Happy Sad Confused - Matt Bomer

Episode Date: July 6, 2015

The amazing Mr. Matt Bomer of Magic Mike XXL joins Josh to talk about returning to American Horror Story, The Magnificent Seven, working with Lady Gaga soon, and how he was actually cast as Superman a decade ago. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

D.C. high volume, Batman. The Dark Knight's definitive DC comic stories adapted directly for audio for the very first time. Fear, I have to make them afraid. He's got a motorcycle. Get after him or have you shot. What do you mean blow up the building? From this moment on,

none of you are safe. New episodes every Wednesday, wherever you get your podcasts. Good afternoon. Good evening. Good morning. Welcome to Happy Sad Confused. I am Josh Horowitz, and this is my podcast. How you doing? Thanks for stopping by. Thanks for checking it out. If you're new to our little podcast here, well, you're in for a treat. I feel like that came out sarcastic. No, I actually mean you're you're actually in for a treat. I actually am proud of this show. This is where I talk to actors and filmmakers about acting and filmmaking and movies and pop culture and stupid shit crap things because I like to talk about stupid things. Talking about stupid things this week and important things is Mr. Matt Bomer, who is fantastic.

Matt is starring in Magic Mike double X-L. I spoke to him the other day. He came into MTV's offices in New York, had a chance to sit down for a long while with Matt to talk about his amazing career, especially the last few years. You might know Matt from his very successful show, White Collar, which he was the star of for several years.

You might know him from American Horror Story. He's coming back to that next season. We talk about that. We talk about him working with Lady Gaga soon. We talk about the normal heart, which was just a beautiful performance. in a really meaningful film that won him a Golden Globe and talk about a lot of other sort of amazing stories from his career.

Did you know that Matt Boomer was actually cast as Superman over a decade ago? He was literally going to be Superman. He wore the costume. He was going to be Superman. We talk about that and a great many things. Matt was a delight. Another one in the category of people I've talked to briefly over the years but never had a chance to really talk to at length.

So this was a treat. And Magic Mike XXL, as I did. tape this actually, the movie is just opening this intro. So I'm assuming it made just a ton of cash over the weekend by the time you listen to this. Because as much as I like Magic Mike, this one really, I think, delivers what the audience wants out of a crazy stripper movie, which Annie Tatum and Matt Boomer and Joe Mangonello and the whole gang. Because it's really fun and irreverent and you really sense the camaraderie of these guys and it's it's a

road trip movie first one definitely different kind of speeds Steven Soderberg a little darker this one's just more of a romp so not that it needs my help but go check out Magic Mike double XL get to see Matt Boomer do his thing including singing he's a great singer

and I'm sure we're going to see him doing that more and more in future years and films he is a bright future ahead so you'll hear that conversation in just a moment just to give you sense of where I'm at. I just got back from, I'm in New York, back in very hot New York. I was in hotter Atlanta just the other day. I spent 24 hours in Atlanta visiting the set of the new Divergent movie, Allegiant, Part 1, which was a blast. I visited the set of the first Divergent

movie, also known as Divergent a couple years back. So I really feel like I've kind of been through this process with this cast. I've I've interviewed Shalene a ton. I've interviewed Miles Taylor a lot. Miles has been on the podcast. Miles is like the first question out of his mouth whenever I see him. How's the podcast doing? I think Miles, if you're listening, you just want to know the numbers. Is that what you? You just want to know how many people who are listening? I don't know. It's not important how many. It's important who's listening. And that's you, fair listener. Talk to Ansel Elgort, who was fantastic. And some of the new guys, including Elder Statesman himself, Jeff Daniels, which was a treat.

So that was my day in Atlanta. That was yesterday. A few days prior, I was in L.A. talking to the Antman cast. You can check out some of my interviews with Paul Rudd and Evangeline Lilly and Director Peyton Reed and Michael Douglas there on MTV.com. And, yeah, it's been a busy time. But as I tape this Fourth of July weekend is getting underway.

I'm taking a little time off. Hopefully you took some time off. Hopefully you enjoy your weekend. And hopefully you're starting the week out right. by listening to Happy Say I Confused and listening to this new episode with Mr. Matt Bomer. Take it away, Matt, and me.

