Happy Sad Confused - Martin Sheen

Episode Date: October 31, 2025

Martin Sheen -- actor, activist, patriarch of one of the most storied acting families in the business! And now a fellow podcaster. The legendary Martin Sheen joins Josh to talk about his new venture and to reminisce about his early days with Al Pacino and his iconic works -- from BADLANDS and APOCALYPSE NOW to THE WEST WING and THE DEPARTED. UPCOMING EVENTS Brendan Fraser 11/18 in NYC -- ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Tickets here⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Check out the ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Happy Sad Confused patreon here⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠! We've got discount codes to live events, merch, early access, exclusive episodes, video versions of the podcast, and more! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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It was my entrance. To the good entrance. Prepare your ears, humans. Happy, sad, confused begins now. Hey, guys, it's Josh. Welcome to Happy, Sad, Confused. really cool one today a legend someone that's been doing it a long long time and has always delivered martin sheen is on the podcast martin sheen apocalypse now badlands the west wing um

truly an honor to have them on the podcast for the first time uh i hope you guys enjoyed this episode thank you as always for checking us out on youtube or spotify or however you're enjoying the podcast um a little backstory on this because this is this is a fun interesting i think interesting backstory, just worlds colliding in a strange, bizarre way. If you follow the podcast, you follow my work, maybe you know a few months back, I got the opportunity to host a reunion for the Breakfast Club. This was the first time the cast had reunited, particularly with Emilio. Emilio had not seen them in decades. And what I learned for that live event, and you can look this up online was amelio really you know without tooting my own horn decided to do that event in part

because he wanted to talk to me on the podcast and we recorded a great great episode we got tons of great feedback on that one check that one out too that has led me to get to know the estevez clan what a privilege um truly like i i know you know amelio got him to do a little bit since that conversation and talked to a couple of his siblings, talked to Martin, and Martin now has a podcast. And, you know, he references it here. So I'll reference it in the preamble. I did talk to Martin and the family a little bit as they were kind of put, he was putting his podcast together just because I've been doing it a while. And they were looking for some advice, guidance. And I gave them the little that I have, having been in the

podcast game for a while. So, yeah, wow, like growing up watching Martin Sheen's work and Charlie's and Emilio's and to, I don't know, know them now in this capacity is one of the blessings, one of the unexpected blessings of being in this business and, I don't know, sticking around a while. So that's kind of the preamble. So I was very well aware that Martin Sheen was going to do this podcast for a while, and now it's here. And I highly recommend it. It is called the Martin Sheen podcast. It's available wherever you get your podcasts. And it's kind of exactly what you want from a Martin Sheen podcast. These are very well-crafted 20-minute episodes that are mixtures of poetry and stories and conversations and all told in that very unique Martin Sheen

timber, that voice that is so recognizable. He's a reassuring voice. voice in these unsteady times and a man who i have a lot of admiration for as as not only an artist but as a human being um if you look up his his activism and the way he's kind of stood up for causes that i generally agree with um he he has walked the walk talk to talk over his long amazing life so really privileged that i got a chance to have this conversation with him about a lot of things um before we get to that quick reminder as always patreon dot com I have to say, at patreon.com slash happy, said, confused, early access, discount codes, live events. We've got Brendan Fraser coming up very soon, November 18th, 90 seconds street wine.

Tickets are still available, but it's selling fast. Get in on that. And yeah, as I always say, supporting us over there, helps us make more over here. This is one of those things. We spent over an hour, Martin and I talking, but still, it's like just scratching the surface. How can you cover his career? But we do get to, in addition to, of course, talking about the podcast, some of the greatest hits of Martin Sheen, including Badlands and Apocalypse Now and the West Wing. And I wanted to talk to him about Wall Street working with Charlie on that, even a little bit of Spider-Man talk, The Departed.

So I think you get your money's worth in this. And like I said, one of those that's a real privilege to spend some quality time with someone that's made a big, you know, big impact in the world, in the artistic world, and just as a, you know, an activist. So without any further ado, here's my conversation with the one and only, Martin Sheen, everybody. I am so pleased, pleased this punch to have the one and only, the legend that is Mr. Martin Sheen on my podcast to promote the Martin Sheen podcast, their symmetry for you. Martin, thank you so much for the time today. Thank you, Josh. I'm delighted. As you know, I've had the privilege.

I feel like I know like half the family, two-thirds of the family. I've gotten to know a lot of you in recent months. Emilio and I had a great chat a few months back. And what I just want to say about that is, A, it's not lost to me like what a privilege it is. I grew up with your films in Emilio and Charlie's, but also to see the family is so strong. And there's so much love and connection between all of you.

And that's a testament to what you and Janet have done. So I don't know, just kudos all around, I guess. Well, I guess we're projecting a pretty good image. You are. You are. So first, before we get to the podcast, I'm curious, when you're out in the world, you get Martin, but I would imagine sometimes you get Ramon or Mr. President's. Do you get Mr. President or Ramon more in your daily life?

I get them an equal portion, I guess, yeah. Mr. President, particularly since 47 Second Coming, has been pretty frequent. You know, a lot of people say, like Mr. Clinton used to say whenever I'd see him, you're still my president, Martin. Well, there is a kind of a burden there too, because as you well know, and we can get to this a little bit later on, but like your image is so fused with some of the roles you've played, in particular, Jed Bartlett, that, like, people, I'm sure, project upon you, you know, this, this larger-than-life mystique, this, I don't know, does that ever feel

like a burden that, like, you have to almost live up to people's ideal of who you are? Oh, no, no, no. It's pure fantasy. I mean, we, we worked in a sort of parallel universe to the real White House when we began in 1999. and the show ran through 2006. So we started in a Democratic administration, but the majority of our years on the air with the Republican, with the second George Bush. So I was often asked if Bartlett were a Republican,

would I have done it? And without hesitation, I said as long as Aaron Sorkin wrote it, of course I would. Yeah. Yeah. And he would have ridden the hell out of it, I'm sure. Yeah. And then on the Ramon side, I know you've talked about this a lot, but I'm just curious. I mean, like, you've been very frank and you correct me if I'm wrong, that there's a bit of regret that, like, you didn't get to live your professional life with that name, but it was a different time, obviously, when you were coming up. Did you, I sure you've reconciled that long ago, but like, I'm curious, like, I don't know, where you're at with that name change. And did you're

father ever come to terms with that or was it an issue for him that you had changed your name professionally it did um it did bother him he didn't express it as such but i remember he came to new york um and spent a couple of days with us and came to see my show i was on broadway at the time in a show called the subject was roses and i saw him looking at the marquee and uh he did not recognize the name but he never said anything but i knew from his you know, the look on his face and so forth. You know, officially, I've never changed my name. I'm still from on Gerard Antonio Estevez.

