Happy Sad Confused - Natasha Lyonne

Episode Date: December 3, 2024

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Jennifer Coolidge saw me at the Chateau Marmont and I had straight hair and she thought I was Hillary Duff and I was so confused. I was like, maybe I've become too well because whatever I'm projecting is something I've got to scratch real quick. I have lost my edge.

Prepare your ears, humans. Happy, sad, confused begins now. How's it going, everybody? Welcome. Thank you so much for being here tonight. I'm Josh Horowitz and today on happy, say I confused. We're live at the 92nd Streetwide with the one and only Natasha Leon. Yes. This audience in New York City has just seen a remarkable new film. His three daughters. It's on Netflix right now, but they got a chance to see it on the big screen and I think you'll agree. It's a very special piece of work. So thank you for sharing your holiday weekend with this extraordinary film. I'm not going to say much about Natasha. because this is truly an actor, a creator that needs very little introduction, an amazing filmography, especially the last few years, let's just talk about Natasha as an actor, a writer, a creator, a producer, Russian doll, poker face, she's killing it. And as you can see in this film, also just an amazing actor and another great contribution.

And by the way, Upper East Side's own, Natasha Leone. coming home tonight. So please give a warm welcome to the one and only Natasha Leone, everybody. Here she comes. Here she is. Dramatic applause. Look at that. There she is. There she is. How are you? That's you. She's come home. Welcome home, Natasha. What do you mean by home, Josh? Upper East Side. This is your stomping grounds, no? Yeah, with some difficulty. Scholarship kid.

I actually don't mind Lexington. Okay. It's really those Park Avenue, Fifth Avenue. I guess not Madison. I'm not even that mad at, but I don't like Park and I don't like Fifth. Right. Those... What about numbers?

Doorman, mansion, you know, old money. Because my mother and I were more York Avenue. The wrong side. the wrong side of park, but Lex was always a bit neutral, and I like that it had this subway. Yes. No, these are important considerations. Thank you for sharing not only this film, but your holiday weekend with us. Of course. What does Natasha Leone Thanksgiving look like? What are the traditions in your life? Is it an important holiday for you? Very important. It's the day I listen to the new

Kendrick Lamar album while reading what am I reading? It's like a Dow of Physics or something and there's also a

workbook. Carlo Rovelli White Holes there's another one I was reading also that'll come to me later and so that was a nice day

for me in bed I was invited to something in Brooklyn my godmother did one in Murray Hill. They were a couple of others. God, it was terrific to just stay in bed

and read my little quantum physics. My brain goes white noise, which I like, because it's above me. You know what I mean? I don't really understand, but I love that. Did you come out fully formed like this?

Was Natasha Leone as a child, like at four years old, is this approximately the same person? Do you mean that I'm dressed like Phyllis Diller? Because I'll have you know this is Valentino, baby. It does seem a little bit like I'm getting ready for a number of the Catskills.

One time somebody told me that I should do a Tote Field's biopic. I took that personally. I'll be honest. Joan Rivers, you know what I mean? Betty Davis late in life on Johnny Carson, like this. Even Lena Wirtmuller, I do. But of the women

who lost Lillian, to diabetes, terrible condition, of course. Yes, I would sooner do Susan Terrell of Fat City than Tody Fields, and nothing against her. But, yes, other cat skills players I would do sooner. Almost a bit of Carol Channing, I would say, going here. Right. Were you...

At four years old, fully formed? An extrovert as a child? What would your friends and family have described you as? I actually think that, surprisingly, an introvert, it's just that once activated sort of a merry prankster. So it's because you guys are here, even though I know it's only 120 out of 180. Now, I'm not taking that personally. I'm just sort of a numbers guy. I don't mean like the penguin.

I just mean sort of mathematics. The music of the spheres and so on. So, yeah, it's weird. Like, where are those other 60? Anyway, but thank you guys for coming. Yeah, and they could have been at Wicked or Gladiator. They chose us. I mean, or they could have done a sort of wicked gladiator matinee.

Anyhow, so... Extrovert child, not so much. Well, my family of origin, mother, father, older brother, I think that they were so living out loud that as the youngest, I was weirdly like the witness, the cataloger. Often I'll hear Spielberg, who is a one-to-one comp with me, as you must have noticed. You know, but he'll talk about that in his childhood sort of, but I was always sort of cataloging scenes, almost like I was setting them to music, little vignette. Some say that that's a, you know, like a trauma coping mechanism, or that thinking that you should be in the CIA

is more like the hypervigilance of a child where, anyway, good things. And so I do think that I was a little bit of an introvert and a witness, but I just, I do love human connection, and I love sort of like the magic, almost like the spirituality of a third place, that exists with jokes. So, even with the deli guy or something, the idea of having that superpower where you can say something in a rhythm

and it causes an effect is so joyful for me that I think that's probably my most extrovert quality. And it was alive by six, I would say. I asked your friend and collaborator, Ryan Johnson, how he'd describe you to an alien? This is how he responded.

