Happy Sad Confused - Nicolas Cage, Kit Harington, Anna Kendrick, Vol. IV

Episode Date: September 19, 2022

A trio of great conversations straight the Toronto Film Festival this week! First up, it's the icon that is Nicolas Cage talking about BUTCHER'S CROSSING, going bald for a film, Marlon Brando, and debating Superman vs. Batman. Next up, Kit Harington joins Josh to discuss BABY RUBY, his MCU future and his thoughts on HOUSE OF THE DRAGON. Finally Anna Kendrick returns fresh from a elevator mishap to discuss ALICE, DARLING, and the sequel to A SIMPLE FAVOR. Come see Josh tape LIVE Happy Sad Confused conversations in New York City! September 23rd with Elisabeth Moss! Tickets are available here! September 29th with Mila Kunis! Tickets are available here! October 25th with Ralph Macchio! Tickets are available here! For all of your media headlines remember to subscribe to The Wakeup newsletter here! Don't forget to check out the Happy Sad Confused patreon here! We've got exclusive episodes of GAME NIGHT, video versions of the podcast, and more! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

D.C. high volume, Batman. The Dark Nights definitive DC comic stories adapted directly for audio for the very first time. Fear, I have to make them afraid. He's got a motorcycle. Get after him or have you shot. What do you mean blow up the building? From this moment on,

none of you are safe. New episodes every Wednesday, wherever you get your podcasts. Prepare your ears, humans. Happy, Sad, Confused begins now. Today on Happy, Sad, Confused, a trio of chat straight from the Toronto Film Festival, Nicholas Cage, Kit Harrington, and Anna Kendrick. Hey, guys, Josh Horowitz here with another edition of Happy, Sad, Confused.

And yes, this one's got something for everyone. Safe to say, three extraordinary actors, two of them new to the podcast. So, okay, I'm going to make this brief because there is a plethora of great conversation coming at you. As you may or may not know, I was recently at the Toronto Film Festival, saw a slew of exceptional movies, got a head start on the big fall to come of some of the big prestige movies. And I also snuck in a few conversations for Happy, Say I Confused. Of course. So you know the drill by now. If you want to watch these conversations, you have two options. If you want the first dibs on the conversations, go over to patreon.com slash happy, sad, confused. Everything goes up there early. The audio, the video, the guest announcements, the discount codes for the live events.

That's where you get that stuff. If you just want to watch the video version of this podcast, these respective conversations, go to our new YouTube channel, YouTube.com, Josh Harowitz. The only other preamble I'll give you, we've got a bunch of live events coming up in New York City, Elizabeth Moss, Milakunis, Ralph Machio, all the information on tickets in the show notes. That's the business. Okay, conversations. You're going to hear three back-to-back conversations in this episode, as I said. So let's start in the beginning. First up, the man, the myth, the legend. Nicholas Cage, he has been on the list. for quite some time, guys. So this is only about a 20-minute conversation, but we packed a lot in. We talked about his new film at Toronto. It's called Butchers Crossing. It is kind of an anti-Western

Nicholas plays. Really a dynamic, interesting character. You'll hear him talk about it, kind of cut from the cloth of a Colonel Kurtz or an Ahab, a big, bold look. He goes bald for the role. And this conversation is great. We talk about comic books because, you know,

he loves that. stuff. We talk about Brando stories, premiere stories, lots of fun. He lived up to every hope I had for this conversation. And yes, I believe, I truly believe we're going to get him for the main, the big one of these days too. A little bit later on, we're going to talk to Kit Harrington, who I caught up with about his new movie that just screened at Tiff called Baby Ruby. I don't believe it has distribution yet. I really enjoyed this one. You should check it out when it comes around, basically about a young couple dealing with a pregnancy and child and kind of part thriller horror and part black comedy. Kitt's fantastic in it. Definitely a change of pace for him.

And again, a first time guest on the podcast that we've of course chatted before. Yes, we talk Game of Thrones. Yes, we talk House of the Dragon. Yes, we talk about his Marvel future. We pack a lot into that conversation as well. We round out our trio of conversations with a returning guest, someone who is a regular unhappy second fused that I can never pass up the opportunity to catch up with. It's, of course, Anna Kendrick. Anna is fantastic in her new film, Alice Darling. Again, a change of pace for her, more dramatic, kind of a stripped down indie, kind of dealing with gaslighting. She plays a young woman in a bit of a toxic relationship, exceptional work from her. And even given the subject matter, we had a light, fun chat about the film, about her

upcoming directing debut, about a simple favor and its sequel that they are working on, and also about her escaping from an elevator in Toronto, which she had just done moments before I caught up with her. So, strap in guys, Nicholas Cage, immediately followed by Kit Harrington, immediately followed by Anna Kendrick. This is the best triple feature in town. Enjoy this special episode of Happy Sad Confused. A distinct pleasure to have Mr. Nicholas Cage on my little old podcast. It's good to see you, man.

Happy to see you. Thank you for embarking me. Congratulations on the film. I mean, like I saw it the other day and we're here in Toronto. It just premiered. Give me a sense, first of all, just over the years. You haven't done so countless premieres. What jumps out to you as like a memory that was surprising to you?

An experience at a premiere where maybe it was better or worse or unusual than what you had expected. Well, I didn't, the last one at South by Southwest from Massive Talent, I didn't expect that. I didn't expect these giant, foamy costumes as different incarnations of so-called Nick Cage, the Nikki character out front at the premiere. I didn't expect the kind of transference of electricity that was in the room between the audience and the cast members. That was a real fun night, and that was kind of brand new for me. What about in terms of brand new, I mean, you grew up loving this and you still do to this day when I think of just actors who love acting. I think of Nick Cage.

Thank you. Do you remember the early years of like the first premieres you went to and just like... Terrible. Oh my gosh. Were stressful or what? Yeah, I was so nervous. I was so hard on myself and so hard on the movies. In fact, here, 1987, Moonstruck premiered,

and Norman was in the cinema with me. And I remember, wasn't it Norman? Yeah, yeah, absolutely. It was my first Toronto, it was my first TIF. And I remember I got up and I walked out. I said, it was a nightmare, I couldn't, and the movie doesn't work, and I was really stressed about it. And of course I was entirely wrong.

