Happy Sad Confused - Matthew McConaughey

Episode Date: October 28, 2020

At long last Matthew McConaughey is on the podcast! And he does not disappoint, regaling Josh with amazing stories from his life and career and from his new book, "Greenlights". Plus, Josh discovers his unique place in Matthew's career and why he's in his memoir! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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He's got a motorcycle. Get after him or have you shot? What do you mean blow up the building? From this moment on, none of you are safe. New episodes every Wednesday, wherever you get your podcasts. Prepare your ears, humans. Happy, sad, confused begins now.

Today on Happy, Say, Confused, Matthew McConaughey on his new memoir, Green Lights, and Why I'm In It. Hey, guys, I'm Josh Horowitz. Welcome to another edition of Happy, Sad, Confused. This is an interesting one today, guys. This gives me some closure. This is the end of a journey for me. Boy, a boy, Matthew McConaughey.

No one like him as an actor, as a personality, as a human being. And this is a hell of a conversation. But beyond that, but beyond that, guys, he and I have a strange, unique history connection. And I want to go into it a little bit, give you a little bit of context here. I've talked about this a little bit in the past on the podcast as a mystery that has lingered. lingered for about two years now. In fact, actually, two and a half years, if I do the math. Two and a half years ago, I'm in Las Vegas for what's called CinemaCon, which is a kind of a movie convention for the exhibitors. For the folks, there used to be this thing called movie

theaters. That's a bad joke. Anyway, that was the convention. I would go to every year and all the stars would come out, and Matthew McConaughey comes out one year. He's promoting a movie. I see him on a red carpet and maybe the best thing to do is just to launch right into this and I'm going to play for you the clip of what happened when Matthew McConaughey

approaches me on a red carpet two and a half years ago and I think you'll understand why it haunted me for two and a half years until this day. I've got a great story

I'm going to share with you 20 years maybe 30 years which is something with having to do with us having to do with you particular and me about 30 years i'm going to be dead by then i'm like five or 70 years old no you won't you will be alive and we will have a powwow and we'll do it on camera and we're going to laugh so hard because it's true but nobody knows it but me yeah wow okay

i'm going to try and stick to this movie for now and then we're going to come back around to us so that's what happened and i had no idea what how he was talking about. And until a week ago, I still had no idea what he was talking about. And we were only about two years into the promised 25 or 30 year eventual explanation for this. Well, thankfully, guys, I had booked Matthew to come on my podcast for the first time, by the way. And this is exciting. Regardless of this weird story, this would have been exciting because I wanted to have Matthew on the podcast for a while. Anyway, I'm reading his new book. I've read it by now, but I'm reading it last week. It's called Green Lights, and it's a hell of a read.

I highly recommend it. If you are fascinated by Matthew McConaughey, as I am, and why shouldn't you be, he's, you know, he's that Nick Cage level. He's that, like, he's on his own, like, wavelength. He's Woody Harrelson, Bill Murray, you know, these types of actors. They just, they're not like us, and I mean that in a good way. This book, this memoir of sorts, is full of fantastic stories, amazing stories, mostly about his life, less about his career, but there's tons of career stuff in there, too. Anyway, I'm reading the book, and I come to a page where, this is like two-thirds into the book, he tells a story about me and him.

This is the story, guys. This is the story. what he promised what he told me two and a half years ago that we would talk about it's in the book so i didn't have to wait 30 years i didn't even have to wait 25 years i had to wait two and a half years and it was i kind of loved the way it happened i found out just by reading the memoir myself and i'm not going to go into it too much right now we go into it in this conversation right at the outset and it's a lot of fun um but suffice it to say i was kind of i wouldn't say responsible but I am a very, very big part of the McConnaissance, the famed McConaissance, that was, of course, Matthews' journey back to the top of Hollywood, where he eventually won the Oscar for Dallas Buyers Club, and he won the Emmy and every other award for True Detective.

That was all termed the McConaissance, this collection of great movie and TV roles that he did. And unbeknownst to me until this time, I was a big part of said McConaissance. Crazy story. It's only going to get crazier when you actually hear the story from Matthew's own lips. We had a good laugh about it. I hope you guys enjoyed it as much as I did. Like I said, it's a full circle moment. Now I can move on to the next mystery in my life. I don't know what's going to top that one. Anyway, this is a fun conversation with a true, you know, as I said, a guy who marches to the beat of his own drummer. And it's a great read. So I can't recommend green lights highly enough. Other things to mention. In brief, I do want to, of course, plug Stir Crazy, my Comedy Central series, new episode this week with Chris Red from Saturday Night Live.

