Happy Sad Confused - Michael Stuhlbarg

Episode Date: December 17, 2017

If there's one scene from a feature film released in 2017 that should go into a time capsule for future actors showing how it's done, it might as well be Michael Stuhlbarg's monologue that comes near the end of "Call Me By Your Name". To those who know Stuhlbarg's diverse resume it shouldn't be much of a surprise. This is an actor who can do just about anything.  He's been "Hamlet" on the stage and led a brilliant Coen brothers film ("A Serious Man") but he's also carved out a career as an unparalleled character actor playing roles big and small for the likes of Martin Scorsese and Steven Spielberg. The only common denominator in his performances seems to be excellence. On this episode of "Happy Sad Confused", Stuhlbarg gives a master class on his approach to acting on the stage and screen, how his career changed virtually overnight thanks to the Coen brothers, and what it was like to work on a trio of acclaimed films ("The Shape of Water" and "The Post" round out the group" out this year. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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That's BetterHelphelp.com. Today on Happy Second Fused, Michael Steubarb on Call Me by Your Name, The Shape of Water, and the Post. Hey, guys, I'm Josh Horowitz. Welcome to the show. Welcome to my little old podcast. And welcome to a really great conversation I thought today with a fantastic actor, a actor's actor. You know, we've had a bunch of these lately where I've had these, you could call them character actors. I mean, you know, tomato, tomato, whatever. They've been leads. They've been supporting players. They're just consummate actors.

You know, I put people like Richard Jenkins and Willem Defoe in that category. These kind of actors that are true chameleons and you can fit them in virtually any role, it seems. And they always, always elevate the material. And that is my guest today, Michael Stoolbarg. I first saw Call Me By Your Name a few months back at the Toronto Film Festival. I missed it. It was at the Sundance Film Festival, and there was a huge acclaim and buzz around it. And it was a while before it came back around on the festival circuit.

And I saw it there, and there was so much I fell in love with about that movie. If you haven't seen it, it's basically kind of a coming-of-age story about a young man. named Elio spending a summer in Italy with his family. Michael Stubark plays the father, the patriarch, and Elio falls in love with a man there, played by the great army hammer. And, you know, it's about, you know, discovering your own sexuality and just falling in love and all the things that we've seen many times in films probably not done so well. And yet call me by your name is just note perfect, touching and beautiful. And it's just one of the best films of the year. And that's one of the reasons why we've covered it so extensively on this podcast is that it's a great

film and it's just replete with great performances. So Michael Stubarb kind of completes our trifecta. We had Timothy Chalamee on the show recently, the leading performance of the film. And we had Army Hammer on the show as well. And Stilberg was actually kind of the first one I was walking out of of the theater where I was like, I need to talk to him because there's so much to love in the film, but there is, if you've seen the film, you know what I'm talking about, and if you haven't seen the film, I won't ruin it, but there is a scene, a scene towards the end of the film where Michael Stubark, who thus far in the film, has been kind of an ancillary, though charming, and an interesting character, just steals the show. And it's the emotional high point of the

film and it's uh it just i think it just wrecks every audience member in a profound way it's it's it's just so well written and well delivered and it's it's truly one of the scenes of the year so that was yet another reason why i wanted michael stewberg on the show today another is that just going back he's been in so many things but let us honor the great a serious man a classic cone brothers movie um you know won't surprise anybody listening to this podcast to know that i'm a huge Cohn Brothers fan and I consider a serious man one of their best works and Michael Stilbarg was the ultimate Cone Brothers protagonist, the put upon beleaguered protagonist in that film and he was so excellent in it. And it's just great to see him having a banner year. As I, you know, said at the

outset, it's not only about call me by your name. He's also in Steven Spielberg's The Post, which I consider one of the best films of the year that's coming soon. He's got a small but pivotal role in that alongside the likes of Tom Hanks and Merrill Streep. Amazing. And yet another fantastic film in the shape of water. He has a very important role in that fantastic ensemble, all the actors in that, and I'm dying to get a few of the others in here at some point, but Sally Hawkins and Michael Shannon and Octavia Spencer, and of course, as I said, Richard Jenkins, who we've had on the podcast before. So the shape of water is out. You should check it out. Stubarak is excellent in that but but for the love of god if you haven't seen call me by your name go check it out um i'll keep

