. Like the best is to. And knowing when to trust in someone else's thing. Yeah. More happy, say, confused coming up. You've got your favorite blanket, a freshly poured drink, and a cold case burning a hole in your streaming queue.

You're not just watching true crime. You're running the investigation from the comfort of your couch. Welcome to Murder She Watch, the podcast where we recap, dissect, and slightly overanalyze some of the best and craziest true crime documentaries on our favorite streamers. Did the spouse do it? is the shady neighbor wearing leather gloves in July? Why did this guy agree to be interviewed in this documentary? We ask the tough questions that you're often just screaming at your TV. So every week, we break down the twists, red herrings and absurd documentaries that have kept you up all night.

It's high drama, cozy vibes, and absolute couch detective energy. Grab your throat blanket and hit subscribe. Search murder she watched wherever you listen to podcasts and let's solve this. thing together. From the parents behind law and order comes a mystery the whole family can enjoy. Patrick Pickle Bottom, Everyday Mysteries. Step into the whimsical world of Patrick Picklebottom, a precocious 11-year-old, with a love for reading and an uncanny ability to solve mysteries. Inspired by the beloved children's book of the same name, this podcast vividly brings

Patrick's tales of deduction and everyday adventures to life as he unravels baffling enigmas, and solves clever cases. Patrick Picklebottom Everyday Mysteries is perfect for kids and is just as entertaining for grownups who love a good mystery. The whole family can listen now wherever you get your podcasts. So back to this production, from a character perspective, from an acting perspective, what's intriguing to you about Sydney? Kind of like an archetypal anti-hero in some ways.

What do you get out of it from an acting perspective? I think he fascinates me. I mean, there's so much about him that I relate to personally. Like he's gone through or he's going through. He's an addict. He, what I really love about that character is he is a lawyer and always two steps ahead of everybody else. And he's two steps ahead of the reader or the audience. And that's the thing he struggles with is that he's incredible.

smart and almost too smart for this world which makes him very cynical and nihilistic but I think the way I approached him and what I felt was the right way to approach him was at this point in the story he is the only thing that keeps him going is the booze or or being in a courtroom and in walks this incredible entity of Lucy Manette and he suddenly gets a new belief in life. The trouble is that he approaches it from an addicty standpoint. So he looks at her to be his fix, that she's going to fix everything for him.

If they just are together, then that's going to be the thing that solves him rather than coming into it as an equal, partnership. Now, I won't spoil the end for anyone, but the end is one of the most iconic Yeah. Um, endings in any literature. And if you are watching the show or going to come watch the show, please follow it through to the end.

Because the end is beautiful. Um, but I think his realization at the end is about, um, I don't know how to say it with that. I don't want to spoil it for anyone who, who hadn't read the book or, um, the book or but it's about um he he does feel completed in what he's he's doing the choices he's making i mean it's interesting to hear you talk about you know parallels that you feel the character and you've been honest and open about dealing with your own issues in the past addiction etc i mean is that scary for you to kind of like go to characters that share some of that stuff that you've reckoned with yourself because i could you could go another way like i don't want to

fucking even think about that side of myself i i love it i i i really I realised I love it. Yeah. You know, I did a couple of seasons on industry. I'm filming that as well at the moment with a character who has to delve into that stuff as well. And I realized that it's a way of getting, it's now fun. I now get to have fun as Sydney sozzled in a bar or Henry, you know, doing lines or like, whatever it is.

Yeah. to um i get to like really uh exercise something right without the consequences that you want to do without consequences of drinking or whatever it is you know so um yeah no i i'm i also think that you know i have this belief that any good character is addicted to something yeah i think it's built into all drama well it's built into all humans like we're all we all have our addiction some manifest they just manifest in different ways I mean I suppose some personalities just were wired differently some have more addictive personalities generally yeah so there's always it's you call it what you want they're super objective whatever it is

there's something that they desperately want and I I look at that almost as from an addict's standpoint like what is he what is he addicted to yeah you know it's usually pretty clear it's a person or a thing or a objective or you know he's hunting the truth or he's addicted to himself yeah like whatever it is like it's there and then you've got your kind of your core kind of principle to the person that's interesting it must like kind of clarify your purpose as an actor like once you kind of walk in like what is the reason for this person to get up and you know out of bed yeah they driving towards it kind of like answers a lot of questions yeah it does and i often find if i'm reading a script and i can't see it i'm like i don't know how to play this

yeah right yeah i don't know how to play this i don't know what this person wants yeah And there's probably something either wrong with the script or it's just a part that's not for me. Right. All right. Since we have the luxury of time, if you'll indulge me, let's go back a little bit. So, Young Kit, I was just asking this to, I asked to a lot of guests, like extrovert, introvert, where it was it clear very early on to those in your friends and family that, like, you were going to be a performer? Or did that come wait? I think he probably was, I think definitely extrovert.