He said, he'd begin to describe you and the alien would interrupt and say, we go way back. Yes. I'd agree. And I'm so glad you asked him the right question. Yeah.

I think I'd do just fine on a well assuming, you know, it was terraformed and so on. Let's talk about, we'll circle back around to your amazing life and career, but let's talk about this fantastic film. His three daughters.

Often, often. Like, Sean Penn used to do that all the time with real cigarettes. Totally. He's the only person that ever did when I was doing my podcast in my office. He came into MTV, just started smoking totally against the rules, didn't give a shit. Yeah, well, those were the good old days. Were you smoking during this?

Because you have to smoke. I was, but I quit soon after. Lost my voice in the fighting scene. And I was like, oh, I'll just get steroid shots like I did for S&L. Carrie Coon, being a great theater actress, was like, no, no, you need to see somebody about that. Lizzie Olson, being the beautiful human being that she was, was like, no, no, you should see someone about them. And anyway, I love them very much, so I listened and quit smoking. But you see, now I'm smoking this rave device that I can't imagine is better for me.

That's pure health right there, sure. Peter O'Toole on Letterman. Was he smoking or he was just telling anecdotes drunk? I think the latter. Maybe both. Yeah. This film, you mentioned your co-stars. All of you guys are fantastic in this.

Parts written specifically with you in mind by Asa Jacobs, which is not necessarily the norm. I don't know if that's happened to you in the past. Was that something that took you by surprise? And when you saw what Aza had in mind for you, what was your reaction? Well, you know, move. I would say, what happened, honey?

You need a tissue? By and large, now that I've been doing this for 400 years, you know, I really do think it's about the quality of the people that you're working with. So when Aza had mentioned Carrie and Lizzie, it was just so special and specific, and it proved to be so. And, yeah, I mostly had people write for me or written for myself with some, you know, development there intentionally. So I was a little bit like, why don't I get to be the Carrie Coon part only because it would have felt, you know, like a stretch. I think I've always been a little bit disappointed in my career as an actor.

I always imagine that there was going to come a time of, like, merchant ivory, other things, accents, period pieces. So, you know. That could happen. Well, and so to open something and see that yet again it was sort of the pothead who was like a little bit out of remove, I think because of, you know, Russian doll and all that, I really wanted to find a way in that was totally different. And I think, in large part, my favorite thing about her was how little she spoke. Right. The first half of the movie, essentially, you are a bit of an observer. You're holding a lot back.

Yeah. And yet conveying a lot. So that does feel like it's a different challenge. Yeah. And I think I'm hyperverbal. Well, we don't talk about Kevin Spacey anymore. But his character was verbal? Yes.

And usual suspects? One of my favorite shots, that N-shot, those little foots. Yeah. I sometimes do impressions of that. Not everyone gets it. Not as popular anymore, but still effective. Still a great shot. So, yeah, I think I'm usually somebody who does large speech quickly.

And I loved the idea of listening and then getting very internal and sort of like dropping all facade. I think I often do that, you know, for love of the game. I hate whisper acting, which I think is a new disease. I won't name names. Conveying importance just simply by...

I fucking hate it. Like, I'm just like, please give... I want you to win your awards, but I can't watch this. Because sort of like, a Willem Defoe would never. Even though he seems sort of reserved, it would never happen. Emily Watson would never. You know, and Jack Nicholson in a five easy pieces even would just, it just wouldn't, and there does seem to be a modern disease on screen of like, you know, I don't blink and I talk down here. I hate it.