The movie's great. Everyone was great in it. But Norman got, I got a call like, is he okay? He didn't seem too happy. And I remember I went to the premiere Valley Girl, the first premiere, and I was sweating. Literally remember a trickle sweat coming down my face. And Lance Henriksen was sitting in front of me. My chair at the cinema was behind him.

I was sweating and the lights came on and I was so stressed out. And he turned and Lance said, do you have any idea what kind of actor you are? And I was like, I don't. I'm horrible, I'm horrible. And he kind of relieved me. I remember that. So those were the first two premieres. Hopefully you're less hard on yourself now.

Well, then I went to Bertie with Alan Parker. Let's just go through every one. I want to hear every single. What do you think? What do you think, Nick? Any good? just kept walking. Oh man, I was, I was a mess. In your own head, just. Wild at heart, I actually left Buzz. That was Cannes, wasn't it? That was like a big premiere. I was pumped. That one,

I started to really enjoy the experience for the other ones. And I had no right to be so hard on them, on the movies, on myself, on the co-filmmakers. I had no heart. I can only imagine the environment of Cannes and Wild at Heart, that electric. A mess. It was, it was electric, but people were bullying, people were cheering. That's Lynch, every Lynch movie. Yeah, but I remember I was in a room with Bernardo Berlucci, Isabella Rossellini, David Lynch, and myself. And I was kind of having a massive panic attack, you know, and I finally just got up and laughed.

And it was like, I could hear them through it. Is he okay? What's wrong with me? I hope you had a more show experience on this one. I'm past all that. You know, you got to remember, I started when I was 15. I was just a kid, you know, it was a big. at the Valley Girl premiere.

And I was relatively a baby at the Moonstruck premiere, you know. This one, I mean, shockingly, is kind of your first overt Western. I mean, kind of like hit every genre. It's the mark of an amazing career that you dabbled in everything, more than dabbled. And I love this character. This is kind of like an archetype that we've seen done very well, and you follow in the lineage. It's kind of that intelligent, obsessive.

It's got that Ahab, Colonel Kurtz vibe. Are you the type of factor that goes back to those? goes back to those. I mean, you know those roles either. You've seen Apocalypse, I'm sure, a thousand times. But do you go back, is it to help you or do you find that gets in your head? No, I love it. I love it. I don't see how any kind of a rehearsal or any kind of research wouldn't do anything but help a performance. And, you know, the director of this particular movie would say that he's not a fan of the Western genre. I personally like Westerns, but

He feels that this is more of an anti-Western and feels that the Western archetype of what is good, what is evil, has done a lot of negative in terms of what it means to be a man, in terms of programming us as men. But that being said, there is a romance to the Western, but I would say my next picture, the old way, is more leaning in the direction

of the traditional Western archetype. This is more of an anti-Western, more of a kind of a, not a message per se, but a reflection of the darker sides of the human nature that lead us to ambition, greed, and bloodlust to bring an animal to extinction. And it's still happening today, I mean, shark fin soup.

But what I think helps me is reading books that inspire me. And this book, John Williams' book, Butchers Crossing, is a great blueprint. And I had been invited to do The Sea Wolf with Ron Howard and he changed his mind to the Grinch. But I read that book, and I loved Wolf Larson, because the character is a dichotomy. He's a conflicted character.

He's remarkably intelligent. He's well read. He's reading Milton's Paradise Lost. And then he's on this blood sport to kill all the seals. And I thought that Miller would be my chance to try and examine that type of a character. But in this case, Miller is also, it's implicit, but he's also kind of an agent of genocide.

In my mind, it was a subtext, is that he knew specifically, you kill the bison, you kill the American buffalo, you kill the life source, you kill the spiritual life source, the food life source of the people, the First Nation people. So the two things were happening once, and it really did happen. There were 60 million buffalo, there were 300 Buffalo. There were how many Native Americans,

and then that, you know what I mean? So that's why. That's why he wanted to make this movie. You have a great cast in this, but you did have a co-star that apparently wanted to murder you. Are you in Rain Man, your horse okay now? Oh, Rayman is a superb horse. That's all I'm gonna say. You're okay, oh no.

A superb horse. Okay, you got through. Because there was, that became a thing. He's beautiful in the movie. He's a great horse. Talk to me about like your decision on a look of the character. This is like you've had a lot of different looks over the years. And it's kind of a shock to the system to see you in this bald with the, the, the, the

the facial hair. Was that your idea? Yeah. No. It was Gabe's idea. How did you respond to that? Well, the first thing he said, because, you know, I don't follow a lot of sports, but I, of course, who doesn't know the phenomenon that is Michael Jordan?

And if there is an athlete that I, there's maybe a handful of athletes that I really find remarkable and amazing to watch, and he's one of them. also like a real killer on the court he is going to win at all costs and people know that and Gabe being from Chicago as well you know bulls and all that he he said I want you to look like Michael Jordan I go well what are you talking about I want you to shave your head I go well why he goes well because I think that the energy that to win at all cost that ambition I think is applicable to Miller I thought and I thought about it was a good idea so I said okay and I did it and

Then I thought about the similarities between Kurtz in Heart of Darkness and Marlin's portrayal of Brando's portrayal of Kurt's in Apocalypse Now, and I thought, okay, well, this could be a coalescence of Michael Jordan and Marlon Brando. Two names I don't think we've ever connected before together, except through the funnel that is Nicholas Cage. Leave it to you. Did you have a relationship with Brando? You must have.

I met him a few times. I always liked him. He was hilarious. I mean, he, I, but the one time that comes to mind was he had given a little talk, I think, at the CAA building, and I went with Giovanni Ribisi because he was a huge Brando fan and we went. And I, and I, afterwards, you know, Brando told all these really surreal, abstract, and marvelously absurd stories. I said to him, you know, Marlin, you know, you've really written the inspiration for me to do this. Jesus Christ, give me a fucking break. That's the thing about him, is that, like, because you're in some ways, not from the acting

prowess part, but the other part, you're the opposite in that, like, you revere and love this, and he lost it. He didn't care. He didn't give the shit about acting, and that just bums me out so much. Well, he said, he said there's, eh. You know, there's a good actor doesn't know where the camera is. A great actor knows where the camera is. And Marlon Brando doesn't care where the camera is.

