Happy Sad Confused - Natalie Portman

Episode Date: December 28, 2016

Natalie Portman is known for many things but being a great impressionist is not one of them (she’s not shy about admitting this). All of which makes her transformation into Jackie Kennedy in the new film, “Jackie”, that much more impressive. It might be time to stop placing any expectations on the 35 year-old, unless you’re expecting her to land another Oscar nomination for this performance, because that’s basically a done deal. Far from a conventional cradle to grave biopic, “Jackie” captures the grieving first lady at a pivotal juncture, in the days immediately following her husband’s assassination. On this episode of “Happy Sad Confused”, Portman takes us back to the beginning, how her career bizarrely intersected with Britney Spears’, how she avoided being sexualized on screen at a young age, and finally answers the million dollar question: which “Star Wars” film will she show her children first? Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Terms apply. See Capital One.com slash bank for details. Capital One and A member FDIC. Hey, guys, welcome to happy, sad, confused. This week, we close out the year with an Academy Award-winning actress, poised to earn another nomination and perhaps win Natalie Portman. Plus, I reveal my top 10 movies of the year. That's Sammy. I'm Josh Horowitz.

And no, I've not won an Oscar yet. But that's okay. We welcome Oscar winners here. Yes. And by virtue of proximity, we feel we're all winners. And I think you got another one. I think she's got another one coming, this Natalie. She may.

I mean, we also, you know, we love our Emma Stone here. And she, of course, is going to be nominated for Walla Land. But yes, Natalie is phenomenal in this film. Jackie is the movie. We're going to talk about that in just a second. Go check it out. A really great piece of work from a filmmaker by the name of Pablo Lorraine. And it's really all about Natalie Portman in this film.

She's fantastic. Anyway, because time is short, I want to just rattle. through, not that anyone cares except for you, Sam, because you want to make fun of me. Let's do it. I've been debating here in my top 10 movies of 2016. And I think everyone should know this has been, he was editing this up until mere seconds ago. I literally just changed one. And I still might change.

Okay, so I'm going to like, once you say it, it's done. No, it's not true. These are fluid. As of right now, when I tape this, these are my top 10 of the year. Okay, and a couple caveats. I have no documentaries in here because that's a whole other thing. And frankly, I'm behind on my documentaries. And there's also some stuff about the OJ doc, which would be in my top ten.

OJ Made in America is phenomenal. It's eight hours. It was done for ESPN. And there's a lot of debate of whether it's a film or TV show. It's being positioned as a film and it's going to be nominated as such for the Oscars. I don't know if I agree with that. It would be in there if it was a film for me. Wiener is also an amazing documentary.

There are a lot of good ones out there. But no docs in here. These are all just narratives. You know, here we go. Okay. That was the only caveat? Also, I'll just say I'm way behind on my foreign films, so I don't have foreign films in here.

And I know obviously that that omits like 60% of great filmmaking. These are my top ten. This is an American podcast. American or bust? Okay. So here, top ten, no discernible order except alphabet. Alphabetized? Is that it?

Yeah. Sure. Okay, there we go. Arrival. Send me with a commentary after each one. I'm nodding. I'm nodding. I'm nodding.

not a rival with the great Amy Adams, sci-fi, Denis, Villeneuve, love that filmmaker. Lala Land. No-brainer. Love that movie. Emma Stone, Ryan Gosling. What? You just made a face. We'll get into Lalleland.

Offline. Manchester by the Sea. Classic. It's a great drama from Kenny Lonergan. Yes, it's sad. Got a lot of great humor to it, two, amazing performances from Casey Affleck, Michelle Williams, et cetera. A Monster Calls. I know this isn't going to show up on a ton of top ten lists.

This is one of my favorites of the year. A beautiful film from Juan Antonio Bayona. It made me cry buckets of tears, and you know I have no capacity for human emotion. Go see a monster call. It's amazing. Moonlight. Which we've done a ton of on the podcast here. Again, amazing set of performances.

Fantastic direction by Barry Jenkins. Go seek it out. This one's controversial. I can't wait. the neon demon oh my god neon demon from nicholas winding refin i'm leaving i'm telling you i found it mesmerizing i think it's uh i think it's style with purpose i think it's uh i think he's when he focuses his talents in the right way uh i think nicholas refin is a fantastic filmmaker drive was my favorite movie of that year neon demon makes the list another controversial one you're ready yeah pop star never

stop. Best comedy of the year. Period. Okay. Done. Next one. This is the one I just changed. Oh, I can't wait.

