Happy Sad Confused - Paul Dano

Episode Date: June 16, 2015

A fine young and remarkable actor by the name of Paul Dano joins Josh to talk about starring in an excellent new film “Love & Mercy” which tells the story of Brian Wilson of The Beach Boys, his most notable films, filmmakers he was obsessed with, and much more. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

During the Volvo Fall Experience event, discover exceptional offers and thoughtful design that leaves plenty of room for autumn adventures. And see for yourself how Volvo's legendary safety brings peace of mind to every crisp morning commute. This September, lease a 2026 X-E-90 plug-in hybrid from $599 bi-weekly at 3.99% during the Volvo Fall Experience event. Conditions apply, visit your local Volvo retailer

or go to explorevolvo.com. Don't miss Swiped, a new movie inspired by the provocative real-life story of the visionary founder of online dating platform Bumble. Played by Lily James, Swiped introduces recent college grad Whitney Wolfe as she uses grit and ingenuity to break into the male-dominated tech industry to become the youngest female self-made billionaire. An official selection of the Toronto International Film Festival, the Hulu original film Swiped, is now streaming only on Disney Plus. Hey guys, welcome to another edition of Happy, sad, confused. I am Josh Horowitz. This is my podcast where I talk to cool and interesting people that hopefully you will find as cool and interesting to you. This week's guest is a fine young actor, a really remarkable talent considering he's so,

young. He's, I think he's 30. Paul Dano is my guest this week. He is starring in a excellent, excellent new film called Love and Mercy, which tells the story of Brian Wilson of the Beach Boys. If you don't know, I mean, everybody knows the Beach Boys, right? Everybody knows some of their songs. And you probably know a little bit about Brian Wilson. You know that this is a guy that had had drug problems, had mental health issues. And this is kind of, you know, and this is kind of of a biopic, but it's really well done. It's, um, Paul and John Cusack actually both play Brian at different parts of, uh, his life. Um, and it's, it's, it's an intimate story. It's a, it's a, it's a, it's a character piece. It's got great supporting performances from Paul Giamati and

Elizabeth Banks. And, uh, it really gets at, um, the nature of, of creating art and inspiration and the damage that people can experience. Brian Wilson has had a tough life for many different reasons. But it's one of the special movies so far this year, and especially in the summer movie season where we are dominated by blockbusters. It's one definitely worth seeking out. Check out love and mercy and check out this conversation with Paul, who you know this guy's work, whether, if you listen to this podcast,

you probably are a fan because Paul, has been in some great movies. He's been in There Will Be Blood. I mean, he was insanely good in that opposite to Daniel Day Lewis. Loper, Little Miss Sunshine, 12 years of slave. This guy works with the best filmmakers and continues to prove himself as one of the most versatile actors of his generation and certainly one that he's in it for the long haul. And he's off to a hell of a good start in this first, you know, 10, 15. years of his career. So thrilled to get to know Paul a little bit today and to talk about some of his best films, most notable films, as well as share some time. You know, I like to talk to

New Yorkers. He's a New Yorker like me. So always good to welcome a New Yorker into the podcast. So that's what this week's show. As always, I encourage you guys to hit me up on Twitter, ask me anything with the hashtag, happy, sad, confused. Yeah. Here is one. someone wants to know what I thought of Jurassic World. Well, that's on the other side of the equation, right? Talking about love and mercy, this tiny little movie that needs your love. Jurassic World doesn't necessarily need your love, but you probably love it. If you saw it, I really had a great time.

I don't know if I wouldn't say I loved it, but I liked it a hell of a lot. I had a great time with it. I think it's a worthy part of the franchise. I think it was kind of like a giant homage for me to the first film. hit all the same notes. No, it's not as well done as what Steven Spielberg is capable of. There are no set pieces that are as great. The characters maybe aren't as strong. There's no Alan Grant or Sattler or certainly no Ian Malcolm that I'm going to think of for 20 years. But, but Chris Pratt's pretty good. And Bryce Dallas Howard's pretty good. And the action is well done

and it moves and the music's great and it's fun. And certainly it's all you could ask for in a summer movie. I hope that doesn't sound like faint praise. Okay. It's a good movie. It's a solid movie. It's worth your time. I'm going to see it again. I'm going to try and see it with a crowd because that's the way to see a movie like this in a big theater. So those are my two cents on Jurassic World. A good summer movie. I'm happy. You should be too. What else can I tell you? Speaking of Jurassic World, some really fun stuff I got to do recently with Chris Pratt on MTV's YouTube page, specifically MTV News's YouTube page. It's a new page that MTV News has launched, you know, Google MTV News, YouTube, you'll find it. Some really fun interviews with Chris Pratt. If you ever wanted to hear Chris Pratt read Dinosaur Erotica alongside Bryce Dallas Howard, now is your chance. It's waiting for you on the internet, so don't blow it, guys. Some really cool guests coming up.

