Happy Sad Confused - Logan Lerman

Episode Date: July 25, 2016

The delightful Logan Lerman (Percy Jackson film series, Perks of Being a Wallflower) joins Josh to chat about the state of film, the difficult choices he has to make choosing roles, and much more. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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or go to explorevolvo.com. Don't miss Swiped, a new movie inspired by the provocative real-life story of the visionary founder of online dating platform Bumble. Played by Lily James, Swiped introduces recent college grad Whitney Wolfe as she uses grit and ingenuity to break into the male-dominated tech industry to become the youngest female self-made billionaire. An official selection of the Toronto International Film Festival, the Hulu original film Swiped, is now streaming only on Disney Plus. Hey guys, and welcome to another edition of Happy Sagan Fused. I'm Josh Horowitz. Thanks for tuning into my podcast here with Sammy, as always. Hey, Sammy.

Hi, guys, we're on the road. We are. This is very weird because, like, it feels a little surreal. We're sitting here, usually we talk in my silly little office in New York. We're sitting on some very chic couches right now in San Diego at Comic-Con. And we're taking a quick break to record the intro from back to back to back to back times a thousand interviews here for MTV. I'm literally sitting in a spot that Alan Tudik was sitting in like 45 seconds ago.

Yeah, literally about 45 seconds ago, Alan Tudick was here. It's warm still. He was delightful, by the law. Wasn't he just a dream? He really actually was. And we should say by the time you hear this, Comic Con will have just ended and hopefully we'll both still be alive. It's not looking likely at the moment.

We're tired but very happy because it's been so many fun interviews, and virtually all of them are available on MTV's Facebook page. You can check them out basically in their entirety, really in their entirety. We're just running it all full chunks. And so far, I mean, there'll be some more that run after this, but you have to all watch the Will Arnett one. The life-changing for everyone, Will Arnett interview. Which felt magical. It honestly was. It will bring world peace, I think.

I'm going to need to bring Will in for the podcast because that was about 15 or 20 minutes of magic and I need more in my life. Yeah, seriously. You guys have something special. So that was fun. And yeah, I mean, Peruse the MTV Facebook because there's a lot of fun stuff there.

We've talked to Cardelveen and Dane DeHan for Valerian. Some big ones coming up tomorrow. Big ones coming up. Tom Hiddleston. Oh, baby. It's the magic word. Every show has to come up. So, yeah.

So check that out. And we're really. proud of the stuff we've done here, but we need to rest. But on to this week's show, we're going to toss to a wonderful interview I did recently with Logan Werman. Logan, of course, star of Brooks being a Wallflower, the Percy Jackson films, someone that I really think is both an exceptional actor and just like a sweet, cool guy and also just a big old film geek. And it was fun to bring him in. And It's always fun just like each show, each episode, kind of has its own vibe and energy.

Last week was Nicholas Holt, which went off the rails in the best possible way and was like 45 minutes of like stupidity and insanity and fun. You bring that out in people. Well, maybe. But no, I was going to say this week with Logan is a really like thoughtful, deep conversation about like the state of film and studio movies and franchises and like all the kind of like, frankly stuff that like, that like, that. someone like Logan is trying to like resist even having done some studio stuff and he's really really frank and open about um the kind of choices he has to make as an actor and the kind of material he's offered and um yeah that's all you can ask for an interview subject someone as like open as that i feel like Logan's an old soul no totally seriously like i met him a few years ago

we talk about it in the podcast when he was kind of like just i think he had just done percy or He was about to do Percy, and I clicked with him immediately. We were, like, he's much younger than me because I'm 95 years old, but we have, like, very similar film tastes, and he's someone that I always love geeking out with. I feel like he'll win an Oscar one day. Yeah, he's a great actor. And if you haven't seen Perks of being a Wallflower, for instance, check it out. That's an underseen film that he's great in, and Emma Watson, and, of course, Edgneller.

Yeah, exactly. So that's coming up. I do want to say this isn't going to affect anyone listening to the podcast. podcast, but a little bit of a changing the guard. This is the last episode of Happy Second Fused under the Earwolf banner, and there's no ill will or badness. The good news is that Happy Second Fused is continuing MTV's podcast network, which has launched, is going to be kind of taking over Happy Saganfused. As you know, that's my day job as working at MTV. And it's just kind of a natural progression. So it's going to end up, as part of MTV, you're not

going to really honestly notice a difference. It's going to be the same feed, et cetera. So don't change anything in your life. But I did want to take this opportunity to thank the great folks at Earwolf, in particular, Paul Shearer, who made my day when he came to me and said, I love your podcast, which I had been self-producing. I wanted to be part of Wolf Pop and Earwolf. And he's been nothing but awesome to me. And Adam Sachs at Earwolf and Chris Bannon and the whole crew that have helped in terms of making it sound. God. Way, God. Thank Jesus, God. But in all seriousness, they've really helped and made this show sound great much better than I could ever do it since I know nothing about anything technological.

