Happy Sad Confused - Kyle MacLachlan

Episode Date: August 31, 2017

Through 2 films and one historic television series, Kyle MacLachlan and David Lynch have created one of the great artistic collaborations of our time. And now, after a 25 year gap in working together, Kyle is back in a big way in his most iconic role with the new season of "Twin Peaks". In this episode of "Happy Sad Confused", Kyle talks at length with Josh about launching his career with David Lynch in "Dune", continuing it with "Blue Velvet", and achieving pop culture immortality with "Twin Peaks". Plus, Kyle digs deep into what it's been like to return to "Twin Peaks" all these years later, playing not one, but three roles! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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or go to explorevolvo.com. Don't miss Swiped, a new movie inspired by the provocative real-life story of the visionary founder of online dating platform Bumble. Played by Lily James, Swiped introduces recent college grad Whitney Wolf as she uses grit and ingenuity to break into the male-dominated tech industry to become the youngest female self-made billionaire. An official selection of the Toronto International Film Festival, the Hulu original film Swiped, is now streaming only on Disney Plus. Today on Happy, Say I Confused, Kyle McLaughlin on David Lynch, Twin Peaks, and Damn It More David Lynch. Hey, guys, I'm Josh Horowitz. This is a Twin Peaksatastic show. That rolls off the tongue. Yeah, I struggle. I think I just broke a rib.

Yeah. Another special episode for you guys this week, I couldn't resist bringing in Kyle McLaughlin. Sammy, you know, I'm obsessed. You have been trying to have this interview for months. I really, as soon as Twin Peaks started, like, approaching, I started to make efforts to get Kyle in here. You rewatched all the old ones. You're, like, in it. I'm in it.

I really like Twin Peaks. And so, you know, spoiler warning, it's best if you've seen the new episodes of Twin Peaks before listening to this. I would advise that maybe wait if you're catching up and then return to us after you've caught up because, we do talk about some kind of like recent spoilery stuff. But generally speaking, this is a lovely conversation about with an actor who's had a

very unique collaboration with one of our most fantastic idiosyncratic filmmakers, Mr. David Lynch. Cal McLaughlin made his film debut in Dune. We're staring at a poster on my desk that has been autographed by Kyle McLaughlin of Dune. Yeah. And you're

it's like he has all these weird office supplies on it to keep it from rolling up. Okay, just so you know, Kyle was the one that helped decide, like, how to, like, keep it. He was, like, put this stapler on this corner and this computer on this corner. Wow, you can't move it.

It's his art. So that's the kind of guy he is. I don't often get paraphernalia autographs. I know it's a little, maybe a little gauche, but Dune was a big one for me. As I'm sitting here, there are three autograph posters behind Josh, just so everybody knows. you have no oh there's another oh that's not an honor i guess it's an autographed poster but it's

that was different yeah yeah we're talking about a chris pratt autograph but it's not okay we've got kurt russell autograph okay yeah but no not a lot i have a lot more in storage got got it so this is rare for you okay all to say my point is i'm a big fan of kiles a big fan of david lynch and when you put the two of them together it's gold uh dune was his film debut uh he of course was in blue velvet and then the television phenomenon that was Twin Peaks and now it's returned with 18 new hours of bizarreness

and wonder and it's concluding this Sunday with a two hour finale I will certainly be watching and no spoilers for that don't worry he can't even talk about what happens in the finale I was going to say did you get to like watch it before this? This is under such locking key Kyle hasn't even seen the last two hours

What? No way he didn't even read the script. They added the lines after. Exactly. CGI did. So yeah, this is a conversation that's very much about his collaboration with David Lynch and the films they made together and touches on some other stuff as well. Of course

Portlandia. No, I'm sorry we didn't cover Sex and the City. Oh, cool. No one cares about Sex and the City, you know. I will say this. He mentioned it. He did bring up Sex and the City briefly. Thank you, Kyle. What? Thank you. I watched Sex and the City. He knows what we want. I watched it on an awful little bit. Yeah. I mean, I don't know.

if you're the exact demo for sex in the city so that's fine. Yeah, that was more of a mind of the married man. I don't even know what you're talking about. Do you know that show? Literally, I have no idea. That was an HBO show, wow. Anyway, okay, without any further ado, let's go right to it. This is Kyle McLaughlin talking about some of my favorite films and one of my favorite filmmakers, David Lynch, and the bizarreness, the majesty that is Twin Peaks. Here's Kyle.