Rogue one. Wow. So here's my quick spiel on this. I had Rogue One or Fantastic Beasts as my kind of Blockbuster slot. And I find them both enormously satisfying in the kind of like Blockbuster mainstream

filmmaking capacity. I think Rogue One worked for me as a more self-contained story, I think Fantastic Beasts opened up this universe and started it off. They both could just as well easily be on the top ten. In the end, I went with Rogue One. Next up, Sing Street. Sing Street. Fantastic film I first saw at Sundance from John Carney, who did once and begin again, another blend of kind of music and drama and comedy. Great movie. Check it out. And finally, Swiss Army Man. You love Dan Red.

I think it might be Dan's, my favorite of dance performances. I think it's a, yes, the shorthanded is the farting corpse movie. But it's so weird that you would love that. So not up here. So not your kind of. No, it's a beautiful piece of work. And yeah, I just loved him and Paul Dano in it and love the Daniels. They are the filmmakers behind it.

Anyway, that's my top 10, Sammy. Okay. Stop judging me. I am. Okay, guys. No, it was pretty good. Thank you. Yeah, it's pretty good.

No animated movies, but it's pretty good. I wasn't now, no. Yeah, okay. All right, anyway, moving on to the main event, Natalie Portman. Now, Jackie wasn't in my top ten, but I absolutely could have just as easily put it in there. Jackie's a great piece of work. It is, of course, to call it a biopic as a little disingenuous, because biopic, you think, like, cradle to grave kind of thing. This is more a slice of life.

This is, like, basically the few days after JFK's assassination and how his wife basically dealt with it and in terms of like cemented his legacy and her legacy. You saw Jackie. Yeah, I saw it. I loved it. Yeah. It's really interesting filmmaking too. Yeah. Yeah. I thought she was so good in it. And the way she walked. I mean, she was incredible. Yeah. And she talks about in this conversation how she's not, you know, Natalie Porman's not necessarily an actor you think of as like a chameleon that kind of like is like an imitator. And that I think was one of the challenges and scary parts of the performance for her. But she absolutely nails it. She disappears. into this role. And this conversation's great. She's super smart. We talk about a lot of her career

in this from professional and Star Wars to Woody Allen to navigating a tricky territory for a young actress. She's very candid and talking about sort of how when she was very young, like she and her parents were very conscious of her not being sexualized at a young age as an actor. And I think her comments are very insightful. So really thrilled that she came on the podcast and you're going to be hearing a lot about her through the award season and justifiably so go check out Jackie now in theaters and enjoy this conversation with one of our best, Ms. Natalie Portman. This is a good episode. As opposed to what?

What do you mean? I'm just saying this is a really good one. Yeah, but this one's up there. They're all pretty good. Yeah, this one's good. Not pretty good. It's good. Okay, I guess Sammy's seal of approval.

You can all go about your business now and enjoy the episode. You should watch this. You should listen to this one. Yeah, watch your screen and listen. With your ears. Natalie, thanks for being here today. Thanks for having me. And by here I mean in a beautiful Midtown hotel with Sirens going off outside.

Yes. And where they've like removed the furniture from the room. Yeah. Save for... I got your writer. I know you don't like any... I hate furniture. Don't put any couches in her view.

Just carpet. Just walled wall carpet. No. But it's a real pleasure to catch up with you. You know, it's been a few years, I think, since I've sat down with you. And certainly a few years since you've had a project that's really, I think, taken hold of people's imaginations like this one. Jackie's a great piece of work.

Thank you. A little bit of a sense of deja vu for you. And that was six years ago, Aronovsky was part of the process, obviously, in Black Swan. He's a producer on this one. It's getting the kind of quote-unquote awards buzz. Does it, is there a sense of deja vu or no? I don't know. I feel like every project is so different and really the way you feel about each one is so unique. And the experience making it is really sort of what defines it. And this definitely had it's a very discreet, you know, experience from anything else I've ever done. So is this one, I mean, we're in the middle of one of those silly kind of junket days where you probably had to do a bunch of those five-minute interviews, which is never not my favorite.

certainly not your favorite um is it is this the kind of day you steal yourself against you're like you have to prepare yourself mentally before you go into a day like this it's it's a lot i mean i don't know if people know about it so much but i mean i guess to explain if you don't know it and sorry if you do that you know the junket is like you you do like 45 minute interviews in a row and essentially everyone asks you the same questions so you're just repeating yourself and boring everyone in the process. And it doesn't feel like the most productive. It feels like there's a better model that we can all figure out at this point.