He is awesome and hysterical. He's got two new kind of Halloween-friendly movies out there right now, including Vampires versus the Bronx, which is a lot of fun on Netflix. So yes, you can check that out in Comedy Central's YouTube and Facebook pages, et cetera. Did a fun interview with Emma Roberts for MTV. I go way back with Emma forever. so that was fun to get to catch up with her for her new Netflix film holiday um the adam Brody conversation is still up on MTV's uh YouTube page and that was a lot of fun his movie The Kid Detective is great uh so yeah we're turning and burning a lot of good stuff not to mention

oh yeah there's an election coming up guys get out there and vote if you haven't voted already I voted the other day I voted early here in New York uh it felt great get to uh get to your polling At this point, guys, best bet is to go there, either do the early voting or go that day. The mail system, we can't count on it, and we certainly don't want those ballots getting in there late. So go, if at all possible, go yourself to the polling place and drop your ballot or, you know, go to the polling station and make your voice be heard. We've got to end the madness, participate as much as you can in these last few days leading up to the election. We've got to turn this country around. We've got to get this maniac out of the White House.

We have to save democracy. It doesn't get much bigger than this, guys. I'm optimistic. I'm hopeful, but it's not going to happen unless you and everybody you know in Pennsylvania and Wisconsin and, yes, Texas, in Ohio and all these swing states, everybody's got to get out there and this has to be a sweeping referendum on what's been a really painful four years for the country and yeah it's got it's got to turn around so it's on all of us it's on our shoulders this is our opportunity to change things so do what you can anyway I hope you guys enjoy this chat with Matthew McConaughey again his book is green lights

enjoy this and spread the good word of happy, say, Confused, rate, review, and subscribe on iTunes and yeah, here it is. Here's the chat, and here's the answer to the mystery. Josh. Mr. McConaughey, Matthew. How are you, sir? Good, man.

Good to see you. Oh, we have some stuff to talk about you and I. First of all, congratulations on the book, man. This is a trip. I devoured this thing. It's crazy, but amazing. Thank you. Thank you.

Let's just get off to the races, if you're cool with that. So here I am, Matthew, reading your wonderful book the other day, enjoying it. Every chapter is unexpected. Every page is an adventure. And then I come to a paragraph, Matthew, that involves me and you. I don't even know where to start with this, but the McConnaissance, the famed Maconisance, nearly eight years ago, you and I are talking at Sundance. What happened, Matthew?

I'm trying to figure this all out. Well, I remember the interview very well. You remember it very well, right? It's a nice chilly, chilly day. I think it was there with mud going around, talking mud and stuff. And I, you know, had been hearing this thing, like, oh, man, you're really on a run. You know, this is kind of, you're really laying in a bullet back to back to back. You're really on a hot streak here, right?

And I felt it, you know, and people were saying it. And so I'm sitting there with you and you come up and you say the same thing to me. Well, you've really been on a run. And right about that moment, I mean, maybe I was subconsciously. thinking about a title, but I was like, yeah, it needs a, it needs a slogan. It needs an album title. It needs something that's a one word, easy, fun thing to say that kind of makes you smile. It needs a campaign slogan, you know? So I said, yeah, and I knew immediately, I was like, look, I can't, it doesn't work if I say, yeah, I think it should be called him and not, right?

So I said, yeah, you know, I was talking to an earlier interview. And the guy was saying the same thing. He's really been on a run. He goes, and this guy says, yeah, it's like you're on a McConaissance. And you went, McConaissance, that's cool. Yeah, you think that'll stick? You like that? I mean, you go, you like how that sounds? I mean, like, yeah, it comes off the tongue, nice. It's fun to say, puts a smile on your face when you say it. It sounds kind of musical, kind of lyrical. Yeah, and you were like, that might stick. And it did. So I was basically your focus group. I was. I was the trial run for what became. You're the trial run live right there.

You and I. I love it. I am forever immortalized in an amazing run in an amazing career. I'm relieved a couple. You clarified a few things. I was worried there was like a board meeting the day before where you were like really conniving and really like, okay, what are the names? We're going to plant this in an interview.

No, no, no. At least it was organic. I didn't sit down with the publicist. I hadn't been thinking about it, really, really planning it. um it just kind of came to and this must have been when i ran into you a couple years ago on a red carpet and you came up to me and you said i've got a fun story about us that i'm not going to tell you for a while this is i assume this is that story this is that story this is that story i want you to know when you said that to me on the carpet it like haunted me i was like

racking my brain through all of our conversations i'm like what the hell is he talking about and i did tell you it was a fun story right you did you did yeah i knew it was nothing bad so again tiny part of your story, sir. But it does strike me. One thing about that story that I think captures something that I find unique about you in your career and your life is you present as one thing. And you, maybe at first blush, I think some people underestimate you or underestimated you way back when.

I think of the same thing with your buddy Woody Harrelson. You present almost sometimes as like, if you don't know any better, oh, this guy is, he's like a lazy stoner guy, right? He's just, he has all these God-given gifts and he's just kind of rolling through life. Yeah. You are, and you talk about this in the book, you are a planner. You think of, you think through things through to the nth degree. Yeah.