Yeah. I would describe myself still and then as anxiety-ridden extrovert, maybe, I think. I think I was quite loud and verbose as a kid and me, me, me and look at me and wanted attention and enjoyed attention. I had a very busy brain always and wanted to be heard a lot.

So, yeah, I think, I'd like to say I'm I'd like to say I'm introverted but I'm not I'm extroverted but incredibly socially anxious at the same time how did anxiety manifest when you were a kid when you were a teenager like in what kind of situations

like I I I is a teenager like I'm very um I you know I think that I would I would crawl off into a into a cupboard and hide This is a metaphorical cupboard? No, no, a real cupboard. If I was in a social situation, I would go like in a party.

He's in his cupboard. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I would often be found like just kind of like breathing. Because it all got too much. Yeah. But I think I'm one of those, whatever that is, I'm one of those. But I was, as far as being an actor or creative, I always sort of

assumed I actually have a distinct memory of wanting to be a journalist and then I looked at some old school stuff and like age 12 I'd written and said what do you want to be when you grow up and I said an actor

just really clearly and I think that was my A plan and B plan yeah my A plan is actor but my like that that is incredibly who becomes that how does that happen to make a life out of it and what else am I interested in I'm interested in journalism yeah so that was kind of my my kind of be plan in some ways what were you did you have posters on the wall were there

all icons what do you know iconography it was like Bob Marley yeah Dylan sure are there any acts I'm sure like I'm sure why am I for why am I drawing on the name of Marlon Brando. Of course. Like it was all big, my whole bedroom was covered. Every inch of it was covered with artwork or posters. And they were all posters of quite, of icons, really. Yeah.

Both in the acting and the music world. Were there, did you have a genre of film you gravitated towards that were you into kind of like, you know, genre stuff? Obviously, you end up working in a lot of genre fair. Was that your bag as a kid too? Not really. No, no, it wasn't. I always liked a horror movie though.

Yeah. And I still do. What's your good? This big year for horrors. Have you got up with obsession? I loved obsession. I thought obsession was brilliant. It's exactly the type of horror I like as well.

And they were both, the two leads in that were both incredible. Yeah. I think she is, she, he is well, but she, there was something about her that was just, that was a magnetic performance yeah I love that film I think have you done horror I'm biking have you I'm trying to think I did I did a very long long long time ago I did um I did a movie based on the video game oh silent Hill Silent Hill Silent Hill revelation 3d that old chestnut that other than that that sign when you I did one I did um baby Ruby okay was a kind of

interesting, um, it was a lovely kind of little kind of horror thriller I did. That's what we talked about. That's what we talked about in Toronto. Yeah, it was that. We got there.

We were trying to remember when we last. Baby Ruby. Yeah. Um, were you, Silent Hill, gamer? Clearly not.

You couldn't come up with the name of it. Were you a gamer? No. Uh, no, I, I, no,

not a gamer. Not a gamer. I don't know why. I, I feel like I, I played, the only game I've ever played, really,

was Mario. car and Diddy Kong Racing and some Tekken Sure And then recently the Harry Potter game That was the that was the thing I played

Amazing We'll get to that obviously It's not Grand Theft Auto Everyone's going to be talking about Grand Theft Auto No but I do want to play that I've seen it I've seen it Advertise it

It's going to be bigger than any movie this year You know like how much It's a gazillion dollars Brilliant video of these guys There's a video on YouTube With these guys like pretending they're in. Have you seen those? It's so good because of how real the graphics are now.

Yeah. There's videos of like people actually like walking across the street like and then beating someone up and it's brilliant. Amazing. More happy say confused coming up. There are vampires out there. They're beside you in the darkness but what people don't understand is that they're not monsters. They're just going to work.

