Happy Sad Confused - Mandy Moore

Episode Date: June 12, 2018

You can stop grouping Mandy Moore in with Britney and Christina. Sure, she was discovered seemingly overnight at 15 and was suddenly opening for NSYNC and dominating the MTV airwaves but the truth is that pop star image was never what Moore was or even wanted.  It's taken a while but Mandy seems to have found her niche. This week on "Happy Sad Confused", she talks about landing "This Is Us" just when she was beginning to think she was the one cursing prestige TV projects she was landing. Mandy also reflects back with good humor on all the projects she's been a part of, from "A Walk to Remember" to "Southland Tales" to finally becoming a Disney princess with "Tangled".   Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

D.C. high volume, Batman. The Dark Nights definitive DC comic stories adapted directly for audio for the very first time. Fear, I have to make them afraid. He's got a motorcycle. Get after him or have you shot. What do you mean blow up the building? From this moment on,

none of you are safe. New episodes every Wednesday, wherever you get your podcasts. Today on Happy Second Fused, Mandy Moore on making everybody cry week after week on This Is Us. Hey guys, I'm Josh Horowitz. She doesn't make me cry. I'm fine. I'm totally fine.

No, no tears in this conversation with Mandy Moore, who, oh my God, if anybody had a name built for pop culture, culture success. It's Mandy Moore. I mean, you don't, you know, Mandy Moore isn't your dentist. Mandi Moore is a pop star and actress. That makes sense. We cover it all in this conversation this week. I'd never, I don't think I'd ever spoken to Mandy Moore before. I'm going to stop calling me her Mandy Moore. I'm just going to say Mandy for the purposes of the rest of this intro, okay? I had never spoken to Mandy before because we're close now and I can say just Mandy. But she was, she was great. Really a good head on her shoulders and

great perspective on a career full of ups and downs and, you know, certainly hit it big in a quick way when she, I think she was just 15, when she kind of went from being the National Anthem Girl back home in Florida to opening for in sync on the road. And suddenly she's on, you know, TRL and all these kind of crazy things and being positioned alongside the likes of Brittany and Christina. And, you know, she's very frank and talking about how, like, she didn't feel she necessarily compared to them. Like she never had the huge successes that those other pop stars had. And she also was frank about saying she didn't love the music she was making back then.

So it took her a while to kind of find her way. Acting came. Some successes like The Princess Diaries and a walk to remember and some things that weren't so successful. Certainly Tangled was a big moment for her and continues to be. She continues to voice that character in an animated series. But nothing changed. our perception, I think, of Mandy Moore more than this series that debuted a couple years ago.

This is us on NBC, now entering its third season, and has really been a revelation for her, for my own enumiglia, for the other actors who really had, we'd never heard of, the likes of Sterling Brown, et cetera. And it has become appointment television for people, families often, each and every week to kind of go through an emotional catharsis. And maybe it's the show that we need now in these times full of weighty issues. And it's a bit of an escape and a bit of something that we can all relate to on a familial level. So it feels like the right show for the right time.

And I think Mandy Moore is very, I know she is very appreciative of the opportunity given that, you know, she was considering leaving acting behind just a few years ago after a string of failed pilots. So good for her. This was a great chat, and she's just a delight, and it was fantastic to chat with. So I know you guys are going to enjoy this one as much as I did. As always, please spread the good word of happy second fused. If you're enjoying this podcast, why not share it with your friends and family and others? And one of the best ways to do that is simply to go on iTunes, review the podcast,

rate the podcast and subscribe of course all that stuff adds up and and spreads the good word of this show that is a true labor of love for me and I hope you guys enjoy it as much as I enjoy putting it out there anyway let's get on with the main event Mandy Moore Star of This Is Us hope you guys enjoyed as much as I did Mandy it's very nice to meet you thanks to meet you thanks nice to meet you Welcome to my silly little office. I love it. We were just saying you've come from the gold standard in the interview business.

I don't know how to follow up, Howard Stern. Did he break you down? Are you like a shell of a woman now? I'm not. No, I feel invigorated. Good. I feel ready to seize the day. Nice.

Good attitude. At least one of us feels that positive. You do too. I'm picking up that vibe from you. Really? Yes. Okay, okay. Let's go with that.

It's funny, like, we're not in the famed, you know, 1515 Broadway, my midtown MTV location. I worked there for like nine years. You did? Yeah, yeah. And now I'm down here. This is better. Isn't it?

Oh my God. God, yes. No one wants to be in the middle of time square. And it's gotten worse in recent years. I was my cliche, like, the fault is I was like, I feel like I turn into the worst version of myself. I turn into like a Vietnam vet walking the streets. I'm muttering to myself and pushing people out of the way.

Yeah. It's just, it brings out the worst. I think it does. But when, you know, you go down the Mandy Moore rabbit hole, to decide what to talk about. Oh, God. Sorry about that. No, it's very interesting for me.