So thanks to those guys, happy Sag Confused. We'll just continue and get bigger and better and sillier and dumber. She'll live on. Yes, it will never die. So yes. You said it won't have a difference moving to MTV, but actually the only difference is it's now hosted by Taiga instead of Josh Harwitz. So content-wise won't be too different. but the voice might sound different. We're co-hosting.

I'm going to have a meeting greet with Tyga this week. We're going to see how it goes. First, he's going to have to tell me what he... The chemistry test. He's going to ask me what songs he sings, and I'm just going to stare at him blankly. It is a he, right? It's a man.

Yes. I don't know. I know. I know. I don't tell anybody at MTV that I don't know who Tyga is. It's fair. Movies, guys. Makes you special.

I like movies. Okay. Enough chit-chat. We've got some San Diego Comic Connists to get to, but I hope you guys enjoy this episode with the delightful Logan Wormon. Double L. Double L in the house.

Bye. Bye. Talk, let's talk. I'm just taking in your office still. I'm sorry. I'll stop looking around. No, this is a homework. It says a lot about a person, you know?

Definitely. What you choose to put on your wall. Yeah, it says a lot. I think, yeah, it's all cool shit. I think, you know, we're cut from the same cloth. I was going to say, I think our, I don't know if you remember. It was special for me, probably meaningless to you in your busy life. Our first meeting, as I recall, was in kind of an anonymous office at MTV.

I don't even know when it was, if it was pre-Persy Jackson or what. Probably was. I think it was pre-Persy Jackson. I think it was around that time. Yeah. Because I do remember at the Times Square office there, right? Exactly. Which is kind of nice.

You guys aren't there anymore. Yeah, it's really nice that we're not there anymore. I mean, like, sure, Times Square is great, but it's like. a bitch to get to. Yeah. And overwhelming, just extremely overwhelming. Yeah, the only thing, I mean, I'm... Sensory overload when you were there.

That's exactly how to put it. I always say, like, that last, like, three or four blocks in my commute two times square turned me into, like, the worst version of myself. Yeah. I was, like, hacking at people. Like, all the time? Like, all the time. Yeah.

Most days. It's amazing. I'm as charming as I still am. Yeah, dude. You must be much happier. Much, much, much happier. Can you see the weight all... Lift it off.

my shoulders. Yeah. I can, I can, there's a, there's a, there's an energy of just, uh, you know, comfort. You, how long have you been here in this office now? About two years now. All right. So I'm glad we finally got. Oh, I didn't realize it was, it's been that long. Yeah, it's all good. No, but I was going to say, like, um, I truly do remember that meeting because, um, I don't know if I'd seen you and anything. I'd probably seen three stand a human by them, but I remember like, you know, there's a pretty significant age difference between the two of us. But I remember like the third person in that meeting was like the head of like MTV talent and afterwards was like, it was like, you and Logan really got along crazy.

Like, you were like speaking the same language. It was like almost bizarre. And I'm like, yeah, I'm like 15 years older than him, but like we basically have the same brain. You know, it's, uh, it's funny. You know, you just, you meet, you just meet people sometimes. And especially when you're, I know, we're both film people. We like movies and stuff. Yeah. It's easy to get along, it's a shame when you meet someone like in your position or if you meet someone in my position and they can't really. Don't speak the language or don't really care. They don't speak the language. You don't really care? Yeah. It's kind of a shame. Yeah, because I mean, it comes through in our conversations and also conversations I've seen that you have with others

where like it sounds like you're just thrilled to be part of this whole process and be like, I mean, you grew up with this stuff, just loving the stuff, obviously making the stuff, but you're as much a fan of it as a participant. it seems. Totally, yeah. Has being in the business, as it were, changed your appreciation? Like, can you, knowing how the sausage is made, ruin your appreciation of film at all? I don't think it ruins it. I just have a, I just have a different perspective on the process. I actually think that, if anything, it's made me more forgiving of mediocre films. Totally. Because they're so hard to make. You know how much it's into it. Yeah, it happens

it's still it's a it's always a it's always a labor of love for someone a part of it but it's hard to make a good movie and um yeah um you know yeah i think knowing the the ins and outs and the politics of a business definitely yeah definitely make it a little um no because there's always positives but there's negatives as well you know and the decisions why movies some movies are made right And the, you know, yeah, the process and the politics behind decision-making, I think particularly in the studio world. Yes.

Especially right now where everything is so repetitive and boring. Yeah. Most studio films are repetitive and boring, you know. But I understand it's business, there's other, you know, there's reasons for, I guess, the approach that some studios have to, towards what they're going to invest in in any given year. And I respect that process, but it's also just frustrating to see that there's not a lot of original film,

a lot of opportunity for original filmmaking in the studio world. It is a strange time we're living in where, like, and I appreciate television as much as the next guy, I watch a ton of great shows and there's too much, in fact, to watch. Yeah, yeah. But, you know, my first love, and I would assume yours, is like that, like, there's something in that two-hour format, roughly, give or take, that projection on a big screen that we don't want to lose. It's important to me. And I don't think that we're going to lose it because, I mean, I don't know.

