Happy Sad Confused - Michael Keaton

Episode Date: January 12, 2015

The incredible Michael Keaton is beloved by so many people and for good reason. From Night Shift to Birdman, Michael has had an amazing career and joins Josh this week to talk about his early days of doing stand-up with the likes of Letterman, whether he still practices his Beetlejuice, being the first to create the Batman voice, and much more. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Get after him or have you shot What do you mean blow up the building From this moment on None of you are safe New episodes every Wednesday Wherever you get your podcasts Hey, guys, it is time for another edition of Happy, Sad, Confused. I'm Josh Horowitz, and welcome to my podcast.

If you're new to the show, welcome aboard. If you're a returning regular, I love you dearly, and I hope to continue to earn your solemn trust. This week's episode is another one. that is delighting me, and especially 12-year-old me, I can't believe I got a chance to talk to Michael Keaton. This guy is so beloved by so many people in my generation and for good reason. You know, if you're a comparable age to me, you probably worshipped him in those Ron Howard comedies, you know, night shift, Mr. Mom, that wasn't Ron Howard, but but Sam ERA, Johnny Dangerously, Gung Ho, this is all off the top of my head.

I mean, and then you go into, of course, the next iteration of his career, which blew all of our minds. In 1989, I will never forget it. I might have skipped school, yeah? 13-year-old Josh might have skipped school to go on opening day to see Batman. And it is not a regret at all. I went to school a lot. Like, went to school plenty. Batman only opens once.

He has had such an amazing career. Certainly ups and downs like any actor, and he is clearly enjoying it up right now. If you are living in a hole or a cave or other dwelling that doesn't get the internet or access to movies, you may not know that he's starring in Birdman, which the rest of us know is a phenomenal piece of work. is truly my favorite movie of the year. It's been a great year. Last year was a great year in films,

but Birdman was just the delight. I've seen it a few times, and I think Michael could be considered the Oscar frontrunner for Best Actor. He's certainly up there. He's certainly going to get a nomination. It's so exciting to see his career back on the upswing and him getting to really sink his teeth into cool roles. This conversation is so fantastic. You know, I'm taking myself out of the equation. I was just sitting there with him. He and I went down memory lane and talked a lot about his beginnings, whether you know it or not. Michael actually started as a stand-up comic.

His career kind of parallel, David Letterman, who they've maintained a great relationship. We talk about that a bunch. We got to talk about Beetlejuice and Batman and all those early comedies and a little bit, of course, about Birdman, too. I only regret we didn't have more time, but this is truly one of my favorite episodes of Happy Sank Confused ever. I hope you guys enjoy it. If you're like me, you're a total Michael Keaton geek. So enjoy the next 35 minutes or so of Michael Keaton goodness. One reminder before we get into the show, of course, as always, hit me up on Twitter, Joshua Horowitz.

Let me know who you want to hear on the podcast, what you're loving, what you're digging, and go over to the wolfpop.com site. go to the forums and just chit-chat amongst yourselves. And with me, I check them out over there. But in the meanwhile, here is the awesome Michael Keaton. The first thing you're going to hear is Michael, of course, playing with the Birdman action figure on my desk. And wackiness ensues. Enjoy. Okay, so for those, this is a good way to start.

the podcast. Michael Keenan has just destroyed my Birdman action figure. Sorry. Michael. How could you? What does that say about you that you are murdering yourself? Oh, don't read too much into it. Don't worry. That falls off all the time, but I'm more concerned that the audio does not.

Yeah, me too. Let's try it again. Well, it doesn't matter because I've got the real thing here. You can do it at Will. Well, yeah. And if Will we're here, I would do it, Adam. Do you have a I do I didn't know

There were that many floating around I This probably breaks your heart a little bit But Peter Travers has one too So sorry Why did you have to Like literally the first thing To start off?

