Happy Sad Confused - Natalie Portman, Julianne Moore, & Charles Melton

Episode Date: December 7, 2023

 In this episode of HAPPY SAD CONFUSED, Natalie Portman, Julianne Moore, and Charles Melton open up about their experiences and memories from MAY DECEMBER. Don't miss this exclusive opportunity to hear their untold tales. Make sure you SUBSCRIBE so you don't miss an episode of HAPPY SAD CONFUSED! SUPPORT OUR SPONSORS! BetterHelp -- Go to BetterHelp.com/HSC for 10% off your first month MasterClass -- Go to MasterClass.com/HSC for 15% off Check out the ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Happy Sad Confused patreon here⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠! We've got discount codes to live events, merch, early access, exclusive episodes of, video versions of the podcast, and more! To watch episodes of Happy Sad Confused, subscribe to ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Josh's youtube channel here⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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We are very much in the final sprint to election day. And face it, between debates, polling releases, even court appearances, it can feel exhausting, even impossible to keep up with. I'm Brad Milkey. I'm the host of Start Here, the Daily Podcast from ABC News. And every morning, my team and I get you caught up on the day's news in a quick, straightforward way that's easy to understand, with just enough context so you can listen, Get it, and go on with your day. So, kickstart your morning. Start Smart with Start Here and ABC News,

because staying informed shouldn't feel overwhelming. I'm going to read you a line. You tell me if you said it or you're a co-star here. Okay. I'm not afraid to die. I've been dying a little bit each day since you came back into my life. That's, that's me. That's you.

But, like, Do you know, do you need a hint? Is it V? No, fuck. It's a film a few people in here probably have seen a thousand times. Oh my God. Is it Star Wars? It's Star Wars.

Oh my God, no one said it. It's Attack of the Clones. Okay, thank you. Yeah. No problem. And, yes, I'm an expert. You're welcome, everybody. Prepare your ears, humans, happy, sad, confused begins now.

I'm Josh Horowitz, and we are live at the 92nd Street Live for a special edition of Happy, Sad, Confused with the cast of May December. Thank you all so much for coming out tonight. This audience here in New York has just seen this amazing movie. If only there was something to talk about with this movie, right? There's nothing we could possibly discuss. This is one of the best movies I've seen in some time. This is a smart, cool crowd. So you know, Todd Haynes always delivers safe, Velvet Gold Mine, Carol. And he always brings out the best in his already fine actors. And he has done it again with this one. This features a trio of amazing performances. And we have three seats to fill tonight. And I'm going to talk to these actors. I'm going to take some of your questions. We're going to have a good time. Are you ready for this?

Our trio of actors, first up, I want to introduce a gentleman who has, as of today, is now a Gotham Award winner, a New York Film Critic Circle winner. As of today, please give a warm welcome to Charles Melton, everybody. Please give a warm welcome to Academy Award winner, Julianne Moore, everybody. We've got another Academy Award winner out here tonight. Producer and star Natalie Portman, give a warm well filming. I think they like the movie guys. So far so good. Congratulations.

This is a truly special piece of work. First of all, okay, my main takeaway is obviously never let an actor into your home to research. Did I get the rest of it? Is that what you were going for? Yeah. Yeah, okay. Just checking, just checking. This movie is so complex in the best ways.

It's, I don't know, I fell in love with it myself, I think, when Julianne's hot dog line within the first five minutes. When did you fall in love, respectively, with this project? Let's start with Natalie, because I know this kind of starts, in a sense, with you and you're wanting to work with Todd. Give us a sense of where this began. Yeah, I've dreamed of working with Todd Haynes, my entire career. I've watched his collaborations with Julie,

especially, I think, with such admiration and inspiration in my entire career, I like studied those films and loved them so much from safe, far from heaven, I mean, every single one. And I had sent Todd a few scripts in the past that he did not take to you. And then Jessica Elbaum, one of the other producers, sent me Sammy Birch's script,

and I was so blown away by all of the questions that she poses in this story and the characters she draws so finely and thought maybe this is the one and sent it to Todd and thank God he took to it. Pretty quickly, as I understand it too. He kind of responded to it immediately? Yeah, I think he's quite sure about what he likes and what he does when he said no to me too it was very fast like kind but

fast and drag it out and this was kind and fast yes so before I come to your wonderful co-stars I heard I think from Christine Vashon the wonderful producer of this one of the producers was this also did you intend for a second to direct this was this presented to you as something to direct I mean Jessica had sent it to me kind of openly you know you know would you think of directing it? Would you think of acting in it? And I was like, I'm dying to play this role, but if I could do it with Todd, that would be a dream.

Yeah, well, it worked out clearly. So anybody that knows Todd's work, knows Julianne, goes way back with Todd. You guys are intrinsically linked forever. I was just telling you backstage. I saw Safe again recently use this as a great excuse. What a fantastic film, your first collaboration. What is the nature of the relationship?

I guess five films in now at this point. Does he kind of always key you into what he's working on? Like is there a kind of open door policy of what you both are towing with or has it worked? No, I mean, honestly, it's like Natalie said to, he's very decisive. When he makes up his mind to do something, that's what he's doing. And he's kind of, and often he's pursuing his own projects. So it's pretty unusual when something pops up like this and he says he's going to direct it. And I am usually just a recipient of an email or a phone call or something.

And in this case, he just said, you know, emailed me and said, Natalie Portman, sent me the script. I want to slip it to you. Like he didn't even want to say anything just to see if you'll like this. And I was like, well, are you directing this? And he's like, yeah. And I was like, well, I'll do it. You know, but I mean, it was phenomenal.

