Happy Sad Confused - Michael Keaton, Vol. II

Episode Date: March 11, 2024

Michael Keaton knows a thing or two about directing -- after all he's been directed by the best, from Ron Howard to Tim Burton to Alejandro Gonzalez Inarritu. Now he's directing himself in KNOX GOES AWAY and chatting with Josh about all of it, including the long-awaited BEETLEJUICE sequel, his time in the SPIDER-MAN films, and whether he's done with Batman. SUPPORT OUR SPONSORS! ZocDoc -- Go to ⁠⁠Zocdoc.com/HappySad⁠⁠ and download the Zocdoc app for FREE Factor -- Head to ⁠⁠⁠FactorMeals.com/HappySad50⁠⁠⁠ and use code happysad50 to get 50% off UPCOMING LIVE EVENTS Sydney Sweeney March 20th in NYC -- ⁠Get tickets here⁠ Merrily We Roll Along (Daniel Radcliffe, Jonathan Groff, and Lindsay Mendez) March 28th in NYC -- ⁠Get tickets here⁠ Tom Hiddleston April 11th in Los Angeles -- Get tickets here Cabaret (Eddie Redmayne and Gayle Rankin) May 20th in NYC -- ⁠Get tickets here⁠ Check out the ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Happy Sad Confused patreon here⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠! We've got discount codes to live events, merch, early access, exclusive episodes of, video versions of the podcast, and more! To watch episodes of Happy Sad Confused, subscribe to ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Josh's youtube channel here⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

D.C. high volume, Batman. The Dark Nights definitive DC comic stories adapted directly for audio for the very first time. Fear, I have to make them afraid. He's got a motorcycle. Get after him or have you shot. What do you mean blow up the building? From this moment on,

none of you are safe. New episodes every Wednesday, wherever you get your podcasts. You did pop up in this, like, post-credit thing in Morbius. Did you know what was even happening, what it was leading to? No idea. None. Zero.

And even they couldn't quite explain it. You know, he couldn't. He said, look, let me just kind of tell you. And I go, okay, I really don't quite know what you're talking about or even who some of these people are. But it was complicated because they were, you know, obviously looking down the road and said, here's your work. And I go, okay, I'm in. Prepare your ears, humans. Happy, sad, confused begins now.

I'm Josh Horowitz, and today on Happy Say I Confused, he's Batman. He's Beetlejuice. He's one of our best dramatic and comedic actors. I don't know what it is to love movies without him in my life. He is back directing himself alongside James Marston, Marcia Gay Hardin, and the equally iconic Al Pacino in Knox goes away. And most importantly, he's back on the podcast after nearly a decade away. hold for applause. It's the one and only, Mr. Michael Keaton. Welcome back, sir.

Thank you, and I apologize for breaking your Birdman figure. I mean, that was, I have a one of a kind. The last time Michael was, well, last time Michael was in my office, he decided, you didn't actively break it, but you did by manhandling it. You're too strong for your own good. Oh, my God, manhand, like, I'm so sorry. She, was that, I was just examining? I ain't. get angry and break it off. No, no, no, no.

You didn't storm off. It was all good. Don't worry. Congratulations, man, on the film. We're going to talk about Knox goes away. You're directing careers as your second effort and all the directors you've talked to over the years. I do want to mention, like, you know, the last time we did chat at length was for Birdman. And when I think of that time period, I mean, that set you off.

Like the next two years, I feel like you were on the award circuit. Between Birdman and Spotlight, like, what are your memories of that? 18 months, that two years of when it felt like everyone rediscovered why you were so awesome. Was that exhausting? Was it invigorating? Yeah, that's a really good question. It was invigorating

mostly, I think. And yeah, I guess it's exhausting to some degree, but it was mostly, if I had a pick between the two, it was mostly invigorating. And then you know, just before I well right