Oh, I'm looking at the wall. I'm looking at the upcoming guests. I want to read the names to you, but I'm not going to because that would jinx it. That would curse it because then they would cancel on me. and then there would be no guest for you to listen to. So instead, I'm going to let you listen to my conversation with Paul Dano, which exists. It happened unless I erased it. It is about to go into your ears.

Are you ready? Okay, I'm going to take your silence as a yes. Here is my conversation with Paul Dano. Make yourself comfortable. Nicole, do you want to? Close the door? Yeah. Yeah.

Is there Wi-Fi in here or no? No. Sorry. You're going to have to be entertained by us instead. Good luck with that. Now the pressure's on, Paul. Shit. We not only have to entertain the millions listening, but you're publicists.

And with that, we're off and rolling. Do you feel it? Oh, yeah. I feel good. Yeah? Yeah. I can tell you feel good. I do.

No, I believe you. Yes? Should I believe you? Yeah, you should believe you? Okay, good. I'm going to close my laptop. It's a nice rainy day here in New York. It's lovely.

It's a little humid, a little sticky for my taste, but you seem to be going with a flow. I'm happy because our air conditioner just got fixed. That's so funny. I lost, we lost our AC for a night, two nights ago, and it was hell. Sweaty, man, sweaty. It's actually, it makes you feel a little crazy. Yeah. You think you can gut it out, and then.

We're weak, we're weak humans in the 21st century. Congratulations. Let's get the congratulations out of the way, because I love this movie. I love this performance, love and mercy. You know, you and John and Brian and Bill have all been making the rounds, and rightfully so this is a movie that deserves and needs love. I mean, it's a small movie. But this has got to be a satisfying kind of press tour versus some that are more work, right?

Yeah, it feels really good, actually. I mean, first of all, sometimes finally sharing the film actually put some closure on it. and I think this was probably I think it's the most fun I've ever had acting and it was like a really important and special experience for me so it does feel good to get it out there it's actually easy and fun to talk about

and I think I love Brian so much and just I don't know I got a lot from him I got a lot from him and his music and so to sort of help to like try to pass that on or whatever he gave to me makes it actually really nice. I've heard you mentioned this in other interviews, and it sounds like,

I mean, the Beach Boys are on that level of cultural touchstone that you can't ignore, you can't avoid no matter what. I mean, like, I'm a little older than you, but I remember growing up, like, sadly, my first touchstone was like Kokomo, and it was like, oh, my God,

like that there's so much more than that. And I'm still, frankly, not, frankly, this film helped stimulate more interest, and it's one of those movies that makes you want to go back and research a little bit more and sort of fill in the gaps. In terms of researching a film, this has got to be a fun one just to like spend months and months

just like diving in at first. Yeah, no, it's the best. I mean, that that was my job for, you know, six to eight months, was listening to the Beach Boys, was learning to play those songs, was looking into 1960s, Los Angeles, like all these young guys and not just the Beach Boys, but like the Reck and Crew,

studio musicians he worked with Phil Spector's guy I mean there was teenagers in these beautiful studios making music it was a highly creative time and it was just so fun it was so fun I mean to listen also the the pet sound

sessions and the smile sessions and you see some of the you know the studio scenes in the film those those two box sets are I really think one of the great documentation of an artist at work right like when you hear the songs coming together when you hear Brian trying to figure it out, talking

the musicians, hearing stuff, hearing the energy and sort of sometimes the fun they were having and then sometimes the sort of really sort of repetitive nature of it was just like a beautiful thing to throw yourself into. And that's one of the things actually that struck me in watching the movie.

I think about it's a tough thing to convey in a film also the artistic process, whether it's like, you know, there's only so much dynamism of a guy at a typewriter writing. or coming up with it or being inspired. But you guys really conveyed it in a really unique and special way that I can't think of another film that's been able to do that.

