Happy Sad Confused - Mike Flanagan, Kate Siegel, Carla Gugino, & Rahul Kohli

Episode Date: November 11, 2024

Director Mike Flanagan has cultivated an amazing group of actors recurring in all of his projects from MIDNIGHT MASS and THE HAUNTING OF HILL HOUSE to THE FALL OF THE HOUSE OF USHER. Here they come together again for a talk about their first meetings, horror, future projects like THE LIFE OF CHUCK, THE EXORCIST, THE DARK TOWER, & more. SUPPORT OUR SPONSORS! BetterHelp -- Go to ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠BetterHelp.com/HSC ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠for 10% off UPCOMING LIVE EVENTS 11/12 -- Pamela Anderson and Gia Coppola at 92NY in NY -- ⁠⁠⁠⁠Tickets here⁠⁠⁠⁠ 12/3 -- John David Washington at 92Y in NY -- ⁠Tickets here⁠ 12/19 -- Ben Schwartz at 92Y in NY -- ⁠Tickets here Check out the ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Happy Sad Confused patreon here⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠! We've got discount codes to live events, merch, early access, exclusive episodes, video versions of the podcast, and more! To watch episodes of Happy Sad Confused, subscribe to ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Josh's youtube channel here⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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My only goal isn't to make the scariest movie ever made or to remake The Exorcist. My goal is to make the scariest movie I've ever made and try to make something that scares the shit out of me. Prepare your ears, humans. Happy, sad, confused begins now. Hey, guys, Josh here. I just wanted to say a very quick note before this very special episode of Happy, Say, Confused.

What you're about to experience was a live taping at New York Comic-Con, which is a live taping with Mike Flanagan, the great filmmaker behind Dr. Sleaf, Oculus, Gerald's Game, and all those great TV shows House of Usher, Midnight Mass. You know him. He's fantastic. But not only Mike was on this podcast taping, but three of his cohorts, three great actors that recur in his work, Rahul Koli, Carla Gugino, and Kate Siegel. This is a live taping, as I said, in front of a bunch of very enthusiastic fans at New York Comic-Con. I wanted to share this love with all of you because I'm,

such a fan of all these folks and they'd never been on the podcast. So I hope you guys enjoy this very special live taping of happy, sad, confused. Enjoy. Welcome, guys. My name's Josh Horowitz. I host a podcast called Happy, Sad, Confused, but today, thank you. Today, it is my honor, my privilege to welcome Mike Flanagan and the Flanagang. The Flanagan's, I don't know. I mean, come on, guys. The coolest rock group known to Man. By the way, whether you know or not, you're in my podcast right now, that we're recording this as a special episode of Happy, Sad, Confused, because I couldn't let this amazing talent go by without preserving this conversation.

I don't need to tell you guys about the resume of Mike Flanagan and his amazing actors here today, but he has done something so unique in creating this, like, all-star rep company that continually works in fantastic project after fantastic project, whether it's Usher, Blyhouse, the upcoming life of Chuck, by the way. You guys are going to love this film. So, yeah, and he is also, we're also just privileged that we have someone that is as much a fan as a master of genre filmmaking, working in TV and film today.

So I'm so thrilled to welcome in no particular order because I told them I want them to fight for seats out here. Please give it up for Mike Flanagan, for Kate Siegel, for Rahul Coley, and Carla Gugino. Make them feel welcome, everybody. There's an Olivia right in the front of your eye. I was going to say, that was actually going to be my first question, guys. Do you remember the first time you ever saw one of your characters

cosplayed at a convention? That's got to be a moment. It's such a moment. The thing that blows my mind more than that is the tattoos. I freaking love that. I don't know if it's my deep well of vanity, but seeing my face on somebody else's body just really, I'm chuffed, y'all.

I'm immortalized now for life on you. Show me my face. What about you guys? I mean, you've been coming to cons for a bit by now. So is it, it's never old hat. The energy of a Comic-Con is wholly unique, Carla. It really is. It is such a, it's so extraordinary to see all of you come out.

You know, I've lived my life so much of it on the screen since I was such a little kid. And so I feel like we have all lived it together. and that is a very, very special thing. I think my first, I think the first costume was maybe Sally Jupiter in Watchmen that I started seeing, which is a great costume. That was me. He looked amazing. Awkward, but cool.

Is there a name for the Flanagan gang? Is there an official... Do it. What do you got? So someone started calling it the Flanniverse, and our reaction, to that wasn't awesome. I didn't say that now. I can say that now.

And so what started happening was internally, we started to refer to everybody as the Flavengers. And when we have a new project, it's Flavengers Flessemble. Are there different text threads for the different projects, or the different WhatsApp groups, or there's one massive one for all of them? Okay, I can't talk about this, because Rahul is excluded from so many of them.

I had a feeling I wasn't in all of them. You were, and it's so funny because... I ruin every group thread. It's just that you will drop a bomb of a joke that'll just silence everyone as they slowly back away from their phone imagining it being read out loud in a deposition. We need an encrypted kind of text thread

that Rahul can feel safe in. Bletsap. Blet sap. He's just too edgy for this world. So it's talked to me a little bit about, I mean, I mentioned this from the start. Like, this is a unique thing. There aren't many filmmakers that I can think of that do you kind of have a rep company of a sort. I mean, it's like you and Wes Anderson, basically, out there.

