Happy Sad Confused - Kumail Nanjiani

Episode Date: December 6, 2017

A year ago Kumail Nanjiani's career was going great. Between a hugely successful stand-up career and a role on the hit series "Silicon Valley", not to mention various podcasts and supporting film roles, he wasn't wanting for much.  And yet, here were are in the thick of awards season and Nanjiani has found himself lauded left and right for a whole new side of his career -- starring (and co-writing with wife Emily Gordon) in the hit film, "The Big Sick".  On this episode of "Happy Sad Confused", Najiani joins Josh to discuss his newfound career as a leading man in the movies, how it's affected his career, how it's changed his work on "Silicon Valley", plus Josh and Kumail chart out what kind of roles the actor/comedian should snag in the next "Avatar" and "Star Wars" films.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

D.C. high volume, Batman. The Dark Nights definitive DC comic stories adapted directly for audio for the very first time. Fear, I have to make them afraid. He's got a motorcycle. Get after him or have you shot. What do you mean blow up the building? From this moment on,

none of you are safe. New episodes every Wednesday, wherever you get your podcasts. Today on Happy Sack and Fused, Kumail Nanjani on going from stand-up to a leading man, The Big Sick and Silicon Valley. Hey guys, I'm Josh Harowitz. Welcome to the show. Welcome to a special episode with the one and only Mr. Kumail Nanjiani, a very talented and hysterical actor and comedian and writer.

and he's been having a banner year. Sammy, have you finished your nerds yet? Sammy was just eating nerds at a really inopportune time. Lemonade flavored. Well, I'm upset. What? Because I'm the only one that's supposed to eat the stale candy in your office, and half of it's missing.

And I think I know who did it. The person that did it, and I think the evidence is in the podcast itself. You'll hear him chew on it. Kumel availed himself of the candy, and that's fine. Thanks, Kumel, for leaving the lemonade-flavored nerd. He did. He went for, I think, like, the Nestle crunches and that kind of a thing. He sounds like an asshole. No, he's not. He's not. And that's what the candy bowl is there for to keep our guests wired and happy. Not for you, Sammy.

And I can't even, like, reach the nerds at the bottom of the box. The diet of a 12-year-old. You're drinking Coke zero, like, nerds. What are the rest of these things? Sour bites. We've got gobstoppers and a big bubble gum for dessert. When you're as old as I am. That's like just a recipe for death. That's not going to make it this. That would kill me. So let's talk Kumal.

Kumal is of course the star and the co-writer along with his wife, Emily Gordon, of the Big Sick, which... Everyone's obsessed with this movie. And Sammy just confessed she has not quite seen it yet. But the good news, Sammy, and the good news for the audience out there, is that the Big Sick, after a great run in theaters, it made... This is like a $5 million movie, a labor of love, went to Sundance. no one knew what it was going to be. Cleaned up. Cleaned up. Sold for big money and has made like $55 million. I think, I don't know if that's just domestic worldwide, but the point is it's made like 10 times its budget.

I'm going to watch it this weekend. It's on Amazon Prime right now. So if you have Amazon Prime, it is available. Or if you have your parents Amazon Prime login. That's certainly not. Sammy, of course. Mr. Bezos, if you're listening, she has her own account. Of course she does. 30 years old. So yes. If you don't know. know, the Big Sick is very much inspired by a true story that, uh, kind of how Kumail and

Emily, um, ended up as a couple together. And, you know, it's all kind of in the trailers and the publicity materials, so it's not really ruining anything. But suffice it to say, their courtship and their, their, their, their blossoming love was, uh, had an interjection of a, of a, of a really serious medical crisis in the middle of it. Um, and this is a really sweet, funny, uh, smart, um, a movie that, you know, critics loved, and I certainly fell in love with it when I saw it at Sundance. So it's been great to see it have this very long life after its debut, and it's still going strong even to, into award season. So a real thrill to have Kumail on, and he's always got a lot to talk about because he, of course, is one of the stars of Silicon Valley. We talk about he's need deep in the new season, talks about...

I was going to ask. Are they done? Not done yet. He was a bit, I think that's why it was good he was having sugar because he needed a little bit. bit of a sugar boost because he's been shooting the show and doing double duty and promoting big sick um but we talk a lot about where the show's at and where the fact that tj miller is now gone and what that's been like um and we also just nerd out on a bunch of you know nerdy movie subjects that's so weird for it you never do that well well i felt like i know i know for a fact that kumel is into a lot of the stuff i'm into so we uh had a good opportunity to talk all things you know

from lord of the rings to star wars why not you talked about motorcycles No car talk Definitely not So yeah That's the episode this week The second of three episodes Of Happy Sad Confused this week

In just a couple days Look out for a conversation I'll tease it because it's already in the can With the second star That we've done an interview with For Call Me By Your Name Timothy Shalame So that's on the next episode Of Happy Set Confused

But in the meantime A I want you guys to enjoy this episode Yes. And B, get some candy out because it's good to have a little candy. Yeah. And C, remember to review rate and subscribe. I don't have to do all three, but one or two of the three would be nice. Whatever order you want. You can subscribe. I'm not your keeper. Rate, then review. It's like, this is fluid. You can do this however you need to do it. Yeah, yeah. Look, it's a friendly suggestion. It's chill. It's a chill suggestion. Sammy's watching. She's watching and judging.

judging you always. Always. I just refresh the comments. She's watching you. She's watching all of us. Enjoy this conversation regardless of your reviewing, rating, and subscribing. Though you'll probably enjoy it more if you've done that. Enjoy this chat with Kumail Nanjani and check out the Big Sick, now on Amazon Prime.

