Happy Sad Confused - Mahershala Ali

Episode Date: October 5, 2016

Mahershala Ali is in the middle of the transition every actor dreams of--from that guy to THE guy. He reveals all in this week's episode of "Happy Sad Confused" as he traces his trajectory, from "House of Cards" to his film debut in "The Curious Case of Benjamin Button" to the enviable place he is now -- dominating every screen imaginable. On TV, he's Cottonmouth, the scene-stealing bad guy in the binge-worthy show of the moment, "Luke Cage". And on the big screen, come October 21st, he'll be looming large in the poignant coming of age drama, "Moonlight". Ali sits down with Josh to talk about it all, from working with David Fincher to Derek Cianfrance, to suddenly getting him moment in the sun at 42.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Welcome to another fresh steaming podcast for your ears. I'm Josh Horowitz and with me as always is Sammy. Hey, Sammy. Hi. Should we say your last name? Do you want your last name known to the world? Yeah. Sammy Mahoshavah.

Sammy Heller for the record. Sammy Obama. What? I know why. Welcome back to the podcast, guys. Thanks for being with us. always. This is where I talk to filmmakers and actors and comedians and Sammy as well. And you. This week on the show is a really great actor, a guy that maybe you don't know by name, but he's somebody that you should know by name and will know by name if you don't already. His name is Maharshala Ali. And he is, to use the cliche, having a moment. He is. He absolutely is. In both film and TV, early in the year, he. He was in Free State of Jones that Matthew McConaughey film, but more importantly, even right now, he is on Netflix as Cotton Mouth, the Bad Guy in Luke Cage, a show that I'm really taking right now about, I'm not quite halfway through, but I'm really enjoying it.

And he's amazing in that. And he's also truly amazing in something that probably 99% of you haven't seen yet, but you should see. It's opening October 21st. It's a film called Moonlight. We talk about it at length in this one. I've mentioned it earlier on an earlier podcast because I saw it at Toronto. humble brag I wasn't

I'm just giving context Got it got it got it Okay so Moonlight Just for some context And we talk about it a little In the outside of the interview I want to give people Sort of an idea of what this film is

It's a smaller film With not a ton of big names in it I'm really selling it well right But it's excellent It's basically about a young African American kid Growing up in Miami Who is gay And who's kind of just figuring out

His place in the world And figuring out He's persecuted a bit and he's not finding the community that he wants and needs. And he's also just searching for love. And it's a really beautifully told story filled with exceptional performances. And I said this to Mahershal in the conversation. It's one of those things where I walked out of the film and I was like, Mahershal Ali, who I don't think I even knew by name at the time, but that actor who I've seen in a thousand things was so good in that movie. I hope he gets awards recognition. And I have a

feeling he will be. I think he's going to be in the Oscar race. Wow. So I'm excited that we had him on at this moment before all the crazy red carpets to come. You didn't even mention the one thing I know I'm mainly from. House of C. H.O.C. Yes. Yes. He's Remy and House of cards. Of course. Yeah, yeah. He's had a lot of interesting roles in his career. We talk, his

film debut was in the curious case of Benjamin Button. Oh. He was in The Place Beyond the Pines, the great Derek C. in France movie. He was in the last two Mockingjay movies. So he's been around. He's one of those guys that you will definitely recognize eyes. If you look him up, you'll be like, oh, yeah, that guy. Love that guy. Love that guy. And this is a very thoughtful, interesting guy who, you know, it's always exciting to see somebody kind of come into their own and get the opportunities that they

deserve. So I'm really happy that he was able to come by the podcast studio. And I think you guys are going to dig this conversation. Beyond that, what else to catch you guys up on? There's exciting things happening this week. What's happening this week? Nothing that you're going to let me talk about. but things that people should... Oh, you mean other podcasts? What are you talking? Something that you're filming this week?

What am I shooting? Oh, I'm shooting a sketch, yeah. There's a good after hours. Okay, if all goes according to plan. Do you know your name? Do you know where you are right now? Give me my med, Sammy. I just got really nervous.

Me too. Well, you just, here's what you teed up something, as you said, that we can't talk about. So now what? I just want to tell everybody to stay... You just drove us into a corner. To... I want to... I want, I'm going to say stay tuned, and I want you to reaffirm that there's exciting news.

We are taping a very fun sketch this week with one returning after hours performer, someone that's been a veteran and one A-list or newcomer. Someone that like I... How did we get this person? How am I going to sit through it? Oh, you're not allowed to sit in the studio for this. So, yes, that is happening this week. I'm also, there's a lot going on here in New York.

There's the New York Film Festival is going on right now. New York Comic-Con is this weekend. So a lot of cool people around, some people that I'm taping for the podcast that you're going to hear in the coming weeks. So I'm excited. I'm busy. I'm exhausted, but I'm excited. Yeah, feel the energy, guys. It's all happening.

And Sammy's just excited because she saw Hamilton for a second time. No, what? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, think about that. Think about the life she's leading. Okay. Jerk face. Okay.

