Happy Sad Confused - Nathan Lane

Episode Date: March 27, 2025

In a live taping at Symphony Space in New York, Nathan Lane discusses his return to TV with MID-CENTURY MODERN, his early days in theater, THE BIRDCAGE, THE LION KING, and gets emotional talking about his parents. UPCOMING EVENTS! April 6th -- Paul Feig in Miami -- ⁠Tickets here!⁠ April 12th -- C2E2 events in Chicago -- ⁠Tickets here⁠! April 14th -- Bryce Dallas Howard In New York -- Tickets here! SUPPORT OUR SPONSORS! Quince -- Go to Quince.com/happysadco for 365 day returns and free shipping! Check out the ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Happy Sad Confused patreon here⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠! We've got discount codes to live events, merch, early access, exclusive episodes, video versions of the podcast, and more! To watch episodes of Happy Sad Confused, subscribe to ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Josh's youtube channel here⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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They started to encourage my parents to dance. And I was like, what is this about? And then they kept saying, you know, oh, no, no, no, we haven't danced together in years. And they said, no, no, and they put on some music. And I saw them get up slowly and move towards one another. And they slowly started to dance. And they were really good. And they were in sync in a way that they never were in real life.

But for this moment, they seemed so happy. And they were laughing at the fact that they were even doing it and doing it so well. And then everybody applauded. And then they separated and went to other sides of the room. Prepare your ears, humans. Happy, sad, confused begins now. Hey, guys, Josh here. Welcome to another edition of Happy, Sad, Confused.

Another special one for you guys today, a first-time guest on the podcast. What a legend. Nathan Lane, front and center, about to enter your eyes and ears through this career conversation. Truly a delight to get to know Nathan. And I think you guys are going to really dig this. He is a consummate storyteller, an entertainer, and a great actor to boot. So there was a lot to chat about. That's the main event on HappySat Confuse coming up in just a minute.

Before that, the usual reminders and acknowledgments, et cetera. One thing I didn't mention on the last episode I wanted to thank people for, and if you haven't checked this out, please do. We debuted our first episode. Maybe we'll make more. That's the big question of dog date. Yes, that's me and a celebrity and our dogs hanging out, and the great Rachel Zegler joined me for a fun walk through Central Park.

Lenny was her dog, is her dog, is the most adorable dog. Lucy, my dog, my precious came with us and such a great reception from you guys. The full episode is on YouTube here, but there are bits and bobs on Instagram and other places, and it's been really fun to see people respond so well to this. It was made with love and passion, and I desperately want to do more. We're trying to figure out if we can, we'll see, hey, if you're listening or watching this, and you know somebody that wants to sponsor a dog celebrity show? Hit me up, guys.

In the comments, DM me, do something. I'm out there because all I want to do, I'm not making a dog celebrity show to make money. I'm doing it because I want to do it. So we just kind of need to figure out if it's tenable. If Purina, I don't know, you're out there. You want to pay for a celebrity dog show? I can book the hell out of this.

I can get celebrities and their dogs on my show guys. Anyway, that's all I'm saying. All of which is to say, thank you for checking out the Rachel Zegler episode of Dog Date. And if you haven't already, check it out. Usual reminders, upcoming events. April 6th, Miami, Farda, me and Paul Figue, get your tickets now information's in the show notes. April 12th, Chicago, a whole bunch of panels I'm moderating for C2, E2, the same folks that do New York Comic Con and many more great events. A reunion of the Breakfast Club, John Boyega, once upon a time, a Robocop reunion.

it's going to be a big pack day so come on out in chicago and say hi uh as always patreon dot com your home for all things josh harrowitz and happy say i confused early access autographed posters um bonus materials all the fun stuff patreon dot com slash happy say i confused uh we got price levels for everybody give it a shot go to the lowest level see if it's worth your while if it's not i love you anyway uh but it helps keep the keeps the train running at Happy Sank Infused Station? I don't know. End of metaphor.

Okay. Main event, Nathan Lane. This was a fantastic special night. We did this at Symphony Space, a beautiful theater on the Upper West Side of Manhattan. Upper West Side where I was born and raised. Upper West Side where Nathan Lane lives now. So it had a lot of sentimental value.

It was a packed house. And I mean, what can I say about Nathan Lane? You'll see in this conversation. But the man has done it. at all on Broadway, obviously, the producers, guys and dolls, but also Angels in America. He can do drama. He can do comedy in film, The Lion King and Birdcage, television, Emmy winner for Only Murders in the Building.

And he is currently starring in the new show he was there to promote, actually, mid-century modern, which is a really fun traditional kind of sitcom, but very funny. It's from the makers of Will and Grace and Ryan Murphy and has him. and Matt Bowmer and the late great Linda Lavin. Check it out. It drops on March 28th on Hulu. And, yeah, I mean, you're going to see. You're going to hear Nathan Lane is, he's kind of like, I don't know, he's just a consummate

storyteller. He can be, he's just got the timing down. He just makes you smile, made me smile. So this was a real special one for me. I hope you guys enjoy it. And, yeah, without any further ado. symphony space new york city here's me and nathan lane hello symphony space thank you guys for being here uh my name's josh harrowitz if you haven't been to one of my shows before you're inside my

podcast i'm sorry you're in it now it's called happy sag infused uh and i've been privileged enough over the years to be at symphony space a number of times it is always such an honor to be here uh i grew up just a few walks away so this is always like coming home and it's a beautiful theater and again, thank you. It's also a really special night because this is a first-time guest on the podcast, and I'm going to say these nice things to his face, too, but I'm going to say it right now.

Nathan Lane is a living legend. He can do anything. He is a Tony winner, an Emmy winner. He can do drama. He can do comedy. He has entertained all of you many times. I don't know a life without entertainment that involves Nathan Lane.