Knox was also in the middle of trying to thank three other things project I did called Goodrich and the second beetle juice so but how am I got the beetle juice and we can talk a little bit about that later but that that was

that was I I wish I had I could have used about another couple of months to kind of gear up and and sleep frankly and get ready because the last few years have been real, real busy. And then on the side, I'm rebuilding a house and everything, so that takes up a lot of time. But, yeah, mostly it was really fun and invigorating, and I was with a great group of people,

and I loved both those projects. I mean, it's funny because, like, I'm old enough to remember the last time Michael Keaton directed a movie about a hitman. I was at Sundance back in 2008, and I saw The Merry Gentleman, and I know that was a, that was a fraught production. And that was, you know, that was an unusual circumstance, both in the, I'm trying to, you know, be diplomatic about the making of it and the post, et cetera. Oh, it's a great story, actually, you know, we don't go too long on today, but I always thought it was so nuts that it was probably worthy of some little article somewhere, you know, because it was as crazy as it was funny, too. The story's actually really funny and all came together and, you know, that whole story. But it was kind of great, though, you know, it makes for a great story.

story, actually. And the fact that we pulled up a really nice little movie with Kelly McDonald, the great Kelly McDonald, Gritchie was in that. Yeah. So coming off of that, I mean, I was looking back at even at conversations you were having in support of that movie back then. And you were talking about wanting to get back into the director's chair even then. You'd mentioned working with Nick Nolte on something. How tough has it been? Like, I mean, has it just been that the acting was so fruitful, or was it tough to just get the financing, find the right project, get all the ships aligned for another directing effort? No, it was the first.

It was a combination of what you just said, you know, I just, there wasn't any, any time, really. I was working. And also probably, case of me being maybe a little lazy, you know, maybe I should have been out there asking about what's out there. Does anybody have anything, you know, they've read that they love. You know, maybe I should have been a little more aggressive about that, but, you know, you know enough about this that it's just extraordinarily time consuming to do it right. And it requires patience and focus and all your attention, not just once you start shooting, but even when you start, you know, when you find something, you know. And in this case, in the case of Knox, we were, I was really.

really fortunate because it was already a really tight script. And in terms of rewrites, really rewriting anything was very limited. That's not to say that we didn't change a few things here and there certainly. You know, you do that anyway. But that part was easy. The script was always really good. And then I made certain decisions about what to remove from it, what I didn't, you know, think was necessary, and how to possibly move the scenes away. And then I've got this, that we were all done. It was coming together. It was looking really good. But I've, you know, I've got this wonderful editor now that I'm sure someone's going to grab her and I'll never get to work with her again because she's really, really good. And she thought of stuff in the editing

room. I've got to say, I'm pretty good at that, I think. But she thought of stuff I never would have thought of and really worked. Well, even the transitions between scenes that dissolves, the music, it all lends to this kind of like feel. It's a real, like, vibe of a movie and a real blend of interesting different genres. For those that don't know, this is a tale of a hit man with dementia. I can't think of much worse occupations to be hit with. I mean, it's all, it's bad for everybody, but not the, yeah, because you could easily, he could easily make a mistake. I suppose. I suppose. But, I mean, yeah, so it's, it's curious to me, like, so you didn't write this, but obviously this fits your sensibilities. This is a mix of noir, there's

humor in there, it's a character piece. Did it feel like, oh, once you read, did you read it as a directing, potential directing assignment immediately, or was it potentially an acting gig? No, it was an acting gig. It was, it was sent to me by Michael Sugar, who's one of the producers of Spotlight, and he's Michael produced a lot of stuff with Steven Soderberg. And when I read it, I think he, I don't think if he, I don't think he gave it to me on spotlight. I actually can't want to eat laid it on me. He said, read this, tell me what you think. And I read and I said, this is, this is really good writing, you know, and it's interesting.

I wasn't ready for the twist in the end and all that. And, he said, well, you're interested in doing it, you know, we could probably get this set up. And I said, I don't know, maybe, you know, and then I went off and did a job, I think, and came back and all that time has passed. and I don't really remember a lot of time, more time I passed. And I picked it up and Reddit again. We would check in now and then he and I about it. And it was just kind of there sitting probably on my desk or on a shelf or something. But I'd check in and then he'd say, I knew you're getting ready to start this other thing.

Do you see any time? And by the time I kind of came around on the Reddit the second time, I said, you know, I think the only way I want to do this is I want to direct it. I've thought about it. And I think I know how to do this. that it's a real solid script. And then that process started and, you know, okay, how would that work? And all of a sudden, we honestly pretty quickly found financing.