Start talking now. You've been prepared for your Happy Side Confused? Do you know about this? I hope that I don't, and I hope that I just, like, it's all super spontaneous. It's going to be spontaneous and wacky. I can roll. I studied with the groundlings.

I can roll with the dog. Yeah. You did? Hold on. I want to get into that. Okay. We're off and running. Did you feel it?

Yeah. Whoa. That wave just hit me. That wave of amazingness, awesomeness. Yeah. Congratulations on this crazy press store. We were talking Magic Mike XXL. Yes.

You can't have fun on the store. Something's wrong with you if you cannot have fun on the Magic Mike press store. Are you also juggling work right now? Because Magnificent Seven is shooting. Yes. I am in the middle of working on that. And then literally the second we finished the press tour, I go into American Horror Story.

Crazy. Yeah. Well, when the going's good, you might as well. Hey, lots to be thankful for, man. So how's Magnificent Seven going? Have you started shooting on that? Yes, it's great. I'm very curious.

I mean, obviously we've got the most beloved man on the planet, Chris Pratt. Yes, and Denzel Washington, who several people like as well. He's all right, I guess. He's heard of him. But, no, the cast is amazing. There's this great new girl, Haley Bennett, who I work pretty much exclusively with. And the world they've created down in Louisiana where they're filming is just insane. Have you ever done a Western before?

I'd never done a Western, and that's really one of the reasons why I wanted to do with that and working with Antoine Fuqua, who I think is just a brilliant director. But they've really reconstructed these pioneer towns, I mean, from scratch. You can walk into any storefront in the town, and it's all fleshed out. So it was a really immersive experience. The original film, I guess the original is a Seventh Samurai. Yeah, that's what I always think of as the original. Yeah, well, I'm not that hardcore.

I think of the Magnificent Seven, because that was actually one of the first westerns I remember. growing up with Unloving. Sure. And then you go back. Then you realize that there's this guy here, Kerr, Sal, that did some decent stuff too. Yeah.

Yeah. Were you a big film guy growing up? Were you, like, steeped in film knowledge? When did it kind of come into it? Honestly, we weren't allowed a ton of secular entertainment in my house growing up. So I really got a crash course in college. And we had this AV room

that had just every laser disc I'm dating myself you could ever hope for and you could just check it out of, library so that's how I found Kurosawa and a lot of great foreign filmmakers and a lot of the great American filmmakers who I had an experience you shouldn't worry about dating yourself because when you say Laserdisc I think of I had something I had some things I know yes but I had my dad chose to buy something called the Select Division which was the it was the beta Macs just sounds like a hit right it was the Betamax the VHS it

was the rival for the laser disc yeah and laser this wasn't even successful so we had like the second right laser disc I always felt weird when I like some Somebody had the beta player. I know. A little pity. It's just, it's not pity. It's just like I feel bad that you don't have the same selection. But it sounds like you didn't have.

So, wait, this is interesting. Growing up, your family just was not into, did you watch TV at all? Did you have a TV? We were allowed to watch some TV and we were allowed to watch some movies, but it was sort of restricted. Got it. But then every now and again, like, you know, my brother would sneak in and watch Jaws or something like that.

And that was around religious reasons? Correct. Yeah. Correct. It's just the most curt, concise, correct. That's all you get, Josh. No, but did that loosen up?

Or was that just, you had to escape the nest to kind of get exposed to that stuff? I think I knew, I mean, my parents were always really supportive of me becoming an artist. And when I graduated high school or when I was getting close, my senior year, I basically put whatever the 1996 version of a PowerPoint presentation was together for them.

I was like, here are the schools I'm going to audition for. Then I'll get an agent like this. I had a whole game plan laid out for them because no one had ever, and my family had ever left the state to go to college and all that. So I think once they realized that I actually had a game plan, they really got behind it and supported me. And did that come from, I mean, if I'm talking to actors, often, sometimes it comes from just an early validation.