His new series are going to love it is called Mid-Century Modern. It is coming very soon on Hulu. We're going to talk about that and a great many things. Please give a warm symphony space welcome to the one and only, the legend. It's Nathan Lane, everybody. Hi. Oh, you have the clock and... Go!

Exactly. Nathan, Symphony Space, Symphony Space, Nathan. Thank you for doing this, sir. Sure, thanks. I know you're probably ill at ease in front of an audience after all these years. No, I like having people watch. Is it just white noise to you at this point? Because you have heard so much applause in your storied 50s.

50 years of entertainment. I mean, has there been a more celebrated person walking out to a pause than Nathan Lane? What does it mean to you? Many. But it's nice. It's lovely. You know, people appreciate what you do. You know, plumbers don't get that.

So it's a lovely, lovely fringe benefit of being in the arts. Do you ever experience anything resembling stage fright at this point? What's a scenario where Nathan Lane feels ill at ease? I have a little bit. You know, famously, there was, Olivier went through a period of stage right where he would just tell people, don't look me in the eye when we're on stage together. Otherwise, I'll go up.

There were two different plays where it happened, a Simon Gray play called Butley, and a David Mammah play called Novi. where I had long monologues like in November there were phone calls that I would for three and a half pages where no one was talking about me and I was having a conversation with someone and and I usually enjoy those kinds of things I'm good at phone calls on I am I really am sort of a hundred special skills good at phone calls now it seems quite antiquated but just texts me on stage, reading texts, yeah, but I got into this fear that I wouldn't remember. And so before each show, I would go down and I would go through everything in my head and yeah, and I sort of worked my way through it, but both times it sort of, it was like I had a lot to say and it got me for a little bit. Yeah, I would imagine you don't go up on a line at this

stage in your career. That doesn't happen. Well, I'm sure it does. I mean, I, um, there are, you know, over the years now, I haven't done a play now in a few years, but it, um, it, it's like a thing that it's like a, you know, you're, when it happens, there's this adrenaline and fear that goes through your body where you go, I don't know, what am I, what am I going to say? What, I know I have to say something. And then, then it just comes for some reason. and thankfully.

But I mean, you know, I'd like to think I'm fairly improvisational. And if I did go up badly, I could just chat for a while. I do remember Swozy Kurtz, the wonderful Swozy Kurtz telling me a story about she had done a play with this older British character actor who constantly went up on his lines. And when he would, he would just turn to her and say, so how's your father? It works in any context for any point.

So it's all on them. So how's your father? Downright, rude. Wow. Okay, before we get to mid-century modern, which is a wonderful new series from the creators of Will and Grace, Ryan Murphy, an amazing ensemble.

We are on the Upper West Side, and when I was doing my copious research, correct me if I'm wrong, Nathan. Was your first place in New York? Was it the Upper West Side? Does this bring back? Yes. Some memories?

Yes. Yes, it was. And I've lived for 20 years in Tribeca, but I'm now back on the Upper West Side. But thank you. I'm sure I've seen you at Citarella. But, yeah, I lived on 70,000. I want to say 77th between

Broadway and West End or something like that yeah it's a long time ago I came to New York in the late 70s like 78 79 and I shared an apartment with a young actress do you think about that like do you romanticize

that time or does it do you recall the difficulties of that time of a young up and coming actor at this point I don't romanticize it because it was difficult. I was poor and struggling and it was, you know, trying to make ends meet

and doing odd jobs, singing telegrams. And I used to do surveys for the Harris Poll. I used to interview farmers and ask them what insecticide they were using. I would call, you know, and you would hear, you know,

and I was always so embarrassed by this, you know, You know, and you would hear, like the wife would say, well, he's out in the field right now. I don't know. And then you were ebb, you hear ab, you know, screaming, you know, and then, you know, 10 minutes later, someone would, a guy would get on the phone and say, yeah.

Hi, Mr. Summers. What kind of insecticide are you using? And he said, I'm going to come to New York and kill you. I used to, I sold things by phone, something called the bulwarker, which was an isometric, a plastic, it was obviously some toy that was made by Mattel that didn't work, and they turned it into an isometric thing. People to do exercise. I sold that TV guide. I sold by phone, and then political surveys. Man of many talents. You can do it all. Well, it was interesting because it was improvisation and they would give you a script. So no matter what the person said, you would have a response. I can always tell when someone calls me, you know, and it's one of the, we'd like to talk to you.

And you know that if you say, I really don't have time. Well, you might have time for this. How's your father? How's your father? All right, let's talk about this wonderful. new series. It is called Mid-Centary Modern. I talked a little bit about the pedigree of the show. It's also a bit of a full

circle moment, if you'll allow me. Over 40 years ago, you did do a sitcom that was called, ironically, this could be the name of this sitcom, too. One of the boys was the name of the sitcom. Oh, yeah, but that wasn't my fault. That was

fucking Mickey Rooney's show. I was a kid. They hired. Dana Carvey. Dana Carvey. yes, it was an eclectic group Scatman Crothers Scatman Crothers I once said to him

Scatman How do you look so young How do you stay so fit How do you do it And he said Nathan I'll tell you Every morning I get up And I take a nice hot shower

And then I smoke a big fucking joint And I'm ready to face the day Yeah well that was You know that was we knew I knew going in that was not going to go beyond 13 episodes. You know, it was just one of those shows.