Good. Thank you. Yeah. So were you attached to this for a while or was that this all happened relatively quickly? I think I got involved with it around January of, I guess it was 2013. I think we filmed July and August. So I had like a nice six months. months to sort of, I mean, it was amazing because it was just one of those things. Like the first time I, when I read the script, I think I started preparing for the part, like immediately, even though I didn't have it yet. You know, like I got a biography right away. I got the music, read the script again, listening to the music. And like you're lit up so quickly by the music. You know, I felt like I was already working on a part that I didn't have. How often does that happen? Not often. No, no, really. I mean, it was like,

very, you know, as an actor, you want to think you can play every part you want, you know, right? You want to get parts like this and that. But this, this, this was different for me. It was a different feeling. And, and so I had a lot of time to get ready for it. I think I was the first actor maybe involved. I don't think John Cusack or Elizabeth Banks for Paul Giamati were involved yet. And, yeah, the thing, I mean, Playing somebody who's well known and who's alive, the amount of resources I had was like, it was so fun. I mean, just reading like every magazine article I could get my hands on from the 60s about the Beach Boys. So fun, though.

I mean, it's so dorky, but it's like just the photographs. I mean, you know, staring at photos for hours, you know, and just see like, because when you see a good photo, you see something in the person, you know, whether it's in their eyes or their body or. You know, and so yeah, I just, I got to spend a long time just surrounding myself with it. I'd read somewhere that there was a, there was a point in a much different kind of a musical project that you were attached or you were Talk of Jersey Boys at one point. Was that something that got that like that fueled into this? Like, okay, I'm in getting in the musical mindset, I'm ready to sing on screen in a big way and that's going to help me when that one fell apart and this one came around. That kind of helped anyway? funny. I mean, it's funny because the four seasons, you know, similar

time and, you know, the early sound of the Beach Boys, I think you could compare a little bit to some of that. No, I don't think that that had anything to do with it. I mean, you know, maybe if I wanted to be like really in touch

with the universe about it, it was like somehow time to sing, you know, on camera or something and, you know, music has been a big part of my life and you know I play a little bit but I think I also you know probably the first acting experiences I had were musicals you know it came from like singing in school led to doing plays in school and musicals so you know I think it is it is part of the reason that I'm an actor and I think you know for me that having that music stuff actually did bring something new to

acting for me. And I'm not sure if I even know what, but there was like a new spirit to the project. I literally think just because the music, I mean, I think even for the crew, like the feeling, like when we had those live musicians in the studio every day, like, feels so good to hear that music. Like, it felt so good, like for everybody. And I think that we were able to get some of that spirit of the music in the film. One of the, There are a lot of scenes that I could point to among my favorites in this one. But one of my favorites is when we hear your character,

when Brian's singing Godily knows, and it turns, it's a beautiful rendition of it, and then it turns into this really tragic scene that really encapsulates the relationship between him and his dad. Is that, for both sides of it, both the singing of such an iconic song, a song that Paul McCarney calls like the gray song,

literally ever done? And then also that kind of, dramatic back and forth. Is that a day that's circled in the calendar as like, this is going to be an important one? Right. Yeah. I think so, but I, you know, I mean, I think I feel that way, usually about every scene,

you know, and I really love the details, you know, of what we get to do. So, but yeah, that was certainly, actually the first big circle was, playing and singing God only knows was scary because. it's a song a lot of people love, you know, like Paul McCartney. But I think it was our, it wasn't even our principal photography yet. It was like a pre-sute day during our pre-production. I had to play and sing surfs up. Right. And that's a really hard song. And I hadn't yet done it for anybody, you know, just on my own. You know, I worked with somebody in Brian's band. I worked with a voice teacher here in New York. And I think our director had heard me sing, but nobody else. Now we have a big crew around. And, you know, I'm about, I'm playing Brian Wilson now, and I have to, one of the first things I have to do is play and sync surfs up and I was terrified, you know, I mean, I really was, you know, you're shaking and, you know, it's really, gay, because, you know, I had to learn to play the piano and, you know, we're shooting on film and, God, you know, you want to be able to really, like, sink into it and enjoy, and, you know, and you're like, why can we shoot on digital this one day, so I can just do it 12 times without bothering anybody. Yeah. But then, you know, we were in the studio that Brian recorded, actually recorded in the 60s. And, you know, I sat down for about three hours at the piano and played and sang surfs up for like three hours. They moved the camera a few times. And it was like, you could feel the, like, you know, you could kind of feel the character coming, you know, coming into shape. And it was, that was really special. since we have some time, I do want to talk about sort of like background and the filmography, which is like, you know, it's always a pleasure to kind of dive deep and look