How did this happen in kind of a haphazard way, or was it just sort of like you collected folks you liked? And yeah, I'm going to use them in a new purpose for my next project. Like, how did it happen? Yeah, it was certainly, it was not in. intentional. But as I was very nervous when I finally got to make movies. I didn't know what I was doing. I think most of us who make movies don't know what we're doing and we live in constant fear that people are going to figure that out. And when you have people that you trust and that you can cut through a lot of the, because making movies and TV is so difficult, your time is so crazily spread out. If you're You can communicate well with people. It just makes the process so much better. You have this baseline of trust.

It becomes telepathic communication at a certain point. And with the people that I work with again and again, it's like you just want them there. You want them on set. It makes the day better. So it's grown very organically. It certainly wasn't an intentional thing, but it's one of my favorite things about working. Kate, the first collaboration was Oculus, as I remember it. So what struck you about his methodology?

his sensibilities, that's connected with you from the start, do you think? Well, the first time I ever performed for Mike Flanagan was an audition for another movie that actually never became a movie. And for the record, I didn't book it. He didn't cast me in that movie. Thank you. But I went in, and normally in these auditions, you prepare a huge amount of material.

I think it was eight pages. It was very emotional. And they'll put you through your paces if you're lucky. Generally, you get to run it once, and they go, thank you. And Mike ran it three or four times, giving me direction, pulling me all the way from one end to the other. And it was a time in my career when I was feeling really despondent, just like I was being let in like cattle and let out like cattle

and not having any success. And after I felt like I had run through all of my tricks and did my routine at the end of like, and Mike looked at me and he just said, hey, can you do one more? and I was so ready with my like, yes, Gold Star, anything you want, what do you want for me? I was there.

And he was just like, just do one the way you want to do it. Just do it for you. And really, I almost burst into tears because it had been so long since I felt like my art had belonged to me. And I think that feeling is held by every one of the Flaventers. That Mike truly wants you to own your art.

And that is true of everybody on that set. Set design, sound, camera work. Everybody owns their art and brings it to the candy salad of whatever the movie is. And I was immediately addicted to working with him. And then I fell in love with him. Because he's so damn handsome. Hi. What are you doing later? Yep. Just sit with it, everybody. Let the awkwardness happen in front of us. Now, can you set the record straight? I think I heard Mike say this. Is it true that you like to make up plots of movies

that you pretend that you've seen in your life? Well, what's funny is that I've seen every movie, so I'm not making anything. But it's not not true. You should hear her try to riff her way through what she thinks Dog Day Afternoon is about. Yeah. Remind me again what happens in Dog Day Afternoon?

Oh, no, absolutely. Dog Day Afternoon is an incredible film about a boy and his cat and what they've done is this boy wanted a dog very badly but unfortunately he has a history of eating dogs so

he should be animated when she does this anyways mom got him a cat because his mom was going to space and she wanted someone to take care of him but he spends an entire day treating this cat like a dog they go out they play

fetch they solve crimes and then come home from a well spent afternoon. Come on, give it up for dog day afternoon. You should check it out. Dog day afternoon, am I right?

Your mom? Was she the one in space? That's incredible. There we go. There are a couple different dog day afternoons. That's amazing. This is at the record straight. Carly, your origin story, I believe, was Gerald's game, as I recall, with Mike, which kind of sets the bar right there. A big ask,

a challenging performance, an unusual kind of, you know, one of those so-called unfilmable Stephen King adaptations that you've specialized in, I feel like, over the years. What do you recall about getting that role and the challenge of working on that one in particular? Well, that was an unusual circumstance because I had heard through my agents that Mike Flan was interested in meeting about this movie that was going very, very quickly. And there was a short list of people that he was meeting with and, you know, did I want to. So I read the script, and I thought, wow, there is nowhere to hide, literally, or figuratively. As you know, she is handcuffed to a bed and in a negligee.

and then, you know, everything, craziness ensues. So I thought, well, I need to talk to this guy. This adaptation is very cool, but I really, I would be having to jump in extremely quickly and put myself in this person's hands. And so we ended up talking, what you didn't tell me at the time was that basically had this not come through

very, very quickly, you know, the movie would not have happened, but he played it very cool. And we talked when you were scouting, You were already in Mobile, Alabama, where we shot it. And we started talking about, basically within about three minutes. I was like, I want to help this guy make his movie. Like, I feel completely this innate trust very quickly. I don't know how I knew that to be true, but it absolutely was.

And we delved in. I mean, from the moment that I read the script to the moment we were filming, our first shot was two weeks all in. Bruce Greenwood had been cast. Someone else was going to do the movie and had to drop out for crazy stories, crazy reasons. And we just hit the ground running. I mean, literally, Bruce and I had dinner every night

with our scripts in hand just running lines. Because we shot it, it was sort of like a one-act play. I mean, we shot it predominantly in this one small location with a small crane that would just follow us around. And I would play the various Jesse's in a row. So we would just sort of, and then that was where we got to me. I mean, it was such an, it was an incredible experience that was insanely challenging and one of the most joyous times I've ever had on a set as well.

So, yeah, it was a crazy, crazy entry. We definitely had to jump in full force together. And a few of you who have come to the table this morning already when we were doing our signings. I've said this probably 10 times this morning when people bring up that movie. And I say, Carla saved us. she saved the movie she saved the cast and the crew and it wasn't just that she came in and took

the part and ran with it Carla showed up and took a crew that was panicked because we had thought the movie might not happen that were incredibly stressed about kind of throwing this new unknown element into the mix so quickly and I know Bruce was like

this is someone I don't have a previous relationship with this is someone I have to get to know right away and he was like how is this going to work and Carla came in and kind of took everybody's anxiety and quieted it right away on her first rehearsal day. And everyone relaxed and calmed down

and Carla very much took a leadership position in the movie. And I knew the first week that it was like, I want to work with this person forever. And thus far, we have for the most part. Yeah, it's good. So it's such a gift. I know this is turning into like a roast of Mike Flanagan in the best possible way, but just go with it.