the intro short this week since like once again sadly uh sammy is not around to uh make fun of me um but i know she enjoys listening to me talk to myself on the intros so this one's for you sammy uh in the meantime you know what i'm going to say please guys you know what to do go to itunes review rate subscribe spread the good word those reviews and ratings really make a difference and they are much appreciated. But in the meantime, now that I've given that PSA, here's a gift to you, a conversation with a consummate actor,

and I just had a delightful time talking to him. I hope you will enjoy it as much as I did. Here is Michael Stoberg. It's a distinct pleasure to welcome Mr. Michael Steeleberg to this office. Welcome, sir. Thank you. I'm a big, big fan of your work, and one of the beauties of this podcast is getting to know. So to rekindle relationships with people I know, and also to meet people that I've long admired and you definitely fit that latter category.

And there's a lot to talk about today. Thank you. Again, welcome. You complete, by the way, the triumvirate of your call me by your name, co-stars. I had Timothy in just a couple days ago, Army last week. This has become a love fest for this film. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. It's a special one, as you know.

So we'll get to that. But first, I just want to talk about sort of like the career that you've kind of carved out for yourself. And that, you know, I think, hopefully you take it as a badge of honor. You are a character actor and you are an amazing character actor. You can fit into any number of different kinds of narratives, different kinds of directors. Is that something growing up? Like, did you have a reverence for the quote-unquote character actor? What can I say about that?

I just loved acting. In general, I didn't really separate it in terms of any particular kind or difference between what a role was. I just thought it was pretend. And to try to be as good at it as I could be. Is it useful to differentiate, or is that one of those arbitrary terms that? like, you know, scholars and film critics or whatever will assign to careers. I mean, in the end, acting is acting, I suppose, and it's, if whether you have 10 lines or 100 lines, it's a job. Yeah, I think acting has been an opportunity to walk around in other people's shoes.

So I guess whatever it takes to perhaps make, to make something feel or seem as true as possible. And if that means putting on a fake nose or shaving your head or growing a beard or, you know, changing your eye color, you know, they're all tools towards perhaps a suspension of disbelief or or creating something that maybe the audience hasn't seen before. I love to utilize those tools and to try to really just realize and manifest whatever the way the character

behaves in the best way that I can. And I would think also a unique talent you have to have is adaptability in terms of different kinds of filmmakers, different kinds of sets. And especially when you're doing, in some cases, a smaller role, that can be a challenge in its own way, where like, you know, you're not there for the whole duration.

You come in for two or three days or five days, and you need to immediately from hit the ground running and be in the same film that everybody else is making. Yeah, it's absolutely a challenge. It's like being shot out of a cannon in many ways. It's just you sort of show up and they say go and you have to have done your work beforehand and sort of try to find your groove within a well-oiled machine

or in some cases a machine that's not well-oiled. just try to do your thing. It's like being a pinch hitter in some ways. You have to come in, hit your marks, and then go away. It must be more defying. I don't know if this has ever happened, where, like, again, say you have a part that only calls upon you for three or four days. You do day one, because you have to make those choices in those first

couples, that first scene or two, and you can't necessarily pivot 90 degrees on the next day. The choices you make on day one will dictate. ostensibly that role. Oftentimes, yes. Oftentimes yes. Do you find yourself that night, like, thinking, oh, shit, I just boxed myself in? Well, you try not to. You try to think things through with as much time as you can. You try to prepare as much as you can so that you can perhaps, excuse me,

you can plan it out somewhat. But it is kind of like capturing lightning in a bottle. You do have to insubes. some ways, surrender yourself to the idea that you may not know exactly what you're going to do. And if you can surprise yourself, then you'll surprise everybody around you. And oftentimes things are not shot in chronological order. So if you want to be conscious of the arc you're creating, then yes, you do have to do your work before it. And also, I have one of your co-stars from Shape of Water. Also, Richard Jenkins was in here recently, who, you know, talked about, you know,

you can conjure up something in your brain, you know, in the privacy of your hotel room or your home. But you might imagine the set a totally different way. You might imagine the actor playing it a different way. And you have to be malleable and in the moment enough and willing and able and have the facility to adapt or else you're you're screwing yourself over. Well, you are also in that case acting in a film that doesn't exist. It's the bag of your hotel room. Yes, it's in your mind. But it's not up there on the screen.