Don't sit up. Oh, no. Speaking of bald looks, you've said Egghead is the character you'd want to put. Do you have an intro, why Egghead and what you'd want to put? Why Egghead and what's your interpretation? What do you want to bring to the table? Well, you know what I mean? It's like Egghead is Vincent Price, right?

He's one of our other great American superstar actors that I revere and had so much fun watching growing up, Theater of Blood. So I was watching The Batman Show because I really wanted to see what Vincent Price was going to do. And the character is hilarious. I mean, everything starts with Eggselent and it's ecstatic. You know, yeah, but my, if, but I'm not going to, you know, I'm not calling Warner, brother. This is just more of a fun little thing because I'm on a red car, but somebody asked me a question. I want to give them a funny answer.

But yeah, there is an approach to that character that could be terrifying. And I've thought a lot about it. I'm not going to share it with you. Our next conversation. We need to build to that. That's on page 47. Okay. It's funny that like you, obviously you have the history of being associated with Superman.

I feel like you would be like approached at some point. for a Batman. Like Nick Cage, as Batman, makes sense to me in a way. Yeah, well, it's interesting. There's two kinds of people in the world. There's Superman people and there's Batman. So you're a Superman person. Well, I'm kind of both. You just said they're like to wait. Well, I mean, you know, you can't have it both ways, Nick. Well, you're right, you're right.

Well, I don't want to talk anymore about it, because this is just going to go viral. It's just, anything to do with comic book characters, it just goes and go. We can't let them ruin our fun as two geeks talking about. talking about things we love. Superman is interesting because Superman, you know, you think about, you know, what is that energy, you know, and it's really the desire, the need, the absolute commitment to do that which is good, to a point where it's, is this almost a condition, is this a, you know, a, you know, a another obsessive another yeah something like what is that where's that coming from why do we need to be a

hero yeah because you don't feel accepted because you feel alienated because you aren't one of us and you got to fit in and then on the other side you have batman who seems to get a lot of power well he's the most tragic character in all of comic book done isn't it what happened how he came into the world and became the batman you know so his energy is coming from a place that can go either way he could he can do things that are but he never uses a gun but he could still do things that are a bit extreme extreme and malevolent yeah Kevin Smith said he wanted you as bizarro super i never had that conversation i don't know anything about that i never came up i'm i was never a part of that conversation so you can't rope me into that i'm not a part

you are you are you were a part of spider man a spider man noir are we gonna get to see more of you in Well, that would be fun. I would love to do that. What thing you already did? I mean, is it one Spider-Verse? Well, I did it, but it wouldn't it be great to see a live action of that character because I could bring all the, you know, my favorite actor of all time is James Cagney. Of course.

You know, he is something else, and he will always be that energy that I would aspire to. But, yeah, I'd like to bring some of that energy and the bogey energy that Spider-Man noir could embody. You've never done television. You're like one of, it's like you, Tom Cruise, Leo. Like, no one, everyone else has on TV. Well, I did, I did one. I did The Best of Times, which was a pilot.

George Slaughter Productions, George himself discovered me, and he discovered me when I was 15. He made, and I did one show, and it didn't get picked up, so it never happened. I never went to series, and I'm thankful for that because I want, my interest is film acting, is cinema, you know? So is that, that's a philosophy that's just important to you, especially in these times when we talk about,

like, we worry about the future of film and theater going. That's just going to be to your dying day. This is what you've devoted your craft to, your life to, and it's just what it is. Well, they say never say never, but the reality is my interests are cinema. I want to make movies. That's why I'm here and why we're talking. Movies are what I love. No, I'm with you.

The close up, it's James Dean. It's, you know, being at Quentin's cinema, the New Beverly Cinema when I was 15 and having a nervous breakdown, while Dean was having a nervous breakdown watching East Devine. And that is why I said, this is what I have to do. I got to try and get there, you know? You mentioned Quentin. He, a few years back, mentioned you as one of the three great actors in his estimation. He listed Sean Penn and Tim Roth as his favorites of all time.

I can't believe you guys haven't worked together. Have you talked to Quentin at any point? I would put Quentin in the box that is the friend. You know, he's a friend. I consider him someone that I love talking with. I love communicating with. He's somebody that inspires me. I think it's just magnificent that he bought the new Beverly Cinema and the Vista.

And he's keeping these movies. That experience that I had to get in the movie, he bought the church, you know, and he's a guardian of the flame. He's a guardian of the church. And so, you know, my instinct is to keep it in the friendship zone so we can have these delightful exchanges and make lists about favorite films and talk as film enthusiasts. I've been geeking out. He has a book coming out, as he may or may not know,

and he also has like a podcast where Haydman and Roger Avery, just talk about like the movies they grew up watching yeah well i'll probably do something like that at some point for sure yeah yeah i would love to go and talk with clinton at some point you know i just i enjoy the uh the communication from coming from the brotherhood of those of us that are the church of movies right the church of filmmaking are there actors today that are taking the the nick cage big swings i feel like there are not enough like this is what i've always admired about you is like as much as you talked about being afraid at premieres early on you strike me as a fearless performer and have been from the beginning. Thank you. And I'm all in for the big swings.

Thank you. Thank you. Do you see that in the new generation? No, not as much. Right? There's some that definitely have the the flair and the verb. I mean, Joaquin, you know, I absolutely just adore everything he does. And I had the pleasure of working with him on 8mm, and we had a lot of laughs, and we had so much fun together. And I just, everything he does is inspiring. I think Daniel Day Lewis, he has that, the guts, you know, when you look at what he did in, there will be blood, you know, or gangs in New York. I mean, he's, he's got that Cagney large ass, and he's also got the subtlety to do the phantom thread.

He has it, you know, I say Joaquin and Daniel Day have it. Are you a Tom Hardy fan? It's a weird one to bring up, but like Venom, which I'm not necessarily the biggest fan of. I feel like that's like a Nick Cage swing. If he was like doing that kind of movie, that's like, that's what he would do. Well, I haven't seen Venom, but I do think he's terrific. I like so much of what he does. I've been operating on like five hours sleep because I just had to do a new baby.