I mean, maybe we will. I don't, I can't, I don't know the perspective of the youngans nowadays, you know, people being born into this world where we have streaming. services and virtual reality and Instagram videos and Instagram stars. I don't know if I hope that that generation is still going to want to go to see movies 10 years from now, 20 years from now. I mean, do you feel a disconnect from your generation in a way? Because you are part of that, like age-wise part of that generation. No, I'm a part of the turning point in that.

I really, I had, you know, I was right at the, right as it was all changing, you know, right as everything, right as, you know, I mean, I grew up, you know, half of my childhood without, you know, without the internet really. You know what I mean? Like a good point. You know what I mean? Like, then it all just started unfolding. There certainly weren't like vine stars and YouTube stars. No, that's, I'm a little late, you know, I'm past that generation. You know, I'm 24, so, yeah, I just, I have a little bit of an old school love for filmmaking and the way it's presented to me, you know, was presented to me, and it still is, presented, that I'm passionate about. I think that the movie theater experience is important, but at the same time, I don't, you know, I don't, you know, I still like, you know, what's happening, you know, right now. Sure.

And there's different platforms for films and television shows, and that's fine, that's cool, but I still want there to be movies and movie theaters, and I want films to be shot on film and, you know, good projection and all those things. But it's a shame that a lot of the films that end up in theaters are studio films. And those studio films are just so forminous and business driven. It's just a bunch of executives sitting in their offices going, what properties, and they refer to their films as properties and titles, do we have that we can reformat and tackle or whatever this year?

It's also repetitive. I'm sick of all these superhero films, all this stupid shit. shit. I mean, some of, you know, every now and then you're surprised by one, but most of the time, it's just the same, a remake of the same thing you saw last year. And it's kind of hypnotizing. You still want to go and see it and you're curious about it. Right. And it's fun, you know, bang, bang action stuff. But I crave a little bit. I crave something. a film that's going to surprise me and I feel bad for the

writers and directors that you know aren't being championed and aren't being supported when they're probably have a great idea when I also two minds of it were like there's these amazing filmmakers that I respect and I wear both hats

because like you know I I'm totally a geek and a fanboy and I and I grew up with superheroes and like to see like them realize this is cool But at the same time, like, I sometimes, like, I feel like, I'll give this as an example. Like, you know, you worked with James Mangold, who, you know, obviously he did a recent 10 to Yuma. It was amazing. That itself a remake.

But, but worked. Like, I love that he did Wolverine. It was a good movie and I'm kind of, I think it's cool. He's doing another Wolverine. But at the same time, it's like, I kind of want to see what that guy does on his own. Like, it's, it's a hard. It's really difficult. And it's really.

It's really difficult. I mean, you know, films are being sold to audiences based on their source material. Right. And the fan base regarding the characters. Right. Whether it came from a comic book or an animated series or an old successful TV show, whatever the fuck it is. But, you know, we used to have movie stars. you know yeah and that's that would justify the development and and and financing of of a

original idea yeah because you have Brad Pitt starring in it and you know people are going to go see it for him yes but now the industry is trying to eliminate the movie star you know yeah and therefore we're becoming for business so reliant on the uh the character or the source materials fan base rather than building an actor's fan base, which would then also support original ideas. Yeah. And it's like, you know, whatever. Screw it.

Independent film world is awesome right now. And there's so many good movies being made. It's just no one's getting paid to do them. Right. And everybody is suffering the, you know, not suffering. It's just they, they, nobody, yeah, there's, it's hard to make a living making independent films, but, well, well, everything's changing. Everything's so complicated. We'll turn this sad conversation around in a second about the happiness.

No, no, there's a silver line and this is great movies. There is, including, and we're going to talk about yours, which you know I'm a fan of. Thank you. But I'm curious, like, as that relates to your career with our conversation, the first, like, 10 minutes, like, you know, Percy Jackson, obviously, you know, IP right there. And, and, you know, we talked about you were up for Hans, and Spider-Man, all that, you go for all that stuff, like as you should. I mean, they, I mean, I'm not going to say no to them if they gave me an opportunity

because those things, those opportunities, you know, they could be a great movie. You never know. I mean, it all depends on, like, filmmaker and those things, but even then, I would, being a part of that type of film gives you a thing called you this, like, international value for financiers, which it comes down to. this whole market, which I'm sure you're already familiar with, you know, right, but I'll explain it, but, you know, about, you know, different countries. And if you're an actor, if you have value in a certain country, then the theater owners of that country are going to invest in your

film, independent film, whatever it is, based off of your value in that country. And then you can get your film financed through this, like, group funding of movie theater owners and finance years. And doing a film like, you know, like, you know, Spider-Man, Han Solo stuff allows you as an actor to then have the ability to greenlight films that you want to make. Yeah. Which doesn't mean you have the talent to attract a filmmaker to give you the opportunity, but it gives you an edge of everyone else. Like you have. You have. more value therefore you know you have more of uh you know your front you're you're you're at the top of the list in terms of getting the film made and it's strategic for the filmmaker to to get you

involved and it's a good position to be in that said now they're you know these machines are only investing these machines these studios are only investing in these characters like hansolo and stuff you know and therefore they make you sign like seven picture deal so you want a time to actually do anything you want time to do anything so it's almost like like it's It's not worth it anymore. You know, I mean, I mean, to do something like that, unless you really just want to be doing one thing for the rest of your career. And it's hard to find time in between because you shoot the film and then you're promoting it.

