Happy Sad Confused - Michael Shannon, Vol. IV

Episode Date: March 24, 2025

The Happy Sad Confused spirit animal is back! The dry and brilliant actor that is Michael Shannon returns to rib Josh, spread the good word of his new directing effort, ERIC LARUE, and talks tattoos and Oscar night regrets. UPCOMING EVENT! Paul Feig -- April 6th in Miami -- ⁠Tickets here!⁠ C2E2 events in Chicago April 12th -- ⁠Tickets here⁠! SUPPORT OUR SPONSORS! Quince -- Go to Quince.com/happysadco for 365 day returns and free shipping! Check out the ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Happy Sad Confused patreon here⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠! We've got discount codes to live events, merch, early access, exclusive episodes, video versions of the podcast, and more! To watch episodes of Happy Sad Confused, subscribe to ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Josh's youtube channel here⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

There you are, pushing your newborn baby in a stroller through the park. The first time out of the house in weeks. You have your Starbucks, venty, because, you know, sleep deprivation. You meet your best friend, she asks you how it's going, you immediately begin to laugh, then cry, then laugh cry, that's totally normal, right? She smiles, you hug, there's no one else you'd rather share this with. You know, three and a half hour sleep is more than enough. Starbucks, it's never just coffee.

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Get almost, almost anything delivered with Uber Eats. Order now. Alcohol and select markets. Product availability may vary by Regency app for details. What are the toughest lines generally for you to? Like, is it exposition? Like, what's the stuff, the tough stuff? The hardest line I've ever had to say is, oh, hi, Josh. It's so nice to see you again. That's the hardest line of dialogue I've ever had to say.

Prepare your ears, humans. Happy, sad, confused begins now. Hey, guys, Josh here. Welcome to another edition of Happy, Sad, Confused. We have a very special treat for those of, you that have listened to the podcast for many years. There's one man that comes up maybe more than anybody else. My Spirit Animal is back.

It's Michael Shannon on Happy, Say, I'm confused where he belongs today. I believe it's his fourth appearance on the show. Look forward to that indescribable Michael Shannon magic coming into your eyes and ears, depending on how you're consuming this very soon on this episode of Happy, Sad, Confused. Before we get to all of that, the usual reminders, I'll keep this brief. But we just did a live event in New York City with Nathan Lane. That is going to be on our next episode, dropping in just a few days. It was fantastic.

He's amazing. I don't need to sell you on that. He's an icon. Amazing. All which is to say, we do a lot of live events. And we've got a couple ones coming up in cities outside of New York for a change. So if you happen to be, drumroll, in Miami, Florida on April 6th, come on out and see me and Paul Feig. We're going to be screening another simple favor.

the sequel to a simple favor, nearly a month before it comes out. And then I'm going to be chatting with him for a career conversation. That's April 6th in Miami. Very cool. And then, if you happen to be in Chicago or want to drop by at C2E2 on April 12th, get a load of this. I'm going to be talking to the likes of John Boyega, the stars of Once Upon a Time, Peter Weller and Nancy Travis. I said the wrong Nancy recently, and someone pointed it out to me. Nancy. No, Nancy Travis is the other great actor from the 80s that I'm thinking of Nancy Allen. There it is. It came to me. Nancy Allen of force of Brian DePalma fame and Robocop fame. So whatever. Her and Peter Weller are coming back together for a Robocop panel in Chicago. And then best of all, and they're all great. But most historic of all is a 40th annual reunion of the Breakfast Club, all of them together. So come on by. If you're in Chicago, if you want to come on by and make a day.

it. You're going to see a whole lot of me at C2E2. All the information is in the show notes. And speaking of information, check out our Patreon. Patreon.com slash happy, say I confused. All of our episodes go up there early. We try to give you guys extras and bonuses and discounts and autograph merch. We have some new autographed posters from Nathan Lane, for instance. All of that and more at patreon.com slash happy, say I confused. That's your go-to destination. If you're a true diehard Josh Harrow with Happy Say I Confused lover. Okay, main event. Michael Shannon, everybody. I'm obsessed with Michael Shannon. I've been so for over a decade, 15 years since whatever I started to chat with him. He is dry, dark, funny, and most importantly, insanely talented. Our conversations are like no other. It's just get ready, strap in. There's a certain cadence and speed and passive aggression throughout our chats, and I'm here for it, and hopefully you are too.