Entertain the troops, I think. So, but with Rachel, there was something about just being able to listen and let go of any facade. really question, you know, why? Why all those cigarettes? Surely it is a way of keeping some space between me and you because I'm just so sensitive, you know? I'm like so soft. So removing the sort of like harsh facade or even in a weird way the jokes and just listening. Yeah, I really liked that part. My sense is the making of this film is kind of the ideal. Like this is the kind of thing that you have probably always wanted to do. That just doesn't happen a lot. This is a short shoot, not to say that you want less time,

but it's down to business, 20 days. It's a personal story. It's, I don't know, talk to me about, like, does this feel like the platonic ideal of filmmaking for you? Is this, like, what kind of what you've been looking for as an actor for years? No. or I guess maybe once

you know as a teen reading Casabettis on Casabettis or you know sitting at the back of weirdly the new Beverly in L.A. with like a 40 I don't drink anymore obviously but maybe I should reconsider sitting in the back row

by myself every day and watching the full rundown you know, holy shit, many of Moskowitz, wow I love streams, holy shit. There was a time in my life where this was really it, or I'm seeing Catherine Cartlidge and David Thuleus and naked and really being like, this is what I want it to be about. Now, as a director and a writer,

and, you know, I think in part because of these merchant ivories and stuff, but I think I was always that guy. I was at Tisch for filmmaking, not drama. 15 years old. I double major with philosophy, so I'd have something to make movies about. And I don't think I really had a fantasy of being off camera. I think I was just looking at comps like Albert Brooks or something and feeling like, oh, that's what you do when you're sort of a fast-talkie New Yorker. You kind of mount your own. So now, though, I think my love of sci-fi, you know, I'm working with Ted Chang, who

obviously wrote the short story that Arrival is based on and I do quite like the idea of scale I feel like I'm 45 you know I've done I don't know maybe 200 indie movies maybe four of them

are watchable and this one is obviously magic I mean it's such a gift and you really feel it totally anonymous you know nobody knew about it no announcements 17 days and we just went all in a very special thing

and then to have that response from people by and large though yes I would at this age like to be wielding I don't know something more in the style of like a Catherine Bigelow or something you know I mean like a real a fucking movie movie that you can actually sit and watch yeah you were just in a movie movie

you shot Fantastic Four oh yeah yeah I mean although that really exists in its own framework entirely it's almost its own genre and was that a learning though to be a part of that giant machine I mean they they do things a very particular interesting way I would imagine yeah it was certainly interesting to witness um yeah was it a surprising phone call to get or you know what I'd love to do a

movie almost like well I guess he also fell out of fashion lupuson but doesn't make you remember when you remember when Gary Oldman like pops that pill in the professional, and you're like, what the fuck is happening? Like, a movie at that scale is something I would just love to write, direct, produce. I don't fucking care being it, you know? And then edit and, you know, create a score,

really market it, like the whole thing. That, to me, would be much closer to a fantasy. Like, that era of sort of filmmaking. Right. And also that it would have entertainment value and sort of this double resonance so that it would feel deeply personal, but also something that would hold over time. Well, I would imagine also you've kind of, you've had this experience, and any actor is lucky to have a few in their career when work succeeds in multiple levels. And you've had it in recent years with things like poker face and Russian doll where it becomes, it is personal, but it also, it reaches the masses.

And that's got to be kind of like on the television side of things, the ideal. Yeah, I think that I didn't, you know, I mean, I was a teenager for so long, maybe still. And so I don't think I knew. But now I sort of understand the purpose of scope. It's so significant, like, to actually have something reach an audience because it means something about connection happens, and then there's even an act of service that happens there. It's very fun.

Yeah. Yeah. Can we talk a little bit about the early acting experiences? I mean, the one that jumps out on the resume very early on, and must have been a formative experience, is working with Paul Rubens on Pewey's Playhouse. Did Paul stay in your life? We lost him way too young. just about a year or so ago.

Yeah, Paul and I stay tight. And, I mean, I guess I would say that as a kid, as a New Yorker, I always wanted to be like De Niro and Scorsese or sort of like a Pacino figure, a Michael Mann, or, you know, a tough kid, a tough guy. We were very into Rocky in the house, the godfather, taxi driver. I'm talking like, you know, seven, eight years old. That's why I have that tough guy action. So it never really occurred to me that I was a comedy person.

But now, looking back, I'm like, oh, fuck. Paul Rubens, I'm going to drop another great name, Woody Allen. And I can see that there was a lineage of ending up so much with like Fred, Maya, Polar. Sort of I was really in that school somehow. And Paul really was the first. I love Paul Rubens and he was so kind to me always and I would go to his house

and towards the end he would even call me I guess he was doing this documentary that the Saftees were producing and he was like do you think I should really do it and it was such a you know that vulnerable turn that happens late in a life where I had asked him over the year

so much for help and advice and I was like, yeah, like, Paul, you're such a beautiful human being. You know, there's nothing that you couldn't expose. I think I believe in that a lot in a transparent life and that we're all so human that it would make it a lot safer to lie less. It's one of those people that, like, when he passed, you realized the effect he had on so many people because everybody came out of the woodwork saying,

oh, he sent me a birthday message every year. And he did that for like 10,000 people. Yeah. I mean, and they were really special. Like getting that Christmas card would mean so much, yeah. And on your birthdays, I was working, I'm dropping a positive name now. Carol Kane, we were working on a movie together, and maybe it was her birthday or mine. And it was so surprising to see.