Yes. I mean, I'm so desensitized to it on my end for years. I actually did a show for Comedy Central. I wrote called Junketeers. That's a workplace comedy set in the Junkett world because, I mean, I'm sure you have a thousand stories. I have 10,000 stories on my end. And it's just one of those insane artificial environments where nothing really

I don't know, coherent can come out of it. Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. But, you know, obviously you want people to see a movie that you care about, but it is a lot of repeating yourself, which makes you feel like, it makes you feel fake, but then you're like, if I change, I feel about this. I know, it's what I feel. And if you change your answer, then that would be the fake, lying thing. So are you, are you warning, is it instructive like when you start to like screen this

in front of audiences, you do the Q&As at the same time and do the silly junk in interviews. Do you find that you learn more about the project in a way? Are you kind of like realizing its impact on people is different than you imagined it be? I mean, that's got to be somewhat gratifying to find out, oh, wait, this is meaning something different than I even thought it did. Yeah, it's always interesting. I think when you interact with people, once the film is finished, you see the different things people take away from it and how much people's own context.

affects the way they view the movie. I mean, even, you know, the movie started screening before the elections and now after, and that's been really interesting to see, you know, how the shaping of the conception of the movie and the message of the movie that people are taking away has changed because of that. And, of course, none of it was intended. Sure. We weren't thinking about the elections at all.

We didn't know who was going to be the candidates when we made the movie. So, you know, none of it is intentional, and all of it, all of those reactions are sort of context-based. So has your perception of the movie changed in the last couple weeks since this, like, world-shifting event has taken place? Not my, I mean, my sort of feelings about life have changed. Sure, the bigger stuff, yes. But in terms of, yeah, yeah, exactly. But the movie itself, I find it hard to have any sort of, like, judgment on a movie I, I'm in anyway.

So I feel like everything I take out of it, like I was saying before, is really from the experience and sort of what you're going through and thinking about while you're making it. And so all of those ideas kind of were experienced and formed while filming the movie. Is there a certain type of experience that you're kind of chasing after on every project? Or are you kind of willing to kind of go with the flow and open yourself up to a different kind of environment? I mean, you've done so much work at this point where you probably know the kinds of directors you want to be around. I don't want to be around the kind of sets you enjoy or don't enjoy. What are you hoping to get out of every film and does it vary?

Well, I think I appreciate now more than ever how much of a group effort making a movie is. And when it works, it's like totally magic kind of orchestra almost because it's like everyone is playing their. own instrument, but together in this way where we don't rehearse together. I mean, even if the actors rehearse together, you're never rehearsing with like the camera operators and the sound people and the focus pullers and the, you know, grips and all of the people who have to be doing their jobs well and intuitively and emotionally and together. And so it's really magic. And so that's always what you're kind of grasping for is trying to connect to the people you're working with in that way that allows you to make something together. Sure.

It's also interesting to me. Like I actually just, I don't know if you passed Cros when you were at the show this morning. I just chat with Shia L. Buf for the podcast. And he, you know, it's interesting like what different actors want to get out of an experience, right? And like, you know, he's at a place in his life where he is kind of like. I think he's craving, you know, pushing himself and like, and punishing himself if he needs to and that kind of a thing. And I'm always curious, like, we're an actor's out in their life,

because, you know, at a certain point, you want to, you want to enjoy yourself. You want to enjoy the experience. I mean, there's something to be said for, you know, making an environment healthy for yourself and others. Has a, has a film set always felt like a safe place for you from the beginning? Is it a place where you feel more comfortable than other places? Give me a sense of sort of like what? I do feel very comfortable on a film set. And with the sort of rhythm of filmmaking, you know, going someplace a few months and then

leaving, I think probably because I grew up in that rhythm, you know, I've been working since I was 11 years old in this world. So it does become sort of second nature to be in that environment and how. have that rhythm of life in terms of, you know, having this like joy, I think it's super important. And that's why I'm always, I'm always surprised when people sort of ask me why I mix in with working on more dramatic. Right. Your Highness or something like that. Like comedies or, you know, sort of superhero movies or, and, and for me, I think so much is about joy and, And finding pleasure through new experiences, too.