His new film is called Eric Leroux, and look, I'm always there to support Michael, and this is a special one. This is his film directing debut. It's been a long time in the making. It's finally getting a nice release from Magnolia Pictures on April 4th. Michael is behind the camera, but in front of the camera, some stellar talents, including Judy Greer and Alexander Scarsguard. It's a dark story, a sad story, dealing with a school shooting. but come for the amazing acting and the great writing and the directing of Michael Shannon. So, yeah, theaters, April 4th.

I believe it's on VOD and all the other fun things a week after. But support our guy because he's one of the greats. Okay, without any further ado, let's get right to it. As I always say, he's my spirit animal. He is a unicorn. He is also pound for a pound. One of the most talented actors working today. I'm always here for him.

and hopefully you are too. Enjoy my conversation, my catch-up with the legend, Michael Shannon. Michael Shannon. We're giving the people what they want. The people of Earth demand Shannon or ways. Yes.

And especially this combo, obviously. The Shannonites have demanded it. And here we all. Yeah. Are you ready for this? I don't know if it'll be as, I don't know, I don't know if there'll be as many fireworks

is there usually are. Don't start at that place with that kind of attitude. There won't be, but we have the capacity. You're really going to have to push me. Okay, I'm here for you. I'm here for you. By the way, do your fans, have they come up with a moniker? Are they the Shannon heads, the Shannonites, just people of the taste.

I like the Shannonites. Yeah. It's kind of like the Mennonites. Shamanites. Yeah. I don't know. I don't know that I have that many fans. Do I have that many fans?

Don't play humble with me. You know they're out. there you know um i guess yeah i don't know i'm trying to like just be a regular guy josh you know that's impossible for you have you ever seen a michael shannon tattoo out in the wild oh i i haven't seen it in a wild but i've seen pictures on the internet yeah people get they have me tattooed on their bodies that's commitment that's nuts yeah one of these days i have to i have to i have to I have to show you my release the world engine tattoo I got. I haven't shown it to you yet in person.

Where is it? Where do you think it is? Three guesses. Oh, my God. Josh Horowitz, elevating the conversation since when, since 19, no, not even 15, 2000, what? We'll get to your classy movie in a minute, but we're going to start base. By the way, what was the, you know, I'm contractually obligated to talk about that line. What was the, do you remember the intent behind it?

Do you remember the direction? What was in your head when you were reciting that amazing line? Well, I'm trying to turn Earth into Krypton. So the World Engine will kind of devane Earth and insert Krypton into the Earth. Yeah. This is exactly what I wanted. but thank you. Thank you for parsing that out for me. Does that not sound like a valid explanation?

No, it's great. What are the toughest lines generally for you to? Like, is it exposition? Like, what's the stuff? The hardest line I've ever had to say is, oh, hi, Josh. It's so nice to see you again. That's the hardest line of dialogue I've ever had to say.

We did catch up and tell you right in person. That was the last time we got together. I'll be honest. I felt like you were, you were a little poopy. I feel like you were in a poopy mood that day. Maybe it was the elevation. I don't know. Yeah, I think it was the long trip.

You were in the middle of shooting something from a long ways away, too. Oh, God. Yeah, I came from like, where'd I come from Europe? No, not Europe. Budapest? Were you in Budapest? Yeah, that's in Europe. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

You're not, you're not poopy today because you're, you're spreading the good word of your wonderful movie, right? I'm just trying to stay on an even keel, you know? It's all about even keel these days. That's like going back to the beginning of the conversation, you're going to have a hard time getting me to go off because I'm on an even keel nowadays. We'll see.

We'll see. There are some life developments that I wanted to mention. I never thought you would join Instagram. How's the Instagram wife treating you, Michael? I haven't looked at my page in a long time. yeah that's it served a purpose at the at the moment it was i'll tell you why that happened i was talking to my daughter sylvia before the election and she said dad you have to say something to the people and i said what she said you have to get on the social media and say something i said

honey nobody cares what i think she said that's not true you have to go on like instagram or something and make a little speech. And because I love my daughter so much, I did. I did something that I sure I would never do. And I went on the Instagram and I made a little speech. And I solved all the problems with my little speech. Look, at least you did what you could. I think that's very sweet because she's probably hears it from you.