Rahul, your origin story, I guess, was it just another audition at the time for Bly Banner? Yeah, I just done a tape. Like, it's not particularly, it's so strange. It had such a regular mundane feel to everything. Like, the thing that was about to happen was going to change my life, but it came about very just routine. I had just finished I-Zombie and then... Thanks. And I didn't know where the next show was coming from.

And I got just, it was like, it said Hill House sequel. And I did a tape with my mum, which was an experience. And then, like, a few days later, my team called me and said, yep, you're off to Vancouver. And I was like, okay, cool. And that was it. And then we're very quickly after meeting Mike and we, Mike directed the pilot. So that was when I worked with him. I feel like a few days in, you started sizing me up and ask me questions about, like, how old do you think you can play and things like that?

And I was like, oh, something's happening. And at a certain point, we met and you talked to me about Midnight Mass. So, yeah, it's, like I said, it's one of those things. It wasn't like, like I said, being a part of the, what are we calling ourselves? Avengers. Avengers. You're not in the group text, so you don't know. Yeah, it's the first I've heard of it.

But being a part of that, for me, it started just really quiet. And I didn't realize that what I was about to embark on has been one of the most important journeys of my life and career. And I've made friends for life and I've got to work. I mean, I'm sitting next to Carla Gugino, man. I fell in love. I told you this on block. I, when I saw Carlo, I was like, oh my God, Bon Jovi always music video.

Because I was in Thailand, I was like, I was a kid. We didn't have any English-speaking shows except MTV, and they were pumping that music video. So you just remind me of this, this vacation. But yeah, it's been incredible. I mean, yeah, go ahead, Mike. Can I embarrass him just a little bit? Please. So when we were shooting the pilot of Bly, we were in prep on Midnight Mass at the same time.

And so I was on set for Bly that I was trying to get Midnight Mass up in the background and I was already looking at him off his tape as like, oh, he could be terrific for Sheriff Hassan, but I wasn't sure and I didn't really know him. And so there's a scene in the pilot of Bly or, you know, pilot or second of, yeah, pilot where he's unloading groceries in the kitchen that he shows up with shopping bags, is unloading them. And there wasn't much direction to give for this because he was just being in the kitchen. charming kind of Owen self and putting away the groceries. And I was like, I want to get a sense of like who this guy really is because everybody behaves very different when they show up on set and everybody's being very proper and being very trying to make a good impression, especially on a pilot.

And so I just started making up really ridiculous directions for the groceries. And I was like, it's very important that you start with the bananas. and I want you to take those out first with your left hand with your right hand I want you to be reaching for the bread and then I want you to lift them both up at the same time and place them on the counter and I'm watching him go uh-huh right and I'm just making shit up left and right and just like seeing what he would do and he's like uh-huh yeah and then

right you're fucking with me aren't you and then I was like oh we're gonna get along, great. This is great. And that was the, it was the, it was the, you're fucking with me, aren't you? Where I was like, yeah, we can work together. I didn't know that. To be fair, Rahul. I thought it was just my apps, like my talent. I didn't know. It was the banter that got it. I just met Rahul backstage. And first thing, he fucked with me by asking about the performance of his girlfriend and Kate's new film, by the way. So, yeah, turn about his fair play. I buried the lead. I said, what did you think of the lead? of VHS Stowaway.

Thank God I said I liked her. You did take that pause. You were like, something is up. Yeah, you did take that pause. I didn't know what he was fishing for. Oh, my gosh. Hit pause on whatever you're listening to and hit play on your next adventure.

This fall get double points on every qualified stay. Life's the trip. Make the most of it at BestWestern. Visit bestwestern.com for complete terms and conditions. Oh, this is it, the day you finally ask for that big promotion. You're in front of your mirror with your Starbucks coffee. Be confident. Assertive. Remember eye contact. But also, remember to blink. Smile, but not too much. That's weird. What if you aren't any good at your job?

What if they dim out you instead? Okay, don't be silly. You're smart. You're driven. You're going to be late if you talking to the mirror. This promotion is yours. Go get them. Starbucks. It's never just coffee. So if there is a theme, perhaps, that does recur in your work, there are several, but

fucked up families, that's in there, which brings us maybe to the latest work that many of folks here have seen fall of the House of Usher. Super effed up family. congratulations, like the mother load of them all. How did that one come together? Was that in your brain for a while to bring that story and give it your own spin? Yeah, I've wanted to adapt to Poe since I was a kid, you know, and to try to find a way to do Poe that hadn't really, I think, been done like that before.

He's one of those, it's like with the turn of the screw with Henry James. There are so many adaptations, like how do you do something that is different? And with this one, it was at a time when I think we've all felt like we had a lot to say about the country and a lot to say about kind of the wealth gap. And it just seemed like this delicious opportunity to kind of do something that was funny and dark and wicked and twisted. And that just felt like different music than what we've been making. And I think we had talked at one point about like, oh, Hillhouse is like classical music. and Bly Manors, like a string quartet, and House of Usher's Rock and Roll

with a little heavy metal. And it was like, this is really fun. But it was, I remember on Midnight Mass already talking to the cast about the characters I thought that they would play in Usher and kind of pulling everybody aside and being like, what do you think of this?

