Happy Sad Confused - Marc Webb

Episode Date: May 5, 2014

How did Marc Webb go from holding cue cards for Gwen Stefani to directing “500 Days of Summer” to directing ginormous blockbusters like “The Amazing Spider-Man” and “The Amazing Spider-Man 2″? Josh breaks it all down in an honest and open conversation with the talented filmmaker. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Visit BMO.com slash ViPorter to learn more. Hey guys, welcome to another edition of Happy, Sad, Confused. I am Josh Horowitz. This is my podcast. This is where I talk to people. This is where I talk to you. My interview guest this week is the fantastic filmmaker known as Mark Webb. Yes, he has a fortunate last name given his last two films.

He is the director of the Amazing Spider-Man and, of course, the Amazing Spider-Man 2, which is, as of this very moment, out in theaters, making a gazillion dollars every single minute. You've probably seen it by now. If not, you probably already have your tickets. It's everywhere. And Mark is a fantastic guest on this podcast. He is a smart dude, a guy that comes out of the music video world, who, of course, made his leap into films with the fantastic 500 days of summer

and has made a really significant leap in terms of blockbuster filmmaking the last few years with these Spider-Man films. This is a very honest, forthright conversation with Mark, who's a guy I've gotten a chance to chat with a bunch over the years. He's always super honest, super forthcoming. And I should say there are some spoilers in here. So if you have not seen Amazing Spider-Man 2, either bail out now or just listen closely because we do give ample spoiler warning

before we get into territory that might be deemed sensitive. Having said that, whether you've seen Amazing Spider-Man 2 or not, this is a really a great conversation with a fantastic filmmaker who's got who's really just getting started three films under his belt and it's the beginning of a long fantastic career my thanks to mark webb as always making the time to chat he dropped by the mtb office in the middle of a crazy whirlwind press tour as you'll hear he is way more coherent than i am so which isn't really saying much but nonetheless my thanks to the wonderful mark webb and now my thanks to the wonderful mark webb and now my thanks to the wonderful mark webb and now my thanks to you for listening. And as always, by the way, guys, hit me up on Twitter. Let me know what you're liking or not liking. Let me know who you want me to talk to. The Twitter handle is Joshua Horowitz. And of course, on MTV.com, check out all of our amazing movies coverage. We produce a hell of a lot of great work, both a little bit by me, but frankly, more so by the fantastic staff at MTV News that churns it out day after day. So check it out over

there at MTV.com. And in the meantime, please enjoy this podcast with a fantastic Mark Webb. So, Mark, welcome to the office. Thank you. Welcome to my strange orbital probe of a microphone. I love your orbital probe. I've been hearing about it for years. Really?

People are talking? About your probe, yeah. That's really weird. Horwitz's probe.com. Someone probably has that URL. Yeah. Congratulations in the movie, by the way. I saw it the other night.

Oh, you did? Oh, great. Cool. it again tonight. I loved it. Oh, great. Great. Thank you. So this, I mean, there's nothing like, I can see you totally adore me. I'm just, I'm looking at your office. Like, I've known you, but I've, I've never known your office. Does this reflect the person that you thought you knew? Yeah, yeah, it is. I mean, there's a lot of white left in the walls. You have a lot of more opportunities to decorate. Is there, be honest with me? Is there too much

narcissism here? Is there too much about me? No, not at all. I mean, where else are you going to put it? You're not going to put it in somebody else's office. I can't put it in my apartment at home because my wife will just like roll her eyes and hate me. Yeah. I think it's great. I think it's an appropriate place for it. I think, yeah, and the fact that you acknowledge that there might be some narcissistic compote to it is fine, but I think this is great. I think it's totally appropriate.

You're self-aware, and it's very welcoming. Let's talk about movie paraphernalia. Do you have, because I have some posters up at Color of Money, I have Back to the Future. Do you have posters up in your home? I do. What do you got? I have the Picnay Hang Rock, but I have like the Polish version of that poster. Wow.