We all hear it in our respective homes, what we're agonizing over. And if we're not using our platforms for something, especially in those extreme cases, sadly it didn't pan out the way we wanted it to, but you at least tried. Yeah, yeah, I did. But then once the event had taken place, I stopped paying any attention to it. So I hope there's not like an emergency situation there that needs my attention because it won't get it. So basically it's Instagram in case of dire emergency.

So we're hoping we don't see you on Instagram. If we see you on Instagram, it's a bad sign, basically. Yeah, it means something terrible is happening. Great. Great. All right, let's read the good word of this. I know this has been a long journey for you. How are you?

You must be experiencing, what, a sense of relief, happiness that finally this baby of yours is getting the release, the exposure that it demands. Has it been kind of a – I mean, because you shot this a while ago, has it been a long kind of frustrating journey? me a sense of your head the last couple of years of trying to get this out in the world? Well, I wasn't completely shocked by how difficult it was, because it's a difficult film, and it's not, you know, it's not necessarily, I don't know, the traditional crowd pleaser, but that's fine. I knew that when I made it. And, you know, all these, a lot of the company

that put movies out right now have had a lot of trials and tribulations over the last few years and everybody's a little anxious and that makes sense too, you know? I mean, there are easier ways to

make money than these kind of films. So that's fine. I accept all of it happily. But I'm very, Very happy that we wound up at Magnolia. I've respected Magnolia for a number of years, and I love their taste, and they seem

very committed and invested, and I think it actually, I think the delay on the release of the film has perhaps even been beneficial, because I feel like now is the time for this film to come out. I mean, I think I don't have any complaints. I don't have any complaints. I've seen other people go through, you know, more arduous journeys to get their film out than me. I mean, you talk about it like, you know, being relevant now.

The saddest part about this, obviously, probably is that it's always relevant. It's, is that this is this, we're in this perpetual cycle in this film. The film what we're talking about is Eric Leroux, and it is an exceptional piece of work. You did great, man. And no surprise, it has great performances throughout from Judy Greer, Alexander Scarsgaard, Paul Sparks, your buddy, like a lot of, you know, familiar faces. Just give me a sense of the history of this, because this goes back a long ways as a theater piece that you were all done. Yeah, yeah. Well, the first time I saw Eric Leroux was in 2002.

I saw it at this theater that I belong to in Chicago called Red Orchid Theater. I had just done bug at Red Orchid That was the fall of 2001 I was doing bug at Red Orchid when 9-11 happened And Bug ran for a while And then the next play after Bug was Eric Leroux And I was not in it I didn't direct I had nothing to do with it

But when it opened I would just I just keep going to see it Because I was fascinated by it I'd never seen anything like it before and and at that time that was the first play of brett's that we did at red orchid um so brett was a new entity to us and his voice is very distinctive and unique i think and so yeah i uh i was smitten and then um you know a lot of people think that brett wrote this play as a response to columbine but, frankly, the play predates Columbine.

So I don't know if he's clairvoyant or what, but that's kind of spooky. And for those that don't know, we should say this does deal with the parents of a school shooting, a school shooter and how they deal with the grief and the coping and how religion plays a part and community. And look, I mean, it's also interesting. I'm sure you've gotten this question,

but like you first encounter this. correct me if I'm wrong, before you're a parent. So it probably hits a little differently for you now. Is that fair to say? Yeah, for sure, although I've never, you know, I suppose. Yeah, but it's also, you know, even if you don't have children, this kind of thing is very upsetting. But, yeah, the thought that this could happen to one of my children, yeah.

You just, it's, it's, it's kind of a no-fly zone, like your mind just, uh-huh. Yeah, you don't even want to go there. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, yeah, but I feel like, you know, as much as it's about what it's about, what you just said, I feel like it's just kind of also about the general state of things in our country, as it were, and kind of this dysfunctionality that I associate with our culture, you know, that in a place that goes by the moniker, you know, United States of America, that people can feel so alienated and lost and lonely

and disenfranchised that they continue to do things like this. It doesn't really... It's confusing to me. I find America is a very confusing country, and I feel like this film is kind of about that. So the plan, as I understand it, though,

you've never talked about, like, wanting to direct, having that be on the bucket list. So it's this particular material that just kind of kept drawing you back. Oh, yeah. Yeah, I was like I couldn't help myself which is really what it would have had to have been

in order for me to do it. Because I always assumed that it would just be a nightmare directing a film. But it wasn't. It's strange. It wasn't a nightmare at all. I always said I'd have a hard time sleeping if I directed a film.

