Happy Sad Confused - Nikolaj Coster-Waldau

Episode Date: May 10, 2017

While “Game of Thrones” fans eagerly anticipate the show’s return for a seventh season this summer, “Happy Sad Confused” has a treat for you: breakout star Nikolaj Coster-Waldau. In this visit with Josh, the Danish actor gets real about his life and career, and nothing is off limits. From his alcoholic father to his ill-conceived choice to do coke to get into character for an early role, this chat is refreshingly honest. Oh, and he’s funny too! Coster-Waldau laughs about his near miss almost being cast as John Carter, why the “Game of Thrones” pilot had to be shot twice, and what fans can look forward to next season.  Coster-Waldau is currently starring in the crime drama “Small Crimes” (out on Netflix now). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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See Capital One.com slash bank for details. Capital One and A member FDIC. see. This week on Happy San Confused, Nikolai Koster Waldo on Game of Thrones, small crimes, and the lengths he's gone to for his art. I'm Josh Harwitz. Welcome to the show. Welcome to a Game of Throneserific episode of Happy Say I Confused. Our second actor, I believe, from the show after, of course. Natalie. Natalie Dormer. Thank you. Sammy, of course, joining me as always. Sammy really is the Game of Thrones expert among the two of us. You're lucky that I'm here.

So I'm sure Game of Thrones fans hopefully are tuning in because it is always a treat to hear from one of the cast members. And this guy in particular, Nikolai, is awesome. I've only spoken to him a few times on like red carpets over the years. Didn't really know what to expect, frankly, in a long form conversation. But he is delightful and kind of crazy in the best possible way. He's got a new small film. You know, it's tough with the kind of Game of Thrones schedule to kind of. kind of do things outside of that behemoth, but he managed to find time to do this kind

of cool little crime film called Small Crimes, kind of a black comedy, too, that's available on Netflix now. You guys should check it out, support these smaller films because it lets Nikolai do the bigger stuff, and he obviously wants to explore other sides of his career. So check out Small Crimes. I don't need to tell you guys to check out Game of Thrones because it's, I think, the highest-rated thing on the planet. He needs some publicity.

He's my favorite character. Is he really? Jamie Lannister? Yes. See, I know my shit. Well, I mean, oh, so we're going to talk about the fact that you don't watch Game of Thrones. I've known up to it many times, so it would be dumb of me to start pretending now that I watch the show. No, I was, thank God.

I'm not living the lie. I know it's absurd. I know it's stupid. And as I've said, many times I will watch it. It just hasn't happened yet, and it will very soon, I'm sure. But you needless to say you love the show and Jamie is a good character. I love him. Yes, I love how he's grown and changed.

And I also love that he's very attractive. I didn't notice, really? Mm-hmm. Okay, fair enough. He's got, you know, that chiseled jaw. I close my eyes during the interviews. I put my hands over my face. It's a little off-putting to the guest sometimes.

Sometimes they're like, what are you doing? And I'm like, no, no, no, no, peekaboo, ha-ha. I don't want to be distracted. Dazzled by your star power. Yeah. But, yes, of course, we do talk a bit about Game of Thrones. There's not much he can say, but it's fun to talk to him about sort of like the spoiler culture and, like, kind of that aspect of it. and him, like, you know, kind of teasing things out in the past and kind of leading people down, you know, almost like spreading disinformation to kind of throw people off the scent.

That's so fun. And he also was just so frank, like, in this conversation about his growing up, like, he's talked about this in the past, so I don't feel, you know, out of school saying this. And he talks about an interview about his alcoholic dad and how that's kind of affected him, affected him growing up and affected him as a dad now. and also like some amazing stories early in his career. There's one doozy of him making a fact. I told Sammy about it. I don't want to ruin it. But basically,

come for Game of Thrones, stay for the story about working with Clive Owen on the set of a very early film in his career and something crazy he did. So lots of good stuff in this for both Game of Thrones fans and just fans of Nikolai. I'm fans of people. Well, there's also actually a cool story.

I didn't know this. He was almost John Carter. The John Carter marred. Really? Yeah, yeah, yeah. He was apparently one of the last finalists. And how did he feel about not? Well, I think he's... In retrospect, it happened right around the same time of Game of Thrones. So at the time, he thought that was going to change his career.

He thought he was getting it. Basically, he was told he was too old for the part and then ended up getting Game of Thrones. I think it worked out for him. I think it worked out. Things have a way of working themselves out. Exactly, exactly. So without any further ado, let's hear this conversation with a Nikolai. Costa Waldo. I think I pronounced

his name right. I never did his entire name in front of him. I was a little scared of the hyphen. You don't know. Well, yeah, because then you don't want him to correct you in front of it. And it's just like, I'd rather just have it be wrong and have him not hear me say it wrong. I think I got it. I think I got him. I'm feeling confident. I always thought it was Nicolage. Don't even. You're joking?

Yeah. Okay, good. Just checking. I'm not joking. Enjoy this chat and check out small crimes on Netflix right now. You feel professional, Nikolai? Yeah. I feel good. Nikolai feels good, and the podcast is up and running.

It's good to see you, man. Great to be here. Usually, I see you on red carpets, and it's like 45 seconds in which I'm trying to get a Game of Thrones spoiler out of you. It's challenging for me. It's challenging for you. Yeah. No, it's not challenging at all. No?

That's the easiest thing about the whole thing. You know, questions about Game of Thrones. That's like, you can, yeah. That's a softball? You can just bat those away? Boy, because you just go, can't answer that question. So it doesn't feel like, because I feel like every time you're doing, I mean, you know, 70% of the press that you've done is Game of Thrones related, the last few years, obviously. So that's not like a weight on your shoulders where like there's only so much you can say and that kind of thing.