Yeah, you do have to be adaptable, and that's always a challenge. You never know what something's going to be, no matter how much you prepare for it. You know, we'll talk about a great, many different aspects of your career. I mean, I know, prior to a serious man, which was obviously a game changer in terms of the kinds of things you were doing and the medium you were acting in, you had been acting. You had done some film and TV work, but ostensibly it was mostly theater. You were a theater actor, is that fair to say? Yeah, absolutely. So was there, and I've had this.

This kind of debate is too strong a word, but a discussion with actors many times about, like, is there a difference between acting for the stage or acting for the screen? Did you find when you started to really jump fully into film acting and television acting that there were adjustments you had to make? Is there a different approach for you? It took me a long time to figure out the medium itself. I just wasn't being hired for things. I spent many years auditioning for things that I just didn't get because I didn't really thoroughly understand it. I had become somewhat of a theater animal and was doing that all the time. But there were some things I needed to learn and maybe some growing up.

And I often fell between categories also in terms of what I was being seen for. I was one of the, you know, 40 or 50 actors that would be called in for a lawyer on law and order. Sure. And that included men, women, and people of many colors and shapes and sizes. And it was, oh, they got it this time. That's cool. And you go back to the business and you, you know, you look for another opportunity. And I learned, I think, over the course of time, maybe just to just own things in a different way, in a deeper way, and also to prepare.

a greater way than I thought I needed to. So it was a very long learning process for me. Was it a happy, prosperous life in the theater? Would you... I loved it. I mean, I had gone to school to be an actor in the theater. And I was blessed with the opportunity to do just that. I got to work with most of the theaters in town and be on Broadway and off-Broadway. And off-Broadway. and off off broadway and and try a million different things play a number of different characters to learn my craft from the ground up and sort of build my sea legs and feel like I could actually stand up straight amongst the community and after a number of years of thinking of myself as a kind of an apprentice to learn as much as I could from all the best people there were

out there and I had some amazing opportunities and I took a of them to the best that I could and yeah I guess that was the way I wanted this to go and then to have had these opportunities come into my life at a time when I wasn't really looking for them yeah maybe that's was kind of the key for me letting go of the end that particular ambition no it wasn't even that it was just I was so happy doing the opportunities that were coming my way, and all those opportunities just happened to be in the theater. And I was like, I get to work with this amazing director

and these fantastic actors. And that was what I wanted to do, and that's sort of what I did. And then, yeah, when Joel and Ethan came around, I would have done anything in that film and would have been pleased to have been a part of it. And it just sort of turned out that I had lived a certain amount of time

and had gone through enough to sort of be right for a couple of those characters at that time in my life and they knew my work in the theater and I think that's why they brought me in. Had you ever met with them on any other film before? No, actually, I hadn't. But I know they had seen me in a couple of the plays that I had done.

I had done a workshop with Francis McDormand at Lincoln Center. We had done many readings together, she and I and had worked at the 52nd Street Project, which is a wonderful organization for kids in the Hell's Kitchen area of New York City, and they learn about theater by writing the plays and getting professional actors and directors to act in them and direct them. So I met Francis there, and then I met Joel at an engagement party.

And so we kind of just met in a natural way. So they knew who I was coming in, and they gave me a shot. And I was, I guess, according to them, the right guy at the right time. You moved to New York, I assume, for Juilliard, and made your home ever since then, pretty much. And you grew up in California. I did. Come from a artistic background. Like, was your family interested in the arts at all?

They were supporters of the arts. They took us to see plays when we were kids. And we saw musicals in Long Beach where I grew up. and in some of the neighboring towns and the South Coast Repertory Theater I grew up seeing plays there so theater was in my life and they really

you know they really exposed us to it at a young age and they were fans of soundtracks of films and of theater productions so we would listen to you know soundtracks and we got to know the music of Broadway musicals

or film soundtracks and yeah It all just sort of stretched my imagination and got me started, I guess, down the road of wanting to do this. Do you remember the first filmmaker or actor that you kind of grew obsessed with or had a fascination with growing up? Bob Fawsey, probably, yeah. I saw Cabaret, I guess, when I was a young kid. You ended up in Cabaret, too, didn't you?

