Happy Sad Confused - Matt Smith

Episode Date: June 18, 2026

Matt Smith has returned! We're speaking about his role of course in HOUSE OF THE DRAGON but also to Happy Sad Confused. To use one Matt's favorite words, he's a legend and this conversation proves it again as he and Josh talk about his complicated anti-hero in HOTD, the early backlash against him as Doctor Who, working with Claire Foy in THE CROWN, his upcoming role in STAR WARS, and of course MORBIUS. SUPPORT THE SHOW BY SUPPORTING OUR SPONSORS! Rula -- Rula patients typically pay $15 per session when using insurance. Connect with quality therapists and mental health experts who specialize in you at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.rula.com/happy⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ #rulapod Quince -- Go to ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Quince.com/HAPPYSAD ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠for free shipping and 365-day returns. Limited Time Offer–Get Huel today with my exclusive offer of 15% OFF online with my code happy15 at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠http://huel.com/happy15.⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ New Customers Only. Thank you to Huel for partnering and supporting our show! UPCOMING EVENTS! 6/22 -- Millie Bobby Brown -- ⁠⁠⁠⁠Tickets here⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

What does it say about somebody when they say Damon Targaryen's their favorite character? They've got great f***in taste. He's the face. Come on, man. You know, Damon's the fucking coolest character. Doesn't give a fuck, man. Prepare your ears, humans. Happy, sad, confused begins now.

Hey, guys, it's Josh. Welcome to another edition of Happy, Say, Sad, Confused. Today on the show, Matt Smith. Always a Charmer, one of the most talented actors out there today, returning in House of the Dragon in a live taping at the 90 Second Street, Y. Another fun one. Hey, guys, thanks as always for checking out the podcast. Remember, if you haven't already, what are you doing with your eyes? You gotta subscribe, YouTube, Spotify, whatever podcast platform you're using.

You know what to do. Two episodes a week for about 12 years. There's no end in sight, not while I've got this trusty microphone in front of me. and guests willing to be charming and amazing, like Matt Smith. Before we get to the main event, Matt Smith, let me mention, as always, patreon.com slash happy, sad, confused. If you haven't checked it out, if you hear me just talking about it endlessly week after week and say, I'm going to skip past that, go right to the episode.

I get it. I'm the same way. But I'll say this, for the record, Patreon helps me make this show. It is a huge factor in what we're able to do, week in and week out. So check out our Patreon, patreon.com slash happy, say, confused. And it's not just about contributing. You get stuff for your money. You get early access.

You get bonus content. You get discount codes to live events. You get autographed merch, all sorts of fun stuff. You can ask questions to some of the actors that come on the show and filmmakers. Patreon.com slash happy, second views. And we do have another great live event coming up in just a few days, Millie Bobby Brown in New York City, June 24th. We're talking stranger things.

We're talking in Noah Holmes. We're talking to her entire career. She's never done the podcast. So this one's long overdue. Very excited for this. Get your tickets now. The information is in the show bio. You know what to do.

Okay. Matt Smith, you know, I say often, one of our favorites. He truly is one of our, one of my favorites, both as an actor and just a great personality. You know him from Dr. Hu and the Crown. and now in recent years as Damon Targaryen and House of the Dragon, another iconic role for this guy who always just exudes charisma, an unpredictable vibe often in his performances. He could be a leading man.

He can be a villain. And with Damon Targaryen, he's kind of a little bit of everything, isn't he? The new season's fantastic. I've seen the first two new episodes of House of the Dragon. It premieres on HBO, June 21st. So there's a little bit of a little bit of a sneak peek of the of the season to come, but no spoilers. I wouldn't worry about that. We cover a lot in this episode, including some of his beginnings, certainly getting Dr.

Hu at the very young age of 26, the reception he got, which wasn't all that positive at the very beginning, navigating his post-Dr. Who career, the fun bumps in the road, like Morvious and Terminator. And of course, we talk a little bit about Star Wars, which is around the corner. shot his role in Star Wars Starfighter opposite Ryan Gosling. So of course we had to talk about that. And he's just, he's also a cinephile and just loves kind of taking into pop culture. So this was a really, really, really, really fun live event at 92nd Street Y. I know you guys are going to dig it. Yeah, if you wasn't happy, say confused, you know Matt Smith's one of the real ones. So without any further ado, I take you to the live event, 902nd Street Y, me and me. And

Matt Smith. Enjoy. Hi, everybody. How's it going? Welcome to the 92nd Street Y. Thank you. Hi, guys. How's it going? My name's Josh Horowitz. I host a podcast called Happy Second Fuse. You're inside of it right now, whether you know it or not. Welcome to Happy Second Fused. Welcome to the 92nd Street Y. I know why you're here tonight.

To use one of the phrases that this guest uses a lot, we have a legend in the house tonight. I absolutely love and adore him. He's a Happy Second Fused All-Star. You know him, you love him from Doctor Who, from the Crown. And yes, and yes, as Damon Targary in House of the Dragon, we are catching him at a very great moment because the third season of House of the Dragon is about to debut. You'll all be watching, yes? Of course you will.

Please make him feel welcome. He's a veteran of the 92nd Streetwide. We're so thrilled to have him back. Give it up for the one and only, the legend. Matt Smith, everybody. Where he is. Good evening, New York. Hello, hello.

Thank you so much for coming out. Much appreciated. My man. Here we go. Here we go. I'm just going to do this. You're going to be more than that. For the next hour.

Are you more focused on House of the Dragon right now or on World Cup? Matt, be honest. The World Cup. I was watching the game today. And England play tomorrow, which is obviously of great importance in my life. I mean, I'm a huge, huge football fan. That was your first love. Let's be real, right?

Yeah, yeah, I probably is my first love in many ways. So, you know, I wish I could say I love them. Here's my way out of answering who my favorite companion is. And I always say, I love them all equally more than each other. But when it comes to football, I can't really, you know, I just love football so much. Right. So Timothy Shalmay just said the other day, he was happier about the Knicks winning than potentially winning an Oscar. Would you rather win an Oscar or be a World Cup?