Kumil Nanjani is enjoying my Halloween candy, a little weight, but it's still fresh-ish, right? Well, I've been eating all the Kit-Kats. I'm getting rid of all of them. That's your candy of choice? I do love Kit-Kat's. I will say that it's like melted and reformed somehow. Listen, I don't want to give candy in the mouth, but... Right. Are you judging me or the Kit-Kat manufacturers? I haven't decided yet. I'll tell you, I don't think it's the manufacturers. I will tell you, that comes, my Halloween candy stash every year comes from the treehouse of horror swag for Simpsons.

What do you mean? Simpsons every year. No, I know that show. Yeah, they, obviously you know that, but like they send out swag, like a nice big bowl of Halloween candy to promote that. Oh, too, like everybody. To like the press people and stuff. It's one of the few, as you see up my silly swag pile, most of it's crap, but this is actually useful stuff. Yeah, it's candy.

This can keep, this can keep guests wired and excited and happy. You're laying this fully on the feet of mad graining. Yeah, Matt Craneck does not know, is melting Kit Katz and reconstituting them for you. I don't like it, but I'll take it. It's been delicious. I've eaten three of them. Good. It's kicking in, hopefully.

Congratulations for the 12th time along this publicity circuit on this. When was it the first time that you and I talked about this? It was a kind of random place. I don't know if I actually caught up with you at Sundance. I saw it at Sundance, but I don't think I spoke to you guys there. Of all random places, I spoke to you in Vegas. for this one. That's right. Which is a very random. CinemaCon. That's what it was. That was the first time, which was probably like April-ish, I want to say. April. That's right. That's right.

I actually enjoy cinema-con. It's a weird one. I enjoy it from like a coverage standpoint because it's like... You see footage, right? I can see a lot of footage, and that's a fun one. Like, I suppose to Comic-Con, because I never get out of that room at Comic-Con, and I never actually go into Hall-H and see anything. It's a lot more reasonable than Comic-Con. Comic-Con is unreasonable. Yeah, and it's become more so. You know, also, I haven't been to Vegas that much, but I went for Cinemacon. I like Vegas. It's okay in small quantities.

There's a tipping point. It's like two or three days. I'm sure. It's sort of like being in an airport the entire time. Like stale air. Yeah. And whatever you're eating, there's just like people walking by you, even like super fancy restaurants in there.

Yeah. It's just like people constantly walking by you like at an airport. Yeah. I don't know. It's like being inside a giant mall. I kind of liked it. Yeah. It's okay.

Okay. So you're on the crazy publicity circuit yet again, and now you're getting into the time of year where you're getting all the swanky, the parties, the roundtables, the award shows that we didn't know existed. Yeah. That's right. Yeah. I'm a part of some of those groups that don't really, shouldn't exist, but do exist? Yeah, you're in an unenviable position of not knowing what something is in the next day, really being upset that you didn't get it. You're like, wait, I didn't get the Portland Best Actor Award? Yeah, and two days ago, I had no idea that existed, and now it's, like, bumming me out. Have you received any weird statues or prizes from any of these organizations you didn't know about? Yeah, we've gotten a few of them. Yeah, I got a, we got a Hollywood Film Award for Best Ensemble in a comedy, which was great.

We got an Indie Wire, but that was their first year doing it. By the way, I love Indie Wire. That's a great one. That's a legit one I will. IndyWire Vanguard Award or something. No, Artur Award or Visionary Award, some really great word. You're adding a lot. Wait, are you just like saying this about yourself,

but none of those are actually in the title. You're like, I think I'm a Vanguard or visionary or. Yeah, Kit Kat Eater. I think, so we got that. That was cool. Then we got a San Diego. I got a San Diego from the San Diego Film Festival, something. It's a box of rice errone.

it's cool it's been uh it's been great it's awesome and are you also getting a chance to do i've spoken to a bunch of these folks on the circuit like i've had all to call me by your name folks on and you're basically now promoting that film as much as you're yeah i've decided that that's the movie i'm gonna promote i've been promoting big sick for a better part of the year it's time to move on to something else let's call me by your name it's a great it's a great movie i had stool bargain timothy and army in the last couple weeks uh yeah i'm in love with that would too yeah i know all All those guys. Those, of all the people, like, obviously, like, with Get Out, we've known Jordan for a long time.