I have the Year of Living Dangercy's another Peter Weir movie. I have Kozlowski's Red, which is a, you know, a poet, well, a movie shot in Switzerland, but it's by a Polish director. Yeah. And then I have, wait, the Year of Living Dangercy? Yeah, that's, that's, and then I have eight and a half. Okay. Then I have medium cool. Okay.

And then I have a couple of 500 days of summer posters, but they don't, I didn't hang them up for the reason that you. Are they just cool versions of the posters you like? They were gifts from like the marketing department. I don't know what to do with them because I feel like a jerk if I hang it, hung him up. Right, right. No Spider-Man paraphernalia? I have a Spider-Man poster that was rejected from the movie that was too kind of abstract, but really cool. It's like Spider-Man coming kind of swinging through the Brooklyn Bridge, it's very symmetrical, really graphic.

But I went into the poster designer's office and I was like, that is the coolest thing. And, you know, I guess the poster didn't test well or something, I don't know, but I got a copy of it. Have they done, have you been Mondo-Filed yet? There is a Mondo poster for the IMAX version of the movie, which is if you have a much more impressionistic version. Totally. So let's talk, I mean, first of all, you're in the middle of this crazy tour. I mean, you know, I've covered movies for a while.

You've been a part of this industry for a while, but there's something like a press door for a Spider-Man film. Like, these are, like, crazy. It's epic. It is, it's absurd. You know, I've only made three movies. So I think I've been permanently spoiled as to how a press tour is done because it doesn't seem like, I mean, it seems like a big deal,

but it's like, it seems like that's the way it is. But I do remember from 500 days of summer, like, you know, literally on a bus to North Carolina to go to some festival to really chill your movie. It's like you're selling it out of the back of your car. Yeah. And then this one, you know, we were going, we went to Beijing, Tokyo, Singapore, Paris, London, Berlin, Rome, then back to New York. I mean, you're everywhere.

Right. And it's absurd. and there's an enthusiasm for the character for Spider-Man. And I think for the story that's coming in, there's a curiosity about this story, which is a little bit controversial at times, that is really exciting. And you intersect with the world in a way that when you're making the movie,

you're in a bubble. And you're like, oh, my God, this is something that means a lot to a lot of people. Yeah, there's a lot of, I want to cover with you. One thing I want to, like you mentioned 500 days, and that was the first time I ever spoke to you. And I vividly remember, and people ask me, I've been to Sundance,

now I think like seven or eight times and like a memorable moment for me just as a filmgoer it was honestly seeing that first screening of that film that night with the echoes it was just amazing it was just such like I mean I didn't know what to expect and I feel like a lot of people didn't and it was just there was such a great energy coming out of that screening it was crazy it was it was so weird and I think about that everyone's while just because it was the first time we screened it in front of a big audience you know a couple people had seen the movie before but it was the first time we'd seen it screen in front of a big audience. And I was terrified, legitimately didn't know what to expect.

And all of us were overwhelmed by it. And it was great because, you know, Scott and Michael, who were the writers and me, it was our first time to the barbecue. It was a first time. And there was something very special. And we were sort of innocent about my parents were there. My friends from high school came. And it was such a massive theater, you know?

and walking out of that and coming into that environment. I mean, I had worked at Sundance as a volunteer when I was in college and going back to that theater where I was parking cars just a few years before was a real wonderful moment. It was a really, we felt really blessed, honestly. Had there been close calls in terms of like you'd obviously establish a good body of work in music videos in terms of getting a feature off the ground? Have you been offered kind of commercial stuff before?

