Happy Sad Confused - Oscar Isaac

Episode Date: March 19, 2019

Oscar Isaac might seem like the busiest actor working today but don't cry for him, he's actually on a break, and luckily for us he's taking a break from that break to catch up with Josh about his new Netflix movie, "Triple Frontier"! Plus, Oscar and Josh talk everything from "Star Wars" and "X-Men" to his next gig in Denis Villeneuve's "Dune".  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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So thrilled to bring you first-time guest on Happy Sad Confused today, Mr. Oscar Isaac. Oscar has been on the must-get list for quite a while. I frankly thought it would happen sooner because he's a New Yorker, so you figure he's around. I've done a bunch with him on camera. He's a chill guy. But part of the problem is he's so freaking busy lately. The last few years, he's actually not been in town much.

But finally, the stars aligned. We found some time. He came by and we chatted about, I mean, you just heard me tease it all, about four of my favorite different things. What did I say? Star Wars, X-Men, Dune. These are like all the good things in the universe. He's a part of them all. He's just doing, he's killing it. Oscar Isaac, one of my favorite actors working today is the guest on today's Happy Say I Confused. I should say frequent podcast regular Sammy, you know her and love her from the intro. She hasn't been on in a while. Our schedules have not aligned for a while. We're working at different places. It's just

It's just craziness. She wanted to convey to the happy, sad, confused listenership, how devastated she is not to be here for this one. Because as I was walking over here to do the intro today, I let her know that Oscar was the guest, and she basically had a full-on breakdown. Because, unbeknownst to me, she, like many of you,

is in a full-on Oscar-Isaac obsessive state. And I get it. He's charming. He's talented. He sings. He's got it all. He's got a good beard. I mean, come on.

What more can you ask for in a human being than Oscar Isaac? So, sorry, Sammy, that you weren't in his presence, and hopefully the next 45 minutes of conversation will soften the blow of not being around him. But this was a fantastic conversation. So his new film, for those I don't know, is this really strong ensemble piece called Triple Frontier. It's from J.C. Chandor, who did,

margin call, all was lost, and a Most Violent Year, which was his previous collaboration with Oscar, a really underrated movie, by the way. Maybe not underrated, just a little scene. It got great reviews, but just it didn't get the box office it deserved. Check that one out. This one stars Oscar, Pedro Pascal, Ben Affleck, Charlie Hunnam, and Garrett Headland. There's a fair amount of testosterone for you, right? It's a, it's an intense, kind of a thriller action movie about five guys, all kind of friends, colleagues through the years who are kind of chewed up and spit out by the system. They've all worked in the military, and they kind of agree to take down a drug kingpin to basically get some money in their lives and change their lives. And it

all goes to hell. That's not a spoiler. You can guess where it goes. But you actually can't guess all the twists and turns this one takes. It's a really compelling film, and I highly recommend it. And it's on Netflix. So it's in your home. It's on your TV. It is waiting for you right now. Check it out, Triple Frontier. But as I said, we cover a lot of ground in this conversation. Oscar, you know, for a little background, was born in Guatemala, raised in Miami, came through New York to the infamous Juilliard School, like maybe the most prestigious acting school in the States. Got to know our, another one of my favorites, Jessica Chastain here, did a lot of theater, and then, you know, did a bunch of cool films and then exploded thanks to being cast in the

lead inside Lewin Davis, that classic Cohen Brothers movie. And since then, so many huge opportunities for him. Of course, he stars in the Star Wars films as Poe Dameron. Yes, we talk about episode nine a bit in this. He starred as Apocalypse and X-Men Apocalypse. We talk a lot about that and why that role was so meaningful for him and why it was also kind of took a toll on him. And we talk about his upcoming stint with Denis Villeneuve in a film. I've talked about a lot on this podcast, his upcoming reimagining, reinterpretation of

Dune. And I could not be more excited about that one. That's, of course, Timothy Shalamey and Josh Brole. and Javier Bardem and Rebecca Ferguson and Oscar Isaac. So, yes, we tease a little bit about what's to come in Dune. So, oh, and I should mention, I know a lot of people got really excited about Oscar talking about Middle Year Solid. We talk quite a fair bit about that in this conversation, too.

So something for everyone in this chat. I hope you guys enjoyed as much as I did. Remember to review, rate and subscribe to Happy, say I confused, spread the good word. a lot of good things afoot, a lot of good things happening on the podcast, and in my MTV and Comedy Central shenanigans, just did a really cool, extensive sit-down interview for MTV with Jordan Peel, the director of Us and Get Out. That's going to be online very soon. I will, of course, send that out on my social media, Joshua Horowitz. Yeah, some really cool stuff. And some events out of town coming up.

There's Star Wars celebration around the corner. There's Cinemicon, which is always a lot of fun in Las Vegas. So yeah, they're keeping me busy here, but all in a good way and all hopefully for your amusement and enjoyment. So that's about it. I hope you guys enjoy this chat with Oscar Isaac. Here it is. Mr. Oscar Isaac has invaded my space.

