Happy Sad Confused - Morena Baccarin

Episode Date: February 23, 2022

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Get after him or have you shot You mean blow up the building From this moment on None of you are safe New episodes every Wednesday Wherever you get your podcasts Prepare your ears, humans. Happy, sad, confused begins now.

Today on Happy, Sad Confused, Marana Baccarin, from Firefly and Deadpool to the Endgame. Hey guys, I'm Josh Harowitz. Welcome to another edition of Happy, Sad, Confused. New guest on the pod this week, Marina Baccaran, fellow New Yorker, Marina Baccarin. I knew I knew I would vibe with Morena as soon as we started chatting. today. I recognize a kindred spirit, a dark, self-deprecating, take-no-prisoners attitude. I mean, I wish I could relate. She's actually much tougher than I am, but she's awesome. This is a great conversation with a very talented actor. She, of course, is notable for her work

in both TV and film. The TV work includes stuff like V or Firefly, and now in the new NBC series, The End Game. This is a show that has just debuted on NBC. A big, muscular kind of action thriller directed by Justin Lin in the pilot, so you know it's got attitude and action bona fides and a exciting to see Marina in a leading role. It's a two-hander. She's one of the two leads in it, and she is kind of this mysterious arms dealer. There's a lot of intrigue around her character right from the get-go, so a juicy role

for her, very happy for her, and happy it brought her to the podcast today to talk about the entirety of her career. And yes, that includes growing up in New York and Brazil, it includes going to Juilliard, it includes Firefly working with Joss Whedon way back when her Deadpool movies, her thoughts on her character's fate in the second Deadpool movie. Lots of cool stories from Morena in this. She is part of another couple that's been on the podcast now. We haven't had too many couples on the podcast, but Ben McKenzie, of course, is her partner in real life, was also her acting partner on Gotham. He was on the pot a few years ago.

I also loved talking to Ben, and it was a real treat to get to know Morena in this context today. I know you guys are going to dig the chat. A lot of other stuff going on in the happy, sad, confused Josh Hardowitz universe. First up, I will mention our live event, which is coming very, very soon, March 1st at the 92nd Street Y. a live happy sad confused with Mr. Sam Hewin. The good news is there are virtual tickets still on sale through the 90 Second Streetwise website. I'll also put the link in the show description. The bad news, but maybe good news is there are still a few seats left in person, but not many.

I'm 99% sure the show will sell out. There's really very few seats left, but get on it right now. If you have the chance, if you're going to be in New York, if you're able to come to New York, York. Come on by. Enjoy the beauty and majesty that is Mr. Sam Hewin. It's going to be a great fun time. We've done live events before. I'm so thrilled that this one came together. March 1st is the date. Again, all the information is in the show notes part of this podcast. But there's a lot of other stuff going on. First, I'll say we're working on some other live events. We're hopefully going to confirm some more in the not so distant future. Stay tuned for that. Lots of stuff is going on

on the Patreon page, patreon.com slash happy, sad, confused video versions of this podcast, whenever possible, including today's chat with Morena, Sam Hew and stuff, game nights. By the time you listen to this, a new episode of Game Night is up with Jody Comer and Sandra O from Killing Eve. I'm so excited about this one. I love killing Eve. I love, love, love Jody Comer. She's been on the pod before. I just, she's the best. And Sandra O is all. Awesome. I've never really had that chance to chat with her. But we had a great episode of Game Night, played a bunch of silly games, some improv games. If you all have interest in my shenanigans or those two actresses, I encourage you to check out the Patreon. Patreon.com slash happy, sad, confused. I think this is our 15th episode of Game Night with just some of the best, coolest movie stars, TV stars on the planet, playing silly games with yours truly. Check it out if you are so inclined. Lots of good stuff over there. In terms of the other stuff in the Josh Harowitz universe, that's free, totally free.

You don't have to drop a dime. New MTV News interview with Mark Wahlberg and Tom Holland. That's up. A new Comedy Central episode with those same guys is up. Just look at my Twitter feed, my Instagram feed. You'll see the links to those or go to their respective YouTube pages for Comedy Central or MTV News. I can say, because we have taped it, new MTV conversation I had with Robert Pattinson and Zoe Kravitz for The Batman.

So excited about that. This was my first conversation with Rob in many years. But if you followed my work, you know that I back in the day spent a lot of time with Robert Pattinson. Those twilight days are forever seared in my brain, nothing like them. So it was a real, real treat to catch up with him in this context. He's the Batman, and he's awesome in the film, as is Zoe, who has, of course, also been on the podcast before. So look forward to that.

That will drop, I believe, right around the opening date that Batman is in theaters, which is coming up very, very soon on March 4th. Hopefully working on some other Batman-related stuff. Stay tuned on that. There's a lot to talk about with respect to that film. I think that is about all I'm going to tease today. That was a long list, though. A lot of cool stuff going on. Let's get to the main event.