Living there. lives. But we are a dying breed. Those who came before me, they are fearful and are not content to sit back and just disappear. And they'll do anything to fix that. From the creators of Parkdale Haunt comes Woodbine, a podcast about monsters, dreams, and changes, those you want and those you never saw coming. The final season begins this fall, distributed by realm. The tutors were probably the most scandalous dynasty in British history. Names like Henry VIII and Bloody Mary are still known today. This season on Vulgar History, we're spilling the historical tea on the messy Tudor era. We'll get into the Anne Boleyn of it all, figure out who really wrote Shakespeare's plays?

Was Elizabeth really a virgin queen? And why was Henry the A's the fucking worst? Listen to Vulgar History wherever you get podcasts. Okay, so was there a performance you saw on stage or a film that really made an impact on you growing up that kind of cemented the cause? Yeah, there were a few. there was I always admired

Decap I always loved what he did but it's from a kind of like big movie style perspective like watching him and Romeo and Juliet was a big formative thing I've never heard him refer to as Decap Decap, you never heard Decap?

No at first I was like I don't know what the fuck he's talking about and then I got it. You don't call him Decap? It's just Leo, just Leo. That makes you sound like I know him Decap sounds like he's a rapper Like what's the Decap? Yeah

Decap So what were the Decap Performances again? Romeo and Juliet Of course Yeah And you're gonna have to help me out With names of things

You're okay Gilbert Great What's he in Gilbert Grape? We got you Yeah yeah yeah And what was the one he did Where he was a basketball Basketball Divers

Yeah again basketball's the theme today You are a diehard basketball fan Turns out I was Yeah Turns out I was Have you met Decap ever? No he walked past me once Yeah

and I sort of half smiled and he half smiled at me and I always regret not doing the full smile bother him yeah you know I mean but I always regret not shaking his hand next time just be like yo decap

what what up decap decap Dickhaar over here okay so that's an inspiration it kicks in

I mean war horse is the game changer I would assume is that the one that really kind of puts you on the map in terms of... I mean, that was my first job. I had my trajectory out of drama school was unreal. Like, I got Warhorse while I was in my third year of drama school, so I knew I was leaving, and two weeks later,

I would start rehearsals to be the lead alongside the puppet. It's a much more important lead in the National Theatre, our great theatre in London. I still, to this day, don't think I've ever jumped higher than when I got that role. Right. There's never anything like that first moment, right? Yeah, just to be, just to be spear carrier number three at the RSC would have been enough,

but to be the lead on the Olivier stage, people work their whole careers to do that. And I walked out of drama school into that role. And it's a, that show was a remarkable, I mean, I didn't see, I didn't see that again. Did you see it on stage? I saw it here in New York eventually, but I mean, it's a historic production, obviously. It was still, it still lives in my memory as being one of my, like, my all-time great jobs because the audience reaction during it was astounding. And you got to feel it and witness it.

And it really was, it was true, truly wonderful theater. Did you go up for the Spielberg film? Was that even in the cards? I did, I think. And I, and, and I didn't, I didn't, obviously didn't get it. But I remember like leaving Warhorse. And at the time, you know, especially my dad thought that was mental.

He was like, why are you leaving a job? And I was like, no, I have to, I've been doing it for a year. And then a lot of stuff kind of came in. I had American agents by that point. And so, you know, the War Horse, the movie was happening. But then Thrones came along. Yeah. And so I was in, I was in that world.

Was there a close call before Thrones in terms of like, were you going up for major? I went War Horse, then Thrones. I auditioned for Thrones. while I was in Warhorse. So that's what I mean. I went boom, bum, bum. Crazy. But I remember there being some like,

so everything had gone well. And then I remember like, I was probably very hubristic with it. And then I remember going up for a film called Arthur and Lance a lot. Right, which never happened. That was never happened. But I assumed, oh, now you go theater,

major TV, Hollywood film. Of course. That's how it works. You learned like everybody else some humility along the way. They're going to be ups and down. And then I realized that and then that never happened. And I was like, oh, I remember that being a bit crushing. Yeah.

Yeah. It's good for me that didn't happen. Good to learn that at some point for all of us. Right. So look, Thrones obviously can take up an entire conversation. But like, it's such a huge part of your life. And for personal and professional reasons, I would imagine. I mean, when you think back to, I mean, can you kind of like slice it up into different periods of time?