I'd just lay awake all night, worrying about all the things the director is responsible for you know but uh i think if you surround yourself with uh the right artists you know that are all as invested as you are and and are bringing everything they have to the table and then it's really not it's surprising it's not as difficult as i thought it was going to be well you're you're also as i said before you're mixing it up with people that you obviously love and respect and getting to kind of give them a platform to do what they do best. And I know a big part of this, a big selling point as it should be, is to see someone we all know and love, Judy Greer, who haven't necessarily seen in this kind of context before. We know she's

like, historically, one of the funniest, you know, character actors around, but to see her front and center and something like this. And not for a moment, you know, question it as a testament to what she can do. So that just must be like day in and day out, seeing. her, you know, six inches from your face, a foot from your face, doing that must be really stimulating. Yeah, she's so, she's so directable. Like, she's such an amazing listener, and she's so, she's so smart, and she can pivot. Like, she doesn't hold on to anything.

Like, you can really throw her a curveball, and she'll catch it. Like, you know, I've just felt an offensive. with Judy, Judy, ever since we, ever since we met, you know, we met making this film Pridersville, and then we did an episode of Room 104 together. And, yeah, I just always thought, man, she's just, so she's easy to be around. Uh, she makes everybody, she makes everybody happy. Yeah. She very, she pays attention to, to everyone else. And, yeah, she's, she's very, she pays attention to everyone else. And yeah, she's a real team player.

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Oh, hi, buddy. Who's the best you are? I wish I could spend all day with you instead. Uh, Dave, you're off mute. Hey, happens to the best of us. Enjoy some goldfish cheddar crackers. Goldfish have short memories. you like Goldfish.

You've obviously directed a lot in theater, so you're not a stranger to directing actors, but I'm curious on a set like this for a film experience. Like, did you direct your actors, Judy, and the company in a way, like the way you like to be directed? Is that very conscious on your mind? Yeah. I mean, for me, it's a very private thing, you know, and it's not result-oriented. at all. Like I never talked in terms of, you know, I would never go up and say, I think you should

just do it a little faster. Like, I would never do that. It was, if anything, I was always trying to talk about it in the context of it not being a scene at all. Like, just, like, genuinely saying, what? If you were in this situation, like how would. What you wish would happen? When you say this, right. What are you trying to get him to do? Or what, like, why are you here? You know, just like trying to make it seem like, you know, it's the thing we do. You're trying to trick yourself into going to wherever you're meant to be, you know. But it was very private.

I would always go up and confide in them. I didn't want everyone else to hear what I was telling. But Judy said, she said it became a game for her to like try and figure out when I had whispered to Alex. She's like, I'm going to figure it out. I'm going to figure out what you told him. Like, okay, go ahead. So is that from experience like being on a set? Do you not like it when a director kind of like openly says something in front of other actors?

Yeah, I think it's very delicate and fragile. And I think if you do that, you're robbing the other people of the opportunity to experience. that fresh like fresh in front of the camera you know uh like it's all about being surprised the end of the day like not it's it's it's so it's such a you know it's such a you know it does a number on your head but you're you're really even though everything is written down and you you know what you're supposed to say and you know what they're going to say back And, you know, you're trying to dispense with that or make it go away and make it feel like, you know, you don't know what's going to happen next. And that's a phenomenally difficult thing to do.

Right. All about tricking yourself and others. So the less, anything that can help that cause, I'd as well try. Surprises, little surprises. Yeah. Yeah. I'm curious also, look, this is a film about the consequences of violence. Obviously. And look, you've been in films that have dealt with violence, that have been violence, have had violence involved for entertainment, you know, in the pursuit of entertainment, whatever.

Like, do you have, do you have, has that evolved over the years? Like, are you okay if it's just like cartoonish violence and it's just is what it is for that sake or are you more squeamish as you get older? I mean, I'm curious, like, does that factor in at all? Oh, gosh. Well, I'm assuming you're talking about. like the world engine movie. Is that what you're doing that? You know what I thought about too is like bullet train rush? What? Bullet train. Remember how you go down bullet train?