And I love my name. I just arrived at a time and a place where it was hard enough to get a job as an actor when I started in 1959 in New York City to have a surname, a Hispanic surname. at that time was not an advantage because, unfortunately, there was great prejudice in the city against Puerto Ricans, the Puerto Rican community. Of course, they were American citizens by birth. They still are. But they were the newest immigrants, so-called, at the time, and they were taking the blame for all of the problems with the city at that time. So I identified with the community, I was very proud to be a part of them, but it was in name only.

So I kept my name, but I realized I had to kind of step outside and be kind of more anonymous in terms of nationality at that time. Yeah, I regret it deeply, and I remember when, you know, my children started to come into the profession, and they were deciding whether or not to use Estevez or to change. it. And Emilio was on the verge of changing the last name. We're just using, you know, Emilio Sheen. And then he saw it in print. This just doesn't fit, you know. Right. And then I, frankly, I begged him to keep it. I said, you know, it's one of my biggest regrets is that I didn't keep my name.

And I said, you know, we're going into a new millennium. And Hispanic people in our country, particularly in the state of California, are going to be, you know, almost in the majority. And so I said, I think that the reverse is happening for you that I had to deal with, you know. The Hispanic population is well ingrained in the community and speaks with its own voice very proudly.

distinctly. And you're going to be a part of that. And I hope in some way it had an influence on him, but he made his own decision. Right. And I was very proud of him. I still am. Hey, it's Ryan Broderick, host of Panic World, a weekly podcast from Currier about how the internet warps our minds, our culture, and eventually reality. We cover everything from deep dives into the J.K. Rowling's downward spiral to how a cartoon mouse inspired an erotic cult in Russia. Panic world keeps you up to date on the movements that break out of the internet and find their way into the real world. And so find us wherever you get your podcast. And you can listen to audio versions of these episodes.

Do you guys hear that? Oh, that's our podcast, Ruin, brought to you by me, your host, intrepid horror movie freak Hallie Keeper and me your resident scaredy cat Alison Libby join us each week as Hallie forces me to listen to the twisted plot of yet another bone-chilling horror movie from classics like The Exorcist and The Thing to the latest releases to the most disgusting films on streaming we ruin them all every Tuesday wherever you get your podcast so come join us and until then we beg you please keep it spooky The new podcast is fantastic.

I want to give it some love. I got a chance to sneak a peek at it. By the time people will be able to see or watch or listen to this, at least one or two episodes will have been out. And it's a very, it's a very, it is purely Martin Sheen. It reflects so much of you and your passions in different ways. I've heard you talk before. I don't know if this was an influence.

There's definitely a bit of the Garrison Keeler storytelling behind. this was that something on your mind when you kind of decided what what a martin sheen podcast would even be very much so garrison keeler is one of my heroes i think he's one of the best storytellers in american history and uh i had the privilege of doing i guess eight or nine episodes of uh prairie home companion so i got to know him personally in fact uh uh i did one show in his home base in Minnesota and he was in the oh gosh the famous author's names of the theater is his home base that's Scott Fitzgerald the Fitzgerald theater and I was in my dressing room the night that we

were going to go on the air and I was singing my favorite hymn and there was a knock on the door and I said come in and it was Garrison he said what are you singing I said that's my favorite him. And what's it called? I said, how can I keep from singing? Well, you're going to sing that on the air tonight. Oh my God, no. Yes, you will. I'll get with, what's his name, and we'll make sure you're in the right key, but you're on for tonight. What can I do? You know, Garrison Keeler was asking me to sing on Prairie Home Companion. I'd never sung publicly anywhere. And so, okay, I worked with the orchestra leader, and he said I had the right key, and so I did it. And it was the first time I ever sung in public, and it was on that show.

So, yeah. Can we expect any singing on this podcast or strictly poetry, storytelling? Oh, they have a section that they are our engineer and Renee, our producer. And sometimes they just get to talking, and I forget that he's recording everything. And so now it's called the open mic. And so you have me talking about a lot of things. But the majority, 99% of the show is scripted. The poems, of course.

But all the stories I've written myself, they're all personal. They're all biographical. And some of the stories I've never told before. But I was raised on the radio. I love the radio because you had to use your imagination. All those characters we were hearing in the series, you know, during school nights, we were allowed to stay up late to hear our favorite programs. But on the weekends, you know, we got free time, particularly Sunday night with Jack Benny

and Charlie and Allie and all those wonderful shows. And so that was ingrained in me because it's like reading a book. It's a personal experience. And so when I decided to do the podcast, I made that a clear aspect of it that I would tell a story. But the audience would know that there was a beginning, a middle, in the end, and that it was personal. In some cases, it's deeply personal. I believe that's the only way to do it because if something's not personal, it's impersonal. And who cares?

So at least I cared, and I hope that our audience will. But Garrison Keeler, yeah, one of my, I would say, Garrison had a, without knowing, I mean, I've never spoken to him about it. He doesn't even know about the podcast. I hope he knows I'm bragging about him now. But, yeah, he had a profound effect on me. I was a long-time fan of a Prairie Home Companion. I remember one time on the set of the West Wing,

I was doing an impersonation of him. I was between tapes. And Allison Janney said, God forgive me, Allison, she knows. She said, that's pretty good, impersonation of Garrison. And I said, how would you know? She said, I've been doing the show for two years. She would do the show. She'd fly out to many after.

She was in New York at that time and do the show and go back home. And it was like, oh, my God. And when I learned then, I peppered her with questions about. And the one thing I wanted to know was, did they have a script ahead of time for Lake Wobie gone? She said, you're kidding. Nobody knew ever what he was going to do. And they would just give him a couple of rattles on the piano. when it got time to wrap it up.

