Happy Sad Confused - Michael Shannon, Vol. II

Episode Date: May 15, 2018

It's an all too rare treat for the spirit animal of "Happy Sad Confused", Michael Shannon, to stop by, but it's always worth the wait. On this visit with Josh, the two dissect their odd relationship, contemplate the sorry state of the world, and even plug a movie, "Fahrenheit 451", along the way! Plus, enjoy a rant from Michael about why he's finally given up his archaic flip phone to enter the 21st century.  As with all things Michael Shannon this is a delightfully bizarre, eccentric, and windy road. You will not be sorry you took the trip.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Conditions apply, visit your local Volvo retailer or go to explorevolvo.com. Don't miss Swiped, a new movie inspired by the provocative real-life story of the visionary founder of online dating platform Bumble. Played by Lily James, Swiped introduces recent college grad Whitney Wolfe as she uses grit and ingenuity to break into the male-dominated tech industry to become the youngest female self-made billionaire. An official selection of the Toronto International Film Festival, the Hulu original film Swiped, is now streaming only on Disney Plus. Today on Happy Second Fused, Michael Shannon returns to talk Fahrenheit 451 and our very complicated love affair. Hey guys, I'm Josh Horowitz. The yin to Michael Shannon's yang.

This is a big one. That's Sammy. Welcome back, Sammy. Hi, thank. It is so good to be back. So good to have you back. I'm glad you didn't sneak this one while I was away again. I would never do something.

such a thing. Okay. To be fair, you were on a glorious, exciting romp through the Scottish Highlands. Correct. Searching for our buddy Sam Hewain. Did you find him? That, uh, you know, I, I didn't. Cut right to the chase. I didn't find him. But, uh, I did find a lot of unbelievably lovely people. Yeah.

From Scotland and the most beautiful, beautiful scenery I've ever seen. and I did travel in time, but I did not meet Samuel. Look, you've met him before. I was going to say again. You will meet him again. But go to Scotland, guys. I work for them now.

Visit Scotland, tourism. What was the highlight? What was the best thing you saw in Scotland? I would say the highlands were the highlight. I loved the cities. I love Edinburgh especially, but the highlands will. Like, every place you look is like a postcard.

It's really amazing and beautiful. And there's a lot of animals there. I'm a big animal person. I don't know if you know that about me. Meaning you like big animals or you're big into animals generally? Both, actually. So there are cows, sheep, stuff like that. That was really exciting.

I tried whiskey. You've never tried whiskey before? No. Look, I just got some for the office, actually. Okay. Look, there it is. You did? Yeah.

Some Woodford Reserves. I'm just trying to, like, you know, build out my little bar. You want people to have fun here. This is a fun place for cool people. Hey, hey, try out drinking. Hey, it's 11 a.m. You want some whiskey? It just got it.

I'm not trying to make it like some crazy place, but I want people to have the option should they desire. Do you offer it or if people asked you for drinks before? I'm trying to think if people have asked me for drinks. I don't know. Like what made you decide to have a bar in here? I don't know. First of all, I don't have a bar. What did I just show you?

you literally a cabinet that has a couple glasses a bottle of whiskey and like a half bottle of chardonnay you probably got from an airplane i just want to create a hospitable environment for any guest whether they drink or not they are games and toys and drinks and my winning personality he has like hard drugs in the corner i've got heroin over here anything anything you want anything ice tea anything um i'll keep you posted if anybody takes me up on it but anyway so you enjoyed whiskey over in uh the highlands i did i did i I just, I, it was a wonderful thing, but I missed being here on this podcast. We missed you.

Luckily, you were back for a very special episode. If there was any episode to come back for, it's this. If you've listened to any episodes of Happy Sack Confused, you know there are a couple of recurring themes throughout the show. Actually, there's really just one recurring theme. It's Michael Shannon. Yeah. Some would say I have an interest, affection.

Obsession? Your word, not mine, but yes. And I think, if I do, I defend it. He deserves it because he is arguably our greatest actor working today. And he just gives you so much love. He's just so loving with you. So, yes, Michael and I go way back. We've talked many, many times.

He's been on the podcast before. And he plays hard to get with me sometimes. It makes you want him even more. So this is a super fun conversation with the crazy Michael Schen. and he is starring in a new film called Farenthood 451 is based on the classic Raid Bradbury story, of course. It is on HBO May 19th. I definitely recommend it.

Michael actually gave me shit during the podcast for not being like effusive enough. It's a good movie. So you're doing it now. No, on the record, it's a good movie. It's him and Michael B. Jordan. I was going to say, two of my favorite Michael's. Exactly.

And it's, I mean, if you don't know anything about the story, It's basically set in a future where firemen are destroy all books and all matter of media and are kind of controlling thought and limiting the way we consume information. And needless to say, has some interesting parallels and relevance to today. This conversation, Michael, if you don't know already, is unabashedly not a fan of the president. And that comes extensively in this conversation. I know some of you hate it when we talk politics on here. But you know what?

Politics are a part of life, a part of movies, part of culture. It's real. And it's real. This is the real deal here. This is the real world. Not going to sugar put it for you guys. And I got to be my authentic self. I'm not going to tell you things I don't believe.

So, yes, when we talk about Trump, it's not positive, guys. No. We don't love him here at Happy Said Confused. I'm not pro. And if that means I've lost you as a listener, it's been a fun ride. Um, anyway, uh, this conversation runs the gamut. It's a lot of, uh, fun, passive, aggressive, uh, love between the two of us. We really dissect the relationship, I think. Oh, I can't wait to hear that. Because I have some curiosities about it, too. I'm, I'm still not settled. I still don't know where we're at.

