Happy Sad Confused - Michael B. Jordan, Mackenzie Davis (Vol. II)

Episode Date: December 15, 2021

Michael B. Jordan is a man with a plan. He joins Josh for the first time on the podcast this week to chat about his new film, "A Journal for Jordan", being directed by Denzel Washington, his love of comics and sci fi, and what we can expect from "Creed III". Plus Mackenzie Davis returns for a quick chat about her new HBO Max series, "Station Eleven". Happy Sad Confused is also proud to announce our 3rd annual holiday benefit! On December 16th, Tom Hiddleston will join Josh for a LIVE chat at 4pm ET. This event will NOT appear as a podcast. The only way to watch and enjoy is to purchase a ticket. All proceeds go to charity! Purchase your tickets here! Don't forget to check out the Happy Sad Confused patreon here! We've got exclusive episodes of GAME NIGHT, video versions of the podcast, and more! For all of your media headlines remember to subscribe to The Wakeup newsletter here! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

D.C. high volume, Batman. The Dark Nights definitive DC comic stories adapted directly for audio for the very first time. Fear, I have to make them afraid. He's got a motorcycle. Get after him or have you shot. What do you mean blow up the building? From this moment on,

none of you are safe. New episodes every Wednesday, wherever you get your podcasts. Prepare your ears, humans. Happy, sad, confused begins now. Today on Happy, Sad, Confused, Michael B. Jordan, on his new film with Denzel Washington, plus McKenzie Davis drops by to talk about her new series, Station 11. Hey, guys, Josh Harrow, it's here with another edition of Happy, Sad, Confused, and as you can tell,

it's a packed episode this week. Two guests on Happy Sayed Confused. Davis returns. About a year ago, we had her on for Happiest Season, a much different kind of project. We'll talk about that in a second. And the main event, Michael B. Jordan, in his first happy, say I confused podcast appearance, a ton to talk about there. But again, more in that in a moment. First, some notes on things going on in my universe that you may be interested in. First and foremost, I've got to say it, the podcast benefit is upon us. The Happy Say I Confused annual holiday benefit. Everything goes to charity on this one, guys. Every single dollar. Buy your tickets now.

Me and Tom Hiddleston this Thursday, 4 p.m. Eastern Time live. Now, the good news is if you buy your ticket and you can't be there live, you'll be able to watch this on demand through December 22nd. But that's the only way you're going to be able to see it, guys. We're not putting this on YouTube. We're not putting this on the podcast channel. The only way to listen and watch me and Tom Hiddleston for an hour, and you know that's always fun and unpredictable in the best possible ways, is to buy your tickets for the happy, say, confused holiday benefit. Every single dollar goes to charity. This is a special one, guys, going to some great causes. We're going to give out some free autographed merch that Tom has been kind enough to sign. That's going to go to

random audience members. We're going to take your questions that you're submitting as we speak. It's going to be fantastic. Satisfaction guaranteed this Thursday. 4 p.m. Eastern. Join us live if you can. And again, if you can't be there live, you've got a few days to watch it on demand. A great gift for the Tom Hiddleston marble lover in your life. You know what to do. Where do you get your tickets? Well, that's easy enough. The link is in the show notes right now. Or you can go to the symphony space website. They're the ones that are kind enough to be hosting this event for us in the virtual space. But again, that link in the show notes, buy your tickets right now.

A ton of other stuff going on, guys. This is, as I said on last week's show, this is the season of Q&As and events. I got a chance to catch up with Oscar Isaac the other night. I moderated a Q&A promoting Dune. That was a blast. I hadn't seen Oscar in forever, and he is just always hysterical and fun. That was great. We've debuted our new Haley Steinfeld Comedy Central sketch.

Very happy with that one. If you haven't checked it out yet, I highly encourage you to. I put that out on my social media, or you can go on Comedy Central's YouTube page. Essentially, it's Haley Steinfeld in her mock audition for Hawkeye, and I am giving her hell as the casting director. Had a lot of fun shooting that one, and Haley's so talented and so, so funny in that sketch. What else could I mention? I feel like everything is going on. All the movies are out.

All the award stuff is out. Everyone is everywhere, and I'm just trying to keep my head above. water as we careen towards a break. The finish line is in sight, guys. I think Tom Hiddleston, the Tom Hiddleston event will be my last taping of 2021. But right now, I'm just packing it all in. I taped two podcasts today. I'm moderating another thing in a couple days. I'll tell you about that one after the fact. A lot going on. But it's all a blast. All a lot of fun. All right. So later on in the show, as I said, McKenzie Davis stopped by. This is a brief chat, but I just want to check in with her because she's got this awesome new series on HBO Max, called Station 11.

I always love talking to McKenzie. I think she is so, so talented. You've seen her in Halton Catch Fire in The Terminator film in Happiest Season last year with our buddy, Kristen Stewart, and always want to support her. So as she was getting ready for her big premiere in New York, we caught up for a few minutes, talked about Station 11, which is this really cool new show from Patrick Somerville, a very talented. writer in which McKenzie plays a woman kind of post-pandemic, actually. It's kind of bizarre how this one. So we'll talk about it, but this is a series based on a novel about the aftermath of an apocalyptic event, not really about the event itself, but about like this band of performers actually making their way in the world. And McKenzie leads this ensemble, and

it's always fantastic, and she's got great film taste, so I had to catch up with her. That's in the back end of the show. But right up front, this is a big old fun conversation with just a ginormous movie star and a good, good guy, Michael B. Jordan. It's been so thrilling to watch his star rise over the last decade. First got to know him just as he was making the transition out of television and things like Friday Night Lights into films like Chronicle. And then soon thereafter in Fruitvale Station, which really launched Michael B into the stratosphere. of course since then, Creed and Creed 2 and Black Panther and without remorse this year. It's just like every film is big and an event, you know, he's been the sexiest man alive.