What was the picture he did where he was in the car? It was just him. Of course, Locke. Locke was, bravo, Tom Hardy. Have you ever done something like that? I'd love to see you, like, that contained environment. I did just recently wrap up a picture with Joel Kinnaman called Sympathy for the Devil where it was just the two of us predominantly going through this movie together, mostly in a car.

Yeah. But with Locke, Hardy was just him, you know, and I thought that was magnificent. I thought that was arguably one of the best performances of the decade. Do you remember your last audition, Nick Cage, way back when? What was the, do you remember, like, when it ended, when you never had to step into that audition room again? It's a long time now I'm sure. It wasn't good. It wasn't really an audition.

It was one of those uncomfortable meetings and I don't know. It was, was it Adrian Line? I don't think it was Adrian Line. Were you a good auditioner like back in the day? Probably not. No? No. See, I have a theory about auditions and I think now they do it more often than not,

you got to put a frame on it. You got to put your audition on tape and put a frame on it. Because if you do something genuinely amazing in an audition in a room, it's going to be original and probably is going to scare them. If it's genuinely great, it's going to scare them away. So if you put a frame on it, they can look at it and go, wait a minute, what was that, and sleep on and go back and look and go, wait, oh, there's something really going on here.

Right. So that's my recommendation. I'll wrap this up, but I'm just curious, is there any status update on the face-off sequel? Have you seen a script? I have no, no status update, I have not seen a script, nothing. Are you ready? Do you still have Travolta in there? Do you have the Travolta voice and mannerisms? I don't know about that.

I know that I think that the group that is seems sincere about putting this together are people that I like. I like the auspices of the filmmakers. I like their movies. I think they're a lot of fun. And I think they have a concept that is pretty complex and it could really work, but I haven't seen this script. Well, in keeping with the Ahab kind of theme, you've been one of those white whales for me to get on the actual podcast for quite a while.

And this is a little shorter than we usually do, but I'm still going to wear you down. You're going to come on the real podcast one of these days for the full game. geek out career conversation. Let's do it. Okay. Okay. I'm gonna hold you too. Absolutely, man.

Congratulations. Thank you. Thanks again. Thanks, man. Mr. Kit Harrington. It's good to see you, man. You as well. You know it's funny.

I was thinking back to our past chats. We've never had a chat about, we never did a Game of Thrones chat. So I only talked to you about, Testament of Youth, Xavier's going here. It's like, it's like Game of Thrones doesn't even exist. I talk about, this is what I want to say. I'm here for the world. real stuff, for the art. Yeah, Game of Thrones is great. Yeah. I'm here for the true breadth of your career. I love that. You're a very rare interviewer who hasn't asked me about Thrones. You're

more than welcome to you. No, no, but I was saying to you before, we're here at TIF, one of my favorite places to view film, and I just saw your movie this afternoon, and I sat a couple roads behind you, and I was scared for you, because I can only imagine what that experience is for someone like you, and you were telling me that was your first time seeing Baby Ruby. That's a rare thing that I will sit in an audience for a premiere of something I'm in, having not seen it in a dark room by myself. That's bravery. On my own. I request that.

It's my one sort of little thing that I request is to be able to see something privately on my own because it's a painful, it's a weirdly painful experience as a kind of as an actor or a creative in the, someone on screen to do that. with a whole group of people. Yeah. But weirdly, with this movie, and today, it didn't bother me at all. It didn't bother me going into it. I was kind of quite chill about it. And again, I said this to you before, and as I said to you, I would have said nothing if I didn't believe it.

I really dug this movie. It's called Baby Ruby. And it's a challenging piece of material, because it really is kind of a bunch of different genres that somehow are all executed very well. In a nutshell, and you can correct me if I'm wrong, it's basically about a young couple having a child. and the anxiety and horrors and neuroses that brings up.

And clearly, and certainly I'm not going to go too personal, but I know you've talked about this. This is like obviously rings true to your own life. And it must have come, I presume, after you became a parent. Yeah, and very hot on the heels of. I think Bess, this landed on my desk and then I chatted with Bess about it, the director about it. probably within the first month of being a parent.

So right in the world that these two in the film find themselves in, I was in when reading this movie. And then by the time we came to shoot it, my boy was four or five months old. So I was sort of coming out of that very early stage of parenthood. And it really rung true to me, and I remember saying this to best, because I felt that what I was told I would feel or what society requested that I feel didn't ring true with what I actually felt.

And now I've got that year and a half in thing of, oh, parenthood's great, I love my child, all of that stuff, that I would have to be really careful with young parents now not to do that myself. But in the early stages, it was a huge, shock to the system I didn't know what I felt about this little creature that had landed in my house I I knew I had to look after it but I it wasn't it right it was a definite it and I and I mean me and my wife and I'm sure

she wouldn't mind me saying this felt that very very strongly that it was a the trauma of it the shock of it was overriding any kind of early parental feelings we might feel Right. And there must also be that I'm not a parent, but I can only imagine from what I know, of like just that insecurity almost of like, wait, am I supposed, am I allowed to feel this way? Like I've been told my entire life, this is going to be the greatest experience of my life.

Shere joy, and there is that. But there's a lot of other things too. I'm really careful now when I meet new parents, I kind of say, how are you doing? You know, you're doing okay? It's crazy, isn't it? It's quite, you know, rather than, isn't it amazing, which is what I want to say being a parent of a slightly older child now, but I need to remember that it, I think any major change in your life, and there's no bigger major change than having a child, takes at least

a year to reconfigure your brain and the synapses and everything. And it definitely does take that when raising a little one. Would this film have been useful for you to see prior to becoming a dad, you think? Directly prior. And I would, I think there should be a warning on it for anyone who's pregnant. I think if you're thinking about having a child, by all means, watch it. If you're pregnant, maybe wait till at least a year after you've given birth. This is a fair way.

You're limiting your audience, but you're being very nice about it. Another thing I love about this, and I know we share this, is we like kind of genre mashups or just really big swings. And this one is, it's a challenging one. And that, like, I think it plays, you can kind of like come at it in different ways because there's a lot of comedy there. I laughed a lot watching it. Like, what did it read to you?