Anyway, on to happier times, happier things. Remember to rate, review, and subscribe to Happy Say I Confused on iTunes. Give us that love that we'll be. We crave that we think we deserve. Tell your friends all about it. And enjoy this conversation with Mahershala Ali. I have to go. I'm seeing Hamilton tonight.

She's just because every time. Wait, are you actually working on Hamilton? Are you in Hamilton? I am Hamilton. Breaking news. He is the words I've never said before on the podcast. Here's Mahershershalla. Ladies and gentlemen, it's Mahershula Ali.

Hi. Thanks for coming in, man. Thanks for having me. I really appreciate it. I said this to others and to friends. I was privileged enough to be at the Toronto Film Festival, and I saw Moonlight. And I walked out of that, and I had this sense of gratitude for what I'd just seen and happiness of what I just seen. And also, I felt like, it's weird.

I don't know you. This is the first time we're chatting. But I was like, I had happiness for you. I was like, this guy who I've seen in other roles, he just found the right role. This is something that deserves recognition, and I think we're going to be talking about for a while. So I know kind of the run is just beginning here. But congratulations, Matt. Thank you so much.

Not to mention Luke Cage. We're going to cover it all today, which, as you know, I'm digging more episodes in, and I'm excited to finish it up. But first, let's talk about something like Moonlight, which the audience maybe at hand doesn't really know much about yet. They're about to. Can you give a sense sort of like your interaction with the material and give it a sense to the audience like what this is about and what makes

it special for you and you think for the audience at large? I think when people walk away from this film it's really hard not to relate to Sharon who plays little who we see in three separate chapters

throughout the course of this film and reason I say it's hard not to relate to him is I think that there's a period of time when, and for everyone it's not during childhood, but where you feel like you're one of the others when you're outside of the tribe, where you don't quite fit in, where you're having to work a little bit too hard, where you become something other than who you truly are in order to be accepted, or maybe you're borderline being persecuted in some capacity. So I think what drew me to the piece is, it's just that real sense of kind of being one who wasn't,

I never totally felt like I was in the club. And it wasn't until I, in part why I really appreciated college, and I started finding the arts and connecting to my own identity through writing and starting to act, it gave me so much confidence that at a certain point, I didn't really care. Right. But during that period where I cared and I was defined by, really defined by what other people thought of me, and I think it's always a battle. I don't think you ever really fully figure that out. Right.

But it had too much importance in a certain way. And that's not to make any comment on Chiron or little or people who are at a place in their life where they're the other, and just to say, kind of buck up, you'll be okay, own your own space. But I definitely related to him in that I felt, in my own way, a little bit like him or a lot like him in some ways, but without take out the persecution. I didn't, I didn't experience that to any degree. But, yeah, I mean, as you say, it is, I think that's what makes the material so powerful for, like, you know, again, this is takes place in Miami.

me, this is a young African-American kid who happens to be gay, and that's sort of the reason why he feels a little bit out of place, and in the community he's in, that's not necessarily the accepted, quote-unquote, norm or whatever. And I think that's the triumph of the film, as you say, that it's going to be very relatable for all of us. Because as you say, we're all kind of, like, on that journey to, like, all we want is to feel safe and loved and comfort in our lives. Right. And supporting. Yeah. And to find a community. And, and I think, think this is a film that, you know, it's going to be written about a lot. It's already been written about a bit because it does shine a light on, I mean, you know, I can't

speak with any expertise of this, but in the African American community, like they're not stories really about gay men. I can't recall seeing one in film. And I mean, I guess I'm just curious, growing up for yourself, did you, was there a sense, like, within your community and openness to homosexuality? Was it something talked about? Look, I had family and friends that that is their experience in terms of, as far as identifying as homosexual, you know. And so I think in my own family, it was something that was both talked about and not talked about. You just kind of, I actually really appreciate my family in that.

folks in my family who were dealing with that or who have dealt with that with their with their sexual identity that people just kind of step back and have given them the space to do that you know um so I can really only speak for my family now outside of my family within the black community um I think that there's other people who've had a very difficult experience but I've seen it in but it's in It's in, that's just America, though, too. Maybe it's, maybe it's, it's more egregious, maybe in the black community. I really can't say. Sure. But I just feel like that people are persecuted for, and it's not to take anything away from the homosexual experience. But I think if people can find a way to work that energy out on you, people tend to get persecuted. Sure.

And, and, and, but people who are gay have a very unique experience in, in their persecution, for sure. And I've seen it in the black community and outside of the black community. How many times in your career, and you know, you've been working for a bit, have you, have you, have you gotten a script like this where you, where you've, where you've seen that much potential on the page and realized that this is, this is an opportunity. This is something that if all goes according to plan, could be really special. I remember I loved. reading the place beyond the pines. I loved reading the curious case of Benjamin Button. And there's a couple of projects that I didn't get to be a part of that I just thought were fantastic. Baby Driver, I read back the year ago.

