Happy Sad Confused - Pamela Anderson & Gia Coppola

Episode Date: January 6, 2025

Pamela Anderson is having a career revival thanks to much lauded performance in THE LAST SHOWGIRL. Here she joins the film's director, Gia Coppola, to chat about this major moment in her career and how she's met the moment. Recorded at the 92nd Street Y. SUPPORT OUR SPONSORS! Quince -- Go to Quince.com/happysadco for 365 day returns and free shipping! UPCOMING LIVE EVENTS 1/20 -- Adam Scott at 92Y in NY -- Tickets here Check out the ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Happy Sad Confused patreon here⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠! We've got discount codes to live events, merch, early access, exclusive episodes, video versions of the podcast, and more! To watch episodes of Happy Sad Confused, subscribe to ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Josh's youtube channel here⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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You have to believe in yourself before others do. You have to respect yourself so others can. And I've learned that. But I don't know, I think I kind of just went through a weird time. But like I said, I look at all my life experience now and everything that's happened and to be able to do something like this and be able to use that all that life experience. And I'm like, okay, that was worth it. It was worth it.

Prepare your ears, humans. Happy, sad, confused begins now. How's it going, everybody? welcome I'm Josh Horowitz and today on Happy Second Fused we're live at the 92nd Street Y with Pamela Anderson

and Gia Coppola everybody thank you so much for being here what a special night you guys here in New York City are very privileged to be one of the first audiences to see this fantastic movie the last showgirl as you can now tell your friends and family

is an extraordinary piece of work isn't it? What a beautiful film I was privileged enough to see this when it debuted at the Toronto Film Festival and I knew I needed to talk to these women about this amazing film. As you know from seeing the movie, it is a character study about a woman at a crossroads in her life and it really features a career redefining role for the one and only icon that is Pamela Anderson.

Unbelievable. Unbelievable. It is the third feature from an extraordinary filmmaker, Gia Coppola. so I'm not going to waste any more time with my talk because you want to hear from them. Please give a warm New York City welcome to Pamel Anderson and Gia Coppola, everybody. Come on out, guys.

Come on, you can go. The longer you clap, the less time we have to talk, guys. Come on. There's a lot to talk about. No, congratulations. I mean, I guess my first question is, like, when you're making this, do you ever even entertain the idea of how a film like this is being received? Because this is the dream, I would think, for both of you, what it's been like so far.

No, you just, I mean, making. making it was so much fun. I feel like we weren't even sort of thinking about the, this extent of it. But it's, it's been wonderful. What about for you? Did you allow yourself to dream a little bit about how it would be received, or was that too far ahead to think? I was just trying to get it done. I mean, I, but I mean, this is a bonus, and this is exciting, because it's nice that people feel what you're feeling in the film, and so it's exciting. So first I just want to you know we're obviously in New York City I watched by the way you guys if you want a really good double feature Watch the documentary about Pamela Anderson after this because it is extraordinary And that film culminates in a really special moment in your career being here in New York City on Broadway

So was it more nerve-wracking to be on Broadway or to expose yourself in this kind of a film and this kind of challenging role? I think playing rock scene in Chicago on Broadway was the warm-up. Yeah. It taught me a lot just about the culture, backstage, you know, performers and these people that have been doing these roles for 20 years, you know, talking about what they're going to make for dinner and what their kids are doing backstage and then, you know, they're cute and then they're on stage. So that was interesting to kind of have that experience before doing this film.

So talk to me a little bit about, before we get into the production and the birth of this film. As I said, this premiere just a few months ago at the Toronto Film Festival. As I understand it, you hadn't seen the film prior to that night. So what were you thinking stepping into that premiere? I mean, you're terrified. But none of us had seen the film. Gia was insistent that we're all going to see it together and we're going to see it on the big screen with an audience. And so all of us were in tears. She traumatized us. But it was such a happy surprise. I'd seen just a tiny little bit when I did, you know, some ADR for one little line. And I was, I remember looking at it. I don't want to look at it. And I looked at it.

I went, oh, okay. We transformed. We did it. You know, I just felt like, even just from a clip of it, I could, I, I felt that it was a complete character. Gia, that night for you, did you know, I mean, you knew the film worked for you, obviously, but you never know how an audience is going to receive it. Was that a relief, the validation of that crowd? And what were you feeling that night? I really felt good about this movie. I felt like I was I was done with it and I'd tried every

iteration and I was ready to share it. But it was really the most thrilling to get to share it with the cast and sit next to Pamela as she was watching it and so I could kind of keep it insulated in just that little bubble to just share

it with them. Has your family seen the film? Have your boys seen the film? What have they? said about it. Dylan saw it last night for the first time and Brandon's going to see it tomorrow. He's, I kind of kept him away from

the set even though Brandon's the one who ended up bringing me the script because my first agent turned it down. I didn't, it was the whole long story. It's crazy. I always feel like you know, you've got to fight for everything. There's always some hurdle that was the hurdle so it's even more it's even more precious because it almost slipped through my fingers.