No, I mean, like, we'll be places and you know he's coming and you get all nervous. It's like, there's a lot to, and I know he does too. So it's like, there's a lot to unpack. There's a lot. Uh, and not to mention. As I said, it all comes out of deep reverence for an actor that I truly think is one of, if not the best working today. He just, you know, you can't take your eyes off of him. He's an amazing performer. So check out Fahrenheit 451. He's also got a couple other projects coming later in the year. I reference one that I think is coming on, I want to say it's, I think it's a Netflix movie.

But it's look out for it later in the year. It's called What They Had. It's Hilary Swank, Blithe Danner, Robert Forster. I love Blight Daner. It's actually a really, really good movie. I saw it at Sundance, and it's a very sad story about a family, dealing with the mom having dementia. So it's, you know, it's tough stuff, but it's really good.

Michael Shannon's not a big comedy guy, is he? Have you seen his work on After Hours? That's, excuse you, I certainly have. Seems like you'd forgotten. No. Of course, I was talking more like his film, his film roles. Kangaroo Jack? You've ever seen him in Kangaroo Jack? I didn't.

Okay. But, you know, I like to, you know, the scene that sticks out for me, it's like shape of water when he rips his fingers off, stuff like that. I'm just like, oh. Spoiler alert. Come on. Yeah, I'm sorry, everyone. That's the crux of the movie. Basically.

So, yes, this was a long time coming. He's, you know, I invite Michael Shannon on with every project he's in, and he's in like two or three a year. He only says, yes, occasionally. So, again, playing hard to get. I'm thrilled that he came by. Did he address the Michael Shannon paraphernalia in your office? We talked a little bit about the General Zodd Action figure that we always have. He didn't reference our Michael Shannon non-sexual escort sign.

Cash only. Cash only. And he only noticed the big poster of him and me. He only noticed the giant poster that's the first thing you see. Yeah, he only noticed that at the very end. Then he did get a good chuckle out of that. So the love is strong is what I'm saying. Oh, I'm happy.

All right. Let's do it. Let's do it. Let's do it. I am ready. Okay. Review, rate, and subscribe to Happy Say I Confused. Encourage more conversations with me and Michael Shannon by spreading the good word of this show. And enjoy this conversation with Mikey Shannon. I'm sure he loves being called Mikey. If you're listening, I love you, Mikey. How are you, Michael? Be honest with me. Well, I'm... My stomach's a little... upset, but other than that, I mean, I don't have

like a terminal illness or anything. Well, we don't know that. When's the last time you had a checkup? Well, I finally got a colonoscopy, and that came out clear. Is that true? Yeah, I've seen pictures of my colon, and he saw one little tiny polyp, but he just carved it off.

You can self-administer that. You can just do that yourself, just scoop that out in there. Maybe that's how things go into your house. We are roughly the same. You're a couple years older than me, shockingly. Really? We're roughly the same age. So we're facing the same health markers,

like where the colonoscopy start to happen and that kind of fun stuff. It's really a sober. Dementia. Yeah. That's hit. Yeah. That's it. You know me coffee. I feel like you learned how to podcast with me.

I feel like we came a, We came of age together on the podcast airwaves. Do people listen to this when they're working out? I do. I listen to the podcast when I'm working out. So should we be like... Keep going. Yeah.

Keep it up. Hey. Don't stop. Your ass looks great. Keep doing that. Yeah. What do you listen to at the gym? I don't listen to anything.

Silence? Just nothing? Yeah. I don't listen to anything. but sometimes I watch I'll get on the bicycle and they'll have you know scenic routes you can take

I like that but it's always like you have like two options and it's the same scenic route each time it's like I but I always look for the differences the subtle differences I don't think they're sometimes it'll be like a bear

hiding behind a tree that wasn't there the day before do you scream when you're on the treadmill yeah it must be alarming for your It's a motivator to pedal faster because you don't want to get mauled by a bear while you're at the gym. No, that would be actually a smart business strategy for, you know, the Curves franchise or whoever, whichever gym you frequent to... You seriously think I go to Curves?

How's the levels on this? Am I hitting the right levels? Yeah, that's good. This is the right distance from the mic? You're perfect. Thank you for being aware of such things. Most people don't even give a shit. Well, I've been doing this a long.

I know what's important. What's the first thing? What do you do first thing in the morning? You wake up. I say fuck again. Here we go, Ken. It's not over yet. I try to figure out whether I'm hung over or not.

And then, no, I usually, well, Monday through Friday is about getting the kids to school. Right. Whether you like it or not, you have to do that. You have to get up, and I usually put on WBGO, my favorite radio station, you know, excluding your, what is this a radio station? No, just don't even pretend like you care. No. W.J.O.S.H. Oh, I got it. Oh, that's good. I like it.

That's too many letters. WBGO is in Newark, New Jersey. It's a jazz radio station. and I listen to that that helps me deal with things. And then I make... The chaos of the children. I make a coffee in my beautiful new pink coffee maker. Oh.

That's more elaborate than it needs to be, but it makes me find it charming. And then I make breakfast. Usually Kate makes the lunch. Do kids still have like lunchbox? and that kind of thing? What's the, like, is there, like, I have very fond memories as a kid

of having, like, the branded with my favorite TV show lunchbox thing. Yeah, well, what was that, Facts of Life? I did like Facts of Life. Yeah, you had a Facts of Life lunchbox. I think it was like Night Rider. Give me a break. Give me a break.