I did. I did. I ended up in Sam Mendez's Broadway production of it for six months. An amazing production. It was an amazing production, and it was, you know, it was a life-changing experience listening to that music as a kid growing up and being exposed to his films in particular. And, you know, I was a fan of Martin Scorsese's films when I was a kid, too. I used to watch, you know, Raging Bull and Taxi Driver and Last Temptation of Christ whenever those films were on. I would, you know, I couldn't be pulled away from the TV.

that he was a huge he made a huge impression on my life at that time as well was there an actor that you gravitated towards or style of acting when you started to kind of glean that there were different approaches were a handful of people who just sort of rocked my world and anything they did I would see

and that was you know the Robert Ginoes the Al Pacino's the Daniel Day Lewis is the Derek Jacoby Merrill Streep these were people who did something magic for me and and

Anthony Hopkins these are all people I have huge admiration for and loved what they did what they shared with us and you know they made their impressions on me when I was young. What was the environment

like for you at Juilliard which is a tough atmosphere and not not everyone's cup of tea? Do you find it nurturing and helpful for you or did it feel like a trial by fire or what? It was everything I wanted it to be. I was sort of obsessed with doing plays and being an actor and I had gone to UCLA for two years and transferred to the Juilliard School. And I felt like I had done just about everything I wanted to do at UCLA at that time. So it seemed like a

good time to transition. And Juilliard was a very loving experience for me. I felt very lucky to be with the group of people that I got into a company with our group, Group 21, was a wonderful group of people. They seemed to like our class and give us all kinds of opportunities that we wouldn't have had otherwise. Tony Kushner was our playwright in residence at that time, which was stunning and remarkable, and he's become a friend in my life now, changed my life. And it was a magical time.

And I was so happy to be there, and I was happy there most of the time. But, you know, I was also young enough to be impressionable and open to all the changes that they wanted us to try to utilize. And it's all about giving you tools to use to do more. Right. And I took it as such and ran with it. And talking about, like, utilizing and learning tools, you know, one experience always stands out. and I'm sure you're asked about it a lot in your, in your experiences, the fact that you got the rare opportunity to study with Marcel Marceau,

which is amazing. Yeah, it was. What was he like as a teacher? I mean, it's... Gregorius. Really? He wouldn't stop talking. Is that true?

It's amazing. It is hysterical, actually. It was fantastic, though, because he was so, you know, he didn't have to. He could have led his lessons by not saying a word, but he was so full of life and so generous to all of us. I had auditioned for a scholarship at UCLA to study with him for a year in France. And they couldn't decide between the final four of us. So they said, all four of you are going to go to Ann Arbor, Michigan, and study at the World Center there.

And he would teach us once a week while he was teaching the senior students. We were beginners. And we'd study with his students most of the time. And then he'd come in and he'd teach us too. And we'd learn things about the physical demands of telling a story with nothing but your body and how disciplined that you need to be. It was a remarkable time, a wonderful summer. A recent guest here, Will M. Defoe talked about, he approaches, I think, rolls first through the physical.

Is that something that's foremost on your mind? I mean, again, you have this toolkit. you can go any which way do you have does your process kind of in approaching a character change from job to job or is there a certain few things you will always apply when you start up I never know what I'm going to use when I start you mean in some cases it's been a gaining of a huge amount of weight or a losing of a great amount of weight in terms of my own body I have been a much more physical actor on stage than I have been in front of the camera I'd like that to change honestly I'd love some more sort of physical opportunities but um uh to try to capture perhaps a more for or to explore a more physical kind of uh uh uh characterization by altering uh altering myself a bit more i just you know uh every job is different every opportunity is different uh uh and And I've learned about those kinds of things. But, yeah.