I feel like that, because you know the ulterior motive of people like me when they're talking to you're waiting for that question. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. But it's not a challenge for you at this point? No, you just want to stay away from it for as long as you can. So that's the challenge. Right. So is it strange now? And here, I completely failed because we got into it, like, within 70 seconds.

Well, don't worry. We're going to talk about your film and a lot of other things. But I just want to acknowledge the strange context of your career where you have to do press for a show you can't even talk about. I know. I know. But that's the beauty of today, because you can actually talk about the film you're in. Exactly.

Is that weird for you? No, it's great. And it's, I mean, the funny thing is it kind of is the same. I mean, you can talk about this movie only so much because you still don't want to spoil anything. And that's always going to be the... Oh my God, did you see that? I saw that. There's a monster.

There's a demon in the podcast studio. What happened? It's called the NSA. Something literally just fell from the ceiling. What is that? Oh, we've got like Christmas lights in May, in April. Isn't that nice? We're trying to kill you, Nicolai.

Sorry about that. That's okay. We're keeping all of that in. This is authenticity. You don't get this on Mark Maron's podcast. What were we talking about? Small crimes. Small crimes, exactly.

Now, by the time people hear this now available on Netflix, everybody should check it out. I would imagine, you know, it's the blessing and the curse of something like Game of Thrones, obviously, which is that you're in this amazing show, and you also have very little time to actually find other cool things to do. Yeah, yeah. Talk to me about sort of the challenge of that and what your priorities are when you do have a little pocket of time. Yeah, and then you also have this thing called family. Overrated. You've got one of those. Come on.

Yeah. No, you want to, you want to, no, that, I mean, it's, it's a great, I mean, I'm so lucky to be part of Game of Thrones. It's, you know, on so many levels, it's been nothing but a blessing. And also the beauty now is that because of it, you can, you can help movies like small crimes get made because, you know, for some reason, it gets enough attention from people with a bit of money. You got international. Well, that whole thing, which doesn't make any sense. when you think about it but hey I'll take it. Don't look at a gift horse in the mouth

what are you talking exactly I'm not your name is gold in 95 territories around the world It's absolutely you know You go to Kenya and it's solid gold You were hailed as a hero I know but but so so it's great and now

you know you look for something that just inspires me and I mean I read this script and I just thought it was so dark And I thought it was funny, but then I was like, is it just me or? Because it could also be, I need to talk to Evan, the director. It could also be like someone who actually thought it should be like a straight-up drama, in which case I wouldn't want to do it because then it would just be depressing beyond.

But then, I mean, thankfully him and Macon Blair, who wrote it and myself, we share the same sense of humor that, sometimes it's horrible things and tragedy can be really entertaining and fun. It's the perversities of life and you have to watch somebody go through hell

is kind of what the Coen brothers made their career on is watching their characters suffer. It's true. Right? If you think about it all the way from Raising Arizona it's simple, it's always about the character just like stepping on nails and getting tortured and there's nothing more, please, I love that. No, but I agree. I know I'm the same. I'm the same.

I love it. But also I take it from my own life I've, you know, I've, you know, I've had this idea for years to do a movie just about, you know, Christmas because I, as a kid, Christmas was always this thing where you just look forward to, and this was going to be the most amazing thing. And for some reason, in my, in our house, it kind of always ended up in tears or something horrible, traumatic happening. But it's funny to look back. I mean, I remember one Christmas, my, my mom and my dad, they were, you know, they were married. they got divorced, then they remarried, then they got divorced. You can kind of get the picture. It wasn't an easygoing relationship.

My dad was a drunk. My mom was in the kitchen, and I could hear my dad shouting in the living room, and he was in a fight with my grandmother. It sounds terrible. I was kind of funny. I walk into the kitchen. I walk into the kitchen. My mom is standing behind the door. She's like sobbing because she just dropped the turkey.

the food or ham or whatever. The whole roast was on the floor. I mean, it sounds really depressing. If we can't laugh about it, come on. But it was funny. Was it funny at the time? It's funny because then, no, it's, I wasn't funny at the time. No, but it's funny in retrospect because at the same time, we lived out way on the countryside.

We had this, what do you call that thing? We had an oil stove that had kind of broken down and there was suit everywhere. and the dogs were running through the suit. So we also had the dogs running around. I mean, it was a mess. Were you living in a Dickens novel? It was a Dickens novel. It was a Dickens novel.

But it's true, but it's such a depressing story. But it's actually funny because I have another story about Christmas. Please. Let's do all Christmas shows. Okay, so this is the first time my oldest sister, she left home and she got a guy, And she is throwing Christmas, in Denmark, Christmas Eve is the big thing when everyone gets together. Okay.

So my dad and myself, we're supposed to get there later. And my sister said, can you just get some wine? And I gave, and I was in drama school, I was 21. So I gave my dad the money, which was like such a stupid thing through. I don't know what I was thinking, but I was like, I don't want to deal with this. I'm like, Dad, can you do it? And he was like, yes, I can do it. So obviously my dad, he saved some money.

He got the cheapest wine you could get. Right. And he got that. Now, my sister's husband at the time, there was the first time his parents were going to be part of our family. They were architects. And they came from a really well-to-do family. And they were, like, definitely into wine. So I just remember this whole panic of just the wine, seeing the wine.

My dad was already drunk. Sure. I was lucky. I had to leave early because I had like a night porter job at a hotel, which, was in a seedy part of Copenhagen, which was actually exciting. I walked through the door. I get there at 11 in the evening, and there's a break-in happening right then. And it was amazing.

Anyway, I called back at midnight, and I just hear in the background my dad yelling, I don't want to go. I don't need a taxi. So, oh, God, this is so, all my stories are depressing today. No, I love it. It makes me go better about my own life. I know. Well, that's my aim, you know, to please.