Well, this is an exciting treat because I've got Kyle McLaughlin in my office. Hello. It's a great pleasure to meet you, to talk to you today. I was just telling you I've been looking forward to this for a while because I've always admired your work, especially the amazing collaboration. A very unique collaboration you've had with David Lynch over the last, you know, what close to we're approaching, what, 25 years at least, more 25. Yeah, so we started an 83 with Dune. Yeah. So 34.

I was going to say so. I like six. It's a long time. That's crazy. and to have it with that kind of a filmmaker, as you well know, is a little luck involved, some skill, a little bit of everything. No, it's definitely, I think it's definitely Kismet, you know, and we met in 83 and just somehow it just seemed like the right collaboration.

And which is, and I'm just a kid out of school, you know. I have no idea where I was going, what I was doing. Well, I had a pretty good idea, but I just, this, what happened was unexpected. So I want to get into a lot of things, including Dune, because I was, I was eight years old when I saw Dune in a theater. Perfect age. Honestly, I unironically love that film. It affected me in a profound way back then. But I'm curious, I want to talk about that, but I'm curious, like, you referenced this.

I mean, you obviously wanted to be an actor. You were already endeavoring to be an actor. You've been acting at least locally on a local level. right back home. Yeah, yeah, no, I started doing high school plays and then when I got to college attempted to try and find something legitimate

and Allroads just continued to lead back to drama theater and there just happened to be a wonderful training program at the University of Washington while I was there. Gotcha. That was specifically geared

to train actors for the stage to do repertory theater. And so it wasn't a drama degree per se where you do costumes and you do lighting and you learn about the history this was acting so three years intense study and then they release you like a seed pod into the wilderness yeah exactly kind of like that and you hope for a really good breeze to carry you far yeah um and i

luck down so what inspired you to even get to go into a program like that where because it wasn't in your family wasn't at all to my knowledge so what kind of sparked the interest um you know my My mom was really a big influence on that initially with a lot of resistance from me because she very community involved and believed firmly in kids having the opportunity to experience the arts, in particular drama, music, those kind of things. So she got herself involved in the teen theater program in my hometown, which I thought sounded sort of lame. and so she queers me to come down

and, you know, after the first evening spending time with kids from different schools and particularly women, girls at that age, not women yet, girls kind of hanging out, having to be in the same room without an excuse was a big appeal as well. So it started as a social thing and making friends and having fun. And I also found that I enjoyed it

and I felt even then that I I had maybe something that was setting me apart somehow. I couldn't define it. But it was like, oh, no, I like it. And I think I'm good at this. And, of course, when you're at that age, you're trying to find your identity. So to me, that was what it was. Some guys were great at the football team.

Some guys, you know, great sports, whatever, other artists, whatever it was. This was sort of shaping up to be my thing. And among all the fields, this allows you to try out a few different identities, the profession of acting. Yeah, which that sort of the understanding of the appreciation, I should say, of that came later as I got more and more into the actual training as opposed to just sort of, you know, doing a play or, you know, trying to figure out what I was, you know, what was going on. So what were you, were there things that were coming down the pike for you beyond, before you met David and Dune came around? I mean, were you up for a lot of things? Because Dune was literally the first film, right? It was the first film. No, I was, the trajectory for me was graduated from the college training program with a BFA in acting, as my diploma reads. I went to work at Ashland, the Shakespeare Festival, and I did Romeo and the boy in Henry 5 and Octavius Caesar and Julius Caesar.

So I had, straight out of school, I went to the Shakespeare Festival and did that for a season, and I came back from there and worked in Seattle on a Moliere, Tartouf. and it's while I was doing Tartuff that the casting agent that they had said a junior casting agent actually was sent to Seattle to look for they were in search for an unknown to play the role of Paul Atreides that was the big thing then and so

they were doing a city a nationwide search you know star search I wasn't quite bad but probably had probably had echoes of that but and so they put me on tape Elizabeth Lustig's in the image put me on tape

and David saw it and said oh I should meet him At what point? So you recall that first meeting with David? Yeah, definitely. We were at Universal on the back lot. And I had no knowledge of Los Angeles whatsoever. So I was in Seattle. I flew down. They flew me down from Seattle. I remember it was rainy and cold in Seattle because I think it was late December of 82. And suddenly I'm in sunny Southern California.

I was like, this is really nice. And we drove from LAX to Universal. I had no idea how that worked. and then on the back lot and there I was waiting for David to come back from Bob's Big Boy, his traditional daily routine of lunch at Bob's and in his office and I sat and talked we talked for about half an hour I guess

and Raphaelah Delerentis who was a producer on the film and David and I just sort of talked about what it was like to live in the Northwest because he was from up there as well and at the end of the conversation he handed me this very very large script and said there's you know there's four or five scenes. I want you to learn and come back in a few days and screen test.