So obviously, know him, but going to all these parties and stuff. I found that we've gotten to know the call me by your name people the most. So always excited to see those guys become friends with all of them. So are you feeling, like, comfortable with, and not necessarily that group, because that's, like, a pretty genial young group. But, like, you're also probably doing these, like, roundtables with, like, these esteemed, you know, actors and whatever that have. been doing it for a while and that are considered the best that was an Leslie Crunch bar falling into back into the basket just as people know I want people to know what's happening okay um but like are you finding yourself comfortable in these kind of new situations that you've

never found yourself in before um well it sort of depends you know uh what is cool is running into people that you're that you've been a fan of your whole life yeah who's seen the movie and like it so that's really cool it's really kind of getting to meet some of your heroes is cool. And I find these events, you know, they're not really, they're kind of fun for the most part. They're not uncomfortable because they're not sort of these, there are big people there.

But everybody's kind of at least trying to have fun. So they're not like generally, they haven't been so stuffy. Right. It's tough when it's a few in a row and you're just tired. And I'm shooting Silicon Valley right now. So it's been a lot of like get up at 5 a.m. shoot a full day, go to these things, get up at 5 a.m. the next day. So that's tiring.

Like, oh, no, I need to be, I want to be charming for Harrison Ford, but I'm so damn sleepy. I know. Well, you know, with Harrison Ford, you can match his energy level. I'll do 20% more than you. Nice to meet you. But they're actually kind of fun. Yeah. I decided I would enjoy it and I have been

enjoying it. Is there, you know, do you generally, like, are you the kind of person, because I sometimes think this way, whether it's people that come on the podcast or I meet in my travel is like, oh, I think I'm going to get along with that person. Like, you know, you watch them on TV or in films for years. You're like, I think, I feel like I'm going to, we're going to click. Yeah.

Does it generally happen or do you find yourself disappointed or have you, have there been examples of like, oh, yeah, that actually panned out. I'm actually kind of, I'm texting with X, Y, Z person. Yeah. I try not to project too much or feel like, um, I try not to expect anything. And when I, like, meet someone I'm a fan of, I sort of, I say hi and stuff, but then I try and put it in their court. Like, I give them an out, and I'm like, this conversation is now done. You always want to get out early.

Like, you don't want to, like, feel like you're, like, keeping them from something. I give them an end point. And if they don't take it, then, like, great, then let's talk and maybe become friendly. But when I first meet, I at least try to be like, and this is the end. I'll walk away Unless you don't want me to walk away So You know

It's generally Everybody I've met Has been really nice Like I said The calling me by your name people Are the ones that I've sort of Really gotten to know the most And then you know

Some of these people have been like Celebrities forever like you said So You kind of don't want to like invade their space Because it probably gets invading all the time. But it's just cool to meet people that have made amazing stuff and be like, oh, they're

just a normal person. It's really kind of inspiring, you know? So let's talk a little bit background-wise, because like one of the cool things, you know, your career has been remarkable in the way it's like kind of like in some ways jumpstarted and restarted in a new way this year. But the fact that like, you know, growing up, you know, in Pakistan and then moving here about on 18 or 19, like there's no model. for what you've become, generally speaking.

No, but I don't think there's a model for anybody in this business, right? Like, there's no model for what you do. That's true. There was no point in your life where you were like, I want to be a podcaster. It didn't even exist. Right. But that's what I mean. Like, you know, with a lot more traditional careers, there's like a trajectory that you

could sort of trace where you're like, I want to, you know, I want to start working at this office and then work up to this and become vice president, whatever it is. there are certain trajectories that people have. I certainly have friends who are like, have that kind of plan. But with what we do, it's really hard to have a plan because so much of it depends on luck to being right place, right time. You can't really plan on being like, I want to be a big Hollywood star. You know, nobody can really plan that.

So, so, yeah, it's always been, I've never really thought too far ahead. Like when I first, I always sort of think of like the next thing that would be fun to do that I think I would like to do. But I don't really think too far ahead. So, you know, when I was first doing stand-up, I was like, I just want to host at this at the Des Moines Funny Bone. Like, that was my big goal, right? And I still haven't hosted it. What? Yeah, no, I haven't hosted the Des Moines Funny Boone.

I hear Timothy Salome got that one. God damn it. There was a long time where I was losing it. every part to Ben Schwartz so I think maybe Ben Schwartz got it yeah that might be listening he's great a couple times oh he's so funny yeah he's a friend um but uh so you know I've always started like the next thing that I'm like all right what are my options what can I do what would be fun to do right so it was always like that so it would stand up it was just like oh I want to do that show oh now I want to do this show I want to do this show it was never like I want to write a movie about

my life with my wife and and have it be successful that was never it's always like little steps. So there wasn't like if I talked to you like a couple years ago and you were obviously a very prosperous stand-up and you were acting a bunch by then you were already on Silicon like you had a very good career going. It wasn't like there was something lacking that you like in your

at home with Emily like you know I feel like I want a shot at being a lead in a movie like is that something that ate at you or? It didn't eat at me but by then a couple years ago it was something that I wanted that was the next thing I wanted to do. Got it. You know so at

that point yeah like once we i'd been doing silicon valley for a couple years i was like okay i would love to at this point see if i could if we could write a movie and i could play myself like at that point that certainly was the goal so it's always like one sort of it's like what the next what's the next what's the next thing i haven't quite yet yeah yeah yeah and it's a little like i never feel comfortable wherever i am and it's sort of it's not like it's not like Like, you know, Emily always said you should enjoy your, whenever you have a little bit of success. You should enjoy it more. And that was a problem for a long time.