You know, that didn't really take that long. And then, of course, do all that they do to set that up and work that out, which I wasn't very involved in. And then it was like that, you know. And so I just chose to do both to take the role and direct this. You must have been a joy to surround yourself with this company of actors. I mean, you've got, I mentioned a few of them, Marsden, Marston, Marcia Gayhart, and I think the first time you've worked with the great, I mean, come on, Al Pacino.

To see you two share the screen is such a treat. For those that have been waiting to see Al Pacino eat Chinese food in a bathtub, the time has come. Here we are. Yeah, and by the way, it wasn't in the script. Of course not. Of course not. I had the idea.

I said, we'd think, you know, I felt about eating Chinese food. First of all, you know, I wanted to be respectful and say, hey, you know, do you don't, I'm trying to think if that was even originally in the tub. I think it was. I think it was. And I said, you know, I don't want to just assume that Al's comfortable with that. First of all, you know, there's going to be issues because noise, water.

Right. He's not 25 anymore. And, you know, I wanted to be respectful. And he was totally down with it, totally down with it. he has this cool thing that he used to look pretty closely his idea he had a he had a you know we put the scar on him it was his idea of where he had been shot past you know like I'm around his shoulder you know between this you know his chest and a shoulder which I loved it's pretty subtle but I think you can see it and then I think the Chinese thing was my idea

I'm pretty sure but I can't really remember and and then you know that relationship with a woman And he has, you know, he's been with his partner. And that shot, you know, her doing her nails. That kind of, as I watched it, I said, what do you feel about maybe, you know, what do you think you're doing your nails, maybe while you're talking to him, you know? So it's just the more I hear myself talk about,

the more fun I remember. Yeah, I mean, nothing makes me happier, honestly. I was going to say nothing makes me happier, honestly, that hear of like those people that I grew up watching, who still have that just passion and love for experimentation and acting into their 60s, 70s, and 80s. You hear the same stories. You obviously go back with Jack. You hear the stories about Jack Nicholson, who just like, to the, to his last few films was just like, I love to act.

Just the I'm here to act. I will do the reverse coverage too. Let me act. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And that's Al, you know, he's, he's a pro, you know, and he certainly has his system down, you know, of, you know, of, you know, and he's very smart actually about it. You know, he's realistic about how many hours.

And I'm extremely respectful of that. And also, he's right. He's very smart. You know, your work starts to fade at a certain point if you're too tired. And so we had to, but honestly, the little adjustments we had to make that, you know, that come with a guy like Al, weren't big at all. And his team that he has, they couldn't have been better. In fact, I felt really good when they left, you know, he's got, you know, he brings

an assistant, not just an assistant, it's somebody who helps them out here and there. So there's, you know, three or four folks, but it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, they're really nice people and really efficient. And when they left on the final day, that was so, I'm so flattered actually, because the woman who's kind of, this main person said, you know what? This is the best, this is the best, this is the best film experience we've, we've, we've ever had as a team. Come on.

That's, that's, that's, that's huge. That was. And he's great. He's great. He's great. It's great to see him in this. I mean, this is a, look, we've all been, everybody's been touched by dementia sadly on our families, right? It's just, it's everywhere.

My dad experienced a little bit of, at the end. It's heartbreaking for all of us, you know, not to get too personal, but is there some resonance in your own personal life that you brought to this? Fortunately not. I'm trying to think, gee whiz, you know, I'm fortunate, not in the family, but, but. you know certainly when my mom got older it was a little bit she was kind of ridiculously sharp up into the end though but then then not so much you know right there at the very end like who is and and and uh you're right it so you know what's interesting about it is the you know there's there's i'm pretty sure i'm right about this there's the spectrum of dementia which

can be different things for different people. And then there's, you know, the autism spectrum, which is wide, wide, wide. And then you go, well, wait, does that include OCD? And what's within that, right? Right. Because we're all on that, I feel like. We're somewhere there. No kidding.