You do, you know, you do the school play and a teacher says, you're actually pretty good at this, or is it just sort of finding a community at school? Like, where did it, where did this kind of fire come from that I'm going to put together? my little PowerPoint to sell this idea. Well, I was a really wildly imaginative kid and I would just spend time outside and with my imagination and films taught me to access that in a different way and kind of gave voice to all the crazy characters in my head. And then I started taking improv classes in middle school and I had a teacher who was very

supportive and it was really just a way for me to escape. It was very therapeutic and a way for me to live vicariously through other voices and characters and people and um that just continued and when did you uh okay so new york obviously was it was a was a key component in kind of the maturation of mat homer's career but but we're uh true that so true so true it's so rare when the guest is more immature than i am so i appreciate that i'm here for you okay i'm here for you so what was the game plan was the game plan to get to to New York? Yeah, always. The game plan was to get to New York and do theater. And that's kind of all I ever thought that I was going to do with my life. I didn't have some. I didn't have

like a one, a three and a five year plan when I got out of college. It was like, I'll probably get a play and, you know, wait tables. And that's certainly how my career started out. So, and then one thing just kind of led to another. So when you look back on the early days of New York, was there a rude awakening? Was there, um, did you just use the singular? I mean, like, every day was a rude awakening in New York. Yeah. I think if I'd gone to New York from Spring, Texas, straight from high school, I went to Carnegie Mellon and Pittsburgh in between, had I gone straight there,

I think, I don't know that I would have survived because I was just too wide-eyed and bushy-tailed. I was just like, you know, I would have been like when someone was accosting me in the subway, like, hey, I'm going to pray about this? Like, or something like, I don't know. I just, I needed something intermediary, so. And you knew, well, a couple of people that, in reading up on you that you interacted with way back when Lee Pace was somebody, did you know in high school? Yeah, we did plays together in high school. And Lynn Collins was a year ahead of me in high school.

And then in college, it was a whole other group of people who were all working all over town. Including Joe Mangonello, right? Joe Maganello, I've known since we were 18, yeah. So what was your first impression? What was the 18-year-old Joe Mangano like? Was he similar to the giant, ginormous man that I know to? Yes and no. I, you know, Joe obviously makes a very strong impression. He is a large, handsome man and always has been. And he was always sort of a lone wolf, but we bonded over the work and really had a really nice friendship over the years. And then I've really seen him just grow so substantially, especially in the past couple years. I've just seen him really come into his own as a man and as an artist. And I think the work he does in this movie is so great and such, uh,

a product of all the work he's done in himself. Yeah, I mean, a couple standout moments in this one. He's done some crazy sketches with me here. Has he? I'm going to enlist you for one of these days. We're going to do something, okay? How much time do we have? But yeah, he's got such, and he's got, he knows how to have fun with his physicality,

how to make fun himself. He knows who he is. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, just enchanting is the same way. I think it's a really, I think it's a really kind of key component to being successful in this business as knowing who you are and what you bring to the table. So jumping around a bit, to Magic Mike. Okay, so this is kind of the most unlikely franchise, I feel like, in the history of film.

Yeah, it's insane. Of course, yeah. Especially, like, well, obviously the subject matter. Obviously, the fact that, I mean, even the first film is, frankly, a lot different than this one in terms of tone. Yes. When you were considering signing on for the first one, was there debate within Team Boomer? Was there like, dude, this is a horrible idea? Or was there, it's Steven Soderberg?

It's just take, when Stephen says he wants you to do it. Well, to contextualize everything, at that time, it was like a $5, $7 million movie. It was a tiny little independent film. And obviously, I really wanted to work with Steven Soderberg. I wanted to work with Channing, Matthew, all these guys. And I thought, oh, this would be kind of like the girlfriend experience. It'll be this, like, small little niche film. Like, we'll all dig in really deep.

And we started the process that way. And then shortly after we finished, they're like, oh, There's a bidding war going on. It's going to be a big studio summer release. And there was, of course, a part of me was like, if I'd known that many people were going to see me naked, I don't know. But thankfully, these guys are so great. And what they brought to the table with the sequel,

I obviously did not want to rehash the first one. Nobody, you know, I feel like the first one's a really strong film that can stand on its own. And when I saw that it had become this whole, like, stripper odyssey, this, like, fantastic voyage with this, these outlandish characters. It was kind of in the vein of Priscilla Queen of the Desert and the last detail movies like that that I really enjoyed. And they'd also just completely flipped the script on the tone. So I thought, oh, wow, there's definitely a story here. And it's a different story. So I want to do it. It's funny when you mentioned, I hadn't even occurred to me,