My point of this whole thing is, I find it funny. I think there's always, all the great comedies, you know, is full of tragedy when you think about it. Yeah. You know, I can't really, I mean, even that silly, silly film I did a couple years ago called The Other Woman, it's all about horrible things happening. A guy who's, you know, cheating on everyone he can think of, and then getting beat up and almost killed. It's funny. Were you a comedy fan growing up? What was your sensibility in terms of?

pop culture and comedy. You know, it's funny. I was talking about this the other day. I remember one of the first television shows I remember was soap. Oh, sure. Which was so, I thought it was brilliant, funny. Groundbreaking, too, at the time, yeah. Yeah, and later on,

was it called Played Again, Sam? Did you remember that? Yeah, yeah, that's so funny. I mean, there's a scene there, which is also that whole thing about, his whole company is also that whole thing about a guy who's so, it's so awkward and it's so embarrassing and it's like

you know oh my God you can't you know it makes us feel better about ourselves and yet we relate to we relate our own

awkwardness and inability to cope with the world to the main character it's great it is and you do stuff that you

yeah exactly so have you so are you writing your Christmas tragedy screenplay or you well it's the thing is

as I just demonstrated now I tell this story and people go that's terrible but that's horrible man. No, I'm your audience. I see a comedy in there. Exactly.

I see nothing dramatic about it. So how are your Christmases now that you're your dad and your... Now, well, they're good. They're actually really good. Do you keep waiting for the other shoe to drop for some horribleness or are you... Oh, that's probably going to have it. I'm sure. You know, that's life, isn't it?

It's probably going to be... Oh, God. I'm not going to... No, no. But, no, we actually have some really good Christmases. We do it now. invite people over. Nice. So I'm in control now.

Do you feel like you, because you've been very open, and I know you've talked about your dad in the past, and it's nice that you kind of make light of unfortunate situations growing up. But like, have you kind of overcompensated in a way as a dad? You're obviously in a much different place than your dad was. Well, yeah. I mean, I think, you know, God knows, we're all, you know, products of our history and there's no question that certain, you know, the whole.

I have a 16-year-old and the whole introduction of, you know, when I was a teenager, the drinking, the whole thing, that's still a big part of growing up, you know, unfortunately. Oh, not unfortunately. It's just the way it is. But I do have to check myself because I am a little, you know, I've been, you know, I guess the fact that that alcohol was such a big part of my, of me growing up. our household, meant that I've, it's been a very, it's kind of not been a part of my kids growing up. So, so they, they are maybe a little too, what do you call it, innocent when it comes to sheltered a bit? Little too sheltered. So I have to, so now I'm just, every night ago before they go to bed, I say, okay, let's drink up. Yeah, let's do a shot together. So we do a shot. We do a shot before we go to bed. That's just the way it is.

All right. Don't let that talk about. Cardi Breezer, darling. Here we go. You can use that on your cereal this morning. Horrible parenting lessons from Nikolae today. So back on this character for a bit. So this is also the impulse like coming out of Thrones every whatever 10 months or something you have to do something as diametrically opposed to what you're doing. Like is that just sort of a pallet cleanser? Like I need to find something.

Not that you're going to find a similar character Jamie Lannister. No, I think I am. there's also something about I mean because now Game of Thrones it's so big now and there are so many just the nature of shooting it takes a long time and there's a lot of waiting which I mean and I don't mind that it's just that's the nature of it

you have a battle sequence and you know this is going to be we're shooting five minutes and it's going to take us three weeks yeah you're making like a giant studio films exactly and you so so it's really nice to do something small or where you focus on acting and doing scenes and you don't have to, you know, you can actually shoot five, six, seven pages a day,

which is, I think, is a lot of fun. Joe, we find in the beginning of this immediately coming out of prisons, that's a fun way to kind of start a narrative. It's always good. Right, like he's at a crossroads. Yeah, and also it sets up the story in a way that we recognize. You kind of go, this is a story about a guy who's turning his life around. he's probably going to go through a lot of tough things

but it's going to have a happy ending and we know that he's just said it because we have to believe this American character just said the only thing that matters is getting back to my two daughters and you go well we can all relate to that's that's the noble thing we want to support this guy

come on Joe and I thought that was which is great of course is that in movie world that would happen and it would be You can see what that story is. Yeah, you can see it, and you've seen it before, and those stories are great and uplifting,

and this is not quite bad. Exactly. That's the fun. There's more happy, sad, confused coming up after this break. With one of the best savings rates in America, banking with Capital One is the easiest decision in the history of decisions. Even easier than choosing Slash to be in your band. Next up for lead guitar.

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See Capital One.com slash bank for details. Capital One and a member FDIC. So, have you ever spent time in prison yourself? Are you an ex-con? Too much of love after that. What's he hiding? What's he hiding? You want to do enough?

There's a little bit of a secret. Exactly. There are three years on your resume I can't account for. Where were you? Yeah. I was just sitting in a room trying to, I need this time so I can have secrets. Right, exactly. So on an interview podcast in 20 years.

I can go, don't talk about that, man. Do not talk about that. No, I haven't. No. But you know that thing when you have an access. Yeah, man. And I spent a week, and I sat in solitaire for a week. Exactly.

Have you done that? I've done hardcore, like Daniel Day Lewis crazy thing. It taught me everything. No, I haven't. What's the most extreme length you've gone to researching a role? That maybe in retrospect seems insane or was insane at the time. I mean, I've done a lot of stupid things when I was younger. But that was more like I had this, I think a lot of actors gone through, the especially male actress, the whole idea of method.

of living it and I've done that with substance Oh no Well of course alcohol I mean and I've done it a couple of times And both what's just stupid is that It was you know

It was horrible You know both times Once was I was really young And I had to be hung over in a scene So I went out the night before And got absolutely shit-faced And then Next day I couldn't even

You can't function. You can't function. You just don't want to be anyway. You just go, oh, just getting to set was like embarrassing. And everyone is just annoyed with you, rightfully so, because you're just being a complete, unprofessional idiot. Yeah. But I've actually done that a couple times.