Like, do you remember the first. year or two when it just exploded out into the world and and just how that changed your life in practical terms and and how you reckoned with it like yeah I can and I can't like I think it was a slower build than people sort of remember really I mean it really exploded after season three okay but it back back at the start it was a obviously a big show that they were pouring money into and it had done well but it was still a kind of fringe show people were like heavy into breaking bad I think sure and Game of Thrones is the kind of upstart one coming along here yeah

but no I I sort of always assumed that it would never get another season until like until we got to like season 5 where where it kind of was inevitable it was going to carry on but I um I just I just I played each season like each season and and but I look back and we talked earlier about sort of like putting up a front or like I think I just look back and I just really all of this, all of the fresh stuff was very alarming. You were by necessity were playing a role. You were playing this is how you're supposed to be. Yeah. In this kind of environment.

I'm really cool. I'm really collected. I know what I'm doing. And inside I want to go and stand in the cupboard. In the cupboard. Yeah. Well, by nature. And you've talked about this like that.

role also that wasn't just the show it was the role and everything that people put upon you as that character yes yeah and you had this like bifurcation this like this connection with like I'm not that guy no one's that guy but I'm certainly not that guy I'm sorry yeah well this it's it's weird you like I think that happens to a lot of actors and but especially if the if the role is so so seen so known by you know it that and you look like it the whole time, people do sort of, Yo, John Snow! You got that, you got. Like, you get, you get a lot of that and you're like, hello, actually, I'm just to, you know, I'm trying to get my coffee. Yeah. But you do, yeah, there's a, there's a, there's a weird personality split that happens.

Do you still get the, yo John Snow's? Do you still get the, I know, you know nothing? Yeah. Yeah. you've reconciled that you're going to hear people scream, you know nothing until the day you die. And I hope I do. Yeah?

You've come to that. You've come to that. Because, again, I've talked to many actors that have these iconic roles associated with them. And it's a journey. There's that period of time probably where you feel like, really today. Like, yeah. I could use the day off from it. And then you kind of go to the other side and become appreciative, hopefully.

I think I need to do some other stuff, like, outside of it. And it's been a number of years. And I've done all these. these different things. Some have been seen more widely than others. But I've done enough of them now that I don't just feel defined by this one.

Like that character. Yes. And of course I'll always be asked about him and I'll always be yelled at in the street hopefully. Well, I won't always. There'll be a point where people aren't. And I'll be like, well, what happened? What happened?

But as long as they're yelling it in the street, this is the amazing. I genuinely find this amazing that like, I'll get like a 20 year old yell it and I'm like you just watched the show and he's like yeah man just came and you're like that's wicked

it's still got a life it's still people are still watching it that's amazing in our in our world now where things are like onto the next yeah the stickiness of watching that still that's incredible yeah um I rewatched that like famous table read of the final episode where you legit didn't you you deprived yourself of knowing

the end until that moment yeah To this day, I can't remember whether that was laziness or what. Like, I don't know whether. I think I didn't. I intentionally didn't because I wanted to hear it. It's amazing to watch you react in real time and connect with Amelia across the table. I mean, do you remember what, I mean, I guess we can see it on your face. Well, I remember telling everyone stupidly when I walked in, I was like, I haven't read it.

I was like, I haven't read it because I want to hear it. And then they were like, oh, you see all the BTS guys going, okay, well, let's get this footage. Right. And all the focus was on me. like what the you know but I yeah it was um but there's something sweet about seeing like you're authentic yeah like sadness and reckoning everything to us by then it was like the characters were everything to us and the and the story was everything so a gut punch like that as gut punch as it was for everyone else was kind of even yeah even bigger for us I think so

the the famed spin-off is not happening but you went down that road you you you I mean, it sounds like you went down for a while. How close did it come to happening? I don't know. I think we developed it for, we were developing it for two years or so. Yeah. And I still think there's a world in which something could work.

I wouldn't have gone into it in the first place if I didn't. But I was very insistent at the start. And they were as well, HBO and George, of like, if this doesn't, if we didn't find the right thing, let's not do it. Right. It's much, much better we don't. And after a little while of thinking about it, we,

I kind of was me when, like, I think, I think this isn't quite the right time. Yeah, you want to either feel it. You don't want to go into that. Yeah. And I'm right. I think it was right, because I, like we discussed before, I've gone and done all these other things, and now I feel more comfortable with that character and that world again

in where it sits in my life. Totally. In terms of finding opportunities during that run, was it tough for you to kind of like, because that was a big job. It took up a lot of just space in your life. In retrospect, when you look at the things that you took, the Pompeys, et cetera, like trying to find the best material possible, I don't know, how do you look back at that, kind of like what you were prioritizing and what you were able to accomplish in those years?