Not really. I mean, there's a, I was never offered anything. I had to fight for a chance to do anything. And there's, you know, I tried to get the, there's a movie called The Strangers, which was written by a guy named Brian Bertini who went on to direct it that I really wanted to do, which is the opposite of 500 days of summer. And then this script came around and I just was, I remember making it just like, I got, I have to do this. And I created a presentation. I really went after it aggressively. And luckily I was able to do it. But before that, I mean, Even having done all the music videos, people weren't really paying attention in that way. Were you comfortable with actors from the start? Is there a difference in directing, like, musicians and actors? Well, that's a really good question. There is something that's wildly different. You know, when I was in high school and college, I did a lot of theater. I was very interested in theater, and I loved, particularly weirdly musical theater when I was a kid,

though I can't sing for shit. But the, I let's swear. Yes, please do. I can't sing. and um does that say the fardist on your thing pooping 101 fartist these are ideas for future comedic bits Pacino slash chastain pooping 101 and fartist okay this is i'm all right sorry um so theater anyway desbinism so i like uh so i had some experience doing it and then um you know I did music videos which is a very different thing I mean you're not really getting a performance a long

form performance from a musician you're trying to get them to be themselves which they're very familiar with it they're in their comfort zone in a way so there's there's you're not pushing them unless you're doing a narrative video in which case usually the act the performer really wants to do that they want to yeah yeah so but it's it's different it's just you're it's like you're telling them exactly what to do and where to move and how to look because you have you know three seconds to tell a certain part of the story is very specific um but working with actors I had to learn very quickly how to deal with them. You can't just say, do this here and they're like, well, how does that relate?

Why would I do that this morning when I, you know, when yesterday and the scene before, I was, I was really agitated. So I'm going to come into the scene really agitated. And I was like, whoa, you know, I had to really think about it on a more, on a deeper level, the nature and the evolution, the performances. But I had remembered that from doing theater. Right. You know, and it was a, it was an education, you know, a trial by fire the first week of 500 days of summer and learning how to speak with those guys. But it very quickly fell into, I really learned a lot from Joe and from Zoe. I was going to say, because these are guys also that, despite their youth, had, like, done tons of movies.

I mean, Joe did that TV show, Zoe had done a million different things. And as we know from Joe, like, obviously had aspirations to direct himself and knew everything out of. Yeah. He's, you know, he was a very smart guy. They're both really smart and very thoughtful about their characters, and you really have to dig a little bit deeper. And that really was, like, you can't, when you're dealing with actors, there's different kinds of actors.

Sure. But, like with Zoe, you can't just say, I won't be sad. You can't direct a result. You have to talk about the elements of the soup, like, you know, how, what happened that morning, you know, what happened in their childhood, their natural disposition towards love or towards romance or towards a certain kind of song.

Right. You know, you can't say, you know, you really like Carla Bruni, and so you're really excited to hear it. You say, well, you heard the song in Paris four years ago, and you haven't heard it since then. It's a really rare song, and now you're remembering it for the first time.

And so learning how to talk to an actor in order to engage their character, that was a lesson that I needed to them. learn. And people talk to obviously about both the first Spider-Man film that you directed in and people that have been looking enough to see the new one, that obviously so much of what you've brought to it

is working with the actors and that Andrew Emma relationship, which is kind of the heart and soul of these first two films. And I'm curious, like, on these giant behemists, like, do you have the time to have those conversations? Like, do you have... Oh, yeah.

I mean, that... I was working with the script, you know, with writers, and also with Andrew and Emma. Like, they would come in and talk through the scenes. And so we, we had really prepared beforehand. And then when we were shooting, like, well, listen, on 500 days of summer, you had three takes and you're done, you know? Here, we could really, we could spend the time to generate the kind,

to discover things in the moment for it to feel real. Yeah. I mean, there is a, but also in terms of the schedule, I would really prioritize more emotional scenes and try to, make sure to protect the process of the actors, which often really involves time in one way or another, in order to protect that. But yeah, that was what was great about working

on a movie of the sales, you can indulge in that a little bit. When you, okay, so when you're in the mix getting this gig in the first place for Amazing Spider-Man, how much of it did you go into with kind of mixed emotions? Because, you know, I mean, like you had one film under your belt, It's this, again, we've talked about this giant behemoth. Did you second guess yourself when you were even making your pitchboard or when it was offered to you?