Then I did it with another, I could tell that story. Oh, what is it? Come on. It was my first English film. Maybe I shouldn't tell this story. No, you should. It's okay. Wait, was this, Ridley Scott?

What are we talking, Black Hawk? Yeah. Okay, so this was, I was, I was 26 or something. And it was a movie called Bent. Yes, with Clive Owen. And myself and a lot of L'Ablito, great actors. It was based on a play. Anyway, the scene is this, I'm in the first 15 minutes of the movie,

and it starts out with this, what they call the end of the world party, with this extreme decadent, extravagant, the Berlin scene of the 30s, crazy partying, and this nightclub that Mick Jacker played the, you know, the owner, and he was in drag called Berta, I think, and singing from a trapeze. And so there was a lot of drugs, a lot of coke being taken in this scene. So I thought, you know, I got to go that, you know, I got to do this. I got like, I'm not, I'm, fuck, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm like, you know. Brando, I'm, you know, brando, I'm, you know, brando would have probably slapped you around

go, what are you doing? That's probably true. Just act. Just act, my friend. But I, I, I, I, the scene was so simple. This is just where after he, the, Cliveone picks me up from this, and let me just, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not incriminating any others in this story. It's just me, okay, fair enough.

So this is not about, it's just, I, I did this on my own. So I'm, the scene is very simple. We're running up the stairs to this apartment. And the camera is down below and then just they pan with us as we're running up the stairs. So before I do this scene, I've been, been, you know, been getting my nose ready. I've swallowed a lot of illegal substance up my nose. And I think I'm ready. I'm so ready for this.

This is going to be great. This is going to be amazing. This is going to be the take that puts me. me on the map. This is it. This is going to be the one. Okay, action. And I'm running like, I'm running up. I'm running up to the top of the stairs. I'm running up. I'm running up to the top of the stairs. I'm at the door. Cut, cut. I'm running. I'm running down the stairs all the way down, up to the direction. I'm going, so what do you think? Sean, was that okay? Was that okay? Did you like that? I can do it fast. I can do it slow. I can do whatever you want.

I can also, I was thinking, you know, maybe I should fall. Maybe he could actually fall. But what if he fell? I mean, that would be pretty cool, but I would get back. I would Get back. Suddenly I feel a hand pulling me back, which is, bless him, Clive Owen, who just pulls me back and says, what the fuck are you doing? I say, what do you mean? What am I doing? I'm doing my job. I'm doing my professional. He just drags me away. You're so high. It's so obvious. You've been doing coke. What the fuck is wrong with you? Now, from being on the top of the world, in a split second, I've become the most paranoid guy in the world. I mean, what do you mean? Is it obvious? People say, oh my God. Oh my God. Oh my God. Oh, my God. I mean, yeah, I'm never going to do that again. A lot of lessons to be learned from that one. We've learned a lot about how not to have a Christmas, family good family Christmas, and how not to impress your director and fellow actors.

And also, the one thing I've never, I mean, not the one thing. There's plenty of things, but I've never been good at any kind of substance abuse. I've never been good at handling things like that. Drinking, I'm not a good drinker. I'm not a good, you know, doing Coke. Clearly not. I mean, even just smoking weed, I couldn't do that. I couldn't do that as a kid.

I did that once where I turned the last door before where people then they say okay we'll bake you a cake okay that's like great and then instead of just having a bite of cake I love cake I was 16 I ate the whole cake

I ate the whole fucking cake like then they I don't know how much stuff they put in there but I ate it all and I got so messed up in my head that I almost killed my friends I mean at least I tried to it but they were laughing so hard

so you're not good at moderation no is what I'm taking away from this and your dad was an alcoholic I think we can connect He's now lying on a couch. I don't even know where the couch came from. He brought it in here with him.

Let's talk about this, man. I need some help. What's further analyze your life and career in that your big break, quote and quote, was, I remember this, like, going back, was Nightwatch, which was a film that was, you know, he got some attention here in the States. It was very well received. It got a really shitty remake here by the director. I remember seeing the remake, and I think everybody involved in that now cops did that not being a great. I worked on the movie Black Hawk Down in 2001, which is seven years after. And Jun McGregor was in that.

And I met him. I said, so you did. And he said, just promise me, you cannot watch that movie. And I said, okay. So I've never seen it. Did you resent, because the same director that he went, I mean, I sure there were studio concerns too, but they went with you in instead of using you again? No, no, I never even, no, I, no, I wasn't that delusional.

I may be doing Coke on sets and having horrible experiences and not know how to handle my liquor, but I know enough to know that Ewan McGregor was a bigger star than me. Yeah, yeah, no, but the fact that he got to do that movie that they remade Nightwatch, it was actually like that little break I got because that meant that I, his agent, E. McGregor's agent, saw Nightwatch and then started representing me.

Oh, nice. So that was my inn. And that's how I ended up in Scotland doing Bent. Gotcha. It's all connected. Almost ODing, man, because I went all in. I think that's the story. Why isn't, that's the story, I should say.

Have you ever done anything like as a method actor? That's what I should have said. Yeah, I OD'd, man. Yeah, totally. I OD'd. I just went all in, you know, I was playing this addict, and I thought the only way to really feel it was to do it. So I, yeah.

I saw the light, man. I saw the line. I went through the tunnel. And, you know, I guess. Yeah, I just, yeah, I guess. It was just like someone wanted me back here to share my art. The gods of acting needed you back. Yeah, that's exactly what happened.

Gods of acting is a sequel to Gods of Egypt, by the way. That's coming soon. I cannot wait for that. What happened on Gods of Egypt, by the way? What happened? What's the story there? The story, well, the story is the... Because some people love the film, by the way.