And for me, it's very much about new experiences. And for me, creating is very much an act of desire and an act of pleasure. And so I think even if that means in a role that is emotionally difficult, you know, that's very much a part of it. You're listening to Happy, Sad, Confused. We'll be right back after them. Without the ones like you who work tirelessly to keep things running, everything would suddenly stop. Hospitals, factories, schools, and power plants, they all depend on you.

No matter the weather, emergency, or time of day, you're the ones who get it done. At Granger, we're here for you with professional grade industrial supplies. Count on real-time product availability and fast delivery. Call, clickgranger.com or just stop by. Granger for the ones who get it done. Let's go back a little bit to even like when you were getting into acting for a second. I mean, so before even the professional, Leon, were you at, you were doing some theater? You were you were understudying as I understand it.

Like where was your head at in terms of like your aspirations? Well, I was really in like school plays and camp plays and stuff like that. And I started auditioning when I was like 10. And I, the first thing I got was I understood it in an off-Broadway musical called Ruthless. And then the second thing I got was the professional. So I was trying out for like everything like commercials and soap operas and basically anything I could get an audition for. But I just never got those. It's so funny to think about how much luck obviously plays into it in that like if you had

gotten on, frankly, the shitty sitcom of the week, whatever, like your wife. I would have been thrilled. I would have been, yeah. It's totally true that the first thing you do defines a lot of what comes after, even if it's a reaction to that. I mean, even some of the people, I mean, look, people like Ryan Gosling sort of on like Mickey Mouse Club. And obviously he built a very serious career after that. So it's not like it's more of a hill to climb. It's it's right. And also then you have to really work against that. Yes. Is it true that even again for that understudy that was Britney Spears, the other one that was also understudy for that? She was the understudy before me. Oh, got it. And I think she, the reason she left is I think she got on the Mickey Mouse Club.

And so that was how I, that was how I got that job. Yeah. You could be in Vegas right now headlining. yeah yeah exactly um i just had luke basan in for the for the podcast which was a real treat i'm such a fan of his and he's amazing he's a genius i mean we throw that word around but he's legit he really is a visionary um and cool that he's going back to sci-fi with this crazy new film that he's just done yeah i'm excited to see it yeah so so talk me a little bit about just being on set like i'm always curious for a child actor like were you treated like a kid were you treated like an adult like did you feel like you were part of an adult world did you feel condescended to and i don't even I mean, that is a negative word.

But, like, how did Luke and others treat you on the set of that first one? I think it was a combination of being treated like an adult in terms of respect and the professionalism that's expected from you, but also as a kid in, you know, just being appropriate around you and, you know, trying to make it fun for you because for a kid, it's play more than work. And I was lucky. I think my parents were really central in that. They really, you know, really emphasized always having fun and never pressured me to do anything, never got involved in the money aspect of it with me. And really were just sort of allowing me to do what I love to do. And we're always sort of like, you know, whenever you don't like it, let's move on,

do something else. And then also really just protected me from sort of the bad things you hear about. Like, I never, I don't think I saw drugs until I was like in my late 20s, you know. That's the funny thing. So, like, when we were sitting down, like, I grew up here in New York City too. And maybe I just had a very sheltered existence too. I've never smoked a cigarette. I've like, I've never seen any, I've virtually never seen anything. And it's like, I think people imagine if you grow up in a professional environment, if you grow up in the city. It's like prostitutes and whatever. Right. And it's...