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best. Really? You don't think it's a great movie? I'm like, I thought it was fine, but I was like, yo lady. It was a big swing at the time. I mean... Also, she wore a fur coat to the premiere, and I was like, please don't do this. Peter.

You were big in the 90s? Natasha Leone, number one on the call sheet of a movie that had Julia Roberts at the height of her powers, Edward Norton was just coming into his own. I mean, that cast was stacked. Stacked. And a lot of people

were actually cut. I don't know why I'm doing this, but I think Liv Tyler and Tracy Elman were cut, which was also like this shocking revelation about this business. It has nothing to do

with how gifted you are, da-da-da-da-da. It's like a lot of things have already been written. I think once I really transitioned into a showrunner, a producer, you know, rushing to all that shit,

like I started to really understand how much I'd mistaken about my experience as an actor thinking it was on you to choose me and realizing that actually you had something very specific in your mind as a writer that, yeah, I was never going to get that part of a bad girl with eyeliner on CSI Miami.

You know what I mean? It was just not going to happen. They had a totally different vision. In retrospect, that experience teach you something about being number one on a call sheet, about kind of being the one that people look to in a way. Yeah, I mean, it was an oddball one I'm now quite tight

well tight but Ed Norton has proven to be like such a lovely figure in adult life and at the time I remember being very challenged by him because

I was number one on the call sheet but the only non-famous person in that movie and so just things like for example now I love Drew Barrymore but I'll never forget the first time meeting her I looked up to her so much

what was that movie girls on the side or something Boys on the side. Ah, boys. It's one out of two. And for some reason in my mind, it was sort of like the first movie star I met who was not 5-11, but was actually like 5-2. And she was just so cozy, and she was like, oh, I love you, and hugging and sort of

Beatles songs, but she seemed so tough externally, meaning they were all so famous. And I remember one time Ed Norton sort of, Woody said something to me. It was outside Harry Winston's before our musical number. A classic. And my baby just cares for me. And Woody said something. We'd worked together a lot already. And then Ed said something to me.

So what he means is, and I looked up at him at like, you know, 15, like, who the fuck do you think you're talking to? This guy's Woody Allen. I'm all good, primal fear. And so it was weird in that sense that I was. number one but sort of at the bottom of the heap relative to it I mean to your point he had made like one movie in fairness but at the same time it was you know yeah it was just very educational very intimidating and just so special a couple years later

slums of Beverly Hills which is an important one and and Tamara Jenkins has actually come up here a bunch in recent discussions Catherine Hahn was here we talked about Private Life, which is another great movie. You know, I'm so grateful for that movie. I love Tamara so much, and Alan Arkin and

from Holtz I just worked with. He's on the season of Pokerface and so is Kevin Corgan and Adam Arkin is the producing director. I remember the other book from Thanksgiving. It's a Nick Bostrom follow-up to super intelligence. I'd say it's not as

reader-friendly. But, yeah, I just, I love Tamara so much. She continued to be somebody that, you know, she was an East Village person. Recently she moved to Brooklyn, a big mistake. And, but when she had a kid and stuff, I'd be like, oh, I'm going to be okay because of her. And she had to work so hard. I was spending a lot of time with Mike Rappaport and Kevin Corrigan at the time. So my New York accent was very intense.

When I get nervous, it gets more intense. And she would always be pulling that back. and my god did I love Alan Arkin I loved him so fucking much the Russians are coming the Russians are coming classic you have a thing for lovable curmudgins and I feel like he's one

he's the Peter Falk Alan Arkins of the world they fit into the box set I guess oh yeah and just so so funny so honestly just so good at what he fucking does and then Carl Reiner Rita Moreno and I still am very close immersed

Tom May. Oh, right, Jessica Walters. I mean, it's a, I just, I'm so grateful that that movie exists. Like, because, you know, we all die at the end of the movie, so I'm glad I can leave that behind. The, um,

a much different kind of a movie that got you a lot of attention, a lot of the young actors, is something like American Pie, which, I don't know, for someone like you, does that feel like you might as well be in Lord of the Rings? It feels like an alien universe to... Oh, no, I'd much prefer to be in Lord of the Rings. I turned down that movie like five times at a sheer confusion, you know, because I was at Tish

by 15, so I had no tangible experience of, you know, going to like a white person high school and then doing like dates for prom. I had no idea what the movie was about, and I think that I was sort of morally against it. That said, Chris and Paul White's are lovely. I think I also have never really enjoyed the idea of like, you know, these are the hot chicks and you are other. I'm like, that's not that fun, guys. And now, you know, with 400 years between me and the film, I can see that it's very interesting that it touched a nerve for people and that they felt seen in it.

