Happy Sad Confused - Michael Fassbender

Episode Date: August 11, 2014

Michael Fassbender hides his face in “Frank” but bares all to Josh in this conversation touching on “Macbeth”, his love of “Silver Spoons”, and why he struck up a conversation with Martin Scorsese at a urinal. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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See Golden Nuggett Casino.com for details. Please play responsibly. Hey, guys, welcome to another edition of Happy, Sad, Confused. I'm Josh Horowitz, and welcome to my podcast. This week's episode is one of the finest actors working today, without a doubt. I'm so pleased that this one worked out. Michael Fastbender is the guest on Happy Sad Confused this week. Michael is in such a zone as an actor, and you just feel like everything is clicking for him. He's in the new movie, Frank, which is an odd kind of black comedy in which Michael plays

the entire film, virtually the entire film, in a giant paper mache mask head. He's part of a rock group with Maggie Gyllenhaal and Donald Gleason in the film. And it's a really cool, interesting piece of work that you guys should definitely check out. It's another awesome performance from Fastbender who obviously has killed it in things like 12 years of slave and shame, not to mention the X-Men films. So I'm really not going to say much more except that. It was such a pleasure to catch up with him. He's a smart guy.

He's a guy with a wry, fun, sense of humor, and he's always cool to catch up with. He was in New York doing a bit of press, including a performance on the Colbert Report, which you guys should definitely check out. No singing in this one, but just good conversation. As always, hit me up on Twitter, guys. Let me know what you think. At Joshua Horowitz with the hashtag, happy, sad, confused. and no more preamble.

Let's just dive right in. A really cool, fun conversation with the man of the hour. This is his time, Michael Fastbender. In the spirit of the film, I feel like, for the podcast audience, we should explain our facial expressions as we go. Welcoming smile. Welcoming smile. Tired, satisfied.

After breakfast, look. Nap-needed. look. Power nap on the way. Power nap 20 minutes away, look. 30. I'm sorry. They didn't tell you. 30. It's a different kind of press tour this time around.

I mean, I love the Colbert performance. It was amazing. You also don't get, the last time I saw you, you were with your buddy McAvoy, and I feel like, man, from my perspective, anybody's perspective, talking to you guys, it was like, I felt like it was the Macavoy FastBender show, and you were just along for the ride when you guys were together. It's an interesting dynamic. That's cool. Yeah, you know, just, it's lucky, you know, that James and I just sort of, you know, hit it off really and got so much respect for him and, you know, care for him as a person outside of the profession, but just working with him as well. It's just so easy, you know, and it's a, you know, it was very lucky because, you know, part of the X-Men franchise together, you know, would be, it would be awkward if we didn't get along. You're masking it well, if you are. Yeah, exactly. So, no, he's great. Hopefully you're going to catch up with him soon.

I know he was going to do another motorcycle track day pretty soon. Is that a bonding point for the two of you? Well, no, we've never actually gone together, which is the shame of it. He did a track day a couple of weeks before I did, and I just did it, I don't know, two weeks ago or so. Yeah. So we're both sort of like our motorcycles and I guess. We're both like speed and adrenaline-charged sort of things. Do you travel around by motorcycle?

You could do one of those Ewan McGregor long way around joints. Yeah, I did do 5,000 miles through Europe with my dad back in 2010. Oh, wow. And so we took about six weeks and went on the road. That was pretty cool. That's awesome. Yeah, it was amazing. So looking back, you and I, I think the only point that we share in common is that we're virtually the same age.

I'm 364 days older than you, Michael. So you evaded April 1st by a day. I'm an April Fool's birthday boy. I actually evaded it by half an hour. I think I was born 1230 just after midnight. On the second, my dad was telling my mom to hang on. I would have liked to be an April Fool, actually. I don't know if you would.

I've lived it. I don't know. I think it's great. Yeah? Yeah. A lot of jokes. Sure, but like, you know, that day, you know, at least, you know, It's a prankster day, and you can enjoy being the prankster.