No it wasn't the first thing First thing is I broke it By the end You're going to be literally stabbing me In the heart I'm going to take these scissors away As I said It's always good to see you man

It's been fun to get a chance To talk to you a couple times Over the last couple months About what it's my favorite movie of the year. It's an amazing. It's an amazing piece of... It's so easy for me to say that

because you just remove me from the equation and I just look at this movie and think this is the kind of movie that... Well, I just think that it's... I just enjoy it. I just say, this is not like anything I've ever seen ever before. And I was telling someone,

this is the kind of movie that when I was in college, I would have been right in my strikes when I said, man, I can't wait to get there. That's what I... You know, by that time, you know, or even... Like, teenagers are really responding to this. I'm sure.

I would have the poster on my wall at college, totally. Yeah, me too. In college, I would have gone, oh, yeah, I got to see this. Because it, this can be a pejorative, too, but it could be like, it's the cool movie to like, too. Because it's got there so much in there to, like, and I was trying to Edward about this last night, too. It's subject to interpretations. The ending, obviously, leaves it open to endless debate. Yeah.

Do you have, like, what's your take on the ending? Do you have a take on it? Do you not talk about it? Like, what do you... I like the not... I like the ambiguity of it, not just in the film that it's ambiguous. I like my own ambiguity about it. I mean, yes, I do kind of have my general take on it,

but I like the idea that I'm willing to leave it open, that in a month or maybe 20 minutes from now I'll go, You know, I want to rethink that. Yeah. You know, I mean, why not? Why not have, have, you know, that kind of, kind of free, kind of free space, you know? Yeah, those are the best ones. I mean, I literally was seeing online yesterday, like, a fight club, another movie, like, in that vein where you can reinterpret it.

Someone had a new theory about, like, Helen Abonham Carter's character doesn't exist either. That's also in his head. And it's like, oh, 15 years on, we're still dissecting it and finding new stuff to get out of it. Yeah, fight club was good, wasn't it? Such a good. I know people it didn't kind of it didn't click at the time but yeah yeah but people Edward and I were talking about that actually you think well that wasn't successful and you go no it was actually really successful in terms of in the important stuff it actually like 50 years from now they're

going to be talking about it yeah yeah yeah I really dug that do you have do you have ones like that when you look in your own career that didn't like where you afterwards are like again I love this film this works for me this feels right and for whatever reason it didn't click with an audience Paper holds up And paper did okay You know financially It's okay Didn't break any records

But it's never right But but it's People still talk about it It's weirdly kind of gotten more respect As the time's gone on I think Multiplicity too Did okay But you know

You'll be walking down the street Literally in Europe And there are people who really Years ago People started really responding to multiplicity And there's a whole new group of kids. These two young kids I know she's 14 now

and he's 12 now I think or 11 they totally take it they're so into it I'm going to get some water Oh sure no worries you The paper hit me at like precisely the right time I was like this like freak and I think you might be a good freak in the same way because I've noticed on your Instagram

you and I might be the last people that get print subscriptions to newspapers that actually get the physical newspaper I was just talking about this I love newspapers I love them. I don't, I'm never going to get to. I will never let go of it. Me either.

That's so nice to hear from somebody your age because I hope they're still around. I don't know what it is about them. I like having a physical thing to look and fold and then pick it up again later. But you're right. I do use it as a, you know, as a kind of a bit of a, it may be obnoxious. I don't know how people are thinking about it. Well, the thing about newspapers that I find one of many things I love is. What you were saying was I use it as kind of occasionally as kind of like, what do you

point out a yes something going on that you have a soapbox right yeah I hope I'm not too soapboxy but I don't think so hitting a right level of soapboxiness

but you know we're in this culture now we're like we like curate our own news by the way pardon me I hate to keep him interrupting it's a great one the day I took and I have it maybe I won't I'll show it to you and too oh yeah okay cool I should do this I should this is one where you get to like fill in your own it's I can't tell if Bainer's trying to stick his

tongue in Nancy Pelosi's ear This is a captioned this. This is like, let's figure out the best possible caption. Yeah, I think maybe we ought to do this. We're going to just let everybody fill in their own. Look, look. He also looks like he also looks kind of like he's trying to keep her busy

while he can smack her over the head with that mallet. He does. He doesn't mind me. Ms. Pelosi while I whack your head off. And do you think she started with that position? She's not into it. She's not into it. Yeah, I know.