What was good? Nell Carter. Nell Carter with your lunch. Here's your lunch. Nell Carter probably had a lot of lunch boxes. Wow, that's, I mean, come on. Respect the dead. Mmm, coffee's yummy.

Night Rider. That was probably. my bag. Night writer. That was good. Hasselhoff. Hasselhoff, yeah, yeah. He had an evil twin, Garth, that just had a mustache. That was the way to differentiate the evil twin. Are you saying that because I have a mustache right now? It just reminded me. What's the mustache for? I'm doing a television program mini-series called The Little Drummer Girl, based on the book by John Le Carre, Le Carre, Le Carre, One day I'll figure out how to say it

That's his numb to plume I know his real name I met his sons I'm not telling you he's a real name The man has a fake name for a reason I think what I think it's like available readily It's not I mean no it's secret He was in the he was a spy for Christ's

He can't give away his identity Okay his real name is Nina Haspel That's his real name Now we understand why he changed it Yeah, no Carter Yeah Yeah CIA? What do you think?

Oh, oh, Ms. Haspel dies and now I'm getting it. Well, you're a little slow on the uptake today, Josh. Do you have enough breakfast? I thought you said Nina Haspel. It's Gina. No, it's Nina. Is it really? Mm-hmm. Okay. I have my earclimes and everything, like a smart person.

Go ahead. Look it up. It's Nina. There she is. Read it. Read it. Gina. It's Gina Haspole. Yes. Yes. Highlight of the fucking day. I hope she doesn't torture me because I called her by the wrong name. Yeah, I think that's how it works.

Yeah, we've got to get Mike Shannon in here. My first mission as chief of the CIA is to torture Michael Shannon for calling me Nina. Would you ever play Donald Trump? I know you're a big fan. If some brilliance, if Charlie Kaufman had a brilliant take on the Donald Trump story. I would play Donald Trump only if the version of Donald Trump I was asked to play was his disembowed carcass. But the jury's out. We don't know. He could be the greatest president ever. I like what Ramin said calls him. He calls him the current tenant. That's how he refers to him.

Yeah, that's a kind way to put it, I suppose. Yeah, the current tenant. He won't even say his name. He's a disgusting, filthy mongrel of a human being. Yeah. The folks don't like it when I talk to politics, but I can't help it. I'm with you, man, all the way. He's the worst. I mean, nobody's going to listen to this anyway. That's true. We might as well speak our mind. That's true. So that when we're listening to it alone in our bedrooms, we can feel good about ourselves.

Like we didn't back down. Right. We took a stand as the nuclear apocalypse. As the missiles are falling, we can. As Iran is blowing Israel in the oblivion, we can listen to this podcast and know we did the right thing. And yet you're raising children in this very questionable world.

Oh, it's so lovely. such a lovely time. I just, I don't know. I mean, I hope, I try to make sure that they're just having fun right now. Like, enjoy your childhood. Right. You know, because when you're older and you have to shoot people to get water, it's going to be, it's going to be tough. Do you not think that this is a blip that we're, that there's no coming back from this? It's not a blip. This is not a blip. No. It's not a blip. but it's not even about him you know nicholas speaking of the new york times

that article nicholas i'm going to call him by the red crystal crystal christoph or christoph i want to say christoph oh wait maybe it is god damn he's a smart guy and he wrote a nice article about how we've got to stop paying so much attention to trump because there's all this really terrible stuff going on

while we worry about whether he paid off Stormy Daniels not to talk about having sex with him. Who freaking cares? A hundred years from now, nobody's going to care whether Stormy Daniels had sex with Donald Trump. But they're going to care because they can't breathe when they

go outside. They're not going to like that. My wife works for Natural Resources Defense Council, the NRDC. And as you can imagine, that job has changed in the last couple years. Oh my God. I mean, are they having any, are they able to do anything? I mean, I give them

money, but I don't... They are, their lawsuits up the wazoo, they actually are making a lot of inroads. I mean, thankfully, some of the states are stepping up where they have to, and frankly, other countries around the world are stepping up. Well, that's what I like. Yeah. I mean, but the crazy, someone was saying

this the other day, it's like that realization when, like, we have become the bad guy in the world. Oh, we're terrible, man. Well, I'm over in Europe all the time, now doing this show. I was in England and Greece, now I'm going to Czech Republic but it's like it's very hard to be an American abroad you know although a lot of people are pretty sympathetic I mean I think they're able to

ascertain that he probably wasn't my selection right pretty quickly so right you're wearing the America Great hat again ironically they don't they get that they get that well I'm wearing it backwards with my gold teeth it's my Kanye impersonation oh that's not sort of that that path too Anyway, well, it is a good segue to, because we should talk a little bit about your new film, your new collaboration with Romaine, Fahrenheit 451,

which I enjoyed, and this is a project that... You enjoyed. I did. I've seen it twice, man. I had a refresher, I saw it. On a scale of 1 to 10, what would you give it? I'm not a critic. That's the beauty of this. Oh, so you get to avoid accountability? Well, it would be

uncomfortable talking to... Look, in the case, luckily for you, generally speaking, you make very good films. But some of your brethren The percentage is a little lower, and I would hate to have to pretend to love their questionable material. You don't have that problem, is what I'm saying. Really? Yeah. When you look at your resume, what percentage of work would you say your couch?

Well, we weren't talking. No, I've been in some clunkers. Come on now. I'm not talking about kangaroo Jack. Well, this is, look, this is dangerous territory for me. Yeah, we don't. Obviously, that I'm not easily intimidated. readily spouting off at the mouth

as we speak, but... Well, you could say on a person... Do you ever get your own performance and say I flubbed it or I went the wrong way? It's never my fault. You being serious? It's never my fault. Well, you didn't make the movie.