England win the World Cup. England win the World Cup, man. Yeah, and also, I'm never going to win an Oscar. I mean, I think that Tim is in with a chance, but it's like, I think England, look, there's a long way to go. And there's a lot of teams that are better than us, which feels a bit like my acting career, essentially.

You have to, like, get rid of the competition. You have to wipe them out. Just kill Benedict and Eddie and Danny and everyone else, that only, you know. So I did, I did notice when I was listening back to our many conversations, yes, you use the word legend a lot about people that you love. Yeah. Who are legends in your estimation? People that you've worked with, like, who's, who's the, on the top of the mountain for you? It's probably a long list, but give me a few. No, yeah. Karen Gillen's a legend. Billy Piper's a legend. Emmett Darcy is a legend. Paddy Konseigne's a legend. Rees

is a legend. I've been really lucky. with legends, actually. Austin Bartler's a legend. Josh is a legend. That's what I was waiting for. And no, look, I've been, yeah, I feel so I've been, I've been really blessed with, I mean, generally speaking, actors are quite nice.

I mean, do you find that? Generally speaking. We can name names if you really want to go there. We'll save that for the end. Yeah, okay, very good. Yeah. So, yeah, but I do think, I think the word legend is banded around a lot, isn't it?

But yeah, I mean, I've been, I've definitely worked with some legends. So you mentioned a few that you're working with on House of the Dragon. You mentioned Emma, I would imagine, Patty, first season, Paddy, constantly amazing, Risa Ethan's amazing. Yeah. Have you found there's a common denominator in this cast? I mean, you all do, genuinely, I've done group things with you guys. You do all seem to actually get along.

I don't know if that's being in the bunker of an intense experience like this or what, but what have you found that's unique about this cast in particular? among other casts that you've worked with. Yeah, I think, I think this show is such a sort of, it's such a beast to make that there is a real sense. And weirdly, even though there is kind of division with the greens and the blacks and all that business, there is a real sense of it being a family.

And those, I mean, I look back with great fondness on those early seasons, on the first season, I say those early seasons, that early season in a way, when we were all in one room, you know, and everyone was together, and there was a king that we all kind of, of liked even if I did want to marry his daughter. It's a bit weird, isn't it?

But there was a sense of family and I think we've sort of cultivated that. And also, you know, I think there's a great respect among us because there's some, when you look at the younger guys in it like Tom and Ewan and Fabian, these are, you know, and there's this such great quality in that cast and props to the casting team because, you know, But, you know, it's a brilliant cast of actors, really. You say something that struck me, too, yeah. Because, like, at the outset, when you signed on, it was kind of like you were the big name,

Patty's a big name. And then there were people that, like, now in subsequent years, have become notable because of their work on the show. People like Fabian and Tom and Emma. That must be a joy for you as an actor, too, to see them. You saw they had the goods to begin with, but, like, I don't know if they're carrying themselves in a different way, but to see their career.

just rise in front of your eyes. It's very interesting. I mean, particularly, I work so closely with Emma, and they, you know, to watch them, it sounds really patronizing and I don't mean to be at all. It's meant as a compliment in this. But I remember like, and I hope they don't mind me sort of repeating this story,

but on our first camera test, I remember holding Emma's hand and they were, I could feel the sort of energy in them. And being in this costume and having this camera. and all this stuff. And now, I mean, Emma's just lives and breathes the technicality and the craft of filmmaking in a way that is just, honestly, I mean, they are truly, you know, there's, there's the actors that turn up and Emma turns up and is like, she's like Jordan. Do you know what I mean?

Sorry, she, they, they are like Jordan where it's just like, there's such consistency from take to take. And it's, um, it's amazing to watch. So when you, we talked before a little bit about how you came into the role, but to talk about it a little bit more, I'm curious. Like, look, you'd obviously, you'd done television, you'd done television, very successful television, genre work. Was there? Yeah. And I know you're not the kind of actor necessarily that, like, jumps into something immediately. Like, you labor over the decision a little bit.

True. Did you come close to passing on this, or was this an easy yes? Yeah, I mean, yeah. Well, I mean, there was nothing easy about it, to be honest. with you. And it came at quite a sort of difficult stage in my life. My father was ill. And there was, you know, there was, that, that, that had a great sort of governance, uh, on my stay of being, really. But, but, um, I, look, if I'm honest, I may as well be honest. There's no point. Not me. I, I, I did, um, and are, you know, for a number of reasons. Because I thought,

you know, and maybe still think, how on earth can you follow in the foot? of something that has been essentially a cultural phenomenon really in Game of Thrones and the way it was told and the success it had and the scale and the scope and also the way television was consumed then is slightly different and I just played a prince and you know I mean yeah and he was blonde as well did you you had you had shared a film with Amelia before you were in the Terminator film I don't know another classic on the other list I have 15. I'm going to break Morbius out soon as well, aren't we? There goes that Oscar. I think you know me well enough to know I have 20 minutes of questions on Morbius and Terminator a little bit later, but we'll get there. But my question is, I don't know how well you knew Amelia, but is that someone that you went

to when you were considering this? Yeah, I did. I had the, yeah, yeah, I mean, in a brief way, I have to say, I didn't know Amelia particularly well but I did I did sort of ask about the people involved and Amelia was was obviously very yeah and now it's so weird isn't it media is technically my sort of in you know theatrical terms great great great I don't know how many greats down the line does anyone know that how many great great great great granddaughters they are that Amelia is no tough one isn't you call yourself you call yourself fans unbelievable there's just people walking around

with their arms in the air Madhouse, isn't it? So what did she say to you? Did she give you kind of... No, yeah. I mean, she was very encouraging about her experience, and I think, I think, you know,

in many ways, I think for those guys, I remember being on, it sounds really stupid, but being on a panel at Comic-Con was the evening, not the evening standard, the Entertainment Weekly Newcomers panel,

and I was there with Kit, and he was making this, I was doing Doctor Who, And he was making this show called Game of Thrones. And I just remember the Game of Thrones guys had the really nice hotel. And at the BBC, we were given like a cup of tea and a biscuit and like made to run to work. Do you know what I mean? And, you know, those days are gone.