Like, how much did you go in 110% and how much did you have some trepidation? Well, I had finished 500 and I didn't know what to do. And I had talked to them about Spider-Man sort of in the abstract. And I was such a huge Spider-Man fan. I was so curious about it. And I was like, but I, but I was also, I was totally ambivalent or resistant to because I was like, oh, they just made these other movies before. Um, is it worthy? And then I just like, like, Amy was like, well, what would you, Amy Pascal who runs the studio, um, uh, was like, well, what would you do? What, what is your Spider-Man? And I went back and I thought about the comics. I thought about it way it made me feel when I was a kid.

And I just, you know, I, there was a moment. It was over Christmas, um, of that year. And I just, I just, I couldn't sleep. I found myself not being able to sleep thinking about the possibilities of it. And I was like, I got to do this. And I went in and sort of gave an idea. And it really emanated from, I was thinking about who Peter Parker was from the very beginning. And it came down to, like, to me, the definitive moment of his life. I said this before the definitive moment of his life is not the spider bite.

It's him getting left behind by his parents. And what does that do to him as a human? And where does that, that irreverent humor come from? And where does that sort of punk rock attitude come from? And where does that youthful spirit come from? And where is the more, you know, there's a lot of tragedy in there. There's a lot of, like, drama and the sensitivity that that character has. And that's all it comes from that, too.

Did you talk to filmmakers you either knew or didn't know before you got on set for the first one in terms of, like. Sure. Well, when I did music videos, my office was next to a guy named Francis Lawrence, who's now directing the Hunger Games movies. and he at that point had done I think he'd just finished I Am Legend and so he was somebody that I had sort of looked up to was like the older guy in the music video department

and he had made movies and I was like he had done it I always thought he was smarter and more talented than I was so it didn't really help the cause like naturally he should be doing big movies because he's such a brilliant guy

but there was he was very thoughtful and somebody who I knew very well who encouraged me and talked about the visual effects which was the most intimidating component of it but it's just I think

me I think I'm a risk taker a little bit as a human and I am always willing to just see what the fuck happens and I cared enough about it that I felt comfortable I didn't know if I was going to make it work honestly I didn't you know but I was like what are you going to do if you're not willing to make mistakes

in life you got to just go for it Yeah, you've been pretty candid in talking about how like the, especially you talked and just mentioned the effects was kind of like the big kind of unknown for you in the first one. And as good as they were in the first one, I think they're leaps and bounds better. And you really have that experience of soaring through the air with Spider-Man in a great way this time. Do you look back on the first film with more criticism, self-criticism than others do? Are you generally happy? I mean, how do you kind of look back on the first movie? I don't, it's very hard for me to watch it, to be honest with it.

It's uncomfortable. that's true of every movie I've ever made I haven't watched 500 days of summer since it came out I can't it's very difficult to see anything beyond the flaws of it I mean I and I there's I'm not actually doing it's actually gives me enormous things I feel really bad

I do when I watch those things because there's things I always feel like I could have done things better there are occasionally music videos that I've made where I'm like ah you know what that worked you know um Is that just because again it's precise you have like three and a half minutes to like And you can kind of control every single element?

Yeah, probably. Well, I actually think it's just chance. Okay. Like everyone wants to want to say, and things that I like, it just sort of ends up working out. But it is. Like, I'm very proud of the first movie, and I think we accomplished something.

I think what happens particularly with Andrew and Emma and that relationship between Peter and Gwen is very different. And there's parts of it that are, I think, are good that I'm really proud of. But it's, it's, that's just a mental thing. That's just a self-hatred. That's why we get along. Yeah. But it isn't, yeah, no, I know.

Well, it's an important part of being an artist. Exactly. So I'm just curious, what do you beat yourself up about it? And I'm always speaking about the first one. Well, I think we didn't do enough action early on. I think that there is, you know, I think some of the visual effects I thought I could have done better on. I mean, there's all sorts.

