Happy Sad Confused - M. Night Shyamalan

Episode Date: January 23, 2017

 ***SPOILER ALERT***If you have not seen “Split,” do NOT read this or listen to the accompanying podcast. You have been warned!  ***SPOILER ALERT***  M. Night Shyamalan, so celebrated for his early films like “The Sixth Sense” and “Signs” has essentially reinvented himself in recent years, abandoning big budgets, to work on his own terms for psychological thrillers that could at times almost pass as black comedies. “The Visit” scored with critics and audiences alike and now he continues the trend with “Split”, starring James McAvoy as a man with DID (dissociative identity disorder). It’s all totally new territory for Shyamalan. Right? Not quite. If you’ve seen the film, (and if you haven’t this your last chance, get out of here!) you know the big secret at the heart of “Split”. This is the long awaited continuation of “Unbreakable”, complete with a return of Bruce Willis as David Dunn. Fans of “Unbreakable” have clamored for a sequel virtually since the film’s release in 2000. And while the filmmaker has teased a possible return to the universe at some point, no one anticipated it would happen this way. Talking at length in this exclusive conversation with Josh Horowitz specially for a spoiler-centric “Happy Sad Confused” podcast, Shyamalan reveals a lot—from the origins of “Split” in the original “Unbreakable” script to his plans for the 3rd installment of the story, a film that will bring together David Dunn (Willis), The Horde (James McAvoy) and Mr. Glass (Samuel L. Jackson), a film the director intends to make next. There’s a ton of juicy details in the conversation below. If you’re an “Unbreakable” fan, prepare yourself!  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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What's in your wallet? Terms apply. See Capital One.com slash bank for details. Capital One and A member FDIC. This week on Happy Sack and Fused, a very special spoiler edition of the show with M. Night Shyamalan. You've been warned. I'm Josh Horowitz. Welcome to, as I said, this very unusual special kind of edition of the show.

We've never done one of these. Perhaps we'll do them in the future. But I felt like it was a good occasion to do this. If you have not seen the movie Split, which is now out in theaters, I can't necessarily recommend you continue on this podcast. because there are going to be a lot of spoilers. Turn it off right now. Dude. Turn it off.

That's Sammy getting really, really angry at you. But yes. Upset yourself. You don't want to do this. Okay, so yes, there are going to be some more warnings ahead, but just to say it at the start, please, why do this to yourself? See the movie first. Okay.

You still with me? Good. You've enjoyed the movie. As you know by now, there is a huge revelation at the end. and about kind of like the scope and where this fits into other M Night Shyamalan films and I had about

I think I think like a 30, 35 minute chat with Knight that really goes hardcore into nerdy details about the film and you're gonna enjoy it because well Sammy can I can I ruin it for you? You can.

Okay, okay. Here's the twist. Sammy's going to be having it ruined for the first time. The film, as you guys know because you've seen it, is kind of a sequel to Unbreakable. It takes place in the same

universe as Embracable. So James McAvoy, we think we're watching, you know, like a psychological thriller. In the end, what we found out is that this is the launch of a new villain in this universe. Bruce Willis appears at the end. This has launched a new kind of chapter in this universe. So this is very exciting. Hugely exciting for me.

So many people worship Unbreakable, love Unbreakable. It's my favorite of Knights films. You know, I hosted like a 10th anniversary panel for Unbreakable at Comic Con a few years back. I've talked to him about a sequel for Unbreakable. years. So when I saw this movie, I, like many in the audience, literally just said out loud, holy shit, this is amazing. You did, did, did you do that little dance with your hands? I did the dance with the hands, jazz hands. But so this was super exciting to like get to really get into the nitty gritty. And I think you guys are going to enjoy kind of the backstory of how this

film came out, how it was in fact part of the original script of Unbreakable, his plans for the next film. And indeed, that is his plan to make a sequel to both Unbreakable and split as his next film that would unite Samuel L. Jackson's character, Mr. Glass, Bruce Willis is David Dunn, and James McAvoy as The Horde. So a lot of great juicy details for Unbreakable fans in this interview. So, yeah, you've been spoiled, but hopefully you spoiled it for yourself already. And without any further ado... If you didn't know already, then you deserved it, because you were warned. There you go.