Do you think being underestimated served you well? Did you feel that at points in your life and career? Uh, I don't know. I mean, look, I'll say this, and this may be part and parcel with, with some definition of the word underestimated. I've always considered myself an underdog. I've always, I think, performed better and more truly when I feel like the underdog. If I don't feel like the underdog, I try to create resistance in front of me to feel like the underdog. I'm better when I'm having to overcome something.

It's a verb. I'm in action. I like trying to figure out. I like trying to investigate. I either endure something or pivot and re-approach it in a different way. I'm not that comfortable feeling like ta-da I've got it okay this is great I don't and when I have felt those times I try to very quickly cut myself back and go wait a minute you're not hungry enough if you're feeling like you don't have like

even with a roll if I get to a spot you know man I've got this down and three weeks into work I'm like yeah I'll just glance at my I'm already prepared for my work I don't need to sit down for that hour before I go to bed like I do every night you got this McCona. No, no, no. That means you're not digging hard enough. That means you're not looking hard enough. You need to look at it from a different way. Don't get complacent. So I like to put myself in that underdog position mentally and always have. And what about the aspect of image versus talent? Because I think one thing I also admire about you and look, this book is like unfiltered McConaughey. I'm reading this. I'm like I'm in your brain a few nights. I'm reading this. It feels like, you know, some actors, some performers, resist the accoutrements, the image that's placed on them, whether it's real or not real. At a certain point, and maybe it's always been, it feels like you embraced who you are. Like you, you know, it's like, yeah, I'll do surfer dude. I get the joke.

I'm, that's part of me. That's an aspect of me. Was that a journey for you? Or was it always sort of like, I'm okay if you want to make the jokes about the bongos, but respect for the other side of me, too. Yeah. Well, I mean, I suppose I learned and had to next. navigate that along the way and have learned sometimes better ways to navigate that than others.

You know, I've found that in life and not just in my image as who I am as an actor, movie star, et cetera, and how is that similar to me in my own real life or what have you? But in life in general, I always like to go, instead of going bucking something and going, wait a minute, stop, no, I'm not that. always go to the affirmative. Well, how can I lean into that? It's almost like more like a jiu-jitsu, I guess, and I'm just saying this for the first time. It's like, no, let me go with that. Yeah. And, and read, let me say yes to that. Let me affirm that. Let me compare before I contrast and own that, but take it and maybe reshape it as I go through it. But go with that flow. I don't like, nor have I ever enjoyed spending the energy to try and,

and say, oh, I'm wearing this one hat in my life. And now wait a minute, but wait, I'm going out the door. Wait, cameras are on. Oh, now I gotta wear another hat. Now I gotta be that guy. The entrances and exits, I call them right angles of demarcations between behind the camera and in front of the camera.

I don't like those. I don't think of the emotional energy just that you would have to expend every day to live a different life. But some people do it. And some people do it very well. And it has been very helpful for their careers. Look, I cash the check a long time ago is not being the movie star who's going to go insulate himself

or drive in the three unmarked bulletproof cars and you don't know which one he's in, so who do you follow? I respect the people that do that. I respect the many actors out there movie stars who are like, understand, and there's a great value in this, to not be seen in the public eye. So when your movie comes out, it's a special event that, oh, this is the only place I can go see there's great value in that. But that's a commitment. That's a commitment. It is quite a commitment. I think of, and I'll name names, and it's in a good way, I think of DiCaprio.

DeCaprio, you don't know almost anything. You see the paparazzi photos and you're like, wait, that's the side of his life. But like, he's great at just sort of that's, that's for me. And it's neutral. It's got a hat on, sunglasses. Yeah. There's not a big expression that someone can go GIF or write a, write a headline about. You know what I mean?

It's kind of in the background. And so people do that and it's, and I admire it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, I's, I, I, I'm just not for, for me. Um, because I just, that's not where I like to put out my effort. But again, I admire. There's a lot of people that do, and I see how it's advantageous to, um, I mean, the, the, the, the start was obviously dazed and, I mean, I think of, I mean, the start was obviously dazed and can, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I But the jumpstart, the moment, and I remember this very well, as I'm sure you do, was the Vanity Fair cover, the Time to Kill moment where you were suddenly thrust into the spotlight in that, succeeded in that. And then next thing you know, wait, he's in a Spielberg movie. He's in a Zemeckis movie. It was just a run like I've never seen. An actor just shot out of a canon. What I'm curious about is on the set of a time to kill. You get this opportunity. You're with Joel Schumacher. You're with Sandra Bullock, who's coming off of speed. Do they help you through that process? Or did you feel like you were ready for that kind of opportunity then? You know, maybe, well, I mean, look, Joel helped me quite a bit. Joel Schumacher, rest in peace.