Very violent, isn't it? But bullet train is so, I don't know, it's so obviously not. It's a cartoon. Approaching reality. Yeah. Look, I can deal with it. I can separate it.

But I know some people do have issues with that. I'm just curious if that factors in. It's so funny you said it because I just watched Pulp Fiction again a couple of nights ago. I hadn't seen it since it came out. And I was at this little art house movie theater and they were showing. I was like, oh, I'm going to go see that. And it's just so silly. I mean, it's so violent, but it's so silly that it doesn't, yeah, it didn't.

I mean, for me, you know, violence. I'm always more upset by actual violence than film violence. I mean, film violence, I guess because I know that I really actually know how unreal it is. I mean, like I was there. I saw, you know, all the safety coordinators and stunt coordinator. and people with pads on and oh, that's made out of rubber and this is a green screen

and, you know, it's actually, you know, making film violence is one of the most tedious processes known to man. It's, uh, right. I don't, it's not fun. Yeah, I would imagine low on the list is the squibs and going through all that and the,

oh, it's just, it's just really tedious. Yeah. Um, but, you know, To the extent that it inspires people to be violent, you know, I don't know. Yeah, I'm not, I'm not necessarily sold on that. I don't, you know, I don't have a firm opinion on it, I guess, one or the other, but it doesn't. I think there are other reasons for actual violence other than, you know, movies.

Yeah. People have been being horrendous. violently to one another predating centuries before the advent of cinema. This is true. This is true. I noticed in your credits you thank

a lot of people, including at least two filmmakers I took note of, Rameen, Ramin Barani, who's a good friend of yours and collaborator, and Guillermo, Guillermo del Toro, excuse me. I'm just curious, like, do you show them cuts? Like, how did they, why were they thanked specifically in the

credits? Well, yeah i showed the film to rameen uh he watched it two or three times ramin is very helpful you know he's in addition to being a filmmaker he's a professor of filmmaking at columbia university so and he's just so well-versed in cinema so i really value his opinion a great deal and um having said that I didn't. There's nobody that I did everything they suggested. But it's just nice to bounce things off people. But with Camo, I had a really extraordinary opportunity. He was in town here in New York because they were doing a big exhibit at MoMA about his Pinocchio movie.

Right. There was a big, uh, swaree for that. And I was sitting down to, I was sitting across the from him at dinner and I told him I said you know I made a film he's like you what I yeah I just started it's like well when in the hell am I going to see it I said oh you could come I'm editing right now if you want to see it he's like I'll be there and then God bless him you know he like he was very busy he came in and he was very tired he was been running around all over place, promoting Pinocchio and all that. And he came by in my editing suite and he watched the film. And yeah, had a beautiful response to it. And he said, Shannon, that is your movie. I see you in it. You are the only person that could have made that movie. I was like,

wow, that's pretty cool. Yeah. It's pretty cool thing to hear from one of the great filmmakers in the world so yeah so i thank him he he is truly one of the joys to listen to talk about movies because it's just his life would and he just the passion is all positivity it's great that's awesome uh speaking of positivity i want to hit upon something that's it must be very joyous for you in recent months uh the r em experience the tour the the the gift that keeps on giving that probably has blossomed into something way bigger than you ever imagined it would be. Oh, heck yeah. Yeah. So, I mean, is it fair to say Michael Shannon is living his best life when he is performing REM in front of like-minded folks, and now REM is often on stage

with you. Put me in your head a little bit. Michael Stipe next to you performing REM. Well, I, you know, I adore Michael Stipe. He's, he's given so much to me and so many other people. through his music through his words through his activism through his heart his compassion for people you know but the whole band you know Peter and Mike and Bill

they're just really sweet people you're very down to earth you know and they yeah they seem to really it means it means something to them

what we're doing. A lot of times they talk about it. They say, we never got to listen to this music because we were always performing it. And I think, yeah, I think they watch the shows or they come up and participate. And I'm like, oh, yeah, yeah, we, this is, look at what we did. That's pretty special.