And maybe it should just be makeout session. Right. True love. I last. Yeah. Do you think it started with her going like this and then she went, just give me the... Exactly. He was going for the lips, definitely.

Yeah. Oh, he was going in for the lips for sure. Have you always been into politics? Is that how you were raised in terms of just... You know, we always... And my son, Sean is pretty, you know... He'll still occasionally read in his paper, but mostly, you know, he's 30-year-old dude, 30-year-old dude.

And he will watch... you know, mostly online stuff, and NPR, you know, while he's working at home. He's a songwriter, a very good songwriter, and he'll have NPR in the back. So he does do that. He's done as much in the newspaper. So he inherited that from his mom and me,

and we got it from our families. And in my house, it was mostly local stuff, you know, township stuff, borough stuff, Pittsburgh stuff, but not, that would be, and then national stuff, you know, like when Jack Kennedy was a big deal that he was elected president because he was Catholic and my mother was Catholic and my father was a Protestant and when they got married I'm the youngest of many kids so so my parents were always you know they were older than most of my

friends right parents and so they you know my frame of reference was kind of wider than a lot of my friends which I always thought was kind of cool and when my mother married my father that was he was a Protestant that was kind of a big deal I mean, it's so insane, you know, it's so, all of it is so insane. Like, the story, the Alan Turing, is that his name? Yeah, Al Turing, yeah. When you read about what they did. It feels like that should be 3,000 years ago, and it's 50 years ago.

It's 50 years ago. And it literally is like a science fiction movie. We're going to give you a drug to stop what you naturally are. We're going to kill you. It's so fucking crazy. Yeah. So anyway. But also inspiring in a weird way that, like, we're living in a time.

Like, like, every time's like this where there's, like, a shift happening. And, like, you know, within five or ten years, already right now, it's going to look like absurd that we were banning gay marriage. Like, it's like, like, really? Like, like, our, my children are going to be like, dad, you were, your generation was fucking insane. You're not kidding. And, you know, I'm of a generation where, you know, and I was active, you know, was a war protester. And, you know, but the environment in the late 60s, early 70s, there was already. of movement, but the 70s people don't realize

it was a really strong environmental movement and women's movement and equal rights movement and black causes and you know, that was that's where I kind of

come from. So even I and even then my generation or at least my friends or like-minded wasn't as good as it is now, but in terms of people being gay, that was not really that big a deal. Your generation, it's like,

you must think it's insane. It must seem so stupid. Yeah. People love who they love. I mean, who cares? Yeah, it's almost impossible to comprehend for many of us, thankfully. Let's talk about stuff

that's almost as important your career as political. Oh, that's much more important. Right? It's got a priority straight, Michael. Come on, dude. So I want to go back a little bit because, well, one thing I'm kind of saddened about, like, I grew up loving, for instance,

your appearances on Letterman, and you might, like, this might be it. Letterman's going away. I know, I know. I'm not going to be too happy. I know. I can't wait to go again because I think we're already booked, and I thought, wait, I need a couple more, I think. You know, what's funny is we, I have a small stockpile of, you know how it works. You do a pre-interview, and they say, here.

Here's some things we're thinking to talk about, or he wants to know about this, or what do you want to talk about, or you, or here's some things we think are funny. And then he and I, especially over the last maybe five appearances or more, we never even get to them. Right. We never get to my thing. We'll mention one thing, and that he's been so great about, especially Birdman, which he genuinely loves. But, you know, promoting him with a movie I directed, he was really wonderful about that because he genuinely liked it. But we never get to a lot of stuff, so I've got this little backlog of things. Thanks.

Stories you've been saving just for days. It's just go jam a couple more in. But it's probably as good as anything in my, or as enjoyable. And of all the great memories, this is way, way, way up there. This will be one of the things that I'll miss the most, I think. When did you guys meet? Like, were you on, like obviously one of your beginnings was doing stand-up? Was he doing stand-up at the same time?