But you're a key cog in the wheel. No, I'm not. Anybody could do it. It could be me. It could be Bronson Pinchot. It could be... Do you Bronson go up for the same rolls often? He's a bit older than me, I guess.

So that was your lunch spot, perfect, perfect strangers? No, I never ate lunch when I was a kid. It was awful. What do you mean? Lunch generally is awful? No, I never. Lunch is horrible, yes. No, I didn't get, I never had any money to get lunch.

Are we going down this path now, the sad childhood of Michael Shadden? I did have a sad childhood, God damn it. I had a non-lunch childhood I'll tell you that much Are you in therapy to work out your past demons? No Could you use it? No, I'm just, I'm just

I'm letting them loose on mankind This is your therapy, it's free You ever considered going into therapy? I mean, I feel like I know you well enough to know that that could be a fertile environment For you and the therapist There might be stuff to talk about It's all BS, man

You don't believe this? I'm not going to sit there and talk to some stranger and tell them, I only do that when I'm doing press. And then you're killing a couple of words of one stone. You're actually at least, yeah. You're always welcome here to just opine about. Well, maybe that could be your new podcast is you giving me therapy. I feel like we're already there.

How many people do you think would listen to that? Actually, maybe a shocking amount. You might get a bigger office. And a window. In a window. I get a lot of good feedback on the... We've only done one podcast. We've done a lot over the years, but only one podcast.

And it is one of the favorites of people, the last one we did. Sweet Jesus. With the Michael Shannon, the Zodd action figure. Oh, my God. Yeah, all that kind of fun stuff. That thing is so weird. I know. We covered it last time, so I don't encourage it, but you're still holding things that would never appear in the film.

It makes no sense. Did you... Do you enjoy Justice League? I haven't seen Justice League. Did you enjoy Avengers Infinity War? I haven't seen any comic book movies. I feel bad. I haven't even seen Black Panther,

which I particularly feel bad about because I'm hanging out with Mr. Jordan nowadays promoting the picture. But the only time I ever watch movies is on an airplane. That's a shame. You're a busy man. I keep flying back and forth to Europe, as I mentioned earlier.

Yeah. The flight to Athens is 10 hours. So are you watching a series? I watched. I started watching movies I've already seen before. On the last flight, I watched Anchorman. Well, I mean, in the like eighth hour of the flight, I was like, I need something to make me laugh. Did it work?

Yeah, it did. I think Steve Carell is so funny in that movie. When he says I ate a big red candle. I don't know why we're yelling. He's got a lot of classics in there. Brick is one of the great characters. characters of our time. It really is.

What was it going to say? No Star Wars, Last Jedi? I don't watch that crap. I don't care. How do you really feel? I don't care. I don't care. Look, when I was a kid, I liked that stuff, okay?

Okay. I had some Star Wars guys. I had my cousins, had a bunch of comic books. I'd go out and look at their comic books. But I got it out in my system. J.J. Abrams calls. Hey. I want you.

That was Marvel people don't want me. I met with Kevin. Fagie. Fagie. What'd you call him? Faggy. I met with him like 10 years ago. Yeah.

I got on my hands and knees and said, please, please, can't. Isn't there somewhere for me in the Marvel universe? Haven't heard of peep? Seriously? I mean, maybe it's because I did a D.C. thing. I don't know. Was there a specific role you were begging for or they were thinking about it? No, I don't know.

It's just a general. I didn't, you know, anybody. I like to, I remember the watchers. They were like, they hovered around in outer space. I, I would have done one of those. I could have done shade in my head and been one of those guys. So speaking of the mustache and shaving your head. Yeah.

You're a chameleon. You like to change yourself. What's the most you've gained or lost for a role, weight-wise? Oh, that shit's silly. I don't do that shit. No? That's ridiculous. Why do people do that?

I don't know. I'm not going to quarrel with something. Christian Bell makes it work. Actors, it's not about your body. It's about your... Look, I have a very supreme intellect, and that's what I use. I don't have to, like, do a colonic and drop 10 pounds.

Somebody was telling me a story the other day about... Well, never mind. I'm not going to tell that story. You can omit the name. It just has to do with colonics. Oh, wow. And the abuse of colonics in order, in an endeavor to lose weight in order to be on camera. And how it disturbed the people that had to clean the trailer.

No, no, no, no. They had to clean the toilets. Nope, nope. And it got to the point where they refused to go in there. They were done. They weren't going to, they weren't going to clean up this shit anymore. Literally. This person was like funneling coffee up their anus in an effort to, I don't know what.

So Maggie Smith did that for Downton Abbey. That's crazy. It wasn't Maggie Smith. Okay, that's one down. This is how I get that of you. It was a boy. Can I narrows it? It was a boy that I heard this story about, I should add.

I don't know whether it was even true. There are stories about it. But it was an entertaining story, and it gave me a chuckle on a hard day. So you don't believe in, what about like the methody kind of stuff, like drinking for a scene where you're supposed to be drunk or, you know, Shaya taking a drug when he wants to feel what it's like to be high or whatever? When did he do that? He did that for Charlie Countryman, that movie came back, came out a few years ago. What about American Honey? Do you think he did drugs on that? That was a good role, though. I don't know. I don't know if he did or not, but I thought that was pretty good.

That was an interesting movie. Yeah. So where do you come down on that kind of method of stuff? Well, I don't take drugs or drink unless I'm not at work. Yeah, that's your escape. Why use it on the... Yeah. That's fair.