And that's probably my favorite part of it is getting to help them appreciate even more what they think. It also just must be for you, like, because I know you probably had that, you know, maybe hesitation worry that this would feel like a stunt and that people would come out just to like see Michael Shannon and whatever and see it like this.

And it's obviously become like something that it's a communal love affair for REM and for you and it's it's not a it's not a joke it's real and it has taken on a life of its own well you know I mean the interesting thing about it is that Jason Nardousi and I you know

we do these and the other musicians um we've done a lot of we performed a lot of albums over the years um but they've always been one off you know we do one show

and um we do a lot of did murmur at a metro in Chicago, and it wasn't our idea to tour it at all. Like, it was other promoters reaching out and asking us if we would do it. It wasn't like I thought, it wasn't my idea. So, or Jason's idea. But when the, when the requests started coming in, you know, we said, well, why not

crazy okay I got yeah it wasn't my idea yeah yeah with Amex platinum with Amex platinum $400 in annual credits

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of Amanda Knox is now streaming only on Disney Plus. I have some random stuff That's surprising we've we've never covered in our many, many conversations here in no particular order. Oscar nominee twice. Is that a stressful evening the two times you've gone to the Oscars as a nominee? Or is it, I mean, I guess the good or bad side of it is like both years as I looked back, it was pretty clear at the time. Like there were, it was Heath, it was Mahershala, they were winning everything.

So did you even like have that stress of like, oh, the 3% chance I go on stage? What the hell am I going to say? Or were you able to chill out? you know i'm always pretty much in any situation remarkably calm that's good that's a good quality i mean you're correct in saying that i was told um in both instances that if if i actually won the award it would probably mean the end of days

or end of times right it would be a cataclysmic event Right. You're an Instagram and an Oscar winner. The undead coming up from the balls of the pyramids to eat out our flesh. Yeah, I'd like to thank my agents and the apocalypse, the zombies that are storming the earth. Yeah.

Outside this year. Yeah. And they were like, yeah, he's going to win. Myershal's going to win. Which I didn't really have any feelings about. I mean, the first time I went, I wasn't real smart about her because I I guess I was so

tickled to be invited that I I was illiberal in my drinking got it so you weren't quite able to enjoy I was slashed I was totally slashed got it okay there's a lesson

I wasn't slashed the second time I'd learned my lesson. Yeah. Good thing you didn't win especially that first time. What? Good thing you didn't win the first time. That would have been ugly on stage.

But I'd been told I wasn't going to win. Are we now justifying your swashiness? We don't want that, no. But Hollywood's so predictable. Yeah. No. We knew. We knew.

Okay. Speaking of memorable events, memorable shows, we've never talked about this. And I'm fascinated by this story. when you were on Broadway in Grace with Great Paul Rudd and others Is it true? Ed Asner. Ed Asner.

Was Ed Asner in that production? Oh my gosh. Amazing. An audience member in the balcony grew up, yes. Over the balcony onto someone downstairs. This isn't a new story. I've never heard it from you.

You're going to bring up next. You know, the McCarthy era. Were you there? Were you there, Michael? I'm supposed to be in a movie about McCarthy, but I saw that. You're in your elder statesman years. You're doing Supreme Court justices, presidents, Joseph McCarthy, all the, all the great I'm pivoting.

Yeah. Wait, don't distract. I want the vomit story. What was it like on your perspective? Why would you think I'd have a story about that? I was on stage. But you're, that's a very unique position to be in for a moment like that. Did you know what was happening?

Did it's, I don't know? I didn't know what was happening. I heard noise in the audience, and it was during a very delicate moment in the play that was difficult to do. And I was kind of irritated by it, by all the noise. But, you know, it's not uncommon in the Broadway houses for people to make noise.

Because, you know, a lot of people come and people with all different degrees of etiquette and yeah so I was kind of bummed out that there was all this noise going on and then I walked off stage and the stage manager was there

and I was like, why is it so noisy and he said oh somebody, I think somebody's sick I said oh okay well that makes sense and yeah well the truth is it was me and I just wanted to make amends

and apologize all these years later that's the twist I, well, were you actually sick? Did you have like a stomach bug? Because you don't have to apologize for that. You can't, there's nothing you do about that. No, no, you didn't know me then. And I was trying to get your attention.