He's just producing a ton. He is still on the rise and he's at the top already. So thrilling to catch up with him as he stars in the new film A Journal for Jordan. This is a film that is directed, I should say, by the great Denzel Washington. So fascinating to see this kind of, I won't say, changing of the guard because Denzel is still at the top of the game too. But to see someone like Denzel, who clearly has an affection for Michael, choose him as his leading man in this romantic drama based on a true story, really kind of a heartbreaking but sweet romance about, you know, it's not to spoil anything. If you've seen the trailer, Michael B. plays a man who passes away and has a, this really heartfelt relationship with a journalist and leaves this journal for his son in

the years to come. But this story is really not about the loss. It's really about the life that they've lived together and what he leaves his son. So it's a special piece of work. I know it means a lot to Denzel and to Michael B. And I was thrilled to help spread the good word of that project on today's podcast. But there's a lot more to talk about with Michael B. We talk about his turn at directing, which he's about to do. He is about a couple weeks away from starting principal photography on the third Creed film, which he's going to be directing. Very excited for that. He's producing his own kind of take on the Superman story with Val Zod for HBO Max. That's coming soon. We talk about that. And his comfort movie, which not so coincidentally, is a Denzel

Washington film. So tons in this conversation. As I said, McKenzie Davis, uh, towards the end of the of the chat today, but right up front, this is a big old career conversation with, um, one of the good guys. And it's good to see good guys succeed. Uh, here's me and Michael B. Michael, Mike, what's up? And what, what are you doing starting early? Who are you? I mean, hey, they're trying to get me back to Atlanta so I can get back into this creed moment. I always appreciate the time, man.

The new film is a journal for Jordan. We've felt so many times over the years, this is the deep dive, though. This is, we're podcasting today, buddy. Let's do it. Let's go. We have 35 minutes. So, as you know, I have 27 minutes of fantastic four questions. I have six minutes of Sexiest Man Live questions.

And then we'll sneak in a journal for Jordan question at the end. Sounds about, right? It sounds about Josh. Sounds about Josh. Actually. I digest slightly. Let's go back, though, to the beginning. At least the beginning of when we started to talk.

As I recall, I think I spoke to you about a decade ago, and it was right before Chronicle was coming out. And that does seem like, in retrospect, maybe a pivotal transition point for you. Take me back to that time. What do you remember about where you were at in your career? I guess you were ending Friday night lights. You were looking, you were getting into more films. What was happening in your life? Man, you're making me work, man.

I'm kind of, you're going to take me back to Chronicle right now? Hey, we're diving deep. First thing in the morning. Chronicle was, I was in South Africa shooting Chronicle. And sure, I've told you this story before. And I went to my agent at the time. I was looking for a gritty independent film. It was at a time where I was really curious about, you know,

whether or not I had what it takes to be a leading man, you know, and be able to carry a film. I wanted to, you know, yeah, I wanted an independent, you know, as a small, smaller film. And, you know, at right around that time, Ryan Coogler was writing Fruitville Station. He was looking for his lead actor. He got it to an assistant at an agency

the agency that I was at, and they got me in the script. I read it and ended up crying. It was like, you know, it was super emotional. It was exactly what I needed, you know. It was a, you know, I felt like Oscar could have been me. So I felt like it was something that I could really, you know, lend myself to and shine a light on the story, you know. And I also get off from, you know, frustration, you know what was going on with black men,

you know, in America when it came to police brutality. And, and yeah. And I thought it was a perfect project for me. And I got back, did shot the movie and, you know, and for then, it just kept rolling. We established my relationship with Ryan Coogler. You know, I think that really started taking me in a, you know, down the road, you know, Creed and Black Panther and, you know, kept rocking from there. It seems like especially in recent years, like you're not only this great actor,

but a guy with a plan, a guy with a mission statement, a guy that like knows what, what he wants. Was that always, always the case you think? Is that something you came around to as you matured or what? I think it was a, it wasn't always the case, but it's been that way for a long time. I think once I saw opportunity in, you know, there was no plan B. So you have to start to strategize a bit and start to like, you know, daydream and manifest and think about the things you want to do or if I, oh, if I ever get the opportunity, you know, oh, you know, this is how I'll do it. And I just stuck to the plan, you know, and obviously plans change and they evolve as new opportunities and situations arise. But, you know, the core of what I was trying to do kind of remain the same, you know, how do you know, watching, you know, Denzel and Will Smith and, you know, Tom Cruise and Leonardo DiCaprio, you know, watching these guys and the choices that they were making and how people were receiving them, you know,

know, and, you know, what doing a movie like this gets you into this space, you know, and give you the, you know, in this platform and, you know, not doing a movie like that and this and that. So, you know, there's a lot of examples of what not to do, very few examples of what to do. And I just always wanted to be an example or have a career where people looked at and been like, he's doing it the right way. And you're surrounding yourself with people that are doing it the right way. Denzel, your director in this is, is that rare, I mean, arguably the greatest actor alive

and also a huge movie star, what top five movie stars of the last 75 years. So that doesn't happen easily. When did you first encounter, when did you first meet Denzel? When did he sort of enter your life face to face? I think as a fan, you know, as, as, you know, he would never remember me. I was probably like 16 or something. You know, I was in New York and I met him at this event. You know, at that time I had, you know, a publicist that was doing me a favor that was, you know,

taking me around these little, you know, these events in New York while I was out here. And, you know, my rep was trying to walk over to, you know, Denzel and he ran to Denzel security. And I just remember the rep, you know, trying to explain. who I was and yeah, you know, you really would love him to meet Mr. Washington. And then he said, hold on a second, goes over there and talks, whispers in his ear. And then, you know, the kind of waves, you know, waves me over. And I go over there and shake his hand and kind of told him who I was. And he said, all right, all right, all right, all.