I don't want to get into it too much. But listen, anything that anybody has ever written or said about that, you know, I'm acutely more aware of than you could ever possibly imagine. I'm debating internally right now whether we want to, and we can give spoiler warnings talk about some spoiler stuff. Do you want to talk about spoiler stuff or no? Well, when is this going to air? We can put it on that.

We can put it out after. What do you think? Yeah, sure. I mean, let's say, we'll do some. Okay. Let's do it. Let's say some spoiler warnings right now. Spoiler.

If you haven't seen the movie by now, get D to a theater and see it. Because, I mean, one of the things I want to talk about is what I really, frankly appreciate about the new film is as much as I frankly I really like the other Marvel movies the Avengers and Captain America is fantastic is I want consequences in a film I want when someone someone dies they should stay dead yeah and that hasn't happened in a lot of other comic movies yeah and because of what you built in the first two in that relationship um the death of Gwen Stacy really means a lot and it's a powerful moment well the the comic books uh that came out in 1971, it was an amazing Spider-Man 121, the night when Stacey died, was written by Jerry Conway.

It was probably the most controversial comic book ever, I would say. Certainly one of the most in Spider-Man, if not all of comics. But things changed because people suddenly, they didn't know what to expect. Simply because there is consequences. I mean, it's like you watch Game of Thrones and you're like, you don't, when somebody, when a sword comes out, you don't know what's going to happen. Yeah, anything could happen. Anything could happen and it's going to be real.

And that's the, you know, what's, I think, very important about storytelling. One of the big parts of storytelling is it's about healing and it's about recovery and it's about resonating and about and this. But healing, in order for that to have impact, it has to come from, you have to come from a very deep place. The wounds have to be deep and feel real. in order for the healing to have, to mean something, to matter. And I think all movies, it happens in romances when, you know, the great love stories, they don't always end up together. Yeah.

And you have to have that. Absolutely. I mean, Casablanca, Shakespeare in Love, you know, that's a really, it happens a lot. It's very powerful. And I think because it's very real. And to me, when I think about the movie and what the last sequence is really about, the theme of the movie is you have to value the time you have with the ones you love. It's about time and the time you have together.

And the first shot of the movie is ticking clock. And Richard Parker says, I always wish I had more time. And then Gwen's speech states, Stacey and her speech is like, you know, time is luck. And then the last sequence of the movie takes place in a clock tower where Spider-Man is pulling the cogs of the wheel and he can't stop time. Even a superhero can't stop time. And I think that's something, it's why it feels real and it's why it resonates. And it's something that I wanted to do from the very beginning. That's something, it's actually, we were building that up from the first movie.

And rather than making it palatable by making the romance or the relationship tweet, you know, we ended up getting a great gift in the chemistry between Andrew and Emma, which makes that moment, I think, doubly impactful. Totally. You know? Does that also scare you a little bit going into? Because you are doing the third one.

Yes. I mean, you kind of have to start a little bit from scratch. And I mean, the pluses are the first two movies, the heart and soul has been in that relationship. Yeah. The scary part is it. It's scary. It's scary.

It's scary for Peter Parker, too. Yeah. You know what I mean? And that's, it's funny, like, all those processes that the character goes through, we all go through as creators. And, you know, I imagine. You know, we're still working on what that exactly will be, but it's, you know, if there was, we've seen Spider-Man no more. I think the next movie will be Peter Parker no more.