And I think that, I mean, in terms of our relationship, it's been pretty consistent just over the years. I think that we have a similar sensibility. But he always does that. You know, he draws these really interesting, wonderful, creative people around him. And he finds lots of that sensibility in people like Natalie and Charles, you know. It's like you, you know, it's a kind of, it's a wonderful collective when you work with Todd.

So then we come to Mr. Melton, sir, congratulations. I mean, I think a lot of people came here tonight. You know, they're expecting, okay, Natalie Portman, Julianne Moore, they're gonna blow me away on screen. You have had a different kind of career before this. And obviously you've done great work on television and different films, but this is a moment. And congratulations, I hope you're enjoying this

because you have made the most. I mean, you know, it's one thing to get the role, but then to make the most of it, and you really have. Talk to me about, like, when this comes around, as I understand that it's another kind of self-tape audition. Like, is it just another amazing opportunity that may or may not, you know, go your way? Or is it something that you immediately keyed into with whatever material you got? Yeah. Well, Sammy's script, when I first read it, I just felt this immediate connection to Joe and her. her writing, there is so much beyond the text in between the text.

And when you see that Natalie Portman is attached and Julian Moore, directed by Todd Haynes, it's kind of a surreal moment. And that kind of just led into this six-week auditioning process of self-taping before I flew out to New York and met Julie for the first time for a chemistry read, and I met Todd. So take me into the room, chemistry read. This has to be, like, again, like there's a lot riding on this. this. Like, you're about to walk into a room with Julianne Moore, Todd Haynes. Yeah. It was very surreal.

I remember, you know, I was kind of discovering my process while I was self-taping and everything, and it was really exciting for me. And I remember standing outside of the audition room, and I heard Julie and Todd talking about the scene. And my heart started beating out of my chest, and I was like, oh my gosh, I don't want to go in. I was like, oh, what do I do? do. And then I went in there and it was just, it was so incredible. I mean, I kind of felt like I was walking into heaven and then I blacked out. My team was like, how'd you do? And I was like, I don't know. But this whole thing's been a gift. So at that point, it was amazing when Todd called me and said that, hey, you're going to play Joe. It was really exciting.

That's a game changer. Talk to me a little bit. For you guys in your respective careers, Do you have a comparable moment, like an audition where it felt like a lot is riding on this? This could change the course of my career, whether it was a collaboration, something you got, or a room you walked into. Does anything resonate with Charles' story in your own careers? I felt that way about safe. I mean, that was sort of the beginning. That was when I first met Todd.

When I read the, it was the beginning of the 90s or the beginning of independent film. And I got this script out of the blue, and it was unlike anything I'd ever seen before. It was very, very spare. And I really, and I thought, I didn't understand why somebody hadn't been cast in it. It was so good. I'm like, why is this an open audition? It just seemed crazy.

And I was very certain about how I heard it. You know, I heard it only one particular way. And I was determined. I really, really wanted it. But I also knew that if he didn't see it the way that I saw it, I thought, I'm not right for this. I just saw it with this particular, you know, choice. And the weird thing was,

of what I went in and I did it, Todd was like, that's Carol White. And so that was the beginning of our collaboration. But it might have been the only time when I felt that certain about something and that where I received that result. Well, it also came, correct me if I'm wrong, you got a pivotal kind of moment in your career where I think you'd worked with Robert Altman, perhaps, by then.

And you were starting, like you obviously had success in a different field in TV and soaps, et cetera, but like wanting to redefine the kind of career you have is easier said than done and folks like Altman and Todd kind of giving you those gifts. It was a different time too. You know, there was a big kind of switch in the culture of film, you know, from the 80s to the early 90s. That was what was interesting. What was being made in the 1980s was not what was happening in the early 90s.

And so suddenly there was this kind of, there were these different opportunities and these different voices. And Todd, of course, was one of the leaders of those voices. For you Natalie, does anything resonate? When I think back to your early career, I mean, you kind of shot out of a canon with some amazing filmmakers that you like forged these relationships with. But did did any kind of shift happen early in the career where someone saw you in a different way or? I think when I think working with Mike Nichols was was a real like shift because it had been like after

doing Star Wars and all this stuff which were kind of like big blockbustery things but I wasn't really having the kind of artistic experiences that I was excited about. And he, you know, got me on stage and I got to do The Seagull with him and this amazing group of actors in Shakespeare in the Park. And then he was a real, like, advocate for me. Like, he would call up Anthony Minghella and be like, cast her. And, you know, it was the first time that someone had kind of, like, taken me under their wing like that. And it was really, really important for me. It's funny. Over the years, like, so many, like, actors, he met so much to so many different actors and had that kind of relationship and really seemed like the smartest,

coolest, funniest guy you would ever want to know. He was the best and really took mentorship as seriously as his artistry and is, I mean, I think about it all the time about how generous that is and how much energy it takes to do both. All right, so let's dig into a little bit of the characters in this film because each of them are fascinating in their own right. And I don't know, I'm just curious, like, from your own perspectives for the characters you play in this, like, could you make the argument

from your own perspective that they are the sympathetic hero of the story? Like, because I know you hear that all the time from an actor, like, even if you're the villain, you kind of see yourself as, like, motivated in a certain way. Everyone's the hero of their own life.