You know, and then that was really it. I just remember shaking his hand. And I was like, wow, his hands are so soft and moisturized. It feels like butter. I was like, man, this is Denzhen's Washington's hand. Like, this is, when you come a movie star, get hands like this. Yeah. Sinky smooth. Yeah.

You know, my hands have been feeling softer lately. I don't know. I don't know what that means, but they've been feeling quite nice. No, I was just saying, but that was my first time meeting him as a fan. And then, you know, years later, I can't really remember the first time I encountered him as, like, an adult. And like, when I, you know, had a presence. But, you know, it might have been right around Fruitville Station, you know, maybe something somewhere around there. I'm sure he took note.

Yeah. I mean, talk to me a little bit about how long, was it always this project that you guys were going to collaborate on? Did you talk about different ways? You must have been dreaming of acting with him or being directed by him or collaborating in some way. So how did this one of all projects come around? Yeah, I think the, you know, in my eyes, like the, you know, the most straightforward approach of us working together was us acting together.

You know, I was like, yeah, I want to do a movie with you one day. And that's so specific. I mean, so many things would find a right, perfect project. And then, you know, the timing has. to be just right and this, that, and schedules, and all those good stuff. So, you know, I think I did imagine that our first time working together would be actor-actor relationship. He saw me in Fruitville and was like, you know, from the stories, you know, he's told,

it's like, okay, cool, who was that kid, him and Todd Black. It's all right, who is the kid, you know, he's got something, you know, he might be perfect for, you know, Journal for George. And then, you know, and then we kind of just. And at that time, he wasn't thinking about directing the it. I think at first it might have been just producing. And then it became a directing thing over time. So, yeah.

So, yeah, it just kind of happened that way. Did you approach this kind of like with multiple purposes? Obviously, you want to like do a great job and be a great actor and just own the screen in a different kind of a film than I've ever seen you in. But at the same time, you're also like eyeing, I know you had Creed 3 right around the corner, which you're about to direct.

And you've got this master actor, amazing director. So on set of this, do you kind of have like multiple brains going of like, yeah, I'm doing my acting thing, but like I'm taking note more than ever about how this guy's directing me? Yeah, you know, it's funny because,

you know, the quarantine, the pandemic messed up everything, you know, as for everybody. You know what I'm saying? So, like, it had a plan. And then everyone's plans change. You know what I was like, I'm going to do this one. And okay, I should be finished with this one. And by that time, I got me two months. I can, you know, I can, you know, I can recover from that project. And then I'll start the prep and, you know, and transition into this one. And I'll do that one. And then shoot, you know, the, you know, journal for Jordan. And then right after that, I'd do. you know, a couple months later, I'll be able to do Crete and had that and have enough time for it to come out for Thanksgiving the following year. But that was, that was supposed to happen.

Man with a plan. Yeah, easy. Yeah, perfect. All working fine, you know, and then everything came to a screeching halt. And then I had to pick two projects, two out of three. I only had time to do two out of three. And there was no way, you know, Crete had, it was playing it firmly. And we were figuring out how we were going to get this one done.

And this one came out on top. And it was, and of course, you know, on set, and he knew I was directing right after this. So I was asking him a lot of questions about, you know, prep. And he was telling me little, like, you know, little gems here and there of what the look for, what to look out for, what you should do, how you should prep, what's going to make life easier for me. Because, you know, it's one thing to, you know, to be directed by, you know, Denzel Washington or be directed by an actor. It's another thing to be able to be directed by somebody who has also directed themselves. Totally. You know? And that was the, the X factor for me in a sense

of I there's very few people I can go to and I'd be like what's that what's that like you know you know Clint Clooney who are you going to go to yeah it's like clinton you know sly you know you got you know Ben Affleck Bradley Cooper uh you know Denzel and you know six six of those guys you know I was fortunate up to have a relationship with you know to the point of being able to pick up the phone and call and get advice and uh and Denzel definitely gave me a lot close hand so it was um yeah it was very beneficial it has been beneficial i've heard a lot of those guys talk about giving yourself enough takes don't shortchange yourself on set is that something that's come up a lot one every every one of them yeah every one of them said that and it's like it's

crazy because you naturally as an actor you want to be you know as a director you want to you want to you want to make everyone else shine you know your mind it gravity's like i'll be fine you know I'm saying, last setup. I'll be last set up. Don't worry, but I just want to make sure I get everything else. And, you know, all of them, you know, always make sure to say, give yourself enough time and takes to get your performance down. Yeah. Well, you're playing creed. You don't want a shortchange creed. That's what I guess so. That makes sense. I guess that makes sense. That makes sense, right? You played guys in the military a few times now. And I would imagine that's obviously a huge weight. You want to honor the service of the men and women in the military,

but especially your dad was a Marine. I mean, does that factor into the approach to these characters, this one, that remorse, et cetera? Yeah, a little bit. It definitely allowed me to, you know, take all the memories and the stories that he was telling me of his time when he was in the military and, you know, on the bases and just that entire experience.