He's seeing it tomorrow. He said he'd rather believe the hype. I was like, oh gosh. my kids are yeah they're very supportive yeah it was good so anyway my family has my mom's dying to see the teaser you know she's dying to see anything my mom is glittery from head to toe and she just thinks this is going to be amazing so she's very excited um this obviously okay there are a lot of things to talk about with respect to this film but one of them is is las Vegas which we've seen depicted in many a film as I understand that Gia this has been a locale

a fascination for you for many years What's been the lore of Vegas for you as a filmmaker? As a storyteller. Gosh, I don't really know why I'm so fascinated by it. My family thinks I'm really weird because I really enjoy it there. I'm so curious of this sort of, you know, what is it like to live in this land of kind of magic and illusion and who are the people that kind of make this happen

and what's their day-to-day life like? and I've always loved going to take pictures there. I would drive cross-country during college. I went to college in upstate New York, and I was a photo major, and I would just stop and take pictures. And I love the art critic, Dave Hickey, who was a professor there,

and the way he would sort of articulate the visuals of Las Vegas, and Louis Thoreau did an interesting documentary on just, like, gambling, and how this city can, like, kind of overtake a person. And it just, there's no other place like it. Yeah, it is the contrast of the amazing artifice, the glossy artifice between the backstage,

literally the backstage, of who actually keeps Vegas going. It occurred to me, like, there couldn't be more of a different film, but your grandfather made a Vegas film. One from the heart is a movie. I remember watching growing up. It came out way before you were even born. But did that factor in at all, or is that just a unique thing that he happened to have a,

I love that movie His version of Vegas is so different than this But yeah, it's one of my favorites So I think I was just always excited that he Made a movie in Vegas though he never made it in Vegas That's all in a studio He by the way, as you all know He was in Toronto with his own film and I interviewed him recently

And he made a point of being You know, he's a proud grandpa when it comes to your work So that's touching to see Okay, let's talk about the script Kate Gerson writes the screenplay. What did you make of it? Did you know immediately this was the way to tell this kind of story you've been looking to tell?

Yeah, I mean, I think for years I'd sort of been wanting to tell a story in Vegas, but I didn't really have... That setting always was appealing to me, but there was no story that kind of felt right. And my cousin, Robert Schwartzman, and I, we've been making films together just like with a camcorder

and it only felt right that we would sort of eventually make a movie together but we really wanted to make something you know Cassavetti's like and John Baker-esque where it was intimate and didn't require the long waiting game of having to make a movie

and I remember my other cousin Robert's brother Matt Shire told me that his wife is also a big lover of Las Vegas and that she in fact wrote a play about this time when she was sort of observing the final years of the Las Vegas show girls. And when I read it, I mean, I liked the idea of a play.

I liked that it was going to be contained not a lot of locations, not a lot of cast. So then that in my mind was like, okay, we can do this fast. But I was really struck with the characters. it really felt authentic to real people and it was a mother-daughter story and I was raised by a single mom so I always wanted to tell a mother's daughter story

and then I became a mother myself so then I was able to understand the story from a different perspective which was even more moving to me to kind of know the challenges of being a creative working mother and how, you know, there's so many things up against you in trying to do that.

And I related to the family you create in the workforce. So there was just so many layers to it that were really appealing to me. Then, of course, you need to cast it. You need to find your Shelley. What was that process, and how did we get to Pamela Anderson here? Yeah, I mean, this movie is interesting

in that there weren't other movies that inspired me that I was drawing from. It was always photography or literature or journalism. And so similar with the Shelley character, I couldn't visualize a present-day actress in that role. I would think of Marilyn Monroe would be interesting. And then I came across Pamela's documentary, and I was just really struck with,

yes, there's a lot of parallels, but also I could see this woman that was so extremely, intelligent and kind of the modern day Marilyn and you know someone known for her beauty but has so much depth and soul to her and just eager to express herself dramatically that I was just knew that she was my Shelley and no one else could play that role. So from the outside looking at yes. I mean evidence on the screen. So you know I alluded to this time period. So you have the documentary, you have Chicago, you have your memoir. It seems like you were at a crossroads. You were at kind of like a point where you were ready to try something

new if the industry would allow you the opportunity, which you need. You can't always make your own opportunities. Like where was your headspace at before this came around of what you were looking for, what you wanted to do with your life and career? I didn't know. I was just, I went back home. I went back to the place. I grew up. And I got into my garden, peeled it all back. I was just trying to remember who I was. I want to be defined by what I do and not what has been done to me. So I needed to remember who I was.

And as soon as I did that, things just started percolating. You know, Barry Weisler called me. And the show, I don't know, Pam and Tommy, I've never seen it. I never had anything to do with it. Came out and he called me and said, you know, I know you're capable. I don't want people to think of you that way. I want you to come to Roxy in Chicago. And we'd met a long time ago through Rob Marshall

and they wanted me to do it. But my kids were still in school and I just basically was too scared. So I said, well, when? And he goes, now. I was like, no, not like in a year, maybe, in a year? And he goes, no, now, tomorrow I want you on a plane.

And I went to L.A. for one month and then I went to two weeks in New York and then I did Broadway for eight weeks. And I don't know if I could sing or dance or act on stage, but I could do all of it at the same time. It was amazing. Oh, thank you. So was there a sense of, like, what do I have to lose?