Yeah, I think it's sort of a... It's all avoidable when the like environment, you know, when the parents especially are kind of creating an environment that is cleaner. And my parents absolutely did that. So what did you make of the actors you were working with? Like what was your impression of like Jean-Renault or Gary Oldman? Oh, it was incredible. I feel so lucky that, you know, on my first film I got to watch.

them because so much of what you do as a kid is just sort of sponge from the people you're around and try and copy them and what they do and Jean was so I mean he's such a great actor and was so kind of minimalist with what he did but it was really interesting and then Gary allowed this like wild eccentricity and it was it was just really lucky to get to work with them I asked to Luke about this. And I know, ironically, despite it being your first film, it's probably one of the films you were asked most about, because it does have a really special place in a lot of people's heart. Did you ever talk to Luke or anybody about doing a continuation? Was that something you wanted to do? Or is it something that? We did at one point, but he didn't want to

direct it. And I was like, I don't want to do it with anyone else, you know? But the cool thing is, is that we actually filmed Jackie in his studios outside of Paris. So I visited there when he was shooting Blair. And those are amazing. They're amazing studios. And so every day going to set, I would see him in the morning because his office, he was prepping Valerian while we were shooting Jackie. And so I would see him every morning. And it was so wonderful. It felt like a full circle. Yeah. What a facility too. And like the fact that he uses like students like on his films and stuff and like walking by, walked by the fifth element car as I walked in. It was like my brain exploded walking into that.

Yeah. He's really, he's really visionary also in terms of what he's building. over there. So jumping around, and I know a lot of people talk about certain films, maybe one of the films that doesn't come up a lot, but I love personally. I don't know what your thoughts is the Woody Allen film. Everyone says, I love you. Oh, thanks. I do love that film. I adore that movie. I think it's so, it's like, there's something really special about it. It's very, like, romantic and magical. So how do you remember your experience on that? Do you, I've heard you be somewhat critical of your own performance or singing in it, or is that not true? No, no. I mean, I'm I barely sing in it and when I do I'm like crying while singing it's not exactly like

meant to be a beautiful aria but um it was uh it was so fun to work on because there were a lot of young people and um and we were in new york and paris and we weren't um we didn't have to work every day you know we weren't in all the time we had like a lot of time to kind of just play nice so there's like gabby hoffman who i love who's so amazing and i it's like one of my favorite actresses now um and natasha leone who's so great and um lucas hoss and um live tyler was there for a while i think she got cut out of the film in the end but she was there for a little so we had this sort of group and um we had so much fun together and um so i mainly remember the sort of of like social camaraderie of that.

And on set, I remember being just kind of like scared all the time because he had people improvised and I really didn't know how to do that. I was like in those like group scenes, I'm always like eating a sandwich on the back. So I was like, if anyone expects me to talk, I'll just have a full mouth. Well, you really did dive in head first between working with like Luke and Michael Mann and Woody and Tim Burton. I mean, these are like the kind of people that actors work 30 years to, like, feel confident and comfortable in. And I guess in retrospect, that's done you a great service and that, like, you kind of can handle anything or have that confidence.

Well, it was really lucky to have those opportunities so young and also probably to have those opportunities before I knew better than to be, like, really intimidated by these people. Because I think if I went on to set with one of these guys right now. I'd probably be so, so intimidated and afraid. So as a kid, there's something kind of fraying about not knowing what these people mean to, you know, cinema at large. Right, right. So, and this kind of dovetails with, like, some of the themes of Jackie, this notion of, like, celebrity and constructing a narrative about yourself. I'm curious, like, at this point we're talking about in these early years, did you feel, like, a public figure? Like, when did it start to shift in terms of, like, feeling, like, a quote, unquote,

celebrity and was that was that an off-putting feeling when it came um i didn't feel like a public figure probably until star wars came out not even because we've we filmed the first star wars when i was 16 but it didn't come out until i was 18 when i was graduating high school um and so everything was so different i mean there was there wasn't the internet yeah they're literally, I mean, it makes me sound ancient, but the internet literally did not exist. And so it made, like, I could be on, like, magazine covers and no one in my school would know because they weren't, like, reading Vogue or whatever, you know? Like, so it was, it was a different time.