You know, I have friends and other family members who served as well. So just being able to honor their. life and things that they've went through and sacrificed and be able to tell this story, a multi-layered story, not just a stereotypical. This is what a man in the military is supposed to be like. No, it's a duality there. There's layers, you know, and we wanted to portray that in this movie. How aware are you of how you're being shot? Because it strikes me when watching this movie, it takes a movie star maybe to shoot a movie star. I feel like Denzel is giving you

like the movie star treatment in this. That's good. I mean, maybe. I don't know. I don't know. I mean, uh, you know, I hope. You didn't make me look like crap. That's good. Yeah. No, but I mean, like, does that matter to you? Like, yeah, I've talked to different actors like that are totally ignorant of like where the camera is, what the lens is, whatever. Does that help you? Or do you, would you rather not know or, or what? Yeah. No, no, no. It does. In certain situations, you want to be efficient. So, like, you know, if I'm, you know, if I know, if I know the camera run like a, you know, 75 millimeter lens and the camera's, you know, 10 feet for me, more than likely

it's going to be somewhere up in here, you know what I'm saying. So I'm not going to be worried about, you know, I'm not worried about, you know, I'm not worried about my, my hands being down and what's going on in my pockets because it's never going to be seen, you know, if I'm sitting at a table and, you know, it just depends on or, and we're in a master's shot, then I know I'm, you know, from head to toe, you know, how my body posture, et cetera, et cetera, where my hands are, there's certain continuity that I, you know, I wouldn't be as concerned with in one setup than I would in another. So it's like all those little fine things that you just, just time and being on set that

you start to learn and pay attention to and just what coverage it is. So, yeah, but not to the point where it's distracting you and it's taking you out of what you're doing, you know, there's moments. You got to be able to kind of do both. both in my perspective. There's probably some actors out there who do it the same time every time. And that's their process, and that's great.

And I'm pretty sure it serves them very well. But for me, I'm able to, because I'm always thinking about things like a director would, like I'm looking at all the pieces sometimes. That's just how my brain works. So you thought I was taking you back for Chronicle. Let's go even further back. Talk to me of this.

Let's go all the way back. I'm curious. Who do you think most helped shaped your taste? in film and pop culture as a kid. Was it a parent? Was it friends? When you look back, who was the biggest influence pop culture was?

Good question. Or did you find your own way? I mean, you know, everyone has a different path. Yeah. I would say, I think my friends around me, I mean, we were, we loved basketball. I always love cartoons and animation. Always was into sci-fi.

And I think it's a mixture of, like, Like, my dad used to, you know, take me to, you know, a pool hall, you know what I'm saying? Sometimes he would take me to a pool hall and there was a comic book store right next door. And he would let me, every time I went, he would let me go in there and pick a comic book. So I would go get a comic book. And I just kind of like started building my collection from there at a young age. And then there was like a blockbuster video like right next to it. No, it was Palmer video, Palmer video and Montclair.

And then, you know, when that got shut down, it was a blockbuster video. And we used to go in there and pick movies. So, you know, my mom, my sister, like, they were always into, like, sci-fi things, you know, so I was watching what they watched and then always got into it. I think that lent itself to a lot of the comic book stuff as well. So that's where I think my foundation of those type of films and, like, the desire and love for them kind of came from. And it just started to build from there. And then as I got older, I think, I think just, I don't know, there's. I guess, watching the greats, you know, and those movies are great for a reason.

And I guess I could appreciate them. And then in hindsight, going back and then watching, you know, classic films and things of that nature and really trying to understand cinema, you know, the language of cinema, the language of filmmaking, you know, that's something you're constantly becoming more fluent at. And I'm, you know, so yeah, so I guess it's a mixture of my family, friends, and then again, find in my own way. So in terms of the sci-fi and the geek stuff, was it equal opportunity?

Was it everything? Like, was it Star Wars? Was it Marvel and DC? Was it, or the Rings? Like, give me a sense. What was the... Yeah, I mean, it's like, Lord of the Rings. It was, you know, DC Marvel, you know,

watching, you know, hocus pocus, or watching, you know, I don't know. what was the Stargate, SG-1, my sister and them, and, like, you know, Star Trek. Sci-Fi channel. Wow. Yeah, no, we were, like, that was, yeah, we were in it, you know. And then, of course, like, you know, Saturday morning cartoons. And then, you know, thank God it's Friday, you know what I'm saying.

So I'm watching all, like, I'm watching, like, that was, like, my childhood. You know what I'm saying? Like at my grandmother's house on the big, you know, floor TV set with the mini TV on top, you know, trying to hold the antenna to get it. you know, a clear picture sometimes. Like that was my kind of, that was me growing up falling in love with like TV and film and like performance. Connecting your love of film and TV and actors and we've been talking about Denzel.

I asked you for a comfort movie. You didn't go with the warm and fuzzy. You went with a pretty hardcore film, but I can see it. Tell me why you chose what you chose. Yeah, because like, you know, comfort is like, I don't, sometimes. you know like typically i wouldn't personally i i normally wouldn't watch romance movies like i just i just i wouldn't you know if it's on i'm good next you know that's just not my thing so my warming like my warm and fuzzy and comfort is like it's a man out for revenge

it's a man out for revenge with heart okay he like it's layered i just i just like multi-layered things, you know, and I love man on fire because, you know, this guy that was so selfish, you know, a broken man, you know what I mean? I obviously had a lot of regrets and tormented soul, but he found like, you know, but he had a soft spot. It was in there, you know, he just had to go through some things and meet the right people to be able to bring that back out of him, you know, a piece of him that he thought was lost forever.