And I was like, okay, I didn't know what a screen test was. I had no idea how I was going to make that happen. But I said, sure, great. And I flew back home and did the play that night in Seattle and then came back a few days later. It's interesting. And you talk about sort of those early experiences doing a bunch of Shakespeare. It probably behooved you well for something like Dune, which has like that kind of a, it's an amazing arc for a character. If you have the arguments about the film regardless of the book, you got to play from like a spoiled brat to a king, essentially. And that's a unique opportunity for a young actor.

David felt like I was able to do both of those things. Spoiled brat, certainly. But the king was still in question. It was also a book that I grew up with. So I was really familiar. I'd read it thousands, not thousands of times, but you know, at least 10 times. So I knew it inside back. forwards and forwards and inside out and I was every I think every kid my age sort of felt like

they were Paul you know so that was I felt like well of course this should happen you know this makes makes complete sense to me but it was it was David that really saw the the potential in there I you know I had no idea I'm really I was really green my first it's just fascinating to think about because what you got shot in Mexico City right and you've probably never been on a set like that since right right right frankly. Like, few people have. Like, it's funny you say that because I was think of it as like kind of the last

remnants of the kind of film. It was practical sets and it was thousands of extras probably or hundreds at least. No, it was huge production that way. And they were, as you said, practical full sound stages that were filled to the edge

with the structure. We were working in like the Emperor's Palace, for example. And yeah, I think the only thing that sort of rivaled it maybe and not really was the doors just in terms of kind of like that the giant machinery that rolls on, you know, and you feel like you're this little cog that sort of participating in this massive, massive undertaking, you know? What did, at the time in that production, did it feel like, um, was David frustrated?

I mean, did you sense that thing? I mean, you had nothing to refer it to or compare it to at the time. True, true. But at the same time, I'm just fascinated on a number of levels. You're working with people like, you know, Patrick Stewart and Jose Ferrer, like these kind of, like, they've been around the block. Yeah. And to people like you and Virginia, et cetera, who are, and Sean, who are very, uh, green. Yeah. Um, just like, what was the atmosphere on set?

Like, when did, when did people start to kind of like realize there was a problem? There might be a problem for, in what, in any respect. We, you know, it was, um, for me, I mean, you're right. I have nothing to, I had nothing to compare it to. And it seemed pretty like this is how it's done. you know, and I filmed for about seven months and then my work with my part of my was done. I did some reshoots when we came. Maybe when we were coming back and we were coming back for reshoots and I saw that they were trying to explain maybe or make a little clearer certain things and that I maybe got a sense that, ah, maybe, but not really.

I mean, I think I was listening to what everyone was telling me, which is going to be, this is going to, change your life, your career, you know, everything is going to be different, you know. And I was like, wow, okay. And I had to wait a good year and a half before it actually came into the theater. So, and there was nothing, I couldn't do anything between the rap of Dune and the release of Dune contractually. I couldn't do a film or television. Wow. That was one of the thing. It wants to preserve kind of the uniqueness. The anonymity, sure. And so I was like, okay, and I just took it started. It's like, okay, fine, I'll go do, I'll do play again. I'll go to theater, you know, which I did.

But I didn't bank anything. Right. You know, there's always the hedge, you know, and you've got to bank a couple of things just in case, you know. And so that was probably that, that was the, led to one of the more difficult times, which is when Dune came out, obviously not successful. And I had an agent, had a good agent, and I had done a film, and that was pretty much my calling card.

that was, I hadn't made anybody any money and I hadn't, I didn't have any real strong relationships because this was the first. So I started, it wasn't certainly from ground zero, but it was just kind of starting again. And luckily, or not so luckily, that that collaboration obviously worked so well, at least between the two of you, again, say what you will about the film if you love it or hate it, because you re-team soon thereafter for Blue Velvet. Yeah, and blessed David for coming back to me, really, and giving me another shot. He had given me the script while filming Dune. I think he felt like this is something he wanted to do with me. And I had some hesitations because of the graphic nature of it,

obviously. And again, I just completely knew. So I went from Dune to Blue Velvet. Those are pretty extreme different types of films. But I thought the script had great power of Blue Velvet, you know and I thought and David came back to me and and that sort of started things again and in a different path than the you know movie star blockbuster sci-fi hero it was a different route and for him as well I mean it's interesting I expect you don't have these kind of conversations with David but like I'm you can kind of understand why he gravitated towards an actor like you or even I think of Blue Bell that I think of Laura Dern because especially in that kind of film