So Unbreakable fans, split fans, M. Night Shyamalan fans, enjoy this exclusive conversation full of spoiler-erific details with M. Night Shyamalan. Spoilers ahead. Do we mention the spoilers? You didn't forget to say. Oh, by the way, spoiler alert. It's my great pleasure to be joined by Mr. M. Night Shyamalan. It's good to see you, man. It's good to see you, too.

I was thinking about all the kind of stupid, silly things you get me to do every year. I was like, I can't believe. I get like this little bit of like, not shame or regret or anything like that. I wouldn't say those words, but I'm like, oh, it's like all these respected filmmakers, do they, does he get them to do that? Or is it just me and like a bunch of hacks that he gets to do that? Hacks, no. You were for context, the after hour series, which is my, my sketch series with MTV. You were, I think, the second or third sketch we ever did.

And you set the bar very high there, but the roster of talent, you should be very very. privileged. Oh, good. You're among the... Elite. McAvoy's actually doing a sketch with me next one. Oh, good. Good. Good. Good. And he's done a couple over the years. Good, good, good. So, okay, so there are ample spoiler warnings I already said in the intro, but just to reiterate, this, as you can see from the date attached to this podcast, this comes out after Split is out in theaters. If you have not seen Split, what are you doing here? Because we're going to talk some

spoilers here. Hopefully you've seen it and enjoyed it as much as I have. I've seen it twice, man. Congratulations. Thank you so much. I really enjoyed it. And on a number of levels, as you could imagine, given our past history and our conversations, I enjoyed it on a few levels. So, well, first of all, are you just surprised that as we tape this before it comes out, the secrets of this film really haven't gotten out there? Unbelievable. It was really something that we discussed with as a company and then with Universal about how to

when and how to deal with this issue and even how to like preview it. How do we do this? and it's it's an incredible thing i think we went to fantastic fest in austin and absolutely the assumption was it's going to get out from there on and we'll deal with it as we deal with it you know and they they they literally said what do we do they they freaked out when they saw the movie they were incredibly gracious it was three theaters they had overflows and they kept on adding theaters and so all these three theaters saw it and they were they were saying what do you what do you want us to do how do we talk about

this. Should we talk about this ending or not? And I gave a really genuine answer. I was like, I don't know, guys. I don't know the answer to this. It's up to you. And then the moderator, Tim, he goes, I'll kill anybody that says this, says this ending. And they all kept it every single one. And they started that kind of trend of keeping it and that the honor is to keep it. And I'm so happy, frankly, that I didn't know. I didn't know going in the ending. And And I was enjoying the film and I enjoyed it, as I said, a number of levels seeing it. And then I had that literally like a holy shit moment where I said it out loud. And both times I've seen it.

I've literally heard multiple holy shits in the audience. Just like where you have to say it out loud. So this is the point in the podcast where we're like, this is where you, this is it. This is where you pause it and stop. Now we get into it. And go see the movie and then come back and play this podcast, the rest of it later. Okay. Here's your two second pause.

Yes. Enjoy the movie. I'll see you guys later. And we're back. Okay, we're back. wasn't that movie great so okay this movie is what do we call it is it it's a sequel to unbreakable is it yes yeah so the the whole idea was can i can i make a psychological thriller you think you're watching a psychological thriller but you're watching at the end moment you realize

you're watching an origin story right and you're not watching a psychological thriller you're in a comic book movie and you realize and it goes click click click click click click like you know i was doing a long-form first act again, which is what Unbreakable is. It's a long-form first act. Yeah. So talk to me, okay, let's get the history of this first of all. So, like, when did this idea emerge and was it always conceived as being in this universe? Always conceived as the universe.