but like this, to go highbrow for a second, you mentioned like the Odyssey, you're right. Like, there are these pit stops along the way. It's a road movie. And you encounter these different people. I mean, a lot of people are talking about, for instance, the sequence with Andy McDowell for you of course which is amazing a you get to have to we run across a pride of cougars not literal kind of literal is that what you call of pride right um but she's very derogatory by the way they're just sexy ladies that's all there is to it let's face it any mcdall is like they don't get more beautiful than that this is true um but yeah we there's a lot of different characters we encounter and you know it's one of those circumstances where these guys

were obviously stuck in a very stale place and they're all at crossroads because they're getting a little long in the tooth for the stripper game so so they're having to figure out what the next chapter is and they had to kind of get out of their comfort zone in order to do that and I think that's what Mike's role is really all about in this is helping these guys like get get unstuck and and be their most authentic selves I know you've been a lot of doing a lot of talking about the singing and the film was that something that was always in the script no I mean yes and no I don't the whole reason that came about is is all due to Channing and Joe, really, being generous people.

In the first film, like I said, we had a very limited budget, and we would entertain the extras in the strip club between takes. And basically, Channing would just shove a microphone in your face. We'd be like, do something. And I was like, I don't know. And Joe was like, sing. I said, what do I sing? And Channing goes, I don't know, Jodicy.

And I only know one Jodice song, so I sang that. And he remembered. And he was like, you're going to sing in the next movie. And, you know, to hear him tell it, he was like, going into this movie, I knew it was going to be a road trip movie that we're going to get to the convention and that you were going to sing. I was like, wow, okay. But, yeah, it was, I mean, it was an incredible gift that Chaining gave me and also a really terrifying one because it's really scary. All the singing is live in the movie. It's not a pre-recorded thing.

You went like, you went full on. I went full land. I was like, if I'm going to sing in strip, I'm going to sing it straight. Oh, my God. Yeah, so it was, they encouraged that as well because, trust me, I was trying to, like, put my tail between my legs and back out. I was like, can't we just kind of lipstick? They're like, no, you're singing it live song.

So it was balls to the wall. And it's scary to have to just take your clothes off in front of 800, 900 people, but to also be singing live at the same time. Do you feel like this whole experience of these last two films gives you kind of like a sell? confidence kind of thing. We're like, okay, if I can expose myself literally in that way, I can kind of take on, maybe not anything, but I can take on a lot more things that I thought I could. No. No. And not wish I could say it that way. You know, I mean, it's very much of a time and a place. Like, there's so much prep. I think people think, oh, it's just a much movie best strippers. There's so much physical preparation and dance rehearsal that goes into these numbers.

And really, you have to just, I'm terrified when I do it. It's not like I'm stripping in between films like practice like and you know you can rehearse in a room like this so much but then all of a sudden you're out there naked in front of strangers and so the great thing is we had 800 or 900 or the best actors I've ever worked with in this crowd scene I mean they brought so much energy to the table every take they completely bolstered us and actually made me feel like I could do it right so after I got over my own initial got out of my own way basically after the first couple takes and I was able to kind of make it a conversation and kind of an exchange. Sure. It became really fun. But no, I mean, I think of any strength that I've gathered is from

getting to work with people like Channing and Joe who are just who celebrate people's authenticity and approach life from such a non-judgmental open way. And that's the best thing I've taken from this. Definitely not like any sense of self-confidence in my body. I'm rife with insecurities. Really? When you will get kids. I wouldn't even look in the mirror when we're doing this film. I was going to say, okay, so when you happen to catch a glimpse of yourself naked at home, you're not, you're, you're, I would guess you're a little happier than I am walking. Stop it. No, I, uh, what are you thinking?

I'll be honest with you. I truly did avoid the mirror the entirety of this film, because let's face it, I am the character actor in this movie. Right. Everybody else is like a foot taller than me and a hundred pounds heavier, which was so refreshing. But I was also like, okay, I'm never going to look like Joe Meginello's, so I'm just going to work as hard as I can, put everything I can into it, and just try to bring whatever that results into the table. But I knew that if I saw anything in the mirror, I was going to pick it apart and it was all going to come crashing down. The jokes about, I think it came in the first film about you looking like a Ken doll. Was that the first time in your life that you had experienced jokes about that?

Do you remember the first time when someone had compared you to a kendole and how did you react to that? Pull up the couch, doctor. How does that make you feel, man? You know, it makes me feel really plastic. No, I think that was the first time I'd been referred to as a kendoa that directly. Maybe somebody did it behind my back. I don't know. The worst things would be called behind your back.