You know, I love Jason Biggs. I love Eddie K. Thomas very much. but yeah I was very confused by the film yes I'm going to rattle off a couple other films you just tell me first thing that comes to mind doesn't have to be long up to you have nine minutes left no we've got about half an hour still oh what's that clock trying to do oh it's the actual time in the United States right now

yeah well not all of the United States that's fair she's right she's right um scary movie two what's the first thing that comes to mind what you say Scary movie, too. Well, you know, there's a big story there. So, first of all, I do love Kenan Ivory Wains. That said, when I got that call, I was like, what kind of a bum do I look like? And they said, hold the role.

It's you and Marlon Brando because he was going to be playing Max von Seedau. Right. To my Linda Blair, I said, say no more. as it turned out when he arrived on set and by the way there's so many people I love in that movie you know it's really like yeah Regina Hall

oh yeah she's a fucking that's a major person and anyway Brando shows up I still have it on VHS he has an oxygen tank and an earpiece and I'm wearing full prosthetics

and I have to say things like your mother sucks, cocks, and hell. And there's a delay when he responds, you know, and says, you know, the power of Christ compels you. And, yes, it was such a special day. And...

That didn't make the final cut. No, because, I mean, I would be curious. You maybe could find out. I don't have Google. Was that his last movie? It might be. It's certainly towards the end. Yeah, I'm not sure.

We find out? Yeah, someone get on Google. I've wondered this before. But then, you know, well, the puzzle comes out, the crossword puzzle, and I move on to other things. But I think it maybe was his last film. And, yeah, the next day he was not. there. James Woods was. As soon as he saw me, full into Blair makeup, he was like, oh, so you're a spinner. And I was like, what does that mean? But I was a big fan of his.

I mean, casino? Oh, great actor, no doubt. Is that him in Videodrome? Yeah. I mean, fucking A. Politics, a real doozy. I like that we're just bringing up canceled people today. We're really rattling them all. Yeah, well, I mean, we all know the same information doesn't mean they don't exist anyway and Andy Richter was there who I adore and so yeah it's mostly for me about the VHS copy yeah yeah I got yeah but the footage doesn't really hold because there's a lot of spaces between things I should maybe do a little edit on it right yes yes for the legend of Brando yes I couldn't believe that I got a chance to work with him though

Did you have a moment to revel in Apocalypse Now stories, or no, it was just not. I don't think he was really there at that time in his life. But in my mind, surely. You've probably never been asked about Blade Trinity. Is there anything to say about Blade Trinity? Well, David Goyer, the writer-director, had also done this other film called ZigZag. ZigZag also had Wesley Snipes. It had John LeguZamo and Oliver Platt as my pimp.

and Wesley was so fucking extraordinary in this movie it was a real indie film tiny and then on Blade Trinity it was so funny I'd never seen somebody do this he had a tattoo double

a profile double a body double and he would really he would do his close-ups but he's so fun to act with but on the reverse yeah he wouldn't be there and it was just so wild

because on ZigZag, he was fully present. I think he and Goyer or something that happens. Like, they're not clicking. I don't know. I think he was just really exercising and getting his tattoos on. And the other thing that was so special about that movie was, I remember I had straight hair and little glasses

and I was trying to be a blind scientist. I don't know that I had fully put in the work. And so when I went outside in Canada, wherever we were, probably Vancouver, I smoked a cigarette with Chris Christopherson, and I had straight hair, and he said, oh, you're a real Janice Chaplin type, huh? And I was like, what are you talking about? You know, I had straight hair.

And there was something very moving about not having fooled him. You saw the real you. Yeah, I just, that moment alone was worth the price of admission. I'm not sure I've ever seen the film, I should say. You've got the memories. It's okay. You've got Chris Christopherson memories. The second act of your career, jumping ahead,

which begins on the stage back here in New York, correct? So obviously, if they have Google, they can check out some issues that you dealt with in the middle part of your life. I have no idea what you were talking about. You make this remark. I dropped out. I had six children.