All right. As always, remember to rate review, subscribe to Happy Say Confused. Spread the good word. Those reviews do matter. But in the meantime, let's enjoy my chat with the star of the new NBC series, The End Game. Here's me. I'm Morena Baccarin. Marina Baccarin has entered the Happy Sad Confused Podcast Chamber. I say chamber because as I look at you, you're in an idyllic setting. For those that are only listening, for those that are only listening, she's got a chair that I'm really envious of. You're comfy, you're cozy. I'm comfy and cozy. I can't promise I won't be interrupted a hundred times by various children, but we'll see what we can do. Hey, it's a big day.

Not only is it, as we tape this, a happy endgame premiere day. Thank you. I mean, that sounds menacing. I don't mean it to sound menacing, but you know. It sounds like very post-apocalyptic somehow. But yeah, I would imagine having some young kids at home and having the New York ambiance grounds you, whether you want to be grounded or not, even on a big day in your career.

Keeps it real. Keeps it real. No, I'm thrilled that you're making the time for this today. I'm always a fan of your work. You have now joined an esteemed group of husband and wife couples on the podcast over the years. Oh, yeah. Ben was on a few years ago. That's a good dude you got over there.

Keep him around. Thank you. I agree. But yes, Jesse Plymins, Kirsten Dunst, Alicia Vakander, Michael Fastbender, Melissa McCarthy, and Ben Falcone, who I'm sure you know. So which of those would you like to double date with, if given the opportunity? All of them, really. There's so many questions we had. But you did, I mean, you obviously have spent time with Melissa and Ben, presumably, on spy. Yeah, but I was, my first kid was six months old,ish, around the time.

I was really delirious. It was one of the first time going back to work and the first time having a kid and going back to work. I think I spent two days on that movie. It was really fast. Oh, wow. And my time socializing with her was just on set. I didn't, I got to, I want to say I met him,

but I can't even remember in my mom fog, if I think I met him because he's an actor. You know what I mean? Yeah, no, I hear you. We're like, I'll go up to somebody and be like, oh my God, how are you? And they're like, I've never met you. Oh, please, my defaults, I'm sure you relate to this, is the good to see you thing.

Like, you never know, like to say. You never know. Yeah, yeah. And I, and I'm sure, I think you were in probably one of those mom fogs, one of the few times we've ever met, which is I did an Apple store Q&A for the first Deadpool movie. And I'm, as I recall, you were, you were, you were ready to pop. You were pretty close to. Yes, that was my second. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah, that was princess. I was ready to pop. And you're right. I have no recollection of that. I don't blame. The only thing I remember about that was your co-star. Oh, I know exactly.

I know exactly what you're talking about. Yes, yes, yes. Oh, okay. At the Apple store. It was at the Apple store downtown. Yes, I remember. Ed Skrine corrected my pronunciation of his last name in front of the audience. I felt really good about that, good about myself.

But yeah, happy memories all around. I always like talking to New Yorkers. I'm a born-and-bred New Yorker. I know you spent a lot of your childhood in the city. Have you, like in your adult life, have you pretty much been here? I mean, I'm sure for work, you've obviously traveled around, but have you always made it a point to, if at all possible, make your home here? Yeah, I mean, this has always been home and felt like home.

So I lived in L.A. from 2001 to Ben and I actually have the same trajectory, even though we didn't know each other then, but from 2001 to 2015, 14, 15. Okay. That's when I came back to New York. So I was in LA for that big chunk of like adulthood and beginning of my career and becoming a real person. And then I moved back here. I already had my son who was one. So, you know, I share my adult adulthood with LA.

Right, right, right. How are you with the? Yeah, I mean, of course. And I know, I mean, I was raised here in the city. I'm semi normal, semi well adjusted. You seem like a semi well adjusted person. I mean, raising kids in the city important to you, feels like it's. like right big time i i i didn't like having a baby in l.a um i felt really isolated i felt

really um like i had to generate distraction for myself like i would spend days at home with my kid because it's comfortable and like why would i strap a kid into a car seat just for entertainment you know but then when i got to new york i realized like oh my god if you can pop them in a stroller and walk take a walk around the block and there's a fire truck and there's a construction site and and there are people you say hello to and there's a coffee shop you go in and get something and i think my kids um they i notice a difference and i don't mean this i don't mean to sound like a jerk saying this but i do notice a difference from kids who don't live in new york like when my kids get together with their kids and there are conversations that happen they're just different

they're exposed to different things and not necessarily better like sometimes my kids will say stuff and i'm like you are a jerk um but it's really interesting interesting, just how much they take in in the city? A thousand percent. I mean, yeah, I'm relatively and was a relatively shy kid. And I think New York was great for me in that, like, you just have to collide with humanity. You can't hide from it. And it's much easier to hide in L.A.

Or a lot of places in New York, you know, I was a public school kid. And I was like one of like two white kids in my school. It was like the best thing for me to like not like see. Where did you go to school? So I went, we probably share some neighborhood. So I grew up on the Upper West Side, and I went to PS-87, IS44, I went to Stuyvesant, and then Dalton. That's my trajectory. We have completely different trajectories.

Okay, tell me. What's yours? I went to PS-41 in the Westfield College, and then I went to the lab school, which at the time was in the Upper East Side. And then I went to LaGuardia High School. Okay. So then we intersected a little bit there. At least you're back in my neighborhood. There you go.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So you were, it sounds like, I mean, I know you. split some time in your childhood. I mean, tell me, so how, when were you like falling through like, like, 9% here? Or were you bouncing back and forth? So I, I moved from Brazil the first time. So, so, you know, Brazil's economy is a disaster, especially in the late 80s when we were thinking about moving.