There are worse things to be called, but then I just, you know, Ken ain't got nothing going on down there. And I do. I do. Right. So there's something kind of aniseptic about it than I'm not really crazy about it. But I get it. That was his act.

That was his bread and butter, baby, Malibu Ken. That's how he sold himself. Everybody's got to get their act where they make that dollar. That's what it's about in the end, man. Got rent to pay. I've got rape classes to take. It's funny going back a little bit. You mentioned, yeah, I think one of the things that Channing is so astute about, you're talking about learning something from like Joe and Channing is like, so Channing took what arguably could be considered the thing you want to bury deepest in your life and exposed this all the world and has made millions off of it and has made great art out of it.

Yeah. There's a lesson there for all of us. Oh, it's been a huge lesson and a huge inspiration for me. And it's not something that he takes lightly. It's something that he lives. I mean, just the fact that we went and like did a gay pride parade float to. Yeah. I think is a huge testament to his character and him wanting to celebrate.

I mean, he doesn't have to do that. Right. It doesn't affect the marketing of the film. It doesn't affect who's going to go see the movie and who's not going to. Sure. He did it because he likes to celebrate all peoples. So jumping around a bit because I'm trying to keep you on your toes. Okay, we're back in New York.

You ready? Yeah, back in the early days. Yeah. So was the soap work? Was it theater? What was the first time that you felt like, okay, this is turning into an actual career? well i had gotten i was lucky enough to get a broadway show shortly after i arrived in new york but it was taking a long time to get the house so in the meantime i was working as a bellman

tell me if this story gets too long i was going to watch me i was working as a bellman and then nine eleven happened so i everyone got laid off from the hotel because no one was coming to new york anymore so as you know it was a very hairy time here and um this casting director on a soap opera ahead said, you know, if you ever want to audition for the show, let me know. And I was like, of course, like, theater school snob. I was like, I shall never. I'll do regional theater

first. I really hope you said it like that. To his face. He was looking around like, what is this dude talking like? He was like, yeah, you should be on stage actually because that's never going to go over in a close up. No, so then he I called him with my tail between my legs. I was like, do you have anything? Because I didn't know

how I was going to pay my rent the next month. And he said, well, we have this character. You're not right for it, but you can come in and test for it. And, you know, by the grace of God, I got the role. And that's when I first started being able to support myself acting. But I was there for a very short time. And then some film things started cropping up that sort of ushered me into the next phase of my career. I'm not an aficionado of soap opera, so forgive me.

But you played, for my research, you played Ben Reed number three. Was that part of the name? Third times of charm, son. Was there Ben Reed number four? Did you retire Ben Reed? Ben Reed number three. That's not Ben Reed the third. No, I think there were previous.

Maybe that too. Who knows? My favorite thing, well, first of all, it's because he started out as a child on the show. And I became, and then he was like a tween. Yeah, right. I would have loved him on my knees the whole time. A clippered action. That would have been amazing.

He's so bold. By the way, if you'll have you on a soap opera, as a child, I'm there. Arc and harder story next season, it could happen. That could happen. But my favorite thing about it was I had, I told the writers because I knew I was going to be there for a long time. I was like, I want the craziest storyline you've ever given anybody on this show. And they obliged. Like, and you would not believe what I did in a year.

What was the craziest thing you do? I was a trust fund baby who tried to bet his friends, his fraternity brothers, so he could deflower the town virgin. Then he falls in love with her, of course, but she finds out it's a bet, so she dumps him. Then he finds a new girlfriend, and he loses his trust fund, but he doesn't want to tell her. So he turns to the only thing anybody can do, which is male prostitution. Had several older female clients, I would meet these women who were in their 40s and 50s at 6 in the morning. I was 22 years old, and by 9, I'd be in a cock sock with them in the bed, making out for like 25 minutes. then what happened in the second episode right so then I go she finds out I'm a

prostitute dumps me I go crazy kill four people kidnap her to a remote cabin in the woods confessed to her that I was molested by my female schoolteacher as a child which was very topical at the time she committed suicide by injecting myself with a syringe full of insulin in front of her her dad and her new boyfriend but classically hung on one day more in the hospital to say sorry for everything I'd done which leads us to the normal Hart. But anyway, the writers came out to me at the end. They were like, just, you know, if you ever want to come back.