That's what I'm saying, yeah. It's true, you're not the anti-hero in your life. Can you make the case first for Elizabeth? Well, I think that she is, you know, it's sort of like what you're saying, that we're not here to judge, I think she would say we're here to explore the human heart and the human heart is complicated and is not, you know, going to always be, is not always going to be good, as she says in that kind of classroom interview,

the bad people are the most interesting to play. So I think for her, it's about seeking the, you know, art, the truth, the heart of it, not the morality of it. Right. I will say, like, I can get on her, I can understand where she's coming from in different respects at different times, perhaps, in the film, but when she talks about downgrading the rap gift for the crew, I'm like, that's, that's just a jerk movie. That's just.

but I could imagine like this is such a and I've seen this movie a few times now and the more you see it and you will enjoy it again see it again because there's a lot to dig into the layers of this character I mean like this must have appealed to you so much because you are obviously playing an actor and we as an audience can't help but like oh that's Natalie Portman at first she is an actor I know this is her as an actor but this is obviously a character and a character playing researching somebody who has already been played by another actor. There's just like a lot of meta wares here

that must be fascinating for you to approach. Yes, we've been talking about it a lot that Julie was doing research for Gracie and as a baker, you know, so I had to go and follow someone who was a home baker to learn how to bake a cake and sell a cake from your home so that Natalie could come and observe me

as a character. Margino-Lang Baker in a, you know. Like, it was just like, uh-uh, yeah. But do you, I mean, I think I've heard you talk about this a little bit. Like, do you kind of enjoy the fact that the audience does think about that a little bit? They're thinking, at first at least, like, oh, that's Natalie Portman. Wait, what am I to make of that?

Her playing an actor and where is the line between reality and fiction? Yeah, well, I love, I think I'm always obsessed and keep returning to this theme of performance and identity. And especially, I think, for women, the different levels of performance that we have in our lives of, you know, we are meant to perform our femininity, the way we look, the way we behave. And then an actress, of course, has another layer of that, because she's literally performing, but also she enters a room and, you know, you go to a barbecue and people treat you a certain way. And then you have to perform like, oh, no, I'm just down to earth, I'm one of you.

You know, like there's so many layers of her performance from the minute you get there. And I think you see that with Gracie as well, and so you're just kind of like, begging for someone to just be themselves and tell you the truth. And I think that's what Charles does so beautifully is you're like, oh, there's a heart here. There's a beating heart of someone who's just like, you know, being open and honest. Yeah, I mean, it's interesting.

Like for Gracie, then it's like, so much of it is presentational of trying to kind of like present this picture of like, this is the greatest romance in the history of romances. And we just see, we see, we see, the cracks very early on and we see them build as it goes. This is like for those that don't know and probably a lot of you do know, like it's loosely inspired by Mary Kay Leterno and that case. Like is it important for you? Like obviously the speech affectation for instance, I believe that's probably inspired by Mary Kay or a little bit or no? Not really.

I mean she didn't speak that way. I mean I was kind of I you know I obviously I looked at the documentary footage and I read the materials that we had and stuff and but but Todd was also very clear that this was not what we were doing, you know, we're not, we were not, it's not a portrait of Mary Kay LaTerno. So I, one of the things that was interesting me about the script was how, I mean, I was struggling with it that she seemed to be, this character seemed to be kind of commanding in a sense, always telling people what to do. And it wasn't, it wasn't making any sense to me. I didn't know. I'm like, who was this person? I couldn't find her in that. And then, and then when I realized, oh, no, she is, she has a story,

about being rescued by her prince and her prince was 13 years old and that she has to elevate him to being an adult right which makes her kind of forever the princess forever the child so she's not so when she's commanding everybody she's still like the princess she's like a little girl in a princess dress with an apron on and a wooden spoon in her hand that whole idea so the narrative is so highly constructed and the space between I think that that narrative that she's pushing all the time or she's living. And what actually happened is so huge. And in between that, there's this tremendous tension and volatility, which Sammy, of course, reveals when she's alone. And that was what was fascinating to me. And fascinating, I think, in the real story too,

when you kind of looked at the documentary footage, the amount of pain, I think, that was evident. So I was interested in that. I mean, like Natalie, I was very interested the performative aspects of that, of that hyperfemininity. And then also genderized culture, too. I kept thinking about that. She says, you know, if someone makes a choice like that,

if they feel like they need to be rescued romantically by a 13-year-old because they can't get out of whatever they're in, what does that say about the genderized culture they're living in? Not that she's, you know, without responsibility, I'm not saying that. But it's very complicated, and the things that Sammy is writing about are really, really complicated, very human ideas. And then Joe, it almost feels like this is this guy, and you know this character.

I'm going to let you speak with because you don't want to hear me describe Joe. But it feels like an emotionally stunted guy, a guy that's kind of like been stuck since this happened. And he is now this kind of man child who is kind of still, I mean, it strikes me in watching the movie, the ex-husband still talks about you as the boy. And I think to many, like they're still seeing him

as this boy stuck at 13. For you, what was the key into kind of figuring out who Joe was? Well, it was just like, you know, with Sammy's script, just really looking at what happened to Joe at 13 and the sense of responsibility that he had to take on. And not only was he a father at the end of the day, but he had all this public projection onto how he was feeling and kind of, it kind of dis...

storted his reality in a sense and froze him in that time in a way his innocence was taken from him. And so how would that manifest through just him, you know, where we find him in the script being a 36-year-old father, getting ready to be an empty nester. Joe had to, in order to survive, create this adaptive adult child. It got Willa. It got my daughter. I need to find her. Willard! From acclaimed director Paul Thomas Anderson. You can save that girl.