Did you guys know each other then? Yeah. We kind of hit town, roughly at the same time, I think. I can't remember he may know better than I. I was just talking to Brokaw about this. And I remember the house, because occasionally he's as notoriously, not the most social guy in the world. But we would go out and hit the tennis ball around, or there was a playground, a school playground near his house, I think, and we'd go shoot ball, you know, play basketball and just shoot around, goof around, talk.

We then would see each other at different places. He kind of did stand up longer than I did, I think. And then he immediately started getting television shows. And then we were briefly on a television show together in L.A. that didn't last. What was the show? It was actually with Mary Tyler Moore. She, they created the oddest thing. They thought, well, we can get it.

Because it had very funny, very witty writers on it. In fact, Merrill Marco, who was his girlfriend at the time, was really a funny writer. And a writer slash actresses named Judy Khan was very funny. And it was a really talented group, Susie Kurtz. Yep. And Dick Sean. And so they thought, let's get kind of like, without being too judgmental here,

hipper people than Mary had been worrying with and see if that works. It just didn't. It's not like we were dumbing down. That sounds way too protection. But we were all kind of doing things that we wouldn't normally be knowing to fit into a network. work kind of thing with her but she was wonderful she's a really nice woman and game for everything but you know there were certain things that we thought were funny that would never they were never going to put on you know i mean it's funny to look at your career i mean you'll get the stand-up and you

did a lot of tv and your first film i mean night shift really you were what 30 31 right something around there yeah yeah probably uh a little let's see i was a pretty young dad i think i had Sean when I was 30 or 31 somewhere around there and I had him right around Johnny dangerously I think So maybe like you late 20s then

Yeah So yeah But was Was stand up a way to get to acting And a way to get to film Or was it a little bit more haphazard Of sort of where you ended up It was kind of that

But it wasn't You couldn't You didn't have the luxury You know strategizing You're planning Here's my grand plan Watch it happen Much unfold

Right right yeah that's a sure way to make it not happen right uh so but yeah it kind of did go like that but but uh you know i was getting ready to move to new york because i was i would do a play while i was working during the day because i was had gotten really interested in acting but simultaneously i was just such a huge comedy fan and all my friends were really funny or a lot of my friends were really funny and a lot of my friends thought we the guys who were funny and the women who were girls who were funny uh thought we were funny so so i i just dug the world and i really started reading the lampoon a lot and and i um and i started writing uh comedy and i didn't

really know what i was writing i just started writing things that were funny and um while i was you know thinking i think i might want to be an actor i was also starting to write comedy because it was my favorite thing and I was I started to do stand-up simultaneously so I was moving to New York and at the last minute really a guy said you had to come out to California try that and I never thought I'd stay in Los Angeles I thought ultimately I'll come here in New York you know and do what I set out to do but I was first of all I had a stage every night just go do stand-up and then I was really dedicated to that solidly for about a year and a half which is nothing. That's a second, you know, in terms of how hard it is to really build a real

career. I don't know if you've read that. I just saw Chris Rock last night. Chris Rock is like ridiculous. Smartestly a guy in the room. And that's what I said to him. First time I met him when he was really young and I'd seen him and something. I said, man, you're really funny. I said, but more than funny, you're really smart. And he's so unbelievably generous and complimentary because he had seen my stand-up when he was a young kid and he was an enormous fan of my stuff

and anything that ever got on television was never really very good because back then the things I did they didn't really fit and I was just getting pretty good and I was had a lot of respect but not like these guys who were there are so many good stand-ups around now

And putting a real year and a half or two years into it is nothing. That is nothing. You're not even getting started to really building what you need to build and how long it takes to build and create something. There's always going to be like a little piece of me in there because I know how hard it is. And when you see these guys who are so great, you know, Louis C.K. And this kid I heard the other night, man.