There's nothing left for me to do. We've got it and figured out. I was like, how? You should do the whole James Franco thing. Go back, man. Do it. It's coming gone. Yes, normal heart. Actually, before that, I think you were on the only show ever to star both Jason Priestley and Zach Alphinacus. Congratulations.

Who were you closer to? My dream team. On true calling. Zatchback. Are you kidding? What do you mean? Zatch? Yeah. Does he respond to Zatch? That's what I called him at the time. Did he respond? He just run away in the other direction. He always runs away, especially if I try to high five him. He does not like high fives. But yeah, he was my, he was my go-to man on that job. I still see him from time to time. He's the best. He has a beautiful baby now. Awesome. Wade. He looks amazing. Yeah. And Quinn is an amazing woman. I love them.

When you look back, White Collar, obviously, is a moment that shifts the career, I would think. in a huge way. Yeah, for sure. Was that something that, like, were you actively going for? I mean, you had done some series. So, like, was that, like, the mindset, like, films eventually great,

but, like, if I get a series of my own, that's going to really get me to another level, get me in some other list. Yeah, I mean, to me, honestly, I had, at the time, I think I'd tested for, like, six things before white collar. And I was like, oh, I'd even thought about, like, applying to grad school at that time.

Because I wanted to be a part of stories that affected people, reached people in different ways, you know, whether it was just escapism or whether it's something like normal heart that had social implications and could maybe inform people about things they might not know or change people's minds, things like that. And when I read the script, I thought, oh, wow, like, I can do this. I know I can do this role. I'm sure there's a lot of people who can, but I know I can put my stamp on this character. And I'm just so lucky because I know they wanted somebody who was in their 40s and British. And I was 29 at the time, I think,

when I tested for it. And I was just really lucky that Jeff Easton, the creator really stayed in my court and fought for me. And it changed my life. And somewhere in that time, I mean, this is probably more fascinating for me and maybe more upsetting for you to recall, but, like, Superman was something that was, like, a real thing. That's what took me off the soap opera when I was 23 or something. So, like, correct me from wrong. So Brett Ratner was at one time attached and you were used I had I had screen tested with Amy Adams in the tights I think at that session it was um uh Paul Walker myself and um I can't remember who the third person some other big star and uh you know thankfully Brett chose me for the project and then it

all fell apart how quickly like how long did you have I mean talking about it just like It all happened, I mean, the casting process, Brendan Frazier was the other person. It was a very lengthy process to get the role. I think it was over the course of like three months because I went in on a cattle call. Sure. And then it sort of evolved from there. And yeah, it was maybe three months. And then it was like a month of, okay, looks like this is going to happen.

That's going to be insane. And then it's kind of slowly fell apart. So, but it's okay. I have zero regrets about that. I feel like I've gotten to do such a rich array of roles and so many different things. And I haven't been too locked into one. I mean, that's a very iconic role to portray. You can suddenly be that character in everyone's minds forever, you know.

What was the incarnation of that script totally different than that Brian ended up doing Brian Singer? Completely different. It was written by J.J. Abrams. It focused on him much more when he was younger and when he was in college. And it was very lighthearted in many ways. I've seen your work, and many have seen your work in the normal heart, which you won the Golden Globe and a lot of acclaim for. I mean, it's obviously Larry Kramer's play, which I had a fortune of seeing on stage.

Oh, wow. When you look back, that's got to be something you take as much pride in as anything you've done in your career. Oh, yeah. I mean, it's not even about personal pride. It's just, I'm so, I would have been so happy doing anything in that film. And it's a story that's been close to my heart for so long. I mean, I read that play in high school and used to perform pieces from that and destiny of me when I was a kid in rural Texas.

I'm sure people were like, what is wrong with this dude? But it was always important to me and something about it always really resonated with me because it educated me about so much it was going on in the world that no one in Spring, Texas was telling me about. Right. And so it was just a real honor to get to be a part of it. And I think, you know, if you're lucky, you get a job like that once or twice in your career that every day is just like a real gift. But by that time, and you correct me if I'm wrong, you'd officially, for whatever it's worth, come out. You'd spoken publicly about your sexuality. Was that something that, like, would you have, would the algorithm of doing normal heart have been different five years prior when it wasn't as...