What do you think of that? Which was really fun for Carla because it was like, what do you think of these nine versions? I was going to say, yeah, what's the reaction? That's got to be, like, a good conversation to have. Like, oh, yeah, this is going to be a challenge, but this is going to be delicious. Yeah, that's an understatement for sure on both of those counts.

Well, it was a while because I donated my voice, but I was not actually up there with you guys for midnight mass, so I didn't have the conversation that on set, it was you basically called and you were like, I think I want to, you know, I want to do Poe and, Would you be interested in The Raven? I think you'd be great as the Raven. And I said, yes. And that was all I needed. But then, as you started writing scripts,

you were like, well, you know, sort of each, I kept getting each script as it came, so I didn't get to binge it. I had to actually wait for each script, but he's really fast. So, but every time I was like, oh, God, this is, she's, yeah, okay. And then I've got, okay, now that, maybe that's how I would approach that and then oh and then and then she kept going and then I got so I was riveted and then I became terrified when I realized I had to play her I basically was like oh right and now comes I better pull this off or else I will ruin the whole show so it was an extraordinary I mean I could go on

forever about what that process was for me there weren't any there were there were some of the some of the incarnations of Verna had very specific things written and some there were no accents so we were able to explore that together so I would come and sort of you know Mike would be in his office on a moment off with a pizza on your desk and I'd be like what do you think about and then I would audition for him basically an accent for one of the characters and feel like oh this person might be from the Midwest or this person and we were very almost all of them I think you really like we clicked in with right away except for the we were there were There was a moment where our escort in Goldbug was going to be, I had kind of initially

thought of her as being this sort of like New Yorker, heart on her sleeve, kind of crack. Like she had like this, I don't know, there was this idea that I had, and Mike kept going, you know, really supportive, like, uh-huh, uh-huh. I think that, and then finally I was like, I don't think this one, I feel like, he was like, yeah, I just feel like she might not be her. And so I said, maybe she's a Brit. And in that moment, we just started playing with it. He was like, that's where she lives.

And so that's the amazing thing about being able to collaborate with somebody that you have no ego and innate trust. And you know you have an extremely strong leader. I mean, this is the thing. Directors who have a very strong perspective, especially atours, especially someone who's written and is directing, and in this case also editing. So they have ownership over it and a very clear vision. they are truly collaborative. And so that's the difference. The people who are really resistant

are usually insecure. So there's this great thing that can happen, which is you skip a bunch of steps and you get to actually just cut to the quick and go, oh, okay, there she is. Great, we got it onward. So it was an incredible, one of the most extraordinary experiences of my career and my creative life.

And then to get to work with people that you love and respect so much as a cast is, I mean, I have no words for it. You blow me away every time. Kate is one of the most precise actors on the planet. It's really extraordinary to watch, super facile, and also just insanely precise. And that's a really, really special talent. And then we just got to go to town.

I was hoping you'd just go, and Rolls tall. You are very tall. We did have a blast. We just got a taste. We need more, but yes. I'm wondering for, yeah, for Cain Rahul, are you ever surprised at the roles that Mike approaches

you with? Because I think what's also striking to me in all your collaborations is you see many different facets of them. You're not casting them in the same type of role in each project. And that is the greatest gift I feel like any actor can have with the collaborators to feel seen and to see what you can

show off that you haven't before. So I guess like what's the back and forth? Have you been in a case where he's come to you with one kind of role and you're like, really, this is this is the one? I think I struggled the most with Aaron Green because what Mike wanted for Aaron was the most private part of me. Like I as a person when I feel perceived, like I immediately put the jazz hands on and start running the jokes and kind of like, look over here, look over here, look over here. so that the rest of it can still be secret and safe. And originally, it was Aaron who burned up in the rowboat. And when Mike made that swap, he came to me,

and that was when he started saying, like, I think I want you to play Aaron. And I was like, no, no, no, you know, honestly, I would be a fabulous, Bev. Like, let's be clear. I was like, you know, what about, like, lady sheriff? or what about mother paul um and and i started reading aaron and i started to see how you saw me in that way and then on set it was just it was a a daily exercise in stripping

away and i would try to do a little like juz and he would say no and i would say but what about this and no and I got I also got these and he'd be like none of those and I think the perfect example of that was there's a moment spoiler alert when Aaron shoots Bev and the line is now we have five minutes and when I tell you I was ready to be Ripley in that moment with the gun and I'm like what about like a close up and like a smash cut to me and we went back and forth on that a lot of because there's a certain amount of Erin who didn't know what to say but knew that there's supposed to be like

a rousing statement there but you see her sort of not quite hit it and that's the beauty of Erin is that she's little moves and she's gentle but after I was able to kind of like cut myself open and bleed out all of what I thought was private

and then became public he gifted me with Camille who is only jazz hands. Just jazz hands. And you'll be doing full jazz hands in The Exorcist, we can say. You're just going to be singing and dancing, obviously. Yeah, no, absolutely.