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if he's the hero or not. He just put his marriage and his kids and everything before himself. And it's really, you know, when he meets Elizabeth and towards that two-week journey of the script where Joe finally sees himself in that scene in the mirror, where Joe is finally looking at himself. And to me, that was the first time he's ever just looked at himself.

And, um, I don't know. So many aspects of my love, like, it strikes me, it illuminates how kind of, and I mean this in the best possible way, how insane acting is. Like, because we see these moments where like what it's like for an actor sometimes to prepare in isolation without the accoutrements of a sense. set and we see your character in the stock room, you know, in the hotel room, and like going through these motions that like to any other like same person witnessing would be like, oh, that person is not well.

I mean, does that resonate with you? Because this probably is actually a part of your respective processes to different degrees. I don't expect you're going back to do a storeroom and doing that, but you are probably doing line readings in a mirror, et cetera, et cetera. Does that resonate at all in terms of, did that resonate when reading the script? Absolutely, and I think one of the greatest things that Todd gave me when discussing the character was not falling into making fun of her, which was a big temptation because it is so absurd what we do, and it is really, like, great to laugh at it, and, you know, there's so much absurdity, and I think the absurdity comes out, but, you know, it was important for Todd. that when we start, she's a reliable narrator, that she's the one you kind of trust

to be this sort of detective in uncovering the story of what happened with Grace and Joe, and then, of course, it unravels, and you realize she's not reliable at all. And so to not overdo the, you know, laughing at it, so then it can be sort of revealed the absurdity of it all later.

and to try and find those moments again where another thing we talked about a lot was when she is alone, like in the stock room or in the hotel. And even though she's performing, those are actually kind of the most truthful moments because she's not performing for anybody, yeah. There's no audience. But yet there's the camera as the mirror as the audience. So there is kind of double, double, you know, acceptance of artifice. in there. If we

did peek at your private processes, what would amuse or shock us about what you do to prepare for a role? Well, I would have a triple cheeseburger from five guys.

Best hot dogs and milkshake. Caprisons. I think for me it's the muttering. It's the constant muttering of the lines. It's like around the house, around my kids in the car, and I'll be like, oh, you're working. We hope she's working. That's right, she's just muttering, yeah.

I think for you, Natalie, or is it's a... Oh, I mean, so much of it is so silly. I would be enticing, I don't know. I mean, I don't know, a lot of, like, writing down stuff. Like I have always like notebooks full of stuff and, yeah, and that are, yeah, I think it, I don't know how surprising it is, but it's just a lot of. But you know what would surprise you about how we work, though, is how much we laugh. We laugh so hard. I laugh particularly hard with these guys.

I mean, we really did. I mean, there was a tremendous sense of play on set and enjoyment and real, real pleasure. and I think because we trusted each other so much and we trusted Todd and he sets up an environment where you have so much scaffolding, so much context. The frame is kind of, you know where you are

all the time, you know the story that he's telling and that frees you up tremendously as an actor and so you just, so we really, I think we thrilled to be there and we were happy to be in each other's company and we've really yeah, we laughed a lot.

I've heard Todd say, like, he was actually worried you guys had, it was an enjoyable shoot, like, can't turn out well. Because for those that don't know, this was a 23-day shoot. This is a very short production schedule for a film like this, you know, a couple of gasps. But, I mean, are you, for instance, I want to talk about, like, I mean, the linkage between your two characters and how you kind of have to mirror each other and the progression throughout the film. Like, are you, were you able to shoot somewhat? in sequence because that's that is a challenge to build what you're trying to do in emulating to gracie through the film yeah it was it was really scary because we didn't have rehearsal time and we did have this thing that our performances had to be coordinated in this very

specific way but the luck of it all i mean first of all i've dreamed my entire career of getting to work with julie i mean she's an actress i i i study, I like worship her work. And it was so extraordinary to get to watch her up close. And luckily that my character was studying her. Great excuse. Sorry, I have to do this, Julie. Sorry. Yeah. So I could, I could, you know, be in awe and, you know, observation and try and copy her. And it was all part of my character. But luckily, also, Julie, extraordinarily generous so she was very thoughtful in constructing her performance what she could offer me to you know as an identifiable

traits to copy in constructing her own character that also of course were true to that her character and then we did shoot relatively chronologically so that I was able to in real time kind of learn what she was what she was doing and what Natalie did so brilliantly too which was so wonderful is that you know Gracie's dying for approbation from Elizabeth. She wants her to see her as she wants to portray herself, you know. So Natalie was doing that. So in, for example, the dress scene where we're shopping for the graduation dresses,

and I'm sitting here and, you know, and I'm going like, you know, Gracie has these hyper-feminine gestures, and, you know, I can see Natalie doing it, and it's pleasurable. And so I'm having the experience as a character of, feeling that, you know, a feeling, feeling that. But then when I see the movie, I see, you know, later on as an actress, and I see the things that Natalie did that Gracie didn't see. Right. And it was wonderful.

I was like, oh my God, that's just phenomenal. I loved it because we were very much a team when we were working and I think it made, it just made it so pleasurable and so exciting because we could really lean into what the other one was doing. I think we felt very connected. And that we were, we were reeling it together as actors and characters. Again, see it again for the small progressions throughout the film. It's pretty cool. The physicality of Joe, you kind of alluded to this a little bit. I kind of, the only thing I resent is you gaining 40 pounds still is like looking better than me at my peak.