You know, you'd probably have to ask Ryan Murphy about it because I know it was important for him to have openly gay actors in the film. So, who knows, what that algorithm is? I would have been there, come rain or come shine. But it just worked out the way it worked out. So speaking of Ryan, you've had a chance, and you're about to start,

You're about to start on American Horror Story. That's correct. As soon as I finish his press tour. Well, I'll make this as short as possible. No. I want to see what you're going to do. I'm scared. So Ryan has said, I think he tweeted this the other day, something about a kind of a love triangle,

brilliant scene. What do you know of your relationship between Lady Gaga and Finn? Nothing. Nothing since then? I've read the first few. I actually don't know which character Finn is playing. I love Finn. I think he's a brilliant actor, and we've worked together a couple times.

now. And I love, I'm such a huge fan of Lady Gaga. I think both as an artist and as a performance artist, she's incredible. And I know she's going to bring some amazing things to the table. It's a great role for her. Have you met her yet? I haven't. No, I've seen her in passing at some PR events and things, but I wanted to be special the first time. So have you are you going to call her Gaga or are you going to call her? Stephanie, what are you going to call her? I'm going to extend my hand and say, hi, I'm Matt. And she's going to say, she's going to to say, oh, nice to meet you, I'm blank. And that's what I'll refer to her as the rest of the time we work together.

But no, you know, you want it to be substantial. We have to do some pretty intense things together. So I wanted to make sure that, you know, we got to sit and chat and have a, I was just like, hey, yeah, see you when we're doing that thing. Let me now get into this crazy costume and scream for three hours. Whatever the hell you're going to do is going to be extreme, I would think. So I'll let you know. I'll let you know how it goes whenever we have our first meeting. You are also, I think you shot this already.

I'm very curious about Shane Black's new film. Nice guys, yes. I mean, Shane Black, obviously, one of the best writers out there. I'm a huge fan of Shane Black. I mean, he writes action in such a palpable, resonant way. It really does just jump off the page at you. And reading that script, it was the first time and in a long time that I laughed that much reading a script by myself. I mean, I could have been, you know, sent to an asylum.

I was, like, laughing hysterically by myself in a room. And the character was, you know, my character is pretty serious in it. But Ryan and Russell, Ryan Gosling and Russell Crow, their work in the film is just amazing. And you really do get to see a new side of them. That's just hilarious. They're really, they lived up to all the dream team hype that I had hoped for. Have you acquired Ryan Gosling's email or phone? Because I feel like everyone listening to this and watching this probably would wrestle you to the,

round for it. If I had, I would never tell. But yeah, if anyone hasn't seen, like kiss kiss, kiss bang, bang, I think of a shame. Kiss, kiss, bang. I mean, Gay Perry is like one of my favorite characters. That's Val, right? Yeah. Oh, so good.

Val Kilmer's character. I can't get more Val Kilmer in our lives. I know, man. What's up with that? His son is in this movie, and I have a scene with him. Oh, really? So that was, that's as close as I've gotten to work with Val. He was great.

I mean, it sounds like, you know, we haven't even talked about probably what's like, takes up 80% of your life, which is being a dad. Yeah, 90. Yeah. But is, I mean, career-wise, this is probably, you know, I don't want to jinx it. This is like when someone's put on the Sports Illustrated cover in the next week they blow out their knee. But like, you're getting to do a lot of cool things and work with cool filmmakers. Is this kind of where you had envisioned yourself? Is this succeeding matching expectations?

or is it just in a different kind of realm of what you could have even imagined five or ten years ago? I mean, it's definitely a different realm than what I had imagined for sure. For me, the story is so important. I don't think of myself as a singular entity or I just want to bring to the table my part in telling a director's story. So for me, it's always about reading the script and do I feel like it's something new? Is it scary to me? Are these people I want to work with? And then if it's a director I'm a fan of, like Shane or, you know, Antoine Fuqua, someone like that, I'm on board for whatever you need me for.

I just, I want to keep getting the chance to tell stories. Lastly, let me get a sense of your pop culture, like, radar right now. Like, do you watch a lot of TV? Do you go see a lot of films? What have you been obsessing about lately? Broad City. I love. I love those girls so much.