Welcome, sir. Hello. It's good to see you, man. Thanks, man. Good to see you too. feeling slighted because you are local and you do work a lot but I guess that's the problem you're working a lot like you probably actually aren't here that much anymore I'm not I mean this is the this is the this is the first time I've been here for this long yeah I've been home for say I since

January oh that's amazing yeah yeah so you're living an actual human yeah like a real human human man what's that trin of you do you need to go out and do work you're like I'm not equipped to be a human man I need to just know it's been fantastic it's been great yeah it's been really great. And I had, you know, taking a lot of the year off, I'll be traveling to Iraq as soon. But until then, I just get to be home. We were just kicking out before the mic started about Dune, which I couldn't be more excited about. You see the poster I haven't here. It made an impact on me as a kid. We'll get to that in a bit. There's a lot to talk about. Triple Frontier. It's a new film. I really enjoyed this one. I'm a big fan of J.C. Chandor,

who obviously you've worked with before on the brilliant yet not, I think probably not enough people ever saw it, most violent year. Go back and check it out. It's probably on Netflix too. Possibly. So, okay, so let's start with Triple Frontier. This is a hell of a cast. This is one of the scripts that's been like around. I remember following

this one, like every actor worth his salt wanted in on this one. When you finally read the script for this. And I beat them all. That's how it works. It's a fight club of actors. Yeah, that exactly. I was like eighth string. I was like, I was deep on the... No, it's actually totally true. I was deep, deep on the bench.

on this one. But when you did get your hands on the script where you're like, oh, I get it, I get why so many actors have wanted to be a part of this one? Yeah, I think so. I think, yeah, there's something that feels throwback about it.

You know, they don't really make movies like this that often anymore in the scale of it. The fact that it was this, it is this action movie, but it's a character-driven piece and that J.C. was doing it, and he's got very good taste, particularly in the editing room.

So, yeah, so I think it makes sense, why people were really interested in diving into it. And it really deals with the special forces, I think, in a very understated but truthful way. Yeah. And I don't think you see a lot of movies that deal with just like the actual... Because the real guys... What happens to these guys? Yeah.

Or kind of used up and then spit out. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And then done, you know, it explores that in, I think, in a non-clicate kind of way. Because that's how these guys were. I mean, it was really interesting because I have all my adolescent. and ideas of before coming into it about what these guys were like and then actually meeting them they were soft-spoken and incredibly humble and I mean this one guy RJ Casey was incredible

dude and still working down in South America still not sure exactly who he works for what he does right but uh you know he he looks like just like a surfer dude he was like about my height small build uh really soft-spoken and the guy is like one of the most lethal people on the planet And so it's just amazing, like, these people blend. And I remember him saying, like, the guys that are all, like, jacked up, those are guys that actually have the time to go to the gym. The real people that are out in the field, you know, they don't necessarily look like, you know, these kind of, like, muscle fitness models. Right. This might be the most testosterone-heavy film since going back to our mutual youths predator.

I always think of predator when I think of, like, the, like, because I always hear, I don't know if you have. Dues in the Jungle. Well, also, those famous stories, like, I don't know if you've heard them, like, of, like, of Arnold and Carl Webb. weather's like at the gym like flexing and trying to like outlift each other I want to imagine that it was the case for this one but probably not um no I there was there I have videos of Garrett and and Pedro singing Milana in the gym at least or no just yeah while holding assault rifles oh god there's quite a bit of that mine fuck okay who is most at peace being shirtless all the time who wanted to who wanted to just

you off a little bit. Well, it's a toss-up between Garrett and Charlie. Those guys Yeah, they put in the time. Like a bit of flesh. Like a bit of sunshine touching their flesh. Was there a, what was the initial moment when you saw the Phoenix

tattoo in the back of Ben Affleck? Was it a hushed, like, reverence sunset? Like, oh my God. No, it was this really funny thing that we all had to go we all had to basically go to a swim class because they needed to make sure that we wouldn't drown if we just like touch the water. Basically we all had floaties on and they're like they kind of put it like it was training

but it was really just like go jump in the ocean and just prove that you won't die. Right. And so that was what we did. So yeah, that's when we all kind of those, I guess, the paparazzi shots came out. Somebody on the team tipped them, I think. But yeah, it was an impressive thing to behold. Do you have any tattoos?

I don't, yeah. Have you seen any tattoos of yourself by now on other people's bodies? I did. Someone sent me a picture of a Poh d'Amaran tattoo. Yeah. There must be. Yeah. It was impressive.

I mean, that's half the reason to do, Star Wars. I mean, that you've defaced someone's body for all eternity. Exactly. You've been a part of a really horrible choice of somebody else. No. I will live for maybe about 20 years, maybe about 10 years until it starts to melt and look a... Right. So we're talking about how, like, how, like, this script, like, pops off the page and, like, is, like, kind of a no-brainer.

What percentage of scripts that you get, like, are actually really this good? Like, what's, what's the batting average of the stuff that you see? Well, it's, it's a tough thing because it's, like, what, yeah, like, sometimes what reads really great isn't necessarily what's going to make a great movie either. You know, I think it was Willem Defoe, actually, who I was talking to, and he was asking him by, like, how do you? choose stuff because it's going to be so difficult and you can read something that's great you know that's really great but then maybe if the director isn't really proven like what do you do do you side with the director do and he's like he's like for him it's really just like does it have the space not even the character or the dialogue or any of that but like does it have the space to create to really

explore something and create something and have the the situation that allows for creativity yeah something strange and special to occur uh as opposed to to just like, you know, these guys say really cool things and then this happens and then this happens and then this happens. Those are all really exciting things, you know? So, and that's that's really coming from a performer as opposed to, obviously, a director.