You're a jerk for that, but other than that. But why was it, I mean, I get why it's necessary, but explain to us like why the body, why alter your body in that way and how Joe's physicality informed your approach to the character? Yeah. Todd and I, we had a few conversations, not so much about what Joe would look like, but what he would feel like. And being a suburban dad, having a full-time job, having three kids, there's really not too much time for Joe to find comfort in like taking a CrossFit class or something. So, you know, that kind of, those kind of discussions that Todd and I were having really

informed just the natural progression of just where I went with the physicality and, you know, the sense of, you know, Joe doesn't like to take up space, you know, he's very, he's preverbal, like there's a lot of repression in his body. So just kind of diving into that and understanding how that could just live in the body and how you can tell that story. Because, you know, he's, you know, if you see a guy in the corner of the room with his shoulders hunched, just kind of like standing to himself, keeping to himself, there's some sort of, oh, is that person okay? You know, that kind of thing. So, but that just came naturally with just the script and then just trusting Todd. And Todd just really encouraging me. Don't Miss Swipe. A new movie inspired by the provocative real life story of the visionary founder of online dating platform, Bumble, played by Lizzie. Lily James, Swiped introduces recent college grad

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Eligibility restrictions apply. See Golden Nuggett Casino.com for details. Please play responsibly. Natalie and Julie, I mean, on set, it was, you know, there's so much awe. But then I'm like, all right, Charles, like, you have to, focus. Tell Joe's story. You can fan out later. Just focus. Ask about boogie nights later.

Right now, I got to work. It was so, I felt so just encouraged by them. Just masters of their craft legends. And just, you know, I felt so safe and protected to just really let go. Okay, it's official. We are very much in the final sprint to election day. And face it, between debates, polling releases, even court appearances. It can feel exhausting, even impossible to keep up with. I'm Brad Milkey. I'm the host of Start Here, the Daily Podcast from ABC News. And every morning, my team and I get you caught up on the day's news in a quick, straightforward way that's easy to understand with just enough context so you can listen, get it, and go on with your day. So, kickstart your morning. Start Smart with Start Here and ABC News,

because staying informed shouldn't feel overwhelming. I know this Brad has just seen the film, but if you'll indulge us, I think a lot of this, all of this is worthy of a second look. I want to look at one scene in particular. That's fantastic. It is one of the scenes in the mirror, the makeup scene, for lack of a better term,

there's so much I love about that scene. It's like you don't even, like, are they about to kill each other? Are they going to have sex? Are they going to be best friends? We have no idea. It could go anyway. And the pauses, like the pregnant pauses.

And I guess how much of that can't be scripted? I mean, you have the script, but you don't know, but that has to be just an organic feel that you guys find in the moment, I assume, right? Absolutely. Absolutely. I think it was very, the script was very inspiring because there was so much. all of the meaning was between the lines and so it fed that kind of meaningful silence and it's it's really like the for me the most devastating scene in the in the movie

because it feels which was really revealed itself to me while we were doing it I didn't realize it on the page but it felt like all about mother trauma right that like that line those those lines where she says what was your mother like And then this long wait, and then she was beautiful. Like everything that's unsaid there, like that's what you have to say about your mother while they're putting on makeup this extremely performative feminine thing

and looking at themselves in the mirror, this like tool of oppression for women, you know? Like, it's so heavy and so, and they see each other in a way that I don't think they do before that. Like it's this really, moment of connection. Yeah, and Gracie's literally saying to her,

let me put my face on you. You know, she's like, this is my makeup, that I do, it's all kind of very basic, this feels silly, and then to say, like, let me do this for you, you know, and you know, I didn't remember, I didn't remember I touched your hair for so long. That was something that came up, and this is the kind of stuff that happens when you were working.

You know, we had to get Natalie's wig out of her face, right? And there's this whole thing about how I couldn't go back into a ponytail and blah, blah, blah. And there's all this discussion about this. And I said, I'll just push it back. I'll do it myself in the scene. And now watching it just now, I'm like, I spent a lot of time. Because I love Natalie. And I think in the doing of it, what was interesting,

what was just a technical thing initially becomes part of the scene. Because as I did it, it felt really intimate. And it felt like Gracie's saying, like, let me feel what you're like, you know. So sometimes stuff just comes up like that. Sure. And it happens, and that's the kind of the joy of doing it. It just is a surprise. Did you know what his musical choices were going to be?

Was he playing that for you on set, guys? Yeah, he played it early on before certain scenes, and it just kind of really set the atmosphere and the tone of... What about the camera moves, too? Like, how aware are you as... Do you want to know, like, when the camera... is moving, like the zooms, etc., or does that impact your performance? I'm very aware of where the camera is.

I need to know. I feel like that's the part of the storytelling, you know? It's like, and in this case, in this scene, you know, there's no mirror there. There's camera lens and there are marks that we're looking at. So we know where we're looking and we need to know because we're part of that construct. You know, I think that, and I think with someone who, as talent, as Todd who's telling an intricate,

you know, complicated story. You have to know. You need to be a part of that language. Right. Because you're, you know, that's how it's going to inform your own work. What do we think happens after the final frame of this film

to Joe and Gracie? Are they, you guys must have talked about this. You must have. No. No? No. No. No. No.

I did my part. I have to wait for the sequence. Exactly. Another franchise, here we go. But you know what's wonderful? And somebody was asked me about this the other day too. And I think that we all have an instinct as human beings. We love narrative because there's the beginning and a middle and an end.