I don't know how it is for you. Sure. Walkdown memory lane. But for instance, there's a couple like MTV related videos that I came upon. Oh, yeah. There's the Y2K, um, uh, New Year's Eve bash. Yeah. That's you and Carson and he's uncomfortably asking you who you want to kiss and you're like

Ryan Philippi. Oh, God. I said that. Yep. Oh. Times of a change. You're not sticking with that answer. I'm not sticking with my cruel intentions answer.

It was the hot answer for sure. There's the Meet Mandy Moore promo video, which I think it seemed like it was like promo for like your first album that maybe was sent out around everywhere. I wouldn't recommend this to you because it would probably psychologically break you to watch these things. It would. I know that. Without even seeing it.

I know it would. I think so. I feel like you do own it all. Like on Instagram, you revel in the throwback. I mean, otherwise, I would probably just be in tears. No, I think it's fun to sort of juxtapose where I am now in my life as a 34-year-old woman versus, you know, a kid at 15 making terrible fashion choices. Like, that's easy.

Yeah. That's easy to chat about. But it didn't take you a while to kind of have a sense of humor about that stuff? No, I think pretty early on I was like, the music that I made on my first record, first two, was pretty terrible. Did, and you felt that at the time? You were like, what was the, I mean, you were enjoying the ride. I was enjoying the ride. I was enjoying just the ability to do the work, but I wasn't enjoying the work per se.

I didn't like step away and go, this is my masterpiece. You were well, you were aware enough to know, like, I'm having fun. This is cool. This is an amazing opportunity. Not going to last forever. I'm not making great art. Yeah. I'm not.

Yeah. I knew that. I knew that. So, and what's the association? I'm just curious since I've been at MTV for a thousand years. Like when you think of the, those like that heyday of like, like TRL. Like what comes to mind? Do you think of that stuff? I mean, I think of my childhood. I think of my adolescence. Like, not only just watching it on TV, like I remember watching TRL or at least

watching music videos like before school in the morning, um, right before I left to like make my first record. And then six months later, I was on the road with in sync. Crazy. And then backstreet boys. Yeah. And then got a contract as a VJ with MTV and was like hosting videos and like filling in for Carson on TRL sometimes and it was terrifying. It was so stressful. But yeah, because I noticed also for a period of time, I don't know what it was, but you had a show of some sort, right? Each summer, for two summers, I had a show on the channel.

And what was it? I would interview people one time and it was like sort of like an advice show and I have experts on. And then the year before that, it was just showing music videos and occasionally like interviewing boy bands and stuff that would come by. right um and then i would do stuff during spring remember when spring break was like a whole thing like i did all that stuff it was pretty wild did it feel like because it felt like at that time you could you could kind of have a lot of different sort of careers right like you're saying like you're

like i'm a musician i'm gonna be an you know i want to be an actor but i could also be a vj or talk show host or whatever did it feel like again um like at that point your career could have gone in many different directions, and were you just sort of like, I mean, you were so young, it was just sort of like, I'll see what comes and I'll enjoy it. I mean, I didn't feel like I'm going to throw everything in the wall and just see what sticks. I felt like it was a bit more strategic, but I also knew that, like, I just wanted to try my hand at everything that came my way, so why not, you know?

And I think because I didn't have, like, too much, like, overwhelming, tremendous success as a pop star musician, like that didn't limit me in a way that I think it maybe did for other people to try all those things. Because it would be weird if you saw Britney Spears or one of my contemporaries, like, hosting on MTV. It was like, no, they were busy, like, making records and touring and being, like, superstars. And because I never really achieved that same level, it kind of opened the floodgates for me to try acting and doing a bunch of other stuff. And I've heard you be, like, very open about that.

and talk about your career in those terms. And I feel like everybody that's always talking to you was always kind of like taken aback because I think we all, you know, conflate everybody at that time in this group. In the same way. Right? And I definitely wasn't though.

Like people are like, you had this huge hit. I'm like, I had one quasi hit. It wasn't like it was top 10 maybe, but it wasn't like number one with a bullet for, you know, eight weeks. Like it's, it like, it opened the door for me and it allowed me to continue making music. But it was never that, like I was never on the cover of Rolling Stone.