All singing, all dancing, Exorcist. Rahul, which of the opportunities have shocked you in the best possible way? We talked about the sheriff. That's got to be an amazing kind of... You had never played that kind of role before, I presume, and that's an opportunity. So, Ravi was the I-Zombie thing playing Sweet Boys was kind of like my forte at that point,

and Owen was kind of similar to that. So the sheriff was the first like, oh, okay, cool. I think I was 33 at the time, and we thought the sheriff was about 42, 40. So I was already going to be playing up, have a teenage son. I don't speak Arabic. I'm not Muslim so there was a lot there I'm not American

shocker you are a sheriff though I am a sheriff yes yeah that was easy but yeah that one that was a tough one for me like I

I wrestled with it every day it felt like an ill-fitting costume I think and I was always it was such it was a character that was super contained and we never really wanted him to peak right we always wanted him to sort of simmer and just the way that shooting worked out the only time he boils over is the last week of filming so for six months I felt like I was just smoldering and then you'd wait for a crew member to be like great scene and no one did because I just stood there like that and I'd go home but it was it changed me

That role changed me because I was terrified, super insecure. I didn't feel like I'd proven myself with that role. And once it came out and we had the reception we had, it changed me. It developed a, not that I didn't trust Mike, I obviously trust Mike, but it deepened that to the point now where if Mike's like, I want you to play the little possessed girl an exorcist, I'm like, got you, because I know he wants the best for me and he's not going to let me fail. So, um, okay, so you're a little possessed girl, your jazz hands.

What's Carla? Who am I? Carla plays both the priest and the devil. Yeah. Clearly. Carl Gagena doesn't do one role anymore, guys. It's two or two and above at a minimum. Breaking news, we have not one but two directors on the panel.

I want to give someone up to Kate's congratulations, Kate. VHS beyond you can check out a big moment big you know I mean new skill set new talents unlocked I mean talk to me a little bit about I don't know new perspective new found respect or less respect for what Mike does yeah super easy what are you talking about I yeah I I love it I'm really happy to be expanding in the world like that but I had I had flinched from it from for so long because I knew how much work it was and I'm a sleepy girl and I did want to take a nap and directors don't get to take naps actors sometimes do but so I kind of approached it with

little trepidation and I worked as hard as I could and I tried to be as precise as I was but very quickly I realized that all of the misfitting of acting that can happen for me where I have to silence my brain and I have to work really hard not to be mean to myself or to be too controlling at any moment. All of these things that I thought were faults in me as an artist were benefits to me as a director. And so there was a certain ease in that transition for me because while I haven't done it before and the first time I picked up a camera was to shoot VHS beyond, I had been sitting next to Mike Flanagan for 12 years. And there is no better role model when it comes to hard work, point of view, the way you run a set, and how you

kind of gently guide a story into existence. And so with Mike cheering me from behind, I was able to fully step into this moment, which is when you're doing something for the first time, there's no voice in the back of your head about how it should be done. You don't know a lot. and you can either let that be your detriment or you can let that be your superpower. So when I said part of my short takes place in space and it was a very low budget situation but I was like no I want zero gravity

and so I just was like how will you do this for six peanuts and a wad of bubble gum and I worked it out and figured it out but I think if I had been a more experienced filmmaker I would have been like we have to change the script I can't do it. And so I hope to continue approaching directing like that, like with the goldfish memory.

Every time is my first time. And a nap or two if you can sneak it in. I would love a nap. It's been a really long time. I also want to give some love. Next year you guys are in for a treat. The Life of Chuck is Mike's upcoming film. I was privileged enough to see this.

It debuted at the Toronto Film Festival. It won the audience award, which look it up. Any film that wins the audience award, great things happen. This is a very special piece of work based on Stephen King's work. Not relying on scares, it's a different kind of Stephen King, more of the stand-by-mey, Shawshank side of things. This has to feel like a very personal work for you. It's about life, death, what's important. Can you talk to us a little bit about Life of Chuck?

Yeah, Life of Chuck. Has anyone read the short story? Not a lot of people are familiar with the short story. It came out in If It Bleeds and was not one of the more celebrated stories that he wrote. It's one of my favorite things he's ever written. And as I was reading it, I finished the story crying down my face and feeling like I wanted this movie to exist in the world for my kids. And we got to make the movie that we wanted to make completely independently. We had no idea of anyone would ever, well, we were pretty certain a studio would never make the movie.

And we had no idea if anyone would ever buy the movie and put it out. But it's of the feature films I've gotten to work on in my career, it's my favorite by a lot. But it is very different. It's not at all horror, like you said. It's the kind of softest, gooeyest, most humanist side of Stephen King and of me, too. but I just love it and I hope you guys get to see it sooner than later

it won't be till next year but yeah please check it out when you can it's pretty lovely all that plus you get Tom Hiddleston dancing and that's epic

and everybody up here is in it you know everybody on stage Carla kind of like midnight mass you hear her But we, I got to show Carla the movie yesterday. It's so extraordinary. I'm so excited for you guys to see it. I was actually saying to Mike, one thing I think I can say that doesn't give anything away,

but that you all, having followed his stories, is that Mike has this incredible ability to cut to the quick of what it is to be human and how we find ourselves through our connection with others and how each person that we meet along the way we take with us. And that's really such a theme in everything. And that theme is here, though the genre is very different. It's this deep humanity, lack of sentimentality, and yet you will weep. So it's extraordinary. Yeah, really cool.

It also, Stephen King came out to Toronto. Stephen King doesn't often go out in public for these kinds of things. And look, you've obviously adapted his work before, but that's not a given. I'm curious, like, what is the relationship? now with Stephen King, does he give notes? Is he just totally hands off? Like, what's... Well, I've had the weirdest evolution of that relationship,

because when we did Gerald's game, I never spoke to him at all. You know, he keeps at a distance. He has a lot of approvals that he exercises. Like, Steve approves everything, every cast member, kind of every big decision you submit to him and he approves it. But there's a wall that he is very comfortable. on the other side of. And he says all the time, the book is mine, the movie is yours.