Like, was it presented to you as like, oh, this is a drama, this is a comedy, this is a thriller, or did they just send you the script and then you interpret it? I like my movies like I like my music. I don't want to be able to fit it into a genre. Right. I want it to slip into the cracks of many different things, you know. And when I read something, I'm looking for that, I think. I'm looking for being a bit confused by it.

Even if it's not perfect on the page, and that's not me saying this movie isn't, but even if I'm reading it and going, well, that's not great, but if it weirds me out and it's kooky and strange, and I can't work out whether it's a horror or a thriller or a comedy, then I'm interested. And I think a lot of stuff I've done has,

has been that, even to the, I'm gonna bring it up now, even Thrones, even though I didn't have the choice back then and it wasn't an offer and it was one of my first big jobs. I remember reading that and going, I have no idea what this is. It's like a fantasy, but it's also a, like, a mob thing. I don't know. It's a swing, it's a big swing.

That's what I always say is like, I don't need doubles in my life. I don't need, like, I have to use a baseball analogy. I don't need like a kind of a safe, like, okay movie. Yeah, yeah. Go for it or don't go for it. Exactly, try. If it fails, fine, but if I don't. And I kind of admire the failure, yes too, by the way.

Yeah, yeah, we've got to be able to fail. Yeah. And I thought this about Bess's script. I thought what I liked was I saw really weird comedy, dark comedy in it. And obviously it's kind of thriller, horror, genre, vibes it in there as well. It also addresses kind of like this pressure to be a front-facing perfect person to have it all together, right?

Which, like, whether you're a parent or not, I feel like it's a very relatable thing right now. And especially, you know, and there's a social media component of it all. And anybody can relate to this, but for public figures especially, you've faced this, where it's like, I'm sure, like, you know, like you're human. You're dealing with real shit in your personal life, and then you have to go out in public and go on a red carpet. and present to the world that everything's great. And is that something that you feel like you've had to kind of reckon with since fame has come to you to kind of figure out, like,

how honest to be about the inner shit that you have to deal with because you're a human being? I feel I'm pretty like, I'm a bit of an oversharer, but I'm pretty honest about stuff generally in interviews, I think. I just don't see the need to do it on a daily basis, to the world on social media. I don't see the need. I don't see what it gives me.

I don't see what it gives anyone else particularly. It's empty calories, empty really bad calories. Yeah, but I do see what it takes. And I, you know, having a child now, thinking about the world he's growing up in, and me and rose of a pretty anti-social media, I wouldn't say, you know, each to their own, fine, but for us, we're not interested in it.

You're not working on Twitter, Instagram, good for you. None of it. You're more evolved than I am. I think some people have to be, and I think in your job you do. But I think I've avoided it, and this movie does talk about that, and you can see her, by the way, Noemi, Milan in this. Fantastic, yeah. Fantastic. And I just aren't heart, by the way, too.

Yeah. She's having a good round here. Yeah, she's great. She's a phenomenal actor. But her eyes being dragged back to the screen in this movie, even when she's trying to raise a child dragged back to the screen. I think I relate to that. My phone is a huge component in my parenting now.

It wants me to look at it and not my child. And that's kind of scary. That is scary. Or it wants me to look at it with my child. What about in terms of looking at the phone for, it struck me in watching the movie? Like, every parent must Google a strange, like, theory or ailment or question. What's the strangest thing you've Googled in your early years as a parent? I think something about snot sucking.

Like, when they get a cold and this, no one tells you this, right? They get a cold and they've got a bunged up nose and you've got to suck the snot out of their nose with these, like, little motorized things. And before they had those motorized things, you had to do it with a pipe. You had to suck the snot out of your child's nose. That was a weird googling more than... That's a revelation. How to sucks, not at a child. Does it have to only be for a child sometimes?

I tried it on myself. I did. Yeah, of course you do. Yeah. I don't, you know. Any psychopath wouldn't. Can I come clean, by the way? In our past conversations,

I had never watched Game of Thrones in any of the times we had chatted. And I always felt so much stress. I felt the weight of the world in my shoulder. We're coming clean about stuff. It felt like a lot. I was like, I didn't want to say the wrong word. Do I say that I haven't seen it?

Do I fake it? And I tried to find a middle ground, and I guess we're okay. You're absolutely fine with me not having watched. No, but I have not watched it at all. Have you? Okay. I did. It's a good show, but congrats.

Thank you. Thank you. You should feel very proud. I'm proud of it. I'm finally proud of it. Yeah, yeah. Can you, okay, here's my little Game of Thrones section, and I don't worry. I won't berate you.

But this potential spinoff kind of shocked the world and shocked me. I mean, obviously it's a hugely rewarding experience you had. But apparently this was initiated by you. Can you say, like, is there unfinished business for you in this character? Is that what initiated this? Like, where is your head at in terms of trying to develop this? The only thing I'll say about that is I know nothing about it. Oh, come on.

George is talking. Sorry, George, well, George. George is allowed to talk. You can say anything? George is allowed to talk, yeah. Would it be in theory? in theory, interesting to assume that character one more time. I would be talking in riddles if I go any further.

Okay, fair enough. How about this? The new series. Are you watching or is that giving you PTSD to like watch it? Interestingly, I am and I thought I would have PTSD about it. And I really didn't. And I watched you because I was intrigued, but because Miguel is my friend and I wanted to see what he'd done with it

and I had a real kind of palpable fear of sitting down and watching it and I felt emotional and felt strange and seeing people in the costumes and me not being involved all in the lead-up of the press felt odd and then I watched it and I was like, it's a different thing

it's a different thing it's a different show, it's different people and I just felt overwhelming like support for them and real really proud of what they've done not that I should be proud because it's nothing to do with me but like I was proud for them I think that they've done a really good show and it's its own thing and it's really hard to follow up a big show like that and I think that they they've nailed it and made it their own and that's great I'm just saying if this rumored spin-off ever happens I know you're a big friends fan I just hope it's

better than the Joey spin-off. That's all I'm saying. Was there a Joey spin-off? You don't remember the Joey spin-off? No, I don't. You've blocked it out. Yes. Oh, I must have blocked that out.