Not a trained monkey that just wants to like go out there and just do the lines. Yeah, you know, but sure, but also like whereas a director clearly has to have a bit more of a sense of I think of the whole scope of the thing and the whole tone and it's difficult for me because I kind of came from a place originally where I thought I was going to be

or, you know, it's still possible, but I was interested in directing. And so I do tend to kind of see things in the bigger picture. And it takes some unlearning to be able to be like, I don't know what's happening. I'm just here. And, you know, right. Well, one point, you're also putting your hands, your fate in the hands. Like, if you look at the filmmakers you, in particular, the last five or six years have been able to work with. It's like, if you're going to, if there is some space in the margins, trust the filmmakers you're with to help fill those in. Yeah, for sure. And with JC, you know, it's like the script was this one for Chippler Frontier, it, you know, no brainer to a certainness.

extent because there was interesting things, but also it was very challenging because, you know, there is not a ton of dialogue or, or, or, or, or backstory that you get to see about these guys. So there was a, there was a, there was an element of, of like, well, how do you show who these people? How do you not make them anonymous? Like that didn't necessarily just jump out of the page. And so a lot of that is trusting J.C. and particularly trusting him in the edit. Yes. And I think that's where he's just, he really shines a lot, which is like, you know, you can feel,

you can trust that you can try a bunch of stuff. stuff and things can might might not go great when you're shooting during production you know there was definitely a lot of like wrestling with ideas and and things but in the edit he sticks with it and he stays at it and he you know he's relentless i like that have you noticed that you probably were aware on the set even like this is part of like the shared jc chandor cinematic universe that there are like references to the oil company from the most violent year i know that was i got to say that was me i was like can i can i wear the standard hat and then he started thinking he's like yeah maybe and then he's like it's too much but pedro can wear it

Just enough. Like, all right, okay, all right. Okay, so going back since the luxury of this kind of conversation is we can go back a little bit. So, born in Guatemala, raised in Miami, I'm curious, like, you know, your dad, a doctor, sister, I believe, a scientist, right? So, like, who in the family or friends or family was the biggest influence on you in terms of the arts growing up? Who introduced you to films and my grandmother, my mom's mom was a singer in Guatemala and she had records and everything. But she gave all that up to have kids and to, you know, do what she was expected to do at that time in that place. My mom would tell horror stories of, like, her and her sisters, like, just, like, finding her records and, like, just destroying them and, like, playing with them and breaking them and scratching.

And she just was like, it's fine. So I'm just like, how, my God, how could we not have that? But really, it's my father. My father was a musician as well. he was always playing guitar he was in bands he would record music and write music all the time he was a stereo file and so it was like constant new component stereo pieces coming into the house suddenly we'd be like what the hell is that it's like that's a speaker we're like really there goes your toys we don't have room for that anymore exactly so he was really into that

for a long time i'm afraid to say that i have inherited this quality lately that's what i did with my first few paychecks is keep got to get the AP equipment up to stuff that's right that's right what are the cables

I gotta get the latest cables um and we run this over here I can have a full surround sound exactly and so and then he also would make movies with his brothers

he had like a super eight and he would like make movies with his brothers and then we got a video camera and so I we would make movies together and then I started taking my dad's video camera

and making movies with my friends And so that really was it. And both my mother and father never once were like, you need to do this or you should pay more attention to that. They just were like, you know, you need to write some encouragements and freedom. Yeah. So you like me, a child of the 80s, bigger influence, Pacino or Van Dam growing up. Equal.

Really? Yeah, Van Dam, I got to say it was first love. Oh, I mean. Yeah, first love. That could have been one of his films. Spurs love. I remember double love. Yeah.

Well, let's peek Van Dam for you. I remember, I remember really getting close and trying often to do the straddle. I had to do it with like a pole. So it was kind of like a pole dance, really. But I really was intent. For those that can't see Oscar right now, he's actually doing the splits on my desk. That's pretty good, right? Oh, God.

That's pretty good. I can't get out. I can't get out. Here, let me help you. Oh. Okay, he's back. Does that smell? Something came out.

So, what were we saying? Peak Man Down? Double Impact. Bloodsport. I think Bloodsport, Cyborg is always going to really, it always is going to have a special place. But say Bloodsport, Bloodsport Cyborg and Kickboxer, kind of those three were. I do like, I kind of like late, not, I mean, late by that era standards. I would like Time Cop.

I feel like Time Cup is an actual decent movie. Yeah, as a decent director, Peter Himes, is it actually decent filmmaker. I know, I know, I started, it started, I started, I think at that point, Teenage Mutuals came out and I kind of became more, more of that kind of guy. Right. Sam Rockwell and Teenage Mutual Newsrooms. I know, I know. Man, I know.

So, okay, so this, is this? Something's haven't changed. It's still, still pure Rockwell. Winstons or, I forget what it's there. Oh, man. So, okay, so when do you, when do the filmmaking taste? kind of mature. When do you kind of go to the dog day afternoons, the Lumet

the dog day well see my dad would always bring like I remember it was so exciting because every Friday night he'd come home with like a new brown case from the video store and we had a beta max and that's like it was like karate kid, never ending story and then you know

it was like deer hunter and made a quick jump yeah yeah really fast jump and yeah so that kind of that kind of sort of I'd say like 11, 12. Okay. You know?