But I remember, you know, and then it became this huge thing. And I guess my point is, I think to them that experience was probably formative. and they have the same love and sort of a sense of wonder about it that I hold about Doctor Who in a way because I was 26 and that just sort of changed my life in such a profound way. You mentioned kind of early days with Emma. I mean it was an unusual first season

in the way they structured it and thank goodness it worked out but you're playing obviously two different actors playing Renera. Supergirl. Did you screen test with both especially given the relationship with both Millie and Emma like Were you the ones that they were both cast. Yeah, I mean, I didn't test it with anyone, actually, really. Yeah, I just tested on my own.

And then we were all just kind of pieced together. But it was, it was, I mean, I know I'm aware that some people weren't keen on that. But as an acting experience for me, that was amazing. These two amazing actors. And actually, it really lent to two sort of different energies, actually, you know. And the difference of sort of youth and age. I found it really, really, really interesting. So let's talk a little bit about season three.

I've seen the first two episodes that gets off to an amazing, fantastic star. You guys have probably heard that there's, I mean, to say an epic battle is the understatement of the year. But I think, I would imagine it's also refreshing for you. I mean, you talked a little bit about season two. I remember we talked, like you're kind of off on your own in a lot of that season. And this season, it seems like you're back into the mix a little bit more. Did you find it, I don't know, re-invigorating to kind of like have more with Emma and other characters as opposed to being on this kind of vision quest for Damon? I did. Yeah, there you go. It's about the right response, isn't it, I think.

I did. Look, I thought, you know, you don't want to get yourself to say too much. But yes, I feel like in the first season I really recognized who Damon was, in the second season, whilst it was the right idea, I think perhaps the sort of the notion of it, the experience, it could have been, I think dramatically you could have pushed him a bit further and explored it a bit more on some level, you know. So to be back in, back with the gang and back, you know, at war and back, you know, in what I believe to be a more sort of, sort of true personality was, was, yeah, was good. And honestly, just on a practical level, to be back with your friends. Of course. And not just a goat. Right. I'm like, why is there a goat?

I know. Yeah, but why is there a goat? Well, I don't know. You fucking bad, no, because there's a fucking goat walking around. What does it say about somebody when they say Damon Targaryen's their favorite character? They've got great fucking taste. Come on, man. You know, Damon's the fucking coolest character.

Doesn't give a fuck, man. Why do you, I mean, beyond just it being the Matt Smith magic, why do we forgive Damon some despicable choices, you think? I think it speaks to a broader question, like, and, you know, just to talk about me a bit more. I, yeah, and I can compare it. Like, I played Patrick Bateman in a musical. Right. And, you know, I sort of, there was something, the great challenge of,

it was going, well, if by the end you can go, I kind of feel sorry for him. What a wonderful challenge. And I think generally, if you look at a lot of characters I've played, there's a sort of, not feel sorry for him, but I mean, I don't know. I think in a way that's the sort of challenge. And Damon is, for all intents and purposes, he, you know, he's wrong a lot of the time, but he thinks with great faith that he's making the right choice. Now, that doesn't stand up, you know, a lot of bad people throughout the year.

You know what I mean? Thought they were justified in their choices. Yeah, well, you know. And it's, but there's, I think in honesty, I sort of view him for a slightly more romantic lens than most. Do you view his like motives as pure when it comes to like protecting, propping up. Yeah. Yeah. And there's a sense of real destiny that he truly believes.

And it's about an umbilical type of love that, is in his mind, you know. And now that's not to say that you can forgive his behavior, but it's just interesting because it's like, you find yourself literally defending these people, right? You know, because, and a lot of the stuff they do is indefensible, but it's your job in a way to sort of do that, totally,

because you're protecting them and you're fighting for them. And you're spending literally years in the mud with goats. Yeah. I'm thinking about them. I know. And also that's when they're at their best. You know, and that is my thing with Damon. I'm always trying to encourage the people I'm going,

let's push him, let's make him the worst version he can be. Right. Actually. It's interesting because when I talk to Emma about going into this season before you guys had shot this, they spoke about their character in the similar ways, like wanting to kind of like, there's so much goodwill towards Renier and now, but like how much can they push that goodwill with bad actions? I think it's like intrinsic to any actor.

You want to kind of test the audience and see how much. you can kind of test their limits. Yeah, and also, yeah, exactly. And that's why that's, I think you've just answered it. It's intrinsic to every action where you want to, and then push your own limits as well. Right. As a perform and think, you know, you want to, what's that line?

Jack Nicholson, have you ever dares with the devil and the pale moonlight in Batman? And it's basically, you know, it was that. I got that line in Morbius, by the way. and they fucking cut it out. I improvised that line. I was like, come on, let's nick that from Big Jack. And they cut the fucker out.

Can you believe it? That was the problem with the movie. That was it. I would have just changed the whole damn thing. Jesus Christ. More shirtless Matt Smith dancing. Yeah. Was that your idea too, that scene?

Yeah. Can we? Well, that was basically, we came back at like months. later and they were like, well, I don't know what I'm going to do with this? Why don't we whack your top off and get you to dance in the mirror? And I was like, cool. Okay, yeah, let's go. Amazing. We'll be right back with more HappySat Confused. When you're a mid-sized business, you need every competitive advantage you can get. Like an AI solution that works for you, not against you. SAP Grow is built with AI embedded at its core, working across every system. And it's ready to go from day one so you can hit the ground running.