And he explained that later when I finally did meet him. I didn't meet him until after Dr. Sleep was done. And we brought the movie to Bangor and screened it for him. And I sat next to him in an empty movie theater and watched Dr. Sleep. It was crazy. No pressure. Oh, no. And I was nauseous the whole time.

And I just stared at him, which I'm sure made his experience. sure made his experience really weird, and every time he kind of went, I was like, he likes it. And if he didn't, he's like, oh no. And that is a long movie. It lasted for a really long time. But I asked him about that separation afterward, and he said, well, I can't lose. If the movie's great, people say, of course it's great. It's based on a great book. But if the movie sucks, they say the book was better. I win no matter what. And these days, you know, it was with Gerald's game when the movie was over, he sent me an email.

And I framed it, and they still have it up in my office. And when Dr. Sleep was over, I got to actually meet him and watch it with him. And then he started to text and email me. And then with Life of Chuck, they had said, hey, would be? Would Steve come out to Toronto and be there? And I said, no way. There's no way. He doesn't do that.

And then he reached out the week of the screening and said, I really want to come be in the theater. I really love this movie, and I want to be there for it. And so he showed up, and I asked him when he got there, when the last time he'd come to a premiere was. And he said it was the Green Mile in 1999. So it was 25 years. and yeah

he he loves the movie what was really neat was watching Mark Hamill geek out because Stephen King was there and he just kept going Stephen King is here and there are these

wonderful candid pictures of them in the audience that Steve doesn't know Mark's sitting there going and the festival didn't know he was going to be there either. And so I got to introduce the movie and I got to say, and I'm delighted to tell you all Stephen King is in the audience, and he stood up with his can of Diet Pepsi and he waved, and the place got to its feet. And he got a standing ovation before the movie. And I've never seen anything like that. Unbelievable.

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Learn more at SAP.com slash uncertainty. And the collaboration continues. Yeah. Dark Tower. Another super chill, easy adaptation. Piece of cake. Piece of cake. It's going to be fine.

Everything's fine. Why is he sweating all of a sudden? What just happened? Speaking of nausea. Yeah. What, I mean, this is a big question. But like, what do you, how do you approach that? How do you capture what is a massive, the massive,

Do you have an answer to that? I'd love to know. I'll send you an email with notes. I mean, these are the questions that keep me up at night. But I honestly think the only way to do it is to just do the books. You know, I think the thing about the Dark Tower that's so incredible is Stephen King builds an astonishing universe, and it's huge. And it's populated with such a richness of characters and scale. in scope eventually. But he starts that story with one person following another person in a barren

desert. It's one of the greatest opening lines of any novel of all time. That's how you do it. You start with two people in a simple story. One is trying to catch the other. That's it. And everything else is gradually added to it. And I think that's how you do the Dark Tower. or you build it one brick at a time. I can understand the gravity that has pulled people into being like, oh, we'll jump in in the middle, or we'll jump in over here, or we try to jump ahead to show the big scale of this thing. You can't start like that.

You can't. And fortunately, Stephen King is a master storyteller who's constructed a magnum opus and an epic that begins very intimately and ends very intimately, and in the middle expands into this giant world. I think that's the only way to do it, and that's how we're going to do it. But, yeah, we'll see.

It's taking forever, so I'm sorry about that. They're patient. We'll wait. Don't worry. Raoul, when are we going to get you in a superhero movie, for God's sakes? Come on. You've been fan-casted. You've been fan-casted to death.

When I start going gym, maybe. I'm probably not helping myself, to be honest. I don't know. I've had some nilies. It will happen, I'm sure, one day. So, can you set the record straight? Because I feel like I've heard different things. Did you actually get to meet on Reed Richards on Mr. Fantastic?

Were you up for that? Now he's sweating. I did a tape. Okay. That's it. It was blown out of proportion. I read stuff like him and Pedro Pascal were down to the last two. No, I did a tape, and I'd never read back.

I still got my fingers. No. No, I mean, but I've done tapes for. Deadpool, I've done tapes for everything. Like, it doesn't mean anything. Like, there's tons of stuff that, life-changing things that I read for, and then it's just, like, a silent fart.

It just disappears. And then it's an audition for Bligh Manor that changes your life. You never know. Then it's the Bligh Manor that changes your life. But again, it's like, you know, the big one for me was Star Wars. Obviously, I became an actor because of Star Wars,

and I had some nearly's with that, but instead I got to work with Mark Hamilton. See, I brought it back to Usher. Good job, good job. And just because you're in Star Wars, doesn't mean that you get to share the screen with Luke Skywalker. Pretty rare, yeah.

That was one of the greatest gifts ever. And then this hasn't even been said publicly. So when Mike does, just like Mike showed Carla Chuck, so Mike will work his way around the cast at a certain point to say, do you want to see the series, or do you want to see the film? And when it was Usher's turn, we watched all of Usher over two days randomly with Hayden Christensen. Who we've become friends with.

When I tell you the level of anxiety of watching a show you're in knowing your scenes are coming up, while your hero's next to you. And every time I appeared on camera, he'd elbow me. It was the most surreal. So, yeah, I haven't done stuff. But I was like, nothing's going to top those things. Great. I feel like I've done Star Wars in my own way.

We've joked about Exorcists, but I would be remiss if I didn't ask a serious kind of update question. Because, I mean, again, my favorite horror movie of all time, The Exorcist, the original. What are you trying to capture in this? What's important to you about approaching a new Exorcist film? Well, it's a familiar feeling of nausea, again. I felt the same one with Dr. Sleep, where it was like, what did I do?