Honestly, I've been thinking about that a lot. You know, I'll bet you that's a lot wider than we think it is. And versions of, you know, certain personality types, you know. and all the discovery. So this particular thing, which is Critsfield-Yacob disease, which when I read it, the thing, it was almost a no for me because I thought, well, I don't know if this is going to be believable, really. You know, I mean, I like that.

So I quickly, you know, you can do it in a second and a half now. Google it and looked and read and started reading a little more. And then the writer, Greg and I, I said, All right, Greg, now, you can't make this movie if this is not accurate. He said it's absolutely accurate. And apparently this particular form of dementia is fast acting. It moves at a rapid pace. And once I believe that, I said, okay, then I'm in.

Then this can work, you know. Another thing about this film that I've, the way I've described it is I'm sure you know it and you've played it. You know, the game Jenga, you know. Yeah, sure. the reason I wasn't hesitant I was very very cautious about saying yes to it

I kept going through it and talking with everybody and say does this hold up because I kept saying it's a Jenga movie because it all has to work because if one part of the story

doesn't work the entire don't make the movie it just won't hold up so that was probably the biggest hurdle and the thing I had to ride heard on, which was, uh, is this making, is everybody still in on this? Do we know, are we, are we being consistent? Is that working? Do we believe that? You know, is this part of

the story holding up? Uh, yeah. And, and that, that's a tricky way. It's a little bit of a leap anyway, but, but not much, you know. It's, it's, it's funny, though, isn't it? It's like, it is a, it kind of honors the tradition of noir, like, kind of like ticking time clock that is very familiar in noir. And it just, like, adds in this layer. which I admit when I was watching it, I googled the disease too. I'm like, this can't be real.

I'm like, and then I pull up the Wikipedia entry there it is. But it does give this perfect device that is kind of familiar in these great kind of noir stories. Like, oh, wait, now we have like a ticking clock. We have a day, a week, a month before all goes to hell.

And it really works. It has a lot of things in it, though. Sometimes I joke, you know, I say it's a lot of things. Yeah, it is. I wanted to make, I guess I didn't even think about it being a noir movie when i started making it and i said yeah it's noir but i didn't i wanted to make a a noir movie but not you know be of it but but it's not really first of all you can't do it any better than people have done it the past you know uh and and uh so so there's that but there's

so many ellens sometimes i joke around i say it yeah it's also kind of a family film yeah A fucked up family film, yeah. Yeah, I'm glad to hear you catch because there aren't many of them. I wanted a few more, but they didn't quite play. There are those kind of dark, funny things because I don't know how you make any film without, with the possible exception of, you know, Schindler's List or something, you know. We don't need the laugh break there. No, yeah.

No need for it. Yeah, we're good. Yeah, right? We're not here for the But the whole detective story line I mean, that that's their... Camorra was important for that, you know. And so I really wanted...

Because in the script, it made me laugh. Her character made me laugh a lot. And that she should... You know, she's so sarcastic and such a smart ass. And the two of them together, her and John, oh, man, they were great. You know, they should go do their own movie together. I'm Amy Nicholson, the film critic for the L.A. Times.

And I'm Paul Shear, an actor, writer, and director. You might know me from The League, Veep, or my non-eligible for Academy Award role in Twisters. We come together to host Unspooled, a podcast where we talk about good movies, critical hits. Fan favorites, must-season, and Casey Mistoms. We're talking Parasite the Home Alone. From Greece to the Dark Night. So if you love movies like we do, come along. on our cinematic adventure.

Listen to Unspooled wherever you get your podcast. And don't forget to hit the follow button. Goodbye, summer movies, hello fall. I'm Anthony Devaney. And I'm his twin brother, James. We host Raiders of the Lost Podcast, the Ultimate Movie Podcast, and we are ecstatic to break down

late summer and early fall releases. We have Leonardo DiCaprio leading a revolution in one battle after another, Timothy Chalamee playing power ping pong in Marty Supreme. not forget Emma Stone and Jorgos Lanthamos's Bagonia. Dwayne Johnson, he's coming for that Oscar in The Smashing Machine, Spike Lee and Denzel teaming up again,

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Because masks should be for Halloween fun, not for your emotions. Take off the mask with BetterHelp. Visit BetterHelp.com today to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp, H-E-L-P.com. So since we're talking about your directing effort, if you'll indulge me, I'd love to talk about, you've worked with some of the greats, obviously, over your career, sometimes more than once. And I just want to talk about a few of them and how they may have influenced your acting and your eventual directing career. So like going back, obviously so much of the early work, three films in a relatively short period of the time with Ron Howard. Nothing made me feel older than when I heard Ron Howard turned 70 the other day. They perpetually young Ron Howard, how is this possible? Did you have confidence in him? Because this was Richie Cunningham directing. This was Happy Days Kid directing a film.