It is actually 15 or 20 pages of the script were written 15 years ago, 16 years ago. It was in the original Unbreakable script. So the original draft of Unbreakable had David Dunn, Kevin Wendell Crum, and, Elijah in it all three of them were in it and I the original movement was supposed to be Elijah was kind of more like an advisor got to to to David the mentor yeah mentor and then then Kevin Juan the Crum and David would meet at the end and and it was just not working it was because the split character Kevin Wendell Crum was just too to vivacious too active two like He was too electric, and I was writing these quiet other characters that were having

kind of long dialogue scenes, and it wasn't quite working. I couldn't get it all to balance out properly. It was such a rich character, and I said, well, maybe I should just pull him out for a second and just see what it feels like with the other two. Then when I thought of the other two, then I got the idea for Elijah to be not the mentor. Got it. So in that initial script, did Elijah turn on David Dunn in the end? Or he always ended up being a mentor?

mentor and the arch nemesis was more yes was this was this yeah and so the girls were in that version the girls like he he drops down into the room in that in that version and they that you know he saves them from the room and do we oh instead of the got it so instead of his immersion at the end of unbreakable where he rescues that family yes he was rescuing these girls fascinating yes that's what that's what that's what the original outline original script was okay amazing so do we do we call at the end of the film and it's referred to a little bit throughout. Do we refer to this character, this kind of this villain at the end? Is this the horde? Is that what you would refer to? Yeah, the horde. Okay. Yeah. So, um, so, um, let's think. What do I want to know?

Okay, there are a lot of things I want to know. Tell me about how did, okay, so when did this emerge over the 15 or so years since as something that you want to expand into a full narrative? Did you always know you were going to return to it or were you playing around with it at various I always I always had it as a story in my book, my notebook of ideas, and a couple times I thought about having someone else to do this as, like take it and do it as an unrelated movie. Because I remember you did say, we were talking about like the Night Chronicles at one point, and you did mention that there was a part of Unbreakable that you were going to do. Possible, yeah.

It was possible, yeah, as like don't do it as unbreakable, but just do it as its own story, you know, as a thriller onto itself. and I just would never let it go. And it was just too much, too close to me. It was too much, I just had too much of a connection to it and held onto it kind of selfishly. And I guess the thing that was stopping me from doing it is the thing that you and I have talked about,

which is just I have a tough time with doing a sequel. I just, that's not the engine that motivates me when I sit down alone in the room to write. I needed to feel different. I needed to feel like something I've never done that audiences have never seen before i like that the visit is weird and nobody knows what that is it a comedy is i like that that that split has its own feeling its own singular feeling um and only when i went hey let me make it in this structure which is you don't know you're

watching an origin story you don't know that this is connected you spend this entire long arc i take what what i would have done in 20 pages in the in the unbreakable script and i do it in 120 pages And then I link it back up to our main hero. You're listening to Happy, Sad, Confused. We'll be right back after this. 92% of households that start the year with Peloton are still active a year later. 92% because of a bike? Not just bikes.

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slash home dash trial. Can we talk a little bit like just the logistical aspects of this first? I'm curious. Like who knew? Because one of the key questions I immediately had just from a business perspective is this is a different studio. Yeah. That was what's such a great. Unbreakable was Disney. Disney. Yeah. I mean, how great is that as a cover? That's a huge cover. Because, knowing like this sordid business world, oh, that's never going to happen, never just going to give it up. So how did you, did you approach Disney? I did.

Quit pro quo here. Yeah. I mean, everybody was very accommodating. Everybody was super gracious and accommodating and I kind of told them what I wanted to do and what I was thinking possibly for the future. And everybody was happy and up for it and super gracious. It's nice because both of these studios, I've had a long home at Disney and we had a very successful relationship there. And I have now a new home here in Universal and hopefully

have a long and successful thing there. Everybody was just really accommodating. It was, I know it sounds strange. Wait, what does Disney get out of this? I'm being the horrible person I am, that's my, that's my, like, do they get the third film in this series? Well, you never know. You never know. Why are you not looking at the eye all of a sudden? What happened? We'll get to the future. Yeah, we'll get to the future. Okay. So, but who else knew? You obviously have even working with Jason Blum recently. Obviously, he knew, I'm sure. Did McAvoy, did the entire cast know what this did Anya know that this was in this universe?