It does have its extreme... Oh, no, I know. I know. I know. You know, it's... Um... No, no, I mean... Do you still processing? No, I don't think it turned out the way we hoped it would. I also think that it got a lot of, it got caught up in a very ridiculous discussion about whitewashing.

Sure, sure, sure. Which is, by the, I don't think that's a, I don't think that discussion is very important. But I think when you came, when you talk about a movie where you have a crazy fantasy movie like this, Seven, eight-foot-tall characters that turn into 15-foot-tall-flying gods, and then you have, it's not a, yeah, there's a different story. But that hurt the movie on a, you know, box office, that whole shit part of it now doesn't change what the movie was. What happened? That's such a good story. This is a no-win situation.

I think we did the best we could. And, you know, sometimes these things work out. sometimes they don't, and, you know, as the studio came out, so, so, so graciously acknowledged four months before the premiere, yeah, we should have cast someone else. What? They actually did that. Wait, to you?

No, no, they did a press release, but it was the whole wide watching, but I do remember reading that, I was like, wow, that's quite a, that's like five months before the premiere, we already, we're just, we're already distancing us. I was like, just don't forget about it. Could you please all of you forget about this movie? Real vote of confidence in yourself. I know, I know. How is it that as a Danish actor,

you've never worked with Nicholas Reffin or Lars von Trrier? Yeah, that's a good question. Why is that? I feel like clearly you're insane. You and Lars would do well together. Lars von Trier is, I mean, he is a genius. I think he's probably one of my favorite directors. He's shooting now in Copenhagen with the Euma Thurman, I know.

Oh, is he? Yeah, I'm glad he's back on the horse. Okay, good. Doing a horror movie, yeah. So that's... Hopefully he's so, speaking of sobriety, I think he, like, he had his own journey. Well, he came out. He came out.

That was amazing. I think he came out and, because he went on sobriety, and then he came out and said, it doesn't work for me. Oh, no. I hope he's, I hope he's staying up the Ligger. Yeah. But, um... Ever met with him or, or, or, or, or, or.

Reffin or anything? No, no, I met them, and Reffin is, he's a great guy. I mean, I haven't seen his last movie, but clearly he's, you know, ridiculously talented. I was an I was an, I was a, uh, apologist for that one for Neon Demon. I know it, most people

did not love that one. I really, I really dug it. Well, see, he's divisive. Yes, and that's okay. But yeah, exactly. I would prefer someone going for audacious insanity, gods of Egypt style, neon demon style. Let's go for something. Yeah. Don't play it down the middle. So, I mean, it's interesting.

Like, you know, in looking at your career, I mean, you were obviously... Can I just say also just Alex Poreas and the direct of Gods of Egypt? Brilliant guy. He had a vision. He had an idea. He really... I mean, and I'm not going to sit here trying to be... I'm not just to clarify.

I'm not trying to distance myself from the movie. No, no. You haven't said anything negative about the movie itself. It's all about the stuff around it. Yeah. Yeah, but also, I mean, yes, it didn't... It's not the greatest movie, you know, of all time. There's no question.

about it, but I, I, you know, salute Alex. He did his best. Yeah, again, he said, I mean, look, Dark City remains one of my all-time favorites. He's a, he's a good guy, and he had a vision, and I applaud him for him. This is Happy Sack Confused. We'll be right back after this. So, so in the years, you know, like, you know, we can't cover literally everything, but like, you know, for your, essentially we call it your 30s, like leading up into a Game of Thrones. I mean, you were a working actor, and you'd kind of started to break into, like, Hollywood films, really Scott cast you in a couple things. You got to probably get beaten up by Harrison Ford at some point, I assume, in Firewall. I can't remember that film specifically, but...

No, but I did. I did. I remember the... Did he murder you? Did he kill you? No, he scared the shit out of me the first day. I mean, I'd never, that was the first time I had a real taste of, of, you know, a Hollywood star, like the old school star system, which is, it doesn't, it still exists, but it, this was, we had a, we were shooting in Vancouver in this beautiful house. And then we were supposed to come out, there's a, I'd worked with the director before in Wimbledon and Paul Bettany, who played the second lead, Harrison Ford was the lead. And so we told, we, we have a rehearsal to do. And the story is, the story is. Basically, Paul Bettney and his gang, I was his right-hand man. We kidnap Harrison Ford's family, and we need him to do something. I can't remember what, but something. I'm sure it was a ransom.

So the idea is he comes home from work, and suddenly there's a whole gang of people with Kalishnikovs there. So anyway, so this is the setup. So there's a flight of stairs. Harrison Ford's coming down. I'm standing there, and he's supposed to. make sure that he gets into the living room, which is that he has turned left. So he comes, I've never met the guy before.

Action, rehearsal starts. So he comes down and he's doing that whole thing. He's walking down. And he looks angry and he's upset because he's like, how dare you guys? But he's not saying that, but you can see that in his face. I'm like, holy fucking shit, Harrison Ford. He's doing it.

It's so cool. And he comes down and I go to grab him to push him as I would because I'm like, I'm the guy in charge. I'm supposed to, he's. And my hand almost touches him And he goes, don't you touch me And I'm like, I jump back And Richard, the director goes

What, stop? What? Cut? What? He shouldn't touch me. Nobody should touch me. Okay, okay. And I'm like, what? What do you mean? I can't touch you? Don't touch me. Okay. I'm not gonna touch him. I'm not. So we do the whole thing. Now, and that was That was an eye opener

Because in that film, yeah, it was really – it was – because I came from Europe and, like, where are the director is in charge. Right. So – But when you're Harrison Ford. And also, you know, before this, I'd done, you know, Ridley Scott, and he's in charge. Yes. Harrison Ford is in charge. Harrison Ford movie.