I wouldn't enjoy it. It was always about the next thing. I think it's pretty pervasive for, I feel that for myself, for many people in this business on those sides of it. It's just, and part of it is why I think we are always reiterating and trying new things. It feeds that, but at the same time, you can make yourself miserable, or at least not as, content as you should be. Right, right. I mean, you know, everybody like, Will Ferrell probably wants to win an Oscar, you know,

and he's the biggest comedy store in the world. So Jim Carrey, I mean, yes. Jim Carrey times a thousand, yes. Yeah, yeah. So I think you've never really done because there's always so much to do. And when you look at the people you look up to, they've done so much. I mean, you have posters of like movies by John Carpenter, Robert Zemeckis and Martin Scorsese. You know, they didn't do just one great thing.

They've done many, many, many great things. And you're comparing yourself to sort of the best in the world. Right. And you kind of want to, for me, it's like if you don't want to at least try and do what your heroes did, then I don't know what the point is. At least for me, you know, I'm not one. I was never like, oh, we made this movie. It's really good. We're really proud of it.

And got that out of my system. Now it's done. No, it's like, all right, what's the next thing? Yeah. Yeah, now that Daniel Day Lewis is out of the game. There are more opportunities for you. Yeah, exactly, because that's, I'm a Daniel Day Lewis type. Hey, let's not limit ourselves.

The two people have lost parts to are Ben Schwartz and Daniel Day Lewis. I'd like to see that waiting room for that. Yeah. Ben Schwartz beat out Daniel Day Lewis a couple times. Were you ever up for leads like in films? Did you come close to any kind of like interesting leading roles? No, I bet not. I don't think so.

I think there were a couple times where they're like movies. There were like three dudes, you know? Right. You know the three dude movies? Yeah, like that awkward moment movie. You know what I'm talking about? It was a three-dudor. So I think there were a couple times where there were some three-duders that I probably

got close to being one of the dudes, not the main dude. This is pornography we're talking about. One of the side dudes, yeah. Yeah, okay. Two dudes, one dude. Yeah. So, but I don't think so. I think this was definitely a pretty, this was like a big step.

This was like sort of a leap. Like I don't feel like I've really. skipped any steps, you know, I started off doing stand-up, open mics, and then doing better shit, yeah, like literally every single thing, you know, writing for a TV show than being on a show that wasn't that successful, that being on a show that was more successful than being small parts in movies, then slightly bigger parts of movies. So I feel like I sort of worked through the whole thing, but this is still a big leap, and it happened because of Judd Apatow, you know, because Jed Apatow was like, all right,

I want to make a low-budget movie. I don't do low-budget, but I want to do it. and I want this guy to be the lead. So if it wasn't for that, it would not have happened. So it really was Judd who made this happen. And so many people have that story. I mean, Jud, I have such respect for Judd, just from his own creative work

and the way he's championed others and also the way he just carries himself in life and on social media, et cetera. He's just like a good dude through and through. In the development of this, which I know took some time, I imagine it's hard to pinpoint like what the best kind of creative note

he gave you was but is there something that kind of like stands out that kind of was a guiding principle or something that made you turn a corner on this one for you and emily yeah i think you know it was a ton of stuff but i think the most important one that we didn't know was that he was basically like you can make it like emotionally messy and complicated and you don't really have to resolve anything he was just like you just have to show people struggling with what they're struggling with And they don't have to end up in a place where they figured it out. You just have to show that. So to me, that was, for me, it was always like, if we're writing this movie, if I bring up this issue, how do we resolve it?

If I bring this up, how do we resolve it? And he was like, just bring it up. Don't resolve it. It doesn't have to be that tidy. It almost feels a little too canned. Yeah. So to me, that was very important. Like, that was the one thing.

It just made me think about writing movies completely different. Yeah. You know, you just completely different. obviously want to have a journey for the characters, but the journey doesn't have to end at the destination as long as there's some sort of movement happening. That's kind of all that matters, as long as you just show the struggles. So to me, that was really, it took a lot of pressure off, but it also made it, I don't know, it just made, I think it made the movie a lot better. Yeah. I watched it, I think, for the third time this morning, just to enjoy it and refresh.

I think on this take, I was like, oh, this is his origin story. This is like, I'm Unbreakable Kumel. Maybe I just always, I probably had watched the Avengers trailer just before I watched you. Oh, so you were in that mode.

It's like, oh, yeah, he's become something now. I mean, he's not there yet, but he's on his way there. Right. So.