The Exorcist is one of those movies that was incredibly formative for me. It shaped me. I saw it too young, and it really fucked me up. But I think, and they've made so many. sequels, prequels to it, and none of them come close, right? You can't do The Exorcist. There's no point in remaking it. There's no point in trying to do that story again or better than the way it was done.

So you have to do something new, and you have to do something that rhymes with it and that harmonizes with it, but that isn't trying to replace it or retread it. Yeah, a musical. We're doing a musical. We're doing a musical. But, so my goal with the, the exorcist, the Jazz Hands Exorcist. It was the scariest movie of its time. That was half a century ago.

And my only goal isn't to make the scariest movie ever made or to remake The Exorcist. My goal is to make the scariest movie I've ever made and try to make something that scares the shit out of me. and so that's what the appeal is for me. But, yeah, what we're doing with it is a completely new thing. It's a completely new story. It's not a retread. It's not a remake. It's not an update. And I can tell you that the two movies I'm watching the most to try to get this kind of energy channeled. Of course, I'm watching Friedkin's masterpiece, but I'm looking a lot at The Exorcist 3.

Yes, Queen. Solid movie. Which is a great movie. It has some ideas, I think, that are just ripe to be explored further. And I love that movie. Brad Doroff, George C. Scott. Best jump scare may be in cinematic history in that. That hallway sequence in the hospital is fucking astonishing, if you haven't seen it.

And it has Patrick Ewing in it. New York Knicks fans. Come on. Oh, yeah. Fabio is in it, too. That's the thing we're bringing back. Yeah, obviously, you've got to keep Fabio. Yeah. But yeah, the script is due November 1st, so I got to get writing.

We'll get you out of here in a second. So that was the movie you saw too young that fucked you up. Any other nominees for a movie you guys saw early on that maybe it was a little too early? Showgirls. I saw it in Spain, really young. And I thought, when I see a swimming pool, even now, I'm like... A quick follow-up. How young? Oh, under 10.

Oh, wow. Yeah. Explains a lot. Yeah. I saw Jaws at 5, and I lived in Florida. So it was really bad. I ran from the theater and then didn't go in the water for about a year, which, yeah, it was not a good move. my mom's part, and she apologized.

So both of those movies made you both look at water a certain way. There you go. My go-to answer for this has always been while you were sleeping. This movie really fucks me up. I have this, like, real problem with, like, reality not being reality. And imagine waking up from a coma, and your life is entirely different. And your whole family is like, this life is amazing for you. your amazing life and you're like this doesn't feel right and there's this woman staring at you

and it's like I love you and you're like I don't know what this feels and so eventually you just go along with it and you're like all right this is my life now and you've adopted this reality and then it's like ha ha just kidding I was lying the whole time it's psychological torture at the most specific level is this is this the real plot or is this another dog day afternoon because I've not seen it And then your mom goes to space, and you're like, I don't know what to do with this cat all day. Thanks for ruining while you were sleeping for everybody. We thought it was a fun movie, Kate.

It is not a fun movie. It's a terrible movie, plus public transportation. It just makes me miss it. I live in L.A. I'm stuck in my car. I'm so lonely. I'm so lonely. All 500 of us are getting in the subway together after this. It's going to be okay.

Is there a... Okay, for like a, say you approach someone that says, I don't love horror, it's just not for me. What's the starter? What's the entry point? What would you recommend? Well, I don't love you. You're not for me. I literally said that to Mike.

He did. Oh, I made a list. It's, so when people do, I mean, I always do like, oh, you can do poltergeist, you know. But the thing I love to do is I'd say, oh, martyrs. And if you've seen it, you know. it's so mean but people will be like what's a good entry level? I'm like there's a great French

film and like oh French I'm like yes it's called martyrs and they're like oh great I'm like it's nice and gentle it'll ease you into the into the genre and then they call up and like what the fuck dude I'm like that's what you get for asking me for like an entry level horror movie but no then I say I watch Gremlins I don't know

watch while you were sleeping watch while you were sleeping with Sondra Bullock and Bill Pullman. Terrifying. Terrifying. Peter Gallagher. Peter, the eyebrows. No, but he's... I know, it's happening to him. I know, he's the victim.

He's the final girl. He's the final girl of while you were sleeping. Yeah, it's very sad. Everybody stick around for the while you were sleeping reunion in this room right after. It's suddenly changed completely. We're going to end with the happy, say, confused, profoundly random questions, guys.

As if these haven't been random enough. Are you ready? Ready. Okay. Are you dog or cat people? Dog. Dog. Dog.

But I don't hate cats. Liar. Liar. He's lying. I love cats. We have to choose. We have to pick one. Yeah.

Cats are great. Are they? Wow. My favorite's Kate. My new favorite. What do you collect, guys? Do you collect anything? What do we collect?

Yeah. Parts in Mike Flanagan shows. Who's winning that? Who's doing what? Who's winning the parts in the... I actually know. It's Henry, right? It's a tie between you and Henry.

Woo! Yeah. Exorcist, here I come. I think you need to win this race. Right? Yeah. There's a problem. There's a problem.

Henry has to, yeah. We have to have a discussion. I collect movie props. Yeah, I have a lot of movie props. From other movies? Yeah, a lot of other movies. I finally am smart enough to steal them from my own movies now, which is, it took me way too long to figure that out.

But no, I've got a bunch of, I've got one of the baseball bats from the natural. I've got Rackacconi from everything everywhere all at once. Yeah. Like, yeah, one of the, there are four Wonder Boys, I think. I think in the world. I've got one of them. Cool. What about you guys? Do you collect anything, Carla Rule? I used to collect high heels.