Like, I mean, this is an amazing opportunity. My whole life has been like that. What do I have to lose? You know, I'm pretty fearless with that. But I always felt like I just, I knew I was capable of more, and I kind of was beating myself up when I went home. Like, you know, I really screwed up or I didn't work hard enough or, you know, just events that had happened in my life.

And I thought, you know, I'm not like a woe-as-me person, but I was just like, fuck, you know? Sorry. I was like, so I kind of was like, you know, I don't know. And then to be able to put my heart and soul into Roxy and make her a vulnerable character too, which was a different choice. And then when this came along, I thought, this is what that feeling is when you, an actor or artist sees a project

that they have to do, it's life or death. It was so important. And I remember calling Gia and we're on the Zoom. And I was telling myself to her. She's like, no, I want you to do it. You know, that's why I sent you the script. I'm like, no, but I can do this. You know I can do it.

And she goes, no, I know you can do it. Relax. Yeah, I mean, it is a major switch in the brain to, because for decades you've been kind of boxed into these, you know, acting wise, you have not been given these opportunities. Well, I mean, like I said, being a part of pop culture is a blessing, and it's a little bit of a curse if you want to convince people that you can do other things. And I think I just started really walking my talk. You know, I didn't want to be that cartoon character I'd been walking around like,

And I thought, how do people look at me any differently? I mean, this is what I'm presenting to the world. So it took, it was years of, you know, figuring that out, I guess, you know, and then having somebody see me on the documentary, and my son, Brandon, also produced that documentary. And, you know, you don't know why you're doing things sometimes, and then just kind of, it just happened. But I said, when I've read the script, I thought, okay, you know, put your head down, you're going to work really hard. This is going to be, this might be the only movie you're ever going to. to do and do you want to be remembered? How do you want your legacy to be? And I said, so I have to

experiment and, you know, I wanted to work on my voice. I wanted to work on everything. So I just did the best I could and I'm glad it's been well received, but we worked really hard on it. lithium latte, Tim's new protein lattes, protein without all the work, at participating restaurants in Canada. Summer's here, and you can now get almost anything you need for your sunny days, delivered with Uber Eats.

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What excited you about the life that she'd lived, the regrets she had, the place that she was in, what excited you about her? So many things. I mean, there are some parallels in her life about the love of nostalgia. or beauty and performance and almost that, you know, distance that you have from people on a stage and being beautiful. You know, that's, I think, was part of her protection. But also, I imagine that she had a similar life to me, maybe. And having, you know, the mother-daughter story, having a child in this industry is, I would say you're going to have to beg for forgiveness

to your adult children, you know, because I've been there. And you're just doing the best you can. So there's so much to her. I always say there's, every woman is a movie. You know, I feel like there's what's holding up those rhinestones. You know, she still needs to know what is she going to make for dinner. What is she, what's happening in her family and her relationships? And she's on stage. And I don't know, I just, I thought it was such an interesting, well-written script and characters that it just felt like it was, that I could do it and that was meant to be. You both must have, I would imagine everybody in the audience after seeing the movie has such empathy for this character, for Shelley, and the choices she made, which, you know, on the outside looking in, without any context, you might judge someone a certain way, but, you know, to walk in their shoes at that particular point in her life, yeah, talk to me a little bit about her choices she made as a young mother and how you feel, how you empathize with the choices that she made. Well, there's no perfect way to be a parent.

And women in the workforce, this is something I did differently. I took the time for my kids. I didn't have a nanny. Everybody's my boys. I dragged them everywhere, poor kids. But I can believe that she didn't abandon her child. She did what was best for her child. And she felt, and that scene with Billy was really wonderful

because she brought a lot to it too with her experience with her grandmother Debbie Reynolds and her mother. Fischer and so there was just a the whole script and everybody in it the actors were just fully loaded and fully full of this life experience bringing these characters to life was really wonderful to work with Jamie Lee Curtis who scared me to death when I first met her and she grabbed me by the shoulders and she's like I did this for you I was like no oh god it was wonderful but frightening yeah okay So let's talk about the production.

18 days. You shot this in 18 days. Let that sink in for a second, everybody. Did you, I mean, every filmmaker wants more time, more of everything. Was that the bare minimum of like, yeah, I can squeeze this out in that amount of time? I mean, I think that was the maximum I was going to be given. I mean, we had 19. days and then we cut it down to 18 so that I could have a little more for post. I mean,

making a movie in a small way just allowed for me to have my creative autonomy, which was what was really important to me. I was allowed to do things like not have a video village and only have one clamshell monitor and that was mine and get to be close to the actors, so no one could else like get in my head. And, you know, I was so grateful that all the team was, you know, either a really close friend or a family member. And so I felt really trusted and that I felt really trusted by the actors so I could trust myself and to really make the movie that I wanted to make. Did you correct me if I'm wrong? You shot this on film as well.