Bring it with SAP Grow. AI Cloud ERP for any size business. The war is over and both sides lost. Kingdoms were reduced to cinders and armies scattered like bones in the dust. Now the survivors claw to what's left of a broken world, praying the darkness chooses someone else tonight. But in the shadow dark, the darkness always wins. This is old school adventuring

And it's most cruel Your torch ticks down in real time And when that flame dies Something else rises to finish the job This is a brutal rules light nightmare With a story that emerges organically Based on the decisions that the characters make This is what it felt like to play RPGs in the 80s

And man, it is so good to be back Join the Glass Cannon podcast as we plunge into the shadow dark Every Thursday night at 8 p.m. Eastern On YouTube.com slash the Glass Cannon with the podcast version dropping the next day. See what everybody's talking about and join us in the dark. I like being in the blood and the mud.

Do you? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think there's something, I don't know, there's something about it. I'm always like, more blood, more blood. Like my idea for this, the opening shot of episode one was I just like, I was covered in blood. And then the audience go, yes, we're back.

Yeah. That's who I know. You know what I mean? Well, it's like, I'm in a TV show, but I'm in the movies. I'm like, I'm doing the thing. It's like, you know what I mean? Like putting on the armor, putting in the blood, the wigs. It's like, this is what we all grew up thinking it was.

Exactly. Yeah, exactly. Again, to go back to Jack Nicholson, you just want to be white paint with a, get a blast on your thing. Walking in and like throwing paint on the wall. Yeah, exactly. I mean, the physicality obviously is important to Damon. I mean, do you get as much satisfaction out of, like, a successful, like, action sequence as, like, a meaty speech in House of the Dragon? Yeah.

Yes, I think you do. I think what's sort of interesting about it is one of the challenges in that stuff is sort of being, because I'm quite a physical person generally, and I'm quite a physical actor, I would say. And sometimes it's hard, I can't sound like I'm moaning here, but I'm always trying to get out of the arm in a way because then you can see the body. Do you know what I mean? Then you can feel the sort of person. But sometimes when you're in that, it's kind of hard to sort of tell a story with your body in the armor.

But I think there is great, you know, he's, yeah, there's a pleasure in doing that stuff well, absolutely. So what is your relationship with, like you've dealt with fandoms before over the years? Yeah. And like it must be unusual. I'm always fascinating when actors

are in something where you can't possibly know as much about Game of Thrones than many of the people that come up to you that have lived and breathed. Oh, I absolutely don't. Yeah. Is that an unusual place to be where people come up to you

and maybe reference things that you don't even know? No idea of, yeah. No, no, it's not, actually. Because, I mean, you know, I've done it with a lot of things I've been in. I mean, I'd never seen an episode, one single episode of Doctor Who before I got it. But then I watched them all,

and I sort of fell in love with Doctor Who. But the law of that is so great as well. And it was, I mean, I'd watch Game of Threat, but I haven't consumed all of the literature. And I think it's amazing people that have. I mean, my friend Scarlett, she's 21 now, and I've known her since she was a little girl. And she's, you know, there's a kind of writer friend of mine,

a great writer called Simon Stevens, and it's his daughter, and she's consumed everything. And I bring her to the set, and she's like, well, that's not right. And you shouldn't be doing that. And do you know what's happening next year? And I'm like, oh, really? But she's literally all of it, like, every novel. She's your tech advisor?

Pretty much, yeah. So we know there's this season, eight episodes of this season, and there's one more season. So that's kind of like luxury as an actor to kind of know the end point and the creators to kind of build towards this end. Yeah. And again, reading George Martin's work, it's out there. We know, ostensibly where what happens. Yes.

Like, have you talked to Ryan, the showrunner, the writers about sort of like how much it's going to line up with What George? I don't tell me nothing, man, because, I mean, what's interesting is, like, you know what's going to happen, but you don't know what strand they're going to choose. Right. Do you know what I mean? And they could, they could take a story any which way they want to, to be honest with you. And so, you know, ostensibly, I know where it's going, but do I knew, but I don't know

the story that they want to tell about Damon. Is there anything before all was said and done that you are advocating for to do as Damon? Yeah, yeah, there's quite a lot that I would like to happen. But I'm not in control, sadly. Sometimes. I know which ways I'd like to take it, of course, yeah. Can you hint at anything? You'd like to see it.

You're not in control, so it doesn't matter if it happens or not. Yeah, I know. Well, yeah, I mean, but I mean also in terms of tone or character sometimes. Yeah. About going, well, how do you see him and how do I see him and how do, you know. But, you know, the truth is that that's not my job on this. Much as I would like to influence that, it isn't. It's, um, that's, that's up to the guys who write it and, and, and, and, and it's, it's, it's, it's, it's story to tell. All right. So let's go, go backwards now. Um, we have the luxury of time. You're probably the most interesting Matt Smith ever. Like, your, your name is the least interesting, you know, there's this thing in England. There's this place called England. Um, you're from England? Yeah, I'm from England. It's a, it's another country. And there's this thing called, and there's this thing called, you know,

equity where so if you're an actor and you're called Matt Smith and there's another Matt Smith when you join equity you're not allowed to call yourself Matt Smith I'm just trying to get my name into every sentence that I say so there was this other Matt Smith who's a TV presenter

a sports presenter a football presenter of all things the bastard and so then they were like well you've got to you know change your name to like that's why people change their name sure and I was like well I'm not changing my name so I just didn't join for years but then it wasn't part of the union and blah blah blah. But so thank you.

There was no alternate name you considered just to differentiate yourself? Because that's my name. What would I be like? I get it. Yeah. Yeah. Matt Power. I think he's an adult film style. Yeah, I know. No, I just think wasn't there, didn't Homer change his name to Max Power once?

Homer Simpson did. He did. He did climbed a mountain. Do you have any nicknames? Do people just call you Matt? Yeah, I've got a few. What do you got? Smithy. Well, there's, you know, some I can name, some I can't. But you know, I'm from a kind of friendship group where we have multiple nicknames. Do you know what I mean? People have got like four or five.