And then Star Wars, I think I started feeling it when, like, when Star Wars was about to come out, they had they had like a there was like a radio station that everyone listened to every morning like going to school and that radio station held a contest to like locate my high school or something which really really scared me because it made me feel like not unsafe to just go to at school and, you know, had like countdowns to my 18th birthday and stuff like that, like kind of creepy stuff. And so that was when I started to feel for the first time, like, uncomfortable about being public. And you were also, I mean, correct me if I'm wrong, you and your parents were pretty sensitive to like, you know, what can happen in terms of like

overly sexualizing a young actress with certain kinds of roles. You know, I think like there was talk at the time, like you turned down Lolita, which they were doing, et cetera. Was that something that you remember at the time like you were aware of, your parents were more aware of? I think both. I think it was very, I mean, we were aware, I think all of us when we read the script of Leon or the professional that there was sexuality to the character and that, you know,

it is a girl sort of on the cusp of her, like, discovering her own sexuality. But the reaction to it, like there were reviews that in the reviews they would like criticize my parents for allowing that to happen as if they were. And meanwhile, my parents were like the most overprotective, like, you know, not show business kind of parents. And so I think it was hard for them. They worried that they had, like, made a mistake or hurt me or put me in a position. And I felt embarrassed because they would talk about, you know, my, like, breast buds under my undershirt.

And I was 12 years old. And it was, I was so embarrassed by it and felt so uncomfortable and felt objectified. And I didn't want to put myself in that position again. And so there were things that. I was offered afterwards that I didn't want to do. They could feed that that narrative. Right. And I wanted to just really go against that, which, yeah, it's interesting so often how much you just react to yourself.

Totally. There's more happy, sad, confused coming up after this break. So you mentioned that that huge decision to embark on the Star Wars films, the three films. Was that, was it a decision or was it like a no-brainer, once you got that offer, like that you don't say no to that? Or was there like a Natalie Portman family meeting where let's list the pros and the cons of what this can do to our lives? Because this is massive. This is beyond. Yeah, it wasn't like a family meeting.

but it wasn't necessarily obvious because, you know, Star Wars is such a huge phenomenon in the U.S. and internationally, but for my family, it wasn't like a thing. It's not something I grew up with. It wasn't. I didn't really know anything about it. And, yeah, it was. So people I was working with, like, agents and stuff were telling. me like this is the biggest deal you have to be part of this you this you but i i i didn't that

wasn't something i right i instinctively knew because um i i didn't realize i think until i stepped into it what a universe it was and it was it was an incredible opportunity to get to be part of and um i'm so lucky that i got got the chance um but it was it wasn't like an obvious like oh of course I'm going to do this. Yeah, yeah. I'm curious also, I mean, you've talked about, and all the actors that have been in the silence have talked about like the technical, you know, aspects of it, which were innovative at the time are still innovative.

It was shot digitally, as I recall. It was obviously a ton of green and blue screen, et cetera. And you were still a relatively young actor. Were like Liam and Ewan helpful to you and kind of like, or were they overwhelmed as well by kind of the apparatus? Well, I think it was one of the first times that a movie has. had used that much blue screen or green screen. And it was definitely, it was the first time

a film was shot digitally, a film like that was completely digital. So I think it was pretty new for everyone. And it's really, really challenging because not only are you imagining the interior lives of your characters, like you do on every movie where you're acting a role, but you also have to imagine everything

that's going on around you. So it's almost, And it's not like there's a fire truck over there. There's like a six-headed beast that no one's ever seen over there. Right. Look at my computer screen. Right. And that's over there.

Right. And even they don't always have that. Sometimes there's not even like a sketch or a pre-visualization or a model ahead of time. Sometimes they're literally just like there's this monster that's attacking you. Right. Look scared. And you're often working off of like tape marks. Like you're a ton of.

ball or tapes. Yeah, an X. So it's challenging in a very, very different way than any other movie. Do you take a certain amount of joy and sort of seeing like the rise again of Star Wars? I'm doing a shoot with Felicity this afternoon. And obviously, Daisy, everyone fell in love with that character. Have you spent, have you met Daisy or? I haven't and I love her in the movie.

It's, and I haven't seen Felicity's movie, but I haven't seen Felicity's movie. I think she's an extraordinary actress. So I think it's incredible, and I think Kathleen Kennedy has done, like, such an amazing job. And especially creating these central female characters is so great for the whole Star Wars universe. Well, I mean, and, like, you know, as you well know, I think, like, for good or for bad in this industry, in your industry, the economics kind of drives who gets hired for what. And it seems undeniable at this point when you look at something like Hunger Games and Star Wars and Diversion. I mean, like, all these female-led franchises, it's like the proofs and if you need a numbers,