That's true, that's true, yeah. You just have to get the better, you know, April fools on people, exactly. But that's pressure. After 38 years, man, I'm, he's probably going to want a year. You've got a year to work on it. What, um, so I'm curious, since we're roughly the same age, I'm curious, like, what the cultural touchstones were for you growing up. Were you watching the same TV and films that I was?

Like, what were you? Probably. I mean, because, well, Well, in Ireland, at that point, well, down in the countryside anyways, we only had the two channels. It was RT1 and RT2. Right. And we got a lot of American programs. So it would be like Knight Rider, Chips, the A-Team, you know, all of those sort of shows,

Heart to Har, Magnum, Pi. So you were into The Hour Long? Did you do the sitcoms? Were you doing like the Alps and the Silver. spoons and different strokes and all of those as well absolutely um silver spoons what was the one is what was the one where he drove around rickie schroeder and that's silver spoons that was silver spoons yeah yeah and um yeah so we got all of that we didn't really get a lot of english programs that was on sort of obviously the english channels which you could get if you lived in dublin

right um or you know i used to see bits and pieces when i went up to visit my relatives in the the north of Ireland, but mainly American programs. What were the, because I feel like for any, like, cinephile from my perspective, or obviously from your perspective, I know you're both a film lover and obviously a practitioner, but, like, there's a shift usually in a childhood when you, like, you know, were enjoying, like,

the 80s schlock, I'm sure you and I were enjoying kind of like all those, like, action movies and stuff. But at a certain point, like, I remember, like, watching the Godfather films on those double VHS sets and, like, then going hardcore into everything, Coppola. Do you remember kind of like a demarcation moment where you kind of like went from movie lover to kind of film? Film lover. It kind of happened at the same time really. I mean, obviously sort of, you know, was always watching films. But I think around the age of 15 or

16 really kind of started to approach it with more of a sort of, I don't know what the, I just started to see it differently because I got introduced to those films from the 70s and American films from the 70s really was the main sort of launching pad for me to sort of getting into acting and sort of realizing that this is what I wanted to do. It kind of coincided in a weird way. I didn't, I just started getting into these films. And then at the same time, a past pupil of the secondary school that I went to, the high school that I went to came back and started doing these drama and comedy classes. So they both kind of happen to the the same time my mom introduced me to a lot of those films so really to be fair to her she was the

one that kind of introduced me to Coppola and Scorsese and then the earlier films you know Montgomery Clift and sure and then some you know the Kazan films with the Brando and but it sort of happened around the same time and then I was you know became very obsessive about it very quickly yeah I would think you've had a chance I'm obviously through like the parties in the award circuit and all that thing to meet some of those early heroes too i mean have you have you talked to like a coppola a scorsese and do you are you able to suppress the 15-year-old version of yourself that would go insane yeah i don't think i really can't suppress that 15-year-old most of the time it's uh it's kind of embarrassed it's got me in some embarrassing

scenarios but um yeah no i did meet scorsese which was amazing um we actually had a conversation at the urinal, which was a... Wait, who started the conversation? I think I did, yeah, I'm very sure I did. Those embarrassing stories you were just referring to 20 seconds ago? Yeah, exactly. But I met him sort of previously at another event, so I was just like, sort of, you know,

I was just reminding him of that at the urinal. And it was pretty funny. It was one of those moments to remember. That's tricky because he's shorter than you, so it looks like you're staring down at him and that could be because of crude. You know, sneaking a peek. Hence, while you haven't been in a Scorsese film yet, apparently.

Yeah, yeah, exactly. I actually just watched Casino on the flight over here again, which I hadn't seen for a while. I feel like it got a short trip at the time because it felt like on surface to be a Goodfellas retread, but in years since, now it's an amazing film. It really is. It's an excellent piece of filmmaking. And, yeah, he was a massive hero for me, Mean Streets. And then, of course, you know, well, we all know his repertoire.