I never performed at them TV, the VMAs. I never, like, I was never at that level. And thankfully, because I don't know if I'd still be sitting here talking today, you know? At the time, did you desperately want that? No. You didn't? No. I wanted to have a career that I wanted to be Bet Midler. Like, I wanted to be on Broadway and do movies and TV and make records and tour and do all of that. Like, I didn't want to be pigeonholed into doing just one thing. So I think I knew at a young age, like, this is so cool that I have this opportunity and then I'm lucky enough and that somehow I stumbled into getting a record deal. But hopefully that will be the door that will just allow me to do everything I want to try my

hand at. And you knew enough to know that like in a sense you were kind of playing someone else's role or expectation of you. You were kind of like trying to fit like it seems like the things you loved into what was at that moment expected of a young of a young woman. Like the template was Christina and Brittany and you know you've talked about how like you weren't like a dancer you weren't that person no definitely not and it's just it's just it's just fascinating to think because like I also think of like so you were raised in the like Orlando area right so what was in the water in that area like what was going on I think those like Justin and all of those people were on the Mickey Mouse Club so that was a little different I just randomly happened to be from Orlando like I grew

up there. I don't think there is anything particularly special about Orlando. It's just a random coincidence. It seems strange. I feel like there needs to be an investigation into the water. There might be a medical reason that we're all here in the business. I don't know. Let's hypothesize for a second. Why were the boys always grouped and like the and then the girls were solo? Generally solo. I mean, I wonder why that is. Maybe because like, I don't know. It was like a bunch of guys. to like for for a girl to have a crush on and like they spend more money buying records or different archetypes to like graft onto like that's a very good question i don't know someone should break that down too yes we have two investigations we're launching here today why boy bands and what's up

with the water in orlando i think the why boy bands is probably the most important and the water is also worthy of it's interesting um so you know very early on you you obviously are interested in acting and you make the debut in Princess Diaries. Please tell me Gary Marshall, nothing negative about Gary Marshall. You're the loveliest man ever. I would hope. Oh, yes, he's everything you want him to be. Is everything like everyone expected him to be?

Right. I feel like, yeah, it's not like he turned, like he has a different voice offset. He's still that mensch really like going to like. Yes, he's like your grandpa. Yeah. He's the best. And did it feel like, so did that at the time feel comfortable?

Yes. It did. It felt very comfortable. It felt like I was at something. summer camp with a bunch of people my age, because, you know, they're mostly people, like, young people, like my age in the film. And I'd never obviously had an experience quite like that before. And I just remember thinking, like, oh, I can do this. Like, if this is what these experiences are sort of like being on a set, I can totally do this. I mean, obviously, it's not the case. Like,

I mean, I did do a couple of movies after that that you're, you know, surrounded by other young people. But for the most part, you can't always look into that kind of situation. But it was, it was wonderful. I mean, to be able to start out in a Gary Marshall film with Julie Andrews, it just, it was, it was, I felt like untouchable. It was incredible. Did it feel like a different comfort level than the music, on the music side at that point? Was it, did it? Yeah.

I mean, I definitely didn't know what I was doing. I didn't know how to, like, hit a mark. I didn't know, like, what everybody's jobs entailed on set. But I loved this sort of, you know, group effort aspect of having to come together to make a film work. Let's put on a show for a few months. For a few months that, like, the pressure wasn't solely on my shoulders, like performing live or making a record or visiting radio stations or everything that that job sort of, or that side of my job entailed. It was nice to feel like, ah, this is a bit of a relief. Yeah.

But then again, like immediately after that, you start to star in the film. So it is a little bit more on your shoulders. Your face is on the poster. And thankfully, again, by talent and luck and the people you're associated with, I mean, you kind of hit it out of the park almost immediately with a walk to remember. Yeah. And so does that experience? I feel like there's a lot loaded into that.

Yeah. There's a lot there. But like, again, you know, so you're collaborating, but it's your face on the poster. Yeah. Does it feel at that time like I. I've earned a spot at this table. I'm ready for this. I felt ready for it, but I don't think that I ever felt like I had earned it.

I just, I knew that I was really lucky and the door had been open to me because of the music side of my career. But I had to work for it. I auditioned and I know they read a lot of people for it. And somehow Adam Shankman, who directed the movie, was like, that's our girl. Somehow. Because, again, I truly, I remember Shane West, who was in the movie with me. me, like, actually physically, like, moving me to put me, like, on the correct spot

because I had no idea what I was doing. And then I would look down at my feet to find my mark. And I just was a, I was totally unprofessional. There's this famous story if you've ever heard of it that, like, Spencer Tracy. Like, even like, like, in, like, Guess Who's Coming to Dinner, he never knew where his mark was. Really? But he would use it in his, like, performance.

So if you go back and watch, like, guess who's coming to dinner, he's always got kind of his arms folded and he's looking down, like, very purposely. like, and it seems like he's thinking, he's actually looking for his mark. He's looking for his mark for the T. Yeah. So use it, Mandy, is what I'm saying. I'm going to use it. I'm going to use it.

I've gotten better now on the show. Now, now I feel like it's something I don't even think about. But, yeah, I didn't, I did not know what I was doing on a walk to remember. Was there a point, you can pinpoint looking back at the acting career and the evolution of this career where you kind of felt like you did have a right to be at the table. Like, I've earned my place and I've kind of like there were all these expectations of musician turned actor, and now, like, I'm, you know what, I'm an actor?