What did you feel on the set? 100%. And I'm not just saying that in retrospect. I said it while I was doing it. I didn't get what he was so sure-handed and organized. And I guess I just don't think like that. That whole thing, I remember people commenting on the Richie Cunningham thing. First of all, I knew what Happy Days was, and I'm sure I saw episodes up, but I never watched a lot of it.

But I was very aware of him and Henry and everyone, you know, because, you know, it was part of the, you know, the culture, really. So, so that would come up a lot. I remember, like, oh, Richie Cunning him. And I never understood what people did. It was so obvious to me. It said the man's an actor. He's playing a thing. You know, that's the role. he I'm sure since I've got to know him I was right I said he's got an entire life

you know he's he's also a human being and a grown man and he's this other thing so that was never even I never even really looked at him like that I never and and then just as far as his abilities it was clear from the get go it's crystal clear you know so you know I like that

I love filmmaking for a lot of reasons but one of them is it's it's the ultimate team sport it's a team that no it doesn't work if you're if you're not part of the team and i've always liked that i'm not a big fan of clubs but i really like the concept of a team and and i it's easy for me i go okay here's my role my role is this his role is that her role is this you know and and so you said well this is my job and he's the guy you know he's ultimately it's the director and and uh like that so i didn't think about that one way another and then we ended up getting along

very well i learned over the years that pretty sure i'm right about this i'd have to ask him and make sure i didn't make this up that he and brian grazer and i think especially ron kind had to go to bat for me during as as some of the guys the the the people in the company who were making it uh this is for night shifts for the first one yes yes yes we're concerned about what i was doing you know going off script a lot and improvising and my my behavior and and ron said absolutely trust me this is going to work and uh and he i'm pretty sure i'm i'm right about that i it was it was almost i think there was a discussion of replacing me and yeah i don't think i'm making that up pretty sure i'm right about that and they said no no no this this we know we know

we're doing. We know what he's doing. Trust me, this is going to work. And Henry was great. You know, he knew how to, he knew how to roll with it. Well, you have a nice history of that, and that segue as well into Tim Burton. And obviously, we've talked about the casting in Batman and that whole war about that. And I know we'll talk later this year more about the reuniting on beautiful. I'm so excited. But, I mean, Tim has many things. He's a visionary. He's brilliant. He's not necessarily the most articulate man, I would say, on the planet. Or maybe not. Has he changed? Do you understand Tim Burton speak more now than you did 30 plus years ago? Yes. And what's interesting is about that is I do, because the more you get to know somebody,

you just know who they are. You know, my joke about Tim is, actually, I don't really don't know how old Tim is, but I would say in this entire life, I would doubt that he's ever completed more than seven or eight totally declarative sentences, you know, the noun, you know, it's just not Yeah, if you look at a transcript of what he's saying, it's like, where is the end and beginning with? Yes, and his mind is so creative and it's such an imagination and working so fast that it's very hard, I feel real confident in saying this, it's really hard for him. is so far ahead of any thing that could have his mouth that he, I think he would have to

slow down to do that. And by that time, there's another. We're on to the next. Yeah. More and more, more. He'd never catch up. But I'm glad you used the word articulate, actually, because he actually, I was certain about this, or I noticed this and mentioned it to someone. In an odd way, he's more articulate. at least to me. Yeah. But it depends on your definition of being articulate. Okay.