This guy I heard the other night, man. I can never, I'll find his name. He's a Chicago guy. I think this dude is fucking tremendous. Well, it's crazy to think, though, that also, like, you say a year and a half, but, you know, Chris is remembering you and you were obviously getting, people were liking your stuff. Just last night, it was embarrassing, the same to Bradley Cooper is going on, and I thought this, I actually don't know how many ways to say thank you. It's kind of like, you want them to stop. But, but it is really hard what they do.

And when you, they, people don't know, they think it's, well, they're really funny guys, and they get, it's really difficult. what the great guys have to do to get to that point. I'm curious, okay, so like, okay, so in the career path, the night shift, you look at the first thing. Oh, sorry, I didn't answer. Oh, it's all good. So it kind of went like that, yeah, but there wasn't a plan like that, you know, because I was also taking acting class in L.A. and thinking, I don't know, something's got to happen here one way or another, but the beauty of doing stand-up and the smartest thing I ever did without knowing it was smart at the time was,

well, I guess I kind of knew that it was, you don't have to sit around and think. think somebody's going to hire you for something because once you get by getting asked you know you do you know you do a you know open mic you know you sign up and hope you know you get some lousy spot and then you hopefully get asked back once you get past that you get asked back which happened actually one of my first times here at catch rising star literally one of the first times i got on a stage in new york um i'd come do the improv and do that and so i thought oh i maybe can do this Once you get by that, every night, if you want to, you have a place to get up on a stage. And since mine wasn't joke, joke, joke, joke, it was more, I don't know what it was, really.

I had a place to go. I had a stage every night. So I wasn't sitting around, if I want to do. And I wasn't as ambitious as a lot of these guys were. But you had a place to be up on a stage, which is huge. People don't think of. I mean, that's like I've talked to many actors. I've talked like you need people to pay you.

and to pay for production to actually do your thing or otherwise you're sitting on your ass. Totally. And, you know, the good thing about a lot of, I was talking to this young guy the other day and he was telling me, I said, well, how's it going, man?

He's an actor. He says, oh, you know, pretty good. But he said, I got this thing and he's doing some kind of like, I don't know, a little web series. It's not even a, I don't even a popular web series. But I thought, man, I said, you know, it's hard.

You've got to keep doing it. But I thought in a lot of ways now, I don't know that it's easier. But you at least can go do something, which is kind of great for everybody. You can get, you know, it's as almost as legitimate as anything, you know, it's a, yeah, yeah. Was the, was the first, like, slew of movies in the wake of night shift? Because I would think that you're talking about being, like, a comedy guy, a guy that truly appreciated the stand-ups and comedy first and foremost.

It must have been, like, an amazing gas for you to be in those films which some hit bigger than others, but, like, Mr. Mom and Gung Ho and Johnny Dangerously, which I don't even know how well it did at the time, but, like, I remember just, like, wearing out my VHS. time. And some of that stuff still holds up. Oh, my God. Caudible beyond the league. Yeah, exactly. We're going, we're going legit. We're going legit.

I was sitting there the other day I did it in my head. We're going legit. What? Legit. Lawhi. So stupid. So brilliant. It's a fine line.

Yeah. So those were doing pretty well. How many hats do you have? Upwards of a thousand, Johnny. I'm probably content for you to do all of Johnny Day and all the way through. Upwards of a thousand. That's a fucking hip line.

But is that, was that a thrilling time to sort of get to be able to be on that larger stage and to just do the silliest craziest, craziest shit? You know, man, I'm starting to think I didn't, I was having so much fun and I don't think I was even, now I don't think I even appreciate how much fun it was because I miss it a lot. And even some of the comedies within them that go, you know, I know I got better comedy. in me, and I know there's other people out there that I haven't gotten to be around yet. To me, Albert Brooks was it when I, I mean, he was, he was, he was, you know, and Jonathan