And then you're getting ready for the next one you're going to be a part of. Yeah. And then there's, it's not creatively satisfying. Well, and also, like, I mean, when you go in for some of these. But hell, you make a lot of money and great. It's not wonderful. But, like, and when you go in even for, like, a reading or like an audition, don't you even have to sometimes sign a contract that, like, if they choose.

You basically signed on before you even go for an audition. It's a really sick thing, I think. It's kind of odd. Yeah, yeah. You as an actor for like a screen test, you sign a contract that says this is what you're going to be making and all the specific definitions of your contract are already worked out with your lawyer and the studio and how many pictures, how many movies you're going to, you know, this contract is good for.

And then you sign it, therefore you're attached to it. And then the studio has the choice between who they want to pick. You know what I mean? It's like, no power for you at all. Yeah, it's really a flawed system for actors. And it's, yeah, yeah. But it's an ever-evolving, you know, industry. And you've just got to find ways to make it work out better for,

all parties. Well, and segueing into like the business and the business of independent film, indignation is a great film, first of all. Thank you. And some super performances from you and Sarah Gaden and Tracy Letts and Philip Rothbook, great source material, James Seamus first directing effort. It's got a great pedigree and it works. Yeah, it's, uh, yeah, I really had no expectations with it in terms of like if it would end up in theaters or not. And it did. And I'm really proud of it. And people seem to like. it, which is cool. It's just different from, yeah, the formulaic shit that's out there. And I'm proud to be contributing to those films at this time in the film industry. And I think, yeah,

I hope people go see it. You know, I really don't know if they will. I really hope they do. I think it'll find an audience. I mean, I think that hopefully the reviews and the word of mouth. and hey, your name will help, you know, get it out there. I hope so. What, in a nutshell, what's the attraction of the material like this? Because you're also an EP on this, we should say. This is your first, congratulations. Your executive producer, which is awesome.

Thank you. I mean, the strength of the writing attracted me to the material. It's a beautifully written script. It's entertaining, for sure, for me. Like, I was entertained reading it, and I thought it could be an entertaining movie. but it also had um bold choices and uh rich well-defined characters right and uh in particular this is one scene in the middle of the movie where um where well so basically should i like summarize the film a little bit so 1951 right 1551 and movies about this this young opinionated

dude who who is attending a conservative college far away from home and he kind of is at odds with the administration and falls in love with a troubled girl and what not

and there's this beautiful scene in the middle of the script that's incredibly long and intense and this is this like battle of sorts, this verbal battle between the dean of this college and my character and it's just epic. How long does it last? Because I mean, this is what I sent you a note about this because it's amazing. It's an amazing sequence. I know that when we were shooting it, they were about 20 minute takes, but I think it's around like 18 minute scene or

something like that. And it's just, it's just epic. Yeah, it's like the action set piece. If you were doing a transformist movie, this is like the set piece of the film. Yeah, this is like the big action scene in a way. And richly rewarding from an audience perspective because like as I'm watching and I'm like, I don't know. I didn't know a format. I hadn't read the book. I didn't know you read the script obviously so I didn't know when this was ending and like it just builds and it's just

it's just so richly satisfying to see hear dialogue like this and see two performers of different generations like battle it out and an intellectual discussion. It's just and each is right in their own way and it's just it's it's great. Yeah it's a yeah it's a really it's a really killer scene and

it really, I guess it was one of the most attractive elements of the script, you know, and after reading the script, I got it, you know, I got it, sent to me, I read it, I met with our director the next day, and we just started working on it, you know? It just kind of happened, and I was just excited to do something that was different than everything else that I was reading out there that had real substance and something that I want to see. and I think other people would want to see. And, yeah, it's just nice. I mean, it's terrifying, though, at the same time, you know.

Do you shoot it all in one take? It's scary. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We didn't, you know, break it up. Yeah. You know, we would do 20-minute takes, and it would be the whole thing. We'd run through it each time. And, yeah, it was really epic and terrifying and really fulfilling at the end of the day

to get through it and you know not screw up so I think uh I think it's one of the I think it's it's worth seeing the movie is worth seeing for that scene almost yeah well and you can just go for that and have a great time but there's a lot more that the film has to offer to I know that you um generally aren't you're one of those actors that isn't itching to watch their own work generally yeah but you're an EP on this that so I would assume you have to kind of see this one Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah, I've seen it. And you know what? I didn't have a problem with it. You know, it's not that I have a problem with watching myself. I mean, I guess I do a little bit. I mean, it's just that, you know, a lot of the work that I've done lately has been pretty intense work, I guess. And when I'm working, I try to give as much of myself to the film as possible and feel as much as I can.

and just be present. And when I'm watching a film like this, which is an intense film where I had to be very vulnerable and whatnot, when I'm watching it, I'm like flooded with that same stress I felt on the day. Sure, exactly. And it's hard to watch my stuff comes out. Yeah, I don't want to like watch myself.