okay, there are the numbers for you. Right. And also it sort of breaks down the concept of what are boy movies and what are girl movies and what are girls into and what are boys into, which is really important for us because we're still giving like our girls like pink, you know, and nail polish and, you know, dolls and boys, trucks and balls. And it's like when you see what kids are, if you. provide them with different options. It's like there is no natural gender distinction between

these things. So the only other important $64,000 question on Star Wars movies I have is have you decided or has the decision already been made on to show your son the prequels first? Or where do you start? I don't know. Well, I feel like you have to start with the first movies that came out. I haven't shown him yet, but I was talking about it with a friend because then there's the reveal of, you know, there's like an important reveal that I think you would, if you watch, if you watch my brain around watching it, frankly, from episode one first, yeah, then there's no reveal. Yes, some drama.

Which is kind of a big deal, kind of everything. Right. So we're all agreed. Yes. Show them in the order they were made. Right. So coming off of, so were you shooting Star Wars through your time at Harvard then? Yes.

I well I did the first one when I was 16 and then so that's before I started college and then the second one when I was 19 after my first year of college and then the last one after the summer after I graduated so it kind of took me through and it was somewhere in there because I remember this even just being a few years older than you but being here in New York at the time I remember what a huge deal it was when I saw the cast assembled for the Seagull here in New York It was like every amazing actor on the planet directed by Mike Nichols. And I think that was where you met, Mike, right? Philip Seymour Hoffman, Kevin Klein, Merle Streep, do I have this right?

Yeah, Christopher Walken, right. Marshie K. Hardin, John Goodman. It was like unbelievable. It was insane. So give me, was that a big moment for you? Was that kind of? It was huge. It was really, really unbelievable to get to watch all of those people and their different processes.

through a rehearsal process and then on stage every night and be working on a piece as amazing as the seagull. I mean, the seagull's maybe the best play ever written. And one of the greatest roles and then to do it for free outside in Central Park. It was really like the most magical experience. And Mike became one of the most important people in my life, the director. It's interesting because I've heard you talk about that influence on your life. One of the things that he helped you with or kind of gave you advice about was using your voice, right, altering your voice a little bit.

And that occurs to me in watching Jackie, actually even occurs to me in talking about Star Wars. And voice is something I think we forget is how, as like what a key component it can be in terms of like constructing a character. Yes. Was that was that, what was it that he told you or advised you about? Well, I, he'd noticed that I had sort of like this little girl voice. You know, and even as an adult, I was still speaking with this little girl voice. And I think I didn't even acknowledge, I didn't really understand what he was telling me until, you know, a decade after he told me. He was just, because I think he also was putting it in a way that was not critical.

He was like, you know, let's work with a voice coach so that you can expand your range and try different things. And now when I look back on it and I, you know, if I happen upon an old film of mine, I can hear that I was really talking like a little girl. And I think that it's been useful to use even for, you know, like Black Swan. It was a big vocal choice for me because that was sort of we used to, Darren and I had this sort of code of like he would say white swan, black swan, that there were these sort of two characters within the character. and the white swan had this little girl voice because I noticed with a lot of the ballerinas I met that they had this little girl voice. And I think there's something about being treated like a child.

Sure. Which often happens to women. And especially if you're a small woman, like physically small. Yeah. A lot of friends of mine and I have this conversation when you're physically small as a woman. Like people will treat you as a child even when you're like way into adulthood.

Right, right. And sometimes you internalize that and behave like that. And it's also more socially acceptable. It makes you seem less scary or, you know, you seem more delicate. You seem more, you know, less threatening, which are, of course, sort of classic, passive female qualities. And having this, having a voice, having like a more. more grounded, lower, just opening up your voice to have different possibilities. Sure.

Helps you a lot, of course, try different things as a character. Do you ever experience anything close to, like, stage fright, whether we're talking about something like Seagull or... Oh, yeah. Going on stage is very, very scary. I don't really have it on film. I mean, I get scared about playing characters, but... But it's not debilitating in the moment.

It's like maybe in anxiety leading up to shooting or whatever. It's not like my heart's pounding, like, before. for every take. But, yeah, going on stage definitely has that. Although I haven't done it as much at all. What was more intimidating was it the Oscar speech or the Harvard commencement address? Oh, my God. They were both terrifying.