I mean, well, actually, I don't take drugs at all. Drugs scared as shit on me. I used to, I tried to mess around with them, but they're terrifying. I don't know how people do drugs. I'm with you. I'll drink a little bit. That's the extent of my vices. You can really...

I mean, and it does such... It's terrible things. Look how many people that, I mean, people I know that I mean a lot to me that, you know, die. You know, it's awful. No. Yeah, I'm always, yeah, I don't know if I have an addictive personality, but I worry. You're addicted to me. That is true. You know, I think the general public, if they're still awake, should be, they should be made aware. They're on mile three right now. Keep going. Yeah. You're doing great. You did, your thighs, what is it, your calves, your thighs? What should the American public know? They should know that as many times as I've worked with you, collaborated with you on these things.

For every time I do it, there's 20 times where I say no. That's absolutely valid and true. Let's put in some good words about Fahrenheit 451. So, Rameen, I love your collaborations. I wouldn't, on a scale of 1 to 10. I would, oh, my goodness. I think it's, I would recommend it. Like what?

Like a hot dog place? Like, this place is good if you're in the mood for a hot dog. It held up on a second viewing. Okay. That's a good sign. Okay. I think you and Mike are Michael Shan. You and Michael B. Jordan.

You're confused, my friend. Well, you have me on the spot. I feel like I'm being grilled now, waterboarded. You and Michael B. Jordan are fantastic. together. I think it's a fascinating relationship. And I respect and love what Rameen does. I thought your work with him on 99 homes

was fantastic. And I think this is another solid piece of work. Yeah. Man. What? That is limp, man. It's just limp. This is why you respect me so much because I am a straight shooter with you. You peaked with General

Zod. We both know that. Yeah. That's... I'm having a hard time understanding why I continue doing this to be totally blunt about it. Like, haven't I, I mean, mission accomplished, right? You scaled the mountaintop. What am I going to do now? Like, am I going to just do old man roles?

Is that what I have to look forward to you? Like movies about old men going out for one last trip in Vegas or something, you know? That'd be good. I was just in Vegas. Are you a Vegas kind of guy? You're more AC, probably. You're Atlantic City guy. I've never been to Atlantic City, oddly enough, considering I was on a show about it.

That's right. I've been to Vegas a few times. Vegas is an unusual place. There's a headline. That's a breaking news. Yeah. Did you go see Brittany or Celine Dion or Sigridon or Roy? Oh, God.

What happened? you vomit well I was trying to stifle a burp and it kind of happened in my throat as opposed to coming out um last time I was there I was shooting something

I was shooting a movie called frank and Lola we shot that in Las Vegas yeah it was very surreal we had a scene in the win casino hotel we shot at night nights when the I mean the casino's still open

obviously but most people were asleep and we shot a scene in the restaurant there a couple of scenes actually that was a very strange it's a strange town

yeah so you're in the middle shooting the Jean-Lard Carre yes I assume is that your French you know he's not French no his name's Nell Carter he's going to give me a break

I'm not done I'm not done at all I'm going Oh, that's why you had Scars Guard on the mind. He's in that one, right? Yeah, he plays my wingman. He plays my, I don't know what you call it, protege. But he's not my protege, because he's kind of his own man. He's like this badass, like soldier, secret agent guy who can get things done.

He's a handler. You've graduated now to the mentor role between Fahrenheit 451, a little drummer girl. You are the guy. I'm a role model. No, let's not go that far. Be like me. I wonder how many people wake up in the morning and think if I could just be more like Michael Shannon. Do you think, what do I need, do I need to be less needy in the relationship for this to go, to get better?

Am I just showing my hand too much? Well, it's obviously, it's obvious that you adore me. You know, it's like, it's like, okay, when you're learning the ropes, when you're a young man about how to, woo a woman, you know? It's like you can't follow her around with your tongue dragging on the ground, you know, you've got to act cool, you know, you've got to act like you don't

care. And, you know, you can't do it. That's how women become interested in you. This is good. This is good advice for those on the treadmill thinking about wooing a young lady. Yes. I mean,

that's, I don't know. I, no, you're fine. Okay, okay. I'm You're making me self-conscious about this. It does feel like dating, frankly. It feels like unrequited love. And it feels like we're going to be in this tumultuous back and forth for the next 30 years. And I just don't know where it goes.

I just enjoy antagonizing you. I mean, I guess that's valid. I mean, it's a sign of affection, honestly. I mean, the people that I give a hard time to and antagonize and call names and every once a while maybe you know punch on the arm or grab their squeeze their nipple or whatever yeah that's happened yeah that's you that means i like you okay okay great mission accomplished yeah um any any pros to being an oscar winning film does your life change being part of that you've already you've already got the name recognition and the the good seat in the restaurant what is what is the

win of the shape of water do for your life i just feel so lucky I'm in that movie. Great movie. I'm really like, because like I said earlier, you know, we were talking about, you get into some projects

and you work hard on them, but there's no guarantee how it's all going to shake out because my contribution is literally not a large, very large percentage, really. It's mostly other people and you have to trust them

and their vision and what they're going to do with the materials. So when you're in something and something like that, it's just very, it's exciting. Do you feel like you have more license now to not wash your hands in public? It's like, oh, I'm doing a bit. Well, but that's in the bathroom.

I don't want anybody looking at me when I'm in the bathroom. And I don't want. I don't want anybody paying attention to me at all. Have you been approached for autographs and selfies in the bathroom? Oh. Really? People can be pretty stupid. No, you're right.