I, I don't know if I've ever really felt that way. Maybe, I mean, I guess I feel that way now. But maybe earlier my career, I think, like, maybe with that movie saved, because I felt like it was a bit of an unexpected turn. It was a bit of a deviation. And I was playing against, type and so in that sense like it was a tiny little movie and not a ton of people saw it but

I think the people that did see it were able to pinpoint that like oh that's an interesting choice that she made right and that's when it started to feel like okay I've turned like a tiny bit of a corner and people are starting to understand that this isn't you know something I'm doing to capitalize on my musical year yeah you could do a thousand walk-term members if you wanted to but you're going to take some odd choices take some risks that might be compromise other people's expectations of you. Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, because I would imagine like at that time in particular, you know, my guess would be the offers or the potential offers at that point are the things like a walk-to-remember. Yeah. And then there's like probably the things that are

totally on the other end that are like trying to kind of subvert you. It's like, you know, I was thinking like Elizabeth Berkley when she did showgirls. Like go like, like let's really sully this image as much as possible. There was none of that actually that ever entered the equation for me. And maybe it just never made its way to me. Maybe it got filtered through by, you know, managers and agents and stuff. But that was never, I feel like we, collectively, I had great people helping sort of helping me make decisions, at least. Like, it was strategic.

I knew what I wanted to do. And also, like, what I was interested in doing as an actor. I didn't want to do the romantic comedy, like, girl next door for the rest of my life. And that's why I think I found myself in sort of a lull for a couple of years, because people, do confine you. They want to define you and see you in one sense. And while I understand it, it's tremendously

frustrating as a creative person because you want to do everything but the way people see you. One other weirdo choice that did sneak in, I thought I'm always fascinated by his Southland Tales. Oh my God. Never saw it. Never saw it. I know. It was a, the experience

making that movie was the wackiest thing. I was going to say it was as crazy as the movie. It was. And I remember reading this script and I was like Richard the director I was like I don't fucking know what is happening what is this movie about and I don't even think he could really explain it that's a warning sign that's a good but like it would it would still like went completely over my head but I love Donnie Darko so much I'm like I trust that this guy knows what he's doing and oh no at the time everybody was it was like the most anticipated thing I mean like I mean you look at that cast

that speaks volumes like we all were like that was an ensemble yes that was a I mean And it was like, but I remember it was like me and the Rock. Yeah, you played The Rock's wife, The Rock's wife, John Laracette, Sarah Michelle Geller, Wallace, Sean. It was the weirdest group of people. It was all over the place. But the people that I worked with specifically, I was like, this is bizarre. It's like the best episode of the Love Boat ever made. Ever, ever.

And I just remember the Rock being, what a gentleman. He's a pro. Man, he was a pro back then too. and this was sort of at the start of him not being the rock and becoming Dwayne Johnson. The artist formerly known as. I was at the forefront of his transition. I've yet to find somebody with a nasty word to say about DJ.

I know. I mean, I think he's, isn't he running for president, 2020? He's going to rule the planet. If the planet's still there, he might be. Forty-60, I say, right now. He'll be saving us from some impending disaster. Whatever works. Yeah.

So you never could bring yourself to see it, though. It was just one of those things. I, it's like it never really came out. It was a, did it go to Cannes? Did you go to Cannes? I did not. Okay. I think because I was just a tiny part of that ensemble.

Okay. So then in that period, you are, I mean, you know, in this, you're working consistently in that period. And some of them are kind of like the license to wed kind of a thing and stuff like that. And again, it seems like, you know, you're put in a bit of a box at that point. Sure. And you're taking the best opportunities that you can get. And you're like, I can work with Robin Williams. Yeah, great.

It might not be the best, but it's Robin Williams. And it's a fun studio movie, and I get to go to Jamaica and stay here in L.A. for the summer. Like, yeah, why not? Yeah, I think from the outside looking in, people sometimes have the illusion that, like, every actor has, like, 40 amazing choices always at their feet. And it's like, hey, you've got to pay the bills. Be, if you want to be, like, stay in the game. And you need an opportunity to work as an actor. That's the tough thing about this business.

You really have, somebody has to give you a show. shot in order to flex your muscles to do what you do. Otherwise, you're just sitting, treading water. So were you, what was your attitude in those years when you're steadily working, even if it's maybe not artistically super satisfying? You're working at least. Is it sort of just, were you satisfied at the time? I was.