So now visually articulate, you know, that he, the way he does things and shows things and the examples he uses, it's either that I kind of think a little like him as well, which I kind of do, but also I think knowing and working with him a bunch of times, you know, and times it's either just that that I understand the language or he actually is more a little more verbally articulate it sounds like we're being you know critical and I know you're not no no of course not yeah but but but and by the way it's a it's a it's a pleasure you know it's a it's a pleasure to work on that kind of you know it's a like however you describe language you know his language is his language you know well um well just one beetle jesus

Beetlejuice. I guess it's not Beetlejuice, too. It's Beatlejuice, technically speaking. One question about that, if you'll indulge me. Just what, I mean, the fact that I've been bothering Winona about this for over a decade, just like, when's it happening? I talked to you about this nearly a decade ago. And, you know, you were wary. You pointed out, look, in the original Beetlejuice, Beetlejuice isn't even in the main character, so we have to make sure that's right. How did you guys crack it? Was it, was it immediate, was an easy yes for you, and what was it like stepping back onto certain after all these years? a long time, a long, long, long time, years of Tim and I discussing, dropping it, going

off to the thing, say, should we, then it was a no, the first was like, yes, then it was a no, and then it was like, I don't think so, and that I said, well, maybe if, and then we would talk again occasionally, but we, and we were very, very, very cautious about even talking about it to anybody. I just didn't want, you didn't want to bring it up, but I don't want anything in the way. We're very similar in this. respect. We go, I actually can't hear too many voices right now. I just have to think about this. And the only person I want to think about this particular thing, the only person I want to, about which I want to speak with us about this is, was him. And so we'd pick it up now and then, and then, and then frankly,

there was a script or two, I think. And that didn't, it just, it just wasn't it, you know, because it's really hard to write because it's just not me, you know, going off and riffing. It's actually, there's certain things he can't explain, and it's really hard for him to explain. So then when you see it and you show up, you go, oh, I get it. I see. I see what you were talking about because he has an idea, but it's really too hard for him to explain to you. And then you see it. You go, oh, got it.

I see it. Okay. You know, there are a couple things in this. film that when I read it, I thought, so we finally got to script and I said, yeah, I think we're going to do this. There were a couple things that, to be honest, I read and I went, oh, I love this idea, but I am afraid that's maybe slowing down. So some of my notes were I love it, you sure you want to do that because doesn't it slow down?

Blah, blah, blah, blah, something. Right. When I showed up and we shot one of those particular things I was concerned about, I went, oh, my God, how do you not do this? The scene is do great. first of all visually someone has to photograph this this is just tremendous

so it's like that but anyway you know down the road I'm sure you and I'll meet up for all that but it's you know it's a I can't tell you how good everyone is in it I mean Catherine if you thought she was funny

in the first one double it that's saying a lot yeah I'm curious you know I want to mention I know I want to mention Ina Ritu that collaboration that I mean, that performance of Birdman is so amazing.

You must have responded. And since, like, in the work he's done before and after, the thing that always, like, strikes me about his work is, like, this, like, naked, brave honesty. Like, turning the lens on himself. You see it in Bardo after Birdman. You see it in the stuff earlier. Is that what you kind of, like, resonated?

That leap off the page, like, oh, man, this guy is bearing his soul. And if a director is that fearless, I want to go there with him? But fearless is it. I'm not, I don't think I ever thought about him bearing a soul first. You know, I'd seen Babel, and I had seen, you know, the movie before that. 21 grams and, wait, Moroza Peros or, no, no, yeah, Moris Peros. Yeah. And I was just stunned.

Yeah. And I just thought, who is this guy? You know, this is just, this is just bold, man, and really interesting. So, so I think it was that. I think it's his, it's how bold he is that I admire, you know, and it's intelligence and his willingness to, you know, to really be committed, you know. I find it very curious that, like, at the age you were when you worked with Birdman, with, with Inorritu, Tom Cruise is apparently about to work with him at basically the exact same age.

And I find it very interesting because I, I mean, I love the Mission Impossible movies, but I also want to see what someone, like, you know, Ritu can do with that career, with that, you know, that talent. I didn't know that. I am right there with you, you know, because that would really be interesting. That's an interesting combo.

And, you know, I don't know Tom very well at all, but I know him a little bit, but from what I know, he's extraordinarily professional and admitted and disciplined. And that's going to be interesting because that's, you pretty much have to be when you're, you know, that don't really be that combo. I think that's a great idea. Hey, Michael.