It was, that was a show created by Saul Turtle Tub and Bernie Ornstein who had written it for Jack Albertson because they had done Chico and the man with him and then he died. And then someone decided because Mickey Rooney

was having a renaissance at the time. He was doing sugar babies and the Black Stallion. So he was also, you know, doing sugar. baby's at the same time. He's doing eight shows a week and thought, oh, in my spare time during the day,

I'll do a situation comedy. Anyway, it was not a good show. I've heard Dana talk about it. Oh, Dana was traumatized for life. He's talked about like Mickey would bring a gun. Mickey would like,

Mickey sounded like a character to say the least. Oh, he was nuts. He was totally, he was totally traumatized with those years at MGM. Have a the Pell Mickey and do the number. You know, you know, it was just

crazy. So he never he kind of never grew up. And he was yeah, he, you know, he was enjoying this renaissance because, you know, he had been out doing dinner theater and you know, it was, he really

struggled for quite a while. And then he had this moment again that was very nice. And he was, but he Yeah, he was crazy, you know, and he was not born-again Christian. Not that there's anything wrong with that, but, you know, there was, and then meanwhile, he was betting on horses, you know, he was, you know, he was just so crazy. Oh, there's stories I could tell you, but, you know. We're extending by an hour tonight.

Yeah. Yeah. Okay, let's talk about this. This is a slightly different experience, I would imagine. I'll say. Well, you know, here's the thing. I haven't done one of these in a very long time. My history with the multicam is dicey to say the least.

And, you know, it just, it hasn't worked. So I was doing, this came about because of Ryan Murphy. I was doing this mini-series, monsters about the Menendez brothers. and he called to say he had this script from the creators of Will & Grace, Max Muchnick and David Cohan, and that he had never done a multicam before, but he read the script and said, if I'm going to do one, this is the one I'd like to do,

and they kind of wrote it with you in mind. And so, and he said, it's sort of the gay golden girls. And I was, you know, which is, I think there's already been a gay golden girls. It was called the golden girls. So, so I was, you know, I was like, you know, it's Ryan Murphy. So I said, oh, sure, it sounds great. But inside I was, you know, thinking, oh, God, help me.

And then I read it. And it was hilarious. It was screamingly funny and very smartly set up. And you saw where the show had the picture. potential to continue, and that's hard to do in a pilot. Pilots are the most difficult because you are setting up the story and the characters, and it's hard to do all that and be funny, but this, they accomplished it. So that's where it started, and what else you want to know?

That's it. Thanks, everybody. No. We were saying backstage also it's directed by the great Jimmy Burroughs. If you guys don't know, he's directed every great sitcom you've loved in the history of television. The legendary Jimmy Burroughs, he had directed all of Will & Grace, too, and so he directed all 10 of these episodes, and he's just amazing. He's 81, but, you know, he's just amazing. And, you know, look, this is, you know, as William Goldman famously said, nobody knows anything.

but this was an incredibly happy experience and it was that thing of it look it's all about the writing it all comes down to the writing you've got to have that or you don't have anything and just the kind of miracle of casting all of these people you know Matt Bowmer Nathan Lee Graham just phenomenal actors and the late great Linda Laban

who we had always wanted to work together and yeah And so it was just kind of this magical experience. It went, so I would say to my husband, he said, how's it going? And I would say, it's going so well, it's almost unnerving. When's the other shoe going to drop? So that's, you know what, that's all you, in anything in show business, that's all you have is the experience, you know, is what you take away from it. And then whatever happens will happen.

And that's not up to me. But it has been the happiest experience I've had ever in television. And a lot of it has to do with, when you're working with some of the best people who've ever done this form, it makes a huge difference. Well, you know the writing spot on when you read your character name, and it's Bunny Schneiderman. Bunny Schneiderman. Half the work is done right there. I believe I had a joke where I said, Bunny, someone asked me, he says, Bunny Schneiderman. and say it's soft and it's almost like praying.

But Bunny Schneiderman, yes, he is a very wealthy and successful manufacturer of women's bras. He has like 50 stores across the country called the Bunny Hutch. And he's living in Palm Springs in this huge house with his mother, played by Linda Lavin Sibble, and the show opens at the funeral of a very close friend of his name, George, and his two other closest friends, Jerry and Arthur, played by Matt Bomer and Nathan Lee Graham, are all gathered.

And they come back to his house, and, you know, my character is sort of, he's sort of lonely, he has one foot in retirement. He's never had the great love of his life. And so he's having such a great time with these two friends. He, on the spur of the moment, says, why can't this be the rest of our lives? And he suggests, you know, the reasoning behind, you don't, you know, you're too poor to live in New York, and you're, you know, he's Matt Bowmer,

who I think will be the revelation for a lot of people because he's so hilarious in this part. He plays this sort of dim-witted sexpot airline steward and so I talk them into moving in with me and then of course there are some complications but it becomes about this chosen family and these three I wouldn't say they're golden

I'm the only golden girl but it's three gay men at different stages of their lives and negotiating getting older and you know and try to I guess be viable in the marketplace. And, you know, and it's, that's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's a great fun. And it's so, the writing is incredibly smart.

And the, the wonderful thing on Hulu is that we have this freedom in terms of language and situation. And so it's, you know, I used to think Well and Grace was, were, they were pushing the boundaries with that. But this, we go much further. to say the least. And so maybe it's the right time for something like that. There you go. To push a few boundaries. During the Volvo Fall Experience event,

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Life's the trip. Make the most of it at Best Western. Visit BestWestern.com for complete terms and conditions. So, okay, we do have the luxury of a bit of time. So we're going to do a little bit of This Is Your Life, Nathan Lane, lie back. I don't know if that seat reclines a little bit, but get comfortable. What do you want to say about your parents? This is a big question because this really formed you.

Your parents, I know I've read a lot about them. It was an interesting childhood, a unique childhood to say the least. How do you think, I mean, this is a long, a short question with a long answer. How did they form the man I see today, the artist I see today? How did they form the man you see today? Well, you know, you know, yeah, that's, you know, I've been trying to write a memory. to write a memoir. I mean, they gave him the money, so I'm just trying.