it trades off sort of like image and sort of like perception versus reality like you guys are kind of like the most wholesome looking you know actors you could you could imagine and there but there's so much more going on for both your characters and for you as individuals I'm sure and I'm curious like having worked with him a bunch

and seen the way he operates and the kind of actors that respond well to him and he responds well to do you have a sense of sort of like what he's looking for in actors or the kind of actors that he enjoys being around? Because it is an eclectic, I mean, you just look at the cast of this latest incarnation of the Twin Peaks.

It's just fascinating to see the kind of the different kinds of actors that he tracks and yet it all kind of works together in some amazing way. I think his genius is casting. Well, that's one of the many things about him is genius. And I feel and I've heard this

spoken, and I think it's true, is that he really paints with his actors. So he's first an artist and then a filmmaker, I think. And so we are his, we're his palette that he's assembled. And from that he will then, you know, create this moving image. And I couldn't tell you what his criteria are, to be honest. I mean, all the people that I work with, they're decent people. They're all incredibly talented and usually in many different areas so photography or something they have other things that they do besides acting but I think honestly I think David just responds to the who they are as people and he does not audition using scenes that I've ever heard of maybe maybe it's happened but I'm not aware of it.

He meets, like he did for me the first time with Dune. He meets, he talks with you, he spends a little bit of time with you, gets a sense of who you are. And I think either he just gets a feeling, I think. Yeah. And says, yeah, I think, or I see them here, or I see them there. And he has no worry about whether or not you'll be able to, one would be able to successfully do the role.

He just knows that you can, you know. And because of that belief and that support, we all believe it. Do you think, I'm curious, you know, I've actually had the opportunity once or twice to talk to him, not in recent years, but back when, even when Indled Empire, he came into MTV, and it was a real tree for me to talk to him.

But he certainly has a cult of mystery about him, and he doesn't like to talk specifically about what things mean, et cetera. Do you think, does he enjoy that, like, that the cults around him? Does he cultivate that? Do you have any sense of that? Or is that just like, that's literally just what he is?

I think it's what he is. Over the years, I, I've asked that same question and I just feel like he's inspirational to me in that way because he follows his he follows his muse isn't the right word because that

sort of assumes it's something outside of him but it's whatever that inner voice is in him the idea he talks about the idea being the most important thing and you serve the idea and I looking back through his career I mean he's he's done it pretty much the way he has

wanted to do it. There have been times of think where he's found himself in situations that were challenging, but he, you know, he's done it. And it's remarkable, actually, in his own, terms. Absolutely. What was the first discussion or thing you read of Twin Peaks, the initial incarnation? Like, how was Cooper described to you in script form or verbally by, by David? In the first one in the first 89 and 90 um he was pretty much on the page to be honest he was described physically obviously the suit and everything um and it didn't didn't take a lot um you know being around david and and and getting you know knowing him and that his energy and i you know i use that with cooper the enthusiasm there and the positivity

and the absolute focus on certain experiences smells, sounds, tastes you know and that was all kind of within my wheelhouse to be honest and then it just he coop developed out of the relationships with Michael Onkeen you know

that dynamic how really different we were and yet how we worked together Miguel Ferreira, the late Miguel Ferrar same thing, just kind of how who is Coop based upon Albert you know so I found the character also in just the relationships that I had

with different characters and it was it was good there were times when I went on in directions that you know I look back on it and I still hadn't had much experience when we did Twin Peaks. I mean, I'd done Dune, Blue Velvet, the Hidden, I guess.

And I never remember if the doors, if I filmed the doors before or after we filmed Twin Peaks. It's right around there. And a little movie, unforgot, well, I'll never say that, but it's, I think it was called Don't Tell Her, it's me or something. It's sort of a crazy, who knows,

anyone will ever find it. But it hadn't done, a lot and certainly no television so to be honest television and film it wasn't with David directing it was no difference you know it's faster but it was no difference

so but I still felt pretty green trying to figure it out you know yeah so what's striking many things are striking about kind of the initial Twin Peaks phenomenon one one aspect is just like the

quickness of it like how quickly it ascended and then like two seasons that it's gone and it was just crazy and I'm just like does it feel when you look back

on that initial two seasons was it did it happen in the blink of an eye or did it feel like because I know that there's been talked