I was. Because I just figured like, cool, this is, you never know where things are leading. And I just assumed, like, cool, this is just the stepping stone to the next chapter of my career and hopefully this will open the door and you know maybe it'll be a big hit and that will give me more opportunities to do the smaller sort of pictures that are a little bit more fulfilling like were you feeling like in your own head when you were walking into like auditions or whatever were you kind of getting in your own head of like what they were expecting like because you know you come in with that name and that and that YouTube history of like TRL or whatever

yeah and that's hard to break it is hard to break um and you're you're just you're you can be your own worst enemy in some ways too because that's the worst. I think it was hardest with the things that I felt most passionate about that were, you know, again, I'd step in a different direction for me. But knowing that like I had the capability to handle the material, but just getting over that hump of somebody saying like, yeah, I can't see you as the prostitute or I can't see you as the bad girl. Like it just was, it. It felt like a bit of a burden in a way to, like, get people to think outside the box. Was there, I mean, are you the type of actor where, like, were there parts that got away that felt that would kind of dug in your crawl for a while?

That kind of felt like that would have, in retrospect, could have been a game changer. Could have shifted perception. Not shifted perception. I'm trying to think of one that I was like, I felt good about that. Oh, I felt really good about Mamma Mia. I remember auditioning for that. And then that didn't happen. And I was like, damn, I felt like I was really suited for that.

Yeah, that actually makes sense. You know? No, it wasn't for me. Yeah. No. Well, luckily you bombed. Made no money. They didn't do a sequel.

They didn't do a sequel. It didn't change everybody's life. Merrill Street wasn't in it. Look, we're all happy. You're here talking about successful projects. It's all good. But I do. Like, there are those kinds of things where you're like, huh, that was a head scratcher.

But, you know, you're just, you're not cut out for everything. It is kind of shocking to me that you haven't done. A musical? I'm not even talking about movie We can talk about movies But I'm talking about like stage too Both I want to do both But it has to be the right thing

It means so much to me Then I don't want to just like jump into any You know No sure Spot for three months like So and so is filling in for so and so in this show I'm like nah I want to like actually Of that revival yes

I want to like I want to develop something or it just You know Not make the obvious choice Because there must have been Certainly opportunities here in Broadway For sure Right.

And that was the mindset, like, it'll come, it'll happen. Yeah, like, yeah. Right. Right. It'll happen when it's meant to. And movie musical-wise, where it, you know, it seems to be back in vogue to a degree. To a degree. More being made.

Yeah. So. Oh, I'd love to. They must always bring you in for those, though, I would think. No, really. Really? No. Um, I think now, especially, like, I'm at that age where I'm not like an ingenue, I'm not like a young kid.

So it's not, it would have to be a very specific. role. Got it. But I'm in for whatever that is. Yeah. So one opportunity that did come, and it's always sort of the unlikeliest ones that are kind of game changers to some degree. It's like, it's something, you know, it's a voice role. It's tangled. Oh, yeah. Which like, is a

you know, is something that still is fruitful to this day for you. Once you're Disney princess, you're always a Disney princess. You're in, you're in, right? He's in that lifetime contract, it's a good thing. And that's like, you know, I don't often think of, like, voice roles as something you have to, like, go hard after an audition repeatedly for. Oh, you do audition. That's what I'm saying. I learned this

that, like, that was one, that was a highly sought after. It's not, yeah, it's not just something handed to on a silver platter. It, and I figured, because it's the same sort of thing with voiceovers I think for like commercial work and stuff. Yeah. You just sort of like, it's again, like throwing a dart at the wall and just hoping it sticks. Um, you never know what they're looking for. And I feel like it's the same with animation. Yeah. I, I was like, yeah. I mean, it's my, like, the dream of a lifetime to be a Disney princess, but how is that going to happen? How is that going to come to fruition? You don't know what they're looking at.

They want someone older or younger, but I just, I happen to luck out. And it was, again, like that perfect combination of getting to combine, like, both of those mediums that I love, being able to act and sing. And it was kind of like we were, you know, at the forefront of bringing the sort of Disney musical back. Right. And we kind of, pre- Frozen. It was pre-Frozen.

We really primed, primed the world for Frozen, if I do say so myself. You're entitled. I do. I really believe that. Like, we, we opened the door again for that

because it was not in vogue. It was really, like, felt out of step. It was all about, like, the cool Pixar-y sort of side of things. And Disney had kind of become a bit uncool in that sense. Yep, yep.

So that was, that was a game changer for me, like in every, regard it was so much fun and you still get it's going into what it's like second or third season you yeah they're doing an animated show on disney and i do the voice for that and we're just starting our third season and you got and you also got to do i saw the clip that amazing clip i think it might be now like online they showed it like at cinema con and other things i've been to from um ragged ralph yeah so is that is that did you all to record that together no you never do anything together i know but we all got to be on stage together last year at like d23 so that was fun that was quite a photo off yeah that was a photo

There's like literally every Disney princess living. Every fanfic come to life. Yeah. Minus, I think Elsa, minus, what's her name? Idita Menzel. She was like on a tour or something. Adele Dazim, is that what we're saying? Adele Dazim was the only one missing.