Yeah, we shot it on film, 16mm. Again. I mean, not making it easy on yourself, but, I mean, there's a method to the madness always. I mean, Pamela, for you being on this set, did this feel like apples and oranges compared to any other set you'd been on, given the kind of environment that Gia created? Well, I feel like this is the first time

you know, I've ever really done anything at this level or commitment and focus for myself. So, yes, this was a whole new world, new chapter. But coming from the Broadway stage and going right into this film was really exciting. so I felt like I already had my feet wet. I wasn't coming from Baywatch, you know, doing this.

I kind of had a little bit of, I don't know. But, you know, like I said, take it with you. I've talked to, I just did a film with Karim Anu's in Barcelona. And I said, I just wish I could get rid of my past. I just want to not think about it anymore. I don't want anyone bringing it up. And he goes, no, take it with you, baby. And I was like, that's so much better.

Thank God. Yeah, I'm taking it with me, baby. So, I mean, I took it with me. But it is a different time for me. Yeah, I mean, I guess the question is, because obviously you've acted a bunch over the years, but are the lessons, do you have to unlearn kind of like the technique or whatever you had to do for those kinds of jobs,

given this is such a different methodology? You know, my first plane ride was coming to Los Angeles. I wasn't planning on being an actress, and then someone wanted to pay me be on the beach all day. I was going to be there anyway. You know, I was like, okay, can I bring my dog? You know, like, I was like, great, this is so cool. But then I was like, oh, you know, this is kind of interesting, this acting thing.

And I remember meeting with an acting teacher, Ivana Chubach, and I thought, I just want to learn more about what this is. And I was in Samuel French, sitting on the floor, you know, reading Tennessee Williams and Eugene O'Neill play, Sam Shepard. And I was just fascinated with Elizabeth Taylor and suddenly last, like, you know, and Catherine Hepburn. And I just was really starting to get into that. And then I got married.

So that kind of sidetracked me. And I, you know, then I called her. her again when I did Broadway and we worked really hard on that and I worked really hard with her on this film too and it's just the focus and the work you have to do the work if it's a comedy or if it's a drama you have to do the work and so I'm learning every day I'm still learning and growing and this has been a real process of self-discovery as well were there any changes made between signing on and and shooting in terms of respect to your character that you you wanted during discussions or was basically

Kate's script locked in and you shot the script. Yeah, I mean, there were moments when the space wasn't fitting to the script. There was a lot of lines and talking in the hallways, and so us as a, all of a collaborative kind of effort had to be like, okay, what's the root of the scene?

What are the lines that are kind of fostering this idea and then kind of work together to figure that out. And there was a really funny moment where we were kind of figuring out in time as we were shooting it with all the feathers, everyone bumping around. But that's the fun part. By the way, these costumes,

these are authentic costumes. These are like museum pieces. Yeah. Bob Mackie, icon. They are from the Jubilee show. They have not left the building in 30 years. They are actual, like, museum pieces. Are these probably not conducive, though,

to like, it's not an easy costume to be in for 12 hours a day, I would imagine. No, you don't want to wear these every day. Right. But, I mean, you do want to wear them. It was so exciting. But they were, what, 50, 60, 70 pounds. And there's a choreography to taking them on and off. So we had dressers from the Jubilee teach us how to do the choreography of taking the, you know,

they had dress off and all the different, you know, arm bands and gloves and then the quick changes. And that, so that had a lot of choreography as well as doing the, lines and being in small spaces and carrying these and also wearing the headpieces that normally the women would only have them on for a couple minutes and we had them on all day so we're kind of leaning against the wall

everyone got a good massage you know the next day. Hyropractor bills were off the chart yeah so there was magic in the costumes there was even name tags still in some of them so it was really special so we referenced some of the cast I want to talk about

because it's a small cast it is like a small, amazing company you have there, and you have to establish this kind of found family in the film. There's a history to these interpersonal relationships, and again, it's a short shoot. So I'm curious, like, how you accomplish that with Karen Shipka and Brenda's song. Like, did that, was there rehearsal time, or was that, again, just sort of like you were all on the same page right from the start? For me, I don't want to hear the actors saying the lines over and over again. I want to have the bonding experience and do things like, cook together and let that sort of sensual activity be some like sense memory thing of like,

oh, that's what you do with your family. And so we would do things like go to Pamela's house and she would teach us how to make vegetable soup. And that was how we got our vegetables anyways. And we were all kind of living together in the, we weren't, but most of the cast and crew were living in the Rio. And I've always craved that to have to be on location and, have that kind of family bonding, but this movie was so much about family bonding, so that really had to kind of transcend. So you referenced Billy Lord, who I'm always such a fan of, and the scenes between you two are really emotional and really heartbreaking. And again, like you mentioned, like she brought her own history. She referenced, for those that don't know, Carrie Fisher,

of course, her mom, Debbie Reynolds, her grandmother. Is that disgust literally in the moment? Like, is that something that she talked to you before signing on, or something she talked about, you were rehearsing or not rehearsing but yeah i i had sent billy the script because i'm a fan of her work and um i kind of just was sort of openly like which character appeals to you and and i was really surprised when she said hannah um and she opened up about um and i wasn't even thinking about this at the time but like her grandma being um having a one woman show in las Vegas and really living a lot of what Shelley kind of had lived and her relationship with her mom and telling me more about her mom's relationship with her mom.