But, yeah, Mean Streets was a big, big influence of me around that time as well. And then a couple, of course, you know, Conversation, Godfather, which arguably would be my favorite film, actually. Godfather? Yeah. Yeah, you look at that three-year period he had, what was Godfather, Conversation, Godfather, too. And it's absurd to think about that he, he had two, I think two of those were nominee for best picture in the same year, literally. It's amazing. Yeah, and also the fact, you know, that he was cultivating zoetrope in that whole cadre of, yeah, and, you know, I think was such an influence on Lucas and all the guys that were coming up through and they really kind of did look at him as the sort of godfather of this new movement. So yeah, absolutely how, you know, amazingly influential he was. And I remember him saying, you know, back in, I think around the time,

Apocalypse now, you know, the future of filmmaking is some girl that picks up a camera in Iowa and she can make a film. And that's what we've got now. You're absolutely right, yeah. You know, I think, you know, the only thing that's stopping that girl getting the film out there is the distribution, you know. But in terms of making a movie, it's never really been easier to do than now. You mentioned, I mean, looking up to people, I was reading an article with Tom Hardy, and you guys went to the same drama school, correct? That's right, yeah. He talked about actually you at the time being the guy that he, and others we're looking up to as like kind of like who is who had the stuff.

I'm very flattered to hear that. I, you know, I remember Tom, well, I believe that I was in the third year and he was in the first year. And, you know, you could see that he was just very hungry then. And, you know, he was, I think he, yeah, he was out of the school, I think, in his first year. And we ended up doing Band of Brothers together. Sure. That was my first TV show, and then Tom really accelerated fast from there. It took me a while longer to get off the ground, but he just kind of, yeah, he just sort of came out of the blocks. Though one could argue, I mean, he's talked about this, you know, extensively, obviously he had his troubles,

and he kind of, the way he's kind of brought himself back and turned his career back around where he's now killing it. I mean, is remarkable. Absolutely, yeah. He shows this fortitude of spirit. His personal life, absolutely. But, you know, I remember he came out of Band of Brothers and he got that Star Trek Nemesis movie, you know, pretty much straight away. So it's pretty phenomenal.

Was it an eye opener for you? I mean, I've heard you talk about this before because, yeah, Band of Brothers, you know, it's going a little ways back. And I know you came out to L.A. and probably did a lot of auditioning. Were you, was that a wake-up call at the time to realize, okay, it's not going to be despite being in a Stephen Silver produced HBO prestige project maybe I've got some more work to do um well I yeah there was a lot of buzz around the fact you know that we were in band and brothers and so you know for the first I think you know a few months

after we'd finished rapping you know it was it was pretty exciting you know to and to be able to say I'm in band and brothers but then I think there was an honest onslaught of about 30 guys that were saying they were in Vander Brothers and it was like, you know, the novelty kind of wore off, but it was an exceptional thing to be part of for me. I mean, I felt so, so, and I still do feel very privileged to be playing real life heroes, number one, to, to, you know, especially the guy, you know, that I was playing. Obviously, we all feel, feel, you know, close and have a closer affinity to the characters where we play, but, but. Pat Burton Christensen and was a pretty extraordinary guy so to have the opportunity to play him number one and then just to work with that bunch of people and to see

the production you know value of that and the sort of efficiency and the passion and basically you know the huge team in place working together to make this come to the forefront it was incredible

Did you go through a period of kind of like doing your right of passage of the big Hollywood auditions at the time? And do you look back at that? Yeah, I think that went on for about, you know, after Band of Brothers, I was 22 when I did that. I think, you know, I was then very sporadically working like six months. I'd get a gig. Another six months later, I'd get it, you know, two days on a TV thing. And it kind of went like that for about five years. And I was working in and out behind the bar and various different jobs.

And then at about 27, I remember I didn't have to do other jobs to make a living. That's a turning point. That was, yeah, absolutely. I was like, you know, I kept saying, I was like, you know, just to get, you know, be jobbing, I'm good enough to be working, I'm good enough to be working, I'm good enough to be working, I'm good enough to be working. Aren't I? Am I? You know, so, yeah, and then, you know, since 30, the last seven years have been, It's been amazing.