They didn't even knew where he was going. He didn't either. And it was so personal. And yet you saw how absolutely brilliant it was and we hung on every word. And he was that kind of storyteller. But he had the mind of a poet and he had an imagination that just inspired me.

And yes, when I started doing the podcast, I thought, boy, if I can get people to listen, to our program, the way I listened to Prairie Home Companion and Garrison Keeler, why I thought that would have been a great achievement. So we'll see. No, I mean, you're speaking my language. I like my parents of your generation, and I will always remember my dad, and this probably made an impact because radio was my first love and podcasting arguably is radio essentially, was like listening on car trips to his tapes of like the shadow and green hornet and all of that. And there's something that can't be

replaced from just like, yes, your imagination, imagination meeting the voice of someone iconic that can really tell a tale. And you certainly can. I'm curious, I mean, look, we're at a very fraught, fragile, crazy time in the world. And I think your voice is a steadying, it's something that we really is a comfort for a lot of us. And I think that's part of this, too. Is part of the mission statement of this, I don't know, is it tied to where we're at in the world right now and I don't know, providing comfort for others? Well, I don't know how it's going to land,

if it's going to land, I can't tell. We're going to know, I guess, soon enough. But, yeah, you know, Renee was trying to get me to identify myself in the podcast. You know, we did some ads and she wrote some copy for me to record, which I did, and I would make adjustments here and there. But she said that I really should make it clear that I'm going to bring that same person that I can never separate myself from, that would have an opinion about things and hopefully would have a some. measure of encouragement or at least acknowledgement that we are in very, very scary times. And if I could just be some kind of echo that says, you know, this is only fleeting,

we have to be aware of one another. We are here to walk each other home. Don't leave anybody out. Don't accept the opposition's term for enemy. We do not accept enemies. The greatest enemy I have is me. The only person I've ever been able to influence is myself. I don't have any illusions about that.

No matter what issue I was involved in or whenever I went to a demonstration, I never anticipated I'd make any difference whether the protest was against nuclear weapons. or against a specific war or an issue homelessness or, you know, housing, whatever the issues are. They're all intertwined. You can't separate one issue from it. It's all about social justice. And people's rights and freedoms and people's, how should I say, responsibility. We have a responsibility.

We didn't get 250 years. freedom come next year by accident. A lot of people sacrificed a lot, including their lives over the last two and a half centuries. And so it's worth fighting for. And we're getting to a place now where clearly it's not hard to see where these people are going. The militarization on the pretext of, you know, this city is burning up and is consumed by crime. crime and so forth. It's a lot of crap and we know that and we have to state that and we have to be present to the people that are in those cities like right now, it's Portland and Chicago and right here in L.A., of course, and many more to come. And it's clear to any of us as old as I am

where this guy is headed. You know, we've read how Hitler won. A very interesting book by Corey Taylor, incidentally, that I did the preface for. And yeah, these guys, man, they must have read that book because they got it down. And the way they're starting with the, you know, setting us up. And the military is a big part of that. So we're going to get used to military presence in our streets on an everyday occurrence. And, you know, it's like when you have to move the cow indoors in a harsh winter, You got to get used to his presence in your house, or otherwise you don't have a cow.

And so that's the image. But, you know, by next year's election, there are going to be troops on the ground, and they're going to have a very strong presence at the ballot box. And we'll never know, you know, some of the outcomes. So, yeah, there's a lot at stake. It's called fascism. And there's no other word that describes it in the short. as possible, uh, uh, from here to there, straight line. It's fascism. It's authoritarianism. Uh, it's,

it's, uh, it's something that we, you know, we, we've, we've seen it before. And, uh, we've seen it, you know, in many other foreign countries. First time we've seen it get this far in this country with this bunch. But we've got to call it what it is. Yeah. Well, I mean, I think, I think that it is, as you say, it's the gall of doing it in plain sight. It's like there's nothing subtle about what has been happening the last bunch of years and it is about vigilance and about calling it out and and and not accepting the you know these sacrifices of our liberties it's it's calling it out every single step of the way or else we're going to lose everything exactly and we have to continually be reminded that our rights are not given by the gracious hand

of any state, but they must be protected therein. And that's one of our favorite, one of the favorite, our favorite, uh, patriots from the Revolution of War, Thomas Payne, you know. So, um, this is, this is a film and TV podcast. This is a podcast that celebrates actors and filmmakers. So you're going to have to indulge me, sir. We're going to do a little bit of greatest hits of your amazing career. I have to ask you some questions because, uh, when do I get nearly an hour with

Martin Sheen. It doesn't happen very often, but if you'll indulge me a little bit. So the beginnings of your acting career, from what I gather, it's a lot of theater work in the 60s, it's a lot of TV guest spots. It's here in my hometown in New York. You're here. And you also overlap a bit, as I understand it, with another great Mr. Al Pacino. Is that fair to say you kind of came up together? I know he always talks about Charles Lawton as his mentor. Was he also a part of your life as well? Very much so. Yeah, in fact, we devote a whole chapter of our podcast to Charlie Lawton's poetry. Yeah. And Al figures in that. Because Al had his poems published just kind of privately. And I, you know, had a copy of that that Charlie gave me because he wrote a poem called Emilio, which is one of my favorite poems. And I recited as well in the podcast. But, yeah, Charlie had a profound effect, and his wife, Penny Allen, who was a brilliant actress.

They're both gone now, God rest him. But their daughter has been very helpful in us getting the rights to use his poetry. And, yeah, Alan and I came up together. Yeah, we were, we were, how shall I say, starving young artists? Yeah, we're about the same age and the same temperament. He's a New Yorker, of course. and I'm a Buckeye, you know, so we had different backgrounds, but we had the same kind of passion.

I remember in the day, you know, we were all, there was a kind of a clique. It was Charlie and Penny and Janet and I and Matt Clark and Johnny Darren and a few others. The crowd of actors and artists, all of us were kind of equally paired. no one had a nickel between us. We were all, we delivered furniture together. We delivered newspapers together.

We hung out together. We got drunk together. We were a very close group, like family. And I remember one time Janet had seen Al in a play that I had not seen. It's called Hello Out There. And she said, do you realize that he is going to be a major star? And we were all kind of looking. He said, and forgive me an hour we will know what I mean.