I mean, I guess the goal is at a certain point. I mean, you know, you've done so much training and different kind of disciplines. At a certain point, it's so internalized that it's almost less an intellectual exercise than it is an instinctual one for you. Yeah, I guess so. Instinct is at the heart of it. of everything that actors do, especially on stage, because you're in a, you know, you're in a room with a group of people and you know instantly when something's going well and when something perhaps is going less than well. And that's all you have to go on.

Yeah. Did you, so prior to a serious man, and I'm trying to get the chronology, right, you, had you done Hamlet prior to shooting a serious man? Yes, that was the last sort of play I had done right before I did Hamlet in the park 2008, and then that fall I went to shoot a serious man. Is there any connective tissue in the fact that, you know, there's no more central, important part in the theater than Hamlet. It's a right of passage for so many actors, and then you get to do your first kind of leading role in a film.

Is there something that you took from one experience to the other, or is it just again? I imagine, yes, I mean, I've certainly learned a lot being given that opportunity to play Hamlet, and I felt like I could have explored it for months and months and months and months. I didn't get that opportunity. It was Shakespeare in the park as sort of 27, 28 performances, if you're lucky, depending upon the weather. But I was so grateful to have had the opportunity to try, and it put me in a headspace to be. absolutely ready for Joel and Ethan and the story that I was going into in terms of my

preparation and trying to create the arc as we spoke on earlier before I got there so that I knew the arc of this character because I knew we would most likely be shooting it out of sequence. I took the opportunity to watch a serious man again this week because it's, I mean, it's one of my favorites of theirs and they're my favorite filmmakers. So you do the math. It's on my favorite films. And it's such a wonderful piece of work from all involved. And in some ways, it feels like it's like kind of the ultimate expression of what they are. Because when I think of them, I think of kind of like this great blend of profundity and stupidity. They kind of embrace both sides. And that's what a serious man in some ways feels like to me. Absolutely. Right. Talk to me

about, like, just the experience of working with them. I know enough in reading about them and talking to them. I actually had talked to them for a serious man. That was the one time I chatted with them. That I know they're, they actually are gregarious, I think, on set. They're laughers, right? Yeah, absolutely. Is that, were you surprised, hardened by sort of their,

the atmosphere that they create and their willingness to kind of emote on set and indicate that they're enjoying themselves? Oh, I don't know. I mean, I think there is a, There's a shot in Fargo somewhere in their film Fargo when Steve Busemi is, I guess, trying to hide the money in the snow. And he's like falling all over himself to get back to his car or whatever. And I think the camera jostles a little bit in one instance, which is just an example of them having a good time. That's amazing.

While they're making what they're making. And I think, you know, my first inkling of that was auditioning them, auditioning for them for that film. I auditioned for the role of the husband. in the Yiddish parable at the very beginning of the movie, had to learn that whole scene in Yiddish, and when I came in and did it for them, they laughed a lot. And that just made me feel instantly at ease, you know? Like, okay, I can do this, you know?

Or at least I got a laugh out of them, which was lovely. It's interesting because you mentioned kind of like, you know, obviously shooting out of sequence, which is kind of like the norm for a film. Because I'm wondering, is that a particular challenge of a character like that? Like, Larry, like, again, when I was watching it again, I go, first of all, a lot of the scenes I thought, when I was watching and I was thinking about it, a lot of them are, it's a series of conversations. It's a lot of kind of confrontations, whether it's with a student or the wife or Cy Abelman, et cetera. And in some ways, it's like, it's a very, you have to track very specifically, like, what level of exasperation and disintegration is Larry at at this point.

Right. Is that something that you remember being kind of like on your mind of, like, how to figure out how to grade? Yes, absolutely. And Joel in particular was very helpful in terms of helping me modulate that how much, you know, we don't want to give away too much too soon. I want to monitor what he's going through, what he can tolerate, what he can't, how much we want to show. And I'm grateful to him for his guidance during the course of the shoot. was give me a sense of sort of like your you know the opportunity of something like that is tremendous as you will well know and and the fact that it was so well received and well reviewed et cetera um it must have been a source of pride and and relief perhaps that like you lived up to this challenge and that and thankfully you got some kind of new exciting different kind of opportunities around it did it feel what was that was that a happy kind of relief a moment when the film was received so well and you see started to see that offers were coming in that were of a different stripe? Well, they kind of opened me up to a world that didn't know me, having done mostly theater at that point. So you really, I couldn't have had a more wonderful opportunity and more gracious guides under the circumstances.