I started a farm to table, and I did good works. I wrote three novels. I think that's what he was referring to. That's what I'm talking about. But you make this long journey back, and you need the trust and empowerment of other people to give you opportunity. Who do you credit kind of with helping giving you a jumpstart in the second act of career? I mean, 100% Chloe 70, who really is my big sister, but essentially she vouched for me to Scott Elliott, who is running the new group, still is, for this Mike Lee play called 2,000 years. And, yeah, she really did that thing.

she vouched for me. I guess Darren Aronovsky had also written a letter about something else a little bit later. Hey, give her a chance just like Mickey Rourke and the wrestler, you know, like insurance policy stuff. Yeah, but it was really Chloe. Did it feel like in those early new experiences, like you were relearning or learning new skills, like you were starting from scratch? Yeah, fully. I mean, I had always done it as a child. It was never my dream. It was my parents' dream. You know, my dad wanted to be a boxing promoter. My mother was on point at a very young age, French woman.

So, you know, ballet and boxing. So they wanted to be famous. So I always felt like it was a very dirty thing. And, you know, it was a gift. So, but it was like being able to play music by ear. Coming back through the theater, like when I dropped out, I thought it was pretty, I thought it was pretty complete. And I would think about things like maybe I could get a job at NASA.

All right. I don't know anything about that. And the theater really retrained me. I mean, I got to work with like Ann Dowd, Ethan Hawke was very significant, Sam Gold, Tigers Be Still, Nora Ephron and Delia Efron, Carol Kane, Tyne Daily. And they were sort of like retraining me on something. else that I didn't totally understand. And, yeah, I kind of made it my own thing.

Just to say, I mean, I was a major movie person. Like, I mean, I'd gone to the film forum every day for like the quadruple feature. I knew all about, you know, pre-code Hollywood. I'd read every, you know, Sydney Lamet making movies, every Nick Ray. You know, I was interrupted. Like, I was really that guy and very much believing in film and writing and, you directing, I was just such a serious, it's in my bones type of person. But it did really allow me to have, you know, filmmaking altogether on my own terms.

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Alcohol and select markets. Product availability may vary by Regency app for details. Having said all that, how it is in your bones, I mean, the experience of finally getting to co-create, produce, really be the key creative force along with Leslie Headland and Amy on Russian doll. Must have been huge. I mean, it was really, you know, and I still think I'll probably do like a fire walk with me and then a Russian doll, the return.

You know, those characters don't die. Like, so I'm not too worried about it. If I had more time right now, I think I would actually spend some time on it. I just, well, you know, the business has really changed. It doesn't, you know, that sort of O-Toury kind of, you know, TV sort of had its moment. And I'm so lucky that I was on that wave. But, you know, you've got to give time time and not really rush it, I think. But Russian knowledge's thing that, I mean, we put together the all, like a first all-female

writer's room. I'd been writing iterations of it for years before. You know, I even got together with Leslie and Amy on it. You know, they weren't good, but they were at the beginnings of things. I'd always use Nadia sort of like Vakowski would use Harry Chanowski. I just decided based on Nadia Komenici. And I knew that there was a story there that I wanted to tell, something about being sort of like, you know, undead, all that jazz, all that stuff, or even the singing detective or even JoJo Dancer, your life is calling, or even the beginning of Once Upon the Time in America when he's getting that phone call in the opium den, looking back at a life, and putting together all of those women in that writer's room and really coming in

the first day with a, you know, Wilhelm Reich book, and it was not Logo Therapy. It was, oh, right, Victor Frankel, man searched for meeting, and I was like, it's a half-hour comedy. It's going to be sick, you know? I don't picture this, but like more Lou Reed. And, yeah, like reaching at the outer limits of our brains and sort of feeling that we were up against it and failing. And it was a magical thing.

And I remember just days where I would walk on, you know, writing, directing, producing, show, writing, story, holy shit. And chain smoking, over budget, COVID. And I would do that thing where I was like, you know, I'd heard about it. Obviously, I did go on a whole spiritual journey, walk about, whatever you want to call it, and drug addiction. But I would look down at my feet and all that stress, like walking onto the stage, and I really would have that moment where it would come over me. And I was like, holy shit, you're exactly where you're supposed to be, unlike almost anything else I've ever experienced. And it was very powerful.

Like, I'm just so grateful for that fucking show. It really, like, it let me know. It was also something about, I think I was very bullied as a kid in high school for being other, and the fact that people understood what I was up to and identified with it was so fucking healing. It meant so much to me, yeah. How's poker face season two going? Well, it's going great. We're almost really done now, I guess I'm directing the finale, and that'll do us.