I have like, I have a hard time public speaking. Like, I always feel like I'm going to cry when I have to talk in front of people. So it, like, comes off like I'm really emotional about whatever I'm talking about, but I'm just really scared to talk. She looks. It seems a little... Exactly. A little shaky. And it's weird because I obviously, you know, if I'm like performing, it feels totally different.

And in life, I'm like an out. I'm not like a shy person. But, but yeah, it's funny. So I was, yeah, very scared for both. The Oscars, I was like mainly scared that I was going to fall because, like, I, was so pregnant as I am now and in heels it's just not not and there's like stairs and they're making an obstacle course for you basically it's it's not a good situation and Harvard it was just you know there's such a big I watched so many of people's past speeches and

usually they get comedians and I was like oh man I'm not a comedian that's so disappointing because all anyone wants to do ever is laugh. Right, right. Briefly, because I know you've got a busy day. So it sounds like you look back on your time in the Marvel universe. I mean, it was a fun time. You got to work with kind of Brana, who I'm obsessed with, amazing. Did it become less enjoyable?

I mean, there was the whole thing about, like, Patty Jenkins was going to direct the sequel. And I know it sounded like you were obviously disappointed, as many were when that didn't work out. Was there any kind of feeling of like, oh, this is turning? Maybe this is the right time to get out of it. I loved working on it. Chris Hemsworth is one of the great people working right now. He's just like a joy to be around and he's super, super talented. And Tom Hiddleston also and Kat Dennings and Stellan Scars Guard. I was like really blessed with the people I got to work with. So I really loved it. And I really liked, you know, both directors I got to work with. So I really don't have.

complaints. I liked all the Marvel people. And it's that those are really fun movies to get to be part of and again like kids love them. Yeah, I mean, I'm excited that they're creating more female characters and hiring more female directors and minority characters and directors as well because they have the power to do that. And it's what needs to happen in our entire industry, not just in those films. Speaking of which, are you still planning, developing this Ruth Bader Ginsburg project? Yes, yes.

I'm hoping that this will happen this year. Yes, looks like it will. Very nice. And then, you know, just coming full circle on Jackie, which I'm surprised, like we haven't apologized, we haven't spent more time on it, but there's so much to talk about. So Jackie, in terms of Pablo Lorraine,

an amazing filmmaker, who I think surprised many being attached to something like this, Cheyenne, do I have that, right, right? Were you, because were you attached to this when Darren was going to direct it or did it? No. So Darren was going to direct it with someone else. And then they decided not to do that. And so then he just wanted to produce it. So when he sent it to me, it was already something that he was only going to produce. And was there sensitivity for you? Because you haven't actually played that many real life figures in your career that I can think of. And, you know, knowing what we do know of Jackie, like this would be the last thing, frankly. She wouldn't want to see a film back. herself and many few people would probably um is there is there sensitivity about that knowing like you know the the the maybe the family this doesn't necessarily need or want to relive this

very sad week in their lives or did uh right i think that yeah you definitely i definitely have a lot of sensitivity and appreciation for their sense of privacy um at the same time i think it is like so covered it's not exactly like we're the first people to delve into this part of history so i hope it's not um more painful in any way and i think that if anything the movie really expands our appreciation for jacky and without being like reverent you know it's not it's not like worshiping her in any way but it's um but i think It is showing her humanity an incredible contribution she made to our country. And it's talking about someone that in the most dire and saddest of circumstances took control

of her life, of her husband's legacy, of her legacy. She seemed like very aware of the pivotal nature of those few days following assassination. And she was very aware that although she was going through something privately that was incredibly unimaginably horrible, that it also had. had significance publicly and had this public image. Well, as I said, it's a fantastic piece of work. Thank you. And hopefully all, I would say this is like a silly time of year

with all these crazy red carpets and stuff. But it's all for a good cause. These are movies that we all love. And more people should check out these labors of love for you and Pablo and Darren. So hope to see you down the road. Thanks so much. You too. Thanks, Natalie.

And so ends another address. edition of Happy, Sad, Confused. Remember to review, rate, and subscribe to this show on iTunes, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm a big podcast person. I'm Daisy Ridley, and I definitely wasn't pressured to do this by Josh. This episode of Happy Sad Confused was produced by Michael Catano, James T. Green, Mukda Mohan, and Kashamahilovich for the MTV Podcast Network, with additional engineering by Little Everywhere.

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