Hey, Tom. Well, big news to share it, right? Yes, huge, monumental, earthshaking. Heartbeat sound effect, big. Mink is back. That's right. After a brief snack nap. We're coming back.

We're picking snacks. We're eating snacks. We're raiding snacks. Like the snackologist, we were born. to be mates is back. Mike and Tom eat snacks.

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How does noise affect your health? These are just a sample of the fascinating topics we discuss on my podcast, Something You Should Know. We bring you leading experts on topics important to you, things you can use in your life

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I'm so, I mean, dope sick, by the way, one of my favorite projects, you and Caitlin Dever break my heart in that unbelievable. She is the best. Yeah, she's one of those that's going to be with us for a while. Yeah, and like a really good girl, really good woman, young woman, you know, just, I just dig her. I'm a fan.

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that scene in the car, you know, no superhero costumes, just due to, a lot is unspoken. It's one of the best scenes in a Marvel movie in some time. Oh, wow, that's interesting to say that, you know, because I'm far from a superhero or Marvel aficionado, you know, I need to be educated. But I always thought that was really cool and that whole idea. That's a great scene, too. And she's so, I also dig her. Yeah.

She's a really nice girl. And she just has this thing, man. You mentioned two of my favorites, those two. But, yeah, that kid's great. And that scene was really weird. And what's great about that role, to me, is once again, no superpowers. Right. Guy who said, this is, I make it.

I've made a decision in my life, I'm going to make stuff or I'm going to figure out how to do this, you know, which, you know, it just gives you that extra, that extra thing to play with, you know. Yeah. Now, here's a question. You did pop up in this, like, post-credit thing in Morbius. Did you, it was a little confusing. Did you know what that was, like, what was even happening, what it was leading to? No idea. None.

Zero. I mean, you know, then they said, okay. And even they couldn't quite explain it. You know, he couldn't, he said, look, let me, let me just kind of tell you. And I go, okay, I really don't quite know what you're talking about or even who some of these people are. And he said, okay, let me explain. But it was complicated because they were, you know, obviously looking down the road and said, here's more work. This is what going to happen here.

And I go, okay, I'm in. You know, let's just try it. But then, and, you know, he's such an interesting dude, you know, like in the scene, you know. Oh, Jared, do you mean? Yeah. Yeah. You know, he's very nice toward the end day when he finally talked to me. And I totally got it. I got it the minute. It's a minute I showed up and I said, oh, I get what he's doing. I'm going to steer clear. Yeah, he was in character. He was apparently method.

Yeah, very, very, yeah. Which I don't make fun of that. Whatever works. Yeah. Oh, good. We obviously, it was a treat to see you pop. up as Batman again. I'm a little sad, and we're never going to see, more than a little said, and we're never going to see Batgirl, apparently. Did you ever see Batgirl? No, some parts of it, I think, but it was a good, done deal. I was just reading that this morning something else. Oh, yeah, there's a big article about a lot of that stuff, you know, the cancellation, the cancellation of things. I guess Wolf Forte's movies canceled. Right. He's really funny, man.

One of the funny, yeah. Man, so. So do you, do you feel like your time in Bat, man now is like officially done like you did it you got a chance to go back into the cow or would you be open at this point yeah i don't think about it much you know you don't never say never i don't think everything's dependent upon something else i guess yeah is there is there a director that's gotten away over the years you worked with some of the greats is there like you know coppola the coens like is there been one that of course yeah and uh uh uh god some of those guys Like the guy who did Kamara, not the series, but Gamara, the film. And then there was brothers with his names.

Sorry, man, I wasn't thinking. No, it's all good. Guys who did, these were movies, you know, long ago I saw. But, you know, you always kind of collect these people in the back of your head and go, boy, that is really interesting work. but you never really know until, you know, you actually meet them because there's no, not necessarily, you know, what your thing is, what they're thinking. Right.

But I'm not a chance to work with, you know, even, you know, guys, my friend and is so organized and thoughtful and precise is John Hancock, you know, and I did Founder, sure. Founder's great movie. It is. It is. He's an underrated filmmaker. If you look at his filmography, there's some real thumbs in there.