Yeah. And I've got quite a few actually. Okay. Our conversations often devolve into talking about movies because you're a cinephile like me and we were similar ages. I mean, we just did that. We just basically did a podcast in there. We cast the new James Bond. We basically battered on every potential name.

Oh my God. The people are back. you're the only one that sees that I don't know what you're talking about so what were did you have any movie posters on your wall as a kid? Yeah I had the mask because I was

I was obsessed with Cameron Diaz getting out of the car she was my like super crush powerful yeah and then I mean I was I was obsessed with like I start there was this shop this local shop and you could go

and you could rent movies out and so I would go and I used to just I was obsessed with kind of Kung Fu movies I've heard that you You said ninja movies. Yeah, ninja movies. Like what ninja movies?

Like three ninjas? Yeah, yeah, pretty much. I mean, I wish I could think back and remember, but I was, and I'd watch them again and again. And it's only looking back that I realized how obsessive I was about films as a kid. Yeah. I used to rack up these huge finds at Blockbuster. Oh, same. What a missed opportunity Blockbuster was, man.

I know. I used to love going into Blockbuster, man. The design, and then there'd be like 30 copies of the new movie that came out. I bet it, honestly, in this day and age, I bet it comes back. Really? I don't know if it will be called blockbuster, but there's a thirst, I feel like, for that experience again.

Maybe, yeah. Maybe it's just us old people. But there was something beautiful about going to a movie shop, wasn't there, and renting a movie, and then, yeah, I used to. I would beg for, like, the posters or standees. Like, I would get some, I remember the Batman Returns posters I got. Oh, that was a bang of me. That's a great film.

Great film. Yeah. You have a real love for the, erotic thriller. Do you guys know this, Matt Smith really loves a good erotic? I do, I do actually, yeah, yeah. So what's your, what's your, like, top four? And a letterbox does top four movies of all time. What's

your top four erotic thrillers? Yeah. Well, do you know, okay, for instance, like, I don't know if you could call it an erotic thriller, but you kind of could. I watched species again the other day, which I just loved. Top to toe, love. Yeah. It's thrilling and it is erotic.

Erotic. Yeah. So it's technically, I guess, it's in there. Okay. Species. Species is in there. I mean, look, I don't know if you could call it a sort of erotic thriller because it's not really a thrill. I mean, look, you've got, it was those movies like basic instinct,

unfaithful, indecent proposal, it's not really erotic thriller, but there was something amazing. I loved that movie. Yeah. Disclosure is one you seen up. Yeah. With Demi Moore. Slither with Alec Baldwin.

Classic. that's a classic sliver you mentioned more than the people that were actually in it yeah for the record slither i loved because i was getting um copycat like i was getting these um single white female the handle the rot the cradle like i was i was going and renting these and it was completely inappropriate as well i was renting movies that were just so inappropriate for me and you know the movie that really fucked me up i went to see i went around to my friend's house called shawns and his older brothers were there and we watched i think it was Friday the 13th where, which is the one where you get stabbed through the bed.

Oh, I don't know, but okay. One of them. And that just ruined me. And then my dad phoned them up and like, you've got to stop late in watch scary movies, which was really embarrassing. Yeah. Yeah. But I've recently got into horror a bit more.

Okay, you're into horror now. Yeah. So were you into other genre stuff outside of that? Like, were you into, like, Lord of the Rings? Were you into James Bond as a kid? No, I wasn't really into James Bond or, or, um, I mean, I went to watch the Lord of the Rings. I went to watch two and three. back to back in the cinema at the midnight screening.

Okay. Yeah, six hours long. They're all. Yeah, it was, but I think those films are masterpieces, actually. I'm surprised we have not had Matt Smith in a, Where are the Rings, a Bond or a Harry Potter? How is this possible? None of those.

The bastards haven't asked me, have they? I mean, okay, here's a tough one for you. By the way, I could do this all day. Top five's hard, but trilogies. Oh, trilogies, that's interesting. Like Indiana Jones Yeah, I mean, you could argue though That unfortunately there are five now

But yes, the first three are the trilogy I mean the Godfather but three I defend three it's not as good as the first two But it's good, it's good, it's still good Back to the future Back to the future's in there 100% The Bourns Which ones? The Bourns

The James Bourne Yeah, yeah I think they're more than three now Yeah But take the three You know Just take the four cut it off after the first three The Dark Night trilogy you could do

Dark Night Star Wars I mean there's a lot but those first three. It's tough, isn't it? Very interesting. Okay. The Lord of the Rings are in there anyway. Yeah, definitely. Okay, so Chartered your career path, the first five, six years coming out of school, theater basically, mostly a lot of theater. Like, that's really where you're focused.

Are you imagining, like, coming to Hollywood? Are you coming to L.A.? Are you doing the L.A. thing then? Or did that come later? I think we've all imagined coming to Hollywood, darling. I mean, no. Yeah. I don't know really. No, I was just... Like, what was the career you imagined for yourself, like if I'd see you at, like, 2006 or something, you know, when you're kind of mostly doing theater then? I was just, I remember I did a play at the Royal Court.

It was called Fresh Kills. It was an American play based in New York, actually. And I just could not believe. It sounds really, you know, wanky, but I could not believe. I'd go to the cash point, and there'd be money in it. And I'm like, whoa, you're paying me. To do this. Yeah.

And, and, I don't know really. I always wanted to work for the BBC. I mean, I sat down with my dad, God love him, who's gone now, and I remember being sat down in the kitchen. I wanted to go to the National Theatre. I had a plan. I was like, I want to work there, and I knew I wanted to work at the BBC and go and be on the telly or whatever.