I thought that was a great script. We just had a Lily James on the podcast. Yeah, I don't know how the film would turn out, but that was a terrific script. Well, Edgar, it's going to be unique, I'm sure. Yeah, so there's other projects that I've read that I just were, you know, really kind of blown away by and they felt really unique. But this script is the first script that shook me to my core when I, after finishing it, and where I had a real emotional reaction, a visceral reaction in reading these scenes and really connecting to his journey so clearly that you couldn't help. It's almost as if you're not human. And if you are not affected by what this young man goes through.

Totally. And it just is a film from script to screening that reminded me of the power of storytelling and the power of film. When was the, were you at Telly Ride? Did you see it there for the first time? I saw screening. I saw it finished at Tell You Ride for the first time. But Barry had shared with us the film. He started doing screenings a few months before Tell You Right.

And I saw it with some temp music in it. But basically, I don't feel like he really edited anything. He was maybe doing some nip-tuck stuff, but essentially it was there. So do you trust your own judgment before, like, a film festival? Or was it like you needed kind of the, you know, them to tell you, oh, yeah, my instinct about this was right. Because you can be kind of like, you can have tunnel vision. It's a little bit weird in a small screening room with friends and family or whatever versus starting to expose this to the world outside. Like, when did you kind of accept that, like, oh, yeah, I think Barry did it.

We all did it. We should be really proud of this one. When I saw the, first of all, I was hearing. With this script, it's always had this story with Moonlight. It always had, if it wasn't a buzz, it had a hum. And I remember being at my agent's office for a meeting. And then it was already, there was that little, hmm, there was the, hey, you got to read Moonlight.

Have you heard about Moonlight? And it was just kind of popping around the office that day. And I got home and I read it. It was blown away by it. I'm a fan of Barry Jenkins. And funny enough, because I had mentioned Adela Romanski a year before when she was producing this film called Kix. And I said, man, you know, have you seen this film called Medicine for Melancholy?

And we were working on the Kicks together. And we had just really met, honestly. She was like, my best friend directed that movie. And then a year later, I got the offer and she produced this as well, along with a bunch of other great folks, plan B and A-24. But so I had a relationship with Adela and really wanted to work with Barry. So there was a buzz about it already. And then when I saw the, before I even got to see the first screening, there was already. people responding and saying that, hey, man, I saw Moonlight, I can't wait for you to see this movie.

So when I saw it, it lived up to that for me, for how those people very humbly shared how they were affected by it. And so I was just hoping going into the festival season that people would respond to the way in which we all responded. But at the same time, these really positive reviews, very kind reviews, They just don't leave out any detail about the movie. So there's some degree of losing the element of surprise. I think it's a great movie to walk into not knowing anything about. And you can really get taken on a journey. But I've just read some reviews where you get every single detail of the film.

And so we're not going to say how long certain characters are around or whatever, but we're just going to say, take the journey. I could say if there were a way to speak highly of the film. in that way and not share as much I would have loved. But there's also something that, hey, that's what they felt moved to right. And I just appreciate that. It's been positive. We haven't given away too much. No, no.

It's been positive. And I'm just so grateful to be. But when that spaceship comes down at the end, I didn't see, did you see that coming? I didn't see that coming. I didn't see that coming. I didn't know Sharon was going to get abducted. The Jeep Wrangler 4xE. It's electrified.

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It's a good time it would seem to be, Mahershala Lee. We were, you know, joking when you walk, and you're a busy guy, but it's all for a great cause. I mean, you know, you're about my age. You know, we've both been around the blog a little bit. And, you know, I would think in the course of an actor's career, you have kind of moments where it's going to turn.

This is the moment. Like, how many of those have you had? And does this, I mean, this must feel different because, you know, what you're hearing about Moonlight and Luke Cage and Precedo Jones, et cetera, it's, it's all happening. Yeah, I guess I would have, I would say, I think I've had expectations of things to be a little bit different, probably maybe, maybe once, maybe twice. When I think I, when I booked the Curious Case of Benjamin Button. Was that your first film? That was my first feature. Yeah.

That's crazy. Booking that, I kind of felt like, oh, maybe things will really open up, you know. But we went right into this strike and this pending, the strike, or a pending strike, then a strike. And so it just really shifted the industry. And it's probably why we have good television today, because you had a lot of things. films that weren't being made for almost a year because they weren't green lighting stuff, if I remember correctly, they weren't really greenlighting films, but television, they'll shoot until they call the strike, right?

And so you had actors dropping down from the film world because they needed jobs, and therefore sort of bumping up the quality of some, what would be somewhat average television. And then it suddenly was okay to do TV within the... a couple of years. And so, and then I think the second time was probably after I had booked House of Cards or like the Mockingjay kind of period. Sure. But it didn't quite, my journey has been one of, I've just built the house really slowly, slower than what I think I would have thought, but at the pace that is probably good for me. Does that make it kind of more satisfying in a way now is it is it sweet right now or is it like or do you look back with any

kind of regret or this would have been nice five or ten years ago or is it sort of like you know what I'll everything to its own time and I'll take it now and I think I think it's all happening in a way in which that I could probably handle you know there's so many different types of personalities I think growing up I was I think I don't exactly know the word, but I'm a little bit of a combination of an introvert and an extrovert. I think I have my moments in both of those places. And so just learning how to be out in the world,