But it's interesting to start to look back at those days. You know, my mother, on her wedding day, her mother, my grandmother, who I was very close to, took my mother side and said, you're making the biggest mistake of your life. life. Yeah, my father was, you know, he sang,

he was a truck driver for many years. And then he got involved in local politics and my mother was, she was, she worked as a secretary. At first she worked at, actually, at Manishabets. She worked at a, yeah, for Manashevis, and then she became a secretary at the prosecutor's office in Jersey City.

She was part of a secretarial pool for all the lawyers. Anyway, when my father got involved in politics and then he, it didn't go so well, and he started drinking very heavily, and he became an alcoholic, and it was really my mother was raising three, I have two older brothers. and she had me late in life she was 40 years old when she had I was an accident they went to a wedding and had a couple of drinks

and you know had sex for the first time in decades and you know the future light of Broadway came along so let's fuck until we have a Tony Award winner.

So, so when I came along, you know, yeah, it was, it was the really, it was, their marriage was at its worst, and he was, the only time I would see him was

when he was, he was drunk most of the time. You know, I remember this one morning going to school and And it was a really sunny day, and I'm walking down the street, and there was this place called the Stegman Street Tavern, and the back door was open, and the sun was sort of shining into this bar, and I saw, I stopped, and I saw that it was my father who was sweeping up, obviously, to pay for drinks, perhaps. sensed that somebody was looking at him and he turned around and we just stood there and stared at each other and he didn't say anything to me he didn't come out and i didn't i didn't say anything we just stared at each other and then he went back to sweeping and i went on to school and um so i didn't have i didn't really have a relationship with him um as i did with my mother but um

How that of, you look, we're all, we both myself and my two brothers, we all bear the scars of, you know, what went on. And yet we've survived and have succeeded. And, you know, I think there's part of me that probably has inherited, whatever, the performing side of my father, whatever that might have been, or at least maybe that's what I think might have been. And, yeah, it's, it's, those, you know, I think in some ways, it'll be, they're terribly unhappy marriage probably drove me into the arts, into show business or plays. It was an escape. You know, I will tell you, this is so depressing hearing about this sad marriage, but. this one time there was one time they were together

he had two she got him to go to AA a couple of times and we went to a holiday party and at her brothers and my mother's family looked down on my father

because he was an alcoholic and yet all of my mother's siblings were all alcoholics and my father used to say they could drink me under the table any day anyway they went he was sober and they were at this holiday party and then for some reason

we were at their my uncle's house in the suburbs in Plainfield, New Jersey I found very glamorous and they had a dining room table and I thought that wow that's something that's fancy when you have a dining room table

and they were playing music and then they started to encourage my parents to dance and I was like what is this about and then they kept saying you know oh no no no we haven't danced together in years and they

said no no and they put on some music and they kept saying do the Peabody you're always so great at the Peabody which is a kind of rather difficult dance and I saw them get up slowly and move towards one another and they slowly started to dance, and they slowly started to dance,

and they were really good, and they were in sync in a way that they never were in real life. But for this moment, they seemed so happy, and they were laughing, and they were laughing, the fact that they were even doing it and doing it so well. And then everybody applauded. And then they separated and went to other sides of the room. Beautiful memory. Thanks for sharing that. You know, I'm struck when you talk about your early days of your career,

when I've heard you talk about it. You know, there were struggles. There was, you know, there was a path as you started to work. work, but it sounds like you always had this confidence that it was going to work out. Is that fair to say that you, and I guess like what... Well, I came from an alcoholic and a manic depressive. It's all connected. There you go. I had some, I don't know why. Yes, I did think, yeah, it's all going to work out.

I don't know why. I had that, I don't, I can't even call it confidence. It was just some part of me that said, it's going to work out. and I used to visualize it as if it was a movie and this was the beginning of the movie and when I'm struggling and you know starving and and it you know it seemed impossible because I had no show business

connections whatsoever and I mean at least in my case you know there's all those stories of people going into show business and everybody's saying no it's no don't do that and my family's like sure see if you can make some money and then give me some So, yeah, it was, and my brother, my oldest brother, Dan, who's really the one who encouraged my interest in the theater and was incredibly supportive and sort of played a paternal role in my early life, you know, encouraged it and so, yes, there was that, yeah, somehow I thought I was going to make it. Did you see, like, so when I'm looking at your work, for instance, in the 80s, you know, you make your Broadway debut with the great George C. Scott, your work, you're doing kind of bit things in television here and there.

Like, did you see a path like TV and film? When did that emerge as something that felt like a viable career? Or did it feel like it was going to be a life on stage at that time? I know TV and film just seemed so far away and I never I don't know why it was just always about the theater but I guess it was that's what was my initial interest and my brother took me to see theater in New York and and that's what fascinated me that whole process and and watching the Tony Awards on television as a kid and so those were the those people you know fascinated me with Robert Preston and Rex Harrison and and and Zero Mustel and all of those, Angela Lansbury and on and on. So the TV and film was, I just never, to be honest, I didn't really pursue it all that much. I mean, if something came out, I mean, I'd audition in the beginning. You'd want to be audition for everything and see where it leads. But I always thought you would learn more working in the theater in terms of acting.