I think you always have, during my 20s, during the game. Thrones years you had six months on yeah and six months off and and within that six months off window you had to find something that actually fit in that yeah time and that wasn't other TV because you weren't allowed to do that right so it was either a play which you did a lot of or it was a film and I'm really I'm always proud of everything I've done genuinely yeah there are some that works and some that maybe didn't but they all taught me something.

And I have distinct, wonderful memories of Pompeii. And I think there are a lot of people who come up and go, I love Pompeii. Great. And probably a lot of people who don't. That's fine. That's fine. But I sort of, I have fun memories of it.

But you had to fit something, you had to find something that fit into that window. And that's not always, like, easy to find the kind of, it was all big learning experience, really. Yeah. But I was sort of like a kind of weird hero character then. Right. Well, the theater especially seems interesting.

And I'm telling you, I wasn't able to see you do like Dr. Faustus and True West, which is one of my all-time favorite productions. True West was wonderful. And you did one of the alternate, you did the alternating roles. No, we didn't. No, no, no. No, no. I was Austin and Johnny.

Johnny was Lee. Yeah. Special piece of material, you know, I would imagine. Like to just like own the stage with one other actor with that rich material. Not to link it back, but I'm going to link it back to tell two cities here. because I think there is a link between those two pieces. And I think it's always interesting when a writer does this. But in True West, Sam Shepard, both those characters are him.

He's clearly split his personality between the writer, the sozzled writer, and the crazy guy's trying to put. He split his personality and he's writing two versions of him, Sam Shepard. And Dickens does the same. in the interlety cities is that both Darnay and Carton, Dickens at the time was having an affair with a younger woman. He had many affairs, I think, but at the time he was really infatuated with this younger woman. And I believe that Sydney and Darnay had two versions of Dickens.

Makes sense. There's the sozzled, shameful, guilt-written nihilist side, which is his side, thinking about him having an affair in this younger woman. And then there's a heroic kind of French-aritalist. aristocrat Darnay, who he sort of wants himself to be. And I think there is, I think there's something fascinating in, in Tennessee cities that it's, it's two versions of Dickens he's writing. That's why they're doppelgangers.

I mean, if you wrote the Kid Harrington biopic, it would be the extrovert and the guy in the cupboard. That's the, they're both him. Hey, there's my next film. Right? I'm giving you some source material. The film's just in the cupboards. Cheap.

Small sets. you end up in the Marvel universe in an abbreviated fashion who knows what the future holds but when you look back at that like how did that how was that presented to you was there a full plan for your character that Kevin Feige

presented when it came up I met Kevin for a general a while before that came up and he was he said that we really love to find something and then and then it yeah it was presented as in like this is you know how they do in the Marvel universe. They'll throw a character in and then see if it goes anywhere or see if like they introduce

him here and, and in the end it didn't. And I think that that's always the way of things is that they're sort of testing to see if there's something they want to play with. And there was always the idea it might. I think he's a really interesting character. Totally. He's one of it. He's a fascinating, talking of addiction and all that, I think there's something fascinating to

play with the Black Knight. And I felt this from the start that the Ebony Blade is one that he uses and then gets bloodlust. And I think there's an interesting story of someone going from hero to villain. Right. There. So, you know, anyone from Marvel watching. But I do think it's a fascinating, it could be a fascinating story, but they got so much. They got a lot. Yeah. But, I mean, there was talk at some point, like this Midnight Sun's idea. Was that ever communicated to you that like you would be in a film with rehearsalah? No.

No. Yeah. But there were all sorts of ideas that might but nothing solid ever kind of communicated. Were you ever, there was one rumor even I think

that predated that like you were on the list for Batman. Every actor plays Hamlet or Batman at some point and they're like, I love these lists. I love these lists of like, it's a good list to be on. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I mean, as far as you know, were you on a list? I think I met someone early on, but I think it was like, when I heard it was Robert Pattinson, I was like, yeah, of course. Let's see you go for. But you did have a meeting, it sounds like. I can't, you know what? How do you forget that you had a meeting about Batman? No, I genuinely, I can't, I feel like I'm trying to wrap my brain. There was some meeting in L.A. at some point.