They did know, but the real trick is don't worry about any of that. Don't, that's not, yeah, let it go, make its own movie, make it just absolutely its own movie, and sell the DID, sell the situation, sell the abilities of these DID patients to control their bodies with their minds, sell that keep selling that get to this character show this character meaning the beast yep and then go now that that you you quasi believe this in a grounded world guess what world it's in right you know that kind of thing and only if you do it that way and in fact when we previewed it for audiences i didn't have the tag on oh okay the first when i before anything yeah just when you're testing it when i was testing it yeah to see i was going i didn't have the tag on and so that was really a

wonderful way you just want to make sure it works just make sure the movie work from beginning to end, these two characters, did you love the journey that they went on? It's interesting, and in talking about, like, stylistically and thematically, its differences in similarities to Unbreakable, because now having seen it a second time, stylistically, I would say it's definitely a different approach. You have, like, virtually, I think the entire crew is different. You don't have any of, like, DP or editor or any of that kind of stuff. Was there any kind of stylistically, did you feel like they're worth illusions or anything

you wanted to put in there that recalled Unbreakable? Well, you know, the fun, again, this goes to that conversation about making a new movie, you know, make, I don't, I know, the fun is coming up with your own cinematic themes, your own cinematic color schemes and all of those things. But we were a little bit restricted, you know, because it can't be so off from Unbreakable. I just remembered another thing, which is kind of interesting. There was a serious, serious conversation with Universal about not putting the ending on at all until, you know, midnight on Thursday when the movie open so that everyone that would have seen it prior wouldn't have seen it with us no everyone and then it opens on thursday and you put the ending on were you in favor of that what were you think we really considered that we really really seriously considered that could have been fun could have been fun and then on friday night thursday night everybody goes crazy um and in the end i just felt like that's not the movie that i made i i made an origin story so all of it It was meant to go towards that final summation.

What did we see? It's even too open-ended, even without not knowing that he's going to meet him. Like, it was always supposed to be he's going to meet him. That's the end of the story. So you're going to meet, we're going to see this, what's going to happen. Without that final, the story isn't actually finished. That was the reason I didn't do it. And I'm so happy.

It's not a bonus scene. It's part of the narrative. By the way, and the main reason we had that conversation is we didn't want the ending to get out. Right. and unbelievable that everyone was so incredibly gracious, you know? So I did, I totally get you're talking about like trying to create your own kind of cinematic language while keeping it smaller enough so it does fit into the universe. This might have me just overanalyzing when I saw it the second time and I was looking

for things. Like there was a shot towards the end of him carrying the doctor that really reminded me of David Dunn carrying his wife. Yes. Is that, was that conscious? Is that just your style? It was somewhere in between, I would say. We tried hard not to like the cinematographer and I to kind of go, hey, this is Unbreakable.

Let's go back. In fact, the cinematographer is Mike Gialakis who did It Follows. Yeah, yeah. And so I saw it follows and I flipped out over it. So I had drinks with him when I was in L.A. And I was like, you know, maybe this guy could shoot this movie. And I was like, hey, man, how are you? And he's like, oh, we're, you know, I'm so excited to meet you, David, David, director.

He's like, David and I were such big fans of Unbreakable. It was really influential. And it follows. I'm like, hmm, he might really like this movie. So it was, you know, it's, so in that way, it's very organic. Like, you have a cinematographer that was influenced by Unbreakable, and then he comes back and he makes this movie. We, you know, the influences, you know, like, at that time I was very influenced by independent cinema.

Like, you know, I hired, and the cinematographer who did, you know, Wings of the Dove and things like, you know, like very independent cinema. That's who I was making. Now he, he, cinematographer for all the Harry Potter movies and all, but. But at that time, he was like, you know, he's a French cinematographer. It was like, it was an unusual choice of course to do a movie about comic books and those kind of things. And in that same way. So I went back to those instincts, like, let me hire only independent people to make this movie.

So in that way, that's the connection to Unbreakable. So, you know, hiring the cinematographer of it follows, hiring the art, the art director, production designer for a true detective for season, hiring the, the composer of the jinks. These were all independent choices to bring to a kind of like, you know, commercial venture and kind of give it that, that gritty independent feeling. Are there, even frankly in seeing it a second time when I was aware, and I saw the thematic links, I didn't see necessarily like Easter Egg kind of thing. Did I miss things?