You're right. But no. Oh, man. No, I don't think that's happened to me yet. See, you haven't hit the nadir yet of your career because that will happen. That's the next level, huh? Yeah. That's what I have to look forward to.

There are a couple of things that occur to me as I look at the uvra. You haven't done, though music is a big part of your life. You haven't sung in a film, I believe, yet. Well, I tried. I mean, I sang a song in Elvis and Nixon, but they cut it out. I'm sorry. It was bummed me out because it was cool. It was like Elvis driving to the White House in the limousine,

and he's so happy that he starts singing the battle hymn of the Republic. it was really cool and I thought I sang it okay but I guess they thought it it wasn't as good as Elvis so they cut it out do you have an interest in a full-on

movie musical? Have you gone because those are kind of in vogue they're happening with some regularity now movie musicals? Yeah you know your greatest showman Mary Poppins

I don't know huh does that appeal to you at all? I'm getting a no Okay All right, okay, got it, got it What about You got to understand

I don't want to go to work ever at all Musical That makes no sense Okay, let's parse that out for a second I just want to You have like four movies every year I know, but it's like And you direct a play and you start

What are you talking about? I don't want to just go to the gym What's happening? You're a grown man. You can say no to things. Go to the gym and ride on the little bicycle. Are you going to go to the woods? Like that little bicycle?

The one where you can sit down where it's really not that difficult. Okay. I just imagine you on a little unicycle. Yeah, yeah. What kind of gym you're at? It's a circus gym. I think you're in a playground. Yeah.

It's a playground. Oh, here's where he turns. Wait. I do the slides. Okay, you keep complaining. I just don't want to work. I don't want to work. Then why are you working?

I don't know. Okay. I have to pay the bills. You're doing fine. Well, I, but... Directing a play in Chicago is not paying the bills, I'm guessing. I'm hemorrhaging money, you know. What do you pay?

Himmaging. What are you paying for? It's not on your t-shirts. Look at that. You have no idea how many bills I got. What's your biggest bill? Oh, Jesus. And plus, they take it all anyway.

Okay. Let's say, you know, you make X dollars. Uh-huh. There's, you know, the government, the agent, the people. Wait, you're paying taxes? I thought you were like Wesley Snipes. You just sort of do your own thing.

No, I have an accountant that's very responsible and make sure that I give all of the appropriate funds to the United States and state and local governments. Oh, no, you're having a stroke. I might be having a stroke. You are not doing... Are you prepared to deal with that? If I have a stroke, you know what to do?

Yeah, I'm shoved my wall in your mouth. You were not doing things like Farnight 451 or directing a play in Chicago to become a millionaire. I did Farnight 451 because I really believe in Ramin. I think he's a very special person. And I thought it was, you know, pretty timely. Yeah. I mean, it's interesting because it is kind of,

an old-timey book, so he had to kind of connoiter it and re-connoiter it a little bit. It's very different from the book. People going and expecting to see the book in its entirety will be devastated.

Yeah, I'd be curious to go back. I bet this movie doesn't date well, but the, who did it, or was it Truffaut? Did the... Trouvae, Jean-de-Réz-Trufeo? Yeah. um that even in my distant memory that feels like it's probably a pretty dated i've never seen it but i i i every once in a while i hear somebody say that they really

like it but for the most part most people are like you're not missing anything yeah yeah this is a project because i remember i've followed it for years because i remember mill gipson wanted to direct it and a lot of people were attached to different incarnations of it so i'm glad it it got there with you guys. And Michael, I mean, he's the real deal, Mr. Jordan. Michael B. Why didn't you have him in? Does he know who you are? Yeah, Michael and I go, yeah, we've done a ton. He's not on your board here. Okay, A, he doesn't live in New York. And B, I didn't even realize he was in town until I saw the photos at your little premiere the other day. He's huge, man. He's all jacked up. Oh, my God. Yeah. He's doing Creed, too. Yeah. When you see Black Panther. Whop your ass.

You'll see in Black Panther, like Chadwick, Bozeman, who plays Black Panther, he's obviously in an incredible shape. And then, like, there's a scene not to ruin anything. But when Michael takes off his shirt, you're like, this is next level. That guy's going to kick this shit out of Black Panther. He's amazing. And, like, so focused. Chadwick was good and, what I mean, good. Chadwick was amazing in that James Brown movie.

Yeah, get on up. I saw that on the plane. Yeah. You should do plane movie reviews. You could just do your little. Yeah. Plain movie. Man, that guy.

Playing James Brown. That's a tall... Sweet Jesus, was he good? Okay, another thing I don't think you've ever done? You've never done a voice in like an animated. That'll never fucking happen. Why? Because they don't want you or you don't want them?

I don't want to do that crap. People say, you should do it. You have kids. I'm like, so what? They can listen to other people do it. They don't need to listen what they think. They know it's me. What's it going to do?

I would find that distracting. I'm like, ah, dad. That's not a kangaroo. It's dad. I know that's not a mongoose. It's dad. Right. Right.

I know it's not a toaster. It's dad. Okay. There wasn't toast. Oh, I got cooking a toaster. Oh, thank you for clarifying. Are they into the Harry Potter? Do you read to them?

Speaking of the... Sylvie's reading Harry Potter, like, I've never seen anything like it. Yeah. She reads it any time there's... any sort of gap in her itinerary she's reading harry potter it's crazy right i don't know how old it because i have nieces that are she's 20 stop too i have nieces who are at that right age too and they're yeah they devour it's crazy yeah crazy um you should take them to you a theme park guy you strike me as a big theme park guy no wizarding world what what what are you talking about you should go

a theme park well they but first i got to take her to the show they got to the show they got to show on Broadway. I saw it. It's good. Oh. It sounds about like Fahrenheit 451 in your book. Yeah, it's

it held up on a second view. It's a very solid piece of, it's a little, solid piece of work. I saw it twice, so it did hold up on a second viewing. Look, if I don't... It's super solid. If I don't hold back a little bit, then the actual praise means nothing.