I was always shorter than I wanted to be. That was not going to be my answer. I'm giving some to you because now I live in New York City and I don't wear it. It's creepy. Her whole just has a closet full of Carla's shoes. Yeah, what's the problem? Our feet are the same size. Have you seen Bon Jovi Always video?

Mine's everything. Warhammer. hammer, hot toys. I shouldn't have adult money. It's just, I piss it away so fast on like, look at this, Darth Vader helmet or. Didn't you recently get into watches? Watches. Not as relatable as just action figures, but yeah, everything.

I just, yeah, I have an addictive personality and if I'm not doing bad stuff and drinking. it's buying toys and I think that's the safe thing now so yeah what's the wallpaper on any of your respective phones anything interesting mine's my kids banjo it's a dog banjo who's that text from can you just read it out loud for us once the panel is done they bring you back over It's nothing exciting on my phone. Last actor, any of you were mistaken for.

Does it ever happen? Oh, will you tell the airport story? This is great. This is great. I'll try to keep it very short. So Kate calls me, she's traveling from L.A. to Vancouver, and she says, we're talking about the John Voight story, or the... I was thinking about the Elizabeth Olson story, but this is...

Oh, no, no, no, no, okay, no, the Elizabeth Olson. one's even better. It's a better story. So we're going through the airport together. We're going through security. And I see this happen sometimes where Kate comes around and someone's like, go over the, oh. And you see the like recognition moment happen.

And the TSA guy is like, uh, uh, uh, come on through, come on through. And like, Kate's like, thank you very much. And like, oh, wow, oh, oh. And Kate walks by, and I'm kind of waiting behind anonymously, which is fine. And she goes through and he turns to me. and to the other TSA people, he goes, you know who that was? And I'm like, and he goes, Elizabeth Olson.

She was in four Marvel movies. She was in four Marvel movies. I also don't think is right. I don't think that's math is correct either. And I'm there and I'm like, well, yes it was. Certainly. And then I walked, ran up and Elizabeth. No autographs, please.

Yeah. My favorite was I was sharing a, car with John Voight once and he turned to me and he goes, you kind of look like my daughter. Wow. The best part about that though and where I went there because of the mistaken identity thing was she called me

and said, I'm in a car with Christopher Wacken. Who was so good as the cat in Dog Day Afternoon? More Calvin. No, I at this point get, you look so much like Carly Gugino. Does anyone tell you that?

And generally I say, I do get that often. So that's what's at this point. I did get mistaken for many years, and now that seems to be the thing. It's okay. There's no one who looks like. There's only one rule. John Krasinski I get, but that's like just, I look.

No one goes, oh my God, it's John Krasinski. But like, if you go on any clip, it will say Brown Jim or, Yeah, I don't get recognized, so I don't get mistaken either. I just, yeah. I used to be I saw that, yeah, sometimes. I will say the group text chain has an awful lot of John Krasinski memes that we put up when Roholds doing stuff.

He's the reaction gift, yeah. The worst note a director has ever given you. I'll take the banana out first. Let's put the breadloat. Yes. I love a good callback. Well done. Anyone else?

Anything jumped to mind of a... No. Okay, good. I can't think of it right now. There are several, but... You blocked it out for the best, yeah. And finally, in the spirit of happy, second fuse, who's an actor that always makes you happy?

You see them on screen, you light up. Rahul Koli. Aw. Lies. Anyone else? Like just in general? In general? Yeah.

Oh, I mean, damn, there's thousands. There's so many. I know. There's so many. I mean, I can't not watch Merrill Streep. I just, it's such a predictable answer, and yet she made me want to act. So every time I see her,

I'm just blown away by that woman. I always love watching Tom Hanks always. Like, just there's a little. familiarity and warmth to it, but you know who, like, delights me constantly these days is Jack Quaid. Whenever I see Jack Quaid pop up, I'm like, ah, yeah. I actually have the one because we just ran into each other here, too. Mads Mickelson.

That man, Mads is here? That man makes me happy every time I see him on screen. That guy is unbelievable. He's here? He's actually here, guys. We ought to meet Mads. Oh, since. I want to meet Matt's Nicholson.

I want to meet Mattz. Let's get an autograph. Matt Berry. We would just... Oh, yeah. Every time I see Matt Berry, I just... Good call. I also, I thought of my note, my director note story that I'd like to tell.

So in the TV show, Midnight Mass. Wait, who directed that one? Oh, shit. Here we are. Who can say? It's hard to know. There is a scene where my character is doing a little exposition and lets everybody knows that they They've sent the boats back to the mainland.

They're called fairies. Ferries. Ferries. Ferries. Ferries. Ferries. Ferries. Ferries.

Ferries. And I want you to imagine Mike and I doing this from across a soundstage at each other at three in the morning. Say, cut, fairies. It's fairies. I would say fairies. And that rhymes with, like, it's fairies that rhymes with berries. Ferries. Yeah.

Not fairies, that's tinkerbell. Ferries like tinkerbell with wings. For a really long time. Ferry's, right, with an E. And everyone is, you feel the whole vibe shift, and they're like, fuck, mom and dad are fighting. And after a while of going fairies? Ferrys.

Ferrys. Ferrys. He just goes, fuck it, action. Well, thank you all for being at this therapy session for Mike and Kate. Thank you all so much for coming out. Give it up for this amazing group. Mike Flanick and Rahul Koli, Carl Gugino, Kate Siegel, everybody. And so ends another edition of Happy, Sad, Confused.

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