It was still coming out of a dictatorship and, you know, the inflation was through the roof. Who'd go to the grocery store and one day cereal would be $4. the next it would be like 12, like literally from one day to the next. My dad worked for a really big news corp called Globo at the time, and he got an offer to transfer to the New York office. So we immediately jumped on it. My mom was an actress in Brazil, and it was doing quite well, but not obviously well enough to support us.

And we moved to, my brother was four or five, and I was like around seven, and we moved to Forest Hills, Queens. and my mom got there and my dad found this like great beautiful sort of building in suburbia essentially right and especially in the early 90s like Forest Hills was like deep queens and she looked around and she was like

this is not New York you promised me New York we lived there for one year my mom was depressed my brother and I hated school because we didn't speak any English we moved back to Brazil and for two years we lived apart from my dad my mom was like when you find me a place in New York City you give me a call you sort your shit out man okay I don't have time for this

I have certain needs found a one bedroom apartment which is what he could afford at the time in the West Village on 12th and 6th and we moved again when I was 10 for good for real and my brother and I shared a bedroom my parents built a loft bed for themselves in the living room oh my God and that's how I grew up for the majority of my childhood. Eventually, we moved to a two-bedroom in the same building. My mom still lived there today. Love it. How are you- In your apartment story where you don't ever let go of your apartment if you have one. My child at home is still, my mom's still there. No worries.

So were you, so how were you treated when you were a kid here and were you treated as an exotic unicorn? Yeah. Yeah. Pretty much. Yeah. I remember seeing a squirrel for the first time. What is that? With rats in New York, you know, like they're everywhere. And I was like, Shkilu, which is squirrel in Portuguese, and everybody was like, what is wrong with this chick? I, you know, you assimilate so fast when you're a kid. So by the time I was, I entered fifth grade, I think, when I first moved. And by the time I got into sixth grade, I essentially had like no accent.

I completely like learned language and was just trying to erase every part of being Brazilian that I possibly could. so I could just fit in with everybody else, you know? Got it. And did you come around? I would just expect in your lifetime you probably then kind of reassess and access that part of you and then say like, oh, wait, I'm proud of that part of my, my heritage at a certain point. Yeah, it took time though. I mean, I would say that didn't start happening until my late 20s. Oh, wow. Yeah, it took some time. I really, but I also really, just who I am as a person, I gravitate more towards the American lifestyle then i do the brazilian like i like order i like things to function i like going to the dmv

and knowing that yeah it's annoying and it may suck to stand in line but like you will get you right done that you went there to get done in brazil it's like maybe somebody was on a lunch break for three hours and you know maybe they'll come back tomorrow you know that that speaks volumes when you're holding up the like new york state dmv as the paradigm of order because that's not you know where i'm coming from yeah But I do very much feel very proud to be Brazilian and, you know, I do notice that there is a part of me that doesn't fully feel American and that even if I've assimilated completely, I really embrace the certain amount of chaos that's in my family life and in my emotional life that, like, I think a lot of people are like stressed by. I'm like, I kind of thrive in that environment. Did mom ever pursue acting when she was here and were you ever exposed to, like, were you ever on sets back home in Brazil or here in the States? Yeah, I was, I, in Brazil, it was mostly theater that I was exposed to with her and a lot of theater parties that I probably shouldn't have been at when I was nine or eight years old.

And then here, she was a stay-at-home mom for a long time and then was going nuts. And she was, she formed the first Brazilian theater company of New York. Exactly. And it was putting on a production of some Brazilian plays with American actors that she was directing at this. small space called the Here Theater, which is on like 6th Avenue and canal area. It's a really great still running sort of indie theater space in New York City off, off Broadway. And the play next door to hers was constantly selling out and driving a lot of traffic to her play. And she was like, I need to go see this play.

It was called the Vigina Monologues. She saw it. She thought it was brilliant. She bought the rights to it and took it to Brazil. And it ran in Brazil for 10 years. it was like a huge massive hit. So she sort of, though she didn't do it here, she, you know, bridge the gap between the two places

and was able to still work while. At this point, we were in college and high school and it was easier for her to leave for a while. Yeah, when that production first hit, I mean, that was, it was a big deal of the time, absolutely. So she must have and continue to live, vicariously is the wrong word, but have a real satisfaction to see where your career has gone.