Yeah. So don't go to the Joey route. You can do better. It wasn't Matt's fault. Yeah. Yeah. Where are we at on the Marvel front? Is there any, like, do you know more than when Eternals came out?

Has the game plan changed? Do you know, I know you're not going to tell me what, but do you know the plan? Yeah. I, again, and this is true, I don't know much of what they're planning. And, you know, I hope to be involved in future stuff with that character with Dane Whitman and that he might go on and be the thing that everyone quotes at me in the street. But I honestly don't know. I don't know what their plans are.

I know they're going into a kind of phase five. You don't know if you're going to spend more time with Mahershula or Harry Styles. You don't know what the... I don't know. I know that, you know, obviously, Mahershala's voices came in at the end of Eternals. But you just don't know where they. they'll take it. And really, and I mean this genuinely, and people never believe you when you say this, but they don't tell us much, really. And I think for good reason, because

we'll be in an interview like this and we'll go and spill the bean. I'll wear you down after a day of press. You're fine, Josh. I'm in blade, okay? Is that what you wanted? Can I leave now? Yeah, yeah. Okay, you're telling me the truth. I'm holding you to this. I'm absolutely pinky promise, I swear. Just looking forward, generally speaking, what's on the agenda? I know you just did some theater back home. Yeah. I'd love to see you do some theater in New York. I'm just I'd love to, yeah, I'd love to go and do something in New York. The play I did isn't going to New York. It was a kind of one-off thing in London,

and it was a dream for me playing Henry V, and I just loved that experience. I'm now looking for whatever the next play is. I don't like to spend more than two or three years away from being on stage if I can help it. And so, yeah, I don't know. whether it would be in London or New York, who knows. It gets harder and harder as your child grows up

to spend lengthy periods of time away in another city. But the right thing at the right time, maybe. Are you the type of actor that kind of makes the list of the current actors and filmmakers you're into and chase that? Or is it more sensible just to take what comes in, negotiate, see what's there? I am more of the latter.

But I'd like to be more of the former. And I think I respect a lot of your card run out. Yeah, go for it. Sorry, and I'm almost done, sorry, guys. All good, no, no, no, all good. So you're not gonna jump the D-23 tomorrow and make a big announcement about- Not unless they call me in the next five hours.

You're not jumping on a private plane right after this? No, no, no, no. That shit can happen with Marvel. They could be like, right, you're going there now and you're like, okay, I don't know. Like, I live by the ethos of, like, who fucking knows? Yeah. When they call me, they call me.

It's a weird way. That's a weird way. Yeah, that's probably the most sense of because, like, otherwise, you're going to drive yourself crazy. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You really could. Yeah. There is a bit of a waiting game nature of it.

Yeah. There is. I've got a lot of people to... You good? Yeah, all good. What was I saying? So, I know... We're back on, guys, sorry.

Um... Oh, we're talking about, like, being fans of people's work and kind of like chasing the material, developing material, versus letting it come to you. Like, where are you at right now? Like, are you actively looking for a certain type of experience, certain type of film or TV, or what? I think I'm turning into that person. Yeah. I think I've lived for a while in just seeing what comes through the door. And there's an, and my friend has a saying of the cavalry isn't coming.

You know, I've always lived like, oh, something's going to go. You know, and I think actually the wise actor and the wise creative keeps their eyes on what's going on and looks for the right filmmaker to work with next. And that is what I'm starting to do. It's hard when you've got a toddler. Yeah, I sympathize. I don't sympathize. You get to the evening and you're like, I don't want to. Because the other thing is, it's a little bit like being a chef, right?

Chefs don't go home and cook themselves an amazing meal. As an actor, I find it quite hard to sit down and watch something of an evening because it's your free time and it feels like work. You have to dedicate time to do it, and that's what I'm doing as a working practice. Just be careful because soon enough, the child will be old enough to start dominating your choices, and then you're watching a Pixar is great, but that's going to be your life for the next seven years. Yeah, maybe. I appreciate the time, man.

Toronto's always a madhouse and squeezing me into a busy schedule means a lot. The movie, I hope, gets exposed to a big audience very soon because it's a really challenging, but I was going to say fun. It is kind of a fun piece of work. It's kind of fun. It's funny and fun. And I think that you could look at this and read its description and go, oh, that's going to be bleak. But you might miss something by doing that.

Like there's some real humor in it. Big swings always. Yeah. Go after the big ones. You always do, man. Thanks for catching up today. Thank you. That's great interview.

Thank you. Anna, we're doing it. We're back. It's happening. It's happening. Well, not ready. It's happening now. Okay, great.

Well, then I am ready. You've just escaped an elevator, as I understand. This is breaking news. We're in Toronto. Breaking news. Toronto, like, secretly doesn't want me here, I feel. No, we all, like, pack into it. And it was genuinely one of those moments where we're like,

can we all fit? Yeah, why not? elevator actually got stuck. And at first I was like, we're not stuck, guys. It's just, that's too crazy. That wouldn't happen. And I'm just waiting for a very unremarkable thing where the, you know, firefighters commentating. Because we were waiting there for a while for the firefighters.

And like, I thought they would just open the door. No, we were between floors like a movie. You were built for this kind of situation. I'm in die hard, baby. It's happening. Meanwhile, I did nothing. I'm like, I'm an action hero. The firefighters are like, you, you hung limp like a baby and we saved you, you idiot.

I truly was, as I'm like, client. climbing up going like I had a very short skirt option today and I said no I don't know I just feel like I want to wear the long skirt you were a changed person I I knew the Anna before and now Anna post traumatic incident right I'm suddenly full of gratitude all the time this will last an hour and then I will immediately go back to being bitter about everything oh no I want the bitter Anna back okay great okay let's just skip the gratitude part I hate everything yes it is legitimately good to see you out in the wild in person like human beings congratulations on the the new film. Thank you. So Alice Darling, we're going to talk about. This is, uh, it's like kind of like girls trip without the laughs a little bit. Yeah. You can have that for free. It's like very grim, sad, handheld girl strip. Yeah. I was put off by the blooper reel at the end. That was surprising to me. I hate when you have great bloopers on a really sad movie. Because guess what? You still have fun on a really sad movie and you like build friendships and like have fun moments. And then you're like, no one's ever going to see these. Not even on a

if DVDs were still R-I-P. Maybe they're coming back, considering all the HBO Mac stuff. Maybe DVDs are coming back. Yeah. But even so, like, there's no blooper reel on this, but funny stuff happened. We're allowed. You were allowed, and probably needed on something like this.