I don't know. It's like, you know, you don't want to watch video of yourself crying. It's like, why would you want to do that? It's uncomfortable, especially in the theater with other people. But I was able to remove myself from this one, and I enjoyed seeing it. I got talked into it. I got this whole pep talk from our producer and my good friend, Anthony Bragman. And he, yeah, yeah, he gave me, I was going to skip out watching the film when we were at Sundance,

and he gave me this whole speech, beautiful speech, this like, you know, total like McConaughey, you know. like talking to Wall Street like this like you know that football movie he did whatever you know

we are martial like you know Kurt Russell you know miracle moment where he's like you gotta do it and inspired me

to sit down and watch it and I really enjoyed it and I'm glad I stayed to watch I think I'm gonna try to do that more often yeah

and and not you know be so self serious well you can't can't deny yourself the opportunity of watching yourself perform your first orgasm

on screen yeah yeah it's funny like that was that was funny man like you know the face or whatever.

That seems like the worst. I mean, I've never had to do research before where I'm like looking at myself having an orgasm, trying to figure out how to do this on camera. It was like a weird, weird amount of research you have to do for something. Do I want to get more details on this? We can talk about it if you want.

What is the research? Some of the, yeah, some of it I can't talk about. But I actually, you know, I had to like, you know,

I wanted to know, I needed to really, I know, you don't like think about. you know how you are like what your face looks like and things like that you don't think about that when you're in a moment sure naturally you know if you're having an orgasm and whatnot um so I had to be more aware and present during my own so that I could do it justice on camera and watch movies where they do it but they literally have this like shot where it like zooms in like really

close on like right into my eyeball watching me come and it's really quite uh intimidate you know it's like an intimidating day you know when you're approaching that it's like shit i have to learn how to do this uh you know on camera it's so weird man the saddest thing is i can i can actually sadly relate to this because what it's me this dovetails with both parts of our conversation thus far the orgasm discussion and the commercialism aspect because i had to once do a MTV promo, like an actual, like paid advertisement for a gum, like a gum. And the, and the, and the slogan was like, masticating. It was like, that was their thing. Okay. So I had to pretend to be like basically getting off on chewing gum. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was the worst day

of my life. And you want to do it, you want to do it right. You know, I don't know. I don't know. It's like, I was like thinking like, how do you really, you know, what do I do? Or like, what is it like? And it's weird to pay attention to it like that. But, um, yeah, it's so odd. But, Yeah, yeah. I came on camera. A bunch of times. A bunch of times. Congratulations. It's good. Your heart out, Daniel Day Lewis. Yeah. Yeah. There we go. Check out. Did you do that in Lincoln? I didn't see that scene. You know, I believe it's in the, it's in the, uh, the director's cut. Yeah. The extended. Yeah. Hey, you know, Lincoln was a freak, man. Yeah. A freak. I don't talk about. Mary Todd? Yeah. Oh, my God. Crazy. Some good, uh, some good, uh, good inspiration for. So, um,

everyone's late-night activities. You alluded to, you know, like, some tough roles. My sense is, one of like the last, you know, on-camera interviews I think we did was for Fury. And you took a little break after that. My sense is that that film maybe broke you a little bit. Oh, totally. You know, I was really exhausted and I gave a lot of myself to that movie. And at the end of it, I was just like, I wasn't inspired.

Yeah. You know, I just kind of didn't feel like working. in film at all. I was like, I didn't know. I mean, no, not in film. I didn't feel like being an actor. I really wasn't sure. I just needed to find myself.

But it's not like I just took time off. I did have work to do because once I was done, I had to do a press tour for Noah because Noah was coming out. And then I had a bunch of months off and then enjoyed myself and traveled a little bit. And then I had to do press for for Fury later on that year. So there was still work going on. It's not like I was completely off. but I didn't, you know, jump on to another film for a while until indignation.

And I'm kind of regretting it. Really? Because I was a tad. I was working on this film that turned out to be so fucking good. And it was so stupid of me because I've always wanted to make a film like that. And I fucked up. Like, what do we not want to name those? I would love to name it, but I want to be respectful to the people involved.

And, yeah, they made a good. great movie and it was very good. It came out this year and it was great. Okay. And so what, I mean, I mean, I, you know, as a film buff, I know, like, Air is infamous for creating like tough sets and that's part of this process and people, people get off on it and enjoyed and the product is usually great. But like, can you elaborate a little bit on like what it was that disheartened you so much? I mean, you were proud of it, I think, and you enjoyed the process in some way. Maybe enjoys the wrong word, but you're proud of it. I didn't, I can't say, yeah, I was proud of it. It was fulfilled. It was a Every film is an experiment, you know, or at least it should be unless you're just repeating

yourself. And I don't feel like I've repeated any process. And for this one, I was like, all right, let's see what happens when you give this much of yourself to one thing. And it was just exhausting. And, yeah, David just kind of tortures you. That's like his thing. He likes to torture people.