He recently moved on. He did a brilliant thing with a young man who had some innate ability, but didn't quite know what actually. I never taken an acting class by that point. He made it very clear. From the very first screen test, I had you to, I cast you to be Jake against because of who you are. Be you. So every time I go, well, I don't know if Jake would do this,

he was like, quit talking about Jake as another character. You are Jake. I remember he always said, you are Jake. Beautiful, simple thing to tell an actor who has a lead role. It's actually not, I'm almost a beautiful, great thing. It's almost a beautiful, great thing to tell any actor, no matter how well-versed they are. But it was definitely something good to tell a young man who didn't know exactly what acting was, but had instincts for it, who had never been to acting classes, but, again, had an innate ability to do it.

He was like, URJ, so he'd simplify it, simplify, simplify, simplify, simplify. I understood that I was in a lead role of a major motion picture. I felt it when the studio heads and my buddies Lorenzo de Bonaventura came down there and then, you know, checking in. And a lot of it was this, he's rolling. He put in another great day's work. He's laying the character down.

He's ready. Don't say anything. Just just, just don't say anything. And don't let him, so there were measurements of, you know, I think people probably in hindsight acting towards me like, yeah, this is how, this is how it's supposed to go. Don't get too high, you know what I mean? Don't get, because you can get over-excited.

If someone's going like, do you know how great this is going? You're doing so great. You can start to go, oh, and maybe the next day you're playing more of an attitude or you're not as present because you're relaxed feeling like, oh, it's going so great. And I just got affirmation that it's going great. So no one ever really came up and said, do you understand how great this is going?

No one ever said that. I kind of felt it was going well and I just kept saying, hey, a day of the time, knock it down, look at it, you know your man, go play Jake. And then it was over. And when it was over, I will say this, some of those people did come up and go, oh, okay, dude. Did you know what you just did? And I was like, you know, but they did, they definitely didn't say that during. So it was very good. The people around me were wonderful that way. I know you mentioned the recent, there's a new story of Jake in print right now. Obviously, you mentioned we sadly lost Joel relatively recently. Can you imagine revisiting the role with another filmmaker? Is there another filmmaker that could tell that story that you have in mind? Well, I haven't had anyone in mind for it. But I did read the book, and one of the fun things about reading it was I let myself completely see myself as the character, Jake, which was fun. And it made it quite an enjoyable read.

I have not thought about who would direct that. I have not even initiated like, oh, let's get the script written and make this happen. Right. But it is a, it would, it is something that, that would, I would give some serious consideration to. Do you ever dream in character or about your characters years on? Do you, do you, do you, do you think back to characters that they come up? I know about your wet dreams, which I wasn't expecting to know about votes in the book. What about stuff about your, your, the characters you played?

Do I ever dream about those? That's a good question. I need to think about that. Not really. I don't remember the last time I dreamed in character or dreamed of myself as one of the characters. But at the same time, I see every one of my characters in my daily life all the time.

Because every one of them, you know, there's a misconception, I think, out there, even amongst some of us actors who don't even notice it's true for ourselves sometimes that we're inhabiting somebody. we're inhabiting somebody else and we're being other than ourselves. And the fact is every actor is the vessel.

Right. And every aspect of any piece of humanity in the world is in every one of us. Actor or non-actor. Everything that any actor's ever done is in you. Every character that's out there is in you. It goes through us. It's we just personally have to turn up the volume or mix the equalizer on our self of what part of me

is, am I really gonna lean into that this character has much more of and what part of me parts of me am i going to turn down you know that this character has none of or less of yes start with the similarities don't start with the differences find the points of compare before you contrast you know uh and again the script gives you that but then after that the work for me is finding who that character is in myself and finding where i'm him he's me and oh okay to get to kind of back to if you if you do enough work and get there and you're seeing your characters,

I call it my man from the inside out, you get to that place where Joe Schumacher's direction is right for any role. You are. Don't overthink it. You're there. It's there already. It takes work to get to that point though,

because there is, I have learned to become much more of a technical actor, to become much more of a choreographer and an architect of my roles and their journey through the story. So, you know, you, you, You can't really, there's work to do. You can't just say, well, just, I'm the character.

Because then you just go out and you act, like you said, you're like, well, no, there's work to do to get to find that part in yourself. Sure. Get to the point where you go, well, I am the character. But that is the ultimate goal to get there and go, what do you mean, who? There's no second person. I'm not being objective at all. There is no objectivity.