To me, HBO's Girls is great. I love that show, too. but that to me is what it's really like to be girls in Brooklyn. Not that I know what it's like to be a girl in Brooklyn, but the girls I know who live in Brooklyn, like that's kind of their experience of that age. So I love that show. I love workaholics.

I really liked Empire. I know everybody compares it to those old school soaps, but to me it's much more Shakespearean. It's like Richard III and Henry IV and even the Lion in winter. The source material is really interesting to me. Yeah. Those are the TV shows, I would say. And film-wise, I don't know how old your kids are.

I mean, are you stuck watching a lot of kids movies? Are you able to see kind of the stuff? My oldest son is 10 now. So you are. So we're starting to venture into, I'm being a terrible parent, taking him to PG-13 movies. Got to learn sometime. He'd been asking me to go to Jurassic World for a solid six months before it came out.

So I was like, yeah, we're going to have that experience together. And he turned to me at the end of it and goes, that is the best movie. I have ever seen. And I was like, oh, we're going to watch Lawrence of Arabia. Later on, you may change your mind. I don't know. It's neck and not, to be fair.

But he had the best time. And so, yeah, I try to, every now and again, I'll sneak in something a little bit more grown up so that he feels cool. What's the, I mean, I've talked to, I don't have kids myself, but living vicariously through my brother who lives vicariously through his kids,

for instance, like, every parent has, like, those films they want to, like, live again through their kids. Yeah. Are we doing all that now? So what were they? Goonies? Yeah.

Harry and the Henderson's we got dead on last week. So sad at the end. So, so sad. Oh, but then turn, then the turn. Don't forget the film. It was amazing. Don't stop it there. Watching my kids not know about the turn.

It was amazing. Yeah, we get down with a lot of stuff now. I have a whole, I have like a seriously like a list of a hundred movies on my phone. And I'm just like, it's an Apple TV night. What are we going to get down on tonight? Right. And have they been appreciating everything? Has there been any moments where they didn't get it?

And you had to be like, oh, well, chalk it up. It's dated. It's not working. Yeah. They mostly love and get everything, which is great. We watch this one called Explorers, I think it was called. Do you remember with Ethan Hawke? It's the first Ethan Hall movie.

Yeah. When he's like, yeah, River Phoenix. And they build a spaceship that goes into outer space. They were lost. They were like, okay, the spaceship part's cool, but why are they in space now? And what are these big nasty green aliens who are like making all these Ziparne? Geist references that are like 40 years too old for me. Why is that I sound like John Lovitz?

Yeah. It didn't. I was like, you know, sorry. I had to do like, I love that movie and I stand by it, but I did have to do a blanket apology. But they're eternal enthusiasts. Like, no, no, it wasn't that bad. That's not supportive.

In a few years, they won't be like that. Exactly. No, I know the money time is now. I have like two years left of being cool and then it's over. Then they realized what magic. Mike's all about and then they yeah there's all irreconcilable differences

are going to dissolve in this relationship forever I'm never going to hear the end of it it's been really fun to catch up with you we are going to do something stupid at some point please I mean if this wasn't enough I am happy to do I will go there with you this is level one stupid as a matter of fact

I'm throwing down a challenge right now like can it be stupid enough was that like a stupid smoke bomb you just threw out yes it was a stupid stink It's a deal. It's good to see you, Mac. You too, man. Thank you so much for everything. Always good to see you.

I was good to see it, buddy. Cool. Thanks, guys. You make it so easy. Oh, stop it. American history is full of infamous tales that continue to captivate audiences, decades or even hundreds of years after they happened. On the infamous America podcast, you'll hear the true stories of the Salem Witch Trials and the escape attempts from Alcatraz, of bank robbers like John Dillinger and Pretty Boy Floyd, of killers like Lizzie Borden and Charles Starkweather,

of mysteries like the Black Dahlia and D.B. Cooper, and of events that inspired movies like Goodfellas, Killers of a Flower Moon, Zodiac, Eight Men Out, and many more. I'm Chris Wimmer. Join me as we crisscrossed the country from the Miami Drug Wars and Dixie Mafia in the South, to mobsters in Chicago and New York, to arsonists, kidnappers, and killers in California, to unsolved mysteries in the heartland and in remote corners of Alaska. Every episode features narrative writing and cinematic music, and there are hundreds of episodes available to binge. Find Infamous America, wherever you get your podcasts.