Are there any things to look for that in terms of like specific narrative names allusions? Yeah, let me think. It's probably some in there. I mean, we even had my character. Well, okay, that's one of my question. So are you playing the same character? Has he reformed? Well, yeah, my character, actually, we had the same glasses.

We had the same glasses. They had me do one, I had one take with me doing the same. We're like, this dude hasn't changed his glasses in 15 years. This is ridiculous. This is not doing drugs anymore. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, I actually want, you know, we'll get to the future. But, you know, if there's, I think it's either or right now.

I think I have the opportunity to either or, which is, like I could do the Eddie Murphy thing. He just plays a character in... This is your clumps. In each of the movies, he just plays a character. So you haven't decided. He's either his own twin. He's just playing every role.

No, it either could be his reformed version of himself, ironically now in security at an apartment. What can happen in 15 years. Yeah, that could happen. He's now probably has a kid. He likes Hooters, so he still has that side of him. Right. He also works at the village.

outpost over there. Same guy in all your movies. This is a big mind-blowing revelation. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, you know, but it did. We had this conversation. Is my character, that character, exactly. Okay, so wait, so you were thinking there might be a couple.

Yeah, I was trying to think what, I have to think a little bit about that. Okay, we have some time. Yeah, I will. I would love to know. But in terms of thematics, there are things that, as you say, it's another origin story. It's another story. I mean, in some ways, Casey's character reminded me of David Dunn in some ways. And this is kind of like a, it really closed off character who has to kind of find an inner

strength by the... Oh, wait. I have an answer to your previous question. Please, go for it. We'll get to that. There was, in this script, there was more Easter eggs, and I had to pull them out. Yeah. There were things alluding to what's happening in the city.

And with the kind of the mania of what's happening in the city, and they kept referencing kind of, um, there was a version of the script and I was shooting it where they were actively battling like, like Mr. Glass and David Dunn, they were actively continuing to battle and that was just pulling, it was so distracting from the movie. Like there was literally like the, like the only CGI shot in the movie was like helicopters in the background with the burning building where they're talking in the background and they reference it and they're like, see, you know, like that kind of thing and you keep wondering what's going on what's going on and then you get to the end and so what you shot that you had i did yeah so we shot that and the that it was going on in

real time confused people you know at least in my office that wait a minute when is this is this 15 years later right or is this the same time period right right so it ended up that was important to know where where we were and so i pulled all those kind of references to it well the reality in like, you know, Batman and Joker are fighting for eternity. Eternity, yeah. That's what these guys are doing too, presumably. That was the theory, but it didn't serve the narrative very well. And even in an early draft of the script, I had, you know, huge scenes.

Like I had a moment. One of the characters went to the memorial of where people had died of something that, in retrospect, it's something that Mr. Glass did. And they're referencing this terrorist, like a terrorist, terrorist, terrorist, terrorist, and who is the terrorist? And you realize it's Mr. Glass at the air. Yeah, I mean, like, do you want or hope that any audience kind of figures it out? I mean, do you expect anyone will?

Just in sitting and watching it, I think so, right? It's impossible, yeah. Although, again, and watching the second time. Now it's since it's on the, on the, you know, if everyone's like, there's a twist, it's related to another movie, it's a twist, it's related to another movie, it's a twist. But, I mean, in terms of like, especially your doctor character, you know, Betty Buckley talking about, like, her, the language she uses definitely, like, it connects the dots in a way of talking about people that can, um, finding these powers and extra abilities and

like, I feel like an idiot of not connecting it in some way to, yeah, you've explored this before. Yeah, there, there are that I did get that, you know, when we didn't have the ending on, we did get that. This has like a unbreakable feeling, you know, they're talking about the same kind of things, man. I really like this, ideas that you're talking about. And I'm like, oh, good. Did any, did any comic book characters inspire the horde, this character in any way?