Isn't that true? So where were you... What are you excited about nowadays? It's all over. As you know, as we started, there's nothing left. We're all just like running in place till the apocalypse. One of us needs to be positive, I suppose, but that's not happening. Well, you're smiling a lot.

It looks like you're having a good time. Really? Yeah. Those are just the happy set confused photos. Oh, that's right. That's what this show's called, isn't it? Don't pretend like you don't listen to every episode. Dude, I don't...

I swear to God. This could all be fake, and I wouldn't even know. It is. How's Jeff Nichols? You guys work on anything? I'm going to make a music video for his brother's band. That's cool. That Jeff's going to direct.

Okay. I think. That's something. Lucero. That's the name of the band? You haven't heard of them? Lucero. Ben Nichols, Jeff's brother.

They're a great rock and roll band. Yeah, they're solid. They've got a super solid record coming out. And we're going to do a nice little music video for it that'll be pretty kind of entertained. Do you write? Right, no. No?

You directed recently in Chicago, right? Yeah. Yeah, well, I've directed a play twice. I've done that twice. I wrote some songs. for my band which isn't together anymore and um or well one of the guys moved to LA so I don't know what we're gonna do I mean I can't when we if we play a game flying from LA so and what else right but no I don't I'm not gonna write like a

screenplay or any of that I'm not gonna do that no you're you don't emulate your Your buddy, Tracy Letts, he's... No, Tracy Letts is a wildly talented human being and very intelligent. Yeah, it's almost obnoxious. He just had a kid, you know. Carrie, that's quite a power couple. That kid's going to be a good actor, presumably. Yeah.

Yeah, I would think. So, still splitting time, New York and Chicago? Yeah, back and forth a bit? I'll be in Chicago this summer doing this country. crazy old play that nobody's heard of ever. So why are you doing that? I'm not a question that you shouldn't do it. That play I'm doing because it makes me laugh.

That's good. Because I like to laugh, you know. I do know that. I like to relax and laugh, roll around on a floor. Are you a dog? Are you a dog? My thumb. Oh.

Scream. Right. Do you do any vocal exercises before you get on stage? Speaking of screaming? No. No, I didn't go to drama school, so I don't really know. It's just all instinct, all... You just got to show up, man. You just got to keep showing up. Have you ever taught an acting class? Would you ever want to do that?

No. Never. No, I don't want to do that. I don't know. Everyone has a different way of doing it, you know? Right. Who am I just say? I don't know. Who is the greatest living actor on the planet right now? Your estimation. Or you can give me a top five, whatever. It doesn't need to be a definitive.

Isn't it, I thought it was Daniel Day Lewis? Well, it seems... Arguably, he's retired now, so maybe he's... I mean, he is alive, but he's... I thought he was the one. Is that what we all decided collectively? It's, I thought. I mean, I'm not going to quarrel with it.

He's amazing. Did you like Phantom... Better than me? No, it's not. Did you like Phantom Thread? I really, really, really... did actually, although I found it difficult to watch.

We were on a plane and it was first spot. No, I actually was at the premiere. I guess it was a premiere. Or it was some sort of screening that you get invited to and then they have a party afterwards. And it was lovely, but it's kind of a hard movie.

I mean, it's uncomfortable. It gets under your skin. I thought it's played, as of, speaking of comedy, I thought it played pretty damn funny. Yeah, but then she starts, like, drugging him, and I don't like that. Right. That's not your thing.

Well, I was there with my wife. Don't get any ideas. I think my wife actually was getting it a little uncomfortable. Yeah, it's intense. I mean, yeah, it kind of, you know, points out the futility of male-female relationships. I suppose, but there are exceptions of the rules. rule? I haven't seen many. You're in a good relationship.

Yeah, we're killing it. We're getting it done. We're married. We've got two kids. Living the American dream. Bought a house. We're going to have a house. Here in New York. That I got to pay for. Okay. With the bills. You're doing better than me.

Well, that's not my. my fault. It's not my foot on your neck, buddy. Podcasts barely pay the bills. Well, diversify. I do diver. If you'd say yes to some of our shenanigans, that's diversifying. I gave you that adorable things. I gave you that. You know, it was a gift for me to you. I recently did a sketch with your current war buddy, Benedict Cumberbatch. He's not too good for me. He's so handsome. Those cheekbones. Get lost in those. He's Dr. Strange. Do you see that one? No.

I know a lot of those guys. I know these guys. Okay, you know, fine. Hemsworth, I know. Yeah. Evans. Yeah? I know that guy.

Okay. Are you trying to win points with me? That doesn't excuse you from not seeing the movie. I mean, some of these are actually good movies. They're good movies. You should support your friends. Okay, so what happens in Infinity Ward? I'm not going to.

So, like, every superhero goes up against a giant purple, Josh Brolin person. Pretty much. And let me guess. The Avengers somehow managed. He's trying to, what, destroy the universe, and the Avengers managed to stop him from doing this? See, this is why you...

No, actually. No, Michael. Oh, that's not what happens? No. I thought he's had this amulet, and he's trying to get these jewels. They have different powers. It's an infinity gauntlet.