And we're like, oh, that's what happened. And in life, of course, we don't have that until someone dies. That's the only time you have the narrative is over. That's when it's finished. And with movies, we tend to be very satisfied. We're like, the end, like that. And it's like you breathe out. And with this movie, and with a lot of Todd's movies,

it's almost like it ends on an inhale. Right. And then the audience is left having to exhale on their own. So I don't want to get superstitious about, you know, the awards kind of side of this. It's just beginning. And hopefully you guys are going to be at a lot of fun, silly awards shows throughout the season,

well-deserved in advance. Congratulations. But, you know, it occurs to me, like Charles is starting to experience this for the first time. And you guys, I think we have eight Oscar nominations two awards between the two of these actresses here, two truly the best. What would you like to have known way back when

about kind of going through that process, your first nominations of just sort of like how to enjoy it, how to accept the wonderful insanity that is accolades? Cheers. I don't know. I mean, I feel like, I think it's changed a lot over time.

I think the really exciting thing, young Charles, is that you spend, end up spending a lot of time by the end of it with the most amazing people in the creative community. And you develop kind of a rapport with people, because you're just at these events for like six months together, and you end up getting to be at. round tables and cocktails and dinners and if you can actually take advantage of it and like

actually have a conversation with someone which is very hard in those surroundings but like it can be really meaningful and lead to you know later friendships and stuff right and I think also the fact that it you know we we tend to make everything a competition or a race in our culture and it becomes about that and and that you don't want that to supersede what's happening, which is that people are celebrating each other's work. And that's wonderful. It's wonderful to be with your peers and have people say I really enjoyed that performance. And I think that's the thing that you want to lean into. Are you more excited about your fantasy football team season right now or award season? I'm doing pretty good in my fantasy football. I made a big comeback. I started off not to, not with a losing record.

But you're turning it around? Yeah. Go eagles. I have a challenge for you guys, because the two actresses sitting next to me have played some of the greatest roles in the last 25 years, I would say. I'm going to read you a line. You tell me if you said it or you're a co-star here. Let's see if you can finish the line. These are pretty easy, I think. I believe the characters we read on the page become more real. That's from Jackie.

I don't know what the rest of all. Like flush it out, right? Yeah. Shoot, it's then the men who stand beside us. Okay. Thank you. Yeah. I didn't give you the line reading, but I gave you the actual line.

Who the fuck are you? Who the fuck do you think you are? Oh. That's the drugstore scene in Magnolia. Don't call me lady. Don't call me lady. It's a male myth about feminists that we hate sex. It's a zesty enterprise.

The Velvowski, everybody. Come on. The best. I felt it perfect. It was perfect. It's black swine. Definitely is black swan. Let's see.

I'm not afraid to die. not afraid to die. I've been dying a little bit each day since you came back into my life. That's, that's, that's me. That's you. But, like,

you know, do you need a hint? Is it V? No, fuck. It's a film, a few people in here probably have seen a thousand times. Oh my God. Is it Star Wars? It's Star Wars. Oh, my God.

I'm like, no one said it. It's Attack of the Clones. Okay, thank you. No problem. And yes, I'm an expert. You're welcome, everybody. We're going to go to some audience questions in a little bit. But the happy, say, I confused, profoundly random questions.

What do you guys collect? Does anybody collect anything here? Furniture. I like that. I like furniture. Okay. Yeah. Charles, I like sneakers. Nice.

Yeah. I have a few first edition books. Not a big collection. Oh, she's fancier than others. I mean, furniture's fancy. Come on. Have you ever asked for an autograph or a photo from, oh, you have, not only. Yeah.

From who? I, when I was a kid, I waited in line. for Gregory Heinz and Lily Tomlin at separate shows I was like really yeah

I waited for a while for both of them anyone Shaquille O'Neal that's awesome LeBron Tyson Chandler sensing a pattern

yeah like what I'm sensing a pattern yeah I think most basketball players. And I usually have my son with me, I have to say. It was I chased LeBron down a court once going, LeBron, LeBron, LeBron, LeBron, LeBron, LeBron. Now, are you pretending it's for your son or is it actually for your son? It was for both of us, okay? Anyone that you've ever? Or who would you? Jalen Hertz. He's the quarterback for the Philadelphia.

What's the wallpaper on your phone? Anybody here want to cop to? What's the wallpaper on their phone? Oh, I'll pass on that. Wow. So many questions. Anybody? My daughter did one of those, like, custom things,

and it's got, like, candies and smiley faces and all sorts of different, I don't know. Yeah. Great. Okay. Last actor you were mistaken for? Cura Nightly all the time. You're like today, yesterday, five years ago.

Very flattered, but it's a constant, yeah. Have you ever signed a Cura Nightly photo? No. No, I, yeah. No, I have not. Gillian Anderson. Oh, yeah. They think they're like, you're like, you're in that David Dukonny show.

No. A, it's not on anymore. B, no. No. Anyone jump out? Not really. Not Damon. Obviously.

I get it. Totally. What's the worst note a director has ever given you? What's the worst note a director has ever given you? Oh. Julianne went there. She's got it. I had it.

It was a criticism. It wasn't really a note. Well, it was kind of a note. was somebody told me that my face wasn't moving anymore and we've been shooting in the middle of the night in 30 degree weather. And he was like, what's the matter with you?

You're not moving your face at all. Wow. It's a tough one. Anyone? I did this. This was like for a commercial that never came out. But we were freezing cold. It was for yogurt.

And we were in, the water was freezing. And I was shaking. And he was like, can you stop shaking? Can you stop shaking? I was like, I couldn't stop shaking. Yeah, probably the worst note. You're okay. A good one from Milo Schoormann, which was also just like, in the best.

He was like, you're acting like this is a bad movie. But this is not a bad movie. This is a good movie. I was like, I love this. The accent also helps. In the spirit of the name of my podcast, Happy Second Fuse, who's an actor that always makes you happy. You see them on screen.