And then, you know, and the truth is I've still got, you know, probably ambitions beyond my talents. But I think it's good to have, to be all driven to have big dreams, you know. I think it's, you know, I mean, I'm 43, but there's a lot I want to achieve in this line of work still. Well, it is a fascinating. You alluded to this. Your cast is Dr. Who at a very young age. You were the youngest Doctor Who, I think, 26 years old. Yeah. What do you remember about the reception at the time? Because in looking back and reading about it, it seems like you were really an unknown by those standards. Very much. And maybe some people questioned who is this young unknown playing Doctor Who? Was that your sense of the

Yeah, it was very hard. I mean, I would walk down the street and people would be like, don't break Doctor Who. Someone actually said that to me. And then I was watching this really great comedian, actually. It wasn't on the fast show, but it was on, it was a guy he was, anyway, and he went through all the lists of Doctor Who's. This was on the telly.

I was in my flat. And he was like, you know, Sylvester McCoy, Dundler, Christopher Ecclinson, David Tennant, Matt Smith, who I don't agree with, and he was like he was pointing at me. And I was just like, fuck. And I was,

and I'd find my dad from Cardiff and go, fuck man, I can't do this. And he'd be like, look, just keep the faith. And I mean, that was a,

you're, you're taking on a huge thing there. It was, it was, it was a, real learning curve. Did you almost turn that one down too? Or was that,

I, I flared with it with my agent. I was like, I don't know. He was like, you're doing it, man, shut up. That's kind of what happens with me and job. But no, I sort of,

no, there was something that I was drawn to it. My mum actually texts me when that was about being cars. She was like, you should be Doctor Who out of nowhere. And then it was weird. Before it happened, you're saying before it was. Yeah, yeah. And then I couldn't tell anyone for like nine months. It was really interesting.

And people would go, so what are you up to next? And I'd go, man, nothing. with real confidence. You know what I mean? Nothing. Oh, something will turn up, yeah. You know, well. And I was doing press for a show, and it was really bizarre.

They were asking all of the other actors. What's coming in? Could be, yeah. Oh, really? It's like what we were doing in there about Bond going, well, who will it be? Yeah. Someone knows. Someone knows out there at the moment that it's them.

It's interesting looking back at what you chose to do coming off of Doctor Who. Yeah, because you mentioned American Psycho. You do, correct and find I'm wrong, you basically go from Doctor Who to doing Patrick Bateman, singing Patrick Bateman in London, and playing a psychopath for Ryan Gosling and his directing debut. Yeah, yeah, and I had to go back and film Doctor Who.

And, like, Ryan, on set one day, I was like, hey, hey, man, would you mind shaving your head? And I was like, yeah. And I got back to Doctor Who with no hair, and they were like, what the fuck? Yeah, that's a conversation. When Ryan Gosling asked you to do so, you're like, yeah, yeah, man, yeah, because he's amazing. Yeah.

So was that, I mean, that must have been, was that a conscious, obviously all the decisions are conscious decisions, but like to show folks what you could do coming off of Dr. crew that you have ranged to do really extreme different kinds of roles? I think I definitely saw out roles that felt more completely the other way. And now I'm just always cast in like nutters and crazy people. actually, it might be nice to go back and play someone who's a bit more. I don't know, but yeah, I definitely actively sort out the bad and the chaotic and the mad. But then, well, that's what's so interesting about the doctor is he kind of is those things.

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How much do you follow? I mean, every few years, there's a new doctor. And right now we're in a transition point, right? And it's fascinating. I'm always fascinated by Dr. Hu because, you know, it's one thing globally and outside of the UK. And it's a whole other thing. It became, frankly, in your years and David Tennant, it became more of a global phenomenon. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, maybe. I mean, I was, woo, woo. I was. I was, look, it was very difficult to follow David, who was the most amazing actor and man and doctor and a great leader. And, you know, it's sort of funny watching those moments.

I remember just the fear of, you know, you don't know until you know. It's a strange thing. And so it was a real, it was such a huge challenge. But I'm so proud of that show. And the great thing is, you know, people say, oh, Doctor Who's this and Matt. And it's, you know, the doctor. He never dies. He never goes away. He, she, they will be back in force. And it will, it will continue to sort of evolve and change and grow. And it's the, because it's the most brilliant

concept for a show. And, you know, we've got the same little weird club doctors. Do you know what's so funny? Get this, right? True story. Chris Eccleston, he used to, I hope he doesn't mind me telling you this, but basically, we used to pass each other, you know, in this block of flats. And, you know, he sort of was going to one flat and I was going to another flat. And we just pass each other in the morning and go, morning doctor, morning doctor. That's amazing. And that's what we'd say. It was amazing.

He was a great doctor, Chris. Great doctor. How would a win? I mean, we joke about something like Morbius, and we reference. like Terminator, I'm just curious, like those kind of experiences, which you, obviously, you go into the best of intentions, but it's kind of a fascinating kind of like alternate reality where it's like, if that Terminator hits, you do a trilogy of those. Morvious hits, who know, like, do you remember, like, Terminator is an odd one?

Like, you were playing kind of like SkyNet as a physical manifestation, as I recall. I mean, I think the plan was, yeah, and then he, you know, the plan was, Skynet was going to come back as like an Uber Terminator. in the second movie and be like a sort of the guy, you know, like be like the best Terminator ever. But that was the excitement for you for that. Yeah, because he was gonna go on and be some sort of like cool villain,

which I thought was, you know, I just, it's so hard, isn't it? Like Terminator 2 is a, we talk about Masterpiece. That's kind of, it's kind of a perfect movie, isn't it? In a way, it's, and how can you? Yeah. No, you know what? mean by doing that, don't you?

That's how iconic it is. Robert Patrick, great. Switching gears in a profound way. We should mention the crown. I mean, the crown, which is a great achievement. Yes, very proud of the crown. Again, I feel like the common theme that we keep talking about is like hesitation before you take on these iconic roles.

Well, yeah, yeah. I mean, there's a lot that goes with that, obviously. Major hesitations before jumping into playing Philip or not? It was complicated because I was still doing. doing Terminator. And so it wasn't it wasn't sort of plain sailing. But yeah, yeah, there was.