I think it'll be about this guy who's, you know, who's committed to being Spider-Man, but is afraid of, you know, connecting to anybody as a real human being. Are you looking forward to as much as you've loved this franchise, starting to mix it up a little bit? I mean, are you going to be able to do anything until after three? don't know, I don't know how that's all going to unfold, honestly. I, you know, I love Spider-Man, and being able to work on this has been really fantastic, and it's so in my blood. But, yeah, you know, there's stories that I'm curious about telling outside of that, a lot of scripts and ideas that I'm working on, but it's hard to focus on that while we're,

you know, doing a movie like this. Yeah. I would think, though, that part of the beauty of this also is, like, once you can helm one of these and know you can steer this gigantic ship it's got to give you some confidence going forward that like, okay, if I can steer something this big and retain some kind of humanity in it

Right, I mean it's a different muscle though like this is, you know, again with 500 days of summer it was so much about like my friends and I making this little movie under the radar and we built it ourselves and these, the filmmaking is different because you're supporting, there's iconic elements of the character that you have, you cannot violate. right you know spider man's a good guy he's trying to do good peter parker is imperfect and

stumbling through life that tension i mean between those things there's all those things that you're obliged to yeah um which kind of ties your hands a little bit in terms of it well it guides you but also uh it's very specific in what kind of movie it will become right um so there is a part of it that you know me that wants to do something completely radically different i mean it's certainly you know you occasionally fantasize about that but you know we'll see how that evolves when you saw i'm curious when you went when you talked about that it occurred to me i remember the hullabaloo from the comic bands last summer with like man of steel and they all went up in arms about like zach um making the choice and the writer of david

making the choice that he killed zod at the end were you kind of like sympathetic being like oh i they're trying to do something different yeah um you you know you're caught between a rock and a hard place a lot of times with these making of these movies i mean listen it's a great honor. But as storytellers, I think everybody's trying to keep people excited and interested. And you're always trying to push, take whatever license you can without violating the sort of iconic elements of that character, whatever that character is. And I think you are required to reinvent certain things. And I think that's, you know, they made bold choices and they're known for that. And they should be, I mean, I have maybe more sympathy than other people that think they really admire

what they're trying to accomplish. Sure. So you mentioned that obviously having a great affection for this character growing up. Were you a big comic? Yeah, there's a comic book store down the street from me called Capital City Comics. Own by any, Bruce Ayers. I think that's how he pronounced his name.

And he yeah, I used to, I mean, I would go there, I would get grew the wanderer. Oh my God. You literally just said like the one comic that I was obsessed with as a kid. Yeah. That was unbelievable, wasn't it? The funniest comic ever. I always thought that I heard John Favreau was attached to make it. Oh, really?

I remember that when I was a kid, like it was thought that, like, Gerard Depardieu would play. That's perfect. What great cast it. Yeah. Or, like, Will Ferrell could do it or something. Like, their Jack Black would be great. Yeah.

I mean, that's sort of the, that's the comic book fan version of Gru the Wanderer. You know who else I bought a filmmaker-wise that also, I don't know if you know, was a huge Gru fan, is a Ryan Johnson. Oh, really? Ryan Johnson, like the same kind of conversation. You're kidding. I know Ryan really well. He mentioned Gru and my eyes lit up the same way.

Oh, he would do a great Gruer the Wanderer. Maybe Greer Wander should be a TV series. What do you think? I'd watch that. Like live action or animated? Either one. Probably animated because you could kill more people. Right.

But he's, it came out. It was sort of a reaction to Conan the Barbarian, wasn't it? Yeah, yeah. But, and Sergio Argonus, who of course did all the Mad Magazine stuff. Yeah, he was, that I've actually gone back and looked at it. It's pretty funny stuff. It's pretty incredible. It's expanded the vocabulary.

I remember just like, it was a very smart, well-written. Absolutely. It really was. Very thoughtful. I love this. That's the comic book that I was sort of most into. And then like when I was really, when I was much younger, I used to read ElfQuest. There's a little like short series like Robotech Macross saga. I remember liking G.I. Joe. There was a comic book called Scout that was into. You know, Spider-Man actually at the beginning I was little, it was sort of not above my head, but it was like it was hard to step into the universe because you didn't know the. Yeah, there's like all these other things going on. It was a little harder. But then gradually, as you get older, it was Peter Parker that was easy to connect to.