I mean, because, I mean, looking at, I mean, you went to Juilliard, and I talked to many, many people that have gone to Juilliard, and that's no joke. That is, that is like, that's where that's for the, that's someone that is very focused and directed and is ready to embrace, hopefully, a rigorous kind of education. I guess was that before Juilliard, did you know, like in the years prior, you were like, that's where you were headed. You were like, I'm going to make a go of this, or how did you end up there? Yeah, I'm going to LaGuardia High School. I honestly went there because the education was so

grade and we couldn't afford private school and it was one of the highest rated academic schools. I thought, I didn't know what I was going to do, but it never occurred to me that I was an actor. I was very shy and I really did not like the spotlight. And my mom was always like bigger than life and she sucked all the energy in the room and it left nothing for anybody else. So I didn't think I would do that for living. And I got in, I got in for visual arts as well, but I was like i don't really have like a dedication to art you know to drawing and then i was like well at least with drama i can maybe get over some of my social anxiety and fears of speaking in public and and i'll learn a lot about literature and it'll be fun and and it was like day one i got pulled

into this incoming sophomore class instead of a freshman class this really eccentric russian teacher who i don't think is there anymore um marat you seen was his name was like yule you're going to graduate early and i was like i don't want to graduate early he's like you will and he sort of took me under his wing and pushed me really really hard and the minute i did my first like i don't know i was like i was like 13 doing like macbeth or something and i was like this is really addictive and i got this like rush and i realized like there's nothing else that there's i'm a fool if i think i'm going to be doing anything else for a living and from that point on i was just like on a direct course. I was like, it's going to be Juilliard or nothing. Like I was just like,

you know, laser focused graduated high school in three years by catching up academically. Like I wasn't super smart. I just went to summer school every year to get all the credits that I needed to get and like got into Juilliard. I was 17 years old. I mean, when I think about it now, it's so insane. That's huge. That's crazy. And then when you get there, I mean, again, I've talked to a bunch of people most recently, I think Corey Hawkins, who's probably, you know, you and I are around the same age. He's probably a bit younger than us, but like, and then I think of people like Oscar Isaac and Chastain, they're probably a bit older than us. Who was like in your class? Did you acclimate immediately? It was hard. It was really hard for me because I, you know,

I grew up in New York City. I had a bit of a toad for sure. I bet you know my classmates were coming from like Iowa and Texas and you know. You're on my home turf. I know how it works around here exactly and they were like let's get 40s and sit in the park and I was like I did that in high school right jazz club you know yeah yeah this girl she's annoying and also similarly with my teachers I felt like I just had a good bullshit meter I always have and I I was like I'm paying you so why are you criticizing me and why are you taking away from me the thing that makes me me yeah and I felt like it took me so long after I graduated it was a little bit of a head mind fuck that I was like how do I get that

back like it it really because they break you down a bit they break you down a bit yeah they break you down and it's changed a lot since I went there but it was really about like being a neutral vessel so you can embody anything which in theory I do understand but that's not the business we're launched into right you know I was auditioning for Hispanic girl number two on law and order and not getting it because I had perfect diction, you know? Right. I wasn't called in for merchant of Venice. Right. In terms of practical, in the practical world, in the real world, is Juilliard necessarily the right preparation? Maybe more down the line, you call upon those tools. But yeah, you're talking like nuts and

bolts. Like, I need to make a living. I want the. Yeah, and I did know how. I did know how to do it. I mean, I had a sense of what's commercial. I was able to get an agent out of the of the school. And I think ultimately, I am really glad I went. It taught me a sense of discipline and work ethic that I don't think I could have learned anywhere else. And I'm already very kind of a type, as we've discussed with my orderly orderliness. But I think that school taught me how to really push myself. I think it pretty early on, I believe in the career, you were what I remember was like a notoriously, like an amazing production of, I think it was the Seagull, right? Yes.

That had like, it was like the craziest cat. I vividly remember this. It was, for those that don't know, it was Christopher Walken, Kevin Klein, Philip Seymour Hoffman, John Goodman, Mike Nichols directed it. Correct me if I'm wrong. You were understudy. Merrill Street. Sorry. Yeah, we're leaving that one out.

Yeah. You were understudying for Natalie Portman. Yeah. So I'm just fascinated by that because, like, again, you're pretty early in your career. You may be like, you know, have a lot of confidence, but you are now like with the big boys, like at the height of all of their powers. Just like, I want a sense of what that was like. How did it feel?

It was insane. I, you know, I'm coming out of school thinking I would have this incredible theater career. I can't get arrested. So I get this, you know, opportunity to understudy Natalie Fortman, who we all now have established that at the time I have major two. and I think I'm better than Natalie Portman, which is insane because she's an incredible actor. But I'm, you know, the 19-year-old me

that's just graduated school is like, well, I've trained in Shakespeare. Right, the Star Wars chick is stealing my game. Exactly. And rehearsals every single day was, like, better than any class I had in Juilliard ever because I'm watching Christopher Walken and his way of rehearsing, which was staring at anybody who,

who was watching him and delivering whatever lines straight into your eyes, like completely breaking the fourth wall the whole time. It was so funny. And Meryl Streep like came in with a full and complete performance in every single rehearsal and every choice you made was completely different every day, but completely committed.

And so you were always just like completely fascinated. And Kevin Klein was just like steady and like doing his thing from day one, you know, like just off book and perfect. Anyway, it was, it was, It was incredible. I remember Natalie Portman ended up having to go to L.A. during one of the dress rehearsals.

And she wasn't there and they told me I was going to go on. And they were rehearsing the second act. So there wasn't much of an audience. It was like some people that they were letting in to watch a dress rehearsal. And the second act in the Seagull, I don't know if you know the play well, but like is the most emotionally challenging for the character of Nina. It's where she's been, she's gone, excuse me, she's gone away. She's been completely destroyed by the Chagoran character who's played by Kevin Klein.