Now, as soon as you acknowledge that, everything becomes so much easier. Yeah, yeah. Now you know who to walk to. Yeah, okay. So now it was just – it was – and also – Mr. Ford, may I touch you now? can I Can I

Can I? So actually it was great And then And then And then there was Actually he taught me A good lesson You know

There was We did a scene One day And then They called action And then he started Instead of going in We were in a room

Next To where the scene was He just picked up This magazine And started flipping Through the pages And I was like What

Why is he He really doesn't care What's it going on And then He just Through the magazine He walked to the scene and did the scene, and he came back, but then he kept doing it.

And then I thought I have to ask. This is, I'm curious. And he said, and then he gave me this really interesting answer about how he wants to trick his brain, which makes sense. You know, he says, I know exactly what's going to happen in the scene. We've rehearsed it. I know what's going to go on. I want to be as impulsive and, you know, as I can.

So I just try to start thinking of something completely different. And that makes sense. I've tried myself. I completely, I mean, I do that, and I forget everything. So I just walk in and I think about whatever I just read in the magazine, which is... You almost distract yourself. Yeah, I'm... Yeah, I'm...

It doesn't work for you because you're actually like, God, did you just read what was in Cosmo? Yeah, no, and they go, what? It doesn't work in the middle of a Game of Thrones scene. I know, it doesn't. It doesn't. But, but, but, but, but, uh, why am I talking about Harrison Ford? Yeah, I brought up a firewall and kind of the years leading up into Game of Threads. Oh, yeah, sorry.

Which you were making, it seems like a good living as like an actor starting to break threw into Hollywood. Did it feel like, or not? No, no, I mean, it felt at the time, no, I was, I was, I was, I was, I was content? Like, leading at the Game of Thrones, if I talked to you, were you like, yeah, I'm happy with my career, or were you like, fuck, man, I'm just like one away and it's never going to happen.

I was, I was, I was, I, you know, then I did after, I mean, I did a couple of pilots. That was another thing. That was another learning curve. The whole thing about pilots, we don't have that back home. The idea that you would pay for and shoot a whole. hour of something and then just throw it away was just like so I got this pilot which was a brilliant American economics for you filthy it was called filthy gorgeous which is a great title and I played I was playing a a male prostitute in New York which was fantastic and and and and but the research for

that exactly thank God that was after I did the the Coke thing because otherwise I would have been walking the streets of New York and um Funny story, Josh. Funny story. That wasn't picked up, and I was like, what? Did they just, well, that doesn't make sense. And then I did, and then I did, and then I suddenly I, I had, I had a television show called New Amsterdam that was shot here in 2007. And I did a couple of other things in between.

I also went back home, I think. I was working all the time. But you're right. I didn't get that, that thing that said, poo. Now, New Amsterdam, of course, could have been, you know. It was a network show, but it didn't. And then after that, I did a thing called Virtualology, which it was another, they called that a backdoor pilot, which was Pete Burke did this two-hour pilot for, which was the follow-up, Ron Moore's follow-up to Battlestar Galactica. Amazing script.

And I thought it was like, I was like, this is going to go. There's no, I thought it was a great part. I played the captain of the spaceship. And it was like, it was such a, there was a, the idea that this, this long space journey and the way they get through. that all the crew members had their own virtual reality and then inside the virtual reality that got infected

and Jimmy Simpson that you know from Westworld played this character that suddenly started appearing in all these virtual realities and he would start killing I mean it was so cool the whole concept I was like this I'm going to be I'm going to see it now

no it's great I'm going to be doing this for years and years and I couldn't wait and then they didn't pick it up and I was like what And then I also went to Australia did a movie with the Danish movie that anyway and then and then John Carter of Mars was going to happen and not was they were prepping

they were going to do that and I suddenly I was really close and I was so excited I thought that script was oh this is an amazing part this is like Harrison Ford on on in space that Harrison Ford Indiana Jones in space this is so cool were you up for John Carter yes I was up for John Carter I went to the very final test it was me and and and Taylor

clearly Taylor quick, quitch, kitch, and someone else. And I, but, but usually I go into these things and I go, well, okay, well, you know, but this one I was like, I actually thought, oh, I got it. I got it. Now, when I went out there for that meeting, I also had, they also said, we want to set you up for some other meetings. Now you're here.

I was like, yeah, but I really want to focus on this, but they said, no, no, you should just go and meet this guy, these guys, Dan Wise, David Beniof, Kalan Strauss, they're doing this thing for HBO called the gods of, God's a video. Yeah, and then they decided not to do Gods of Egypt, but they said, we were going to do this show called Gods of Egypt, but it's not going to work as a television show. Instead, we're going to do Game of Thrones. Why is the choice?

What do you think? And I said, and I read the pilot, I thought it was great. But the funny thing at that time, I was so, I was like, in my mind, I was like, I'm not going to be able to do this pilot. I've got the next seven movies and 10 years of my life to do. Yeah, and then when I didn't get that, the irony, of course, they said, we really, really, I even spoke to the director, And he was so nice.

You know, and a brilliant Andrew Carr. Interstant, I understand. It's just a, you know, just a genius. And he was like, you know, the thing is, it was between the two of you. Look at your age. And I was like, oh, thanks, man. But, you know, this thing, we want to do four movies, and you're going to be 4,000 years old. And we're done.

There's no way they're going to invest that kind of money in you. Oh, thank you, man. Thanks for your brutal honesty. Well, you're being honest. And I appreciate it. Couldn't you have thought of that before he brought me in. But I know, mine. Fair enough.

But then suddenly the Game of Thrones things happen. And the thing is, I didn't expect, I mean, and people say that all the time. You know, oh, we had no idea. But seriously, you didn't have an, the fact that the pilot got made was a bit of a surprise because it was so complicated the script. It was like, how are you going to make this into a movie? And it was just because the excitement was more about the fact that it was HBO, which made you go, oh, well, they have such a great track record.