Because of that, yes, all kinds of doors open. end up for me and people gave me a shot. And that's all we can ask for, really, is an opportunity to at least get out there in front of some people and sort of say, I think I can do this.

Here's my take on what something is. So that's all anybody ever really wants is a shot. Well, you're making the most of it clearly. Let's talk about some of the films out this year. I've seen all three of them, and they're all fantastic in their own unique ways. In no preferential order, let's talk about call me by your name, which is

something that it's just hitting everybody in the right spot. You know, I first saw it in Toronto. And, well, I mean, first of all, are you surprised of the narrative, like, inevitably, and we'll talk about it, too, there's the talk of the scene. Did you know kind of like going in or coming out of it, like, oh, this will probably be the thing that people will want to talk to me about? I didn't think about it, honestly, because, honestly, the original cut of the film was like three hours and 40 minutes. Luca ended up trimming a lot of material away. So in the work on the storytelling, there were a lot of things that I went through and participated in that had gravity, that had weight. But really, in Lucas' version of this story, we're unnecessary.

Now, that being said, I had been warned by my agent at the very beginning that there was this beautiful scene at the end of the story between a father and a son. And it's some very moving sentiments. And I was honored and grateful and humbled to be the mouthpiece for that. and we shot the film mostly in chronological order which meant that I had weeks to live with what I was going to be saying and my affection for Timothy and for Army and for Luca and for everyone involved grew over the course of those weeks until when that day arrived we were all ready I think to open our hearts to each other in a very intimate

in a very intimate setting and for those that are listening that haven't seen the film we won't reveal the specifics of what happens in the speech we can kind of dance around it, and I want to, you know, maintain that level of, you know, emotional impact for those that haven't seen it. But it's an interesting speech in that, you know, again, without ruining anything, it kind of, it almost starts as a speech about Elio. Then it seems to be a speech about your own character. In the end, I feel like it's about all of us in this universality that we all have experienced or probably will experience in our life. Is that why you

think it works or it's like it's just kind of like just hitting audiences in the gut. I mean, have you, you've had time to kind of like probably think about this and see this with audiences and talk about it. Do you have a sense of sort of why that particular scene is so emotional for an audience at this point? It's got to be a combination of all the elements of Luca's mastery in putting all these pieces together in the way he has. He lets you live in the world for a while in a very open and generous way. He lets the camera linger. The music he's chosen is extraordinary and so moving in places. And the performances of Army and and Timothy and Esther and Amira and Victoire. It's a it's a it's a it's a

combination of all all the elements together and it kind of sneaks in at a moment um you almost like the film's over already in some ways you don't know really where it'll go next and it kind of just starts yeah um it's all of those elements and that's that's you know the beautiful cinematography of soyambu muk du prom our dp as well all of the elements are sort of put together in an extraordinary way. It's such a loving and beautiful character. It's this, in some ways, this father that we all kind of wish we had or hopefully have had saying the right things, but also with his own regrets as we'll learn.

I mean, you know, I love the look of the character. In some ways, when I was watching it again, I was like, oh, this is, and believe me, I don't want anyone but you playing it, but I'm like, this is the part that I feel like Robin Williams. Maybe it's the beard or something. That's the Robin Williams part in the film. I don't know if anyone else has mentioned that, or that's my own randomness. Was there a distinct kind of thought behind, like, how he was going to present himself in physicality and the beard, et cetera?

It was a real collaboration with Luca. You know, he gave me a bunch of photographs that seemed to have resonance for him in terms of what the man's spirit might be like. And I had grown the beard out, and he loved it. And he said, don't touch it. Keep it. So that was that was part of him I guess that just seemed

right the rest of it was an absolute collaboration and just sort of what do you think Luca what do you think about these things and he was very specific in terms of the things that I was going to be wearing and I just knew that Luca knew this man in a very deep way

So I Followed along You mentioned that there was a You know early I don't know if it was an assembly Or if there was an actual version That was three and a half plus hours I assume you never saw that