You have a lot of meetings about that thing. Sure. I would in my diary wrote, I met about Batman today. Maybe this is why I didn't get the job. So I was this job for again? It's what? You lost his parents as kid. That's horrible. That's a lot of trauma. God, that sounds like a great idea. You guys should stick with it. You should stick with that. That guy. You mentioned, we mentioned at the outset, industry. That's got to be a gift to jump into something like that. Were you a fan of industry before you joined? I loved it. I still love it. I think it's, I think it's brilliant. It's one of the funnest jobs I've ever done. Yeah. It has a really very very very.

fond place in my in my heart and I'm still filming it sort of now like we're in the final season right it's the final season right we know that for sure I guess yeah and and I think it's gonna be cracking yeah I I I I'm making con I think that they are just insanely talented writers yeah much much smarter than any of us it must be the security also in like jumping into something that like you already know works and And just like your job is just to fit in and not muck up the rest of it in a way. But that's a big duty though. Like I remember coming in and especially as a fan of it and they had done two seasons

and I came in in the third and I was like, I could ruin a show that I like. Because I'm coming in sort of muscled my way into this show. Well, I didn't quite, but I got invited in but also was thrilled to be there. But like, it was like, I could really mess this up. Right. And that would be horrible. That might be a career ender for me personally. I like if I come into a show I like. So actually the pressure was much higher. Interesting. That makes sense. Yeah. Well, now hopefully you're not going to mess up Harry Potter because I know that's dear and dear to you. Very dear. Like this is legit. You are hardcore Harry Potter all the way. I am. Yeah, I am. And I'll tell you why, which is that I was when I was a kid. And then I found a place for it as an adult. And I know a lot of people have this, which is that I listen. to the Stephen Frye audiobooks. And I do that because I'm, I have a, my brain is incredibly busy,

especially at night. And I've always found going to bed very difficult. Like, and my brain doesn't turn off. And when I got sober, that got especially bad. And, and so I started listening to Harry Potter audiobooks, and now they're the thing I listen to every night and they just help me. So they,

they have a very special place in my heart. And when I knew they were doing this show, I think that's a brilliant idea. I think they can really delve into it further than the films did. And I think I'm fully supportive of it. And then got a call to be in it. And that was just a very simple kind of, yes, please.

And this character, Gilder Royal Ackhardt. Now, we talk about who they're, what they're addicted to. He's addicted to himself. Right. I mean, a very vain character. He's just a tiny step to my left. it's not a it's not a hard finally we're seeing the true kit this is yeah it's just there all I have to do is just take a 4% to the yeah and I'm there have you started to get into kind of like

the look like how to kind of approximate um yes and and I'm going to say very little about anything because it's um it's highly secretive um but uh but yes it's I'm I'm engaging with that as we as we speak so that's going to be a trip for you like to step in on to those sets in that world, even for like, yeah, I've been on Game of Thrones, I've been on Marvel sets, like, that's going to be crazy. Yeah, I think so. I think so, especially as I'm a bit of a nerd for it. And, and I love it like I do. And have you sorted yourself? Where are you at? Have I what? Sorted at yourself. What house are you in? Oh, yeah, yeah, I'm Gryffindor. You're gonna, yeah, yeah, yeah, obviously. You're like, that's the most insulting question you

possibly ask. I'm not Slytherin, Josh, you asshole. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Giffindal. So just back off. Have you been to Wizarding World? Were you at a theme parks? No, I haven't done that. Okay, there's a line. Not a theme park guy generally or is it?

No, no, no, no. I just think I, I'm sure there's some Game of Thrones Harry Potter crossover and I think if I ended up a theme park, it might get a bit intense. Where are you at in terms of, That's going to take up, I would imagine, a bit of your time. You're a dad, which takes up, I would imagine, probably most of your time. Yes, as it should do.

Yeah. It should. So, changing, obviously, this is the cliche, but it's true. It changes your priorities in terms of, like, where you're going to work, how you're going to work, etc. What are you, I don't know, what are you looking for work-wise right now? Or do you feel like you're sorted in terms of, like, refilled? What I was looking for work-wise was something that would be, close to home

so I could be a dad more because I've struggled this year and I've been away a lot and Harry Potter came along which films down the road from me so I get to be a dad I get to go and play in a world I love

genuinely right now I'm very content yeah enjoying being a dad this is yeah yeah and And that's the main job and always should be the main job. So do you read them stories? Are you like? Yeah.