Yeah. It's that sweet spot of like seeing the movies that you're just a couple years too young to actually see that will impact slash scar you. Yeah. Yeah. And the first, I think the first one that really was like, oh, my God. You know, legend was the one that kind of made me really get excited about acting because I realized that the same actor that was the devil was also the butler and clue. and that that realization was like it was staggering and like it blew my little kid mind you know and later you wore the exact same prosthetics in x-men apocalypse exactly exactly the exact same one i mean

kind of yeah i know i know i know it was wild it was wild then i mean i started like reading about how he'd have to be in this bath of like yeah of whatever it was to get all the glue off it sounded awful awful and indeed from what i gather ex-men apocalypse yeah yeah it was brutal It's a more traumatic. But anyway, so yeah, and then it was the mission. I think the mission became, like, my first, like, real, serious, boring, favorite movie. But great music? No, it's fantastic.

And you Morricone is that soundtracks incredible, and it's still one of my favorite movies. Yeah, beautiful. Okay, so jumping ahead. And then Dog Day Afternoon, which it, like, took, yeah, that was, I'd say, like, I was, that was a little older. I was, like, 17. Got it. And then that hit me, and it just, it has stayed as the perfect. It's just perfect.

in every way. Yeah, it's on that short list. Okay, so jumping ahead. So you're acting in high school before you get to Juilliard? You have to do a little bit. Juilliard is not something that just happens out of nowhere. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was acting like fifth grade, sixth grade,

seventh grade, doing like school plays. And then high school acting when I was a freshman, but then had a falling out with a drama teacher. What's the big disagreement when you're... It was like, I was going to... It was like a philosophical like... Yeah, I was going to... to be, I was going to do a play, and then, and then, uh, and then I decided not to do it for

a number of reasons. And then I think she just got pissed off and thought like, who are you, you can't just like pass. You know, after you said you do, you know, it's like people depend on you and blah blah. And then, you know, I was, you know, I was a big, a little bit of a punk kid and whatever. So I, like, I didn't want to do it. And, and then I kind of stopped, you know, like, going to auditions. It stopped getting cast. And like, and then I, that's when I went into more bands, and I was, like, in the music. Right. But me and my buddy Jay, who is now, has been my assistant forever. Like, he comes to all the movies with me, and me, you know, me and him made tons of movies.

And we used to, there used to be, like, the video announcements. I don't know if you had that, too, like, video announcements, yeah. And, you're like, yeah. They didn't keep me in the basement the entire time. Yeah. And we would make, we would do the, uh, the commercials or like the coming attractions for the school play. Nice. And oftentimes they were like, weirdly violent.

And oftentimes they were like, we're not playing this on the announcements. You've got someone being beaten in a closet. I don't know what you were going for. Congratulations on exploring. Whatever it is you're exploring. Not for the rest of the school. Exactly. Yeah.

So yeah, tons of movies there. And then, and then I started audition. in Miami as well for like actual pro stuff is that is that when you got the uh the coveted role of detective fartman yeah that was shortly before julyard uh yeah before even that i had a had a featured extra part in the crew oh i don't remember the bret reynolds richardtreyfus i just slipped by me i apologize semore cassel nice cast okay uh who else loggia no with loggia in it i can't get you just glossing right by detective fartman interesting and going to the throttle i was i was on my way to fart man that's where

you know have you scrubbed the internet because I cannot find any video from that film Lenny the Wonder Dog? Lenny the Wonder Dog nothing yeah no I mean I remember and I was in college and my roommate brought it home to watch much to my horror I was damn good at it

well I mean the secret weapon yeah yeah um okay so Juilliard I've talked to many actors about JuliaR infamously a tough road for many people they kind of break you down it's kind of just part of how it is So who was your crew? Chastain was part of the group? Yeah, she was, she was, uh, in her third year when I was in my first year when I first came in. Well, she obviously, like, had the goods. Was she like somebody in people? Of course. I mean, like, apart from being like staggeringly,

you know, just like luminescent. Yeah. Yeah, she was incredible. Everybody, everybody knew it. Uh, who else? Is Mackie, you know, Mackie had graduated already. Okay. Um, I mean, it's, it's, You can still hear a screams, though, from the crossland. Yeah, yeah, for sure, for sure. But, no, in my class, you know, there's great, great people, Routina Wesley. Yeah, yeah, yeah. She's on True Blood, right? Yeah, yeah.

Jessica Collins. And, no, I mean, there was, it was, it was really intense, but beautiful. For me, I really, really loved it. And I think because I got there and I was a little older, a lot of the, the, you know, like the psychological games and those kind of things, they were able to roll off my back of kind of easily. You had already been beaten down a little bit by life. Exactly, yeah.

Life had already stripped away all of that, you know, in a sense. Idealism, yeah. Yeah, an idealism. So I was able to kind of take that stuff with a grain of salt. So coming out of Juilliard, I mean, it seems like you did a bunch of plays. I noticed one really early review. This is two gentlemen of Verona from Variety. Do you remember this?

Yeah. I remember, just to I'll say this. Yeah. I remember I was like, I'm not reading reviews to my family. I was like, I don't want to hear the reviews. I don't want other reviews. And my uncle, I remember called me the next morning. It's like, hey, I was like,

I just, I know you're not reading reviews. I just want to say, I looked up the word impish, and it's not that bad. This one doesn't cite impish. It's got a little bit of everything. And then before that, the last one was like, I was walking out, I was walking after one of the shows. And one of the ushers came up, and he's like, hey, we watch your, you know, all of us, all the ushers are working here. We really love what you're doing. It's so good.

And we all kind of sit down and watch it every night. I was like, oh, wow, thank you. He's like, yeah, man, don't listen to what the village voice said. Yeah, the implicit is that. He says like, I don't care what everybody's saying. We like it. Yeah, Variety said, recent Juilliard grad, Isaac is suitably slyzed, the opportunistic and morally proteus, but his vocals could be stronger, and he plays the double-crossing cat, a touch-to-fei.