I mean it with the greatest love. We said, you mean little owl? Because that's what we put with little out, affectionately, you know. And she said, you bet. Oh, my God. What did she see that we didn't? We just saw this wonderful young man so full and vibrant. And he was very funny.

He had a great sense of humor and was like a stand-up comic. But I adored him I still do He's one of my heroes He tells a If you'll indulge me He tells a really lovely story In his memoir about you

About when he was struggling And you were doing all right In the theater And he says that you kind of got him A gig as I guess an understudy Or a background player In one of your plays And he only learned later

That you were paying him Out of your own pocket Simply to help Al out When he was not doing as well as you Is that Sorry he found out about that I don't remember that, but I shouldn't have let him know that. No, he did understudy me.

And he was going through a very difficult period. He was homeless. He was literally sleeping in a friend's bathtub, literally. And I was off the streets by then. And I was doing a play. And I ran into him one day. And Al had this great energy. He was always upbeat.

You rarely ever. In fact, the only time, you would ever see Al in any other dimension was when he was acting. If he was acting and he was depressed, you know, or he was angry or joyful, whatever it was. His spirit was so full. But off stage, he was very dear and sweet and very funny and endearing. And you could go anywhere with him at any time. You know, one of the best times I ever had with him,

was we worked together as ushers in the cinema one and two up on upper third avenue, I believe it was. And we had, in those days, you had to wear a tuxedo and you carried a flashlight. And when you would deliver people to their seats, you know, what number is that, sir? Follow me, please. Here we go, you know, and be quiet, please. And that sort of thing. We did that for, God, I can't remember.

It was, I don't know, several years. I was living in Staten Island at the time. Remember, I used to come in, and we would meet down in the wardroom and get ready and with all these stories. And during our time there, one of the big hits was playing. And it was the only theater in New York that had Tom Jones. And so a lot of celebrities were coming in. And so we got to march him down the aisle, you know, Albert Finney came in one day.

And we pretended that we didn't know who he was, you know. Oh, can we help you, sir? Yes, write this. And other celebrities, I remember Walter Winchell came in one night. And I was given to take him to his seat, you know. So it was just a very wonderful time. And we didn't think about housing or food or haircuts or mortars. You were in it for the love of the game.

these days. Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, it was always, if you weren't suffering, you weren't doing it right, you know? Right. Right. And so, you know, and then I came, you know, many years later, one of my favorite phrases is from, well, two characters, really. Dostoevsky once said this most mysterious quote, I, my greatest fear is that I would not be worthy of my suffering. And that starts you to go. go inside a little bit. And then a century later, Victor Frankel said it after he survived Auschwitz for three, three and a half years. And he said that we had to learn to be worthy of our suffering. And that's how they survived at Auschwitz because they realized that they had

to create community that you couldn't do it on your own. You had to, you know, and I don't know if you've read his book. It's one of my favorite books. And it had a professional. effect on me. It's called Man's Search for Meaning. And there were like three editions of it. And he added to it as he got older. He died. He was close to 100 years old. It wasn't that long ago. He passed away. But that book had a profound effect on me. And he talked about how you do things and you don't tell anybody. You do them because you cannot not do them and be who you are or who you're meant to be. You're part of something bigger. And he talked about at Auschwitz-Nock. They always knew when somebody was fading away.

And often they would curl up in the bunk, you know, and the lads would come along, now, now come along. And they'd pull his legs and his arms and they'd stand him up and they'd lead him out, you know. In the work detail, they were in the brick buildings, you know, the form, the place. Auschwitz was two prisons, actually. It was the one prison where the workers lived and we lived, you know, And then there was this second one, Burkinau, which was, you know, a mile or so away. And that's where the ovens were. But these people were kept as long as they could stand up and work, they were worth something, you know.

And that's where Frankel was. And that's where Elie Wisa was. And Frank was there for a while. That's amazing. Yeah. The profoundness of, yeah, what humans can rise to in these. kind of circumstances and taking care of each other. It goes back to what you were saying about what we're all, what we all have to do, we just look out for each other. Yeah, we're here,

we're here to walk each other home. If you're looking for, you know, a fundamental basic reason for living, start with that. Yeah, it's a good one. We are here to walk each other home. Yeah. family can enjoy. Patrick Picklebottom Everyday Mysteries. Step into the whimsical world of Patrick Picklebottom, a precocious 11-year-old with a love for reading and an uncanny ability to solve mysteries. Inspired by the beloved children's book of the same name, this podcast vividly brings Patrick's tales of deduction and everyday adventures to life as he unravels baffling enigmas and solves clever cases. Patrick Picklebottom Everyday Mysteries is perfect for kids.

and is just as entertaining for grownups who love a good mystery. The whole family can listen now wherever you get your podcasts. This podcast is dedicated to my younger self because she really needed it. She couldn't keep a man or a job. Welcome to Brogwell Therapy. I'm your host, Stephanie Macon. I'm your co-host, Rose McAlees. Every week we dive into dating, sex, and relationships. We are not professionals, but we bring professionals.

professionals on the pod to give us some advice. Listen to Brokow Therapy wherever you love to listen to podcasts. Therapy is too expensive, but this podcast isn't. The first film of yours I want to bring up is, of course, Terrence Malick's badlands. Which, I mean, he wasn't Terrence Malick back then. People might forget, this was his first feature, as I understand it. Did you, I mean, in retrospect, you know what a singular talent he was at the time on set. Was it obvious like this is as much a poet as a filmmaker?

Oh, yeah. You know, you used the phrase too because my friend Matt Clark called him a screen poet when he saw Badlands. And that's the best description I've ever heard of Terence Malik's talent. Yeah, he is a screen poet. And he sees through. And people, you know, I remember when we were doing badlands, it was a very limited budget, and we had the summer of 1972 in the Hunter, Colorado, and as we were going on, the crew began to diminish because, you know, it was kind of base salary, and it was going on for a while, and a lot of the crew didn't understand what he was doing, because it was nothing, you know, that you've seen before. and you just had to have faith. I knew what he was up to.

I adored him. I knew that, you know, I would, I start, if you want to know how I came to, into his realm, it's kind of a funny story. Do you have time for the? Please, I'm here all day. All right. I got a, I got an invitation.