And then when that was taken away that, you know, that showed him, you know, that love did that love was there, you know, that he did have, you know, feelings and heart and emotion once that thing that reminded him of his former self was taken away you know he got to do what he does best i'm gonna kill him for those that are new man on fire i don't know where you guys have been came out in 2004 of course stars denzel a very young dakota fanning written by brian helgoin directed by the great tony scott who is of course one of one of the great uh directors and a huge part of denzil's film model Um, a small note, I, I, I enjoyed the fact that I had John David Washington on the show and he

chose coming to America and you chose Denzel, Denzel movies. Yeah. Coming to America, that's, that's, that's, that's a good one. That's a good one. It's a, no, it's a classic, man. You know, rounders is another one. Oh, you know what I'm saying that I watch all the time. That's one of my favorite films, you know, I watch it, Malcovich and that just chewing the scenery.

Love it. Oh, uh, KGB's, uh, you know what I'm saying, with the Oreos, man. it was like it was so good man like i love it um yeah man it's uh for me man on fire is one movie when no matter when it's on same thing with rounders no matter when it's on i'm watching you know yeah and it's uh is there a scene that jumps out the scene that like really resonates with you is like oh if this is on i've got to watch it or i've got to stick uh for for man on fire yeah uh see the jumps out um or or tell me like now having done you know having done without remorse, kind of your own riff on that kind of thing, a new perspective.

What is Denzel doing that's so exceptional in that film that other actors, that 99% of other actors can't do? I think it's the less is more. I think in the heat of the battle and everything that's going on, I think just being like being cool, being calm and in control, and Denzel has very, very good control over his face, you know, and he's, and it's, but just enough that you know what's really going on with them. And I think that's very, that's, that's, that's, that's attractive to look at on screen, you know, I think people are, are drawn to that. And he, and he does, he does a phenomenal

job, job with it. And he's, he's, he's done so much prep and homework on the character of what he's doing that it looks effortless. It's like Merrill Street. Like, Merrill Street is so fired because she makes it look like she's not, like, it makes it look easy almost. Yeah, yeah. And, and that, and that, it's almost like a disservice because it's not, oh, And she looks, it makes it look so easy. So it's, yeah. Talk to me a little bit. Jumping way ahead in recent years,

we've talked a lot about Black Panther and your amazing performance as Killmonger. I mean, given everything you talked about growing up with comic books and all that stuff, it must have just been like the opportunity of a lifetime to be in that universe with that kind of just like, you know, you've seen all the comic movies like I have.

And there are very few villains of the stature of killmonger. Is that, is that like top three the most satisfying experiences in your career to see how it was received and just the making of it? By far. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

It's, it was the, you know, yeah, it was, I had a joke there, but I decided to let it go. It's too important to joke about, yeah. It's too many of the joke about, no. But yeah, it was,

to be able to take a character like that and make it my own as much as I could and how it spoke to the culture, you know, and the, you know, the African-American experience, you know, as a whole. And also with the vibranium and, you know what I'm saying, and it's just like just what, you know, just the fanfare of what Marvel you know, has created and like, you know, conda and it's everything,

the physicality, the action, you know, the dramatics, you know, the, it was, it was just, yeah, it was a full course meal. It was everything, it was everything, everything I wanted. I'm not going to ask you if somehow Kilmonga returns in the new Black Panther, but I'm going to ask you, I know how tight you are with Kugler, regardless of if you're an inner or not, do you know,

have you read the script? Do you know what he's got cooking for Black Panther too? I do not, man. I mean, they're, they're so, they're so, day as in Marvel um very very very you know tight they have to so as much as i am family you know i'm the deranged cousin that they won't let in let let in that let in the family barbecue right now they're all you did for these guys you're not ringing up are you texting cougar like what come on slide it in here somehow like what's yeah yeah man i gave up i gave up i gave up on trying to pressure coo coog's a bolt man he's really he really is he's like i think

I think once you become a director, you know what I mean? You kind of cross over and you know, Marvel, it's like you just build this like, I don't know, man. It's like, it's this thing that you just. Yeah. Well, they must just be used to it. Yeah. Yeah.

Well, that'll be good. You'll enjoy it as an audience member just like you'll experience what it's like for a lowly Josh Harrow is to experience one of your movies. No, exactly. I mean, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a somehow get some intel. I'm going to get some information. He hasn't given up yet, guys. I just been preoccupied.

It's been a little. distracted with some other some other things, but when I get back to it, I'm going to figure some stuff out. Have you started shooting, Creed? No, you start top of the year. So I'm just in prep. We're right now tech scouting and and going to choreo, just all the all the stuff. I'm trying to learn all the fights as quickly as I can so I can split my brain up and take care of the other stuff because so much time. has been putting into rehearsals, the choreography, and, you know, memorizing the fight so we can, we can get that stuff done.

But since, yeah, the goal is to get physically in shape and get the choreo down as quickly impossible, so I can just go focus on everything else. Do you view this as the end of a trilogy, or is it like, I mean, I could, you know, in this world where, like, cinematic universes are ripe, do you view the Creed franchise as something that can expand further? and would you produce and be a part of kind of seeing what other stories there are in that in that world? I think it definitely has the, you know, the potential and the right pieces to be something that can continue to grow. You know, there's, it's a rich IP and, you know, I want, yeah, I can't say this is the last of creed, you know, it might be different versions.