Sorry, Adele. Yeah, exactly. So as we hurdle towards the amazing success of This Is Us, which is going to be entering its third season this year. Congratulations, of course. Thank you. You know, and I've heard you talk about. this like you know you were you know you were always especially in the last few years you

were clearly like sought after in the television space like you had some opportunities like you were doing a series of pilots with like really high-level talent so again I'm always fascinated on like kind of the psychological aspect of like failure before the success right because it's like were you getting in your own head where it's like is it me am I the one bringing me a thousand percent when you do um a pilot with Ben McKenzie and then was here by the way we were talking about it yeah yeah when you do a pilot with him and it's i remember like so the year before that i had developed a show with fox and it had gotten picked up by abc or to be made into a pilot and everybody was like it's going it's going it's going and all signs were like

pointing towards that direction and i like went in and even did some like voiceover stuff that they were like they're going to play this at upfronts and then at the last minute it didn't get picked up and i was crushed beyond belief the next year i do this pilot with ben mackenzie so the first year was like half hour's single camera comedy. This was like an hour drama for CBS. It was like Bruno Heller who did the mentalist and then did what's it called with him? Gotham, right? Gotham, yeah. Did the room. I remember at HBO. Yes. And so it was like he had this incredible track record. The guy who directed the pilot had had 20 pilots in a row picked up. It was like all signs points. Yes. It's like the friends cast in the first episode. See you in seven years.

Exactly. And I felt like really good about my work. It was like, I felt like, it felt like, this first adult role for me, and, no, didn't get picked up. Then the next year I do this pilot with James Rodei and Tracy O'Man. Same thing, it was like, I'm clearly the ingredient here. Was that the John Hamburg one too? It was, John Hamburg. I know, so it's like, it clearly wasn't all of these incredibly talented people. It had to be me, truly.

And I feel like the rest of the world was thinking that as well, like, well, this girl is just, she's not cut out for television, which is why I remember. I had, so I'd done these like three failed pilot seasons. Then the fourth pilot season, I remember, couldn't even like get a gig that I liked. And I remember going into audition for some show. I'm not going to say who it was with. And I didn't like it. I was like, this is such terrible schlock.

I can't like, oh, but a job is a job. And I would be lucky to get it. And I remember I went in and like tested for it and I didn't get it. And I was, that was like the breaking point for me. I thought, okay, I didn't even get. the job that I thought was shitty. And I didn't even want it and I didn't get it. So that was when I was like time to make moves and change up the energy, figure out what I want to do next because this is too depleting this rejection. And I signed with a new agency and I remember it was under

the catalyst of like, look, this pilot season thing is, I'm not cut out for it. Like let's not, let's try our hand at something else. And so we all kind of collectively decided, cool, we'll go for like the stuff that's casting year-round, because I really wanted to do television. So it was like, we'll do the Hulu, Netflix, Amazon, like those projects out in the world. And then two weeks later, I get this script for the Untitled Dan Fogelman project. It was like, set up at NBC. And I was like, what? We talked about this guys. Totally. I was like, this, this, somebody didn't get the memo. But then my agent is like really picky and incredibly bright. And, and, and incredibly bright. And I was like, she sent this to me for a reason.

I love Dan. I knew him a tiny bit from Tangled, but like we weren't. He wrote Tangled. And we had a tiny bit of a rapport, but like I didn't know him, know him. I didn't keep in touch with him. I think people sort of miss, they assume that like, oh, we had this friendship and he like brought me this role. Like that was not the case at all.

So I read it, of course, loved it. And I was like, I will do anything to be a part of this. And I went in very early to audition for it. And I remember the feedback was, they really liked you, but you're early on in the game, excuse me, and they're going to, like, go out and read, they want to go to New York and read women, and they want to finish reading a bunch of people here in L.A. And I was like, okay, all right. And as you do as an actor, you sort of just, like, wash your hands of it. And you're like, I'm going to forget about it because if it doesn't come back around again,

I, you know, don't want to be fixated on it. And then, sure enough, like, five weeks later, I got a call like, okay, so it's happening, but they're going to bring you in, they're going to bring in like three girls and three guys to like chemistry read together. And so I went in and I had heard that Milo was like the guy to beat. And he and I read together. He was the only guy I read with. And so I was like, I think this is a good sign. And that was it. Then we both got called at the end of the day and told that we got the part. It must be great to kind of go through with that entire ensemble, but I think it's particularly of Milo, because, you know, we could have very much a similar conversation to the one we've had, you and I have had, I feel like, about him

his career. Yeah, and his career, absolutely. He's had certainly the highs and, like, and he knows what it's like to be, like, on the cover of TV guide with a hot show, and then also to struggle through pilot season and all of that. Oh, we've talked a lot about it. I'm sure. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um, so when, when the show hits, and as I recall from the outside looking in, it hit pretty quickly. Like, it did. So were you, at what point were you able to, accept success and say, okay, this is actually, this is a good thing. And the more curses over. Yeah, the more TV curses over.