learning how to, because I always thought of the work. And this is the education of going from being someone who's studying acting to someone who is professionally living as an actor. and especially if you go through the kind of the conservatory route I really just thought acting was between action and cut or when you're on stage or the scene work

and that was always just my focus that's what I was about I'm from the Bay Area we like Marshawn Lynch said about that action boss like he's not shiny it's just about doing the work right that's it and everything stems from the work and I think

in looking at how the larger system works, that at a certain point, that doesn't totally behoove you because if you have desires as an artist that you really want to be fulfilled, that you need to work out, like really working from a place of needing to be creatively fulfilled as an artist, you have to participate in a different way

than maybe what your personality might naturally want to participate. But then eventually once you get, and that's just it has to do with comfort levels. And once you get comfortable, I feel like that's like an eloquent way of saying you don't want to be here talking to me. Not at all, not at all. There was a period of time where I just would have been too nervous to be here to talk to you. And so over the last few years, I've worked on projects that warranted a certain degree of publicity and coverage and where my presence was welcomed in a way that I wasn't accustomed to and people who actually wanted to talk to me and ask you. questions that were, where they obviously invested a little bit of time.

And so it changed my relationship with speaking about the projects as well. So, yeah, so that's a roundabout way of saying that 10 years ago, I don't know if I was ready for this side of it. Totally. It's another set of skills. And it's, yeah, and I can only imagine also, like, and then you toss in and you're, you know, I think House of Cards probably contributed to this. And I'm sure Luke Cage is now contributing to this. fame to whatever degree, you know, you have walking around the streets of New York right now where we're taping this.

I can only imagine even in the last week since Luke Cage is out there. It's a different thing. It is, right? It's a little bit different. Yeah. What's been the reaction on the Luke Cage front in terms of being in New York or seeing people? It's kind of on all, it's coming, it comes at you in all the ways in which people can have access to you.

So through social media, through, and it depends on how close you are to people as well. So whether it's email, texting, walking down the street. And it's not a negative thing. It's just a real bump up in contact beyond what I'm accustomed to. All the friends of friends, the high school, quinces. I've had a few interesting. Interesting. Literally, I got one where someone said, hey, man, you're not going to remember me, but we went to this church retreat together when we were kids, blah, blah, blah.

Like, I've gotten them from, yes, interesting. But it's all positive. But it's just been a whole range of things and walking down the street and whatnot. But what's great is that the way Luke Cage is set up, it's a fun show. and you know and it's it's a villain with a bit of a wink you know yes and and so that ends up and that ends up informing the connection with people on the street like their comfort level is is different the energy is up because the show is a is a Marvel show it's a superhero show so they're like hey man good to meet you brother like you know it's all up and they know you're playing the villain

and yeah I won't speak any more about well and the more I would have to say also I mean The Marvel Netflix shows in particular are really figuring out the villains. They've done really well by you and Wilson Fisk and, of course, David Tennant, so it was amazing, and Jessica Jones. This seems like the kind of character that's kind of delicious to kind of sink your teeth into in terms of the things you get to say and do. And the, I mean, from the set dressings in the office, it's a good, it's a fun world, I would think, to inhabit. It is a fun world to inhabit between action and cut. It really is. But afterwards, I couldn't have prepared myself for how difficult it was to be him for six months.

I really couldn't. There's collateral damage of getting that guy in your brain for that long? Yeah, yeah. Like, I didn't sleep particularly well, and I was a little bit on edge. And at a certain point, I was surprised that I was taking this guy home with me that way. because you're doing really heightened things for 15 hours of your day, of your day, really, and like crazy stuff. You know, the way in which he just explodes and reacts to people is so beyond my own personality. But once you walk in those shoes for 16 hours a day, four or five days a week and bleeding in them to your Saturdays, you start like not.

There's something about it that bleeds over into your life. And so I had to really work on letting that guy go for a minute. Like, it was a real challenge. Does that impact friends and family? Do they call you out on it? Be like, dude, you need to leave it behind it because you're not pleasant to be around right now. It does. It does.

I think my wife would have a little bit to comment on that. Like, you need to chill out, buddy. This is your wife, Marshall. Where it's just like your fuse is just a little, like you might get. irritated at petty stuff, you know, that you normally wouldn't respond to, but you're kind of wearing, inhabiting, I believe, like, there's other actors who might be like, oh, he's just full of it. But I feel like when you do this work that you got to, you, it's this, this silent agreement to inhabit another spirit for a period of time. And so I always have looked at acting

as a sacred thing, you know, not to put too much on it, but I do, I try to respect it as, as a sacred art form. There is something a bit supernatural about the whole thing. I mean, you know, when you think about it, especially when you're doing it for six months on end, I mean, half your day, if not two thirds or more, you're living someone else's life. You're stepping in someone else's shoes. That's not, it's not what the rest of us have to do. And there's a study that I couldn't quote the study, but I have to.