It's got some cool stuff for you guys, man. Just know I've been, I've been, I've been, I've been daydreaming about this opportunity for some time. And I've, you know, like you said before, you know, anybody knows me, you know, I got somewhat of a plan. So yeah, there's, I got some stuff cooking. You got Jonathan Majors in this? You still, I mean, you're surrounding yourself again with, with talents. Was the part kind of catered to him or vice versa? He just knew like when like, I don't know, a lot of a saw him in last black man in San Francisco.

and it's like, oh, this guy's got something really special. Yeah, man. No, he's so, so, so good, man. He, he, you know, naturally it, you cater to the guy you have, you know what I'm saying? You naturally, as you're going through these scenes and you're working on the dialogue and tone and temperature. And then, you know, you have your, you know, you have your muse and you're like, okay, cool. You start to bend things, you know what I'm saying, that that complements, you know, the strengths, but also places to push him further, you know.

And as an actor, you know, I try to present things to him and create an environment that I will want for myself. Yeah. So, and we vibed as soon as we met and we started talking and we were on the same page and he's a beast, man. He, uh, I'm blessed and lucky to have him. So, so, yeah, we go, we're going there with a mission, you know what I'm saying? Yeah.

And I, and ask to go do something, do something we're really. really proud of. Have you retired from auditioning? When's the last time you had to audition for a role, Mike? So auditioning's changed. It's not really like, it's not, it's not an audition per se. It's more or less like a meeting and conversation about a project. You know, it's more or less like a, you know, does the director and I have the same,

you know, or do we want the same things? Am I right for the role? He's filling me out, you know, you know, am I the right guy for the project? So no, I don't technically audition anymore. Thank God. But that part of me, that that era of auditioning created the monster. You know, created like just this, this, this, you know, this hunter mentality. Yeah.

You know, I got to, you know, I got going to win this role. I got to go, I got to go in and grab it. So as you kind of get to the point where you're not doing that anymore, it's like, wow. okay it's like it feels earned absolutely yeah and it feels it feels it feels it feels earned um but the last time i mean i can't i can't remember the last time that's a good sign yeah but but you know i've had some generals late you know not lately but a few years ago and um yeah was there an additional way back when that you thought was going to change your life that didn't pan out?

Was there one that was like, okay, I think I nailed it. I think this is going to be the one. There must have been a dozen of those or three of those or something. There's one stamped out. Yeah, it was a, I'll tell this. I'll tell us, yeah, there's one. I mean, there's a few, you know what I mean? But I'll tell one because it's about a friend dear to me, you know,

42. Yeah. Chadwick, my brother, you know, so it was, you know, audition for it, you know, a few callbacks, Vicky Thomas, same casting director for Jennifer Jordan, and, and her old office, I'm sure she said, same office, but, you know, the wall. were so thin, actually her old office, your walls were so thin that you can hear the audition, you know what I'm saying?

I don't know. And whenever you go into, and that's, it's kind of typical. It's common, you know, when you're auditioning in certain places. I'm casting directors that,

for whatever reason, they just seem to pick the places with the thinnest walls. And I don't know. It's the mind games. They're trying to get into it. That's what I'm saying, right? Because you're in there,

you know, you got the script, you're reading and you hearing somebody else in it. Oh, man, he's killing it. I sound, that sounded pretty good to me. You guys should really hire Chadwick,

He's awesome. Yeah, yeah. No, like, just whoever, like, if you're in another, like, audition or whatever, and you're hearing somebody in there, just knocking up an audition out the party, say, oh, wow, he said like that. I didn't even think about it like that. That was really good. Like, oh, man.

Yeah, it's like, but, um, but when, 42 had, had, had some good auditions, you know, I got some callbacks, whatever, made it down to the final, however many, um, and, uh, and at the time, I just knew that if I got this really, you know that if I got this real, you know, I got this role, it was going to change everything for me. You know, I knew it was going to like, you know, playing Jackie Robinson, a buddy of mine, Eric Amadio, he, you know, he's a writer, and he, um, he, uh, we went to this baseball diamond and we took photos of me. I went and got an old Dodgers jersey from Dodgers Stadium and, you know, and the Dodgers

hat. I got a bat and I went and took a minute and replicated old Jackie. Robertson photos, I took, you know, we took a video of me like sliding, you know what I'm saying, stealing bases and stuff like that. We sent that into the casting director. I mean, you know, as, as hungry as you're going to get, you know what I'm saying, as far as going to extra mile. You knew. Yeah. I did everything. I got to get it, you know what I'm saying? But, you know, obviously it wasn't for me. It wasn't in my car. And they found the perfect person for it, you know, like I can't imagine anybody playing a role. I couldn't imagine myself now playing that role,

you know um and uh in in in chadwick put on a had a performance you know that a you know of a lifetime so uh yeah it worked out last thing for you buddy um you know i i've joked with you and i've prodded you about the superman stuff but we do know that balsad is now in development and you are producing this you may or may not appear i know we don't know that yet but talk to me about why that's the way in why you're passionate about balsad and where it stands and are you contemplating acting in it. Balzad is such an interesting character. You know, it's like an untapped, you know,

you know, well. You know, he's such a gym that's been sitting in plain sight for a long time and somebody else always wondering. I was like, why nobody seemed to pick that guy up and turn it into something because he's such a rich character and connects to a lot of other things as well. If you're familiar with the canon. And, yeah, it really excited me that I was able to kind of, you know, get that project and, you know, develop it and tell a side that hasn't been shown before, the side of the universe that hasn't really been shown before.

And, you know, D.C. and Warner's and HBO Max, you know, they believed in it, too, you know, and they, and they, and they, They felt that was the guy to develop it, you know, Outlier Society was the, was the production company to develop it and make this, make this thing. So I'm super excited about it, you know. Can't say too much about it. But, but I'm going to, I'm trying to make it the best thing that's come out of there. You know, that's, that's always the goal. You're striving for greatness, you know, and I'm, I'm going for it.