Somehow the show was stronger than me. It's so good. It broke people. I have to see, it was pretty early on when we got picked up after our first episode or second episode, like picked up for the rest of the season. and that's when I was like, I can exhale. Like, I can breathe. That was so tremendously exciting because you just hear those horror stories or not even

horror stories, like the reality of network television. Like your first show or two or three episodes like don't perform, that's it. You move on to the next thing. Maybe they'll air the rest of them. Maybe they won't. So I just, I knew how tremendously competitive it was. So that was when I was first like, oh. And then I remember not that long ago.

Like early on, maybe six, five or six episodes in on the first season, we got the cover of Entertainment Weekly. And I was like, oh, this is cool. Like, this doesn't happen. I'm not used to being on a cool thing. And then I remember the next January, January of 2017, being told that we were picked up for two and three. That was like, okay, this is unheard of. This is crazy. It freaked us all out.

Like, none of us were expecting that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it is one of them. I mean, it's been analyzed to death. But it's true. It feels like it was like the right antidote to like our culture and our moment. Yep.

It came at the right time. And we kind of just needed it in these often dark times to kind of just, um, self-soothe. Yeah, a catharsis every week. And is it feel like that from your side of the lens too? Is it catharsis to do it to act in it? It's doing something different for you than it is for the audience, obviously. Yeah, but it's also doing that for us too. Like I'm tremendously affected when.

I watch it. And I do watch it because I'm just a fraction of the show. Like, I want to see my friends work. Like, I want to see what they're doing when I'm not on set. Right. And so I feel like I'm able to participate as an audience member as well. Um, and sort of gloss over watching myself, which I've started to get over. I never, ever used to be able to do it. And now I can do it and sort of, I understand why it's helpful for people. Um, because you can sort of sit and go, oh, I shouldn't do that or I shouldn't, you know, I should do that or more blah, blah, blah. But I, it is, it is cathartic to, yeah, in a personal way, just to be able to pour whatever crazy energy experiences, emotional information from your own life into the work and like, make it work

for you. It feels productive. Use those tears for good. Yes. Use those tears to make other people cry. Are there, do you routinely experience emotional reactions from the public? I mean, this Like, is there a typical fan interaction for this kind of a show, or is it hysteria? No, it's like, it's genuine and it's heartfelt. It's people that want to be vulnerable and tell you why they connect with the show, which is so humbling. I've never been a part of that before. Maybe a tiny bit with a walk to remember just because of the material and I think this, you know, the story and the character really resonated with people.

but this is on another level of like of meeting people where it does feel like I know it's just entertainment but it is like changing lives in a way like it's making people feel something they haven't felt in a long time and and you're right it's there's you can't discount the timing of the crazy confusion that we're all living through right now it is important to be able to like have some sort of hour a week to like pour all of that into right What if the world fixes itself in the next couple of years? Your show has to go off the air, right? Are you willing to sacrifice that for the good of it?

Something tells me it'll time out just perfectly. Hopefully when things... We'll get your five or six seasons in. We'll get our five or six seasons in. The world will just be writing itself again. And then we roll off into the sunset. Perfect. Yeah.

I did see you get points for this. My wife works for the NRDC. And I saw you were at the big shindig last week. Oh. Wow, your wife is... She's saving the final while I do a stupid podcast. That's not true. You guys are like a power.

couple that's awesome let's go with that let's go with it um but uh is that is that a call is that is the environmental kind of call is something that's close to your heart sure yeah i wouldn't say that i'm an aficionado but it's it is tremendously important for all of us to be awake and aware and know what's happening to our planet and to to be compassionate and care and do what we can it's like it's just undeniable at this point and every like across the board in every sense like we all have to step up and do our part now. We are all responsible. We all, and we all have a platform from which to do something. Even if you feel like yours doesn't have the reach, like it's just important to set an example. Yeah. You've used your hiatus well, not only in going to fancy

energy C shen digs, but also climbing Mount Kilimanjaro. Yes, sir. That's a bucketless moment. It was a pretty bucketless moment. Yeah. Was that something that you'd like want to do for a while? Forever since I was a teenager. Really? Yeah. And I, the opportunity they, came about really last minute, and I thought, I've always wanted to do this. If I don't do it now, it's never going to happen. Is it easy? Is it like hiking Runyon Canyon? Can I do it? If I can do that, can I do Kilimanjaro? Physically, yes. Truly, I mean it. If you, it's just the combination of, like, you're camping for a week and not showering and, like, going the bathroom outside and eating weird, eating weird food, and, you know, inclement weather, not being able to

breathe well. If you can just like get through that like combination, you're fine. Did you do it with your fiance? I did it with my fiance and like two of my best friends. So is that like a good like testing of like, okay, we're about to go into a lifetime together. Let's see if we can survive each other in this environment. I knew we would be able to. But we did come out like he passed with flying colors. Yeah. Exactly. So what is, do you do you do have other kind of teen since teenage years aspirations? What else is on the list now that you've hyped? Well now, now, now it's It's like, next hiatus, I'm like, Everest, base camp, which takes like 20 days.