Winters and Pryor and so many of these guys, but back then, and I never even got to like, to that part of the, to do that kind of stuff or do it with him or, or, or so, so while I'm proud of a lot of the comedy that I did, and I'm grateful and it's, fun that guys like you dig it I don't think that even got to where it was and I look back and I go man I just am missing doing something

again you know something ridiculous like when I did the other guys a couple years ago yeah oh man dude I can't tell you how fucking fun it is it's just and those you think you know I'm a major leger and then you don't do it for a while and you go back and I showed up and said

and I went they're throwing they're throwing heat constantly all day long they're throwing these guys throw fastballs curves they're so good and you think whoa i didn't know it's that rusty so you start to go i got to pick it up here man i forgot about this world oh mackay on the bullhorn shouting stuff at you right like it's crazy uh steve korel and i were talking the other day and we were saying how much fun it is to work with those guys and he said and no matter what you come up with when you think you're really

great you're never as funny as adam mackay he's always funnier whatever he was throws out there is always funnier. I'm curious this is something that's always intrigued me

and not to bring the mood down but in the midst of that run you did Purple Rose of Cairo with Woody Yeah

and obviously for those that have seen the finish film you didn't do Pearl Rose of Cairo Right

So wait It was that Is that a tough moment? Is that a hugely You know what's weird is it was

and I don't think I knew at the time how tough it was because other people were taking it harder than I

was because what actually happened was first of I just had a baby and And so that's when I was.

He was shown my kid was tiny. And I was, I dig being a dad. I just like it. And I'm a very active dad. And I was a very, very, I was not really locked in because I had to kind of try to move them here in New York. And I was trying to be, you know, that and responsible and go do a movie. And I was doing things back to back, back, back, back to back, back. And so I don't think I was doing a particularly good job.

And at one point I remember saying to him, Hey, you know, we're only rehearsed and blocked a couple things for camera. And I said, hey, I'm not sure. Are you okay? And somebody goes, no, no, very good, good or something, whatever he said. And I said, because, you know, now might be a time. Maybe, and I'm okay with it, you know, if you're a no, no, no, it's perfectly fine, whatever he said, and something like that. And I go, okay, okay. And then he, I think that he thought about it after a couple days, sure, you go, I remember he used, this is interesting.

I've never told me one of this, actually. He used, and I remember thinking when we were talking on the phone and we decided. He, he at that point was more than decider than I was, but I certainly opened that up for him in case, it's your own fault. You brought it up. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He was like, oh, wait a second, the actor's asking. And he was, yeah, and he was probably correct, I would say. But he used, and I remember talking to him, and he used the word, oh, God, we were talking about it.

He goes, this feels so icky. And I remember thinking, wait, Icky isn't a word that would he have. I was going to say. I've never, I can't imagine. And it's stuck in my head. More than anything, that's what I remember that day. I kept, I walked away going, did he say icky? Ikey. Your performance is grody to the max.

He's now we turned into a Valley Girl. So, yes, that's right. It didn't. And only because he's done some of the great films, you know, like crimes misdemeanors in Manhattan. And, you know, just only that, I guess the only thing I feel would occasionally, I don't think about it, but would feel badly about it as you say, ooh, you know, of all that, and I've worked with really good directors, that would have been another one like in the canon, you know,

in the, you look back and go, yeah, we'll work with him. Besides that, you know. In a sense, you did check off the box in a weird way, but it's in a very interesting way. Man, I wish we still have some time, but there's so much more I want to get to. Let's get through a few other things I have to. So Beetlejuice, this is interesting. I mean, again, amazing. obviously stands up.

Here's something interesting I was just reading. Do you think this is true that Beetleju's actually is only on screen for like 17 minutes in the film? I'm not sure of how many

but yeah, he's not on there and if there ever is another one. They would, my opinion is it would make a huge mistake if you increase that by much.