No doubt, buddy. Thanks for making the time today. I appreciate that as the years have gone by, as you rise through the ranks and tower over all of us, you make time for the little guys like me that have been on the ride with you, buddy. Congratulations on a journal for Jordan. And hopefully we'll catch up soon in person, buddy. Thank you, Josh. Appreciate it. Happy holidays, man. Stay soon. you too. Why look, it's McKenzie Davis, my birthday twin, my death becomes her friend. It's good to see you. How's it going? It's good to see you. Short interview time. Yeah, yeah. Well, look, people know the legend of McKenzie Davis by now. They don't need the whole long. No, I didn't mean not enough of an intro. I mean, I spoke to you just one year ago. It's nice. This is our annual check-in. This is like a psychiatrist's visit. So how's your head at? Where's your head at? You doing all right? Oh, my God, I can't get into it.

That's the wrong place to start a podcast like that. Thank you. All right, we'll circle back at the end and see where you're at. Yeah, great. I'll have you know not to name drop right from the start, but I hosted a couple events this week with the one and only Meryl Streep, and I had to stop myself from just gushing about Beth Becomes her, because that's all, that was truly in my heart that I wanted to talk about, but, you know.

And I think what makes you such an interesting actress, which I don't know if there's, we probably talked about this last time, but, like, there just aren't that many, like, big, sort of broad, campy things to do anymore. And she's, like, the greatest living actress that does Sophie's choice, death becomes her, Mama Mia. Like, she's so cool. You'll be happy to know. I don't have you seen the new Adam McKay movie? Don't look up. No, I can't wait to see it.

She's pretty, she goes pretty big. She's, uh, yeah, it's, it brought me back to my, my love of her comedy roots. Do you, so have you, do you do the Chris Farley fan girl thing with anybody? Do you ever go up to somebody and say, oh my God, I love you and this? I love you in this. Or have you learned its best not to do that kind of thing? I don't probably almost to a degree that it's like stupid because whenever people do it to me,

I'm like, oh my God, that's such a surprising way. Like, it's so nice to hear it. I never think about doing it. I always think it would be a burden. I did it to somebody who I like love. love, love once where I was like not working with them but was near their set and somebody introduced me to them. And I was like, oh, this movie and I watch it all the time and it's meant the world to me and spoke to it spoke. And then she was like, oh, my God. Oh,

yeah, I think that's like still on TV. That's so funny. All right. Well, thanks. Nice to meet you. And she was so lovely, but you just, your experience as a fan is not the experience of the creator. That's just like a chapter in their life. And then they moved on to the other chapters. But, you're like, no, no, shut up. That was a very special to me. Echo back my experience now. Validate me. Give me this now. Well, the reason that we're catching up today is a good reason, a little bit different than the last time we spoke about happiest season. This is a little bit of a different project. I'm trying to remember the sequence of events, because I remember talking about this project with you, but had you shot anything or you were about to shoot Station 11?

We were about to shoot. They had started shooting in the winter, January, February 2020. And then obviously the pandemic happened. We were put on hiatus. And then we came back to shoot in January of 2021. So when you and I talked, it was still about to happen. So give me a sense because this is obviously one of these bizarre, weird circumstances where you sign on to a project about post-apocalyptic, massive flu that wipes out tons of humanity and then you turn on the news and you're living the real world and you're like, oh my God, what have I signed on to? Like your perspective on this must have changed drastically. Did you still have the same passion for it after seeing what COVID was and seeing what the real world was that you had? Did you come at it from a different angle or what? I think at first while we were, you know, living through it in real time that summer, I was

sort of not sure if it was relevant anymore, like something moving from speculative fiction into like pseudo-documentary. I don't know. It just felt like, ugh, who's going to want to watch this show? And then when we were actually shooting it, it's obviously not at all about the event of a pandemic. It's about everything afterwards, which none of us have experienced in a way, in the same way that we watched contagion in the beginning of the pandemic to find a roadmap for what this was going to look like, I think this is the sort of counter-narrative, not to the like horror and the trauma of trauma, but the roadmap for what could happen afterwards, were we to have gone through something as bad as the Georgia flu in our show,

which we haven't. But you know what I mean? That there's like a, that's the sort of day zero roadmap. And then we're like, all right, well, this is the year 20 roadmap for how we could kind of survive after a plague. And I watched the first few episodes. It It was actually a while back, so I'm trying to remember. But I feel like your character doesn't even pop in or your version of the character until episode two, right? So give me a sense. So, yeah, as you alluded to, we encounter your character,

as played by you, years later, after the events of this. And this is the world she grew up in. This is the world that she knows. So that's a very unique kind of character to discover. Was that part of the interest of Kirsten to play a woman who's been raised in a very unique fashion or what? I don't know. It's weird.