Touch-to-fei. Wow. That would not fly in the current climate, you know? Just pay enough, I said. Give me more fay. Okay, so, you know, we don't have the kind of time to talk about everything. But in the years before, Luan Davis, you're working with some amazing filmmakers. I mean, you work with Ridley Scott a couple times, speaking of legend, Catherine Hardwick.

Ridley gave me, like, a first big, big shot. So, yeah, I was going to say, which of those films felt like, oh, shit, like this is a big transition? Is it Body of Wise or Robin Hood? Which one are you talking about? I know, I mean, Body of Lives came first, but no, it was Robin Hood because of the role. It was King John because it wasn't, you know, the sixth. Yeah, the sixth ethnic guy in the cast. You know, it was like, it just with the amount of trust that he had to me is someone that, I wasn't, I wasn't English.

You know? Yeah, yeah. And, and, yeah, that we did Body of Lives. And from that, he could see me as King John was just like, I couldn't believe it. It was so incredible and really have so much, so much affection for him. Yeah. What's, you're one of the few actors that's had the privilege of being directed by Madonna. Yes.

What was that like? What does she like as a filmmaker? She was on it, man. She was incredible. I remember there was this one scene we were doing at Sotheby's, because of the auction house, and she lined up all the extras. I mean, there were like, you know, 70, 80 people, and she would just go down the line with every single one.

It would be like, no, yes, this one, but we need to change this part of their costume. You know, it was incredible the amount of detail. Also, I was like, people, we're not going to see all those people. It's like, aren't there other things that we should eat them? But it was just like her attention to detail. was astounding and to have the energy to do that. She was so energetic and really fun. And I felt like, I don't know, I was really rooting for her the whole time

because it's just by the nature of who she is. There was already so much shit to have to get through, you know. It's like anybody else that was directing the same movie and made the exact same choices, you know, it's like, obviously, it would be looked at so differently. Yeah. So in that period of time, again, you're working with some really talented filmmakers,

obviously. You're more than a jobbing actor, like things are going, really well. Before Lewin Davis, was there like a moment where it felt like it was about to shift in a big way? Or was Lewin the first kind of real opportunity in that way to raise your profile, you felt? That Lewin was the first one. No, there wasn't, I mean, if there was, I wasn't aware of it or couldn't feel it at all. I mean, I was, I remember auditioning for it and then just like screaming to the heavens, give me this, please, please give me this one, give it to me. yeah i mean i i tried so hard

on that one i did everything that i possibly could and uh yeah luckily luckily that worked out but yeah that that changed everything it's an amazing film it's i mean like they're pound for pound my favorite filmmakers virtually working today in the last 30 years um and that's what if they're better ones so that's pretty good um but i mean one one thing i love but also flew under the radar to a certain extent as well yeah it did it's it and frankly for me too even like i feel like i like many of their films i've appreciated appreciated it more than more times I've seen it. But what I love about them, too, is like some of their best films, like, they can and

are more than willing to, like, cast someone that is kind of a relative unknown. You think of like a serious man, another one of my favorite films. Right, right. Metal Stubbard. Tim Blake Nelson and their films, like, they can get away with that because it's, it's sold as a Cohn Brothers movie and they do it on a budget and it just all works. Exactly. And it's part of the reason why I think some of those stories can work so incredibly well.

I mean, Josh Barolin, you know, had done a lot of stuff, but really that was like so. so massive, you know, and I think that's what's also so beautiful about them. They're real folk artists. Yeah. American folk artists. What's, what's the biggest difference now having worked on many different kind of film sets, but from a Cohn Brothers set versus others, would you say? I think just how chill it is. Yeah. It's just, it was so, and I think even for them, it had a particular chill to it, you know, we were just, there was a gentleness to the way everything was happening. There was a cohesiveness. There was fun, you know, there was, uh, it was about, you know, it, in between takes, you know, we were just talking about all sorts

of different things. It was like a crash course in aesthetics, you know, like Joel would just talk to me about like, you know, sculptors to go check out and this thing, and not in a highbrow way, just like as a bud, you know, as a, as a, as a friend just saying, like, I think you might find this interesting, you know. Uh, so that for me was just, uh, really, really incredible on shooting in New York and shooting in those those incredibly kind of curated environments of the production design that I don't know, there was, and there was just no bullshit, you know, like they wouldn't, and I remember it was difficult at first, but there's never, there wasn't like lots of

compliments, you know, right, there wasn't lots of like, how was that? That was good, let's try another. There wasn't a BS that usually goes on a set of like, like, I gotta pump each other up. Yeah, there was none of that. And you'd think for me, it's like my first, it was really, it was my first lead role. Yeah. And, uh, you know, You know, that it'd be like, so more, less, how, you know, and I just could already tell from the get, I was like, that's going to be a waste of time. Right. So it felt like we were, everybody was just kind of like throwing in their stuff and we were all trying to build this thing together and, and, and that was it. And it wasn't really time to, like, worry about our feelings and, you know, confidence building and all those things.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's funny how quickly then you regress when you're not in that environment, you know. Was it? Was it good? Yeah. It's okay. So in post, Lewin Davis, again, a bunch of great opportunities come around. You work with Alex Garland a few times.