like you know David I think went off and made one of his films during the second season he came back and he directed the maybe the last episode or two yeah

he directed a couple of the second season as we were going through Mark directed a couple the second season it was a little it was, yeah, it was unusual in that we shot all the first season

which were, and again, I remember if there were seven or if there were six plus a two hour or what it was exactly, I should know, all before it ever went to air. So those were all banked and we were like, okay, well, they bought more than the pilot, so

that's great, that's a good time, but no really response. So all the stuff that happened was during the hiatus when it was rolled out and people went crazy for it. And this was back at a time when there wasn't as much, certainly no social media, and the only outlets where you really got a sense

of what was happening were sort of major publications, and I think maybe Premier Magazine at that time. So there's just a couple, Rolling Stone was doing. But suddenly we were all getting called to do covers or pictures and if we were women on Rolling Stone. I mean, it was like, oh, this craziness. It was just like, wow, this is, very, very strange.

This is what Dune was supposed to be. What happened? Dune had a lot and then nothing. So we went into the second season, I guess, everybody with an awareness that, wow, we got, you know, this is a show that's very, very, very popular, and we were all excited about it. And David and Mark, I think, I mean, I can't speak for them.

I don't, and to be honest, I remember kind of, but it felt to me like they had kind of made this pilot, and no one really thought it would go further, and they had things to do. Right. They weren't necessarily interested in running a show, neither of them. And I felt like, well, they assembled the group of writers and everyone, and we had guest directors, there's really talented guest directors, and they felt like, oh, that's where the show is going to go now

and should be fine, you know. And, of course, it kind of became more and more unstable and as it's trying to find its way. And, you know, once it's difficult, I think, when you have a writing staff and they've kind of charted everything out at the beginning of the season, to come in and really mess with that.

It's like you've sort of, spent a lot of time and effort at least trying to find a way through this and they were writing as they were going and it ultimately you know collapsed

and in the wake of that David of course comes back for for a firewalk with me and by that time it seems like you know there had been a lot of joy for you and kind of like the ascent and then it got a little complicated thanks to the fact of the

what you just described and the fact that maybe in correct and if I'm wrong you're already starting to feel like oh God like Cooper's great Coop's great but like typecasting like this could follow this could follow me right is that accurate to say a little bit I think there were certainly

I think certainly some of that in that he was as you said he's such an identified identifiable character so part of the movement was to go from the suit to become like a citizen of the town, whatever. And that was the direction that they wanted to go in.

And I was like, okay, okay, great, let's try him out of the suit. And in hindsight, of course, you realize once his suit's off and he sort of becomes, right, he's like, well, he's no longer Cooper. So, you know, all the things that we learned, I think, in the first go-round, were some of the things that we learned were then revisiting. it in Firewalk with me, but also remembered, I think, for the season,

what we're calling season three, or Twin Peaks, it's not really the return, but it's the next Twin Peaks, whatever it is, whatever they're going to call it. So those lessons, I think, in particular,

David and Mark writing all 18 hours and David directing all 18 hours. And, And that really is what the takeaway, I think, was from the first one. And that was the drum I was beating and the, like, the six months leading into the return, the, these new 18 episodes. Like, I kept, like, on Twitter, like, just reminding folks, like, every other week being like, just remember, there are 18 hours of David Lynch product coming sources. Like, like, it's been a while, but he did it all.

Like, it was just, it was unfathomable, and it has not disappointed. And I want to start to talk a little bit about this. this new season and these amazing performances that you've delivered. Thank you. But first, I mean, we don't have time to like literally talk about everything. And there are certainly some films in particular that I really adore of yours. Trigger effect, I think it's actually a really underrated film. Thanks. Yeah, that was, that was an attempt to tell an interesting story. David Kep, director, a screenwriter.

One of the biggest owners of the planet. Yeah, who I just ran into not too long ago in London, yeah. and I hadn't seen him for years and years. It looked good, but the same. So, and Dermott Mulroney and Elizabeth Hsu, yeah. So we were, and the idea was great. And I think David Kemp did a nice job with it. I think what it was trying to say was realized maybe, I don't know.

It's one of those things where you sort of say, what could have been done differently, but it was a great idea, I think. I think it does work. But I guess one of the questions I have in kind of like this the intermittent kind of years like one of the things that strikes me is like we've talked a lot about

this relationship with David so earlier in a career. You didn't work together until again, until this new incarnation of Twin Peace, which is kind of surprising to me. I mean, was there any like of his bad blood? It's too strong a word.