And, you know, she has betrayed the character that Phillips and Moore Hoffman played, you know, because he was so in love with her and he's considering suicide. I think he killed himself right after this particular scene we were about to rehearse. Um, I get on stage and like literally just shaking. Um, I have, I share this weird kiss with Kevin Klein, which just felt very bizarre. And then I come on and I have a scene with this like 25-minute scene with Phillips and War Hoffman. And I sit on the couch and I'm trying to hit all the beats that Natalie was hitting in

rehearsal so he wouldn't throw him off. And I was completely out of my body and out of my mind. And I'm jumping his lines and I'm sort of all over the place. And he just looks me in the eyes and he goes, shh. And he takes a really long beat. And then a really big breath. And then he lets it out. And like I just drop into my body and I'm like, this is the biggest lesson you could

ever learn as an actor. Just listen. Just listen to your fellow scene partner. You'll know where you are and what you're doing. And I carry that with me every single day. It was incredible. Yeah. It's just a different version of that like just be in the moment, right?

Just like cut out all the noise, whatever you have to do to get to that place. It's just about human beings interaction. at the end of the day and just it's kind of that simple but that's easier said than done to get to that point um that's amazing kevin klein long time i mean he did the podcast like six or seven years ago and it was like just major man crush i grew up just idolizing that man and just to hear that is awesome the best so i mean again looking so looking at the trajectory then i mean i guess the the big the big early thing afterwards is um is firefly like that's the first kind of like big thing right uh you pop up in some movies, TV, a lot of TV episodic stuff.

Did Firefly at the time feel, was it just another audition? Did it feel like, I mean, it was Josh Whedon who had some cred back in, back in that time, especially. What do you recall about getting the gig? Was it a big moment for you when you knew you got it, et cetera? I mean, I was flat broke. I was staying a friend's couch with my boyfriend. We were both crashing at this guy's place.

All of us broke. I had just done a play at the Guthrie Theater. And again, I was a fantastic. test are coming into L.A. going, I don't want to be here. I'd made like a deal with my agent where I was like, fine. I'll go to the tail end of pilot season. If you let me do this play at the Guthrie. I did blood, blood wedding, Lorca play. And so I don't know how to drive. My boyfriend is driving me to auditions. And I get called in for Firefly. And I'm like, do I really have to go to audition for a space whore and my agent's like this is joss whedon you have no idea what

you're talking about and i was like okay whatever i audition it's for the casting director she calls him down from the off from his office he i read with him he asks me to do it in five different actions and stuff and i do them just for fun and we're just we have a great rapport we're laughing we're having a great time and then they say i'm going to test for it and And I was like, oh, that's cool. I mean, clueless, completely, which I think was honestly helpful. Right. Because I might have, like, crap my pants.

I don't know. So I'd get to the audition. I get the part. I, it was like coming for Joss, coming the next day for the studio, the next day for the network, get the role, start working the day after. It was so fast. Oh, wow. And then I find out that as I'm having lunch with my boyfriend and his manager or somebody at the time,

They're like, oh, I just sent flowers to Rebecca Gayhar, who's also this person's client. She's on this new Josh Whedon show called Firefly. And I was like, I think I just got that job. It was so awkward. And I realized, like, this chick was about to be fired and I had gotten the job instead. And like, I don't know why things like this happen in this industry. but this is that's by the way not the first time that I've replaced somebody on a major show it's a horrible feeling but by the way I've been fired too from shows like it just happens in

this industry all the time and that's how I got my first my first gig and I know you've spoken about and all the actors on that show have talked about the camaraderie and how special it was especially in retrospect after you go on in a career and realize how special that kind of group is at the time I'm not going to like go into the whole Joss stuff. It's a complicated thing about him. But I am curious, like, does what he's had to reckon with color your own experiences? Like, do you look back on it now any differently, given that like he's become a bit of a problematic figure for many in the industry? Yeah, he has, I guess.

I have such a different experience only because, first of all, it was 2001. I mean, it was so long ago. Yeah. I was super young, but I think we've established on this podcast. My attitude precedes me. So I don't think I'm somebody who, I don't know how to put this, but like, I don't think it's easy for people to, I don't know what the word. No, I get it.

You make it, it's hard to push you around. It's hard to push me around. I mean, look, I've certainly been in uncomfortable situations with other people, and I, you know, I have felt vulnerable for sure. And I'm not at all, this is coming across wrong. Like, I'm not at all saying it's anybody's fault at all. Of course.

It was not my experience, personally. And it was also very brief. We worked together for, you know, whatever 13 episodes takes, which I think is like six months or something. And then we shot the film for another two months a year later. We were friends and I would go to his house for these Shakespeare readings. I knew his wife, his ex-wife now.