Again, I wrote it 15, 16 years ago, but, you know, it comes from so many comic book characters that have two sides to them, you know, multiple sides to them, you know, two face and things like that. There's so many characters that are good and bad, you know, and this is kind of the grounded version. What, in the theory of like the Unbreakable world, what if comic book was an exaggeration of something real, what's the real version of it? Oh, it's multiple personalities or it's DID is that. And what if one of the personalities believed they were super. supernatural what was was the final scene always as we see it in the film were there different iterations of which one yeah of the diner scene oh yeah there was i that wasn't the first version of it the first version of it was you come around the diner and you look at the

newspapers and all the newspapers have all the foot the like photos and the stories of what's going on in that they've been continuing to fight right you know version but that that was it was it was like once removed you know seeing a photo of of like a poncho is one once removed from and a guy in a wheelchair is once removed from you're already having like a paradigm shift and you if you don't cleanly land that landing you can't enjoy it in that moment it can't be like wait a minute yep what was that was that it's can't be like that so it all happens in one fell so yeah and i didn't even have the cute yeah and and the music was critical well let's talk about that so it's it's it's the same score right it's same score from unbreakable

yes james's a score so james was kind enough yes he was very kind enough yes he's Exactly. Yeah. And that even starts in the Maca voice. Yeah. And so that's, and I've had screenings where that starts, the music starts and people start grabbing each other a little bit. They go, wait, you see their reactions. What? What? Yeah. Wait a minute. It's really, really, really cool. It's really, really cool. The real savvy ones are like, what's happening. And they're getting, and then they're hoping and they're like, you're being an idiot. This has nothing to do with that. This is not that. This is not that. Or they think, this is temporary music. That's what they used. This is just temporary music. Get your. There's more happy, sad, confused, coming up after this break. When did you approach Bruce? And what was his reaction? Oh, I breached him early. He was totally down. I mean, Bruce and Sam have always wanted to do another movie.

So they're just like, every time I see him, when are we making another movie? What was it like shooting that scene with Bruce? Obviously, he doesn't have much to do. but was it fun for him to just be directed by you again, be that guy for a second? Yeah, it was so fun that day. We tried it many different ways that, you know, reveals no line, some line, you know, someone else saying the line, him like leaving a look, all different variations of it.

It was really fun. I mean, the crew didn't know what we were shooting. Oh, really? Yeah. Was this part of principal photography or did you shoot this as a separate? No, separate. It came back and separate. But they didn't know what we were shooting.

And then Bruce shut up and they're like, huh? And then the waitress says what she says. And then the crew member is like, I know what you're doing. I know what you're doing. When this script went out to actors, like in agents, and like Anya's agents or whatever and James, like, did they, again, did they know from the start? You know where I'm trying to remember it was very few people got the script,

very few people. It was literally like, Ania was the only one that got the script for that role. Haley was the only one that got it for her role, like that each of the people only got it for their role. and Betty, of course, who I trust, and James, who I trust. And James' agents, we made a whole thing about how their agents read it. And you know, James, they just wanted to read. They had to come somewhere, you know, and read it and that kind of thing.

But the actors, you know, I made it. Please don't give it anyone. I know your agent's going to say, slip it to me. Don't do it because I'm going to hold you responsible when the assistant puts it out on the internet. Okay? That kind of thing. So I was like, don't do it. Even if you think you're doing a good thing, you're not doing a good thing.

And when did, I assume, Sam knows, given potentially the future, when, again, he's known for years, this kind of plan? No, Sam only knew recently. And what was his reaction that it was finally actually happening? I said, you know, I might be doing this movie and I might combine these two movies. I don't know if you want Aaron okay or want to be interested in playing Mr. Glass. He's like, I'm dying to play Mr. Glass. He's like, I've been telling you every time I see you. Was there ever a thought of using him as a cameo too?