It's been incredible. It's also interesting because, you know, I've talked to a lot of actors who talk about, like, the reality of the situation is, you know, a lot of journalists ask people, why did you choose this role, et cetera? And frankly, for a lot of actors, there's not much choice. They're taking kind of what's available because they are jobbing actors and they're just trying to make a living. You're in, frankly, a very privileged situation in the last couple of years where you're

going to work with insanely talented filmmakers, and you do have choice. And I would think, I don't know. I wonder if there's, like, a pressure. and like, oh, my God, this is what I always dreamed of, but now it's all on me. Now I actually have to, not only do I have to deliver, but I have to make the right decisions. No, you know, I kind of, again,

I learned a lot doing hunger, working with Steve, you know, this idea of like, you know, listen, you know, we're all going to die, and it's like, yeah, I work hard prepping something, and I really, when we're filming it, I hope that I leave everything on the floor at the end of the day. And then, you know, I will walk away. I mean, like, I remember,

I waited, you know, long enough to be in this position. So when it happened, I was like, I'm ready. I'm ready for this, and I'm going to work hard. And I realize how lucky I am to be in this position because it wasn't there before. So I'm not going to abuse it and be lazy. So the worst thing for me is if I walk away from a day's work and I was like, you know, I made a mess of that

because I didn't put in the work. Right, not because of the wrong choice, but just... Yeah, because that's going to have, you know, it's impossible. Well, maybe it's not impossible, but for me, to get, you know, to even any day to get it right, you're always striving to do the best. But I'm never going to reach what I wanted to get, but hopefully you get closer or something that's acceptable. But also, it's really, I think for me, very important not to get stifled by that idea of,

oh my God, this has to be a success or this has to be a success. right you know i'm i want to stretch things learn take risks do things that excite me and hopefully are i you know other people find them interesting stories but i don't want to you know i'm not going to get stifled by the fear of right something not working or you know have i made the right choice here once i make a choice i go for it and then it's like there's no regrets it's it's you know move forward try and learn i find like sometimes i'm a little bit like a mouse that keeps going back electrocuting himself. I don't really know do I learn that much

patterns of behavior. That does speak to, obviously, the choice to do a film like this because, like, on the Hollywood guidebook, it wouldn't say, you know, do this small, quirky, black comedy, paper mache wearing, mask wearing, mask wearing, character at this time,

certainly this time in your career. And yet... Yeah, but the Hollywood guy, I think, you know, the one thing that I've learned about films is there are no rules. Yeah. And what was, you know, something that was unacceptable at one point is the norm now or a formula that did work before just doesn't work anymore

you know you write your own rules I think and just got to stay true to what my gut tells me and when I read this script you know for the first time I was like what is you know like I say it was like I was like why is this this is totally bizarre and just

really refreshing and like I say had me laughing and then had me sort of you know um reaching for the Kleenex I know so so you know it's it's those sort of things that you want to get out of a story I guess did you feel a little helpless in that mask because the physicality is is fascinating to watch especially on stage there's almost like a little kind of like a stiffness you know in a way to his performance but then at other times offstage Frank kind of needs the assistance of others to even like manage yeah I think you know that's exactly what you say is stiffness and then a sort of also a confidence that reverts back into an introverted character that becomes extroverted that goes back you know i was always

trying to stretch with that and play with that elasticity of of of an extrovert and an introvert and um somebody that could be quite confident and sort of um um sure and then in all of this in the body language and then somebody who is very unsure and like you said almost like an invalid at times that needs to be sort of you know guided around and a dependency and then an independence you know there's lots of things that I was trying to sort of flip and play with you know with this idea of like a really extreme bipolar case you know in there so like by the time he gets to south by south west he's worked himself so high and the euphoria is there just before the crash yeah so yeah absolutely the

physicality was it's always important for me when I'm sort of you know trying to get into a character try and find how they move if they're a farmer they move a certain way if you sit at an office desk all day you move a certain way hold yourself a certain way but this time I you know I just had to amp it up and dial it in a little more because the the expression of state of mind or a emotional state was coming from the neck down right so he's also got a very sweet sad scream by the end yeah yeah that was like something that your actual scream yeah i just wanted to get something that was really primal and sounded like an animal almost that sort of some you know that you know you know i always remember sort of growing up um down we we grew up in the countryside and there

was lots of rabbits around the area that i grew up and there was also stoats which are like weasels And I remember whenever a stote would catch a rabbit, that was the sort of sound. It was a high-pitched sort of scream. And just reminded me of that. I thought, you know, for that moment for Frank, you know. It's a shock to the system. It's kind of... Yeah, it's like paralyzing.