Not Everest, just base camp. But there's, like, lots of, like, outdoorsy stuff I want to do now. Yeah. Which is why I'm passionate about the planet. It's like we, once you do something like that and you really, not even just that, I think anybody who's, like, had an experience where they've fallen in love with, like, Mother Nature and planet Earth, it's, you just can't turn your back on it.

You're like, I have to figure out a way to preserve this so people can see, this in perpetuity for the rest of like till the end of time yeah and let's elongate that as as much as we can yeah and especially in these times where it's like you know five years ago you might have taken it for granted that other people are going to take care of this and it's going to be fine and then you're like wait no it falls on our shoulders actually trying to subvert this yes actively yeah oh I digress yeah we go down a long rabbit holder watching any good TV lately seen any good movies do you do you consume a lot? Are you like a big pop culture? I'm not a big pop culture. I mean I love like I I'm a political

junkie so I like John Oliver is my hero. That's like my favorite. That's that's that's appointment television for me. Other than that like I haven't really been watching a lot. Yeah. What about so. I read somewhere that you might be doing Roland Embrick's film. Are you going to be doing that? I think so if I can work it out. It's a tiny like it's an ensemble so it's just like a week of work for me. But that could be fun. Yeah. It's like you know to do a World War II like epic. you know, period piece. That's not something I've ever done before. Hang out with Woody Harrelson, if you can.

Hang out with, hang out with Woody Harrelson and a bunch of other good actors that they haven't announced yet. And I'm like, yeah, I'll, sure. Hawaii, sign me up. Exactly. So have you found that in the wake of this success, are there new interesting potential opportunities? I mean, you're working like probably eight or nine months a year at least.

Yeah. So it's not like, there's, again, not as easy as, you know. There's a small window. And I didn't work this hiatus because there wasn't anything that I was super excited about. And I feel so lucky with the show and with Dan Fogelman and our writers, like, really valuing and they love women and the way that they write for women is so, it's such an impossible standard now. Like, I don't want to just play the cardboard cutout of a girlfriend or a mother. Like, I want to, I want the whole fully realized picture. So I feel like I can be a little pickier right now.

And that's what I want. Like, I want to work for as long as the industry will have me. So I'm trying to be smart about the stuff that I'm choosing to do at this point. Someone developed some brilliant Wall-Land musical for Mandy Moore. Come on. What's the fuck, guys? I'm ready. It's time.

So when do you go back to work on This Is Us? In like a month. Nice. Do you ready? Yeah, I'm ready right now. I miss those guys. I love our cast and I love our crew. have you met anybody else from the show not enough i spent a little time with milo i need to get

sterling oh you gotta get sterling you'll die he's the best he's the most like gregarious charismatic like he was meant to he's meant to do what he's doing but he's also meant to be like the leader of actors like he just if jane doesn't take over the world it might be sterling i i vote for sterling maybe they can like have they can run together they can be on the ticket together. He needs a VP. Yeah. I would, 2020. Johnson Brown, 2020. I vote for those guys. Five years ago, that was a joke today. I know. I know. I do kid, but, man, I love, yeah, I love our cast, so I'm ready to get back to work. Excellent. I'll let you take some more time off and then get back to work. It's been really good to get to know you a little bit today. It's really nice to chat. Thanks, man.

your success and you're welcome here anytime talking about your untitled movie musical or probably musical. Come to New York, do a musical here. I will. You'll be the first to know. I'll let you know. I'll be right here waiting for you. Thanks. And so ends another edition of happy, sad, confused. Remember to review, rate and subscribe to this show on iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm a big podcast person. I'm Daisy Ridley and I definitely wasn't pressure to do this by Josh. Hey, Michael. You want to tell him?

Or you want me to tell him? No, no, no. I got this. People out there. People lean in. Get close. Get close. Listen.

Here's the deal. We have big news. We got monumental news. We got snack. Packular news. Yeah. After a brief hey, this, my good news. friend Michael Ian Black and I are coming back.

My good friend, Tom Kavanaugh, and I, are coming back to do what we do best. What we were put on this earth to do. To pick a snack. To eat a snack. And to rate a snack. Indifically? Emotionally. Spiritually.

Mates is back. Mike and Tom eat snacks. Is back. A podcast for anyone with a mouth. With a mouth. Available wherever you get your podcasts.