And she saw so much of those scenes like she was playing Carrie and that Pamela was Debbie. So I think it meant so much to me to bring this sort of cathartic experience to her and it made it more interesting to me and not just sort of the angsty daughter. What do you recall about being in the moment in those scenes? Because those are powerful moments between you two. Well, again, just having young boys, you know, and when you're in this world and, you know,

whatever I've done in my career, you don't realize in the moment how much that affects your child and you're trying to protect them from it. And then they grow up and they have a lot of questions and then they grow up even further to be adults and they confront you. So we were both kind of bringing our experience to those scenes, our personal experience.

I know from the documentary, you're a journal keeper. What does your journal look like during the 18 days? What were the entries like? What were you writing about? What were you feeling? Interesting. I write every morning.

I get up at 4, 5 in the morning, and I write for an hour just to kind of start the day. So, I mean, it could have been anything. I mean, I was writing a lot of emotional diaries, actually, for this piece, and working really hard on those kind of things. So, like I said, I just write, like, very intuitively, and extreme consciousness, poetry, and, yeah.

Any entries about Jamie Lee Curtis's spray tan? Is there an entry on that? No, but the funny story is the first time I met Jamie, we did a table read, and she had just gotten a spray tan, and she was getting darker and oranger before my eyes. It was just getting more and more intense, and her, you know, the frosty lipstick, and they were just doing the tests with everything. So that was really wonderful. But she was, yeah, she just goes full force.

She's amazing. She's, like, so fun to work with and to actually work with her and to watch her the way she works was such an honor and will change my life forever. So, and the dance that she does in the film, I mean, again, this insanely short schedule, yet that's not in the script.

That's something you guys, just, let's try it. Let's see what happens. I mean, Jamie's such a force, like, to be in the vicinity of that level of talent. I feel like I learned so much, but she's also so warm and inviting and doesn't, you know, I was really intimidated to work with her, too, and she doesn't make it feel that way. She comes to set early. She stays on set.

She helps move gear. She does whatever has to do to get the film done, and she's a big supporter. of independent cinema. But with that scene, I mean, we have kind of two different stories, but my version of it is we were kind of coming to set in the morning and it's such an interesting environment to work out of the casino at 6 a.m. You go to set and you see the characters that are still there

from the night before. And she was doing her research and talking to some of the waitresses about their job just to kind of for her character, but she learned, I guess, it's a union thing that the casinos can avoid the union, I guess, by making them bevertainers. And so these waiters who are really either dancers or singers have a moment where they take a break from serving and they can show off their talent and dance or sing. And she was watching one of the bevertainers do her dance, and she was just in awe of how amazing it was. And I had asked her, well, why don't you do that? And she was like, you're really

going to make me get on stage and dance? And I was, sure, yeah, well, you? I don't know. And she's, and there's music all the time in the casinos and I guess total eclipse of the heart played. And she was, well, this is a net song. And I was like, great. And then, yeah, she did it. We just threw, I threw her on there and it was one take. And I didn't know how I was, going to use it or if I was going to even be able to get that song, but I had to figure out a way. Say, you have to clear these. That's a pretty big song. I wrote a letter.

Let me fire off this email really quick. That was all my posts, you know. One other cast member I want to mention, I was discussing to you backstage about Dave Battista, who I mean, this guy, what he's doing in his career, I'm so impressed. And again, there's this lived in history between your characters

that you have to establish very quickly. Did you connect with him? Because I see some similarities in like two performers that have probably been very underestimated boxed in throughout their careers. Did you connect on that level? Do you connect with Dave on any...

I didn't know much about Dave Batista before this film and I really only knew him in the wig. So afterwards when I saw him without hair I was like, wait a second. I mean, where's my guy? But he was wonderful and so sweet and such like a gentle job. You know, he's such a sweetheart. It's so soft and like a sweet, and we just, I think that we did those scenes.

The first scene we'd get together was the table scene, right? The table inside, the interiors. So we had a scene together. All of us. But our scene in the restaurant was really fun. I love that scene. I mean, I say like that you both, I heard something, you say something interesting about, you know, I feel like both you and Dave were underestimated for portions of your career. but sort of the more insidious thing is when you underestimate yourself and you've said you've done that to yourself. Are you past that now? Do you feel like you've kind of like

something has clicked in your brain where you're able to kind of... Jack the code. Yeah. No, I think you have to believe in yourself before others do. You have to respect yourself so others can.

And I've learned that, but I don't know, I think I kind of just went through a weird time but like I said, I look at all my life experience now and everything that's happened and to be able to do something like this and be able to use that all that life experience. And I'm like, okay, that was worth it.

It was worth it. The audition scene that kind of opens it, but you return to later on in the film, is pretty powerful, too. You cast the nicest man on the planet, your cousin, Jason Schwartzman. Well, in real life, I'm saying. Does that, I mean, you've been through auditions in your career.