Like, his problems were so relatable. Yeah, exactly. I have the same kind of thing on the television side with, like, Doctor Who. It's like, I know I should dive in, but the fact that there's like 40 years of history, I get frightened. I don't have that kind of time. Yeah, exactly. Are you of the opinion that, like, this crazy comic book taking over in the movie and history thing that's happened special in the last 10, 15 years is going to, does it run its course

at a certain point? Well, the audience will tell us, won't they? I mean, they have all the control, whether or not they think they do. They certainly have all the control. And, I mean, clearly there's an appetite for it. And, you know, it's funny, like, again, going around the world, like, there is, we are a world that is literally at war, figuratively at war, divided by religion, politics, national borders. It is really awesome to see some of these characters that everybody believes in. It doesn't matter if you're in Russia or China

or Tokyo, and there's a sort of an uncynical engagement, especially amongst the kids. And if you can get like, I mean, it's hard to think about two kids that love Spider-Man going to war with each other down the road. Do you know what I mean? And maybe that's stupid and maybe that's silly and maybe that's, you know, Gimlet

eyed, but there's something really warming and thought, I like that. It's really fun to be kind of uncinical about a movie for a second. And, you know, whether or not people like it, you know, whether or not there's a point of market saturation. I mean, again, the audience will tell us. Yeah. Are you big, I mean, do you have time to kind of, like, absorb whether it's television, film, comics?

I've gotten to see, thanks to On Demand stuff. I mean, I'm totally caught up on Game of Thrones, except for the haven't seen the last one. I love Amy Schumer. She's, hello, my lady. I can watch that over and over again. She's so funny. There's a lot of great comedy on TV now, I feel like. Yes, I agree.

Well, there's great just TV all around. So I've been seeing more TV than movies. I mean, I haven't seen Captain America, which kills me because I've heard it's really good. I feel like a jerk for not seeing it, but I will. I'm going to see it very shortly. You have a good excuse.

Yeah. Do you miss music videos at all? I do. I do. I think the last music video I did, what was it? It was probably a Green Day video for maybe 21st century breakdown or something like that. But I do miss it. Well, you know, did I do something with Rich?

I don't remember. Do they come to you and you just are too busy? I haven't had time. You know, I would do it. They don't make music videos at the same rate that they used to. You know, God, I spent so much time in this building MTV before. Like, this is, I don't know if I told you, but I was here, like, in 2000, I was on the road with no doubt doing behind-the-scenes videos. And doing New Year's Eve, 1999, 2000, I was holding up the cue cards for Gwen Stefone.

Bonnie when she was doing End of the World as we know it. And it was such a great and such a magical night. What was, how did you, okay, we haven't even talked really like background. How did you even get into the first directing gigs? Well, I moved, in school in Colorado, I moved out, and I worked for a writer, and I worked for a guy named Doug Prey who did music documentaries, one of these great music documentaries called Hype, which is about Seattle, the Seattle Grunstein. I worked on that movie for him for a while.

and he taught me how to edit and then I would do a lot of editing gigs and eventually I started editing music videos and I would do behind the scenes like EPK stuff for A&M records and for bands and then A&M got bought by Interscope and then I sort of started hang out with all the people at that record label

even though I was a freelance guy and I was like you know I can direct stuff if you want and so I started directing little press kits and behind the scenes stuff and that's how and I would edit him because I could do all that stuff I would shoot him I would edit him I would produce him I would direct them

and that's how I went on the road with no doubt for like six months and that was really great because I would shoot all their shows and actually that really was informative because I couldn't conduct them I couldn't direct them I had to sit and observe and watch them and just be aware all the time

and that trained me into like thinking about how to do the coolest shots and how to get the right angles and then you know gradually when I started doing music videos, I could conduct them and orchestrate things a little bit more. It developed that other part of things. But it was great about, I mean, gradually I just did little music videos and then we'd do bigger and bigger music videos. What was great about music videos, and I did many, many, I probably did over a hundred. Like, there was this,