I had read something about how the way your heart rate goes up, the way your cells respond to even if you generate fear, that your body in some ways doesn't know the difference. So you're putting yourself through all these crazy things like take after take after take in a way that is really unnatural. So there's stress that you begin to kind of take on and, and. kind of plant these seeds within yourself. And so it takes time to release that. It takes conscious effort, at least on my part, where I have to kind of get rid of some of these guys. And some of them you mourned.

Like, Juan was a character that I kind of mourned. Like, I missed him, you know. I missed working on him. Yeah. And was sad to rap with that project. Was this your first time going up for a quote, superhero kind of thing? Have you gone through that kind of,

silly audition process before we've had to shoot a fake gun or a laser gun at somebody and um you know i was really really close on and he's not a superhero but to me he was a superhero but i was really close on the a team oh no kidding years ago like the b a barrakish role yeah yeah yeah yeah picked up all this weight and it was between me and like two other guys like 50 cent and quentin rampage jackson or something like that and so i was really close on that project which again feels like a comic for some reason um But I think that was the first time that I really dipped into the Marvel world. I'd always wanted to do it as a kid, but I'll always kind of imagine being on the other side, being one of the hero.

The good guy, yeah. Right, right. But as an actor, you grow to really appreciate the space that a villain has. They get to kind of have all the fun. And what Marvel has done a wonderful job of is really working to make those. guys human and giving you the back story or giving you these moments of Vincent DiNafrio man that guy oh man I mean it's frankly true and to call a I wouldn't call one a villain but he's like he is similar in that he's a

complex flawed guy who has some very redeeming characteristics and and I think if there is a common denominator of the two of these characters is when they're not on screen you want to see them back and that's and that's that's pretty cool yeah it is that is cool Um, so I guess talk to me a little bit about, so this show, Luke Cage is, I would think like when you're in, you know, in the trenches making it, you're maybe not talking about the societal, social relevance of it, like you're doing the work. But I mean, it can't be, um, it should be said that we're living in a time that 20 years ago to 30 years ago, we wouldn't have had for sure of virtually all black cast and a superhero show on television. And that's, that's a moment. That's a significant moment. For sure. Did that hit you when the material came up your way? Is it hit you more now in kind of the analysis of critics and fans or what?

Well, I had been as soon as, I don't know, maybe it was two, three years ago that there was a, something came out in the trades about them doing Lou Cage and like my ears perked up and just was curious to just about the project and what that meant. And like, wow, they're doing something with a black superhero. So, of course, that's interesting to me. And then when it kind of came around and I was offered the part that I was right for and got to be a part of this project and seeing how it was cast and how black-centric this project was going to be

and the fact that you place it in Harlem, which is traditionally a black, neighborhood, I looked at it as an opportunity similar to moonlight, opportunity in telling the stories of the people that come from there. See, diversity, I don't think if you're telling a story about some really small town off in South Carolina or Alabama or what have you, and if every character in there is white, then so be it. I don't feel like you have to throw in the black gas station.

just for the sake of diversity. Yeah, be true to the setting and the story. Right, right. So if race is really a necessary, if it's part of the, if it's a driving point in the story in some degree, then to me it's cool if the cast is white or Latino or, you know. But anyway, I think in shooting the project and being a part of the project,

I think as an African American, you just get excited that your story is being told. That's something that reflects your record. experience is being told, and I think it kind of starts and ends there. And seeing the final product as well, like, you know, I'll get messages from people like, oh, man, like telling, I can tell that they're really proud and excited that this exists because they feel represented. They feel like they exist now. And growing up, especially in the superhero world and in the fantasy world, which drives me crazy, you don't see people of color in those worlds. So in the future, in the past,

in these, in these worlds where there's these people with abilities, like you just don't see stories that have people of color who are leading the charge as well, you know, for 10% of those projects even, you know, which would be somewhat of a close reflection of, you know, of the diverse world that we live in, right? So I think that they, you can't, um, uh, overstores. how important these projects are because look

for me as a kid I remember when Lando Carlisian was in Star Wars and what that meant to me just seeing him at least felt like I was included and when you're with other

six year old or four year old kids or whatever playing Star Wars after you went and saw the movie like you want to just feel like you're part of the story and it wasn't

you know his quote unquote blackness or whatever it was not a part of the story he just happened to be the coolest man in the galaxy that you don't want to cross. Yes. And he can sell you some, what, called 45 on the side, too.

Yes. This might be a record, I think, for your, I don't want to speak for you, but for your interviews in terms of it might have taken what we're, I don't I don't know how long into it we are, but we haven't talked about the entire vision of your name, which is, which is, which is, you're the first Mahershala on happy, second, few is welcome. Thank you. Yeah, thank you. So what is, can you tell me a little bit about sort of the, yeah. My birth name is, it's Hebrew, it's Mahershala Hashbas, and it's the longest word in the Bible.