Did that resonate on any level in your own life, what she had to go through? Well, I mean, that audition scene was, for me, the pivotal point, kind of the point where she fights back. I mean, she wears her heart in her sleeve. This movie's about, I think, second chances and just trying to get, do the best you can with the tools that you have. And I felt like that was a moment for me, too, in the film that I was really excited about,

but also really fearful of for some reason. So I think that's why it resonates a lot, because it was a difficult. decision to just turn around and say, wait a second, you didn't like it. You know, it was, so I think, I can't really draw anything from any life experience like that, but I feel like it just, I mean, it just felt that was, I don't know, I mean, I do feel maybe like a little bit in my life, but you have, reinvention is something really important. Like, you know, I think, like, people ask me, what do you think Shelly did after this? I think all her life is always going to be beautiful, and her life, she's going to

to reinvent herself and there's going to be more beauty ahead and art and she lives her life as an artist and and I think it's very hopeful do you share that kind of hopeful I like to envision Shelley and Annette robbing a casino that's my my going more genre in the sequel you're going a little more more Hollywood yeah exactly With Amex Platinum, access to exclusive Amex presale tickets can score you a spot trackside. So being a fan for life turns into the trip of a lifetime. That's the powerful backing of Amex. Pre-sale tickets for future events subject to availability and vary by race.

Turns and conditions apply. Learn more at amex.ca. The twisted tale of Amanda Knox is an eight-episode Hulu original limited series that blends gripping pacing with emotional complexity, offering a dramatized look as it revisits the wrongful conviction of Amanda Knox for the tragic murder of Meredith Kircher and the relentless media storm that followed. The Twisted Tale of Amanda Knox is now streaming only on Disney Plus. It's also like there's a melancholy to the film for a time gone by,

for an art form that is no longer celebrated. You talked about showgirls, you know, contributing, the costumes being actual museum pieces. Have you, have folks that kind of participated in these kind of shows seen the film? Has that been important to get their take on it? It was very important to get their take on it. They haven't seen the film yet,

but they were very involved. We had some of the showgirls from the actual Jubilee show come to Pamela's house and talk to us about their journeys and their stories and show us the walk and what it means to them. And then Dita Vanty's was doing a show, still is doing a show where she does sort of an homage to the Jubilee mixed with burlesque,

which is her specialty. I don't know how you'd phrase that. And all those dancers from her show were in the, background of our movie and they were so supportive and always teaching us how to put the clothes on and off and so they haven't seen it yet the Vegas community was really big part of this and I can't wait to share it with them so what happened on day 19 the day after you shoot you wrap this amazing opportunity did you feel like

you kind of left it all out on the field like good or for bad it's up to Gia now in the edit room I think I did the best I could well I think that the last thing we did was the last scene. So, the last shot. And it was really emotional for everybody. Everybody was on the stage and, you know, there was the, you know, the girls, but then there was the camera and the, Gia and everybody and family, like her family and Monty and her little baby. Just very, it was very emotional because it felt, I don't know, I didn't imagine, I didn't know how it was going to turn out or anything, but I felt really good about the work

that everybody put into it. And it just was like, with that bittersweet moment, like it's over. So were there moments or specific scenes you saw when you finally saw the film that, I mean, I don't know if you even know that Jamie Lee Curtis Dance was in the film. Like, I mean, it sounds like there are these unexpected moments that occur. So what surprised you in seeing the finished product? I think I didn't have any days off in the 18 days. So I kind of got to see everything. But she did such a great job with even organizing the cast. The first four days were with Jamie. The next part were with Dave. The next part were with the girls. And then off all the dancers. So it was kind of like these, the way you organized it with the

actual shooting schedule was... I didn't have a choice. It just was the way it had to go. But that's hard to do. That's how, you know, doing it all in different orders and just really concentrating on those relationships in chunks. So it wasn't, you know, diluted at all. We really got to get to do the scenes together, you know, in chunks like that. So I was just really happy. I was really happy when I said I saw myself for the first time because when I got ready for the film, I wouldn't look in the mirror. I didn't want to look in the mirror and get ready. I looked away from the mirror

and I did most of the film without makeup and then some with the showgirl but I didn't want to get distracted about the way that I looked. So when I saw the character I was like, yeah, yeah, that's crazy. I'm crazy. But it was like, yes, you know, because

it looked like it was a transformation even in the character. So I was really excited to see that. And I've never liked to see myself in anything and I was really scared to even see the film. So it was a nice surprise. You mentioned the choice of makeup or no makeup. This has become, like, the phenomenon of phenomenons.

Pamela Anderson a couple years ago deciding, no makeup for me, I'm good. And women around the world have, like, just gone over the moon about this. I mean, has this surprised you about how this is connected on a profound level across the globe? Yeah, I mean, I was at Paris Fashion Week, and I just didn't want to sit in a makeup chair for three hours. And I thought, there's only, like, this much of me sticking out of these incredible, outfits, you know, Vivian Westwood and everything. I said, no one's even going to notice. So I'm going to go to the Louvre. I'm going to go for a walk.