Like, there's one jewel that will destroy a planet if you want it to. Kind of. Like, who the hell wants... We're doing that. need any help with that. We're taking care of that. We don't need a gauntlet. A purple guy with a gauntlet. Yeah. We're just doing that

just fine on our own. Right. Anything else you want to get off your chest before I release you? Is this over? Thank fucking God. No, don't be like that. Oh, man. This is your therapy session for today. Oh, Jesus. How do you think we did this time?

On a scale of 1 to 10? I think it was a very solid interview Be nicely quaintly entertaining You know it was good too? Intermittently entertaining You know it was good too? I liked what they had That's coming out later this year too

What they had is a badass movie I really did like that woman she killed it man Very touchy She really did Elizabeth She's really talented man This is well maybe we'll talk later in the year But it's you

It's a Hilary Swank Black Danner amazing like and very change of pace for you and uh i think yeah a really mean a change of pace for me well no i just like that look we've talked about the type casting and shit which i think you've broken out of many times in recent years but like that's a that's a i don't know that's a so you think every part i've played since kangaroo jack is basically been the same person is that not saying that i'm frankie lombardo and general zod are basically essentially the same person I'm just saying

I don't think I've seen Kim Fowley and Richard Kuklinski are this same person Do you keep in touch with Winona? Why are you asking me that? No, I haven't spoken to Winona in quite a long time. Do you still have the flip phone?

Let me see your phone. Oh, I'm not even having this fucking conversation. Let me see the phone. Do you have a phone on you? I don't want to go through this with you. What is that you need? Why is this such an unpleasant topic? This shouldn't be.

Because I know exactly what's going to fucking happen. What's going to happen? See? You're so not surprising me right now. It's a long story. I can tell it. I don't want your five people listening to this shit, the ball of sleep. Guys, Michael Shannon has an iPhone.

Michael Shannon has an iPhone. What's the background screen? Are you going to bleep all the swear words out? Any photo? No? You turned it off. Yeah, I turned it off. I have respect.

Is it a photo of me in the background? What if the phone went off? How are... You want me to turn it on here? I'll turn it on. Okay. So why do you have an iPhone? I'm with a phone provider called Credo.

Okay? They defer liberal progressive causes. They like give money. They're being very nice. You know, because most of the telecommunication companies are like fascist all right wing idiots but these people they actually like you know have social justice

involved in what they do okay so anyway my phone broke and I called them and it had a little what do you call it a menu of the different kinds of phones you could get when they had a flip phone way at the bottom and I called them on and I said yeah I went to flip phone

and they said uh you don't really do that anymore I'm like well you have it on your menu here And they're like, well, yeah, we can send you an iPhone. I'm like, I don't want an iPhone. I want the little flip phone. So I had to like beg them to send me a flip phone, which eventually they sent me a flip phone and they said, this is not a new flip phone. It's an old flip phone that's been refurbished, whatever that means.

So they sent it to me. And the damn thing did not work, like, at all. Like I It was driving me insane It would take me 15 minutes to write a text Because the keys I'd have to hit it like 20 times

Well and it's a flip phone And it's a flip phone And that's what it No no Because I've been texting With flip phones for years Quite well Without any worries whatsoever

This phone was a piece of garbage It didn't work So I said Seriously is this the only flip phone Did you found in the bottom Of the closet You know underneath somebody? these old shoes or what

and he said look we just we don't we don't get new flip phones anymore we don't get them we don't I'm like well then it shouldn't be on the menu you shouldn't have it on the menu right and I was like ah fine send me the damn iPhone because a month had gone by I was missing

calls and people were trying to get a hold of me and I was like just send me the fuck just saying how's it but you know what's interesting about it is that okay so fine I have the fucking thing yeah but I decide how I use it. I do basically

what I did on the flip phone. I make calls and I text. I don't have games. I don't watch shows. I don't read blogs or any of this crap. I just text people and call them. Every once in a while I take a picture.

Like I took a picture of the address here so that I could remember how to get here. This is a self-portrait that my daughter drew. at school that's amazing marian's self-portrait that's very sweet fuck off you want to swap in a photo of me on the background explain it to your daughter this is daddy's new friend daddy's new friend

they're gonna have to meet me at some point anyway they might as well you're gonna come over well is that an invitation I thought this was only supposed to be 45 minutes I was trying to wrap it up 10 minutes ago and then you went on a 10 minute ramped about your phone. No, you've, you baited me into that. You pounced on, you took advantage of me. I have to go, I have to go talk about myself with somebody else now.

Seth Myers. Well, there's one in between that. Oh, shit. I'm talking about myself all day long. All right. Whether you like it or not. Michael. World.

Michael, it's been fantastic. Yeah. I think we really broke. some new ground today and, uh, well, we'll see where we'll, we'll see five years from now when we do this again. Don't sit. That's mean. 20 years from now. We'll see. We'll both be dead by that. Let's be honest. Yeah. Okay. I'm going to exchange info. What's your email address? I'm not giving you my email address. What's your phone number? Five-five. Not on the, we're on air right now. All right. Bye, Mike. All right. Bye, bye, Josh.

And so ends another edition of happy, sad, confused. Remember to review, rate, and subscribe to this show on iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm a big podcast person. I'm Daisy Ridley, and I definitely wasn't pressured to do this by Josh. The Old West is an iconic period of American history and full of legendary figures whose names still resonate today. Like Jesse James, Billy the Kid, and Butch and Sundance, Sitting Bull, Crazy Horse, and Geronimo, Wyatt Earp, Batmasterson, and Bass Reeves, Buffalo Bill Cody, Wild Bill Hickok, the Texas Rangers, and many more. Hear all their stories on the Legends

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