It's David Air. I'm sure you read about it all the time, whatever, you see all these articles about crazy shit he does to actors because he's a, he's a, you know, sick dude. And I just gave myself to him and to his process and, you know, I was exhausted. I was really tired. Yeah. I was just tired. I was, yeah, I just wanted to be inspired again. I wanted to, I want to respect the filmmaker by being inspired.

You know what I mean? By being passionate. I'm not trying to just be a part of their movie because I can be. I want them to have an inspired actor who's going to do something and respect their material. So it's like that's why I, you know, like after Indignation, I was working, after Fear, I was working on this film. But I just wasn't feeling like 100%. So I wanted to respect the filmmaker. So it was a choice for their movie to have, you know, get something good at.

of a hungrier person. So is part of like the kind of process or decision making going forward like as much as loving the project and the script and whatever like doing your homework and figuring out like before you set on set that first day that like you're obviously in sync with the director but also that like you know you know like Kubrick was like infamous not every like you know or Malik I mean they're not everyone's cup of tea

like they make amazing films but some people it just doesn't work for them and maybe some filmmakers just aren't for you or good for your soul if they even. if they make good movies. Yeah, I mean, I don't really care about what they do to me. I'm willing to experiment. I'm down for anything as long as I like the character and the material and the filmmaker. That being said, like, the first thing I look for is the filmmaker.

And, like, I just want to work with, you know, or work with, I want to aid, you know, and collaborate with a director I love. that being said, there never are directors that I love that are making films that there is like a role for me in it. And I'd much rather work with a first-time filmmaker that has a killer vision or short film or whatnot, a great script, a great story that they are trying to, like, I would like to support a first time or more so than a mediocre, you know, you know, filmmaker with, with, with average material. What about, what about, like, I know it was, it was, I feel like I was talking to you to that

through the processor when you got the role, like, Noah getting to work with Aronowski, who's, again, not necessarily, like, touchy, feely or easy as a filmmaker, but, like, is clearly a genius behind the camera. I love Darren, and, like, he's a good friend of mine now, and that experience was, It was cool. I mean, I wasn't very involved. We didn't really dive deep into conversation about it. The process was a little underwhelming for me as compared to other experiences I've had where I'm more involved and there's more passion and, and, uh, was it just there wasn't that much to that character.

No, I just, yeah, it was that. It was also just timing. I was working on another project and I flew in and like started the movie right away. way. We didn't have a lot of time to really fully realize, or I didn't, Darren was doing his thing. He's passionate and working on it. But I, yeah, I think we all just kind of flew in and did our thing. I was, you know, it wasn't a, I wasn't as involved in that process. I was mainly like insurance. I was backup. I was there every day sitting around. waiting around in case they needed someone to come in because there were obstacles when making

that film and um you're looking at the cover set I was the cover set and but I was also you know I'm poor in character and there was a lot going on but it was um yeah it wasn't the you know the experience I would love to have had with Darren sure although um I have so much respect for him and I really want to work with him again but on something where maybe there's a less elements, you know, there's less, you know, it's not as big, it's more about, you know, we can really just focus on the, on, on the characters and have more time to explore. Because we didn't, I never really had a lot of time to explore with Darren. You want that wrestler experience. You want that kind of like. Yeah, I want to just, I just want

to live and breathe one thing and do that. But, you know, I love Darren and I like the movie a lot. But yeah, it wasn't that, you know, it wasn't that like collaborative and wasn't, you know, like the other experiences I've had since. So what are the, are you consuming a lot of a film? What's the last couple things you liked? Yeah, I've seen a few things. There's a bunch I want to see, but it's hard because none of my friends wanted to see these films. What do you want to see? I want to see Captain Fantastic. I haven't seen yet. The Vigo is supposed to be great in that. Yeah, I want to see that a lot. I really want to see that. I want to see, what is the other one? one that uh there's a bunch of films that came out there's that zappa documentary i want to see

i don't see not yet either yeah um i keep talking about so i had i had nicholas refin in here recently yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah i haven't seen it yeah i really want to see it i'm i'm one of the supporters i really like that i know it's divisive interesting yeah i've heard you know it's polarizing but like i'm a big fan of refin and um i just worked with el fanning oh yeah yeah she's like uh obsessed with her um yeah i think she's just one of my favorite people. And I just absolutely adore her as a person, but as an actor. She's like so great. And, yeah, yeah, I just love Elle. She's great. So I really want to see that. And I saw this De Palma documentary I really liked. Yeah, it was good. It was interesting. I mean, I grew up

a diploma freak. Yeah. I mean, he's got his issues. I mean, you can definitely make some cases in terms of depictions of women maybe back in the day, et cetera. Totally, but like it's fascinating, yeah, it's fascinating insight into his experience. I feel like it could have been five hours longer. Yeah. You know, and there's more details, you know, more things I'd like to learn from him. But it kind of reminded me of, like, the documentary version or, you know, it's very similar to Cindy Laman.

LeMet's making movies. Making movies of that infamous book. Yeah, you know, it's like that's the one book you should read if you're interested in film. Yeah. Making movies by Sidney Lommet. But it's kind of like this is the documentary version of that, but it's just not as rich. It's not as, you know, detailed. Yeah.