Well, I was going to say, If you go down the YouTube rabbit hole, you can see your guest-starring spot on Miami Vice as Morty Price, for instance. That's forever on the Internet. Sure. Sure. Bring that up, why don't you? I'm not going to show it. Don't worry. But, I mean, you talk about, like, finding the breadth of work. Is it fair to say Terence McNally was the one that kind of saw a different side of you or gave you the opportunity that you weren't getting to show a different side of you on stage?

and that obviously eventually led to a greater work in film? Yeah, I mean, Terrence and a director named John Tellinger. I had done a play, this Simon Gray play called The Common Pursuit, and I did it first at Long Wharf, and then we did it in L.A., and then I did it off-Broadway. But John Tellinger was working at the Long Wharf at that time, and he was a literary manager,

and then he was moving into, he had been an actor, and he was moving into directing. And so he's the one who John Tillinger cast me in the John Robin Bates' first play in New York, the Film Society. And he was really the one who's, you know, said to me, you know, you're more than just funny. And then it was, he was directing this play by Terrence

called the Lisbon Traviata. at the Manhattan Theater Club, and they were looking for a much older actor. And they weren't finding anybody that they liked, and it was sort of a last-minute thing that John Tillinger said, but what about Nathan? And Terrence was like, well, I love Nathan, but I, you know, I think he's too young, but they decided to bring me in, and then I auditioned, and then they gave me the part, and it was, yeah, that was life-changing.

Before we come to what became an amazing run, as you started to do more and more film, I do want to mention one Broadway show that personally meant a lot to me, and I'm sure many saw it. It was a production of Guys and Dolls, which I was a teenager when I saw that famous production, and it was the most entertaining thing I'd ever seen on a stage, and I'm sure many share that memory. I mean, that was kind of a bit of a phenomenon, and you were in other phenomenon that came on stage afterwards, But what do you remember of being in the eye of that storm at the time?

This classic show, this classic production. What did it feel like at the time? I know. It's very fondly remembered. And, yeah, well, you know, it's guys and dolls. So it's, you know, it's arguably the greatest musical comedy ever written other than Gypsy. So it's sort of the quintessential musical. And as my friend Louis Stadlin likes to say, it's sort of that he thinks it's the greatest treatise ever written about the issues between men and women.

And yeah, he always says he would happily, could happily spend the rest of his life on the road doing guys and dolls. It's just, you know, it's the show. Again, it's the material. It was just a, you know, it was a show. that I loved. I had played Nathan Detroit in a non-equity dinner theater when I was 21 at the Meadowbrook dinner theater in Cedar Grove, New Jersey. Another great production. Another great production. And so and then when I joined Actors Equity, there was, my name was Joseph Lane. There was already at Joseph Lane. And they said, you know, you'll have to change your name, which was very traumatic.

And they said, oh, take your time. The woman said, take your time, you know, come back. And I said, no, just give me a minute. And I sat down on a bench across from her little window. And I had done, I had played Nathan, and I had played Benjamin Franklin in 1776 in non-equity summer stock. And I thought I'll either be Benjamin or Nathan Lane. And then I thought it had a better rhythm. and I said I'll be Nathan Lane.

So to get to finally do it in a big, big time Broadway revival directed by Jerry Zaxx and, you know, it was, it was, it's great, great material. And yet there was a lot of pressure on that production, you know, because everybody would basically say, yeah, you're doing guys and dolls,

don't fuck it up. And it hadn't been done. done in a long time. The last one had been in the late 70s. A. Burroughs directed an old black production of it, which I saw, which was great. And so there was that. It was a lot of pressure and very, all eyes were on that revival. And then, yeah, I mean, we, you know, it had a, it, it was a journey to finding it. It was designed very boldly. by Tony Walton and William I be long. And you kind of, you couldn't, you know,

you couldn't walk on into the small independent film version of Guys and Dolls. You had to live up to these sets and kind, you know, it was so brightly, it was like all in Technicolor. So you had to come on and take the stage, and it took all of previews to figure that out. But it was, it's a, that show is a gift to any actor. I still can't believe they haven't done another film version

of Guys and Dolls. They are going to do it. Well, they've been talking about it. I know. They keep talking. But I think this one is going to have. Rob Marshall is going to do it. Long overdue.

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With 800 points after registration, activation, and first purchase of a dollar or more, see the Tim's app for details at participating in restaurants in Canada for a limited time. To this day, do children recognize your voice from the Lion King? Does that ever happen out of context? No, children could care less. Children have other issues that are dealing with. Parents used to say that. you know and it would say this is the guy who did this they don't do it anymore

really but in when it happened when the movie had come out yeah people would say this the guy who did the boys and kids would just look at you like you I ate Tomeone and well where's Tomeone yeah no no yeah that was and that was sort of happened around guys and dolls we were doing Ernie Sabella who was the voice of Pumba, the Wart Hog. He and I were doing guys and dolls at the time, and we both auditioned for the hyenas. And I had said, let us read together.

It'll make it easier because there's three hyenas talking. And then we left and thought, well, that'll never happen. And then they called us if we want you to play these two comic characters. And so when we went in and they showed us the drawings of Timoan and Pumba, I said, well, what do you, what do you want? What do you want? What do you want them to sound like? And so they were saying, well, you should, you're doing guys and dolls. And he said, they're kind of like Damon Runyon characters, you know, the comic relief. And but you should be, they said to me, you should talk in a higher pitch and Ernie should be in a lower pitch to differentiate. Ernie sort of found this combination of, he always says it's a combination of the rhythms of this character actor, no one here would probably remember, called Wallace Beery. So Ernie would, you know, when he's, oh, gee, kid, you know, he's doing Wallace Beery. But then when he gets excited, he gets, and it's very high.