Yes, very that. Okay, so talk to me a little bit about this. This is, it's an excellent performance, an excellent film that really is a much more realistic look at something I've seen in film over the years, toxic relationships. Yeah. And we've seen kind of like, you know,

the sleeping with the enemy kind of like genre version of this. Yeah, I know. I was just talking about sleeping with the enemy this morning. Which no shade of sleeping the enemy, by the way. Great film, tense. Get those towels lined up perfectly. Remember that. But talk to me a little bit about what resonated with you

about this when this one comes along. Yeah, I mean, I think the thing that you're talking about is exactly the thing that resonated for me. That, you know, the screenwriter, Alana was bringing a lot of her own experience into it, and she, like, wrote this script that on the page you could feel the tension and the poetry of it, like the kind of like anxious, oppressive atmosphere of the movie.

And there was never a sense of like, oh, but what's going to happen next? It was like very clear from the first page that this was a kind of psychological portrait. And that also meant that like the people who are going to be drawn to this movie are going to be coming into it because of that. So everybody was like bringing their A-game because everybody was coming into it really passionately, whether they'd had a personal experience with a relationship like this or very close to somebody who did. And I think everybody's either it's happened to them or they're close to somebody that it's happened to. And so, you know, it's something that sort of touches so many people.

And it meant that everybody was bringing like real heart and real specificity to the movement. And it was like this atmosphere of like half group therapy and half filmmaking. And yeah, I think we all felt like, well, we could sort of do some cheats here and take some shortcuts and make sure that, I don't know, like, that we've got like a movie movie. And it just felt like, but then why are we here?

Why are we doing this? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. bit about, because I know you've talked about how, you know, this also, as you said, you related to this as many people will on a personal level. Like, did it, did you find that in retrospect that was helpful for you? Do you feel like, oh, are you, I'm fixed now. This movie fixed me. I'm good. Oh, God. Wouldn't that be great if art fixed us? Yeah. Yeah. If art fixed people, man, artists would be less crazy. Right. So yeah, it's interesting that

draw to like work through your stuff in art and know like it's not going to fix your problems it's not a route to healing but there's still that like you're compelled to do it anyway and I do think that there's there's like value in in knowing that like oh this is sort of the movie I wish I had seen you know that kind of thing like that was what I talked to Mary the director about a lot was like, I think, you know, there are lots of portrayals of abusive relationships where people would go, well, that's not happening, so I guess I'm fine. Right, that's not a full checklist, yeah, yeah. Yeah, and like that to be in this very confusing state for 90 minutes has value because,

you know, when, like, one of the first people that saw it told me that he was like, yeah, for like half the movie, I wasn't sure if Alice was making it all up. And I was like, that's kind of the thing that I couldn't put it into those words, but it was like, right, that's what you're going for because that's the experience. Right. Well, it's a very subjective experience for an audience member. You're kind of like in her shoes, in her head, and you're kind of like, yeah, wait, am I going crazy? Like, am I, is this like, is this psychological black swans territory where I'm like losing my mind? And I guess what you're saying is, sadly, that's really the experience for many people.

Yeah, and to be subjective means that you're questioning, like, yeah, I'm watching the movie, I feel like I'm going crazy, and how much can I trust Alice? And, of course, Alice is not sure. So that was a really juicy place to be and, like, a place that we all wanted to be mining. Are the rewards of this, is it different for you to do something like this? because it's been a minute, I feel like, since you've done something, you know, not that the other stuff is... Oh, I did this for the paycheck. Yeah, exactly. The fat paycheck that I got for this.

Infinity War Endgame watch out. Alice Darley is coming for you. But, no, I mean, that is the goal, right? Is to create some meaningful art for yourself and the audience. Does this check a box just like creatively that hadn't been fulfilled in a minute or no? Yeah, well, I mean, I do think that I did go into it feeling like, Like, I had been working so much before COVID that I was getting very good at acting for Video Village

and like knowing what they wanted and giving it to them because I'm a very professional young lady. And that was like the thing that I was fulfilling on a daily basis. And to do something that is more restrained is really terrifying. I think to be very still and know that the dailies are going back

to, you know, whoever's watching the dailies and that they might be like, huh, today didn't make me go, the dailies look great. And trust that, like, it will be a whole performance is really scary and uncomfortable for me because I, you and I have a similar thing where it's like, I know how to perform, I know how to make everybody happy

and I know what they want. And I'll give it to them. And to trust that, like, I know what you want today, but what you're going to want in a year is something a little different. Yeah. And something a little more whole. And again, like, the whole exercise for me now is about self-trust. So to trust that was actually really valuable.

Is there, so the movies called Alice Starling. Has there been a, quote-unquote, kind of like a pet name that a friend, or lover or whatever has given you that you've hated like a condescending kind of in retrospect like oh I can't believe I let myself be called this oh there's something um not like a not like a boyfriend but um when girls that I don't know that well call me sweetie oh what's happening what's going on here I don't know why I'm sure that other people don't have a problem with that but there's just like there's something about sweetie where I'm like have to know me for at least seven months before you get sweetie.

I feel like in your presence over the years, I feel like I've heard a lot of like, oh honey, kind of a thing. Like, I don't know. In my present? You saying that to me or others. And I don't, and I feel like that's, that's, that's because I enjoy teasing you. Yeah, that's probably it. Okay.

So speaking of, I've- All sweetie. Exactly. Exactly. I've looked back at our thousands of conversations over the years. It's kind of an interesting time capsule of pop culture to look at like all the like, this or that, Iggy Azalea or Kim Kardashian's like. It's always like, we're always talking about what's in the moment.

So in that spirit, because you are my barometer for what's happening in pop culture, always. You keep me young, Anna. Are you watching Where are the Rings or Hasse of the Dragon? I have not watched either, which is bananas, right? What happened to you? I know, I know. This was pre-the-elvator thing. Well, I'm about to direct, so I'm in like, I'm in like movie land.