I was going to ask, yeah, because obviously you guys are talking about doing another one hopefully and Tim says he wants to direct, which is amazing. Yeah, so you don't think

structurally it doesn't make sense for him to necessarily be, he's obviously the lead but he's not the driver of the story in a way. I think we're running the risk anyway of walking over a sacred territory, you know, of, you know, Indian burial grounds, you ride around that stuff. Like when they redid the in-laws, I went, no, man, that's where you... Serpentine? Yeah. Serpentine. Okay. Serpentine. Yeah. When you ride around that,

yeah, that's sacred Indian burial grounds. You never ride across that. Because it's Tim's movie It's not mine So part of me goes That's short So it'd better be really right And I don't think you do What you generally do

When you do Or it's done when people do Do sequels Which does do more of whatever I don't know I don't think so Yeah I think I don't know

I don't know By the way I'm wide open Somebody might come up With a concept That is so vastly different That's great I don't really know Have you in the last

10 15 years practice to make sure that you still have that guy in you? Once I did, yes, I actually did. And I started saying, hey, you know, how do I know this? You don't know what I walk around your home? You're like, let me just make sure that voice is there. You get caught doing some really ridiculous things in your house. So, okay, so when Tim comes to you with Batman, was your instinct that sounds amazing?

Or was your instinct that's an odd decision? Kind of both. Because on one hand, I think like I think about all things, I go, oh, okay, well, let's talk and we'll see. And, you know, like every job's like that for me. And I just go, and then I either go, I don't think you want me or this maybe isn't a good idea. Or I go, okay, and then we go to the next step. So it was kind of that. However, when he came to me and I didn't know what he wanted to do, there might have even been,

him thinking back a second or two or a few minutes of going, oh, yeah, Tim doing it, first of all, and then me doing it, I don't really know. But knowing that it's Tim, I thought, you've got to have that conversation, because who knows? And then when he gave it to me, what do you want to do? He said, just read this, and then let's talk up to you read it. And I can't remember if he had given me the Frank Miller, comic books yet, his books yet are not. I can't remember. But I went and I read it and I said, okay, they're probably not going to, the studio is probably not going to want to do, it's pretty

obvious who this guy is. And I said, well, we sat, I remember where we sat and had coffee and I'm saying, okay, well, here's what I think. And I started to talk to him and he just looked at me and he kept doing this, well, that's saying a word, not like this. And he had that real long hair I saw a photo the other day He looks fucking great man He's a madman But even better like cooler mature Kind of artist cool vibe

I don't know It looks cool Anyway his head was going up and down As he was going nodding his head Yes yes yes And I go okay I guess he agrees with me Doesn't mean anything

Because they're not going to do What he and I want to do Because he kept saying exactly That's what he is He's depressed And he's experienced this But I didn't want to play It was too boring to play

just depressed and there was really no humor in it and that's what he was open to and I would say hey you know what do you think is this too much is this you know because there was no I don't I don't know that there's any I mean I don't see that I haven't really seen one from beginning then but I'm not kind of I don't know that there's and there may be charm because there was there's an element I mean you know like that whole scene he was wide open to ideas like when she comes to Wayne Manor in the first one Of the two ends of the table? Yes.

He was wide open. I say, hey, what do you say? I mean, you know, I do this. And he said, let me look. He goes, oh. And he may have seen that shot anyway. I can't remember. But I said, you know what we're going to do is if she says to me something about the room.

I forget how she sets it up. And I go, yeah. And I look around it. I don't think I've ever been in here. I said, you know, it's kind of funny. But what it also is is this guy rambles around in this big house by himself, you know. It's kind of pathetic, but not pathetic. It shouldn't be like, this is so serious, pathetic.

It's kind of, I don't know, there's something to it because this guy then in the next, you know, in the next couple of minutes, I'm going to go out and just totally kick somebody's ass. That guy and that guy, that was kind of interesting to me. And he's so, he's just original and artistic. He's just so great. Here's a random question, and I read this somewhere. Did you guys ever talk about you reprising it for a small or a cameo for when he was going to do Superman? I read that somewhere that when he was going to do Superman, no?

I don't remember the conversation. Okay. Oh, you know, did he talk to me? No, I would remember that. I'm curious to one other aspect of Batman. The voice, which now we kind of take for granted that, like, all the Batman that have come since have done that. Adam West didn't do that. He just did his Bruce Wayne voice for Batman.