Did you guys ever talk? Did you yourself say like why isn't he calling for any of these other very interesting projects? I mean... I didn't. We've very had a friendship all the way through, and I just, I never wanted to, I always wanted David to find the voice of the person that he needed for the canvas that he was going to. Again, talking about what you were talking about before, like trusting and that he knows what he

needs and this. And I sort of felt that, you know, Blue Velvet was a very particular kind of thing, and he saw me, for that. Twin Peaks, obviously, for Cooper. And I think perhaps even for David, and I think this might be true, he's like, I'm Cooper, you know, and after that experience,

the other work that he did couldn't be Cooper somehow. And that's what I always thought, because we were fine. We visited so much. And very fun to watch Laura Dern, who they started on Blue Velvet, become his muse, you know, a female muse. And we share, now, and to work together on some piece.

Yeah, it's like to be able to work together on that. And not only, not just any character. I mean, the fact that she's done animation. Right, which was genius when I first heard that. They didn't tell, I didn't know that for a long time into filming, and then they sort of, you know, reveal it to me. And then, yeah, even in the watching of it, as you well know, like no one has known anything, like, from episode to episode.

There was a lot of conjecture, like, out there, like, wait, we keep hearing about Diane. Could it be her? Could it? Yeah, and I saw it on social media, too. And I was like, wait, wait for it. You guys are in for such a treat. So, okay, so let's start to talk a little bit about this new incarnation. We can talk about everything up until the finale, which, as we tape this and as we release

this, is we're about to get the last two hours. But, hey, there's still plenty to talk to. And I'm happy I'm talking to you after at least the last week's episode, which was I found really like emotional and moving and I it's actually I think the only episode I've come back and watched again because there's just so many moments that I just really enjoyed and really very much about the return of Coup yeah but you you know you play three different characters essentially this season um so god there's a lot to ask you I didn't even know where to start we can do an hour on Dougie I love Dougie who doesn't love Dougie who doesn't

love it, Dougie, come on. I'm hoping for some Halloween costumes with Dougie this year. I know you like a good Halloween costume. Yeah, I do. I'm a big, big supporter. Well, and I'm shared with my son. I think I've always liked Halloween,

and he's sort of like amped it up for me. He's nine, so he's, you know, perfect. He's skews perfect for Halloween. So he presented to you, I know you are probably the only actor, I think, in the cast, maybe that he did give you the entire scope of the series, too, or all the scripts, et cetera? I think so, yeah, I think so.

The initial contact with the script was actually going to the production office, sitting and reading and leaving the script there. So I spent five or six hours with many cups of coffee. I think I haven't had a pot of coffee going through and was just mesmerized all the way through. It was great. It was 500 pages, but what a great read. Had he already told you, like, Coop's not coming in until 15 hours. I don't get too excited about that as much. Yeah, no, I knew that it was going to be a while.

Yeah. And, but at that time, I had signed on for nine episodes. Right, because it was, yeah, I think it was nine. So it didn't seem like such a long time to wait. Right. And obviously it became double that. And I too felt the pressure, you know, just certainly over social media. just of people were

I mean it was a gamble I guess although I don't know if David felt that way but the fact that Cooper doesn't appear until right near the end I knew it was coming and I I couldn't I couldn't say anything that would give that away to people I wanted to

but I just I said no I got to hold it tight and hope that people just stay the course but what happened was interesting was that people began to like fall in love with Dougie and sort of like oh gosh Dougie if Google's back what happens to Dougie so then there was this oh no what do we do um which was fun which was kind of an unexpected I didn't I didn't really anticipate that what happened so the moment he started standing in the elevator the wrong way I fell in love with Dougie

there was some beautiful physical comedy stuff that needed to be played absolutely straight which we did without any kind of a wink or intending to the camera. And it really, really paid off. It was quite a lesson in patience, really, for me. Yeah. So did you, did you find these other two characters as rewarding in their own ways? Did you come around to them and kind of, yeah.