I am. And that's the place where you're singing as a performer, you know? Your dad casts quite a long shadow in your life and in this book. and he was, by all accounts, an amazing character. Have you played him in a way in any of your roles? Did you base any of them? The closest, and it wasn't really him, but it was a world he lived in

and a real side of him that he loved. And that was Kenny Wells and gold. That was a carny little world and a part of my dad who was the Riverboat Gambler, who was the, I'm investing in this diamond mine in Ecuador. North. They're going to fly us over. And, you know, I'm getting my picture coming through the jungle with my machete. There's diamond mines around here. There wasn't no diamond mines, man. But it didn't matter. It was fun. It was an adventure. It was, you know, the story I tell

about, you know, a Chicago giant, you know, be selling, selling my dad, you know, my dad getting in the son, look at the $17,000 titanium Rolex. It wasn't titanium. man, the thing was half-ass silver and probably worth 500 bucks. You know what I mean? But it didn't matter. That's what he loved, the possibility, you know, and he liked it turned him on. So he had that side of him, as well as being quite the moralist on the other side. But he loved a Ponzi scheme. If he could pull it off, he'd always say, if I could just hit a lick, if I could just hit a lick. And that meant peddling pipe, if I can get a big account or somebody buys long-term account of all the pipe I've got.

And he never did hit that lick, but he loved chasing hitting that lick. And that was a lot of Kinney Wells. And it's a touching story you tell in when you started your career and you talk about the red lights and the green lights in your career and how sometimes they bizarrely happen right on top of each other and how in the middle of making days your dad passed. What I was really moved by was what your dad said to you when you told him you were going to make a go of this because you weren't like 10 years old saying I'm going to act. You were on the path to being a lawyer.

Can you talk about what the conversation was like with your dad when you told them about film school? So I was 20 years old. I had been expected and expected myself to become a lawyer for the past 10 years. That's what I was going to do. I was confident I could be good at it. I could love it. Criminal of Defense. And coming at the end of my sophomore year in college, about that time where, you know, the first two years you can take any credits.

Liberal arts, they can apply to anything. But coming on junior, senior year, your credits better be. funneled toward where you're going because if you change your path then you may lose credits so i was not sleeping well with the idea of being a lawyer the idea of graduating going to law school getting out oh maybe not really putting my mark in the world until i was in my 30s i've been spent my 20s learning i was like ah i don't know about that i got things i want to do right now well i had been writing as you know from the book and the diaries and i'd written writing short stories and stuff and i had a buddy who was at film school at NYU who was like you've thought about

film school you're a really good storyteller and he's the one who told me you ought to think about getting in front of the camera you got good character and i the part about getting in front of the camera i couldn't even admit at that time i was like ah but the part about being a storyteller in general was enough of a short enough bridge for me to go okay i can i can say that word out loud i can i can approach that as maybe the move i need to make well that's all finding good but now i got to get approval from my father who's paying for my school. I come from a family where you work your way up, blue collar. The arts, film school? What the hell is that? That's a hobby. That's something you maybe get to do on the side if you're lucky and fortunate enough in life.

That's, remember, it feels so avant-garde. So European in my mind, I was like, my dad's not going to go with this. He's not going to approve this. But I worked up to Kerr's and I planned it out, 7.30, Tuesday night, I'm going. He'll be home from work at 5. He'll already eat in a meal. I'll probably be having a beer with mom and the couch, talking about something. Good time to call dad.

It'll be good. My best chances. And I call them up. He goes, hey, little buddy. What you got? I said, bad, I've been doing a lot of thinking. And I don't want to go to law school. I don't want to become a lawyer.

I want to go to film school. Now, I'm got a little, I'm sweating at this point, awaiting this. And that was hard to say. that first thing to him. There was a pause about five seconds. And all of a sudden, I hear on the other than the line, he goes, is that what you want to do?

And I said, yes, sir. There's another pause about five seconds. And then he said, well, don't half ass it. And I remember just getting chills and, and, and, and, and, I think I cried just, hearing my dad not only approve what I wanted to do but like give me a kick in the back side to say you not only have my approval you have the freedom the privilege the responsibility of this go do it he shot me out those three words just made me

shot me out launched me like a rocket and those are the best three words he could have ever said to me and it was all it was awesome at the time and it was something that you know three words that recurred in my life later on in many junctures to go, well, if you're going to do this, don't have facet. And it's one, it's a good and I think we can all take into certain things. But boy, it was the most beautiful three words he could have given me. So I went to film school. And then after one year of film school in the summer of 92 is when I was in the right bar, right time, got cast days confused, three lines turned into three weeks work. I become David Wooderson and days confused. Finish that film. Go back

to film school. As a much better filmmaker after the three weeks on the set, much better filmmaker just seeing the practical experiential learning of being on the set and then graduate college um get the role in uh texed chainsaw masker that was supposed to be a two-day one-day roll of a guy on a motorcycle doesn't say anything and ended up i won't tell the whole story because it's in the book but how i got that role of wilmer and uh did that for a month and then drove with my u-hall and two thousand bucks out west to sleep on the couch of the man i met in that bar that night in 92, Don Phillips, and first two auditions I got in Hollywood, I got the job. Angels in the Outfield and Boys on the side, boys on the side, Hank McCann was the very first

audition I had in Hollywood. And I got a callback from that audition like two months later to meet with Herbert Ross and read for him. And all of a sudden, that was while I was shooting names in the outfield in Oakland. And yeah, gifted with some amazing filmmakers early on. You mentioned Herbert Ross and Schumacher and obviously Linklater. I mean, that's just, it's a combination of luck, an angel on your shoulder or what. But like you had some good.