There's going to be another unbreakable movie. That's exciting. I couldn't be more excited. Are you an unbreakable fan? I love unbreakable. Yeah. Did you,

I mean, I saw, I got to see like a press screen for split, and there was nobody had known it. Everybody knew. See, I knew already. Oh, my God. I literally, I don't think there's been another time where I've been in a theater and I've actually said out loud, holy shit. Yeah, people were literally said that.

I wish I knew because when it first screened, everyone was like, oh my God, that ending, that crazy thing, that crazy thing. And I was like, oh, I don't want to know, but I do want to know. So I found out what it was. Oh, you're not strong. But I also waited a long time to watch it. Like, I didn't watch it for like a few months. And then I watched it on a plane. I'm happy he's back with some good movies night

I've always been a I've defended that guy through some some crap but he's a great director you know he's just I didn't see the visit but this is fun yeah I've heard it's good yeah um okay so we're dancing around but so you know I think and I don't mean this is a backhanded compliment but I think you would agree that like the fact that you you are so good in the film as an album

thank you no seriously like like you're acting in it Like, you're opposite Holly Hunter, for God's sakes. So, and I know that must have been a source of stress or nervousness for you to, like, hold your own and to hold a screen like this. Are you, when you look at the film, as I'm sure you've looked at it many, many times now, are you, do you see kind of moments that make you cringe or can you kind of accept, like, I did a good job on this? It's both.

There are moments that make me cringe and I still can accept, like, I don't know. a good job. There's certainly, like, there's things I learned about acting over the course of making the movie. I remember, like, because it really was, you're working with people who are legends, who are really good, so you're sort of learning from them as you're going. And you're kind of like, oh, man, I wish I could do that scene again last week, knowing what I know now, you know? So it's like, it was a five-week shoot, and I learned so much over the course of it, that it felt a little like, it's awesome to know, but I'm like, this would have been good two weeks ago.

Is there an example that you can think of? I mean, there were just specific sort of scenes, like specific emotional scenes that I was like, okay, I would approach it slightly differently now. Too big or too small or two, whatever. Yeah, or just to, you know, sometimes I think there's, you sort of feel an obligation to go someplace emotionally in a scene. You feel like, oh, in this scene, I want to get like this. And so then sometimes when you're doing that, you're probably trying to get there

rather than actually just getting there. I think one lesson that I really learned over the course of this was you could have a little path in mind, but it's really important to kind of forget it. And then just see where the scene and the other actor takes you. Because the camera can kind of see the wheels in motion. Sometimes can see you thinking through perhaps. Yeah, or sometimes, you know, when you, I would just watch movies differently now. And you see moments that are really, really moving.

Sometimes the actor isn't really doing that much. And so it's a little bit more of like just trust yourself and trust the audience. And don't try and like get to any kind of specific. place. Right. Like, rehearse it and arc it and know where you want to go, but sort of forget it and trust that you and the other actors are good enough that wherever it goes is where it goes.

And I learned that from watching Holly. I mean, you know, she would do takes and sort of go to different places each time. And it was, she clearly hadn't planned any kind of path. She was just sort of going where it seemed like the scene was taking her. So that was a really interesting, cool thing. And then going back to Silicon Valley with that lesson in mind has been really, even though it's a very different kind of thing, you know, it's really just funny. It's never anything more than that. But being in Silicon Valley, I would like be like, all right, in this scene I start off here, then I end up here.

And now this year, I'm more like, you know, this is where it seems like I would end up, but let's just see what happens. Or the guys now like huddled in the corner, be like, oh, shit, like, Kumail's next level now. What do we do? What do we do? I mean, we're off. He's got the hunter tips. He's got the hunter tips. Yeah. The other guys, I think, already knew the hunter tips.

I was behind everybody else. You know, I mean, Martin's been acting since he was a child. Sure. So it's been, it's been interesting. And it's just like, I've just been a lot more relaxed acting. And I actually felt over the course of this movie while shooting it, I started feeling more and more relaxed, which was really good because what can happen is if you're like doing a show like Silicon Valley for instance and you have you're shooting two scenes that day right out of four and you have like five lines in

each scene that's 10 lines a day so you're kind of like thinking about that what should I do but when you're doing a movie where you're the main guy in every scene you're doing so much every day that you kind of have to let it let go a little bit yep and that was really really great that was really it was exciting to just sort of let go and just do the scenes and see what happens and also you know because we edited it so much and emily and i were so involved in the editing process you see like i can compare how i felt in the scene versus how it looks on screen and understand the correlation a little better just like knowing every step of the way yeah i think it makes me hopefully a better actor would you would you would you and em i know you and emily are you know

constantly asked about collaborating again, and I'm sure you will at some point or sooner or later. Would that manifest also, would you guys want to co-direct it or want to be directed to? Is that some of you guys have talked about? I think at some point I would love to direct, I think, certainly. But right now I'm still having too much fun. Like, doing what we did with this movie was kind of perfect. Like, I'd love to write more with her star in that because I'm still figuring this out. And it's like not, I mean, it's pretty fun.