That version of it I mean are you the kind of actor That kind of like Can go into a first screening of a film Just ready to kind of embrace whatever the director is done Or are you stealing yourself Or like this won't match what I experienced They can't

It's impossible It never does It never will I mean and that's okay really Because I don't want to be too self-conscious about what it is that I'm thrown out there honestly I'm just trying to live in it

so that they can capture it and it's going to be their vision of what it is so it's always a surprise and in some cases there are moments when things are captured that I intended and how nice is that you know and other times when I have no idea

that things would be captured in the way that they are and that's kind of fantastic too you know it's always going to have a different kind of life and you expected it to. And in the case of Call Me by Your Name, it's really been an extraordinary experience

watching the film successively over three or four different viewings and just seeing how beautifully he pieced it together. I got a chance to see The Post recently, which I adored. And it's just kind of a miracle of how, like that film came together, I know. Wow, yeah. Have you seen it yet?

No, not yet. Oh, it's just fantastic. Oh, wonderful. Yeah, I mean, I said it, you know, today on social media, it's probably my favorite Spielwork since Munich. And it's just a, and of course, it's of the times. And yes, I think that helps it, but beyond that, it's just a great piece of work. And so this, this happened very quickly.

Very quickly, yes. You're playing a real-life character. I don't know, then I assume you didn't have much time to do the requisite research. No, I just sort of. threw myself into it. Who is Abrosanthal and get me as much in particular? Absolutely, you know, and look up as much information on him as I could. I had the benefit of getting to watch interviews with him that are online that can be found. And just learning about what a tenacious, hard-lined, remarkable man he was and how many different people had many different

perspectives on how he ran the times. Some adored him. some, you know, uh, didn't. Uh, so it was an interesting place to find myself and to sort of jump in and give it a go. Yeah. I mean, as you can tell from the posters in the office, I'm, I'm a child of Spielberg in the 80s. I grew up with all that stuff. And like he, you know, I watched that recent doc. I've mentioned it a couple times on this podcast. I don't know if you saw this great documentary about his work. And I did. And if anything, I came away from it and I revere the man. I'm like, oh my God, I think he might be underrated still. Like he's just like he's, he's, he's, he changed. And cinema. He's the most influential filmmaker

bar none. But he doesn't necessarily often get credit as an actor's director, quote and quote. Do you think, I mean, do you think, does he nurture actors in his own way? I mean, what's been your experience? He also had a part in Lincoln as well. That's right. Yeah. What's been your experience? I found him to be an

absolute collaborator. And I also think he stands, he stands out of people's way. But he's also very present in terms of if you want to discuss things with him. I've had two instances, one instance on both films in which I brought in strong ideas about what I thought a moment should be and asked him, you know, should I show him or, do I want to tell you about

what I'm going to do for easy to just show me? And then more likely than not, he'll say, I absolutely love it. Now, let's move the camera over here so we can capture it in the best possible way, in the best possible light. Again, using the tools in his tool kit. Absolutely, to capture in the way that he thinks will most benefit the story. And so in that sense, he's absolutely a team player. He loves actors. But he also is so gifted in terms of how stories are told and where the camera can go.

And it's been such a dazzling experience watching him on the set sort of say, oh, could it be here, here, and then here, and the crew just does it. He's been working with these people for years. and it just he keeps the momentum going of he keeps the energy going uh he wants us to be in the world in which we're creating yeah um that spirit of of of play is so much a part of his sets and you just love it i mean there's a kind of energy on his sets that i haven't experienced in any other film because

everyone wants to do their best work everyone is so happy to be there and we just just want to make the best version of what we're doing and it's it's uplifting it's absolutely exhilarating and um i've i don't do anything for him yeah i don't you know when you're on the set of a spielberg or scurcese film you know you automatically are a part of film history like it's but you also want to show up you know yeah you want to have done your work so that you can enjoy yourself and the doing of it yeah uh and uh the cast for the post it was an extraordinary group of everywhere you looked

there was someone you admired yeah if you watch like yeah the scenes in the newsroom etc it's like oh there's Carrie Coon with like three or four lines

but she kills it and everyone they're all just one is better than the other the shape of water an embarrassment of riches to say at least this year Guillermo the Torah

who again like such reverence for he's like every film geek loves him justifiably so this one I mean correct me if I'm wrong did he write this part with you in mind

apparently he did Has that happened much? Never. Never. That's never happened to me before. Did he tell you that when he met with you? Yeah. Yeah, he said he had me in mind for this, which knocked me sideways. You know, I know he knew who I was. And he didn't know that I could speak Russian, but he said, here's a curveball. Give this a try.