at someone's work that I admire and realize that you're, what, you're about 30 or you ever take? And like, it's a hell of an accomplishment to look at your career because I would count myself, like there are eight or ten movies on that IMDB right now that I would call truly great, great, great films and that's that's hard as you well know and sometimes it's a crap shoot and it's out of your control and you can only control so much

do you take a certain degree of pride in the kind of varied films that you've been in and how many times they've hit the mark or you've hit the mark or are you a little yeah I mean I think I take pride in like the people I've been able to like collaborate with you know so I think I

think I really get off on that it's really fun to work with people you admire or can learn from and it makes you better and because I you know I've been working for a little bit but was in my 20s you know I really felt like um all I have is to learn like that's like actually the most important thing even though I'm yes maybe beginning to be an adult or beginning a career or this or that like that felt like the most important thing to me right and I think that uh yeah I get a lot of pleasure out of being like in the in the thick of it with with some people that I care about you you grew up

you were born and grew up in in the city in New York yes and then moved to Connecticut and again the sequence right yeah so um I was like to welcome New Yorkers here because I grew up in New York having left still don't have a driver's license you're probably really there I got a license yeah so you're a real adult I'm not yeah congratulations have you ever lived in LA I mean beyond just for a couple months for a job or something no I've never lived there I've worked there. You know, I love, I love it when I work there and when I'm not working. I like to be here at home. So what were the ages that you were here versus Connecticut? I was here through like third grade. So, you know, young, we moved out of here. We were in a one bedroom apartment

and, you know, there was four of us, me and my sister, my mom and dad. And we just had to do this suburb thing. Which was good. You know, I definitely, like I'm glad I got both and I do sort of, I really do value my suburban years as well. Like being bored with your friends in like the woods or driving around in a car bored

is actually like a super important experience for me. And when did you come back to sit there? I came back. Well I started acting while I was in Connecticut so I did start doing some plays here in New York so I started in the theater and so I would take the train

in or get a ride in from one of my parents And then I moved back straight out of high school to hear. So you mentioned starting to do plays. I mean, one of the formative ones sounds like with some powerhouse talents talking about being associated with great people, but to work with someone like with George C. Scott, right? Who notorious, I mean, obviously he's an amazing actor, but also like an actor who, from what I remember reading,

like didn't necessarily suffer fools and was pretty tough with some people. How was he with a kid? Like, you know, I think he was cool. I mean, it almost feels like somebody else's life. You know, like, I think I was like, I think I was like 12. You know, I mean, that's young. And I actually think it started by, I was doing community theater in Connecticut. And so somebody asked me to do a regional play in Connecticut.

And then from that, somebody asked me to audition for something in New York. And then suddenly, yeah, I was in a Broadway play with George C. Scott. I wish that I knew what I'd had then I mean I think at 12 my priorities were You weren't watching Patton when you were 11 You weren't I wasn't I actually do think I remember watching

Parton because my parents were like you know George Scott's a pretty big deal Like you know here's who he was But no I just mean like your friends And like basketball and like all the other stuff Is just as important at that age I do wish now I had like a great Georgie Scott like story where I was like

I could have picked his brain or heard stories or... You can make one up now. No one is going to quarrel. There's no one around to fact check this. I, you know, I wish. I mean, I remember his physicality. Like, I mean, first of all, I was small, you know, but I was a, I played somebody who was on the witness stand in a trial. And I remember him standing over me.

And he felt like a big man. His voice was also very gravelly at that point. You know, a lot of character in his voice. And he had a big presence. I mean, he's an amazing actor. So I wish I could, like, pop back there and have more of a window into it now. This episode of Happy Second Fused is brought to you by Lute Crate. Would you classify yourself as a geek, gamer, or pop culture nerd?