Another guy is that feeling is very similar as well. Yeah. Yeah. Again, yeah, I've interviewed him a few times. Also, I would say no BS with him. He's just all business in the best way. The Star Wars opportunity comes up. At what point in that process did it shift from the Janet Lee Psycho thing where like we think we've got our hero,

and then we're going to kill him off halfway through? into, we're going to keep you around. Like, was there a script that you read where, like, you bought it where Po died? I read Poe's scenes on JJ's iPhone in a cafe in Paris at, like, midnight. It's just like, pure mission impossible. Yeah. That's the absolute truth, too. I went for the meeting.

They kind of told me the story and then told me that he dies spectacularly. And not even halfway through. It's like the very, that kind of sets up the whole movie. And then I was like, oh, okay. And they could see that I was a little bit disappointed by that. But then he comes back. Then you find out. Yeah, well, but he didn't come back.

And so, and then, you know, JJ was like, well, you want to meet up a little later? And that's when we met up in this cafe. And I remember just like sitting across from him, just reading on his iPhone. It was so surreal. And then I was like, okay, well, I'm going to think about it. And he's like, when people are going to write novels about this character, trust me, it's going to people are going to, you know, which is truly have. comic books and stuff

but this was even back then before he was going to kind of there will be a streaming service one day and a spinoff series forecast at all it's true he forecasted it all and then I remember I went back home and I was like what am I talking

of course I'm going to do this it doesn't matter and so I called him to be like hey I want to do this and he said okay also he's going to live through the whole thing we've changed it it's going to be awesome I was like oh my god that's incredible he's like stay

tuned and then it went and then I got hey do you have any pictures of you looking young and heroic? I was like, yeah, I think I could find something. And then I said, he's like, yeah, that's what I'm talking about. Perfect. And it's like, all right, cool, cool, cool.

And it's like, ah, so you're going to have to come out an audition. I remember, I was like, oh, damn. He's like, well, because now I live. Now they're like, okay, so now there's someone that we're going to have to deal with for a few movies. So now we have to make sure that it's not, you know. And then I remember being like, huh. And then my buddy, Jay, he was like, hey, if you want the job, sometimes you got to fill out the application. You got your own Wabowski and your like life.

I was like, you're right, Jay. And so I flew out there and I met, met John is the first person I met. And like, he came back in the dressing room and he and I just like went over the scene together, like back to back. We're doing it. And immediately just kind of fell in love with each other. And then went out there, did the audition, stood next to John, stood next to Daisy. And then JJ literally came over and was like, I don't know why we did this. I mean, of course you've got this part.

You got the part. You know, and then, like, within a couple hours, I found out that I had the part. Classic. So, yeah, it was, but it's funny. It just shows you how it, you know. What did you make, I've talked to a bunch of people, including your buddy Donald has been in here a few times about,

I mean, I loved Last Jedi. I truly did. I'm such a big defender of that one, and I know for whatever reason there's been a lot of debate about the humor and other things, but with respect to your character, there's like the, like, the think pieces of like, Poe represents toxic masculinity and mansplaining in Last Jedi.

Did that surprise you? And what's your take on that kind of interpretation? No, at this point, it doesn't surprise me. Just knowing the kind of, you know, culture that we live in and the platform for everyone showing their buttholes. I mean, their opinions. You just submit something else, I think. Sorry.

But, you know, it is a, yeah, it's that kind of thing where it's what you want, I think. You want the conversation to go on and on and on and on. And in a way, If everybody agrees on everything, then there's not going to be much of a conversation, I don't think. And so I think that, for me, that you can extrapolate very important things about that are happening now in our culture that should be talked about from maybe you're disgust at something in a movie or you're wanting to defend the film. I mean, I think that's the idea. Yeah. So I had no problem with that.

You get the script for episode nine, which you've now wrapped. Do you go straight to the poe parts, the poe lines? Are you thumbing through it? Like, what's my part in this? Or do you read through the whole thing? No, I read through that. The first time through, I read through the whole thing because also you need to know the context

of like how, like, when's being shown? Like, what's the buildup? What is he not? You know, that kind of thing. And then I count all the lines. The record, 82. Respectable. No, so, yeah, I was, I was very psyched when I read it.

Yeah, I mean, as a fan, you've talked about this before. I mean, you're obviously, you grew up a Star Wars fan. This is a meaningful franchise for you. This is one of the things, like the end of Game of Thrones and the end of all these things, Sopranos, where it's like, can it possibly live up to our expectation of the end of this nine-part saga?

Yeah. It did for you, the experience of reading it? The experience of reading, it definitely did. And the experience of doing it. You know, it's amazing how adaptable we are because, like, any, like, the most crazy scenario in situations can feel routine after a while.

So even like, you know, here we go. I got to squeeze myself into this freaking falcon, I mean, falcon chair. It's like,

why do they clearly do not make it for ethnic hips. Not ergonomic in anywhere. Harrison Ford did not have a butt because this is not working for me. So it's like, yeah, everything,

you know, you just start to kind of, yeah, everything starts to feel like old hat. And the fact that towards the end of shooting, I mean, I, I, and when we were saying goodbye, it was very emotional for me. You know, it was such a huge chapter of my life, even just six years or wherever there was. Just was, it was a lot and the intensity of it. And the, I mean, it's like the biggest films ever.