And it was just like Firefly, you know, I feel like was such a special moment in his life. He was really grateful for that experience. And he was, it felt like he was making the show that he really wanted to make. And I think, you know, being that he replaced the actor playing, and was playing my role, he was really curating it for, um you know the people that he wanted to surround himself with and i feel like um everybody on

that show just had a great great time um and it's unfortunate that it's all become so complicated you know he's a complicated person for sure well and it's look we all know like humans are complex you can be an asshole in in one context of your life or one era of your life and also be a good person to other people at other times and it's like that's just the truth of life like we're not there's no verdict one verdict yeah yeah no I hear you a thousand percent um you talked about the experience of auditioning and not really knowing even what you were getting into there generally speaking are you a good good auditioner do you see it as something an opportunity do you see it as something you dread over the years have you kind of changed your attitude

about them or give me a sense it changes it really does very it has so much to do with where you're at in your life i feel like i went through a really dry spell um after, certainly after Firefly, right before I got V. I think I didn't work for, I mean like when I say didn't work, I mean did not sit foot on a set for me 10 to 12 months and I was auditioning nonstop. I tested one year like 10 times for different pilots, one final season and didn't get a single job.

And I was really like going, okay, well, maybe this isn't for me. I don't know, I'm obviously doing something, wrong and people don't see me this way and whatever. And then I realized like, you know, I kind of don't care and I'm going to use auditions as an opportunity to play a part, which is what I love doing for fun. And that's literally when it all changed. But I will say that like during the pandemic, there have been auditions here and there and I've had to put myself on tape because now everything is virtual. And I really don't enjoy that process. That one, that aspect in particular on like the Zoom audition or like the putting yourself on an iPhone or just.

on tape I feel like it's like completely impersonal like you're performing for somebody that you don't even know who your audience is or what you're putting out there you have no dialogue typically have no dialogue even with the casting director or the director about the choices you're making and it feels like you have to kind of guess at what they want which is never a good position to be in you should always just have a strong take and you know connect with the character but we don't do these things in isolation and reality. It's like it's a collaborative art form. If you're feeding off the director of the cinematographer, your fellow actors, and it's like,

why is this aspect of the process like me literally alone staring into, like it's not mimicking what you're actually going to do. It's not conducive to good work. Right. You have to kind of imagine the whole movie or show when you haven't even met a single person on it or, you know, it's really, it's no fun. I mean, I've had auditions where I connect so much with the character that it's a no-brainer and those are usually the ones you get. Those are the ones that you feel like, oh yeah, like I get this. But then most of the time you're just guessing. Yeah. So before you get to your part in a ginormous superhero franchise,

speaking of auditions, there was a talk that you were up for, speaking of Joss Whedon, Maria Hill in Avengers. Yeah. Is that one that you felt you were connecting with, that you were like, oh, I legitimately have a shot at this? No. I didn't get it at all. I didn't get it all. I mean, I loved that he brought me in for it. he kept telling me she was like um seguini weaver in alien you know that she had this kind of hard edge to her i was like i i don't understand like i i couldn't see it on the page i couldn't do it i tested i was there with kobe like we tested against each other and i was like she's

going to get this part like i can see it right i could not he wanted me to be emotional but hold it all in and be hard and i was like i don't know what i don't know what you what you're asking me to do. I can't do it. So that's a case where you can reconcile. It's not like, oh, this is my part. It's like, no, the actress that was right for got it. Correct. So that must help you sleep at night. And then what almost also help you sleep at night is then Deadpool comes around, which is this amazing gift for everybody involved in this. We used the term unicorn earlier, certainly stood out from the pack of superhero movies. And thanks to Ryan and Tim at the time of the initial director.

Yeah. Did that feel like, I mean, the sense watching it and the feel of it is like it felt like a ginormous indie movie. Like it had an indie sensibility in superhero, in the superhero genre. Did it feel like different than the more slick kind of productions you've been a part of? Or what? Sure. It felt like we were doing, it felt very much like an indie movie.

That's very accurate. I read the script and I was like, this is so fucking funny. Like how I don't understand. How are people not dying to do this movie? Maybe they were. I don't know. I was, you know, I was, I was, I auditioned for the casting director first, then got a call back for the director, and then met with Ryan. There were several steps along the way. And every time, I just kept having a total blast doing it. And then even when we were shooting it, I was like, am I crazy? Like, I'm looking around. And I'm like, I've never laughed as hard on set. And the stuff these guys are doing seems completely bananas. You know, as far as the stunts and the visual effects that Tim would show me, like, on the weekends, I'd be looking at his computer and he's like, look at how we're going to shoot it. And I'd be like, you know, and then, of course, it was a huge fit. And I was like, oh, okay. I was on to something. But it did surprise me because I, you know, it's totally my, it's my sense of humor, 100%. This on the second go around, you have a different director. And there's, you know, as you well know, there's some, if there was major criticism, it was about the treatment of your treatment of your. character in the in the film were you did you have to share the same concern or did that catch

you off guard i mean i was bummed you know and i read the script when ryan sent it to me he was very tight-lipped about it which worried me and then when he sent it to me he's like look read past page five please right you know once you check out there's more to happen but yes yeah yeah and he's like i know it's not a lot but it is the core emotional arc of this character in the movie and he's like and and i and i and That was what him and Tim, I think, had ultimately had a falling out over was Tim felt very strongly that they should not kill me and not use me that way.