He's doing Michael Gotso from the Godfather. It's a very elaborate vocal stuff Ernie is doing. And then I just, you know, decided to be Jewish and from Brooklyn. It worked. It worked. So that's somewhat of an unlikely phenomenon. And then there's a film that to this day, I'm sure, comes up almost every day, the bird cage, that has every single element. And you never know if it's going to work. work out, but certainly it had a lot going for it. Between Mike Nichols and Elaine May,

obviously the original production, La Caja Fall, you and Robin, Gene Hackman, the late great Gene Hackman. But what an opportunity for you to get that kind of a role, front and center, in a film with that pedigree. Did it feel like that in the moment? Like, this is, I'm getting the, I'm getting my shot. Oh, absolutely. Yeah. No, and, and, you know, the joke is, I had to turn it down because they were they were building a Jerry's axe was building a production of a funny thing happened on the way to the forum around me and it was going to be a conflict with this film that Mike Nichols was going to make and so you know I had to say to him you know after all of this buildup and I had done a screen test and the whole thing and I had to say I can't it's not going to work out I can't you leave them in the lurch you know It would be unethical. And then Mike Nichols wouldn't let it go. And, you know, Scott Rudin was producing this production of a funny thing

happened on the way to the forum, who I knew. And so Mike would call me. He called me once. He was like on vacation in Ireland. And I was in the dressing room for laughter on the 23rd floor, this Neil Simon play. And he said, dear boy I keep seeing people

but I just think you're the guy to play this part and I said oh I said you know I would love to do it I said but I said you know I have no power here you're Mike Nichols

perhaps if you called Scott Rudin an agreement could be made but I wouldn't know about such things and so and then the next morning Scott Rudin called and said, you really want to do this movie?

And I was like, well, yeah, why wouldn't I want to do a movie directed by Mike Nichols, written by Elaine May starring Robin Williams? That would be a foolish thing to turn down. He said, you realize we're going to have to postpone by a year? And I said, I realized that. I said, you know, I did turn it down. So he said, okay.

And so it's really thanks to say, Scott Rudin that I was able to do the film and then it actually paid off because by the time we opened the show the following year the movie had come out and it's sort of I wasn't just this New York actor making good but it was oh the guy from that the guy in the dress is now on a toga he I mean he also it strikes me like the narrative of your career it's like this actor who can entertain audiences in every possible way and be so wonderfully comedic, but then also shows off, especially in the last 15 years, this dramatic side. I mean, that's what Robin did. Robin was the funniest man on the planet and somehow also changed the narrative for himself. Do you think about that? Like, was he almost a model for you as you kind of navigated your own career, your own path? Well, not consciously, no, but certainly for me, it, there came up, there was, It was a period where, how much time do we have?

There was a period where I was doing a musical on Broadway called The Adams Family, which was reviled by the critics. I mean reviled. Jackie Hoffman, who was in it, said, Jesus, even gay men don't like this fucking music. But it didn't seem to matter to the public because they just wanted to see those characters they wanted and they liked the,

and it was the notion of all of us in it, and it, so it succeeded in spite of what had been said about it. And so, but it gave me some time to think. And at the same time, Charles Isherwood, who was then a critic at the New York Times, wrote this, a lovely piece, about me, a kind of a career assessment, I guess he felt sorry for me being trapped in the Adams family. And he wrote this lovely piece about my career. And he said, he referred to,

said I was like the great, the last, what the hell was it? I was the greatest stage entertainer of the last decade. And the word, and, you know, as flattering as this piece was, I can find the dark cloud in any silver lining. and the word entertainer sort of irked me and I thought is that how I'm seen at that point

I don't know how long I've been doing I've been an actor 35 years or so at that point and I was like you know I'm an actor I'm not an just I'm not an entertainer and I thought I

I need to do something I need to shake things up I need to challenge myself I need to challenge the audience because I think I have more to offer as an actor and I wonder if I can do that. I wonder if it's even possible to shift people's perception

because, you know, people like to, they like to categorize you, they like to put you in a box and you don't come out of that box, just stay in the box and do what we like you to do. And so I thought, you know, how do I do that? And then I had read this interview in variety with Bob Falls, the director, and he was the artistic director, the Goodman Theater in Chicago,

and Brian Denehy, and they had a long artistic relationship and did many plays in Chicago, and some of them came to New York, like Death of a Salesman and Long Day's Journey. And Brian, Denahey, was a very old friend of my of 30 years. We had known each other, and they were talking about revisiting the Iceman Cometh. Brian had done it in 1990 in Chicago, and it was a huge success. I'm surprised it didn't come into New York.

But they were talking about revisiting it and Brian taking on the role of Larry Slade and, you know, who could play Hickey. And so I very... I don't know why. I just said, that's it. That's what I need to do. Something like that.

That would certainly show you. shake things up. So I wrote Bob Falls, and I, you know, and I explained, you know, I read this article, and I said, I'd like to put myself forward if you do Iceman, and here's why, here's my concept for it. And he wrote me back and said, you know, we were just talking off the top of our heads. There is no production planned, but he said, if you would like to do it, let's get together and discuss it and and so eventually I did I went to Chicago I mean I wanted to do it in

Chicago and you know who had the rights Scott Rudin and then he wouldn't he wasn't going to give them to the Goodman Theater yeah so I I had to you know it's his favorite pastime so I had to I had to call and say please I want I just want to do I'm not looking this isn't a pre-Broadway tryout. I want to just, I just want to do this play, and I want to do it in Chicago, and I want to do it with Denahey and Bob Falls, and so he said, okay. And it was that was, that really was a life-changing experience because of the demands of that piece are just extraordinary.

And it's a, as Denny he said, well, other than Lear, you only pick the most difficult a role ever written. And, you know, he was my, Brian was just, he's someone else. Fuck, this is what happens when you get old. You just.