It's like, you know. Recent guest of the podcast here was Daniel Radcliffe, who has talked to me and with others at length about the Fast Bender test. Have you heard about this? Yeah. I was, again, deeply flattered and sort of, yeah. So you have integrity, apparently, in the eyes of others. That's a good thing. That's great.

I mean, that's great. Hopefully, you know, it'll last. Yeah, no, I was, like I said, very sort of humbled by that, sweet. Dude, you got a bit of attention, ironically, for withdrawing a little bit the last, quote-unquote, award season. I mean, was that too much made of that? I mean, did you get turned off by the kind of glad-handing of a couple years back and, or was it just sort of, I mean, you were also working. I think you were doing Macbeth at the time, right? Yeah, I think, you know, everybody's always looking for a story or an angle, and that was one that, you know, that obviously ran because of one thing I said in an article in the GQ article.

You know, basically, I, you know, I have nothing against any of that. And, you know, fair play to anybody who gets involved in it. And I totally understand all of it. It's just for me, working was more of an attractive prospect, having done both. And, you know, it was very important for me to get Slow West May. It was the first DMC production. I put a lot of time and energy into trying to get, you know, that company sort of up and running and working with riders, working with projects.

and so as a priority it just was it was higher up for me but it's nothing against any of the academy or any of the members or any of that you know it's just I had to do a job down I had to do a job down in New Zealand and I know that you know

going on that campaign it requires a lot of energy and focus and it's four or five months so that's the amount of time that I could prep and make a film I got the chance to spend a good amount of time recently with Jack Rainer for all those crazy Transformers, things you know, these worldwide crazy stuff.

Yeah, it's great for him. Exciting opportunity for him, obviously. And you obviously worked together on Macbeth, which looks, even just from the print materials, looks like it's going to be fantastic. Scary. I haven't seen it yet. I'll get to see something, I think, when I get back to Europe. So they decided to call it Macbeth and not something else.

fear of superstition, nothing? I'm pretty sure they're going with the title. Are you a superstitious type? Does it not apply to when you're making the movie? Because a lot of people, when they've obviously gone on stage, they've been quite superstitious about even referring to it. Yeah, I wasn't before, but little things would happen during the filming.

Certain things that made one think, oh my God. So at a certain point, I think it was changed to the Scottish film. Yeah, you know, that play is, for me, it's my favorite Shakespeare play, and it's, you know, you are evoking whatever it is, you know, darker spirits or the underworld or whatever, you know, you want to call it, and it's, you know, it's such a particular piece that deals with sort of, you know, grieving death and two people trying to find themselves again in a relationship, having lost a child. and um and and and and mary and cotyard right yeah yeah and you know for me and certainly just and and marrying you know we talked about them you know the murder of duncan it being such a huge act and something that the both of them were so you know it was a pact between them that they that it was almost the murder was you know they were trying to get bring themselves back together through such a heinous deed and you know for a brief

moment it happens but then everything unravels from there as we know that's how the play goes but just that's the idea of two people trying to find themselves through a murder again to reconnect as a husband and wife do you want to

do some stage work soon I think it's been a while since you've done something on stage it sure has and I think 2006 was the last time I did something on the stage I will do it but is it again just sort of like opportunities are there right now

and it's hard to say no to the Riddly Scots, et cetera, of the world You know, absolutely, you know, there's only so much I can do and, you know, like I said, the DMC stuff, I really want to push that forward. Assassin's Creed, you know,

working on these things, trying to get them right and really trying to bring something special for the audience. So, you know, at the moment I'm really kind of just up to my eyeballs and all of that. I will definitely go back

and do something. I enjoy it. It was something that I've always felt very comfortable with me. I started off doing pantomime, pub theater and amateur sort of, you know, dramatics. And then I, you know, put together, you know, Reservoir Dogs at 18, directed that. And then I went, you know, played Oedipus at the next sort of school and Mother Courage. So, you know, I was very comfortable.