Oh, wow. And Ryan felt like this was the only way to give Deadpool a huge, huge motivating thing in the film, you know? And they worked. I mean, I hate to say it. I watched the movie and I completely get it. I completely get why they did what they did, you know. Fun fact, we actually shot all of our scenes,

underwater in a giant tank because they had this idea him and David had this idea to do this ethereal like hair floating clothes floating but we're doing our dialogue it's not supposed to be underwater just supposed to look weird and it just didn't fight work at all so we had to reshoot the whole thing but I was nothing more arduous than shooting underwater I mean that's like the nightmare scenario for an actor or anybody I would imagine nightmare and I am not a scuba diver not comfortable in that environment. It was a nightmare. And I was just, I was like, can you cut the footage together just for me?

I need proof. So was there ever, did you ever get an alternate script before that, that ultimate one? Because there was talk about where your character was going to go based on the comics in different ways we would see Vanessa, copycat, et cetera. Did it ever go anywhere in like tangible form? I never, I never saw anything. I think that there were several versions of it floating around, but then I, they never shared it with me. Got it. I can't believe the time is running by so quickly. I do want to make

sure we talk, of course, about the new show and your comfort movie. So let's talk about the end game because that's what has brought us together today. Congratulations. This is the new series on NBC. Presumably you're shooting in New York. That's always good. That's an important factor. So talk to me, like, were you actively looking for a series for something to suit your lifestyle and also obviously to fulfill you creatively? Like, how did this one come about and what boxes does it check? Yeah, this was, I mean, it was tough. It was a tough decision to make in the sense that I was not really fully ready to go back to work. Arthur, our third kid was three months old when I got the script. I was still in that postpartum complete Bonanaville phase, not getting any sleep. And, you know, and it was, and I was overwhelmed by the idea of having three kids and being a working mom again, though I knew I wanted to go back to work. And then the script came along and I also had told myself I would know. never ever again do a network show um i just find them to be creatively frustrating you don't have the liberty that you do when you do cable or streaming and or movies and i was

pretty but ben and i pretty done with that um not to mention the workload i mean this was a big part of my conversation with ben when he was on about gotham it was like network shows they're no joke it's not the eight episode it's the it's the old model and it's still it's It's a lot of work. It's a lot of work and being the lead and all that. But then when I started to break it down, you know, and I realized this is really a two-hander, so I would have some days off. It shot in New York, which is a gift from God.

Not a lot to see her to begin with. And the script was really compelling. It was, you know, candy. It was like I couldn't put it down. It's total page turner. And this character is Bonanaville. She's like, you know, I get to do it out. And I get to like have the best time, you know, and not work every single day.

And I was like, I don't know, this is kind of a no-brainer. And the creative team involved, you know, Justin Lind directed the pilot and he's, you know, the pilot is like, if you take a deep breath, good luck, you know, it's really fast-paced. And it's, you, you alludes to the character. I was watching the pilot last night. You always want to be as an actor. I mean, this is kind of a dream where like, you're the character everybody is talking about and kind of like, you're the center. And yet, like, even just in that pilot, like you don't have to you don't have to do much you just have to kind of hold the screen yeah kind of had this amazing outfit have everyone kind of obsessed around you and like like who the

fuck is this this is like hannibal lector like what is this woman all about totally is she gonna eat me or kiss me exactly exactly so um well i'm glad you found the right fit and yeah i'm the pilot like justin clearly knows what he's doing and set the set the bar high for like slick cool you know like cinematic uh filmmaking so that I'm glad it worked out for you in that way. I asked for a comfort movie. I always asked books for a comfort movie because I think it's very telling and fun

to hear what people really connected with often as kids. And I presume you saw this one maybe as a kid. Tell the audience what you chose and why. At just the labyrinth. Yes, I think I've seen this movie probably 200 times, I would say. At one point as a kid, my dad, during that period that I said that he lived in the States

and we lived in Brazil, he would have, he had HBO or, something and he would like take like he would record the movies when they were on and we would get these video cassette tapes that he would bring to Brazil when he came to visit us and it was in all in English and that's I think how I learned the majority of English was watching the labyrinth and everything story but I'll stick with the labyrinth um yeah and I fell in love with David Bowie he's my all-time favorite artist still and Jennifer Connolly I wanted to be her um and it was I just it's so cruel and magical and

and bizarre. And even as a kid, I knew that those effects were so stupid and fake, but also incredible and the mastery of like the puppets and the, you know,

it's just so mad. It's such a magical movie. No, I think you hit upon it. I mean, I feel the same way. It's, I know,

back, you know, not to sound like an old man screaming from my porch, but back in the day, like those kind of like fantasy films were, they were darker.