But it's great insight into his filmmaking experiences. And the best thing about someone like De Palma or like Lament is that they're prolific and they are filmmakers that aren't like Kubrick, you know, they're not like, they didn't succeed every time. They're not perfect. Right. Um, they made mistakes. And to listen to De Palma or read, you know, Lemette's book, you as a aspiring filmmaker or whatnot, can learn from their mistakes. Yeah. And I think that's really important. But, um, yeah, he gives great insight to Palma into the making of a lot of his, you know, of his films. Yeah, it's really fun. It's funny to hear him talk about it because he's so dry and like, yeah, yeah, he loves talking about it, too, you know?

He really loves it. Yeah, they, they, uh, had a retrospective of him at this new New York theater of the Metrograph that showed all his films and I saw a blowout up there, which was amazing. So good, man. Yeah, so good. So good. I just discovered that recently. Like, I didn't, I didn't, I didn't watch that, like, growing up. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. So who passed down, if any, but did someone pass down, like, have the love of film? Because your family isn't like an industry family.

You grew up in L.A. But it's not like you were. Well, my family introduced me to films at a young age, but not a lot of movies. I think my love of film really started in, it was 2004. I saw Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind. And I think I just fed off of my. my own my enthusiasm mixed with my best friend's enthusiasm for film and he would show me films I would show him films and we just kind of shared this passion so I think a lot of it has to do

with my best friend um he taught me a lot too my best friend my buddy you know he was already making short films and I had no idea how you get the information from the camera onto a computer I didn't understand what a firewire was you know I'd like learn these things and I just started exploring and then working on sets I was able to learn more from the department heads and things like that. I also had like a neighbor growing up who's a writer and I used to bother him all the time and his name's Andrew Mearish and his father, you know, Walter Mirish, who the great Mirish company made all these wonderful movies. Oh wow. And he would give me all this all these titles and movies to watch

and talk to me and like teach me about you know film at like a young age because I was I was curious but he was always like not encouraging you know he was like don't do it kind of thing you're like you shouldn't be a child actor all these things like you're never going to succeed bad stuff you know he's just kind of like

he wasn't very encouraging about it but he taught me so much at an early stage so I'd say it was a combination of him and my best friend, Dean, and we would, yeah, just started learning about film and watching movies all the time. That's the thing, though, it's like, it's not forced, you know? It's a genuine interest, you know, a genuine interest, you know, a passion for, just wanting to watch a movie tonight. It's not like, you know, I had to force myself to be interested and want to do this. It's just

what I like to do. Yeah, I think for any like, you know, someone that's caught the bug like you were I in terms of loving film at a young age, like it's that, it's those moments like, you know, we all have them. Like, I remember indelibly like getting the double VHS when I was a kid of like Godfather

and being like, it was like, no one told me about this. Like I need to watch everything this guy has ever made and just falling down that rabbit hole. And it's, yeah, it's not schoolwork. It's a passion that like you can't. And then you watch Jack and you're like, what the fuck?

What the fuck? fuck is this true that was misguided and now the bill Cosby part yeah it's had a whole other level to it weird movie man but how did the how did he go from but you're talking about yeah like these wild apocalypse now to Jack

I always love that I kind of love like I mean like talking like De Palma like I saw like bonfire the vanities in the theater like I love kind of like those big swing and misses as much as the as the glorious winds in some way yeah yeah I mean yeah yeah they're fun I mean sometimes they're fun

not Jack Jack wasn't as much fun Guys, don't see Jack. Although, you know, it's always a joy to watch, you know, Robin Williams do his thing. Because even in a bad movie like that, he's so damn good. Undeniably good. And it's very rare that an actor can be better than the movie. You know, it's so rare.

It's usually you're only as good as the film and what the director chooses and to use and yada, yada, yada. and I think he was one of those rare, rare talents where he's great and everything he does. Only a few people like that. Totally. It feels like, I mean, as self-critical as it sounds like he can sometimes be, you have to be satisfied with the resume thus far. And that, like, you've, by and large, like, especially for a guy your age, like, you've avoided, like, teenage crap, basically. Like, there's a lot like, it's a lot. Yeah, for the most part.

For the most part. Yeah, for the most part. I've done some shitty work, though. But I think I learned more about myself through the shit. shitty work than I did from the projects. I appreciate. Do you learn much going through, you know, again, we started our conversation on the commercial aspect of going through the Percy Jackson kind of machine, whatever you want to call it? Oh, I love that experience, man. I learned a lot. Yeah. I learned a lot. And I really liked that. Like, it was fun. It was fun time. I wasn't

taking it too seriously in terms of what we were making, you know. That's just, that's just fun, but it's a challenging film to make for different reasons. It's a really physically challenging process. Working with the effects and just a map. Yeah, like all the stunts. You have to prep for stunts and do work out every day and like learn fight sequences and like wirework and sword fighting and all that stuff. Like that's hard. Like that's the job. Yeah. More than acting. Although, you know, You know, it's really just, you know, it's not many complex emotions and, you know, exploring the human condition in a film like Percy Jackson. But there's a whole hell of a lot of entertainment. I like to be entertained as well.