from boring it's just uh i still feel like there's a lot more of uh of this that i that i want to do before moving on to directing i feel like i want to i want to do more acting figure out acting more i want to figure out writing movies more before i move on to the next step you know like we were saying we're always looking for the next thing yeah i feel like i'm still on this thing you're not quite ready to yeah i'm having a great time doing this thing and there's a lot more things I want to do in this capacity before I move on to the next thing. There must be a sense of relief, too,

or I don't know if you let it kind of get in your head in the making of this film or when you were preparing for it to screen at Sundance, et cetera, that, you know, stand-up, you can bomb and you can just go right back out and do it an hour later or the next day. Yeah. If this one doesn't work, it's arguable

you might not get another shot at leading a film soon ever. You don't know. Yeah, I mean, that for sure. but also you only get one shot at this story. And this is, like, an important story for me and Emily, and we wanted to do a good job. And we knew that if we didn't get it right,

this story would just never get told right, you know? So you're not honoring your own story and how horrible feeling with that thing. Yeah, yeah, we fucked it up. You know, fucked up someone else's story this time. Yeah. So, you know, with the career stuff, you couldn't really, I'd never really thought of it as like a career step, you know?

Never really thought of it as like, oh, now I'll be the league. and I'll be able to be the lead and other stuff hadn't really thought about that and certainly that's an opportunity now that I have which is great it's a great byproduct of this

but it was mostly like I just want to do we want to do a good job with this story and I hope you don't fuck it up and would stand up if you're on stage or joke bombs you can acknowledge it bombs

you can change course you can make fun of yourself with the movie it's kind of done it is what it is so if it's bombing this really nothing you can do about it so I'm very happy that it didn't This film is now part of, like, one of the most very specific subgenres of comedies ever, the coma comedy.

I think it's you and while you were sleeping, basically. Am I missing any? Well, I guess the descendants has a coma in it. That's true. Yeah. That's true. Yeah. Okay, so I was going to say, like, or we're going to have to wait another 23 years for the trend to officially be a trend.

But no, I guess we're at trending now. But the descendants isn't as centered on a coma. No, I agree. It is sort of the inciting of incident. To go Sid Field on you and to go to like the classic dramatic structure, yes. This movie hinges on that. I guess I guess the sentence kicks off with the coma. It kicks off with it, yeah.

But they don't, yeah, yeah. What else? There's a, I mean, I don't know if you were calling. Sleeping Beauty, I don't think you can call a coma movie. That's not a coma. That would be very weird. Is Honsolo being in carbonite? Is that a coma?

No. And it's not a comedy. There's some funny lines. Yeah, but it's not a comedy. There's funny lines of the stuff that aren't comedies. Okay, let's cast you in some upcoming films. Because we haven't even geeked out on, like, nerd stuff, which you and I could probably spend a lot of time on. We have four more Avatar movies.

What's the part you want to play in the next avatar movie? listen I love Avatar I would love to be but I don't want to be one of the avatars I want to be a human I don't want to be a guy and a tech guy you that's a backward step for you I don't want to be the Navi but Sam Worthington you know he was the he got to be human too

I just because that kind of acting seems so challenging where they're like the mocap stuff like the balls all over you that kind of thing the balls all over you kind of thing and there's no there's the floor camera talk yeah we're going to put balls all over you and there's no like trees or anything so that must be really difficult but then also yeah i bet in post they can tweak the performance in a way that you can't with traditional actors right yeah right right right like uh planet of the apes

and stuff so right yeah andy circus is is probably as freaked out as the rest of us but they spend 50 million dollars making him look like warrence olivier yeah yeah but uh So, yeah, with Avatar, I'd love to play one of the, a human person, then maybe who becomes a Navi. I don't know. Okay, okay. There's an arc over the four films, so you've got plenty of time. Star Wars? What do you want to be?

Anything. I would love to be anything in Star Wars. I'd love to be like, like, you know, I love that Riz was in Rogue One, like one of the crew, you know, I think that would be so fun. Yeah. Let's see, what are the other, you're a war of the Rings fan, right? I am, yeah. What do you think about this new TV show that they're just sold to Amazon? I am cautiously optimistic with all this stuff.

You know, people get upset at sequels and reboots. I never do because I don't think it affects the original. I'm good. I can separate it. Yeah, even if, like, and I hope it doesn't, I don't think it well. But if the new Lord of the Rings sucks, it doesn't affect the older movies. So I'm always, like, more excited. Like, yeah, give me more Ghostbusters.

Give me more. Give me sequels to this. And if it's great, great. If it's not, who cares, right? So I'm cautiously optimistic. I'm a big Lord of the Rings fan. We're about to start our annual rewatch. We watch all three extended editions.

The holiday season for just to celebrate. Around the holiday season. Yeah. I mean, I love those movies so much. It's such a monumental feat. I mean, he hadn't directed really a big Hollywood movie. And then he went in and sold three major expensive blockbusters. like his pitch must have been so good.

He just dropped the mic and left the room. They're like, I think we have to green light it, guys. That was amazing. Yeah. They're going to be three movies, but they're going to be really good. That's the pitch. And by the third one, I'm pretty sure we're getting a bunch of Oscars. Yeah.