It means divine restoration. It's in the Old Testament, Isaiah 8, 1 and 3. My mom had a dream about the name before I was born. and long story short I think told my dad about it and they were really young at the time but I don't think he was totally on board at first as crazy and out there as my father was but I so they were going to name me like Christian Devon or something like that and I'm glad I'm glad I got my Herschelah High Prize so I've so growing up people called me Herschel got it's that's only the hometown folks you know um and and family and then later on i took on

more of the name and and there was a certain point where i was going by my full name professionally yeah i noticed that up until yeah i i've got out of school up until place beyond the pines right um and i think what it was in part i just didn't feel like my opportunities were growing Did anyone industry-wise ever have that conversation with you? No, never. No, my reps, everyone was totally supportive. But I started having dreams about shortening my name. And I would wake up and go, I'm not shortening my name again.

Like I'm not doing it. But there was this thing that popped up with Place Beyond the Pines and my reps had approached me and said, hey, for the poster, you know, and they have the little border at the bottom that says starring, Ryan Gosling, they said, you know, they want to put M. Ali so that it can actually fit. Otherwise, you know, you may not be able to be on the poster or whatever. And I said, well, you know what? I'm, I've come to terms basically with, like, give me a second, but I think I'm going to, I think I'm going to shorten my name. I'm going to go by Mahershala, because no one in my family calls me Mahershala.

I would never, I never grew up being called that, but that is my name, you know. And so it was just more of an attempt or something I needed to do for a period of time, in a time in which you're 26 years old and you are defining for yourself back to identity, who you are making statements and getting a feel for, does that feel right after you make this really strong statement? And it did feel right. It felt right for a period of years, but then it felt like, you know what? these couple of extra syllables can can potentially be hindering you having the fullest experience you can have as an actor and what do you value more? Like what is more of an expression

of your identity for yourself, your name or your ability to create and impact people and your name could potentially be getting in the way of you impacting people? Right. So why don't you go by the name that people call you our family? Well, I mean, if you're doing it on your own terms, too, that's the important thing. As long as it's not, you know, the evil Hollywood cabal saying, can you go by Marty Alley?

Yeah, yeah, no, that never happened. Martin? Yeah. You know, I would think right now, I mean, are you already noticing in terms of different kind of opportunities? The word on the street is that you're going to be in this Robert Arriga's film, Elite about Battle Angel, which is a project that I've been following for years. I just received a non-disclosure agreement, like email on my way here. I kid you not. Oh, no, have you signed it yet?

Wait. I literally got that on my way here, so I'm like, all right, shut up about that. Well, can you say what's exciting about that? I mean, I know a bit of that, but I mean, I've talked to James Cameron years ago about this project. It was one of his pet projects. Rodriguez is now directing it. It's a cool cast coming together. I mean, Robert Arega is that source material that's going to be just exciting.

Yeah, he's excited. And so anytime you work with a director that is excited about the material that excites you, He's excited about the character. And I am too, you know. It's, I'm just trying to, I'm going to really try to do my work to make him unique and really connect to that guy and just do my job. I want to do my job and trust that everyone else will do their job. And I hope we make something great for the genre, you know, and it's just simple as that. Just taking each project, taking one at a time.

Is this like a mocap kind of a thing? A mocap. Yeah, like are you doing like the whole green suit kind of thing? thing? Because I know he does a lot of that in Austin, a lot of that kind of thing. You know, I don't think, I don't, I won't have any, I shouldn't have any of that, I don't think. But some other people, I'm sure, will have to do that. I'm positive, actually, would have to do that. Right. Well, I know Robert likes to push the out. Are you being slick, though? I can tell you trying to get, he's working it out, right? He's trying to give me to say something that I shouldn't be

said. You notice I wait way into the conversation. When you, when you die in this one, what, Is it at the hands of... I don't lead off with the juicy stuff. I wait. I lie in wait. Can we run through a couple of the filmmakers you mentioned? Because, I mean, yes, you did a bunch of television, but I'm in particular, and House of Cards, I'm a big fan of. But I do want to talk about the filmmakers, and one of them connects the House of Cards.

Of course, David Fincher, you mentioned, was the first film you were in, Benjamin Button. I mean, that's quite a first filmmaker to work with. I've had many conversations with many. actors that have worked with him and he's, you know, of course, notorious as a perfectionist and the infamous, you know, 30, 40, 3,000 takes. In a way, was that a kind of a great right of passage to have on the first go-round with someone like Fincher? Amazing. Amazing. And look, he doesn't get along with everybody, but I think David really liked me. So it made it easy, you know? Like, it just, and he, for whatever reason, he took to me

and he was he's always been really kind to me and um you have to key into that kind of dark sense of humor that raw he's also the smartest guy in the room like like a james cameron he's like one of those guys that just like that's what i was going to say here's the thing is he can do everyone's job better than they can do their job and they everyone kind of knows it he just can't possibly do everyone's job at at one time you know but i've been with him and literally came knocked on a drawer knocked on the door to my trailer and this was for house of cards. It was for the pilot.

And I had my fitting and it looked good to me. I thought it was cool and I'm a pretty detail-oriented person. But David is another lover. This brother knocked on my door in the trailer. He looked, he was breaking down my suit within like five minutes. The whole suit was torn apart. They came in and split open the shoulders. They were raising the button.