One day I got a call to go to this hotel on Franklin Avenue in Hollywood. to audition for a habadashry, for a pair of trousers, to model a pair of trousers. And it would be a still photography. I was much younger and thinner at that time. And so I came to this hotel, and I modeled the trousers for these people. And they said, thank you very much. And I left the hotel. And as I got out on the sidewalk, I was walking down, you know, just the street.

and a lady at a window from the hotel on the first floor is pounding on the window, saying, you know, telling me to come back in. It was Diane Dyrfner. She was a casting director for Terrence Malik. I didn't know who Terrence Malik was. I'd heard of Diane Diffner, so I knew she had a great reputation for being a casting director. So she called me back in and she said, look, I'm casting this film and the director is out of town. And I've mentioned you to him, but he says you're too old.

and you're just not right for the part, but I think you are, and I'd like to do a little audition here on tape. She had a little camera, you know, like we used to have in the old days, little black and white video camera. And would you do that? Now I show it to him when he gets back.

I said, sure, why not? So she gave me a couple of sides, you know, a couple of scenes. I went out on the street, and I walked up and down as I'm reading him, I thought, this looks, this seemed very familiar. And I was right. I came back in and I said, Would this in any, is this related to Charlie Starkweather?

Right. The killer out in the breath. Well, she says it is, but he's not doing the real story. But yeah, it's sort of, you could say that it's kind of based on that story. Oh, I said, I remember that very well. And so I did this little audition with just, you know, she's behind the camera and I'm reading the lines. But it's just like we're doing here. It's just this.

And you can't move the camera or yourself. You've got to stay there because you're only lit for that place. And I forgot all about it. And which later, I got a call from Terrence Malick. Oh, he says, could you come in and I'd like to meet with you? And I said, okay, fine. He was living up in Hollywood Hills at the time. And he had a huge dog named Obibilink.

And he's the dog that appears in the film that gets shot. Oh, no. That's the dog. He didn't get shot. No, no. Of course, of course. But I was terrified of him. I'm terrified of all dogs that I don't know.

And so I was reluctant to come in the house when I saw the dog. I mean, he was standing up. He was still here. But he was lovely. For any rate, Terrance was very shy and very lovely man. And I was struck by him. I thought, well, I've never met a filmmaker like this before. I mean, he's really, you know, he's really different and really intelligent.

and sincere and very funny and disarming, you know. And a young guy is the first time I'd work with the director that was younger than me. I was 32 at the time. At any rate, I would come back every couple of weeks through the spring of that year in 1972, and I would do auditions and I met this little redhead girl from Texas. The script called for a little teenage girl from Texas. It was red-haired and she knew how to twirl a baton. and this was his basic was from Texas, red hair, new auditoryl of a baton,

and she happened to be a brilliant actress. And so she and I started doing scenes from the movie, the script, but I'd never read the full script yet. And finally, one day Terry called me, I was doing a show at Paramount, and he said, could you come by on your way home and pick up the script? and I said, okay, fine. So I was just okay, fine. No big deal.

I went up to the house. He gave me the script, and he said, I want you to do this part. I said, oh, okay, fine. And I didn't realize what he'd said or what I was being offered until the next morning, when I got up at about 4.35 in the morning,

and I was driving back to Paramount because I had some more work to do on this series, a guest spot on this series. And I remember, I was listening to Bob Dylan's record that had one of my favorites of his songs that no one knows, but Desolation Row. And the sun was coming up, and I was going along PCH. And I realized that I had just been offered

the best role of my life. And I didn't know if it would make any difference career-wise, but I knew it would make a tremendous difference to me because I'd never had the opportunity to show until then what I knew I was capable of. And I had a little small orange car, I don't know, I think it was a Mazda. And I pulled off the side of the road, and I remember I just broke down in tears and started weeping

with joy and relief that finally I was going to, to get a chance to do something that was relevant in my life and in cinema and it was Terrence Malick and I never had the slightest doubt uh working with him I adored him and and he was so funny and disarming I remember he would be directing a scene you know just normal oh Martin you know it's kind of way he talks there oh Martin you go over here and say you do this you do that and then he'd look at his hands and say oh yeah he had written notes on his hands he'd He didn't have any paper candy. He'd always write notes on his hands, on his arms everywhere.

And then he'd give you the notes. So, well, now, I want you to do this. And maybe you could do that. And Martin, you know, okay, now, dude, just throw that away. And he was saying, you know, it's just. No one like it. Amazing. We became great friends.

And I'm sorry, I'm such a windbag now. But that was a, that was one of the most important moments in my life was meeting that man, doing that film at that time. And we were very close friends. And then he had some trouble in his personal life. He went through a divorce. He moved overseas. He was living in Paris.

I didn't know it at the time. And I was going here and there. And we got back together. I had a break from Apocalypse. And he actually was in a scene in Apocalypse that was cut very early on. And so I was doing the film, and he was having trouble making Days of Heaven. Right.

It was another brilliant film. And he wanted a certain actor, couldn't get him, and he had to, you know, he had to be satisfied with another actor who turned out to be just brilliant. All of him. Richard Gear, yeah, yeah, sure. Not your gear. And so his big concern was would he be able to begin the film and include the fire? Because you can only burn up a certain amount of acreage. And so he had to get permission for that and had to be controlled.

And so he was in a place called Moose Jaw in Canada. And so he was getting ready to do that. He was off to that, and I was off to the Philippines, and I didn't see him again for a couple of years. I was in Paris in 1981 doing a film, and I just returned from India, and I was going through a very kind of tumultuous time, and I knew that I was approaching a very, you know, important level. I was kind of a do or die. I was on the verge of something.

I wasn't quite sure what, but I knew I had to make a decision. And I'm walking down the street. I was staying in a little hotel on the West Bank. Is that right? No, not in Paris. I can't remember what it. But at any rate, it's that we're all

you know where all the best pastries are in the old church. Okay. And I'm walking on the fru, Jacob, and I see this guy coming towards me, and he's looking at me, and he's saying, is that you, Martin? And I'm saying, is that you, Terry?

Yeah, and we reacquainted, and I spent practically every waking hour when I wasn't on the set with Terry. He taught me Paris on foot on the underground, and the city became very important to me as he did. And he led me, he became, and I've said this, and it embarrasses him, but I'll have to say it again because it's true. He became a spiritual director for me.