Oh, my God. And making a billion dollars. So I am excited about that. I'm playing a Lord of the Rings video game right now. Is there a new world? Yeah, Shadow of War. It's sort of set pre Lord of the Rings. It's great.

it's before like sauron has risen again so he's sort of there's rumors there's rumors of him they're talking about him in the pub yeah yeah have you heard about saran guy is that just all that happens in the game people talking in a pub about it's very boring but looks beautiful um have you got up for like genre stuff like do you have you done like the the the horrible sixth lead in a michael bay movie guy that's you know because a lot of comedians have like you know got in that Yeah, I have not done that and I have not gotten the opportunity to audition for any of those big ones. Like, I would love to be, like, in a action movie or something. I really would.

I mean, to me, like, being in a superhero movie would be great. I'd love to play some sort of, like, superhero guy, because now these Marvel movies are getting funnier and funnier, you know? Like, Thor was basically a comedy. It was great. It was great. I'd love to be, like, a guy with Thor. Let me find me some obscure superhero. Slapp a cape on me and I'll crack wise.

I can see it. I can see it. I love that the traditional definition of these genres is getting broadened. Like, you know, like we've never had a superhero movie like Thor, like the new Thor. And now we do. So I think it's great. It's been interesting because improv started in comedies. Right.

And everybody loved it. Then kind of people turned on improv and comedies because they were like, it's too much. And now. It's being applied to the blockbuster. Yeah, which I think is great. I think you, you see it, like, popping up in big, big blockbusters where you're like, oh, that was clearly an improvised little moment, you know? I think it's cool.

It sounds like that's what was going to be for a second, maybe. Lord and Miller's take, who knows, we'll never know now. Yeah, I'm sure, you know, Ron Howard's is going to be great, but I want to see Lord and Millers, too, yeah. It sounds like you are going to get a chance of that kind of, like, a running around, like a cop kind of thing, right? Are you and John Sina going to do this buddy cop thing? Yeah, I hope so.

I mean, you know, you never know until you're finished with the last day of shooting. Right. But, yeah, I think John Sina's great. I met him in Vegas at Cinemocon. That's where I met him. That guy's got a bit of charisma. Yeah, he's great. He's big.

He's a big guy. Yeah. And so that one, they're just trying to figure out the script and get it greenlit. Yeah, they're working on it right now. Yeah. So, so where, like, where are you at? Like, you're very busy, obviously, kind of like splitting time between Silicon Valley. And how deep into the season are you guys right now?

We're about to start shooting episode four. Okay. So I go back this weekend and the next week we do episode four. Is the, is the T.J. Miller discussion still something that's had? I mean, I know that the exit was, you know, he's quite a personality, to say the least. And there was, you know, ruffled feathers, perhaps. Are people like, is it feel just kind of like a new beginning? or all things are cool or what?

Things are cool. It feels different, you know, but it doesn't just feel different because T.J. is gone. It feels different because the show is pretty different this season. If you think about what Ehrlich was and his relationship to us,

if he's gone, you know, the show kind of changes. Yeah. I mean, we live in his house and now he's gone. What happens there, you know? So it feels different because this is the most, different season we've done and also with tj gone now all our relationships are a little different

with one another you know so uh it feels great though i think it's good you know listen i'm sad to see t j go he's still one of my best friends and i i think or like is a fantastic comedic character yeah sad to see him go but you know he's going to do great stuff and i hope i get to work with him again at some point i'm sure i will but it does force comedies can sort of get into rhythms and formulas. Right, which is the death of comedy. Yeah, and something like this, I think, really kind of forces you to reinvent yourself, and that's what the show's done this season.

So that's not, that part is not so bad. You know, in keeping with the theme of Silicon Valley and the kind of the geek world kind of stuff we were just talking about of, like, superhero and fantasy stuff, like, I'm sure your mind's been boggled in recent years where, like, for me, like, all the stuff that I grew up worshipping is now, like, the most pervasive part of pop culture. this isn't going to be a bubble, is it? Is this going to be like the western or the hula hoop where it's going to pop at some point and like we're going to have to be nerds that are hated again?

Or are we ruling for the rest of our lives? That's interesting. Somebody was telling me, cowboy movies with the big movies, and that's because, you know, we sort of didn't have, it was sort of like smaller towns and stuff, and that's what cowboys did. Then it became cop movies as we'd got into urban centers. There were more bigger cities.

So cop movies became the dominant one, and he says, now we're in a global world. Everything's connected. Everyone knows where everything is. And so now it's super heroes. Every cinematic universe. Yeah. Yeah.

And superheroes are sort of like the global cops, you know. Oh, that's interesting. Yeah. So I don't know. I mean, I don't think, but it is strange that the default blockbuster is now superhero movies. It's crazy. There are so many of them. And there's good ones.