Was it a no-brainer for you to, he needs to sound a little different. He needs to kind of scare the shit out of people. Well, that's how it started. In fact, that's where the Birdman voice came from ultimately because I told Alejandro the story. What happened was, like, I can't do anything. Even with Adam McKay or those guys, you know. The other thing I was going to mention when I mentioned doing the movie, doing the other guys,

was and then doing Clear History, just to get back and be around funny guys like hater. Hater's unbelievable. I've said, he's Will Ferrell. He's the next. Dude, people, forget Clear History because he didn't really get to have all the shit he was doing. It just didn't work in the plot. So even as funny as he is.

On the set, like I had to walk away because I'd lose my concentration. He's just so fucking funny. Anyway, so doing that kind of stuff was really... Fired out of it, like the cylinders in you. Yeah, I thought, oh, man, I forgot how... Yeah, I got to go to this to be around those kind of people. Yeah. So anyway, the Batman voice was like this.

You want to talk to Adam McKay or Larry, David, or anybody. I mean, you know, you go, oh, wait. What are you doing? It's a big comedy. I don't, I literally don't know how to do anything unless I have a logic to it or some kind of, it can be the silliest, stupidest, broadest, but I have to work from somewhere. So I have to know, have certain answers or ask certain questions about the character or the person, even though, I mean, Beat of Juice, I didn't really have to. I just didn't know what he was and Tim couldn't quite, so I just went and put something together and he's loved what I put together.

So when I ask those things, I have to have certain answers. So in Batman, you know, I'm kind of a logic freak, and I can't get past a certain point unless I believe what I'm doing or unless I think. So it was really this simple, you know, would be rehearsing a scene on the set, and they're building these tremendous sets, and you go into, like, you know,

and talk to, you know, somebody in the middle of Gotham, and I look at him, I go, this is, you guys are going to look at me and go, Hey, everybody, it's Bruce Wayne. You're figuring it out. You know what I mean? I recognize that jaw. Yeah, because obviously you, you're like four feet from me, you know, and the lights are, it's nice and bright and stuff.

So we really started to adjust where you saw me, how you saw me, how I stood. And I said, and I had a whole thing I did that a lot of it got cut where I'd kind of transcended into another state. I did a thing with contact lenses and everything. And I said to him, I could do something. It's the simplest thing. So I said, he needs to, like, drop down a register or something. So I just came up with his voice. And I used it in the first scene where, you know, I say, I'm Batman.

And then I just said, that's it. But that was just me. And people would say, because they altered it, right? I go, no, nobody altered it. I just changed my voice to do it. And then I learned later that became a thing. Yeah. I never knew that.

It's the model. It's a template now. Yeah. And so the Birdman thing, so I told Alejandro, he said, oh, my God, I started doing it, telling him the story. He calls Emmanuel Labetsky, Chivo over. Chivo, come here, listen to it. Do it, do it, do it.

So he made me do it and started laughing. He said, we have to do that. And then it changed so many times. So Birdman's not exactly like that, but the Birdman voice kind of started with that. Amazing. And I know we didn't get a chance to talk, go deep into Birdman,

but we've talked before about it. We'll probably talk again and some more carpets to come in this season. It's, again, just to reiterate, it's an amazing piece of work and you should feel very proud and I hope you're enjoying I know it's work to do this kind of thing too

but it's all for a good cause it's a really it's a film that you guys should see I've seen it a few times myself and I'll see it a bunch more I love this movie it's really something special thanks for coming by today this is a real treat

thank you very much thanks Michael all right dude cool pop pop pop pop pop pop pop Wolf Pop is part of mid-roll media, executive produced by Adam Sacks, Matt Gourley, and Paul Shear. American history is full of infamous tales that continue to captivate audiences decades or even hundreds of years after they happened. On the infamous America podcast, you'll hear the true stories of the Salem Witch Trials and the escape attempts from Alcatraz, of bank robbers like John Dillinger and Pretty Boy Floyd. of killers like Lizzie Borden and Charles Starkweather,

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