Like I like to, I like those movies as well. But, you know, it's, yeah, it's, you know, I definitely was craving something more. you know, after doing that. Especially when you're working on those for like a long time, you kind of crave. I always crave to switch things up. I just want to do different things and stuff. It feels like you're owed or were owed a Logan-Werman comedy at some points.

I want one so bad, but there's nothing good, man. I haven't read a good, no, I just read a good comedy that I kind of like that I would consider doing maybe. It's all about the people involved too. Yeah. I think that's a big part. And seeing yourself complimenting the material or whatnot. I'm not the funny guy, really.

Right. You know what I mean? Like, you need a nice pairing. Yeah. It's a nice pairing. I don't think anybody's going to be laughing the whole time with me being like, you know, the, the, the, you know, broad, whatever, you know, big character or whatnot. But I, um.

But there's join being the straight man. There's a. Yeah, I just, I, I can't do another fucking intense movie. I really, I mean, I can, but I want to switch it up. Yeah. Really bad. And just, uh, but you, you can't really choose. what's out there. You know, I mean, you can't choose, you know, what you're going to receive. You can't,

you know, manifest it or whatnot. Yeah. I just, you know, it's, you know, I just want more people to write and send it my way. There's a lot of, again, like talking about different mediums. I feel like the, in the comedy space, the best stuff right now is, like, short form and digital and, like, that kind of a thing. I mean, there's so much good stuff. I don't know. Comedy's great. I mean, there's a lot of great comedy out there. A lot of great comedy out there. A lot of good stuff um yeah i'd love to do find something out there that's totally different than what i've been doing uh recently yeah a lot of the work i've done has been really intense and it's like those aren't fun to work on you know right do you um that not that work needs to be fun no sure

it's a job for a job yeah yeah it's like yeah but i like these projects stuff uh how soon am i going to see you directing you see i i don't know i mean i want to do it it's just again it's about Or the finances and all that. No, it's just about material. Yeah. It's just like if I can get my hands on something that I want to make, then I'm at home. I'll work every day until, you know, getting that film into production and do it as

structured as well as I can with the knowledge I have of filmmaking so far. And I'm ready to do it right now. I'm always looking for material. I'm trying to motivate myself to write more but I'm not a writer I'm not a natural writer in the same way that I'm like a natural

like a musician or something like that where it's like it's not a chore for me to sit by a piano and want to learn more it's a chore for me to sit and write it's painful

and I hate it but I'm trying to challenge myself because it's hard to find good material and I have ideas and things I want to do, but I just don't really know how to execute them very well. But I'm always reading and trying to find scripts. I just want to really more than anything. I just want to find a writer, a young writer. They don't need to be young, but they could be older and start writing whatever the fuck it is a new writer a writer that is starting that wants to make great movies and their and their talent is is obvious on the page and I want to support them yeah

more than anything not even as like trying to take their material and direct it I just want to find good writers and make sure that they're being taken care of and that their films are being made uh with the respect that the material deserves and that that's a all that I'm doing right now and just trying to seek out those talented individuals and support them because there's not enough good material out there and just send send it my way guys I'm reading everything um it's always good to catch up with you man and likewise dude you know um it's it's it's always been refreshing to catch up with you because you know you've got your priorities seemingly very straight and like you know for someone your age like you know you're

attracted to good material you have you're not after the quick fix it's not about celebrity all that shit um you know you talk the talk and you walk so I appreciate that man I appreciate that you've always been yo it's always good senior you're you're good dude indignation guys go check it out check out indignation please please yeah thanks man all right thank you thanks bud Now here it is. Hey, everyone. This is Scott Ackerman of Comedy Bang Bang.

I want to tell you that now here this is a brand new podcast festival that's happening this fall. Get ready for a weekend of live performances and opportunities to meet your favorite podcasters. Hello, people of earth. Now here this will feature podcasting, Titan. like me, Scott Ackerman, doing Comedy Bang Bang Live in addition to how did this get made, WTF with Mark Merrin, with special guest Lauren Lapkiss, brilliant idiots, and more being announced all the time

including plenty more Earwolf and non-earwolf favorites. It's all happening in Anaheim, California, October 28th through the 30th. You'll get Halloween off. Don't worry. Buy your tickets now and get all the details at nowherethisfest.com. This has been an Earwolf production, executive produced by Scott Ackerman and Chris Bannon. For more information and content, visit Earwolf.com. Hey, Michael.

Hey, Tom. You want to tell him? Or you want me to tell him? No, no, no. I got this. People out there. Yeah. People, lean in, get close, get close. Listen, here's the deal. We have big news. We got monumental news. We got snack-tacular news. Yeah, after a brief hiatus, my good friend, Michael Ian Black, and I are coming back.

My good friend, Tom Kavanaugh and I are coming back to do what we do best. What we were put on this earth to do. To pick a snack. To eat a snack. And to rate a snack. Nentifically? Emotionally? Spiritually. Mates is back. Mike and Tom eat snacks. A podcast for anyone with a mouth. Available wherever you get your podcasts.