I think, I think it won't sustain this level of quantity. But I think they'll stay And I think, you know, it's going to become a respectable genre It already has But I think what, as we were saying with Thor What Marvel has been really good at They have to... Yeah, they've done a good job

Where there'll be like ones that are more like sort of like Indiana Jones, like I thought Guardians of the Galaxy is sort of an Indiana Jones vibe to it It was like an adventure movie And then you know Winter Soldier was like an espionage movie Right So they're sort of doing different

genre takes with these You know, and I think that's interesting. So I think it's just going to broaden the definition of what a comic book movie is and it'll just be like one of the genres of movies that we do that can be a lot of different things. Have you caught up or are you going to catch up with Justice League yet? I haven't seen it yet. Man. I really want to see.

I mean, it's worth seeing just because it's amazing that a Justice League movie exists. Yeah. But it's a, yeah, I don't know. It's a problem. I mean, I'll say it. I mean, you haven't seen it. I haven't seen it. But it's a weird one.

It's tough? It's a tough one. I wanted to like it. I go in with the best of intentions, and it's just, you know, as has been well reported, they need to just figure out what they're doing. It feels like they're all over the map at D.C. Yeah, I need to see. I thought Wonder Woman was great.

Absolutely. Yeah, I saw that twice. James Juan's a good director, so maybe he can make something out of Aquaman. Oh, he's doing Aquaman? He's great. They already shot it. Yeah, yeah. Oh, they already shot it.

So that's interesting, you know. I mean, it's always interesting. when they're sort of bringing characters that we know, like people know Batman and Superman, where they know what he is, but they don't really have an image in their head. They know Superman in their head is pure, and Batman in their head is dark.

Right. But Aquaman people don't know. It could be anything. You know, like Flash, I heard, he's like sort of a wisecracking funny guy in this. Yeah, he's actually probably the best thing. Ezra's, again, has Christmas to spare, and he's got a lot of the fun lines.

It feels like all the Jawsweed and stuff is in his mouth. Oh, okay. Yeah, there are highlights, but it's, you know, in arguably a mess and I'll... Yeah, but I'm going to see it. I've sort of been trying to see these smaller awardsy movies to, like, support smaller movies.

And also, you know, you run into these people at these things we were talking about, so you kind of want to be like, hey, I saw your movie. I've seen anything besides call me by your name that we should help promote besides your own wonderful film. I thought disaster artist was great. I was so late to the room.

I literally only saw the room like two weeks ago. Really? The room's great. It's amazing. Rooms really amazing. I saw a battle of the sexes that, was great. I saw our last flag flying. That was really good. Okay, cool. Yeah, really good. They're so good in all three of them.

Yeah. It's so good. Three billboards, I would recommend. That's a good one. I'm trying to think, what else I've seen? I haven't seen Lady Bird when I see that one. But yeah, I'm trying to sort of work through and see all. I can't wait to see shape of water. That's one that I'm really excited about. It's pretty special. You saw it. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah, Giermo's, you know, he's the kindest man on the pun. I'm sure you've run into some of these things. Yeah, I don't really know him that well. He'll give you a hug regardless of him if he doesn't know you. Just pretend like you know him and it'll be fine. You know, it's good to catch up with you, man. I know that, like, as he joked at the beginning, like, this film has had a long run and it continues. And it's, well, hopefully it'll continue through this award season, too.

It's now available on Amazon. Amazon Prime, yeah. So if you're a prime member, it's free. I've seen it three times. at various different places in my life and towns and methodologies. So it always works, whether it's on a big screen or a small screen. If you haven't caught up with it by now, it's okay. All is forgiven.

There's still time. There's still time. People are like, I'm sorry, I'm so late to this. Like, no, you're not late. Thank you for watching. And I'll tell you, listen, this is going to sound arrogant. Obviously, I'm not the most objective guy, but I do think it gets better on rewatch, too. I think you sort of notice more about the relationship.

and the characters, because all the little stuff we put in there when you sort of don't think about it when you're first watching it, and as you watch it more, I really think it reveals itself in new ways. I would agree. Oh, dude, you can say that. You're a visionary and a vanguard. It's official.

A visionary, vanguard, cat eater, Autour. I think I said Artur. So many adjectives. Artur, I think it was the Artur Award. IndiWire. Was it the Indiwire Autour Award? San Diego.

San Diego. Diego Artur Award. Very nice. Okay, what was the Indy Wire one? The Indy Wire one? Was it Vanguard? No, no, but you've also got the Santa Barbara Virtuoso's Award. Virtuoso!

That's so weird that your inner voice, I can actually hear. Like, it actually manifests. Like, I can hear you talking to yourself. Yeah. That's weird. Yeah. Virtuoso, Vanguard, Autur. And podcast guest on Happy Second Fees, most importantly.

Always good catching up with you, man. Congrats again. Thank you for having me. And so ends another edition of happy, sad, confused. Remember to review, rate and subscribe to this show on iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm a big podcast person. I'm Daisy Ridley and I definitely wasn't pressured to do this by Josh. Hey, Michael.

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We have big news. We got monumental news. We got snack-tacular news. After a brief hiatus, my good friend, Michael Ian Black, and I are coming back. My good friend, Tom Kavanaugh, and I are coming back to do what we do best. What we were put on this earth to do. To pick a snack. To eat a snack.

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