any time I wanted to try something, whether I wanted to do like an action movie, I wanted to do like a little romance or I wanted to do just a performance video. I could, there was always, I could always kind of reinvent myself you know what do you consider I mean I you know when people ask me for advice in this industry I often say the kind of thing you were just saying it's like you know become a jack of all trades know how to write know how to do the interview know how to do your own research all that it sounds like it's the same is applicable in your end did you start interning at MTV I was an intern at Charlie Rose you're kidding do we talk about that maybe I worked for Charlie for four years did you

polished the oak table I don't know No, but it was invaluable. I mean, I researched and wrote all the questions and like, you know. Oh, so he's, we did Charlie Rose in the first movie. He's a hero of mine. Like, he's such an incredible interviewer. And you go into

that space and it's like a black vault. Yeah. Totally quiet. And he zones in on you. There's nobody in there but he was incredible. It's, it's almost as good as Horowitz, but not quite. Thank you. I'll let him know next time I see you. But I guess my point It was like, what do you say to aspiring filmmakers in terms of, like, is it good to be a jack-of-all-trane?

Well, you know, something that happens with, with, I think a lot of young filmmakers, you know, you, I mean, I first and foremost, just make stuff. And I think you're allowed to make stuff now more than you ever were. But there's also this, I think there is a, sometimes there is, people are too anxious to move, to accelerate their career rather than focusing on the craft. I think in order to focus on the craft, you just have to do it. But you also have to, I say this a lot, you have to be self-critical without being self-loathing because you don't want to give up, but you have to be really honest about the work that you're creating. And it's very easy when you don't have a lot of tools or experience to just make something get really frustrated and think it's crap and just throw it away and give up. But if you can be like, you know what, this is, this was bad, this was bad, this is bad, but this thing actually worked.

you know yeah and I want to build on that and I'm maybe this this didn't work because of this and this didn't look right because I didn't use the right lens or maybe I didn't light it right and maybe you know

I have to study how to do this I think that is really imperative and like everybody's when you're starting out there's this like I want to get an agent like read my screen yeah and you're like

it just takes a long time and a lot of focus and a lot of hard work I mean I always say like for people that like you know I'm the most improbable on-air career ever I didn't do anything on camera until I was like 30.

And I know in this day and age, it's like unheard of. It's like you feel like you have to be 16 years old. You weren't like Gideon Yeago at 2013 on camera? It feels like it only happens that way, but there are other paths. Just buy your time. Right. For Charlie Rose. Yeah, no, no.

I mean, was that your objective, was to be in the camera? Honestly, it was. I mean, I did like college radio and stuff. I enjoyed interviewing people myself, but it was happenstance. I see. I want a raffle. Did you? No.

I'm so surprised how coherent you are, given the last, like, week or two of your life. No, you get used to talking. I'm a little days. I was telling Eileen on the way here, like, I'm a little lightheaded, but, you know, what are you going to do? You were remarkably coherent today. How much more of this do you have? We have a cherry day tomorrow. We're doing a lot of great things with Spider-Man, like these, it's called Stay Amazing.

It's a campaign that's like, you know, there's a lot of community outreach and bringing attention to these great things, sustainability efforts and so on. so we're doing that tomorrow and then it's just a couple more days of press and then and then it's you know wait for the who knows the money bags to just roll in it doesn't quite work that way for me unfortunately it's not like the old days but you do know i mean i was saying to somebody last night um that like i mean it's opened up internationally as we take this in some markets and it's not quite well it's not quite well it's quite good so you should feel good i feel right yeah um it's always good to see you buddy and i'm actually going to see you tomorrow at that Oh, great. At the school event and tonight at the premiere, so it would be sick to me.

All right. Sounds good. I can never get to see you, Ty. Okay. I mean, American history is full of infamous tales that. Decades or even hundreds of years after they happened. On the infamous America podcast, you'll hear the true stories of the Salem Witch Trials and the escape attempts from Alcatraz, of bank robbers like John Dillinger and Pretty Boy,

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