I'm watching, like, lots of 1970s movies to get inspired. But, because I am like, when was the last time I binged a show? What's going on with me? But I'm trying to, like, you know, be a professional and do my research. It's really annoying. The dating game is the film. I'm very excited for you. Okay, this is pretty soon.

You're shooting, right? So what's going to be the vibe? What's the vibe of the movie? What's the vibe of Anna on set going to be? Are you going to be? A taskmaster? Yeah. Every horror story you've ever heard, I'm going to top all of them.

That's my goal. The good news is that young female directors are given a fair shot and they always get good press. And they can misbehave as much as they want. Yeah, it's an even playing field. You're fine. Absolutely, I'll be fine. It won't overtake the movie at all. No, the vibe is, it's, you know, look, it's a scary movie.

It's been, it's based on a really enraging, harrowing, true story. And, but it's also, again, it's a script that I really responded to because there's moments of real poetry in it, and it's this really shocking framework of, like, a serial killer who went on the dating game, but it's almost like an inroad to talk about intimacy and shame and really kind of get into some of the juice of the way that you put yourself at risk and the way that, you know, and the way that this man operated. and kind of managed to slip through the cracks in the system and took advantage of that for many, many years.

Have you thought about, like, I mean, what does it fill you with when you think about, like, those first couple days that are going to be on set? Because I would imagine you've been thinking about this for a few years. Oh, full blackout. There's no way I'm going to remember the first three days. Just all adrenaline. But, I mean, you know, you're a high-energy person anyway.

I could imagine that those first few days, it's going to be just manic in the best possible way. I know. No, I actually, I feel like I have to remember to, like, I can get very, again, I think we're sort of cut from the same cloth in this way. Like, I can get very just, like, prefrontal cortex where it's just like, okay, I just need to focus on this thing and I can figure this out. Yeah. And that to, like, breathe into myself and, like, get my body involved would probably be a good idea. And to be able to, like, actually be present for the experience will be something I'll be trying to do because I know it will be.

tempting to just go into like hyper-focused adrenaline brain. I'm very excited for you. Thank you. Talk to me. So there's been no escape lately. You haven't been watching Top Gun Maverick on a daily basis just to like decompress. No, I know. Have you not seen that film?

No. I know. I know. I should be. You should be in the pilot. You don't take up much space. They can devote more weaponry. Is that a thing with pilots?

Is it like jockeys? Yeah. Well, that's a good question. Well, I'm not going to say anything about Tom's size. But, I mean, we know he's not seven feet tall. Yeah. So yeah, I think I'd be a great pilot. I'm just saying.

That's really the main requirement for pilots is to just not take up too much things. Everybody knows that. You're in. I'm just saying, like, you have never done, as much as we've talked about over the years, like, you'll have a fantasy and genre and stuff just as a consumer. You've never been in armor on a horse, and I'm ready for it.

Yeah, what the hell? That's true. Hey! Hey, world! world? What's going on? I know. Do you not chase it? Do they not think of you? I think it's possible that I'm just thought of as too loud and shrill to be on a horse in shining armor. That might be that might be the issue. Well, there were loud and shrill people in medieval times. Like just just giving speeches like today we ride. Okay. For honor for valor.

Follow me. Now. I don't know why my phone isn't ringing. Yeah, weird. I'm trying to do you a favor, just expand the options. A simple favor? Yeah. So this is, I was going to say, an unlikely franchise, but maybe not. I mean, there was always hope from the beginning.

From Paul, I think, right? Yeah, I think that, like, the idea always appealed to Paul, and I was like, well, of course it would be heaven to do more of these, but in what way? Right. How would we do that? And, like, the, I obviously can't say anything. But, like, it's so clever. It's so good. I'm so excited.

Are there adjectives you can assign to this? Is it more? Um, no. Okay, okay. I'm trying not to get in trouble, guy. You and Blake, you and Paul, the triumvirate is back. Does Ryan get in? Does Ryan Reynolds get a cameo?

Um, I mean, I imagine. That that's up to Blake. You know, she wears the pants in the film and all the time, I imagine. But you like the script. You're excited by the a... I'm very, very excited about the script. That's all happening, Anna. We're back.

As long as you can keep escaping elevators. Can you believe that? No. I'm really frankly amazed you survived. Like, really, when we got stuck in between floors and, like, because I was waiting for the door to open, and when I heard them on the top of the elevator, I was like, my life is a movie. What a way to go, though?

What a great story. In retrospect, in the years to come, I could have said. Oh, immediately. My buddy, Anna Kendrick, died in an elevator mishap. Well, I'm glad I didn't die, gosh. Me too. I'm just saying if you're going to go make it a good story. But immediately, as soon as any of this happens, like, from the microsecond of like, wait, are you serious?

We're stuck in the elevator. Immediately, I'm like, well, this is a story. Like, this is how my brain works. This is good. Talk to a story. Yeah, you're like, Fallon, got it. I'm like, today's going to be a lot of easier. Yeah, one less thing.

It's good to see you, buddy. Good for you. And so ends another edition of Happy, Sad, Confused. Remember to review, rate, and subscribe to this show on iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm a big podcast person. I'm Daisy Ridley, and I definitely wasn't pressured to do this by Josh. I'm Amy Nicholson.

critic for the L.A. Times. And I'm Paul Shear, an actor, writer, and director. You might know me from The League, Veep, or my non-eligible for Academy Award role in Twisters. We love movies, and we come at them from different perspectives. Yeah, like, Amy thinks that, you know, Joe Pesci was miscast in Goodfellas, and I don't. He's too old. Let's not forget that Paul thinks that Dude, too, is overrated. It is. Anyway, despite this, we come together to host Unspooled, a podcast where we talk about good movies. Critical hits.

Fan favorites, musts season, and case you miss them. We're talking Parasite the Home Alone. From Greece to the Dark Night. We've done deep dives on popcorn flicks. We've talked about why Independence Day deserves a second look. And we've talked about horror movies, some that you've never even heard of like Ganges and Hess. So if you love movies like we do,

come along on our cinematic adventure. Listen to Unspooled wherever you get your podcast. And don't forget to hit the follow button. Thank you.