And the best schools, the best schools, you know. I mean, look, I always say there's no, there's never been as, the most collaborative set that I've ever been on, West Day is confused. And Richard Linklater, you never heard the word, no, come out of his mouth. those actors. Look, Richard would invite me into scenes, but a lot of actors could be like, well, what's the new guy doing here? They're lobbing me lines, you know? Jason, Jason London walks out of the pool hall and somebody, parker poses, goes, where's a party tonight? And she goes, I don't know, ask wood. Patience, darn patient, you know, just kind of, they're lobbing me stuff.

And I'm just kind of rolling with it, you know? And we'd get to scenes and be like, you know, Rick would come up and go like, you know, so, you know, Wiley Wiggins is paying the young guy and, you know, he wants to go buy some beer, but we're trying to think like, Woody, he was, he'd tell me like, he doesn't know if he'd have the money for beer, but, you know, Wooderson, this guy who's working with a city, you do have some money, was Wooderson a guy who'd maybe loan the young freshman some money to go help get some beer. I'm like, yeah, Woodson's kind of been all for one, one for all guy.

He likes to party once everyone to have good time. He's like, okay, and all somebody shoot a scene where Wiley comes up and talks, and then the next thing, you know, he's over there buying the beer, repeating Wooderson lines, like, yeah, welcome for the city. So it all kind of just poetically unfolded. And that's a great genius of Rick, of letting magic happen and incorporating people in a scene where it's just like, just be yourself. Is it practical? Would you do this? He never said, this is the idea for the scene. He would always ask me, do you think Wooderson would be there? Just like he asked me in the very first scene, do you think Wooderson would be interested

in the Redhead intellectual? Yeah, whaterson likes all kind of girls. Okay, well, you know, Marissa Robisi's over here. Maybe you pull up, blah, blah, blah. It's funny, without being a kind of a kiss and tell book, you don't name names in that way. But at the same time, it feels to me, look, some of the tales may be slightly exaggerated, who knows, but it's also a very brutally honest book. I mean, like, you talk about, for instance, again, we've talked about my connoisseons, right? This is an insane run that culminates with the Oscar and True Detective and every award known to man. And you talk about, frankly, like, in the years later, like, a lot of these movies didn't do well. Like, I mean, you know, and it's, and you've been on the roller coaster a few times now.

I'm curious, like, you're at the top of the mountain, right? Yeah. For Dallas Byers Club at that, on that Oscar stage. Did having accumulated some time in the industry and seeing your friends and yourself go up and down make the subsequent years a little easier to take when like not everything worked out as much as you would have wanted? Yeah. Well, it's easier to take just being, be a big. experience. I mean, you come to learn in this industry that there's so many components that go into having something that is, one, it's a miracle to make a good movie, all right? Two, it's a miracle

to have one that actually does well and becomes a box office hit. So there's so many things that can happen. And I've continued to take chances with movies that maybe didn't have the backing to get them out there, as they should maybe, you know, that they were some, you know, I've still gone at things with a very independent spirit and really try to take even in an independent spirit to a movie like an interstellar and work with Christopher for Nolan,

who actually does work with quite an independent spirit himself. Right. Even on a big budget movie like that. There's just so many things that, I mean, you learn that it's not all on you. So if it works, great. We all want our work to translate. We want it to be shared. We want to be seen.

But if it doesn't, I'm pretty, I've learned to pretty quickly go, well, that's not why you made it. Right. You made it for the experience. You had an experience doing that role, Matthew. You loved the experience. And yeah, it'd be great if it had if it had done better and been in more screens and more people seen it. But it didn't, ah, damn it. Well, you weren't doing it for the result. You were doing it for the process. You were doing it for the love of acting and the love of inhabiting a character. So I've learned to very quickly understand that and get relative with that. that very quickly and go now it's harder if you look back and something didn't work and I look in the mirror and go I know why it didn't work and you're part of that now I've got some work to do to go okay let's unpack this we got so we got to fix something yeah well I had a lot of the things that I've done that have not worked I don't know if I was a part of it not working I don't know how if I was a part of it not working so I have a bit of a blind spot of wait a minute why did the we were all so excited we all loved it for the right reasons it felt right making it but now in

the third quarter post-production marketing release here's the table we declare would you like to eat our food and watch our movie people go nah that becomes home what's what's the gap here right in the third quarter when we go to release that something's not working that that sounds that sounds without putting movies names in your mouth that feels like a gold that feels like because I know you guys were very proud of it you love that character for instance sure that's what's what about something, I mean, I talked to you and Idris for Dark Tower, which like I was so excited for it. Had all the ingredients, right? Yeah. Is there a green light, a lesson out of that red light? That's a good question, because look, what is? You know, I got into Dark Tower. I had