So, yeah, it was, it was. He was so energetic, so generous. I said earlier today that he was like a bear hug incarnate. Oh, yeah. We've all experienced the Guillermo hug. He's a loving man. I love it. I love it.

But he's also like a general in charge of an army. And he can really energize. He often energized the crew to just sort of, you know, in this instance as well, make you do, want to do your best possible. possible work. Yeah. Well, you feel like it's out of his soul. Like, these are stories that are so intrinsic to him. Absolutely. That need to be told. There's nothing else he wants to do more than... No. And he's also, it's, it comes from a very ancient place. There are archetypes and, you know, in every aspect of, of the story that he's shaping, as well as different genres, you have

the Cold War genre. You have a romance. You have magical realism of the creature. You have B movies. You have homages to Hollywood musicals. It's just this and it's his spirit as well. Yeah. You know? Extraordinary. Really extraordinary. We were talking when you walked in about the ever

present name that comes up on this podcast, Michael Shannon. Had you crossed paths with Michael in the theater world here before? Well, sure. Michael and I hadn't been in any plays together, but we were on boardwalk empire together for four seasons, but oddly we never had, we had one scene together in four and a half years of working on that, and we weren't even speaking to each other. We were across the room from each other. I was walking across, it was the pilot, walking across the room, and he was pointing me out, and someone was wondering if the tall guy was me, and Michael said something to the effective does that guy look tall to you i can hear him saying that was it that was the entirety of five years of work together do you get a buzz out of working with someone whether it's a michael shannon or someone of his ilk that um obviously has the facility and it's just you know has the you know michael has a very unique energy absolutely um and that must be something that feeds your your soul

and your your livelihood and just the excitement of being on a set absolutely michael is uh i i i i I grew to have the most remarkable admiration for Michael, beyond his talents as an actor, to watch him backstage in the making of this film, to see him go, you know, to lock horns with Guillermo and to discuss a moment about where the camera is, what's happened before, and why this is going on, the multitude of ways in which it can be told. Michael should direct, and I hope he does. I was dazzled by him as an artistic practitioner, as well as being just a fantastic person.

I can't say enough kind things about the man. Well, you've seen the signs and stuff in my office of the things I've subjected to. You're next, Michael. So I hope that I know you're capable of it because you're as good as an actor as there is out there. I'm going to convince you to do something stupid with me one day. Gladly. Excellent. This podcast, if nothing else, we've booked you.

for that. So you're enjoying the spoils of this now, you know, these great films and talking, spreading the good word about them. You are a New Yorker. I always respect and love that. I grew up here in the city, so that's always something special to me. Is there, is theater

on the docket? Do you know what the next gig is? What's... I made a television show earlier this year under the title at the time called The Looming Tower based on Lawrence writes book, The Looming Tower. about the rise of al-Qaeda and the bureaucracy between the FBI and the CIA that led to 9-11 happening.

I played Richard Clark, the head of counter-terrorism in that. So that will be hopefully seen sometime in February in terms of, that's on the Hulu network. In terms of theater, I've got a couple different projects brewing, nothing that I can speak on at the moment, but it's been a very long time since I've been on stage, and I'm longing to get on again and I'm hoping that one of these opportunities comes through. Yeah, well, and someone hire him for a film

where he gains or loses 100 pounds. He's ready to go all in. I don't doubt your resolve. You know, it's great to see somebody that I respect so much get the kind of opportunities that you're getting and to see one after another how you're making the most of them is so pleasurable for an audience.

Congratulations in all your work this year. Thanks. Thank you so much. Thanks for your time today. Thank you. And so ends another edition of happy, sad, confused. Remember to review, rate, and subscribe to this show on iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm a big podcast person. I'm Daisy Ridley, and I definitely wasn't pressured to do this by Josh.

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