Yeah, he's got a real nice visual sense, too. Because a lot of times, let's be honest, a lot of times writers are not. You know, it always made sense to me. You know, actors tend to be good directors. Right. They just kind of tend. Tom McCarthy. Look no further.

There you go. Yeah, 100%. But all right. Yeah. I was going to say, we'll end today with our happy second piece, profoundly random questions for you, Michael. Here are a few. Do you collect anything?

What do you collect? Oh, I do kind of, not like I said, this is my thing. I collect these things. But I do have a tendency to, I find myself like, kind of over the years,

kind of having grabbed things. I have a, I don't have the, uh, vintage, uh, fishing, uh, gear that I would like to have because that is really hard to find and you know, these little niche things that you think, you know, there's a, there are people who collect everything, it turns out, you know, you think, you know, typewriter keys, you know, like, you know, all kinds of things. No, but I don't have a real, I don't have a real, uh, like specific collection, but I do collect little odd things here and there.

I'll, I'll be out when I'm out, you know, at the ranch or, or, or, or, out hiking or, and I'll find things. You know, I've got a thing that I found in the, and I've got a few things I found in rivers, actually. I dragged an old iron tire wheel and a wagon wheel out of a river and saved that. And then I've got this beautiful stag horn, like about this long and broken off. I found the river in Scotland. And it was so beautiful.

It's kind of, there's something laying in the water and I looked over and I picked it up. And it was this old stag corn that had been shed. So, anyway. Yeah. I love stuff like that because I walk by my hallway and I'll see it and I remember how beautiful it was there. Yeah. Do you ever still get mistaken for another actor? Was there one at a certain point in your career that you were often mistaken for? Oh, wait. There was one point someone that this was really funny and now I can't remember who they thought it was because it was like so far off. It was like so weird and far off. Because early on, when I was starting out, and I was in Second City workshops, and I actually took over for somebody in a show a couple of times when Second City was starting out here.

When I was in the workshops, all these people, you know, Betty Thomas and Candy and Joe Flack. All those guys who would say, you sure you don't know Bill Murray? you should know Bill Murray. So if you and Bill Murray, so this is like, and early on I remember there was a comparison, but I don't think it was physical so much as just, you know. You should,

you guys should share some space, some physical space, which is that right, by the way, that makes sense. Yeah, early on, I think,

but everybody eventually becomes what they become, you know, it gets all pretty and clear. Well, last thing for you, worst note a director has ever given you. Does anything stick out? Really good question.

Well, sometimes you think it's not a good note and then you go oh that's a really good note and generally often that is faster right you know everybody you're like you're like really that's all you need okay and that was the way to do it that was it exactly exactly you know some that's what the fun thing is you and you direct people especially actors it's fun because you just sit back and go oh that's interesting i see where he's going i kind of like that and then i use uh Like in Knox, I use examples a lot of go, you know how when, it's kind of like, and then I'll say something, I go, you know what I mean?

And I'll go, think I know what you might say. Okay, just, you know, kind of do that or think about that, you know. It's just so fun, I feel like doing it again. But anyway, it's a really good, I mean, I really like this movie and this cast is fantastic. No, honestly, man. It's a great piece of work. Like I was, like I said, I've been privileged enough to watch it twice. It holds up on a second viewing, too.

It's got some amazing performances. And it is that you do tread that. James Morrison, how good is he? So good. Not the best father. I know your son is very important to you in real life. This is not the father's son relationship of Michael Keaton in real life, but it's a good one. And yeah, James is fantastic.

It's a true to see. That's a little cooch you have in the back there, too. What's his? Oh, thank you. That's Lucy. That's my, that's my little Lucy. I have a little Lucy. Well, yeah.

She's. Do you have, do you have a adult? now, Michael. Here's my next, my next dream is to do a celebrity dog talk show. Just hang out with. That's a great idea. I have four. Okay. You're on board, whether you know it or not. You just signed on. My latest one is named Pudin. I love it. I hope to see you in person and I hope to see Puddin one day. Congratulations on Knox goes away. Everybody should check it out. Thanks, man. Honestly, the time is very very meaningful to me. Thank you, man. Thanks, Josh. And so ends another edition of happy, sad, confused.

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