I didn't even realize you could do all that to a suit, but by the time he got done with it, you know, he got Remy's suit right and that look right. But he's a genius, man. It's really hard to describe. It's really one of those things that you would just have to be in the presence of to see how detail-oriented it is, how much he demands a lot of the people around him because he demands a lot of himself. So what do you, I mean, if there are takeaways from that, from my acting perspective is it is it precision is it is it just knowing you have to be

on your game and you can't walk on set like you obviously need to be off book but you also need to like just just be ready for anything or just be ready for repetition or what I mean what is the I think it's about challenging one's capacity to focus right and so some people are real loose about it and kind of find it on the day and just to approach it. He's not like that. You've got to come in ready to work and you discover he's trying to line.

It's almost like he's putting a camera into focus. He's calibrated. And you have to listen and understand what he needs you to do in order to completely recreate the vision that he has in his mind of the film he's trying to make. And so you have to listen

and be ready to work And he hones in and he's trying to get it as close to perfect as possible. And the problem is he believes in perfection. And so it's a wonderful, beautiful marathon working with him. And it's so interesting that kind of one of the other filmmakers you've mentioned as a rewarding piece of material is someone like seeing in France. Who is the opposite? Literally, right?

I mean, just like so loose and finding, creating an environment where you can find your own path, right? He's amazing, too. I'll tell you, like, some people know this. I don't know, maybe this is a common story, but Ryan and Michelle, when they were doing Blue Valentine, you know, they kind of, like, lived together during a period of time during the day, like, for rehearsal. So when I was working on Place Beyond the Pines,

a couple things about this movie, which make Derek the friggin' man. Like, this brother is brilliant, just different. So we got to design, portions of the house so he asked Ava and I like what do you want in your house so I had like these records and a Nintendo because this is like the 90s or whatever he asked me what kind of truck I wanted I wanted a Ford Bronco because of what was going on in that time all these details they built in that are in the movie but then there's a whole room

that that Kofi had that you never saw you never even saw the room totally built out like totally built out and and with kind of a manifestation

of what Kofi became and how he saw himself so the record collection this whole detailed room in case maybe we walked into the room and the other thing one day we're on set

and Derek's like yeah so so what what's Kofi doing tomorrow? And I was like, why is he calling me Kofi? I said, it was in the middle of the week, too, so it wasn't a weekend. So technically, you're kind of working. Yeah.

But I was off the schedule that day. And he goes, so what's Kofi doing tomorrow? And I was like, I don't know. It's probably just taking it easy. We're in Schenectady, New York, mind you. Like, there's not a lot of options. No disrespect, but, you know, there's not a lot to do up there. And he goes,

I don't know. I think Kofi's probably going to go mow his lawn tomorrow. So my homework was to, and he was dead up serious. I went up to the house where we shot and mowed the lawn because that's what Kofi would do. Maybe that's because it was a low-budget film. He was trying to get some help. Yes, yes. But I got to say, it helped. Like, he would do things like that.

And last thing I would say about working with him is he told me that if you do, what's on my page, which on the page, I will be bored. So when you work with Derek, at least what I found we were doing was almost improvving for like four or five takes, but using the script as a skeleton. And then maybe he'd have you go back to exactly what he wrote. And then you would go back to improvving. And then you'd find that you lock in to what was actually necessary to get the scene, to lift it off off the page.

Sure. And that would be the scene. So you would end up, you, you would end up finding the writing of the scene by improvving. And then you would just lock in and kind of keep those moments. And then he would cover the scene like that. So does that like excite you or kind of frightening you as an actor to kind of like. Terrifies me. That terrified me.

Well, that, yes, I understand. But I guess what I'm getting at is like on the next gig for someone like Rodriguez or whoever you're going to work with next. Is it helpful for you to know what their process is before you get on set on that first day Or is it sort of like Because I mean you could get on set that first day Not having worked with them Having maybe one phone conversation who knows

And then be like Oh shit this guy works that way Like I wasn't like I need to recalibrate I'm not there You know I can't speak Or can you kind of roll with any kind of I can't speak for other actors But I grew up

I came from the sports world So you had different coaches You have to play with different people You always had to be a team player. And so I think I'm malleable. I think I would, if I prided myself on anything, I think I would pride myself on being able to adjust and try to meet people halfway and work with them. Right. And just kind of listen for what it is they need. But at the same time, you have to be able to, what I learned in this business, that there is a point where you have

to be able to speak up for yourself and really communicate what it is that you need to and find and find that place that, that happy medium, you know, if what they want is, is a little bit too difficult for you to, to kind of live up to in some way, you know, or maybe it's so different from how you envision the character that you guys could, you know, I've been fortunate. I've pretty much have always gotten along with the directors I've worked with. I would say always, actually. But, well, I guess the most important thing, and I hear this for many actors, is, you know, the death of a film, I feel like, is when you realize you're not making the same film as the director.

Right. Or if actors are not in the same world. Exactly. Sometimes you'll see that they're in different movies. This is a comedy? Yeah. Yeah. Oh.

Yes. Yes. I guess somewhere between on the spectrum of seeing France and Fincher is someone like Francis Lawrence, who I think of as like, it's like the sweetest, most soft-spoken guy yet can kind of command an army. Yeah. He, I mean, you got to think. Anytime I think of Francis, unfortunately, I think about when we lost Philip Seymour Hoffman and how he's handled that situation.