Last year you directed Nick Nolte. Have you had a similar amazing moment? I mean, he's... And Terry Jones, who's extraordinary. Oh, my God, Nick Nolte was so fun. And Phil Tippett was there, and that was amazing. I loved it. This year, I guess, I directed a second episode, but I went first.

But Ryan directs the pilot technically, as he should. Oh, my God, and his episode is just bananas. It's so good. It's like the inside of Ryan's mind. and then yes I think this finale will be quite fun and I mean it's been a great season I mean we have so many like and there's just so many loves of my life in it

you mentioned all the actors that you came up with that became friends they're all popping up Chloe Gabby's in the season right Gabby Hoffman who's technically my oldest friend except for Evan but because Gabby was I guess like we're talking about Woody a lot tonight but it is the upper side. And

but yeah, so I think Gabby was like 12 and I was like 14, 15. So technically she's my oldest friend. Have you lost your eligibility? Meaning that I stayed in touch with over the years. Not, yeah. Yeah.

Have you lost your eligibility to be in a Knives Out movie since you've played Natasha Leone in a Knives Out movie? I would think it depends how many they make. Okay. Like I would think if he ends up making like 42 of them, I could see a reappearance. If three is the last one, I would say I'm not in it. Okay, the ship has sailed.

We're going to end here. The Happy Say I Confused profoundly random questions, Natasha. Are you ready? Do you say Happy Sad? This is the podcast you're on. I know you don't know it. Sure. Why not?

Big fan. Does it have ads? Does it have advertising? Yeah, we could advertise for your product here. Well, I mean, I don't own this thing. Red Bull? Yes, yes. Two things that I should be sponsored.

by Kevin, maybe you could help, or at least upon my death. Dogs or cats, Natasha? Oh, root beer is 14. That's my dog. Heidi was a Rottweiler I had, I loved. So smoky, Neapolitan Mastiff, much bigger as an adult than as a puppy. Tends to happen that way, doesn't it? Yeah. So I do love dogs, although I would say I'm allergic to cats. And if I was not, I mean, I do love a cat.

Okay. I really do. But I don't love that they have a litter box. I think it's disgusting. But yes. And I'm not a big fan of dogs in Manhattan. I think it's also sort of disgusting. Which aspect? It's sort of like wearing flip-flops in Manhattan. Like, what's wrong with you? This is the wrong location. You know what I mean? This isn't club med. There are plenty of places to do it, not here.

Cover your feet up. And so I feel that way about dogs in Manhattan. Like, what do you have walking through this muck? You know? Would David Dinkins walk around like this? I don't think so. I knew Dinkins would get a name check at some point tonight. Dickens always gets a name check.

And also, remember littering. Remember in the 90s you would get drunk, you were a teenager, and you would just like get some pizza on a paper plate with some cellophane and you just throw it out the window on your way downtown. Nobody remember? Yeah, you had to be there. It was New York.

But yes, I think always cover your toes. If you're in New York, it's disgusting. I think that's what I feel about. I love dogs in the open air. What do you collect, if anything? I would like the idea that I can't, could, you know, live in the house. I got you.

Yeah, no problem. Do you collect anything? Yeah, I actually collect a lot of, vintage Freemason stuff and often it can get you out of trouble because a real Freemason will think you are a Freemason potentially high level and they'll do things for you for example one time a used car dealership a car salesman and well I got into a little fender bender and I would say it was my fault and then when he got out of the car he

saw my Freemason secondhand pawn shop jewelry, and he said, I'm so sorry. I didn't realize that you were like a high priestess or something, and why don't you come with me back to the shop? I'll get you a new car. It was a Mercedes. I had Karen Black helped me buy it because I was already in a studio city or somewhere I didn't understand. And it was like a Joan Didian Mercedes, sort of like a banana colored.

I'd always wanted one. So I'm just saying that it was very helpful. and ever since then I've sort of continued to collect it and no interest in being a Freemason, a super sketchy group but it happens to be something that I collect

Yeah, yeah What's the wallpaper on your phone? Today it's root beer Often it is Diane Lane talking to Ray Winstone and ladies and gentlemen The Fabulous Staines and he says to her something like

you know, she says maybe I'm everything you always wanted to be and then he says in the middle panel a cunt and she says exactly and punk rock is hell and if you just leave your phone around yeah people don't fuck with you

yeah when I've seen Diane Lane and complimented her on the film she's always like not my favorite but if you say that to Laura Dern she's fine with it yes what's the last actor you were mistaken for does it ever happen really I was offered the Pacino part in Glen Gary Glenross

and I don't know it doesn't come up often I guess so maybe if I have straight hair oh yeah I remember once you know I dropped out for a while you know because I was writing all those novels and and Jennifer Coolie saw me at the Chateau Marmont, and I had straight hair, and she thought I was Hillary Duff, and I was so confused.