I mean, also like, I, my agent of famous said, oh, they're doing a TV show about the Royal Family and I was like, oh, right. I mean, does anyone care? And then I read it and was like, whoa. I read all 10. He'd written all 10 scripts, P. And Peter Morgan is, you know, amazing.

And I was just like, my God, this is brilliant. And I'm just, you know, and this character of Prince Philip is brilliant. And, and, you know, it's interesting. There was a real sense. You talk about kind of protecting characters. In England, he was viewed as this sort of bumbling idiot. And I saw that actually, no, there was this hugely complex, progressive, intelligent, difficult man

whose wife was the queen. And he didn't give a fuck about that. And she was totally had over heels in love with him. And he hurt. And it was complicated. But it was, I thought, yeah, I was just like, God, this is really beautiful. I think we're co-presidents of the Claire Foy fan club.

You and I, right? Right. One of the greats. Clare's one of the greats. How much of that performance was influenced by just having her as your screen partner for so much of it? All of it.

Yeah, it's you learn, I mean, Claire's just capable, a bit like Emma of anotherness that I probably don't possess as an actor. But actually maybe there's an interesting chemistry that happens there. But yeah, Claire is a, you know. A legend. Yeah, a legend. Claire is a legend. I can't believe I didn't mention Claire Foy.

Claire Foy is a legend, straight up. You and I have danced around Star Wars over the years. We've talked about Star Wars quite a lot. And ironically, finally... I've danced around Star Wars over the years. So for those that don't know, Matt very nearly was in a Star Wars movie called The Rise of Skywalker. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

A role that came and went that was rewritten. But Destiny said, no, Matt, we need you in Star Wars. Yeah, thank God actually, because I just... Yeah, I loved making this film. So you have shot your role in Star Wars Starfighter opposite the... Yeah, Ryan Gosling, directed by Sean Levy. Yeah, Sean. I know we're not going to spoil anything, needless to say.

But circumstances of how this even happened, like, can you say anything about that? I don't know. I got a phone call. I mean, no, I don't. I honestly don't know. But it was, you know, it's kind of, obviously to do a move. I mean, I was, you know, Sean's an amazing creative person. He's an amazing creative, I mean, I don't know if you've ever interviewed him.

Obviously the best. It's the most positive force on the planet, right? Yeah, yeah. It's a pretty incredible thing to be around on a film set, his energy. And I just tapped into that. I imagine maybe Ryan had put in a good word for me or something. I don't know. Right.

But I can't imagine that I'd have got close to it otherwise, really. You know, on mere talent alone. Please. And I was so, so I went and had this meeting and Sean explained the character to me and the world and who else was going to be in it potentially. And I was just like, wow, this is. You know, to do a movie of like that that has real scale, you know, global scale, but also has the sort of the tone and the temperament and the quality and the sort of level of human detail that I think it might have. I think it's going to be really good.

Where in the pantheon of charismatic, unpredictable, Matt Smith characters is this one going to be set? I don't know. It's hard. It's quite hard to comment because maybe I just think they're really boring. but he's pretty interesting guy or girl. Who knows? I can't say too much, you know. But it's an interesting, it's interesting, I think.

Did you finally sit down and watch some Star Wars movies? Because you also admitted to me years ago that you really hadn't watched Star Wars. It's the same in Doc 2. I know. Isn't that terrible? Next question. That's how cool you are. You don't have to watch the movies.

You just, you're in them. It's kind of how it goes. Here's my last question. I talked to Gosling about this actually. He missed the day on set that Tom Cruise came. Oh, man. Did you meet Tom Cruise? No, I really want to meet Tom Cruise as well, man.

I was quite gutted about that. I love Tom Cruise. I just, also I just, you know, I've got so many questions to ask him about being an actor. You must have interviewed him of you. I've had a couple experiences. What would you ask Tom Cruise? What would I ask him? Oh, mate, I'd get bang into the craft.

I'd go deep with Tom. Yeah? About it. Yeah, I talk about it quite intensely with him. think. What's your, what's your top Tom Cruise? Fit movies? Yeah. Oh man alive. Where do we begin? Jesus Christ. I mean, look, there's like, I think risky business sliding with the socks and on the train. Talk about erotic thrillers. There's something, there's a lovely, like, level of sort of low-level teenage eroticism about that film that it was, was not lost on me. Yeah. Do you know what I mean?

I just think, you know, he, he, top, Tom. I just think there's a sort of brilliant, you know, there's a, the craft, the level of craft that is taking place there, I'd be, because I quite like the craft of acting. Yeah. It sounds like, wanky, doesn't it? But like, you know, if you're a carpenter or whatever, there's, you know, it does, it is about continual practice and investment in that. And that, and that's also why I love to work with Emma, because Emma really invest in the craft of it. And they really believe in that process. They just made a movie with... That's right. They're in the, you know, Rito movie, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Okay, so you alluded to this. I'm curious. You mentioned, like, kind of being gold-driven. Like, you know, you're just getting started. You've got a lot under your belt, but there's a lot to come. What do you think about what kind of experiences are you chasing? What's left to... Oh, wow, that's a good question.

I mean, I think maybe there's a... a tone of film that I'm seeking out to make and in many different ways really I might do a play I I I think there's maybe a bit of work to be explored behind the camera right in a way yeah and and um just to invest in yeah it's you know there's this this is quite a sort of broad broad spectrum of you know I really loved that I just produced something and I really enjoyed that I really enjoyed being part of that process just having more power was great you'll listen to me Yeah. And we still need to get you on stage here. You came close for Wong's.

Lungs. That almost happened. And then we lost out to COVID. Yeah. Is there a, have you done a musical since American Psycho? Would you do another musical? But I bloody should. I can't actually sing. This is the, you know, you know like, oh man, like I came to American Psycho. I just had an operation on my knee after Doctor Who because most, lots of doctors have had it actually. Because what happens is when when you're facing the age. alien. You think it's going to get this physical, did you? What happens is you run down the corridor and you see the Dalek or whoever said alien. And you go like, whoa. And so, honestly, like, so I think Peter Capaldi had the same thing.