I just don't want to, who am I competing with? What am I trying to do? I'm not even in the show. I'm just sitting at the fashion show. And then I started realizing, this is really great. Like this, I have so much freedom. And then I just kind of people would start coming up to me. Thank you so much for doing this. And look, I'm not wearing

makeup either with the glasses or, you know, it's like, great, yay. I don't know what else to say. But I mean, I'm so happy because you just have I just didn't know, I feel like we put on these masks, and I know I did, and it's so nice to just, and I think with social media and all this kind of stuff, I mean, I think a lot of young girls think, I don't look like my Instagram pictures, I'm having a bad day, and it's really, you know, you just don't look like your Instagram pictures, you know, and you're okay, just

the way you are, and I found I had to do that just for myself, I wasn't doing it for any other reason, and then, so I think that it resonated because it was just, you know, what I, and I still, you know, I just feel like it has been such a freeing experience not to have to keep up with the Joneses. Do you, you mention young people and social media has changed the game, obviously, but do you connect or when you see kind of like young actresses that are going through it and are being defined by their looks and being judged and all, and going through different variations on what you went through?

Do you see similarities, or does it feel like it's a totally different landscape for young performers nowadays? Well, even the girls, because, you said to them, okay, we're not going to wear makeup when we're not doing this, and they're like, no makeup? Like, what do you mean? Like, no contour, no nothing? And there was a heart for them. And even Brenda says, like, in her whole career from a child actor, aunt, she's never been in front of the camera without makeup. And so I don't know.

It's just a, it sounds maybe a little superficial, but it's, you know, we're just, I don't want to, I'm a little rebellious. So I kind of, I felt, I don't know, just like I did it for me, and I feel like I do see, I have, you know, nieces and I have, you know, my sons have girlfriends, and I think, I hope that they, they're okay with themselves. And then all the rest of it's fun. I mean, I love makeup too and glamour and everything. It's not, I'm not against it. I just wanted to, we got to check in with ourselves, you know, have some makeup free dinner parties sometimes. I don't know. So, Gia, what's it been like, I mean, we talked about kind of the satisfaction of this.

of how it's being received, this film. But, you know, earmuffs Pamela for a second. This performance is being celebrated, and this career has changed forever. That must be at a remarkable, I don't know, that must warm your heart to see how she's being perceived through this film you've created.

Yeah, I mean, that's really the biggest reward. It just, it's been long deserved. Yeah. Yeah. So what, going forward, what are you looking for, like acting-wise? Like, does this change the, change the aspirations in terms of what you're looking for and what your hopes are? I finally got an agent.

And I just finished Naked Gun with Liam Neeson. We did the reboot of that. I'm there. It's funny. He's hysterical. I'm such a sweetheart. And handsome and all that good stuff. And, no, then I did a movie with Karim Anuz.

A fantastic director in Barcelona, where I play the mother of this really dysfunctional family. I don't know, it's an ensemble too. But people are, and I've got some other things in the works, but yeah, no, I'm working, so it's exciting. I just want to, you know, I'm excited about doing it. And also, I don't know if this, like, becomes, like, Pass A for you being, like, part of the zeitgeist for many years, but, like, when Beyonce suddenly pops up in a video, donning three of your iconic, guises. Did she give you the heads up? Did that just come out of nowhere? I had no idea. I had a friend

call me, a friend sent me this picture of the fuzzy pink hat and everything and I thought oh okay another Halloween costume and then no I said though it's a video and I saw it and I was like wow I mean that was in the boat thing so I thought that was cool that's why I thought that was really fun but it's funny and I feel like far removed from it so I don't you know I don't never take offense to it it's always a compliment but funny back in the day

those weren't celebrated outfits you know I was crazy can I show the three photos of Beyonce just to see if it jogs in numbers you have it? Yeah with the first one let's go to the first one please my mom thought it was me

I think this is the Baywatch look if we can go to the Baywatch yeah there's the side by side I know I'm so I mean you can't dream this stuff up I mean it's crazy you never could have imagined that I suppose I never even met Beyonce

let's go to the next one please If we have it. Oh, my gosh. This is your life. Yes, this is your life, Pamela Anderson. It's coming. It's coming. It's coming. We're in the black void. Here. We're going to go to the next one, please.

It's coming. It's coming. You know, it's funny back in the day, people used to always say, I mean, just recently, actually, someone asked me, Barb Wire. First of all, I just had that in my suitcase, you know, and I had these, like, you know, leggings, yoga pants and these boots from a playboy shoot, and I put it together. I just kind of showed up in Ken and in costume. but no one planned that.

And it's like, this is funny anyway. But people always ask me, did you have a stylist? Do you think a stylist would have me out of the house with half those looks? No, I hadn't have a stylist. I remember Jacques Moose was like,

that makes me cry. One more, I think. One more. This is from MTV, I think Video Music Awards is coming up in a second. Give us the second. Drumroll.

It's coming. What happened to the barbed wire costume? Do you still have it? I don't know. Not on the Smithsonian. No. No, that wasn't the barbedoie costume. That was just from my... That was the promo. That was, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Okay, it's coming. Here we go. Last one.