been offered to come in and be a part of some other large franchises that were in that realm. Right. That were already off the ground. And I chose to say no. When Dark Tower came along, I was like, I think this is an opportunity to get in at ground level, create a character that could then become possible franchise in success. It did not. I don't know. What is the green light in that? I might have stumped you. We might have gotten. Yeah, you know what? It may come later. Sometimes these green lights come later in life. You know, there's a challenge when you're doing book that's that successful Stephen King books when you have financing and producers that have been invested and know these this is their they know these books these characters this is their

life for decades yeah there's a machine that's already moving and that machine can be a machine that can really motivate and move you hope for take the train forward to success but it's also a machine that takes away some of the individuals creating choices. So there were creative choices I want to make in that that. I many times say, okay, I'm going to hold the white flag on that one. That's a battle. I'm not going to win. Right. The train had already left the station. And it was like, well, if you want to do that, McCona, we're going to recast. And I had to think, well, maybe that's what I should do. So it's always a, it's always a combination of where do you, where do you make your own choice and go by

hook or my crook, this is what I'm doing, take it or leave it. And one of your team player. And a lot of other people give great ideas a lot. And I get great ideas from other people all the time, directors, producers all the time, and am open to those. There are many more ways than one to be right, you know, or be true. That one didn't really completely work. I discovered we share a TV show that we both grew up on. You were an incredible Hulk fan. I mean, that music still makes me like, you just have to play the same. had mournful theme that he walks away to in every episode. Your tears.

Bill Bixby. Walking down the lonely dirt road. We don't know why he's out in the middle of nowhere, wearing pants in a belt and tucked in, but he is. Some guys drive by and, hey, let's pick on the guy that's kind of short. Got his pocket protector in. Let's pick on that guy because, hey, we've got nothing else to do. We have to be driving by.

Let's look for some good Saturday fun. And he... The eyes flashed. green, you wouldn't like me when I'm angry, and then the shit hits the fan. And we're a fan going, yes, do it. So you remember he always, was it, every episode did he throw one of those

big steel oxygen tanks? Like, they showed up in every scene, didn't they? Yeah, they had stock footage, I think, of him just throwing giant metal canisters that they needed to use. No, thank you. And a lot of torn jeans they just needed to get into the wardrobe. Um, did, uh, you never got your shot at, uh, at Bruce Banner, David Banner in the show.

Did you? No, I didn't. No, I didn't. Jerks. One did it. Really? Yeah. Did you throw your hat in the ring? Did you say, I'm game if you guys are? Yep. No kidding. I would have, can't get them all, I guess. But you have, you have, you have, um, I mean, every conversation I have with actors nowadays. I mean, you were just talking about how tough it is to get films made, how tough it is to make them right. You know as well as I do, I mean, especially given the last year, who knows what the future of the film industry is, what's actually going to be in theaters outside of superhero films is, it's a little sobering. I guess, are you still teaching? I mean, I don't know in this current format, but you've been teaching the last few years that you've, yeah, yeah. You know, I mean, and a bigger question, we've been dealing with what else is going to be in theaters besides superhero films for a while. Totally.

Free COVID. Yeah. Now we have this bigger question of what's going to be in theaters. at all, period. How much is this the future? In many ways, I think we need to, and I'm not saying we need to quit the fight, I'm saying, but in many ways,

we are living in the future right now. It's going to be hard to go back. It's unrealistic to think we're going back all the way to what it was, I think. I think it's becoming, it's going to be more like the theater, don't you think? It's going to be more like an event to go to the theater.

It's not going to, I don't know. There's going to be less out there, I think. It's sad for me to say, that may be the reality. Yeah, is it a special event? Someone else talked with some of the other day. Like is it become the Cinerama Dome again where these are events that are once a month that it takes a lot to get to them and you have to get tested to get this collusion and group of people together to go watch, but it's not a it's not a nightly whenever you want to head down to the theater communal experience. I've heard that option come up as well. You end the book

with this amazing list that you dug up in the diaries of like the things things you uh the goals in your life right i mean and i mean you and i mean you checked them all off it's kind of crazy to look at i wrote that in 1992 i wrote that two i think two weeks after finishing days confused and i mean looked at it again that's a that's a that's a that's a mind lower in it blew my mind yeah so yeah go ahead well now you go ahead i i forgot or did i forget obviously i didn't forget Yeah, you manifested these clearly. You were going after them, whether you knew it or not. Do you, I'm kind of fascinated because as a planner, to go back to what we were talking about early on, and it's, you know, we talked a lot about career in this conversation, but I know obviously your life is a lot more than your career. You're first and foremost. You always want to be a dad. You're a dad. What are the goals now as you look at the next post 50 years old Matthew McConaughey. Do you think about the next iteration of life and career? And what does it look like in your head? Well, I mean, I'm definitely finding myself one of my decision-making paradigms now is, is it a legacy choice? So what's a legacy choice? Meaning a choice of what am I going to put my time? My plate's full. I'm creatively turned on. I'm happy with my relationship with my wife. I'm helping raise three young children daily. My life's full. My desk is full. If anything, I'm have to watch not over leveraging myself. But I am choices I'm making now if I'm going to be if I'm