But then I went to drama school in London. And it was, again, a very theater-based education. Right. So we were doing all the classics, you know, Shakespeare, Seneca. and we didn't get much time in front of a camera and film was my original drawing to becoming an actor it was like all those films we were talking about earlier the 70s, you know, Macopoulos-Corsese-Lumet

so that was the origin for me so then when I left drama school in London I said look I really you know I need to learn now I need to get in front of a camera and start to develop a relationship with a camera and understand that and that was really my focus and I guess it didn't really sway too much

for the last 15 years. But I will definitely go back. But I just don't know when. It's got to be the right thing. Yeah, again, it's got to be the right person to direct. Is there, are you still as much of film consumer now? I mean, do you still watch a lot? Not as much, no.

Not as much. I kind of, you know, find, again, my time is, is there's less of it so when I do have some time off I try and do things like get to track live your life as opposed to well yeah just kind of you know get involved in stuff

yeah you know I mean I think you know the danger perhaps for an actor that's like working like I am is that I start to lose touch with actually living and that's where I'm you know supposed to be drawing experience from so if I'm drawing you know if I'm doing make belief all the time then that's all I'm drawing from is make-believe. So I try and inject, you know, into just doing, the act of doing things. I don't want to say you're losing touch, but the fact that you're just wearing wool-wall leather

and fur right now, it's just a little disconcerving. Yeah, I know, but it makes me comfortable. That's the main thing. And I was lying, just for the record. Not really, but he is. But he's not. Am I? You'll never know. Are you anxious to re-team with this will be your third collaboration with Ridley? Yeah, I just had dinner with them there last week, and just love Ridley. It's just such, it's incredible watching him on set and watching him sort of work,

especially with such an operatic type of thing like Prometheus and such a big scale, such a large crew, and just to see how he, his dialogue with each different department, And it's just incredible. It's like a James Cameron in that way. They were saved about James that he like can do every job on a set as well or better than anybody else.

Yeah, you know, it's just like I was talking to, you know, one of the stunt guys, Rob Inch, who sort of worked with a good few things with Ridley now and he was just saying, you know, he was talking through an action sequence and Ridley was like, yeah, yeah, just sort of doodling away and he sort of finished explaining the action

sequence and Ridley just sort of lifted up a piece of paper and he was like, so that's what you're talking about? And he basically storyboard the whole thing. He's incredible. I hope they give a, I mean, obviously Prometheus did well, but I feel like the fan boys came out and it became a divisive film and it's a gorgeous looking film. It's an amazing film. And, you know, it has audiences divided, which, you know, is more interesting than people walking away that are indifferent. You know, at least, it's true. It's true. It's true. It's true. It's true. You know, at least there's conversations then. You know, people can argue at a dinner table or, you know,

after they come out of the movie theater, they're talking about it later. That's always good. Absolutely. I don't know why I lapsed into a little. Maybe it was the Macbeth talk. Exactly. The bard isn't, you know. It's always good to catch up with you, Michael.

Congratulations. Honestly, Frank. I totally dug it. It's, as you say, funny, but also pointed in in the end. And fine work and screaming and singing throughout. Thanks, brother. Thank you. It's good to see you, man.

Appreciate it. Thank you, everybody. I'm Amy Nicholson, the film critic for the L.A. Times. And I'm Paul Shear, an actor, writer, and director. You might know me from The League, Veep, or my non-eligible for Academy Award role in Twisters. We love movies, and we come at them from different perspectives. Yeah, like, Amy thinks that, you know, Joe Pesci was miscast in Goodfellas, and I don't. He's too old.

Let's not forget that Paul thinks that dude too is overrated. It is. Anyway, despite this, we come together to host Unspooled, a podcast where we talk about good movies, critical hits. Fan favorites, must-season, and case you miss them. We're talking Parasite the Home Alone. From Greece to the Dark Night. We've done deep dives on popcorn flicks. We've talked about why Independence Day deserves a second look.

And we've talked about horror movies, some that you've never even heard of like Ganges and Hess. So if you love movies like we do, come along on our cinematic invent. Listen to Unspooled wherever you get your podcasts. And don't forget to hit the follow button.