There it is. Tommy did my makeup. All right, we can take that down. So, anyway, speaking of music, you got Miley Cyrus for this. How did that happen? How does that... Every film would die to have. Myelis Cyrus on the soundtrack. Yeah, I mean, I,

Andrew, our composer, Andrew Wyatt, he did all the music in our movie, but he also works closely with Miley on some of her stuff. And I really wanted an original song for the end.

You know, I wanted something to sort of be that juxtaposition of so much of what the movie kind of deals with of this analog versus the digital and having that kind of something that I could kind of create that had that old-timey sound, but also dealt with something modern. And I'm just a huge fan of her.

She wears a lot of Bob Mackie, and she has such a wonderful voice that kind of feels like it has been through so many years, and she's able to have that vocal range that kind of feels theatrical, so it really wasn't going anywhere but I think

and then I finally got a text with her vocals on the song and I really think it was Jamie who kind of took the ball to the finish line where she they saw each other at some Disney promo thing and she helped kind of she's such a like PR

again champion of that woman a raise Jamie Lee Curtis that's how it works have you connected with Miley yet have you met well you know it's funny because you know I've known Miley since she was a little younger but just kind of in passing and one of the

she's always been a supporter of mine her and her mom when I remember playing Roxy in Chicago one of my first audiences I look out and there's Miley Cyrus with her mom at the show so it's nice when I heard her voice on the lyrics too it felt really good about that because I root for her. I've always been rooting for her.

All right, we're almost out of time, but we're going to end with the happy, sake, and fuse profoundly random questions for both of you. Guys, are you dogs or cat people? Cat. Dogs. I'm allergic to cats,

but I still love them and rescue them. How many dogs at home? I have three dogs. Yeah. Love it. Okay. What do you collect, if anything, either of you? Nothing?

I'm not really collecting. I collect your things. You know, family photos. I don't know. My boy's shrine to my kids. There you go. What's the wallpaper on your phone? My dogs.

My son. There you go. All three dogs. Two on one and then one on the other screen. Two screens. It's checking. Have you ever been mistaken for another actor in your career? There's only one Pamela Anderson, but has it ever happened?

Yeah, no. know this one time I was on a flight and this guy came up to me and said do you know what this country's done for you and I was like oh my god what have I done and he goes and he kept on and I was like oh god and then I would look back you know him and he'd be like oh my god and then this you know stewardess had to like handcuff him to the chair because he was trying to attack me yeah and um end up he thought I was a dixie chick remember that whole dixie chick thing yeah I do yeah I have I almost kind of killed on a plane.

But I was like, when you look back and he's like, that's like, that's only like the 400th most weird thing that's happened in your life, to be fair. Yeah, that's minor. I'm scared to fly after that a little bit, but, you know. Yeah, I get it. What's the worst note a director has ever given you? Pretend it's real.

Action. It was Baywatch. More seagulls. Where's the cracker whacker? They just threw crackers in the air and get the seagulls to come down. But rependenters, real action, and we'd be like, whoa. Anyway, and then there's Gia, the best actors director in the world. So you have to go to boot camp, you know?

It's like a learning experience. So it's been, you learn good and bad from good and bad things. And so that's why it was such a pleasure to work with really strong direction and professional people that are all really committed and hardworking on their craft and and you know it was really such a wonderful experience to know all ends of the spectrum yes to be a grateful yeah where you're at now um in the spirit of happy second fuse who's an actor that always makes you happy you see them on screen you're in for a good time this is a this is you're in good hands nicholas cage yeah this is a valid answer it's good

Jenna Rollins. Oh, good. Great. What's a movie that makes you sad? Off the top of my head, Splendering the Grass. Oh, yeah. It makes me sad.

I just had the Criterion Clause This Morning, so I'm really inspired. I got to see a lot of things. I don't know. I love movies that make me sad, so I can't think of one off the top of my head, though. I can't I. And finally, is there a food that makes you confused?

You don't get it. You see it on a menu. Why do people even eat that? I don't understand. Meat? Yeah, I know. There you go. There you go.

We ended with a good PSA for the audience. The most important PSA, though, is to check out this movie. You guys have seen what a wonderful film The Last Showgirl is. It opens, in some theaters December 13th. It goes wider in January. So spread the good word. These small, wonderful movies need the word of mouth. spread the good word of this fantastic performance

in this wonderful direction by Gio. Give it up one more time. Cable Anderson, Gio Cropo, everybody. And so ends another edition of happy, sad, confused. Remember to review, rate, and subscribe to this show on iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm a big podcast person. I'm Daisy Ridley, and I definitely wasn't

to do this by Josh. The Old West is an iconic period of American history and full of legendary figures whose names still resonate today. Like Jesse James, Billy the Kid, and Butch and Sundance, Sitting Bull, Crazy Horse, and Geronimo, Wyatt Earp, Batmasterson, and Bass Reeves, Buffalo Bill Cody, Wild Bill Hickok, the Texas Rangers, and many more. Hear all their stories on the Legends of the Old West podcast. We'll take you to Tombstone. Deadwood, and Dodge City, to the plains, mountains, and deserts for battles between the U.S. Army and Native American warriors, to dark corners for the disaster of the Donner Party, and shining summits for achievements like the Transcontinental Railroad. We'll go back to the earliest

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