Yeah, I do. Yeah. Yeah, we have wonderful voices we put on and I really perform them. They're very lucky. They've got two very talented performers as parents that can just do all the voices I would imagine. We compete though. This is a problem. Rose, step off.

I've got this wrong. It's like, you'll get, my boy will be like, I want mommy to read me a book tonight. I'm like, really? You want mummy? Wow. Okay. Yeah. Sure.

I'll do better tomorrow. I can try. What do you need? She doesn't do all the big, no, okay. What's your wheelhouse? What's your, in terms of the voices that you do, versus Rose? I go big. I go really big until I'm sort of shouting and they're like asking me to be a bit quiet.

It sounds like story time is really, daddy might. It's really more for you than for them. But they'll talk in the middle. There's trouble about having actors as parents is that they'll be like, Daddy, don't, no, no, no, no. I'm just in the middle of the, just one. second because I was doing the elephant so in a second like yeah that's gonna be their enduring memories like daddy gave a performance yeah daddy

daddy wanted a second take and we had to listen yeah yeah it's a good problem that yeah it's nice okay we're gonna end with this happy second views profoundly random questions for okay okay uh dogs or cats dogs do you collect anything. I mean, I feel like I do, but what do I? No. Okay. That's fair. That's fair. Do you have, we talk video games of horror. Is there a favorite video game of all time ultimately? Um, the Nintendo 64 James Bond. Oh yeah. Yeah. Like the golden eye. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Comes up a lot. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Didn't you also do like a call of duty thing? You did the, yeah. I was in, yeah, I did that for my brother because he's a big call of cheating. Right. You enjoy the mocap? Was that?

He just wanted to kill me in a video. Yeah. He just wanted to kill me in a video. game so we did. Here's my gift to you. Yeah. Dakota Johnson asked me. I ask everybody, would you rather have a mouthful of bees or one be in your butt? Be in the butt. Yeah, correct. What's the wallpaper on your phone? It's my mom. Probably. Last actor you were mistaken for? I'm always confused with Christopher Abbott. But I feel like he's a better looking version. Please. Yeah. I think he's coming in here in like two weeks. Is he? Yes.

He'll be like who? You'll be like who said that. What's the worst another director has ever given you? Yeah. Was that good? Yeah. Doesn't feel good. Yeah, it doesn't feel good now.

In the spirit of happy, said Confused, an actor who always makes you happy when you see them on screen. Oh, gosh. I know, that's too soft he'd say that. Oh, I just could say Harry Melling, because he does. Yeah. He's great.

Yeah. Great. Movie that makes you sad. Oh, my God. Oh, oh, oh, oh. You got it. It was that one with, I forgot on all the names. It's okay.

It's the one about the man who meets his parents at the same age he is. Wait, back to the future? No, no. I never cried back to the future. Back to the future. And TV's true two? No, you know the one with Andrew Scott? Oh yeah, all of us strangers.

All of us strangers, yeah. I wept like a baby doing that. Yeah, I mean, back to the future also. And back to the future too. And a food that makes you confused. You don't get it. Why do people eat that, Kit? Either celery or licorice.

Or like chocolate lava. cake. Just too much. No, that's what I don't like. Like, any sort of fruit with chocolate. Oh, okay. I don't understand. Like berries and chocolate, like chocolate gatto, like that, that.

Keep them separate. Yeah. Each fine, but combined. Together, no. On the celery front, I get it. I don't see the point. Basically, if you mix anything with chocolate, right. Like, if you mix, like, orange or, like, raspberry or any fruit that's not a nut

with chocolate, do one. Never seen you so. I didn't realize I felt that strongly about it. We've discovered something here today. Yeah. Okay, full circle, back to the pointed hand. Congratulations on the Tale of Two Cities. It's on MGM Plus.

Well worth checking out. Everybody should check it out, Support Kit, as always. I'm so happy this happened. I really appreciate taking the time, especially because you haven't done a lot of this, so it's all the more meaningful. Keep killing it and come back anytime. Thank you very much. Thank you for having me. Thanks, dude.

So ends another edition of happy, sad, confused. Remember to review, rate, and subscribe to this show on iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm a big podcast person. I'm Daisy Ridley, and I definitely wasn't sure to do this by Josh. Spotify Ads Manager makes it easy to create your first audio ad in minutes for free. Sign up today, launch a campaign, and start reaching your audience.