Seriously, they're not going to. If this script had come in from, and no offense, but from stars or, you know, Fox, you would have gone, this is not going to be done the way it should be. What about the fact that, as I recall, the pilot, did you shoot it twice? Because Tom McCarthy did the first. Tom McCarthy, who is amazing, amazing. And I'm just watching with my kids now, his show called, what's it called, the one with the suicide. Oh, the wire?

No, no. No, no, the one on 13 reasons. Has he been directing episodes? I didn't even realize. I think he was the guy who did the first. Oh, cool. Anyway, brilliant. And, of course, he's brilliant.

So he was the initial director. But they, there was just something that didn't click. Right. So they reshot. Tim Van Patten came in and did like, I don't know, 75% that we reshot. I actually think my stuff in the pilot was, except for the, I mean, there's a version out there, the final scene with me and Searcy having being intimate and brand

coming in. There's a couple of versions out there but there's one the first one we shot had me it's a very interesting that I start coughing now I was blood naked standing and

Lena at the time was pregnant so she couldn't she had a butt of that but we had this little this Irish lassie coming in to do it. Oh God I was so embarrassing and we were all naked and I had to lift her up and it was so embarrassing but that's I think I think Dan Weiss said that he still has the original and that he wants to invite us all when when this is all done and we should all sit down and watch it I'm not sure

I can though because I know it's so horrific now this is a long long answer to your question And so, yes, no, I'd never, never worried too much about was it going to, was I going to, you know, get it. Make it or get the big thing. Because I already thought, you know, I was, I was, the thing about being an actor is that it's really tough. It's, it's, it's, you know, it's very competitive. I was making a living. I mean, I had, 1999 was a, was a really horrible year. But apart from that year, I've been making a living since I started.

And I've, you know, this October will be, I've, you know, it's my 25th anniversary as an actor. So I've been able to support myself and my family. Now, not all of this stuff that I've done has been of equal quality, but God knows every time you go and you try to make this the best movie, the best television, whatever you do, you try to do as well you can't. But it's just the thing about Game of Thrones, it could have turned into something not great. It's just a combination of a million different factors that suddenly make this,

Oh, that turned into a great movie. Do the producers ever tell you to actively spread disinformation, to spread an actual, like, a lot? No, but it makes it fun, though, to do that. You do that on your own. You enjoy kind of, like, dangling something that could, that you know the web is going to explode. Yes. Well, but, well, more that. Can you think of a specific example when you did that?

Well, the first time I did it was not so much spread of misinformation about the show, but it was my friend and I, we're both fans of, of, of, Leeds United, which is a soccer club in Europe, and we did this at the time. Leeds have gone through a bit of a rough 15 years and going through so many managers. At the time, there was a guy called Dave Huggaday who kind of, I think he just walked through the wrong door one day and suddenly a guy is saying, do you want to be the manager? And he said, well, what? Sorry? Where am I? I thought I was going to go in for medical. And then suddenly he became the manager of Leeds United. Anyway, Joe, I was going to the Comic Con and he said, I dare you to mention Dave Huggaday's name.

So I came up with this story that Dave Huggaday was my was Jamie Lannister's sword trainer and that he taught me everything I knew about fighting with swords. And that became part of his Wikipedia and it became a story. I was like, wow, it actually gets picked up. This is interesting. And then I did another one a couple years later when I was in Stockholm to impress for something else

and in the hotel room we were doing this thing there was a little a little thing a toy duck that I then looked and I said and by the way I just want to you know this is

just for all the Game of Thrones fans I don't want to go into specifics because I can't it would be spoiler but I'll show you this duck and then I think you can connect the dog something to that effect. That's just rude.

And it became like a big thing, which is funny, though. What was the last thing I did? What fake rumors should we spread for the upcoming season? What tantalizing non-detail do you want to spread? I mean, it's funny. I was just been talking, what? I've just been talking about this,

but the funny thing is that, you know, I was mentioning this to someone else, that everything is out there online now. I mean, everything you want to know about, if you really want to know what happens next year you can find it right now of course you have to know to what to look for that's the that's the trick but I think that the biggest rumor would be that um um um um because because because every year you talk about who who's going to do you talk about who's going to

die because there's so many characters that die every year, right? And you always think that, you know, you want to guess. I mean, like, if I asked you, who do you think, if you have to pick someone who didn't make it through season seven, there are many candidates. I don't know even where to begin. I know. But I mean, okay, can we, there are certain candidates that you know will not die, right? At this point, do we? Well, you know, the only one I would say, I don't think he's going to die would be John Snow. Because that would be, you know, that would be silly wouldn't you bring him back and then kill him again you're gonna go but it'd be the ultimate twist

it would be a good twist that's true but I'm just saying he's not going to die okay I don't think so so that that's your spoiler for the season no but I'm trying to come to a spoiler but you need to help me though so I can so I can just say it out loud but you have to come up with some suggestions and then

my answer might be enough for people to deduct the truth um Jamie and Circe live happily ever after and everything's cool That's, oh, well, maybe you're not so far from the truth that you thought you would be. See, the beauty is you can say anything, and we can all just read whatever. I mean, and also the thing nobody wants to know.

Exactly. I promise you it's going to come as a, you know, this is, the story continues. So what are you looking for, okay, in the wake of, and there's a finish line in sight for Thrones. You have a film like small crimes that's now out on Netflix. Like, what are you looking for in terms of your own career? Are you starting to kind of think about like things like small crimes that exude a certain... I mean, is there a criteria or is it just sort of like, I want to be surprised, I want to do more comedy? I mean, what is it?

Yes. Yes to all. Yes, too. No, I want to do different stuff and I want to be surprised. And I don't have, I mean, these are famous last words, I don't have a huge desire to do like big, big green screen heavy movies. I did with God's of Egypt. I had a fantastic time. But I just think that it takes so long and you spend so much time not really getting

into what I love about my job. I mean, and I get to do the actual work. Doing the actual acting and doing scenes. Like how long was the shoot for small crimes? For small crimes was six, 25 days. That's pretty great. So you're doing like four page days pretty much, something like that. And it was amazing.