And he knew that I was going through something that I couldn't quite articulate, but I knew that it had to do with my spirituality or my lack thereof. And so he nourished me, and he kept giving me book. to read and he took me to this place and that place and we would listen to music and and just walk the city and and then one day we were at the shakespeare and company bookstore by the sen very famous bookstore and he went there a lot and in one particular day he was going along and he pulls down a book he says here martin i think that this will speak to where you are now i said okay fine it was droshaeski's uh the brothers kora motsov and uh i read it it was a

a thousand pages and I couldn't put it down on the set at night when it took me a week or so to read it to finish it and it struck such a deep chord in me it brought to the surface what I needed to do and that was to rejoin my faith my my my childhood faith and the Catholicism and I wanted to come back but I didn't want to come back to piety or fear, anxiety of being condemned, I know. But I wanted to come back to the social justice of the church of Pope John the 23rd of Mother Teresa and Dan Berrigan and peace activism and social justice work. And so that's what I did. I came back in Paris in 1981, May 1st. And essentially define your philosophy the last 45 years of your life, safe this up, right? I didn't realize how much

I missed the community. As I say, we need community, you know, it's the only way you can really function that we begin to know ourselves as in community. Can't do much on your own, you know. But in community, you can find yourself and become your true self. And yeah, that's what I tried to do.

And so it meant the world to me, and I got Terry to thank for leading me back to through that door and accepting that beautiful grace because it is a great form of grace. And I cherish it. I can't think of perhaps a more different experience than the Terry Malick Badlands experience than Apocalypse Now, which is maybe the most storied production of any film. I mean, there are obviously hearts of darkness was made, books have been written.

We've heard a lot of stories about the making of it. We know what you went through, the heart attack and true breakdown. I mean, what's your relationship to seeing some of that footage? I mean, like, the footage of you, that iconic scene in the beginning of the film, the mirror, breaking the glass, I mean, you're going through it. You are breaking the mirror. You're, we're seeing a man break down. I'm seeing you at your almost fall apart. What's it like for you to look back at that and actually see that?

It's not very confident. I remember, gosh, I remember George Hickenlooper. He was the director of the documentary of filmmakers Apocalypse. And he asked me for an interview. All the lads were interviewed, but we had not seen the film yet, and we had not seen the documentary that he was making. He just told us he would appreciate us doing an interview and so forth. I didn't realize how powerful that documentary was.

But it told the true story. And that particular day was my 30, sixth birthday and I was wildly out of control with alcohol and going through a very deep emotional catharsis and I was out of control and I remember drinking all day and it was night when we got to that scene and the scene was no actual scene there wasn't any dialogue for that he'd rewritten the whole opening you know And so we were improvising a lot of that. And, you know, and so Francis really wanted to call it a rap.

And I said, well, let's keep going here. We might, something might happen. It sure is that. Something happens. Yeah. I was always embarrassed by it, of course. I never saw it until it was in the film. I couldn't, he wanted me to see it when the rushes came back from Rome a few weeks later.

And I said, no, no. I don't have any he said well it may be in the film I said well that's your choice I can't I couldn't bear to watch it no I never wanted to watch it I knew I kind of had a pretty good idea of what I'd done

you know I wasn't very proud of it it's crazy it's crazy to think you were just 36 then and like you I mean your life could have could have ended I mean like yeah I mean it truly you were on the brink and to see all the life that was to come after what a gift

I mean, yeah, just, I don't know. It's just mind-boggling. But I'll tell you this, when I saw it, George Hickenlover, God rest him, sent me a copy of that documentary before it was released, Hearts of Darkness. And he said, I want you to look at this and tell me if there's anything you want cut. And I'll be glad to consider it. I said, okay. So I watched it with a friend who did not know me then, only knew me now, and said, oh, my God, how are you going to live with this? And I said, that's who I was.

That's not who I am. And so I had to let it go. But I remember when the film premiered in the summer of 1979 at Cannes, that scene was not in the film. Oh, really? Oh. It was not in the film that he played. And he won the Palm Dior, at least he in another film were tied for the Palm Dior. But no, that film was not in it.

He put it back in when the film opened in the state. And I didn't know it. And I made sure that when the film opened, I wasn't available for publicity or anything. I was very, very intimidated by it, very shy about it. And so I kind of hit away. I got a job, and I made sure I was as far away as possible. I was on board the USS Nimitz doing a film called The Final Countdown.

And for all intents purposes, it was that for me. Oh, my gosh. So I was at sea for a little while. I was aboard that the aircraft carrier while it was in port at Norfolk for a couple of months. And then we went out to sea to do some filming and they brought all the planes on board. And that was an experience. So we were at sea for a couple of weeks. At any rate, while I was away, the film opened and I was just as happy not to be around.

But then a few weeks later, they asked me to do some publicity over in New York. York when I do it. And I said, yeah, okay. Remember, the film, when it opened, it did not get very good reviews. It got okay reviews, but there was such an anticipation. And people were sort of, oh, the ending this and that was that. But, you know, Vietnam veterans started seeing the film and saying, if you want to know what it was like, that's the closest film that's ever gotten it. And they really pumped up the film with their, you know, experiences. And so they're the ones that made it happen and I remember going to see the film in New York that was playing at that big theater where it opened had been there sold out for six or eight

weeks I don't remember but and I didn't want to see it alone so I called my friend John Crane a kid I grew up with who was my best man and um we were in high school together and uh yeah and and so he he took me to see it and I remember sitting in the middle of the middle of of the audience, nobody knew, had recognized me. Why should they? And, uh, and when that scene came on, I, I was so, I didn't expect it because I knew it was not in the film in Kahn, so I thought it won't be in the film now. And there it was. I thought, oh, Jesus, you know, and I sat through it. But the scene that got me that I really broke down watching was the attack on the village with Bobby DeValle

brilliant performance but that attack it still gets me you know that the ride of the Volckeries and coming in and it's so brilliantly filmed and enacted so real and devastating and yet it was played on some other level that you could only do in a movie yeah and Francis did it And it was one of the great, still is considered one of the great war movies, if you will.