Someone got this man of tissue. You just, you just start crying a lot. Anyway, he was such a, you know, a mentor and champion of mine doing that part

and doing it together doing it with him was so important to me and Bob and then you know and eventually we did it at the Brooklyn Academy and it was you know that thing with it's O'Neill I highly recommend

O'Neill if you want to shake things up because you know nobody writes like that anymore and the kind you know, I can remember reading this interview with Colleen Dewhurst where she had done, started to do O'Neill

and she said, oh, it's ridiculous in one paragraph. You know, it's just how do you do this stuff? And it is. He's asking you to go as far as he's going in the writing and to jump off this cliff

with him and you've got to surrender to it. And if you do, that's when it works. giving yourself over to it because it's you know ice man he's asking you to go to the darkest places in your soul and the places you didn't even know existed and so it's it's a you know but it's it is once you've been through it it's it changes everything it changes it changed certainly for me how i work how i approach things it changed everything and

maybe leads to something i mean a lot of the stuff you just said could describe i got a chance to see Angels in America. I mean, you as Roy Cohn. Talk about a ferocious performance, ferocious human being. I guess we've now learned Roy Cohn might be the most consequential human being to our sad times we live in now. Yeah, that's right. He has a lot to answer for. Yeah. But to be in that, I mean, you know, it's one thing to be in the producers and these things that just bring sheer joy from an audience. But it's a different, I would imagine, a different energy, a different level of satisfaction going through

O'Neill, Kushner. But it was doing stuff like that, like Iceman, and I was just lucky that a few other things came along and in television as well and more serious things. And that's really what led to, I think, being asked to play

Roy Cohn, which was, you know, it's, Roy Cohn is just in that play. This is not the real human being. It was vile. But that character in the play, you know, that's just, it's, it's, let me tell you, it's heaven. It's heaven, because it's just, it's just one of the greatest parts ever written. It was just the most thrilling, thrilling thing to do, seven and a half hours, you know,

and you, those two show days when you did the whole thing, I mean, that's what, you know, you realize then what theater can be, is this, it's, it's really, really is a communal experience in the people who would come and be there and then go out and have dinner and talk about it and come back for the Parastroika. You know, that was just the greatest experience. You know, that just doesn't come along very often, material like that. It seems to me, coming full circle, I mean, you talked about how this has been the best television experience of your life doing mid-century modern. And then I look at the recent film work. I mean, we were talking backstage about Bose of... And like when someone like Ari Aster thinks about you, like the coolest out there younger filmmaker is thinking about you.

You're in something like Dix the Musical, which is as out there and insane as you get. I mean, do you find that you found, I don't know, like an interesting new niche in film and TV where... Not at all. No. No. No. It was just a moment and it passed. No, it has.

It's not sure. It was, yeah, I had an A24 love affair for one year. one year. Well, what are you looking for in film and TV? What don't they think of you for? You know, that was just you know, that was just Ari contacting me about that. And then Dix the musical was

just you know, I, you know, obviously I read it and I was like, holy fuck. And then they said Larry Charles was going to direct it and I love Larry Charles, and we had a couple of Zooms

to discuss it, and then I just, you know, I said, I've got to meet these two young guys, Aaron Jackson and Josh Sharp. They had done this as a sketch at Upright Citizens Brigade when it was called fucking identical twins.

Their twisted version of the parent trap in which they played all the parts. And so I said, well, let me have dinner with them, and it'll meet them and discuss this. And then, you know, four hours later

and many cosmopolitans, I said, well, I guess we're making a movie. And, yeah, I just admired, I mean, you know, I admired their hutsper, their, the audacity of it. And like, you know, we're not, and you know, as Aaron used to say, well, we're not doing it to upset people.

We're doing it, we're not doing it for the people who won't like it. We're making this for the people who will like it and yeah it was it was

you know born to be a cult film but but great fun I mean they're really smart guys I mean for something so deeply silly

and absurd they're really smart guys and very funny and I love them you know they were like the gay sons I never had

so I was you know we made a movie musical in 21 days And, you know, and I got to, you know, Megan Malali is an old friend, and we, we, so I knew that if she played the, the, my ex-wife, it would, you know, that she would, I mean, she's just phenomenal. She's just an inspired comedian and singer and extraordinary singer. And so that was just, we, we just had a blast. And any time Megan can improvise, you know, she's in heaven.

and yeah it was just we had a we had a great time and you know and so it's exciting to work with young people and and you know take a chance on somebody like like Aaron and Josh or work with this you know somebody as brilliant as Ari Aster and and be a part of that but those projects are you know I don't think anybody saw them you know they kind of came and went very quickly you know unless you every once in a while someone will bring up you you know, Bo is afraid. If you see it, you never forget it. We'll put it that way. Come on. Well, sure. It's, well, it's like, what is it, five hours? It just goes on.

It goes on and on and on. But it's fascinating. And, you know, to get to work with Joaquin Phoenix and Amy Ryan, it was, you know, I had a great time. But, yeah, I'd love to think it could lead to interesting film roles, but not so far. We're manifesting tonight. Time is running short, a couple audience questions. This actually segues well out of you talking about Amy Ryan and Joaquin. Do you have a dream scene partner, an actor you've never worked with you want to work with?

An actor I've never worked with that I would like to work. Oh, well, there's so many. Who would I, an actor I'd like to work? I never, um, well, yeah, that's good. Yeah, who would I, who would be, who would be good for me to part? partner with. We're a filmmaker. Anything jump to mind who's? Well, yeah, there's a kind of dozens. Yeah, any, Scorsese. Give me, give me a call. You know, yeah, I mean, there's lots of people. I'd love to work with Wes Anderson, you know, that'd be an

interesting combo. You know, who actors, Ryan Gosling, I'd like to work with. I think he's hilariously funny. He is. He's got... Ryan, isn't he? It's almost annoying someone that handsome has that

such good comic timing. He's a great actor, but he's screamingly funny. He's so good at comedy. And, yeah, I could play his, you know, alcoholic uncle. I don't know.