I didn't know, I didn't know I needed a podcast to get your attention at the time. I thought this was the only way. You still don't really have my attention. I mean, the second, the second, this is over, I'll forget it ever happened. Why? Why? Why are you so mean? What did I do to deserve this?

I think it's so easy to be seen. When's the last time you had to audition? Do you remember your last audition? Michael Shannon doesn't audition anymore. Do you remember the last one? I auditioned for that movie, Nebraska, but I didn't get it. Okay. That was a while ago.

That's a long time ago. Yeah, it's probably at least 10, 12 years ago. Okay. Alexander Painez. I auditioned for a musical, but I didn't get a lot. that either. You were going to be in Wicked? Yeah. For a Felba. Alphaba. Alphaba.

What he's showing? It doesn't work that way. Wait, have you seen Wicked, by the way? Did the kids make you see it? They went to see it with other people. Okay. That's the benefit of having extended family. You don't have to, you can poist it off. on somebody else.

Right. No offense to anybody involved with Wiggin. I'm sure it's an astonishing motion picture, but it's just not my cup of tea, you know? Let me guess. Your favorite movie of 2024? Oh, I'm serious for you to actually guess this. You're a brutalist guy.

That wasn't my favorite movie of 2024. Did you like it? It's really weird. I went to see the Bruteless Christmas Day night, and it was kind of like the perfect thing. because I needed I needed somewhere to go so it kind of did the job

yeah I dug it all right wait wait I have one question I'm just tracking this now Christmas Eve you spent watching Christmas Eve that's why I specifically said Christmas Day night Christmas Eve is the night before Christmas Okay. I'm a Jew. I'm not familiar

with how this stuff works. The night of Christmas I don't know how to refer to it. So Christmas Eve, we had the big dinner and then Christmas morning you open all the presents and then it kind of peters out. There's this weird nebulous like, well,

that happened. So that's when I went to see the Brutelus. I want to probably too much. Are you alone seeing the Brutalus Christmas night? Yeah, I was going. I was alone. I just wanted to set the scene. Okay, Christmas night,

birth of Christ, we're celebrating with the brutalists. But it didn't celebrate it. It was over. Okay. There's no judgment. I'm just for posterity so the historians know what happened.

I wanted. Yeah. Sorry, you were continuing. So your favorite movie of 2024 was... Soundtrack to a coup de tie. I'm ashamed. I haven't seen it.

I've heard amazing things. It's great. Yeah. don't make me repeat myself I just told you what my favorite movie of 2024 was and you're asking if it's great no this is a way of getting movie of 2024 is some piece of shit

I can play you want to play this game I'll play this game I'm wearing socks to have Burmese mountain dogs on it you're you've worded out your background so every time something comes into frame It's hard to see, like, I can't see it. I can't see it.

I don't want you to injure yourself. Oh, that's great. That's, okay. That's really good. It's a little blurry, but I'm going to take it. I don't want you to know where I am. I'm in Guantanamo. It wouldn't shock me.

Hey, we got a few more random stuff for you before I let you go. Did you have much time with Cindy Lumet on the set of Before the Devil Knows you're dead? What was it like to work with Sidney Lumet, the Great, before we lost him, sadly? I mean, that must have been a moment. Oh, I love them. I love Sidney Lamett. Sidney Lamett was amazing because he would, you know, there's no monitors on his set. So he'd get a little perch on the dolly and he would literally sit right next to the lens.

So the lens is here and Sidney's here and even sit and even watch. I was doing a take once. It was a three shot of me and Ethan and Alexa Palladino. the wide at the table there and I said something to Ethan I was looking at Ethan I said something and I heard a little eh

and Sidney was saying I was like oh wow I just made Sydney lament laugh during a take amazing but he was very sweet he signed some copies of his book for me to use at a benefit for my theater

that was the last time I saw him actually I went to his office and he and he signed a couple of copies of his book for me. Very sweet, man. Did you, did you know Philip Seymour Hoffman well? Well, Phil directed me in a play called Little Flower of East and Orange. And then, of course, Phil's in before the devil knows you're dead. Right.

Yeah, I knew Phil. I knew Phil. Yeah. All right. They tell me your time is short, so I'm going to go right to the most important part, the happy, say, I confuse profoundly random questions, Michael. You ready? Great.