Movies, period, I would say, yeah. I've had an equal number of young men and women. Tell me, some saying that that film inspired them to go into the military and an equal number that said that film kept me out. I can imagine. Totally. However you want to see it, you know. It's always been a treat also to see you.

collaborate with your children, whether being directed by Emilio or acting with Charlie, I mean, I think back, you, in Wall Street, you and Charlie, the stuff between you two and that, it feels like you're acting, but there's also another level. You're going through something. There's a bit of your own, correct me my wrong, I don't know what you guys were going through at the time. But there's, you got that, huh? Yeah, there's something there, and it speaks, it comes through the film. Yeah, you know, Charlie was, responsible for my for my doing the part he pitched me uh in no uncertain terms to uh oliver and i of course i said i'd be delighted and oliver uh was gracious enough to uh give me the part and i got to work

with charlie again um yeah that's a very special film yeah um he's terrific in it and it still holds up oh yeah it's still relevant and they're all absolutely brilliant and yeah and And the scenes with Charlie are personal. As I always say, if art is not personal, it's impersonal. And who cares, you know? So, yeah, I was very proud of that. And I loved playing any... A union leader, a...

Union hero. Yeah, I love that. Yeah, that got me. A couple more I want to hit. I know we're taking up a lot of your time, but these stories are amazing. So if you'll indulge me a couple more. We haven't even talked to West Wing, but is there, when you think of West Wing, it's that Aaron Sorkin, brilliant, brilliant dialogue. You have such meaty material there.

Is there a speech, a line that speaks to you to this day from West Wing? I know that's a lot of material, but is there one in particular? My very first line, I am the Lord thy God, thou shalt not have false gods before me. It was my entrance. They were in there arguing about what is the first. First Commandment and I made my entrance and with that line, I mean, when I was offered that show, it was for tops, maybe four or five episodes the first season. That was it. And one of the, one of the things I had to sign off on was that I would not play the president and anything else

while the West Wing was on the air. What are the chances? So I, you know, I read the pilot and I thought, oh my God, this is absolutely brilliant, and I couldn't wait to get to it. I only had one scene. Well, you know, the closing scene, maybe two scenes, but that was it. And I loved doing it, and I thought two things occurred to me. One, when they see the pilot, they're going to want to come back to me, I would hope, to say, who works in that office? Because everybody knows what that office is.

Who's in charge in that office? And that's what happened. So they came back to me and gave me an opportunity to be part of the whole cast. Because, you know, originally it was only about the staff. There was no first lady. There was no first family. The president would appear every maybe fourth or fifth episode, you know, throughout the series. And so I was delighted.

I had two requests. One was that he'd be Catholic. And the reason was because I wanted this president. to make all his decisions, both public and private, political and non-political, but all of his actions would fall in a moral frame of reference. And the closest thing I could get to that was a practicing Catholic. And they said, absolutely sure. And that he had to be a Democrat was a foregone conclusion.

However, I've said, you know, as I think I mentioned to you, if he had been a Republican, but Aaron Sorkin wrote him, I would have said, of course. And the other thing, I wanted the Notre Dame degree because since I was a boy, I love Notre Dame and so many of my heroes came out of Notre Dame and so I just wanted to celebrate that great institution and they said, of course. That's using your leverage, your stature for good,

to get those two requests in there. And that's all I asked for. When I started, though, isn't interesting because when I started, I would negotiate sometimes with Aaron on some of the dialogue. Can you imagine how stupid I was? And I would say, well, you know, Aaron here in this thing, I don't really care. I would never say it like that.

Aaron would say, well, you know, you should, you know, I see it that way. But if you don't, oh, okay, fine. And we would negotiate. And I would try to hune him down until I got it my way. Then I discovered, and soon enough, thank God, that when I did it my way, it was okay. It was Martin. When I did it Aaron's way, it was Bartlett. And that's what I came to.

And I stayed there. And I never argued with him again. Even though there were two incidents over the years. One, in the stage direction, he said, in the stage direction, he said, Bartlett pounds his head on the desk. I said, no, there's no way I could possibly do that. And yet when I was playing the scene, I couldn't wait to pound my head on the desk. And the second one was when I saw MS in the script,

I thought it was my initials. It was muscular dystrophy. Or what is the disease? Yeah, yeah. Multiple sclerosis, yes. And so I didn't see that coming. They were trying to tell me something. I wasn't sure.

I'm somewhat surprised that, I mean, there's been rumblings over the last few years. I mean, I'm sure Sorkin, they've tried to convince to write some kind of follow-up. On your end, has it come close? Have you heard something like, we're about to do something and it just didn't happen? No. No, Sarkin is like Dylan, you know. He never looked. looks back. Right. He's always

going forward. Fair enough. You know, that's his found, his work in the past, of course, is his brilliant foundation that allows him to launch and to go into new and more personal places. But, no.

If he, if he had thought about it, he never shared it with me or any of the lads that I know of. No. Because you can see reruns of it. They're relevant to. today, of course. They mean something different today to us, don't they?

Very much so. Yeah. Yeah. So Aaron is like this, he's one of those geniuses. You know, he's like Terrence Malick. You know, they come along so rare, and they make their presence known so profoundly. And we're not the same. They see through things.

They don't reflect much. They absorb and they see through. And they take us with them. they don't wait around when we were doing the first season of the West Wing I thought how is this show going to survive? We're so lucky to have

this magnificent material but how long can we possibly stay on the air and sell insurance and cars and you know products who knew

a democratic Catholic president very liberal guy with this administration wow you know, I think we could still be on the air if they, you know, if they wanted to go on. But it was Aaron Sorkin primarily. And there were some guys in that room

and specifically Lawrence O'Donnell, who brought all his experience from his work in the Senate. And so you know, when anything about the Senate or the House or anything in the White House it was coming from experience and we had so many people from the

administration for Bill Clinton's administration that started us off, you know, and so many stories that went back to Eisenhower that they got and found people to tell the stories and then they fused them into Bartlett, you know, and one of them was one of my favorites, which was when the kid from Brooklyn during the Depression

wrote a letter to President Roosevelt. And it didn't arrive at the White House until Jimmy Carter was president. And that's that story you see. that Charlie finds this letter and this is this young boy in Brooklyn. And so we bring the father into the Oval Office to meet him. It's a very moving scene. But that actually happened from the Roosevelt era to Jimmy Carter.