I'm somewhat surprised with all these movie musicals. Do they not come calling? Is that of interest to you to be in any of these giant, ginormous cash cow movie musicals that they're making every other month it seems I don't know if they're cash cows but what was the wicked that was I would there was a

moment where I I was the you know the wizard role was it was an idea but then it was a conflict with something I was doing so that might have been but it didn't it really didn't get very far but no no one is asking me I'm sort of retired from musicals anyway I mean I you know I can get through you know Dick's the musical or you know or yeah I had to sing in an anime this animated film

Titus Purchase and I played these called Spellbound we did for Netflix yeah it was Netflix and we were these two oracles the oracle of the sun and the Oracle of the moon yeah

and but they wrote it like they were a gay couple, you know. So anyway, we had a song in that Alan Mankin's song. No, I just, no, I don't know. Yeah, what can I say? You're a busy man, mid-century moderns keeping you busy. Well, yeah, I hope it will keep me busy for a while, but we'll see what happens. All right, we're going to end with this. The happy, say, I confused, profoundly random questions for you, Nathan. These are more rapid fire. Just tell me, first thing comes to mind. Are you a dog or a cat person? Dog. Correct answer, yes.

Do you collect anything? Just regrets. What's the wallpaper on your phone? Oh, it's just the, it is just whatever that, you know, the blue orb. Is that the Earth? The Earth? Yeah. Yeah. I think it's that way. It's just black and the blue. I had a, I had a, there was a picture of this, we, my husband and I, during the pandemic, we rescued two dogs. One was a, an old, much older dog named Bernadette, who was a beagle. And, and I, and then a younger dog, Woody, who was a, you know, a mix. And just, he was just about 10 months old. And we, so, I, so, I don't.

I didn't want two dogs, but my husband said, we have to take this older dog, and because no one will wander, because she's old, and she's 10 years old, and, you know, and I, you know, so I gave in, and of course, she and I, you know, bonded profoundly, and I'm now going to cry again. So, so I put her picture on my phone, but every time I opened up my phone, I would start crying, so I said, I can't. So, she, we didn't, you know, she, we only had her for four years, but she was, she was the greatest, sweetest dog. Yeah. Who's the last actor you were mistaken for?

Last actor I was mistaken for? Does that ever happen? Oh, sure. Oh, you know, my, I always go to, you know, Jason Alexander, but, um, no, I don't know, I know, who does, it, yeah, it doesn't, yeah, that doesn't happen. There's only one Nathan Lane. Oh, well, aren't you sweet? What's the worst note a director has ever given you? Um, uh, uh, um,

you know, do it better. Um, it's worse when they don't say anything. You just keep doing it over and on. And you're like, you know, what exactly are we looking for? But yeah, yeah, no, I know that's a, yeah, I think I've seen you ask this question before. It is like a horrible thing, what directors say or don't say or, you know, yeah. And in the spirit of Happy Second Fused, who's an actor, you see them on screen, it always makes you happy, you're in a better mood. Actor on screen, I'm happier because this person's on screen.

Oh Well, that's a lot of people Always makes me happy Yeah, you're in a good mood Okay Donald O'Connor Great, great Love it

A movie that makes you sad Makes you cry, makes you tear up A movie that makes me sad Yeah Oh God Um oh Jesus that's yeah

well what mouse trap always a comedian in the audience yeah mouse trap people always call it that mouse hunt it was called it was called mouse hunt

Mouse hunt was I became like a cult film for kids who saw it at the time because it was like a strange it was like a Cohen Brothers movie for children And it was very dark. And I found that so certain, you know, people who would seen it as children loved it and would bring it up to me. And also I found Russian cab drivers loved it.

You know, there would be a guy, you know, putting on deodorant in front of the cab. And he would turn around and say, were you in the mouse movie? And I would say, yeah. And he would say, this movie is funniest movie ever made. You trying to get rid of mouse for two hours. Funny, funny, this is a very good movie. Yeah, well, what's the sad? I don't know.

The one that comes to mind was Manchester by the sea. That's a sad movie. that's seeing the two of them That's a sad movie Oh my God Yeah, it's a killer No more tears tonight And a food

Well, Kenny Lonergan You know, brilliant And a food that makes you confused You don't get it Why do people eat that? Oh Okay A food that makes you confused

Oh, well That's good That's such a good question Um, um, marzipan. Great. What's the point? What are they doing? What are they doing with that?

Yeah, it just looks like old candles melted together. Here, eat this. That'll hold you. Well, he's returning to Broadway and What's Up with Marzapan, starring Nathan Lane, coming soon. What's up with Marzapan? This has been such a delight, sir. You're always amazing, no matter what kind of genre you're in.

It's great to see you in something like mid-century modern, which is going to make a lot of people very happy. It drops on Hulu, March 28th. Check it out. I'm sorry for the tears. I didn't mean it, but thank you for being so open. New York, give it up one more time for the great Nathan Lane, everybody. Thank you.

Thanks very much. And so ends another edition of happy, sad, confused. Remember to review, rate, and subscribe to this show on iTunes, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm a big podcast person. I'm Daisy Ridley, and I definitely wasn't pressured to do this by Josh. Goodbye, summer movies, hello fall. I'm Anthony Devaney. And I'm his twin brother, James.

We host Raiders of the Lost. podcast, the ultimate movie podcast, and we are ecstatic to break down late summer and early fall releases. We have Leonardo DiCaprio leading a revolution in one battle after another, Timothy Salome playing power ping pong and Marty Supreme. Let's not forget Emma Stone and Yorgos Lanthemos' Bougonia. Dwayne Johnson's coming for that Oscar in The Smashing Machine, Spike Lee and Denzel teaming up again, plus Daniel DeLuis' return from retirement. There will be plenty of blockbusters to chat about to. Tron Aries. looks exceptional, plus Mortal Kombat 2, and Edgar writes,

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