And going, but even just going into Mocking Jay, Francis, like, you've got to think about who's on that movie. Like Philip Seymour Hoffman, Jennifer Lawrence, Julianne Moore, Jeffrey Wright. Woody Harrelson, it goes on and on. Stanley Tucci, like you go on and on. Eighth on the call sheet is an Oscar. winter, you know. Yeah, yeah. So to see him juggle those personalities and when one person is having

issues with the scene and kind of having to shorten the day to work on on this scene to get it right, like that was amazing to witness. But then again, like we really dealt with some crazy weather stuff. Atlanta froze over while we were working on that project. So I've never been a part of a project that had to take an insurance day. We had three insurance. days so three days off took millions of dollars three days off in a really short period of time because of between the weather and and just the loss of of philip and yeah it was that was a tough time and the reason i mentioned that is because the way he handled it was with so much respect and grace and just a wonderful leader.

Like, I really enjoyed my time with Francis and just a great guy, like a sweet guy and a straight shooter, but it's a really, really great guy. Are you the kind of actor or a person that has kind of like, whatever, a list of or a list of, or whatever, a bucket list of the kind of environments you want to be in as an actor? I mean, again, you know, you're in this great spot where I would think you're going to have more choice than ever, hopefully, and you're getting. and hopefully the quality of scripts is getting better and the opportunities are growing.

So now is kind of the exciting and also scary part, I would think. Right, right. There's a lot of filmmakers that I would love to work with and actors as well, because it's just people, I love being inspired. I love discovering something. I love being hip to someone, whether it be music or film or television. But, you know, I think Steve McQueen is amazing. We were talking today about some of these folks. So we literally were having this conversation today.

Christopher Nolan, David Vernay. Gosh, I could just kind of go down the line. There's so many people. There's a lot of good people. There's a lot of, like, wonderful, wonderful directors. I had the opportunity to have a conversation with Spike Lee the other day. And I think, you know, my, it was just interesting having that conversation. Is that an out-of-body kind of experience?

Yeah, a little bit. Because, again, we're about the same age when you grew up to do the right thing. He was like, watching his work and the careers that he launched and how he really just left his imprint on how I see film and see the possibilities in film. But also, too, I would, as much as I would love to work with all these wonderful directors, I almost want to explore with some of the directors I've already worked with as well because those go a little deeper. Go a little bit deeper and find new stories with them. I would give Damner anything to work with Barry Jenkins again. I kid you not. Yeah.

And, of course, David. You'll take that phone call from Mr. Venture? Yeah, heck yeah. Whatever he puts you through, it's worth it, right? I remember there was a project that he was doing that I will not name, but I was up for one of the, leads in this project. It was a big project and it was, that's when I thought it was going to happen. It was like 2011, 2012 and it was a, it would have been a big project. Was this a

project that went or didn't go? It didn't go. It didn't go. I think, yeah, it didn't go. Wait, no, I'm putting my thinking about 20,000 leagues under the sea. Was it the girl with the dragon tattoo too? The project. You'll tell me off. I'll tell you off. I'll tell you off. I'll tell you I need to know Marsha. Yeah, yeah, but that's the one that I thought was going to happen. So I would love to work with David again because he's brilliant. He is, and as is, you know, the performances we've talked about today, I'm a tremendous fan of yours. And as I said, like, it's really, you know, I've had a lot of, most of the actors I haven't here,

I've talked to you many times, and that's always fun, but it's also fun to kind of make a connection with somebody that's at a pivotal moment in their career, and I feel like privileged to be talking to you at this time, I hope you're enjoying this busy time. I am enjoying this time, but I'm enjoying getting to have time to talk to folks like you where you just get to get to have a conversation opposed to the quick bits of, you know, it's a different, that's a different experience. And so I enjoy getting to really connect with folks because that's just more of my personality anyway. Good stuff, man.

Congratulations, and hopefully we'll see each other on the silly award circuit this season. Thank you. Thank you, brother. I appreciate. Congrats, ma'am. All right. That's this week's episode of Happy Sad Confuse. Remember to review, rate, and subscribe to our show on iTunes, and we'll see you guys here next week.

Kasha Mahalovich for the MTV Podcast Network. Find us on Twitter or like us on Facebook at MTV Podcasts. You can subscribe to HappySack and Fuse and other MTV Podcasts on iTunes or Stitcher or wherever you do that kind of thing. The Old West is an iconic period of American history and full of legendary figures whose names still resonate today. Like Jesse James, Billy the Kid, and Butch and Sundance, Sitting Bull, Crazy Horse, and Geronimo, Wyatt Earp, Batmasterson, and Bass Reeves, Buffalo Bill Cody, Wild Bill Hickok, the Texas Rangers, and many more. Hear all their stories on The Legends of the Old West podcast. We'll take you to Tombstone, Deadwood, and Dodge City, to the plains, mountains, and deserts for battles between the U.S. Army and Native American warriors,

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