I was like, maybe I've become too well. And you know what I mean? Because whatever I'm projecting is something I got to scratch real quick. I have lost my edge. Hillary seems like a lovely person. And sometimes I'll look at pictures of her and be like, I think maybe this is a good thing.

I think they mean this kindly. How deep into the conversation did you get? Not very far. Jennifer moves quickly. She was sort of like, oh, I thought you were Hillary Duff. And I was like, I'm not. And it was over. But yeah, I would rather be mistaken for like, you know,

Keith Richards or something. But yes, I guess, well, I'm a Hillary Duff sort. You guys can see that. You're kind of the cross between Hillary Duff and Keith Richards. Yeah, sure. And finally, what's the worst noted director has ever given you. Not to bring it back to Woody, but I actually think this is a good note.

He would say, yeah, do it again, but don't put the audience to sleep. God, that would sting. Julia Roberts did not love that sort of thing either. We would talk about it, hug each other in the bathroom of the Gritty Palace crying. I really like her. She was the most movie star I'd ever met in my life. she had like, she was literally you could bask in her golden glow

and I guess it's very hard when directors tell you about the result that they want you know I think true directors sort of walk you there on accident like they almost tell you about a third thing over here like a magic trick and they get you sort of focused over here

and the next you know it's like you're crying suddenly in the middle of a comedy scene and you don't know how you got there. They have a sort of superpower like that. Otto Preminger sort of would do that with Gene Seaburg, but not kindly. He did burn her at the stake. But I do think that some of the greats really were sort of like master, almost manipulators,

for lack of a better term, because I do think it's a, they were maybe sick in the ways they went about it, but they would systematically get you to a different location, almost to like shake you out of sometimes it's a, it's like an actor's disease that you'll start doing it musically in the same way that you've done it before. And whenever you hear your voice switch as an actor, like if you show up in an audition and you're like, hey, nice to meet you, I'm Natasha. And then you're saying action, you're like, hi, so, you know, I'm Mary from the store, great dialogue. So you can tell right then that you've lost the plot and somehow to like kind of bring you back.

I don't hate, I've worked with Jody Foster as a director and she did line readings and I thought it was fascinating because I was like, oh, she was probably so young that this came up and nobody told her that it was not normal and I actually liked it from her because I was like, no, no, I'd rather know how Jody was going to do this and how I'd do it. But yeah, sometimes it's a little bit interesting

but sometimes they're wrong. I've also had other I won't name names an 80s brat pack figure directed me in something I was like well maybe that's how they would have done it in that movie but I'm not really playing a waspy type so sometimes they can be very challenging

if they hear it rhythmically another way yeah someone needs to let you direct a feature you know more than 90% of the directors that I interview like it's very clear yes I'm not too concerned with it, and I thank you, but, well, I'm out of place. I don't think they'll have to let me.

See, Evan's going to get me this deal upon my death. And, yes, I think that I can. I, I just, it's time, you see. That's my big resentment with this life. 929, sure, well. So it really is a bandwidth, you know, parallel self type thing. thing. But surely I'll get it done. I don't know what year it is, but probably within the next five years. One hopes, you know, if all goes...

You'll come back here and we'll reunite with Evan and we'll talk about the feature directing debut and it'll be a... Oh, great. That sounds wonderful. But yeah, it's just, yeah, it's on the docket. I'd like to direct, yeah, five, five pictures before I die and I'd like to get better at surfing. There's your to-do list. Your to-do list. Your list is spread the good word of his three daughters. Congratulations, honestly. The performances are fantastic. Thank you so much. It's a special piece of work. The one and only Natasha Leone, everybody. Thank you for coming. Thanks for being here. Thank you, Dr. Horowitz. Thanks, guys. Happy Halloween or whatever season this is. And so ends another edition of

happy, sad, confused. Remember to review, rate, and subscribe to this show on iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm a big podcast person. I'm Daisy Ridley, and I definitely wasn't pressure to do this by Josh. The Old West is an iconic period of American history and full of legendary figures whose names still resonate today. Like Jesse James, Billy the Kid, and Butch and Sundance. Sitting Bull, Crazy Horse, and Geronimo, Wyatt Earp, Batmasterson, and Bass Reeves, Buffalo Bill Cody, Wild Bill Hickok, the Texas Rangers, and many more.

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