And so, you know, like being, being in the mix of that, in the midst of all that was, was a lot. And so it was. And to have JJ come back and the energy of, of, of, of, you know, of the set and the energy of the whole thing was so distinct from the other ones in a in a great great way i know i'm not going to try and dig for anything like real but i do know like they they showed some like footage to like i think shareholders or something my sense is that we actually get to see you and daisy interact i mean we obviously got a snippet of it in the last one um does that keep it fresh and interesting you're getting to interact finally with yeah i think the idea well you know we were

we were apart in the well obviously the first one i didn't we never really really really meet, I guess, until the very end. And then in the second one, we were all in our own adventures. Right. And in this one, it's great because we get to have some stuff together. Yeah, amazing. Another thing that you can't really talk about because you haven't even shot yet. But let's return to Dune for a second, just because I'm massively interested in this,

both on the Dune level and the Deney Villeneuve level, who's obviously, like, as talented as we've got right now. I don't know. What can you say about this one? Like, I mean, I, in terms of working at this cast, I love Chalomei, Rebecca Ferguson, Batista, and Brolin. Yeah, so that's pretty good. So what's going to separate it, you think, from the lynch interpretation? What would you, I mean, when I talked to Timothy, he said it's surprisingly grounded.

Yeah. It's a, there's, it's not, it's a dangerous word, it's simple, but it's not that it's simple. It's just been, it's been, it's focused. You know, there's a real focus to the thing. Right. Because it can spiral into, I mean, there's a lot there. As much as I want to see Jodorowski's movie.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. One day. But, yeah, because it's just, it's inspired so many things, you know. I mean, you read the book and you're like, wow, I've seen a lot of this stuff, and you realize it's because everything pilfered from this incredible, incredible novel, series of novels. So, so, yeah, I mean, obviously I don't want to get into specifics about what happens because I think it's going to be very exciting.

for people to see and not really know the approach. Wow, that's a big, small. The saga of Oscar's coffee has come to an end. We got you some caffeine. That's not a flat white. He's about to throw it in my face, guys. I really have the urge to dunk the mic into the coffee. Please don't. Please don't.

Home stretch. Anyway, I'm watching a man unravel before my eyes. Yes, Dune, it's really fun and I'm really excited. Always have a flat white, ready for Oscar Isaac in the future. It's new, this whole flat white thing. It's like the English. Is it new for you or just a new drink? No, no, no, in the United States.

Right. Like even the fact that they're like, what size flat white you have? You're like, idiots. What size? You spent a lot of time in England, clearly. A lot of time. A lot of time. The Brooklyn Inn is gone way out of.

Yes, I don't know. Actually, I don't want to say really much of anything. I just want to say that it's like, it's got Denny's aesthetics, his sensibility. It's the visuals, just from like the look books that I've seen are astounding, so beautiful. And the story, I think, is one that takes so much of the novel and focuses it into something that's just incredibly impacted. Right. I mean, not to put words in your mouth, but from my conversation with Denise and others is it sounds like it's not the whole book. It's like, I think, at least half the book or something like that.

Yeah, I mean, I think the idea is that it'll hopefully spawn more entertainment. More content in 2020 and beyond. Exactly. I couldn't be more excited. Permanently scarred by the X-Men Apocalypse experience? Will you ever do another comic book movie again? No, no. It makes it seem.

I was talking about that specific element of it. But there were no. good aspects, but it was the makeup stuff. Yeah, yeah, no, the makeup was incredibly challenging and, and way, way more than I had anticipated it was going to be. Did they lie to you, or did you just not listen? No, I think I saw, I saw the drawings of the thing, and it looked great, and I met the guys, and the guys are incredible that did the, the makeup, Ryan and Alexi, I was with them every

day, and, and that was a, you know, a really interesting collaboration with these guys, because it was so much of like it was just us all the time and they were like my pit crew and but and then like working with those guys and me loving the character of apocalypse and for better or worse trying to imbue it with what I thought was fascinating when I would read the comic books about apocalypse

because growing up evangelical and my sister and I were just talking today about like we had there was like charts in our house of like end of times like this is when the beast will come. This is when this will happen. Yeah, you know. And so she went into climate change and she's like, I went to science because it was like rooted in reality. And she's like, and now it's the end of the world that I'm dealing with. And so, so like the end of times was like, it's like definitely imprinted on us. So for me, I was very interested in, and what

apocalypse represents, you know, making it more than just like at the time, it was a cool, scary name, but actually connecting it to, you know, all right, it's the revelation, an Apocalypse doesn't mean destruction. It actually means like the pulling back the curtain to reveal things. And so the revealing of stuff and then him getting his horsemen and the, you know, the plagues. And that whole thing, you know, I was really interested in those elements and seeing if there was a way to kind of imbue, imbue the character and the tone with a bit of the feeling that I get when I think about revelations, you know? So, so that's, those parts were exciting. Yeah, but the practical effects aspect was just.

way more than I could have anticipated. And, you know, I think we probably could have gotten a lot of mileage if we went for the good old ones and zeros. How much do you resent that your old buddy Chastain is doing an X-Men movie and apparently just threw it on a wig? I know. I was like, with the crap, man. She learned. She learned for, I paved the way. I died for her, for our sins. Speaking comic movies, people have mentioned fancasted you as Batman. What do you think? That was cool to see. Yeah. It's a not a bad character to be associated with. Matt Reeve is a pretty amazingly talented director.

Haven't gotten the call. I have not as much as the fans have tried. Okay. No dice. That being said, you are trying to manifest secret into the universe, apparently video game movies. Metal Gear Solid. Is that something, is that one of those things where you say something like on an interview and now, like, you've heard from people? Yeah, I don't even know what Metal Gear Solid is.