You're instantaneously feeling good. Julia Roberts. Steve Carell. Very good. Steve Harrell's good. Maybe Wolf Arrow. Also a producer on this movie. That's right.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Movie that makes you sad, always. My girl. Is that the bees? Yeah, I remember when she's like at the funeral and she's like, he doesn't have his glasses, he can't see without his glasses. I'm like, oh, God, it's so sad. It makes me sad.

The way we were? Sure. That always makes me sad. Yeah, that's a good one. We gave you the most time, Charles. It's not a crier. Not a crier. Oh, no, I'm a crier.

I'm just thinking maybe up. Oh, God. Pixar always knows it, right? Oh, I can't even watch that. It's so sad. It's really a good test if you're an actual human being to watch the first 20 minutes. Up. Yeah.

No, yeah. Food that always makes you confused. You see it on the menu. You don't get it. What is up with this? Why do people like this? Mashed potatoes. Why do people like mashed potatoes?

It's just mush. It's just mush. I love. It's like, I know. People love it. They love them. It's just mashed, mush. Is it consistency?

Is it the... All of it. Wow. Yeah. I have a problem with fruit and salad. Oh. Not into it. Right.

Like, I like fruit salad. Right, but I don't want like... strawberry and a savory salad with fruit in that bothers me yeah never seen you so enraged it's crazy I don't like blue cheese oh oh what is what I don't like oatmeal oh you could say anything you would be cheering yeah what do you do you do you do Okay, let's go to some questions from the audience. The final scene is a powerful one, and I would be interested to understand

how it felt to experience it both as Natalie and as Elizabeth. What do you call shooting the final scene? Well, first of all, it was to hold it a real snake, was a real surprise. Somehow I didn't think about it when I read the script that there was going to be a snake actor alongside us. And then this young actor who also, it was very uncomfortable because of course the story is so dark,

but at least we get to have the fast forward 20 years later, he's an adult, but then to actually have this kid and have this scene. And then also, I mean, Sammy's writing for the scene is so like you kind of realize that this whole time all of this buildup has been for like this, like it doesn't feel like this great work of art and I think it helps add to this question of like, you know, what is, is it really worth interfering in people's lives and how does the depiction of people's lives justify the, you know, the effect of that telling their story for them. So it was incredible to shoot and, you know, I love. Todd's construction of it with this kind of one long take. Right. It was really fun to play. Do you think Elizabeth is a very good actor? What's your assessment of her acting ability?

I'll let you judge. This is from Natasha for Julianne. What stylistic choices did you make when conceptualizing this character versus what was on the page? Oh, that's a good question, because it really was a physicalization. And like I said, the decisions in making that were twofold. They were, you know, I wanted to give Natalie something to work with. That was really important. And Todd and I talked about that early on because you can't just show up and do nothing

and then have somebody, you know. So in searching for that, I was like, well, what would be true to her? And I found this kind of this idea of this childlike presentation and this hyperfemininity. And so those were, you know, so I sort of leaned into that and it was interesting, it was an interesting process searching for them because the vocal choice felt big and risky. You know, I was concerned about it and Todd and I discussed it for a long time. And then we just said, and I was like, okay, there we go. Well, and again, like because the quickness of the shoot, it's like you have to just like make that kind of big choice on day one and there's no going back. No. You're in it. Yeah. We were talking about the scene at the mirror.

Arder wants to know how many takes did it take to film? It wasn't very many. I think we maybe did like four or something. I mean, it was very technically complicated what Julie was doing, especially because there were like two sets of makeup that were hers and mine. Our makeup artists were very concerned about hygiene. about hygiene which we appreciated so it's like I'm putting on you know below the frame there's all this makeup that belongs to me that my makeup artist uses on me so I'm putting that on myself but then as I as I do Natalie's makeup I have to

switch my hands to the other sponge I put this sponge out and pick up her sponge and I get her makeup and I go like that and honestly most of the time I was just thinking about getting the makeup on her face getting the right make up and also getting the right saturation on her lips in time so she could so when we turn into the mirror we both have on the same same kind of density of lip color so and then we also had the marks on the mirror which was not a mirror with the camera but there's like an X for where we're supposed to be looking at ourselves and another X for where we're supposed to look at each other trying to figure out like

you know and appropriately look at ourselves and you know the other character and while, you know, talking about our systemic relative is in our mother-trauma, another easy day at the office. Well, it must be exceptionally rare to like stare down the barrel and do like a scene like that for an act. Yeah, it's kind of the extreme practice of what we always have to do, which is like accept that there's a camera and a crew

and you're not in a real space like to absorb that artifice. Right. Marianne wants us to know for Charles. We can kind of address this a bit, but it was so incredible to see you in such a complex new role. How did you prepare for the role of a young father? Ooh. Joe's a good dad.

What do we think of him as a dad? It's kind of sweet to see him with his. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. He's a great dad. You know, when I found out that Gabriel and Lizzie and Piper book the role when they came into Savannah, I would invite them over, and we would watch movies and I'd order them pizza

they would come over and do the laundry at the house I would pick up Gabriel, take them to the movies and it's kind of cool when you I always have people that are like oh you've never seen this and they're so excited to watch something like you know vertigo for the first time with me so I kind of had that experience with them

I'm like you haven't seen Fight Club or you haven't seen The Godfather like oh my gosh let's watch this So, and I think all those things naturally, I think, just, you know, informed along with the work that I did just, you know, when we came to set and there's that, you know, kind of comfort. I mean, again, we kind of, we've talked about the quickness of the shoot and you've kind of referenced like, you know, working with the likes of these actors and Todd. Like, did that almost help you in a way because, again, from day one, you, there's no adjusting. You kind of just have to commit and be comfortable in your own skin in playing this character and following Todd's lead, I would assume. Yeah, I felt very, you know, from the get-go of meeting Natalie and Julie, and just with Todd's guidance, like, I just felt immediately just by being with them just elevated.