Was there ever a scripted version of him in the mental asylum or somewhere? You know, I did. You know, I'll tell you something. It was really interesting. There was a credit sequence, the credit sequence, which I love, by the way, the one that's there, the 24 crawls, you know, the one crawl and then 24 crawls behind it, mimicking it so cool and effective. But there was another version of the credit sequence, which was a comic book, which

was like graphic images of the beast and then David Dunn and then Elijah and then them all mixing together and when I saw it they done I was like this is a fucking home run and then when I put it on the movie it didn't work and I feel like there's one thing to do is it almost ruining what's maybe to come like your way no I think it was undermining is one thing to say you saw an origin story but to go into other characters you want it to be self-contained safe content yes just like yeah trade on something else no over the end david done is reacting to the news of the hoard end of end of the story right if you keep going it started to undermine the movie the two-hour movie that you just saw so strange that i was so

devastated because i was like god this is the greatest credit to it's all these like all three of them like like in graphic images like all doing all these things and it would have been so cool for the audience, but it was too soon. It didn't want that. So how do we read, you alluded to this earlier, what is David's reaction to hearing that news? What's his take on that? And you had to write his thought bubble. My thought bubble would be, again, don't hold me to this. But Elijah never got out of the institution. And he was just a guy who believed this, but David doesn't quite 100% believe it that way he just thinks that he's particularly meant to do this and it's kind of faded a little bit like this idea of comic books that Elijah's saying the comic book world

is based on reality that it's real that there's no other evidence for this is some crazy guy who has his bone disorder who's in an insane and so now this has and then this comes up is like oh my god he's he's right so that does refute like one of your different kind of things you were talking about which is like you had them in the background fighting for like yeah it's flipped it flipped yes so now you in this in this current iteration and you have the right to change your mind well that's what you know what it ended up forcing me to do is start to think about think through it think through the next movie right it started making that when I referenced it you almost don't want to waste like their relationship building over years yes exactly but now I have a full

outline by the way I don't know if we're into the future let's do it let's do it okay so so as of the end of this movie they have not in fighting for 15 years. Elijah had a Mr. Glass has been institutionalized for 15 years. He hasn't broken out or done anything. There hasn't been other heroes or villains. It's seemingly. And this is the next, you know, met a human or whatever you want to call it.

And this proves to David, oh, this is for real. Yes, roughly. Roughly. Okay. So how much of an outline do you have for this next? I have a pretty detailed outlines, nine pages, creeping to 10 now of like beats, scenes, beats. And it's very, it's very long, which is worrying me, but I don't see how we can probably, it's by its nature, it needs to be kind of epic, you know. The storyline that I've thought through feels very, you know, intricate.

So, I mean, unlike the first two in this universe, those are origin stories. Presumably this is not an origin story. And you talk about epic in nature. I know you enough to know in talking about sequels that you don't want to do kind of like the conventional take on a sequel or superhero film. All I can say is this. If Unbreakable was the high concept, take the comic book thing away,

you know, that that's the answer. Right. That the movie is about a guy who's the only person that survives a train wreck. Everyone dies and he doesn't have a scratch on him. How's that possible? Right. That's a high concept, really cool story.

And then this one is three girls get abducted, by a person that has this disorder that he believes he's many people and they have and they all the different personalities are saying there's a there's another personality coming to get them it's called the beast that's that in and of itself is a really cool thing this third movie needs to have its own idea you know the high concept of that final movie can't be it's this final it's not the just three them meeting and hitting each other there has to be something about that that makes it its own movie like this how these two are their own movies if that's when i'll be happiest when it's this is its own movie in a way i could say just if you could just

be watched by itself right just as these first two could yeah so and and needless to say it seems like i don't know how much i've achieved that because it's so damn easy to do it the other way right you you can find the balance i'm sure balance is i believe in you balance is the key i believe Even your magic knight. Yeah. Okay. So, and it would involve, presumably, at least these three key characters. Yes.

That seems safe to say. Is it one person's, like, story and per se? Is it one person's journey? Can you say, like, who's your protagonist? Is it David? Now you're just getting, you've gone too far, man. Look, after, after a line, you didn't know, you didn't know jack shit till you watch this movie.

And now you already know, now you already know so much more. It's kind of mind blowing. After years of talking to you about this and begging you for any information to have this just like torrent. Torrance, it's like overwhelming. I feel like we moved to a next stage in our relationship, like we moved in together or something, and now I'm regretting it a little bit, like, maybe we rushed this.