So you're all limping around together. You're all just like. And actually, if you see, then I go back and do the Christmas special, I've got a cane in it. I'm limping around. And if, but I got this read-through. and I wasn't in the fittest of shape and it had to be. I got there. I went really hard. But at a musical,

everyone sings. And I started singing a bit and you could see these other actors looking at me going this guy is shit. But I sort of got there. I kind of acted my way through it and you know, that show was really good. Is there a specific role

particularly on stage you'd like to do like that's on the list? Like a classic or? Oh God, yeah. Do you know what? It was really annoying, right? Like, I get home, and I'm like, fuck, we should have said that. Because, yes, there is.

And then, but I mean, I think I'll definitely come back to the stage. You know, maybe next year, I would love to do a play here. Just because I'd love to be here, I love being here. I love being in New York. What great city. It's the best. Did you enjoy auditioning? Like, were you a good auditioner?

Is that? Some I was good and some I was bad. It's a real hit and miss sort of thing with me. And the ones I got, I was good in. And the ones I didn't, and there were many, I didn't. And things that you'd have seen and gone, that would have been interesting, I don't know. Do you have a favorite one that, like, whether it worked out of the ones?

That got away. That too. I mean, I'll take anything. I'll take one that got away or just a happy experience of, like, whether you got the role or not. Oh, I had a wonderful audition with Ryan Gosling in New York. We like ended up going outside on the street and doing this. I mean, I don't know if you remember, but at the start of that movie, bully, bully, bully is like in a car going, welcome to

bully. Da, that. He goes to this mad speech. And we ended up doing it out on the street in the middle of New York. It was brilliant. Amazing. All right. We're going to end with this. You've done it before, but we're going to try it again. The happy Sag infuse profoundly random questions. Yes. Ready? Go. Dogs or cats? Dogs. How's Bobby doing? Fucking great, man. Literally, whenever we kind of communicate,

our first line of questioning is, has the dog. It's true. Picture great, yeah, Bobby's great, man. It's true. I will say, at some point, you know, I'm doing this celebrity and dog show. I'm going to go to England.

We're going to get Bobby on the show. 100%. I'm there, bray. 100%. I'm going to do it. What do you collect? Oh, good vibes. And glasses and rewrot classics.

Okay. Favorite video game of all time? Street Fighter or World Cup, 1994, European Soccer, or Resident Evil, the first one. Wow. Yeah. Those sucked some hours out of your life? Oh, man, yeah. That first Resident Evil was just, because we've talked about this earlier.

I love those like end of world zombie apocalypse type stories. I'm into that. That's why you did patient zero. Patient career, though. Another classic. I've never seen that movie. Nor have I. Thank God.

We can laugh because there's so many wonderful experiences. Exactly. Thank goodness. The Dakota Johnson Memorial question she asked me. I ask everybody, would you rather have a mouthful of bees or one be in your butt. Oh, God.

Welcome to my mouth, baby. I'll just brush my teeth after and cry. Although maybe a bee in the butt is, who knows? Who knows? What a brilliant question. Or put your hands together. What's the wallpaper on your phone? I saw it, actually.

Yeah, it's my dog. It's Bobby, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Who's the last actor you were mistaken for? Nick Noltee. I'm joking. We love Nick Nolte, but he's amazing. No, who's the last actor I was mistaken for?

I don't know, man. Are you... No? Does it come to me? I want it to be Nick Nolte. Someone said to me the other day, you know you look like Nick Nolte. So I was like, cool, I'll take that. That's the gravitas.

Yeah, I'll take that. Nick Nolty and Martin Short and what was that movie? Just My Luck or Pure Luck No, no. The fugitive. The fugitive. I fucking loved that.

That was a great film. I also love that type of 80s sort of buddy like road movie. Who do you want to star in your buddy movie? Your road trip buddy movie. Your midnight run. Oh, what was that?

Suggestions? No. Oh, was that a suggestion? Oh, God. I'm going to have such a great answer later, aren't I? It's going to really come to me. It's going to be like, fuck.

The end of the end of the end of the end of the actor, you want to just. Someone sort of, you know. We can make this happen. McNulty. Nick Nolty. It would be unusual. I'll watch it. Worst note of director's ever given you.

Where do I begin? Worst note a director's ever given me. I don't know, really. Can you just do it a bit more? Fuck off, mate. I'm the actor here. No, I don't know, really. I try and take, you know, one tries to take everything on board, really.

But, you know, and maybe every note, the thing is you've got to try and be open, because maybe actually they're seeing it from an angle that you just don't know. Right. So, you know, I try, I try and be open about it. You're getting very close to entering the Five Timers Club UnhappySay, Say I Confused. You're going to get a hat very soon. Okay, very good. You don't get a hat today.

Yeah. But I did find this. Only you would get a sliver DVD. Yes. This is, it's the unrated version. You'll be happy to know. Thank you. It's William Baldwin as well.

Oh, Tom Beringer, man. Come on. And Shaz, Matt, come on. There you go. By the way, as David Sheehan at NBC TV said, don't miss it. Thank you, Josh. We're going to add your quote to the box. Ladies and gentlemen, the new season of House of the Dragon is excellent.

Check out June 21st, HBO. Give it up. one more time for the legend that is Matt Smith, everybody. Thank you so much. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you, Josh. And so ends another edition of happy, sad, confused.

Remember to review, rate, and subscribe to this show on iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm a big podcast person. I'm Daisy Ridley, and I definitely wasn't pressured to do this by Josh. Hi, I'm Brandi Passanti. For the last 15 years, I've started on one of the most successful reality shows of all time. Story tours. On my no show, the real reality, my guest and I will reveal the real story of what it's like navigating fame and notoriety. Because it's my show, I can do whatever I want, I can say whatever I want. No filters, no rules, no network executives. And I believe that's what

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