Like, I felt... They say you belong, so you belong. club. Yeah, yeah, and yeah, and I just felt, you know, I was like, I have to give everything I have, I can to just work as hard as I could. And just, you know, and, you know, I've seen, you know, interviews with, I haven't told them this, with Julian. When they're just talking about certain things, and they talk about preparation. And like, I took from that and just prepared as best as I could and as much as I could. And then just. Just. just completely just let it go with them. Amazing. From Warren, for all of you guys, how do you get in the mindset of such troubled, traumatized characters without bringing that home with you?

You go to compartmentalized? I'm very compartmentalized. I think that having children, honestly, you know, is very helpful with that. I mean, it's like, and then also knowing that, like, I, you know, I love my, work and I think that you, like I said, knowing where the camera is, I was talking to somebody who was talking about being overwhelmed by things emotionally and when they worked. And I said,

you know, it really helps me to know that there is a camera there. There's a camera there. There's an operator and there's a dolly grip and you know, you see the lights everywhere and you see everybody else. And so it's like you, I like to have the process of creation with all of these other people because I can invest myself emotionally and intellectually I can see everything is going. There's a duality to what we do and I think it's really, really

important to know that and to invest in that. I think there's a mythology about actors getting lost in things and it's not helpful. It really isn't. It's a creative construction and I think you need to know that. I always get really upset when I hear actors say, well now I really know

what it's like to do X, Y, and Z. You don't. right. We're pretending. We get as close as we can. It's a facsimile, right? Your storytelling, and that's really, really important. That doesn't mean that you don't feel things in your body because you want to, but your mind has to know that it's not the same. So you must have encountered the actors that go that route, and is that tricky for you to kind of, they've got their process,

it works for them, but I know it can wear on a crew also when folks to that kind of extreme. Has that been tricky for you to navigate folks that come out differently than you? Yours seems to be the healthy, intellectual, emotionally to it. I will say that. People's process are they process? You know, I mean, you can't, that's not something

that you do anything about, yeah. Does what Julianne says resonate with you, guys? Have you always been able to kind of, like, was that a lesson learned early on and kind of not taking work home with you? Yeah, I think I think it's always been important

and that was something that I felt so close to Julie immediately and Charles that I think we all have very similar things that we're very focused and you know when we're in it we're in it and then when we're out we're out and and it feels safe

it's actually similar to one of the lines that Sammy wrote when Elizabeth is talking to the students and she's like you know you don't You don't know if you're feeling pleasure, you know, pretending that you're feeling pleasure or pretending that you're not feeling pleasure. It's like I could say all of those manipulative, horrible things to Julianne

because I knew that in real life I loved her. You know, like it allows, you have to be aware of the artifice at the same time as you're doing it in a way. So now are all veterans of the Todd Haynes experience here in the five-timers club with Todd. What do you say to fellow actors? What is the Todd Haynes experience like? I assume you would recommend to anybody.

It's dream. I mean, you know, I think that it's pretty evident to everybody who works with him that he's just one of the greats, you know, one of the great directors, one of the great storytellers and also a tremendously wonderful human being. There's a lightness to Todd, you know, and a joyfulness and a sense of humor.

and he elevates us all with his work. I mean, the proofs in the pudding we see it in every film he's done. How does this change you going forward? You're spoiled, man. You just leveled up with the best in the business. Does this kind of, I don't know, it must change your philosophy on the kind of career you want to have or change your aspirations,

or tell me kind of where your head's at coming out of this experience. I'm just, I feel a lot of gratitude. you know, and I just go back to like the gift of those 23 days that I got to spend with Natalie and Julie and Todd in Savannah, Georgia, you know. In my career, it's the best experience that I've had, and that's the cake. The good news is you've got to spend more than 23 days on the best process. So the events like this and enjoying each other's company. The movie is fantastic, guys.

May December, it's on Netflix, like, in like two minutes, basically. midnight. By the time you guys listen or watch the podcast, it's out on Netflix. Give it up for Charles Melton, Julianne Moore, Natalie Portman made us number. Thank you so much. Thank you very much. Thank you very much.

And so ends another edition of happy, sad, confused. Remember to review, rate, and subscribe to this show on iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm a big podcast person. I'm Daisy Ridley, and I definitely He wasn't pressured to do this by Josh.

I'm Amy Nicholson, the film critic for the LA Times. And I'm Paul Shear, an actor, writer, and director. You might know me from The League, Veep, or my non-eligible for Academy Award role in Twisters. We love movies, and we come at them from different perspectives. Yeah, like Amy thinks that, you know, Joe Pesci was miscast in Goodfellas, and I don't. He's too old. Let's not forget that Paul thinks that Dude, too, is overrated. It is.

Anyway, despite this, we come together to host Unspool, a podcast where we talk about good movies, critical hits. Fan favorites, must-season, and case you misdums. We're talking Parasite the Home Alone. From Greece to the Dark Night. We've done deep dives on popcorn flicks. We've talked about why Independence Day deserves a second look. And we've talked about horror movies, some that you've never even heard of like Ganges and Hess. So if you love movies like we do, come along on our cinematic adventure.

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