Oh, yes. Yeah, actually, I was, I would, when David was telling me about kind of what he was wanting me to do, I, and we approach particularly the dark Cooper, evil Cooper, I think David knew I could do the doggie, do the doggie. But the Mr. C, when he spoke about him to me, he got very serious and said, you're going to have to do something very, you know, this is intense, you know, and I could tell that it was, it was going to be something challenging. And I was I was thrilled because that opportunity

does not come to someone who looks like me and has done the work I've done. Right. You either have to make that happen or you have to somehow show it to them in an audition. Right. And with them,

I'm meaning, you know, Hollywood at large. And even then, even if you show them, they're likely to acknowledge it, but opt for the person that we've seen that we've seen before. So I looked at this as

an incredible opportunity to do something I would never have had a chance to do. And I took it real seriously. And David and I worked together on creating someone an entity, a person that would be truly scary, truly frightening. And

that was a really, as an actor, it was a great challenge. And I, watching it, I'm pleased with how it turned out. We made the right decisions and took the right steps. It's interesting. I mean, like, especially this new incarnation, I would say even more so than the initial two seasons, is deliciously obtuse and mysterious and, you know, like, yes, there's some literal things

and plot that you can glean from it, but, like, also embrace kind of the mystery, embrace kind of what the unexplained, like that's the key, I think, to enjoying David Lynch and, again, trusting and kind of mood and emotion, even more so than like plot. But I'm like, is that something that you, from an acting perspective, you can play? Is that challenging in a way? You know, I mean, it's like, I would think it's in some ways it's easier like, okay, this character changes from A to B. He goes from this room to this room. This is like, this works in our human normal world. But there's so much interesting. Twin Peaks that doesn't really make sense that feels like is unexplainable. Is that present unique challenges

to an actor? And especially, like, your director's not going to explain it, I don't think. You can't go to him and be like, what does this mean? That's not going to get an answer. I've learned over the times working with David, the less questions, the better. Only when I really, really need to know something will I go to him now. Before, when we're during Dune, I think

I wore out my welcome by asking so many questions. but um you know the it's a mix of it's a mix of answers one is that these places and these visions and these what we experience um do make sense in that they're consistent um now i can ask david exactly what it is or i can surmise make it make up my own yeah kind of i idea of what it is. Both work. I kind of like the idea of making up my own and going with it. And then if it's not right or off a little bit, whatever, David come and say, think of it more like this. And he'll help, you know, kind of nudge you back to where he, kind of the boundary is

kind of where he wants you to be. But I, but I've, you know, I was entrusted with blue velvet. but I was interested with the journey. You know, it's going to be through Jeffrey's taking the audience on this journey. It's sort of the same thing with this, Coops taking the audience on this journey, or Coops, I should say, on this journey. So I just make it real for myself and concentrate really on the character and what the character knows or doesn't know. Part of the joy of it, of course, is that in life,

We don't necessarily know what's going to happen five minutes from now. Sure. And sort of the same thing on a set with David. It's like there's a lot of the unknown. And he actually loves that and embraces and actually hopes for those happy accidents we call them. So, and occasionally you'll get one of those

and most of the time they stay in the film. Have you been watching along with the rest of us or have you seen these episodes in advance? I've been watching along with everyone. Amazing. So what was it like for you to watch this? past week's episode with your long-awaited kind of return of Coop

which again, it was like that hospital scene and the goodbye to Naomi's character was just so beautiful and the music kicks in right it works. I mean, was that emotional for you as well? I mean, it was great to see him back again. I felt like in some ways

I feel like he's more David now, David Lynch now, in some ways the Coop. And I, it's not that I'm channeling him so much, but I think the, David comes from such a place of love when he directs and, and care and joy that I just drew from that, really. and I think even as we're talking now I'm recognizing that Coop is strongest

when he is working with David Lynch as a director and there's some kind of a channeling or a symbiotic thing but I pick it up from David because that's the way he is in the world and I think a lot of it is Coop as well So I feel it resonate in David, and then I just channel that somehow, you know?

That's what it felt like to me. It's also like a, I feel like this represents like the best of like this kind of like the 90s nostalgia. You know, like we have like every like 90s show has been like revamped and brought back. And like on one end you got four house. That's fine for some folks. We've got Twin Peaks. So if nothing else from this like this embracing of like the 90s, I'm glad it's brought Twin Peaks back.

And one of the things that I find, again, moving and interesting is with this passage of time, is seeing a lot of actors that we haven't seen a lot of. Like, some of these other actors, like, don't really act that much at all anymore. And, like, to just see their bodies and faces change. And sadly, some of the performers in this have passed even since shooting it. I mean, it's great to see Miguel have such a great performance. and as much as he gets to do in this, he's fantastic. I agree.

I don't really have a question, except it's striking to me that it's a document of the passage of time, too, in a very special way. I think you've said it in a perfect way. I think there is an acknowledgement that we are of our own mortality, you know, with this in some ways. That time does move forward and we lose people. And it gives it weight, not in a bad way, but just kind of gravity, I think, or Gravitas, whatever, that is acknowledged, you know, because it is years later, you know.