I'm usually really sort of like logical about what interests me about a character. Like I can really sort of understand their internal logic and what they're doing and why they're doing it and like finding my way through that feels in whatever world feels really compelling to me. This is the only thing I've done, which I didn't feel at the time, but I do in retrospect, where it feels like kind of, like, I don't know why I did it. Kind of like faith driven. There was something, there was like a really beautiful version of a world that Hero and Patrick described to me. And I was moved by, I don't know, people like searching. each other and searching for like connection and I don't know there are all all these things that that move me in real life and really moved me in the show but I didn't I don't know what it was

about Kirsten exactly it just felt like um I felt kind of I just did it yeah well when in doubt as you well know surround yourself with talented folks and you alluded to a couple here a hero an amazing director um Patrick Patrick Somerville who just have to look at the credits like made for love which I I thought was a really cool show, Leftovers, Maniac. Like, these are all, like, big swing, weird, out there, but, like, very singular visions for television. Yeah, and that's sort of what you want, right? Like, to work with people who are going to do things that might not work,

but at least they're, like, sort of jumping into the deep end. Absolutely. Go for the big swing. Always. Who wants a double? Go for the home run or go, yeah, or strike out. This is, is this your first TV? since Hulton Catchfire? Yeah, I guess Black Mirror, but that felt like sort of a little movie.

But yeah, this is the first, like, long thing. So any different perspective on it a few years later? I mean, obviously, Holton Catch Fire is a special experience. And I feel like, by the way, that was one of those shows. I don't know if you experienced this, but like one of those shows that a lot of people revisited or rediscovered for the first time over this weird year and a half.

I've certainly talked about it a lot on this, as I've been doing press and talking about Station 11 and I yeah maybe that's it I mean you don't know it's on Netflix so there's no like yeah I don't learn when people watch it it just is right you know always there waiting for someone to discover it um but in turn you yeah you go no I was going to say were you looking for like specifically for a project that was like of an ongoing like nature that was a little bit longer form or no it was just the right the right fit oh not at all I don't think there's like huge difference between TV and movies anymore. It's not like, ooh, do I want to do a TV show?

I think it's like, oh, it's seven years and it might shoot somewhere really far from home. Is that like, do I love this enough to potentially commit that much of my life to it? Then yeah, it's different. But for a mini series or something, it's just, you know, Terminator shot in six months, this shot in six months.

Like it's time spent somewhere exploring something a long sort of patient way. But no, I wasn't specifically looking for for TV, but very happy to do it again. It's cool TV. You get to like experience things in real time that you then remember later in the season that you're like, ooh, that actually happened to me. It's like a real memory that I went through, but it happened to the character. But I was also there because I was insider and that's less work for you. Yeah. It's honestly, it's just, just a huge peak and it's so nice. It's hard to catch it all.

Have you been watching a lot lately? Have you been catching up on some of your friends? Look, Lee Pace, speaking of TV, Foundation, Kristen Stewart killing it. Beautiful. I don't have an Apple membership. I'm like, there's so many things to become a member of. I had a free trial and then it expired and then, I don't know.

Yeah, it looks beautiful. And Lee is such a great actor. What about Spencer? Check out, Kristen, and that? I haven't seen Spencer, but I'm so excited. This happens to me every year with, like, Oscar movies, where I'm so, so excited, and then they come out, and then I kind of miss the window when I should see them, and then, like, at some point in December, I watched seven. I know. I'm so excited, and she's so amazing in everything she does,

but just watching the trailers, right? She's incredible. No, yeah, you will not be disappointed. just the even setting aside, you know, friendships. It's a, it's a piece of art. It's a really cool. Cool. So have you seen anything lately? Anything that's peak your interest? No, nothing. What do I see? I saw Dune, which I just loved so much. Team Deney. We know that you didn't know that you. Team Dene. Yeah, very meditative movie. Couldn't love it more. I watched, which I'd only seen on my computer before, but I watched Salo on Thanksgiving in the movie theater. And it was so wonderful and beautiful and harrowing, but really love the colors.

And I watched Bond. I don't know. I've been watching a lot of succession and just eating it up like every other hungry little viewer. I know. I haven't seen one in this new season yet. I have a binge coming at me soon. As you said, it's too much. Yeah, yeah. What have you been watching? Like I said, I've been catching up on movies. I saw Don't Look Up. up with our beloved Merrill. I can't even think. I haven't watched a TV show outside of yours for work and others like in a while just because it's, you know, it's the fall movie season.

It's all the good stuff that we're excited about. What's up? You're going in the movie theaters? I am a little bit, a little bit. It's pretty cool. So I notice that you're usually for somebody that's always working on the IMDB. I'm unaware of your future exploits mechanics. Are you secretly like, you know, Captain Awesome and Avengers 7 and I just don't know it yet? Like, what's happening?

No, there's no big drop. I have like a couple indie movies that I'm doing next year. But, you know, it's always sort of like jockeying for time and financing. It's quite hard to know. So I'm like, whichever one goes first, that's the one I'm going to do first. But I'm really, really excited about all of them. And I don't know. I'm like making. it sound really secretive but it's just they're not saying it but they're great we know we know from past discussions and this one that you have good taste so trust in mackenzie's judgment and her talent and everybody should check out station 11 HBO max and um mackenzie's off to a swanky low-key soiree for her her show um enjoy yourself and i hope to catch up in person one of these days okay thanks so much josh thanks for watching And so ends another edition of happy, sad, confused. Remember to review, rate, and subscribe to this show on iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts.

I'm a big podcast person. I'm Daisy Ridley, and I definitely wasn't pressured to do this by Josh. The Old West is an iconic period of American history and full of legendary figures whose names still resonate today. James, Billy the Kid, and Butch and Sundance, Sitting Bull, Crazy Horse, and Geronimo, Wyatt Earp, Batmasterson, and Bass Reeves, Buffalo Bill Cody, Wild Bill Hickok, the Texas Rangers, and many more. Hear all their stories on the Legends of the Old West podcast. We'll take you to Tombstone, Deadwood, and Dodge City, to the plains, mountains, and deserts for battles between the U.S. Army and Native American warriors, to dark corners for the disaster of the Donner Party,

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