given my time. And I don't know how to half ask things like I get invited like, hey, can we just put your name on the board? I'm like, no, not not if it's just my name. I mean, because I'm going to read that script. If you're going to make me an executive. I'm going to, I can't help it. I'm going to get into it. I'm going to read it. It's going to take up a lot of my time. I say this all the time people. Hey, well, you read my script. I go, it better be good because to read your script and give you notes takes me about eight hours. And that's a half of my day. So it better be good. Because if it's not, I'm not reading another one if you offer it up. So is this really the one you want to give me? Because I don't read. It's not me to read and take notes. It's not an hour and a half. Read.

It's eight hours. So what choices can I make now that again, I'm going to be happy a month, a year, 10 years, 20, on my deathbed with my eulogy to look back at that i can hand off to my children that they can keep alive the foundation that they can hand off to their children and they can keep a lot um so what are those things what are the choices and things i can get involved with now that will go on live in past longer than i will um some of you know is that is that movies well not always movies a capsule it does outlive the films we make and the movies we make and the art we make outlives us all. They're permanent. We're not. But I'm talking about the show that I'm interested in right now that I'm trying to challenge myself daily to chase down and be my favorite

character in is the big show, the one we're all in, life, the one where the recorder is always on, where action was set a long time ago. And cut won't be said until we're gone. That show is the one I'm like going. We got one take. There's no audition for this one. We got one take every single moment. Here we go. Wow. This is cool. Well, the themes of the book really resonate. You know, it's about red lights and green lights. The book's called green lights. I mean, this last year has been kind of a green light, I mean, a red light, rather, for all of us. We all had to take a pause. So I think there's there's a lot of lessons in here, as you say, it's not an advice book, but it is, there are some lessons to be learned from the way you've lived your life and the way you've embraced.

adventure and love and passion. It's kind of, it's, it's a, it's admirable and, um, and I just enjoyed the hell out of it, man. Uh, cool. What, I mean, one other thing before I let you go that I'm curious about, you know, your dad, um, went out in a very unique, fascinating way and he predicted it himself. Yeah. You have all these bumper sticker slogans you talk about. Have you thought about which, which one goes on the tombstone? You got a wide selection. What's, what's the last, what's the last message that Matthew McConaughey wants to impart to the universe. Oh, it's got to say something about fatherhood. It's got to say something about that I have and do feel at home in the world.

You know, I write, there's stories in there about, you know, giving a place and a person. The time, the justified amount of time. Places I've traveled, you know, we go places. literally physically we go places and we go places in our mind in our heart sometimes where we're like it gets very uncomfortable and i got to i got to pull the parachute i got abort this issue i got to get out i got to leave i got to get my ticket home this ain't for me i've taken some honor through a lot of honor through my life of going to a place and going even if i'm uncomfortable in this situation or in this relationship i want to i want to i want to really see if i can dig deep enough

to see find the green lights in it all right that are enough so that i can go okay i could live here this could be my existence and then and only then do i feel it's time it's okay to go well now i can leave thank you i highly recommend uh anybody uh curious what it's like to to live life as matthew mccaneh for a few hours or a few days to buy green lights there's a lot there's a lot of wisdom in there i had a blast with it man and as i said um i'm so honored to take up at least one paragraph in your book and part of the journey. You sure do, man. That was that.

I'm very happy to be talking to you today because, yes, you were there. And so ends another edition of happy, sad, confused. Remember to review, rate, and subscribe to this show on iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm a big podcast person. I'm Daisy Ridley, and I definitely wasn't pressure to do this by Josh. Goodbye, summer movies, hello fall. I'm Anthony Devaney.

And I'm his twin brother, James. We host Raiders of the Lost Podcast, the ultimate movie podcast, and we are ecstatic to break down late summer and early fall releases. We have Leonardo DiCaprio leading a revolution in one battle after another, Timothy Salome playing power ping pong in Mari Supreme. Let's not forget Emma Stone and Yorgo Lantamos's Bagonia. Dwayne Johnson, he's coming for that Oscar.

In The Smashing Machine, Spike Lee and Denzel teaming up again, plus Daniel DeLewis's return from retirement. There will be plenty of blockbusters to chat about two. Tron Aries looks exceptional, plus Mortal Kombat 2. And Edgar writes, The Running Man, starring Glenn Powell. Search for Raiders of the Lost podcast on Apple Podcast, Spotify, and YouTube.