And at the same time, you see these similar dynamics that are playing out, and it's just like life. You know, you think about the Everett McGill, Peggy Lipton, you know, that relationship. You know, it's like, it's still going on. You know, he's an example of both, actually, and you don't see that much, you know, and that's too bad because they're wonderful. you know yeah what about for you like in terms of Cooper's place and Twin Peaks place in your career like in the intermittent years you know are you at a different place in terms of like

not accepting is the wrong word but like you know we alluded to this a little bit of like typecasting and kind of like encountering that and trying to carve out a unique different career in film and you've certainly had some great work and work with some great filmmakers we mentioned the doors Oliver Stone also I mean like you know know fascinating. I'm sure you have like, again, hours worth of Oliver Stone and Val Kilmer stories. Many I couldn't speak about it. Right. I always mentioned on this podcast. But I do love them dearly. Oh my God. Both of them. Both of them. One of the, uh, my favorite plane flight

I've ever taken was, uh, when I happened to be seated next to Oliver Stone from New York to L.A. And he talked my ear off and the most fascinating, insane way. I mean, he's just like, No, he's an extraordinary human being. Very interesting fellow, very complicated fellow. Yes, complicated might be the word. Sorry, so I got sidetracked. But, like, in terms of, I mean, did you ever have, like, were you ever sick of Twin Peaks or Agent Cooper the way that followed you around?

And are you at a different place now? I mean... I don't think I was ever sick of it. I think at the time that it happened, I think I was 29, 30 years old. And I was trying to, you know, build a career, and that means opportunities, you know, and a definite flexing against any kind of attempt to, you know, typecast or fit me into a mold or say you're this or that. So I've definitely felt it at that time and made a concerted effort to try and, you know, do different things. which I did, to greater or lesser degrees of success or skill.

And then, you know, time goes on, and I've had an extraordinary career, great, good fortune, and choices and decisions are made based on other things apart from just my own, you know, selfish needs. You know, and so I was involved in a lot of really cool things. Sex and the City was really a lot of fun. It happened to be filming in New York, and I was there, and I just met the woman who was going to become my wife, and I said, well, this is actually perfect. So that worked out, and I got to work with some extraordinary people

and being in one of the shows that's going to be around forever. Sort of similar with Desperate Housewives. And so... And then something like Portlandia comes along. And then Portlandia comes along, and I'm like, ah, and I've never shied away from trying different things. You know, I may be afraid of it, but I'm like, yeah, let's give it a shot. How I met your mother was one of those. I'd never done that kind of stuff before.

So I had a great time with it, also work with some terrific people. But Portlandia was one of those where I signed onto something. I didn't really know what it was. I didn't know what we're going to shoot in Portland, but it's not Portland, and you're the mayor, and you have those funny things happen and I was like and who Fred and Kerry I mean I know who they were

but what do you do and we play different characters and we're going to interact and I was like okay you're all really super smart and very talented I'm just going to throw my lot in with you and off we went

and just turned to be something really really spectacular so yeah there's been I think now maybe you know the idea of I still have

the desire and drive to do different things, you know, and different characters and try different things and I think with Twin Peaks now and playing really different people, Mr. C. and Dougie, it's certainly given, whether it affects the outside world I don't know, but it's given me just as an actor

the kind of the strength isn't the right word but the belief I guess that this is something yeah you actually I can do that you know I've always considered myself a really late bloomer you know and so I think maybe I'm finally like at this age going okay I think I'm ready to try something different I've got some range no but I must be validating to see like the amazing like reception that, I mean, there are, like, think pieces every other day I'm seeing online about, like, both the show and what you've been. Yeah, there's a lot of really nice comments about it, and I think people have been inspired to write some really interesting things. I know some of the writers in New York Times, and, I mean, many, many different publications that are writing about it in a very thoughtful and, I think, kind of appreciative way that what they're witnessing here and something, again, new for television. Absolutely.

I would expect nothing less from you and David. Certainly not from David. It's been a real pleasure to catch up with you today, Kyle. As I said, from the start, I've been a fan. And I'm excited to, I'll be there Sunday night watching the last two hours. Great. Me too. And I hope this does afford you the opportunity to do even more disparate, random, bizarre, fantastic, different kinds of roles because you've certainly proven that you've got that in you.

Thank you. I appreciate that. Thanks again for your time today. Please. It was been really nice to talk with him. All right. Thanks, ma'am. Cheers. And so ends another edition of happy, sad, confused. Remember to review, rate, and subscribe to this show on iTunes

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