They were, they were weirder. Yes. Those are like fucked up weird movies for kids to watch and they kind of haunt you. In the best way. And you don't know,

there's this weird like, sexual tension with Jennifer Connolly and David Bowie, who's like, at that point, twice her age, I think. But like also really hot, but really like Metro, but really like those tights, those white tights. The nightmares about those tights. I was going to say, they will haunt your dreams. Yes. For those that don't know, the movie came out in 1986. It's directed by Jim Henson. It was the last film Jim Henson ever directed. Of course, David Bowie, the icon. I mean, the irony is probably, I think I probably saw him in this before I even knew he was like, a musical superstar right of course Jennifer Connolly uh was probably like 15 or 16 when she made

it and um yeah it wasn't a hit at the time but like it is one of those movies oh yeah yeah made like $13 million at the box office was considered a disappointment but um yeah it's funny because like those kind of movies that you alluded to like that the puppetry and stuff it's kind of wonky it's like what am i even looking at but somehow it makes it more timeless right it's like absolutely there's certain kinds of CGI effects and certain kinds of movies don't hold up, but like the tangible stuff weirdly is like of the specificity of it just never. I mean, the combination of the weird ass, like the weird puppets with their heads come off and then the little worm that looks like a finger and then the tunnel that is hands that holds her when she's and they create all these different

shapes with their hands. And then the music. David Bowie. music like oh my god it's so good have you shut the kids are probably too young for for this one i haven't yeah i have i really want to i mean unfortunately you know the minute they see something is an old movie now they're like oh that doesn't look so good we don't want to watch that i want to mention a movie that also in recent years like i don't think this is like a backhanded compliment but i was i was friendly surprised how much i loved greenland greenland was like a really a really solid movie i had uh scott glen on actually talking about it that was a privilege. I'm like, oh, yeah, that guy is a badass. You guys are doing a sequel to it,

as I understand it. Yeah, we are. I don't know exactly when. They're still working on the script, but I'm excited about it. It was a really, really great experience. And what a cool, like, you know, apocalypse movie where, like, you actually have a genuine emotional journey to go through, you know, that was the best part, I think. Yeah, no, a thousand percent for, like, from the outside looking at it was like, okay, I've seen a lot of apocalyptic movies and this could fall into one category, but it's a really solid piece of work, and I'm glad you guys are going to need to continue it. And yeah, I mean, we mentioned Deadpool earlier. It's kind of weird in these times where it's like a movie that made like almost a billion dollars has not had

a sequel cranked out like within 18 months. I presumably part of it is the Fox Disney of it all. I think the merger, yeah. I'm not sure what, how that will affect us, to be honest. I'm not sure. Yeah. So do you try to keep tabs or do you just kind of like, what's your attitude? do you kind of like hang back and wait for the call or do you have to hang back like it makes me crazy i can't i mean it drives me not that i have no concept that i have no control over my fate in that franchise that like it's literally completely up to what ryan feels like doing or what the studio decides uh you know if they want to see me again or not and you know i feel like it's i've been blessed to be able to do two of them i had the best time i will always make myself

available to have that much fun again you know and i just have to keep it keep it like that you know it's it's it'll drive you insane yeah yeah it would drive your nuts no i guess i got you totally um when you when folks see you and ben out in in the wild is it like watching like not only one unicorn but two unicorns hanging out together do they like is it like is it like oh my god you know firefly and the OC like my brain's exploded like what you know it's funny we tend to have these like one of us will get recognized at a time like it's rare that it's both of us Right. Sometimes, but it's really weird. And it also depends on like what's happening in our lives. Like right now with endgame, like everybody's like, hey, I love doing homely and love doing this, whatever. And he's just in there like, yeah, isn't she great? He's taking the photo. They're like, yeah, whatever. They're like, can you take this photo for us? You know? He's like, sure.

Do you guys talk more acting or politics at home? I appreciate you both are obviously very civic minded, politically active. Ben seems like to be losing his mind. about crypto and NFTs. I don't get it. Oh my God, don't get started on that. I'm like, if he opens his mouth to talk about that one more time, I kind of glaze over it now because he's completely, he's gone down the rabbit hole in such a way. He's writing a book about it now.

Is he really? Oh, my God. He has a book deal. He's writing a book. I'm in Jacob Silverman, his partner that he's writing with. And they are traveling the world, interviewing people. And I'm just like, just please don't get killed. Don't because I feel like some of the stuff is like mafia.

I don't know. I don't know anything about it, but it's all scares me. I'm like, just come home at the end of the day. So, yeah, our conversations are either about the kids. Right. Or about crypto, which I blaze over. And I'm just trying to be supportive. And I'm going to like, oh, my God. What am I going to cook for?

I'm listening. I'm listening. Or, you know, I don't know, whatever topic, immigration, whatever is happening in the world. We do try to keep it out of our living room, out of our lives because the world is a scary place. It's on fire. Let's not end there. What's on a happy note? Endgame.

It's weird to say, end game is the happy note, but it is. It's a happy note. It's a great new series on NBC. Everybody should check it out. I'm glad it's given us an opportunity to catch up when hopefully the mom brain, the about to the pop brain hasn't influenced your brain. You seem sharper than ever today. today. So congratulations. You're meeting. It happened to be a really

good day. Oh, good. I got you. I got you at the right time. You never know what's going to happen. No, no, no. Congrats on the show. Give my best to Ben and don't let him talk your ear off on crypto too much. Thanks, that's right. I'll send him your way when he starts talking. Oh, no. No, never mind. No. That's on you. That's the marriage certificate's all about. Thanks again, Marina. Thank you so much.

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