Who hosted your 10th anniversary Unbreakable Panel Night? Who did the escalation trailer? Oh, God, this is where you list in the relationship, the inequities and all the things that. What have you done for me? Okay, a few more geeky questions as if these haven't been. So what is David been doing the last 15 years? I can't tell you that.

He's clearly a security guard still. I can't tell you that. Or he's just wearing a name patch to remind himself who he is. It's in the outline. It's there. It's in the nine pages. Would we be surprised what he's been up to? I'm not going to say anything.

Okay. You know. Is there any other connection? Just because I moved in here. It doesn't mean you own me. I'm still my own person. Was he a patient of Dr. Fletcher? Did he need any psychiatric assistance over the years?

I can't say anything. I can't say anything. Okay. Um, have, let me ask more questions about the next movie has, oh, here's, here's something I was curious about. Maybe this is just a coincidence. In both Unbreakable and split your main characters, James and Bruce, they both kind of realize or embrace their powers at the train station. Is that just like, I mean, it's a cool setting. Is there a reason? That would, that's, I, that would definitely be an Easter egg of, you know, that it's all kind of coming from the train. I just find a train. I just find a, I mean, it's a cool setting. I just find a reason. That would, that's, I mean, that's, I just find. That would, that's, I just find. That would. That would. That would. That's, I was. That would. That would. I train station is so comic booky. I don't know why. I don't know why. I don't know where that comes from.

I connect train stations and comic books. I don't know. Is this a relief? A, is this a relief just talking about it at length like this with me? But B, also, like you've been asked about this, I know, in virtually every interview for 15 years. Yeah. Literally. So was that part of the reason to not do it or to do it over the years?

I'm sure you went up and down in terms of your feelings about it given people's expectations. Yeah, I mean, you know, it just was, it's the right moment, you know, and like, you know, you just wait to the right moment. How I know it was the right moment is because of James McAvoy. Like, you know. He's amazing in it, by the way. Thank you so many. I mean, I can't take credit. He's amazing.

He really is. He's just, you know, astounding. When the right actor is ready and at the right point in his career and the right role finds you, you know, he felt that, you know, you can see when it goes like pocket. You know, when the actor and the thing that's written is just pocket perfect for them, like Haley and six cents. James and this or or or Bryce in the visit of the village you know it's like pocket pocket acting like oh my god they just completely embody it yeah is a you have an outline you're still working on it is this the next thing you want to do or do you have a I think so I think it's the next thing I do have another idea that's nothing to do with this okay that I'm

say now and then we talk in two years you've been lying to me something really I'm excited about as well okay um which I would love to tell you about okay um um And, and I would think also just James must be excited about potentially, I mean, just doing this character again. Yeah. And also getting to play with Bruce and Sam must be an enticing. I think he's pretty excited. Right.

Yeah. Okay, I'll talk to him about it when I see him. That's all I have for you for now. Again, my brain has been melted a few times already in seeing this film a couple times. And just the fact that it exists is amazing. Oh, thanks, man. I'm so happy for you because, as you say, it's, you know, it's a tough challenge because of the expectations and whatever but it stands on its own it's a it's a it's a it's a great thriller and

it's just icing on the cake to enjoy it as part of this universe and i'm so excited that you chose to to come back to it and and hopeful that we see it uh see another iteration of it oh thanks man so nice to talk to you about it actually um thanks buddy thank with it And so ends another edition of Happy, Sad, Confused. Remember to review, rate, and subscribe to this show on iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm a big podcast person. I'm Daisy Ridley, and I definitely wasn't pressure to do this by Josh.

This episode of Happy Sad Confused was produced by Michael Catano, James T. Green, Mukda Mohan, and Kashamai. for the MTV Podcast Network with additional engineering by Little Everywhere. You can subscribe to this and all of our other shows on iTunes, Stitcher, Google Play, Spotify, or wherever else you find your favorite podcasts. Venture X from Capital One is the travel card for people always asking. Where next? You earn 10x miles on hotels and rental cars and 5x miles on flights booked through Capital One travel

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