I was just talking shit. That's not true. I have no idea what these people are talking about. lying. Did you say the actual character name? Jay told me. Jay mentioned it right before and I just said it. You're too good an actor. I don't know if I don't believe you or not. I'm a grown-ass man.

Okay, I definitely don't believe you. I really like Metal Gear's a lot. I've played the last one so much, so much. Was it a Phantom thread, right? You're beyond me now. I'm not saying something. Anyway, no, I do love a game and, yeah,

You know, I mean, look, it's an insane story. The story is crazy. I don't honestly know much of anything. It actually gives me a similar feeling of reading the Book of Revelations. It is. It's like so, it's so wild and like, you know, what Hideo-Kajima does, the myth around the whole thing is just, it's, you know, I mean, it's Lynchian.

It is. Like, I could see it as like a David Lynchian-type weird action, bizarreo thing. Obviously, like how you condense all of that wild imagery with this kind of special ops thing and into a screenplay of two hours, I don't know, I don't know that. That would be a Herculean feat. But, you know, I think the right guy is at the helm.

I've heard him talk about video games. Jordan seems really like the right guy to try to do that. I really liked Kong. I like what he did with that. And, yeah, so, I mean, yeah, I'm definitely, I'll be curious. to see if it can, it can, it can make the, it can withstand the, uh, the transfer. Right, right, right. So, um, or inspire, at least inspire something that gives you the feeling

of what it feels like to play the game. Gotcha. The isolation of it to a certain extent and the, and just the weird creepiness of it. You, um, so you've had a little time off, which is a nice luxury. Um, you're going to start to, I hear you're going to be at Celebration, Star Wars celebration, maybe? Maybe. Maybe. Okay. Potentially. I don't know. I don't know. In theory. In theory, I'll see you there. Um, and, uh, you got Dune coming up. I mean, are you going to start, are you interested in producing more? I knew that for Operation Finale. I am. I am actually. Yeah, yeah. I'm on the brink of, of a start in my company and, uh, definitely got a lot of things, you know, a lot of ideas that are percolating and through the years, we've made some good friendships with people and, and, uh, it's just nice to be able to talk with other people about making stuff. It's not always about waiting and hoping that, you know, that perfect thing landed. in your lap.

I'm going to stick it out here in New York, I hope. Yeah, yeah, yeah, no, we're here. We just moved down to Borm Hill. Lovely. So did you ever, you never moved to L.A. You never had to... No, no, I was there, like two months, I think it was. When I first finished school, we were out there for, for pirate season.

Pirate or pilot? Pirate season. I stole that from Betty Gilpin, by the way. Is that true? Yeah, she just goes to pirate season and made me laugh so much. She talked a bit about here, too. Yeah. Amazing.

And we haven't even talked much about, and I'll let you go in a second, but like the music side of things, which is obviously a huge part of your life, too. I know you were just singing some Lewin Davis songs the other night. I love that that's still part of your repertoire. Yeah, it was an American songbook. They invited me to come over to Lincoln Center. It was a time Warner building, actually, and an incredible space. And I did an hour and a half set of it was mostly originals, and then I did a few of the Lew and Davis songs and a couple other ones. I love it. Yeah, it was just amazing. Is there a conscious effort to keep those things separate? at this point? Or are you open to kind of exploring in film again, like a movie musical or that kind of thing? Or does it feel right to kind of keep them separate in a way as pursuits?

No, I'm not intentionally keeping it separate. I mean, obviously, making my own music and performing it. That's just a different thing than to like doing it in a movie. You know, that's, it has to be about like the story and that whole thing. Actually just like writing, you know, playing my songs and working on that and getting a band together and performing them for people is a very different thing anyway. But, um, yeah. Open. Definitely open to, uh, to seeing it. I mean, people seem to be into that. Yeah. Yeah. We're really opening up the career today. Yeah. More, more musical opportunities. We've become Batman. Your solid, you're solid snake. There's so much going on. Thanks to me. You're welcome, Oscar. Thank you, man. I can't wait for the solid snake musical. If only I could get you a fucking flat light. God damn it. Um, Oscar, you're always welcome here. Now that I know that you're spending time here next step. This is part. of the evolution of the Josh Horwood's experience. We're going to have to do something comedic soon.

Your buddies have all done it. Donald's done it. Chastain's done it. What do you mean to the comedy? My after hour series in Comedy Central. You're so ignorant. I make brilliant comedy, Oscar, and you are going to be a part of it. Great. Oh, fuck. Suddenly he turned into a really bad actor.

Wait, he's leaving. It's good to see you too, but really good to see you. And so ends another edition of happy, sad, confused. to review, rate, and subscribe to this show on iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm a big podcast person. I'm Daisy Ridley, and I definitely wasn't pressured to do this by Josh. I'm Amy Nicholson, the film critic for the LA Times.

And I'm Paul Shear, an actor, writer and director. You might know me from The League Veep. or my non-eligible for Academy Award role in Twisters. We love movies, and we come at them from different perspectives. Yeah, like Amy thinks that, you know, Joe Pesci was miscast in Goodfellas, and I don't. He's too old. Let's not forget that Paul thinks that Dude, too, is overrated. It is.

Anyway, despite this, we come together to host Unspool, a podcast where we talk about good movies, critical hits. Fan favorites, must-season, and case you miss them. We're talking Parasite the Home Alone. from Greece to the Dark Night. We've done deep dives on popcorn flicks. We've talked about why Independence Day deserves a second look. And we've talked about horror movies, some that you've never even heard of like Ganges and Hess.

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