Here we go. Dogs or cats? Cats. This explains a lot about our relationship. Okay, that's fine. What do you collect? Regrets. You know, I interviewed Nathan Lane last night.

He had the exact same answer. You two share that in common. Good to know. It doesn't surprise me. What's your favorite video game of all time? Hubert. That's good. I like Uber. Yeah. No, burger time.

That's a good one too. Yeah. Yeah. No, elevator action. Okay. Just now you're... This is the Dakota Johnson Memorial question. She asked me this. Would you rather have a mouthful of bees or one B in your butt? you're frozen you're frozen i don't understand dakota johnson asked you that or you asked her that she asked me that i was asking her some stupid questions as i want to do and she said i've got a stupid one for you that i like to ask and that she asked me that i love these i don't mind they can

be wherever okay it's good to know these get a bad rap we're one day we're going to be like oh my God, where did all the bees go? It's true. I'll die. Okay, let's not. What's the wallpaper on your phone? Right now? Yeah.

An old picture of Michael's type. Right. Why are you answering it like you're in trouble? It's okay. That's good. It's good answer. Well, that's kind of creepy, though. I should probably change it.

Last actor you were mistaken for? last i don't know last of i've been mistaken for lots of people who's the most frequent one who's the most bizarre one well you already know this remind me why you already know this i don't remember i don't remember i don't remember recycled material recycled bits josh i don't remember uh a lot of people over the years have said i looked like like Richard Kiel. I'll play Jaws in the James Bond movies. I've heard that I look like Quentin Tarantino.

I don't see that one. Yeah, Willem Defoe, I've heard. Some people say, hey, you were in Spider-Man. I'm like, no, you're confused. For the record, I don't remember. I'm not Dr. Zad. You're not Dr. Zod. You're a general.

what's the worst noted director has ever given you well i don't my favorite note my favorite okay i'll take it i'll take whatever you got was when burner herdsug came in and he said that was quite lame yeah okay and in that voice no less well i didn't do the impersonate i can't do impersonations no he is more had more he had more juice on it i i'm doing just this straightforward version i appreciate it's okay and in the spirit of happy say i confused who's an actor you see on

screen that always makes you happy Did you hear the question? Chris and Bruy Warkin. Okay, great. A movie that makes you sad. What do you do with you? Why are you being like this? What happened?

Movie that makes me sad. Transformers. There it is. We got there. It's sad when Megatron and Optimus can't get along. Yeah. Yeah. That's tough.

And a food that makes you confused. Food that makes me confused. Wow. Oh, it's all recycled material, Josh. These are all old questions. No, we're pushing. We're trying new shit. Food that makes me confused.

Um. Chicken nuggets that don't have any chicken in them. all breading? It's just like what's, no, it's like made out of corn or something.

Oh, I see. Like a vegan chicken nugget. What's the point? Yeah. That's great. That's going to change lives

that answer. Thank you for that. Michael, it's been an absolute delight. I'm going to speak for you and say, yes, it was a delight, Josh.

This has been really transformative for me. I feel different than when we started. Me too. Not in a good way. but different. I need to go to the bathroom. Yeah, I have that effect on people. Eric Leroux is a great piece of work.

I'm very happy for you. I'm happy for the world that we get it in theaters, April 4th. And then I soon thereafter or on demand, all that kind of fun stuff. But give it support. These kind of movies need your support. Do you love what this man does like I do? Spread the good word.

I thank you, sir. It's good to see you. Thanks, Josh. Thanks for helping us out. Anytime. time. Any time. And so ends another edition of happy, sad, confused. Remember to review, rate, and subscribe to this show on iTunes or wherever you get your

podcasts. I'm a big podcast person. I'm Daisy Ridley and I definitely wasn't pressure to do this by Josh. The Old West is an iconic period of American history and full of legendary figures whose names still resonate today. Like Jesse James. Billy the Kid and Butch and Sundance, Sitting Bull, Crazy Horse, and Geronimo, Wyatt Earp, Batmasterson, and Bass Reeves, Buffalo Bill Cody, Wild Bill Hickok, the Texas Rangers, and many more. Hear all their stories on the Legends of the Old West podcast. We'll take you to Tombstone, Deadwood, and Dodge City, to the plains, mountains, and deserts for battles between

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