And it was so intense. And I have another movie that comes out in August called Shot Caller, which was also. the same length of time of 28 days and also very intense and a lot of fun I did a movie in Denmark that comes out this, well in Denmark it comes out next month called three things

we shot that in 15 days I mean it's not like I just want to do short shoots I want to do the work and I just that's what I find that's what's fun for me and then I also want to you know I want to you know I spend a lot of time

now developing stuff finding scripts, finding stories, and then, you know, trying to get behind the camera a little bit, because that's interesting. By the way, speaking behind the camera and other creative pursuits, I read your New York Times article. You're a New York Times author. It was a great piece. Thank you. And very, like, you know, about your mom and about kind of consumerism.

Where did that come from? How did that even, like, happen? Well, it was, it was a story that came, I mean, because of, they, because of, you know, small crimes, you do, you know, getting attention out of then. And New York Times have this thing, whole thing called the first time I, and it could be anything. Got it. First time I did whatever it was. Did Coke on a set.

And that was my first choice. And then I thought maybe not. I'll say that for the podcast. And then I don't know why I came to think of this particular story, but I did. And I, because clearly it's important to me. But also, I mean, my, well, I just, I don't know, I just to find this, this is an interesting thing because I, the whole consumerism, the whole, you know, because I'm as much part of it as anyone else. And that thing about my mom who just checked us all for a second there was easy to just laugh at her go, come on, you know, it's just we need to, we need this, we need this. And then after you go, maybe she has a point.

Yeah. I mean, I know she has a point. Did it take you some time to realize that mom had a point? No, I've known that forever, but you kind of forget. You know, the funny thing, you know, you have to, I guess also that whole thing about getting older and, you know, having a bit of experience in life is that that's one of the things that you find out that doesn't really matter. Those things should matter. And then the things that really have value in for all of us is the stuff when you sit down and talk with your friends. There you go.

Right? I think so. That and talking of small crimes and Game of Thrones. Those are the really important things. That's obviously important things. And then family. No, but it's funny because, you know, I am, because now I've been doing like you do these, these, these, these press tours where you talk about. And this is by far what I enjoy the most.

I did this with you, and then the other day I did one for like a half hour thing. Yeah. And I enjoy this much more because you actually get to talk about it. And then you get to say stupid things and make mistakes. But you know what I mean? It's human and it's real and it's like you can go on tangents. When you go in for those four minute, five minute talk shows, whatever, you know it's so, it's, there's so much pressure on this. It's a performance.

It's a performance. Yeah, exactly. It's not about, you know, having a connection. It's about delivering something. Well, I want to end in this moment of connection with a confession. Great. I forgive you. I've never watched Game of Thrones.

You're like my wife. Is that true? Yeah. Do you still like me, okay? Am I all right? Yeah, and I still love my wife. No, I don't, I don't. It makes no sense.

I should love Game of Thrones, and I will love it when I watch it. It hasn't happened for some reason. There's so many great shows out there, though. No, it's needless to say, it's the top of the list, and I don't even get it. I don't understand myself, Nikolai. So what shows have you watched the last year that you can recommend? Most recently I caught up on Veep. I'd never watched V.

Oh, man. Brilliant. I'm addicted. It's funny because people ask me, what do you binge watch? Well, I can't wait to binge watch this. Well, I can't, you know, I have to watch it when it comes out. Now that it's, I mean, I've never seen the first four or five. Every Monday, I'm like, I can't wait for this to go online.

The same with Silicon Valley, those two shows. Anyway, go on. That's the most recent. I'm trying to think of what else I've... What about last year? Last year. I did Stranger Things. It was great.

I don't know. What about you? Give me, what have you been watching? Well, last Atlanta, I saw that. I haven't seen everybody loves it. I know I need to. Yeah, no, it's good. And, yeah, strange things as well.

I love that. Would you want to do another series? Is that something like, you've kind of been the pinnacle of series. Is that... Yeah, I don't want to do another... No, I'd love to do another, I'd love to do a comedy. I mean, but the thing is everybody, you go, yeah, I'd love to do something like that. And then, you know, you can't, that's the recipe for disaster.

The whole thing is about. Do something original. Exactly. And that's tricky. But, no, I mean, I, in small crimes, as you know, Gary Cole is in it, who's also in VEP, who's so amazing. And the funny thing in small crimes, it's probably the hardest part in the whole movie because he comes in. He's the guy who has to give us so much information. Right.

And it has to be entertaining. Boy, I mean, that guy just delivered. He's so funny and sharp. Anyway, yeah. Office space. Can never go wrong. No. Exactly.

It's been great catching up with you today. As you see, yeah, I like yourself, I can't stand the whole junket thing. I've done it too long. So this is a treat for me to kind of have an extended bizarre, random conversation with you and go off on tangents. And you're a great storyteller and super frank and a great actor. Congratulations on small crimes. everybody should check it out on Netflix and I promise I'll catch up

on this other little show of yours at some point don't worry about it. We'll talk about it next time. All right, good to see you, man. Good to see you. Thank you. And so ends another edition of Happy, Sad, Confused. Remember to review, rate and subscribe to this show on iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm a big podcast person.

I'm Daisy Ridley and I definitely wasn't pressured to do this by Josh. This episode of Happy Sad Confused was produced by Michael Catano, Mukta Mohan, and Kasha Mihailovich for the MTV Podcast Network, with additional engineering by Little Everywhere. You can subscribe to this and all of our other shows on Apple Podcasts, Stitcher, Google Play, Spotify, or wherever else you find your favorite podcasts. American Giant does things the hard way, but that's because it's the right way. By choosing to manufacture all of its clothes in the United States,

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