And so there were stories like that throughout the seven seasons that were based on real stories, real people, and couched in West Wing dialogue and episodes, you know. Can I bring up two more and then I'll let you go, sir? Yeah, for sure. There's two very different kind of things in different realms. But look, for comic book fans, your Uncle Ben. That's very meaningful.

That's not iconic. Did you realize how iconic Uncle Ben is to generations of young men and women? I didn't have a clue. I didn't have a clue. I don't see any of the big so-called tent films. I didn't have a clue. I'd never seen Spider-Man. I never saw Superman.

Forgive me. I saw Star Wars about six or eight years ago. I just, you know, they just, I like drama and, you know, actors, you know, doing play. The fantasy thing, never kind of made a dent in me, you know. But now, gosh, a couple of years ago, I was giving the commencement speech at a university here in Los Angeles. and the guy that introduced me very graciously talked about all the things you're talking about the West Wing and Badlands and Apocalypse Now, and it wasn't until he got to Spider-Man that the audience laughed and applauded there. Uncle Ben, they said, oh, my God, I thought,

what kind of universe are we living? It's the coin of the realm right now, and it means the lot of people. But, I mean, you know, that's, again, trading arms. On the series of these moral authority figures, it's perfect for you. And you don't get the iconic line, but it's still, you don't get the with great power comes great responsibility. But, you know, I said it. I said it. Yeah, I voiced it over after I've been.

Oh, you're right. And the voice over towards the end. Yeah. Oh, yeah. I got to voice it over. You didn't see me, but you heard me say it. I wanted to see you, I guess. You weren't paying attention.

I've lost my nerd cred. Martin, oh, no. But you're right. I remember, of course. And you're right. You're right. Josh It's okay

The last one I want to mention Martin Scorsese departed one of the most shocking deaths I've ever seen in a film I mean that's a gut punch that characters the way he shoots it just it's but what a treat to go up

against Leo Marty I was disappointed that that kind of cut me out of a possible part two well they didn't make it for anybody so no worries there but I mean that must be I mean, does that live up to the hype?

I mean, Marty's a contemporary. I would think your paths crossed over the years. No, I met him years ago, but I never, I hope that all the directors that I've worked with, including Francis and Terrence Malick, will appreciate me when I say this. If I had a choice to work with another director that I've worked with before, without question,

it would be Marty Scorsese. I adored him. And the chief reason, was that I never worked with an act with a director that loved actors I mean adored them like Marty Scorsese on the set it was just so clear you know although he was working

you know in that film particularly talking about that departed some of the biggest young stars in the world and they adored him and it was a mutual admiration society and they were all they were all so kind and generous and giving. And the set was so fun,

despite the, you know, the horrible actions that were being done and the violence. But, you know, it's the first time I worked with Jack Nicholson, and he was so generous and sweet to all the players. And that was the thing about the, it was an acting film. Do you know what I mean?

The whole film depended on performances. And so you had these young guys, all these young buffaloes with these big careers were doing some of their best work. And then you had one of the great cinematic stars in the world for 50 years, Jack Nicholson. And he threw us all together and he made this extraordinary film. And, but working, another thing about Martin was that he was so easy to trap in a joke, you know. I remember one time I was standing behind him when the scene was going on with some of the lads I wasn't involved in. And he said, okay, cut. And, you know, and he comes, he walks up to the French.

Oh, no, that was very good. You, that was very good. And I said, hey, why don't you tell him what you said back? You said they were all stunk. It was the worst thing. No, no, no, no, I didn't say that, don't be it. And everyone is laughing because you can, that's the way he was so vulnerable. You're so sweet.

You could catch him. He would believe you. But, yeah, that was a once in a lifetime experience. And he let me put Notre Dame in the film and make the sign of the cross as often as I could. And I endured him. And just for the record, it's the only film he's won the end. Academy Award for Best Directions. So I'm very proud to have been. And despite all of the great films he's done with all of the great actors, I was lucky enough to be part, a small part. He needed the

Martin Sheen put him over the edge. Are you listening, Marty? I like that you're still looking for work. You're still looking for jobs. You're good. Martin, you're greedy. You've done everything. No, I mean, look, I don't even know what to say. This is like, you know, We hit the greatest hits. You have over like 250 TV and film credits credits. So we could have done this for 10 hours. I appreciate the hour you spent with me today because your work, first I'll say this. Your work is very meaningful to me. But honestly, the way you have walked the walk and talk to talk in your life and how you carry yourself as somebody that stands up for the right causes, it's, it's, you know, you set the bar high for the rest of us. And I speak for many that say we admire you on so many levels. So for you. that you have my thanks and I'll remind folks again Martin Sheen podcast it's evergreen as we've been reminded you don't need to just tune in one week it's there for you always wherever you get your podcasts um gosh thank you so much and thank you for your support of our podcast and for you know being a part of this whole journey because you are a large part of it as you know and

thanks to your um interview with amelia we we were introduced to you. And we're eternally grateful. And the only thing that's surprising about this interview is that I didn't realize how young you were. Honest to God, I thought with your experience and with your knowledge, he has to be an old guy. And I had no idea. No one told me you was as young as you are. It's all the filters. It's a, don't worry. I'm an old man. Oh, I know about that. Look at this light went asunder here, right in the middle of one of my great story. Why I ought to. Thank you, sir. Hopefully we'll meet in person one of these days. I appreciate it. I would like that. Thank you so much. I'll look forward to it.

This has been a pleasure. Same here. And so ends another edition of happy, sad, confused. Remember to review, rate, and subscribe to this show on iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm a big podcast person. I'm Daisy Ridley, and I definitely wasn't pressured to do this by Josh. Hey, Michael. Hey, Tom. You want to tell him? Or you want me to tell him?

No, no, no. I got this. People out there. People lean in. Get close. Get close. Listen, here's the deal. We have big news.

We got monumental news. We got snack. Tacular news. Yeah, after a brief hiatus, my good friend, Michael Ian Black, and I are coming back. My good friend, Tom Kavanaugh and I are coming back to do what we do best. What we were put on this earth to do. To pick a snack.

To eat a snack. And to rate a snack. Nemptically. Emotionally. Spiritually. Mates is back. Mike and Tom eat snacks. Is back.

A podcast for anyone with a mouth. With a mouth. Available wherever you get your podcasts.