Well, then this is the subscription box for you. For less than $20 a month, you get six to eight items of gamer and pop culture licensed gear, apparel, collectibles, unique one-of-a-kind items, and more. Make sure to head to Lukecrate.com slash happy, and enter code happy to save $3 on any new subscription. Every month is a different theme, and all items are curated around that theme. They're all inspired by a classic movie and video game releases, as well as pulling from pop culture franchises.

Previous crates have included items from franchises like Star Wars, Marvel, the Walking Dead, the Legend of Zelda, and many more. This year, thus far, there have been crates featuring some exclusive items from Star Wars and Voltron, as well as some epic geek apparel, and an awesome retro gaming-inspired mash-up figure, a crate all about strategy games, a crate all about covert operations, and there's only more awesomeness to come. Basically, Luke Crate is like a friend who knows what you love and surprises you with an awesome present every month. You have until the 19th at 9 p.m. Pacific to subscribe and receive that month's crate. And when the cutoff happens, that is it, guys. It's over. So go to lookcrate.com slash happy and enter code happy to save $3 on your new subscription today. I was curious.

It was like an 11-year-old who's like doing whatever, six or eight shows a week, have like more or less nerves than you. you have, I mean, you're obviously, you've been doing this a while now. You're a professional. Hopefully you wouldn't likely have sweaty palms before you go out on stage every night if you're doing a play now. But, like, I don't know. Where does that come from? Where does that go away? When does that go away?

I don't think it has. I don't think so. I don't think so. I mean... Do you get nervous before, like, the first day of a shoot? Totally. Terrified. Absolutely.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think in a good way, though, I think it's sort of, I have a, I think, I have a, I think, you know, I've been trying to, you know, learn how to trick myself from, from fear into healthy fear. And I've read a lot about sports psychology, actually, because of it, you know, now that I've ever had a problem with it, but I'm just interested in it. But I do think that that sometimes brings out the best in us, you know, is when we, you know, when we're scared, you know, in a good way, scared in a good way. You know, and I think that's how I like to feel

in general, you know, some of the, you know, when you're talking about my work before, that's the other thing, like having the patience to try and find something that does give you that challenge, you know, so you are a little bit scared either by the character or the people you're working with or something about that. I think I'm really unhappy when I'm bored. So I think, you know, there's got to be something that makes me excited slash scared. When you look back, like, that's sort of the first films that you were in. Do you, I mean, again, no one can chart out how their career is going to go and, like, consciously decide, yeah, I'm going to start here and then evolve here and move to Petey

Anderson's going to call it, I'll do this. But in a way, do you feel lucky in that, you know, aside from something like girl next door, which was its own kind of thing, and, like, ironically, wasn't a huge commercial thing, but turned into this cult thing. Yeah. You were, from the start working with really interesting filmmakers on really, like, smaller but really powerful smart films in a way to have you that that's that's helped you kind of like already you know establish the right kind of career for yourself i think so i hope

so i hope so yeah yeah i um i mean were you going up for shittier kind of bigger films back then and just not getting them yeah luckily you're getting yeah when you start i mean i think you I mean I remember learning that you could say no to something and that was like huge like I was like wait like I don't have to like you you know like that was a kind of an amazing thing just because it means you're starting to have some opportunity you know and some choice which is which is very you know I feel very fortunate and very lucky um I don't know I think I think actually because I did start so young

I did have an early window into not just into acting, but into the industry and just sort of things that I, things that I think I knew would make me happy and things that I think I knew may not. Well, there are different paths. I mean, you could have easily gone out every year for pilot season and done that whole thing. Maybe you did or not, I mean, but.

No, I think I think I sort of knew, I think I knew what I was interested in and just, first of all, I think you have to have a little luck and, you know, like there's life, there's timing, there's stuff that you, you know, but I, I do think there was a conscious choice as well. So what were the films on your wall or the filmmakers that you were obsessed with? Who were the first ones that kind of like, oh, wow, that's good. You know, I think when I wanted, when I first wanted to be an actor, I thought it meant because I grew up, you know, when I grew up here, I did go to see plays. it meant being on stage, you know, on Broadway. So, you know, there was something about, I remember I had a babysitter once, take me with her friends to see Terminator 2.

And I shouldn't have been there. I think she was babysitting me. And like, you know, I was, like, 91 or something. But seeing Arnold Shorts, I was not Arnold Schwarzenegger. So, like, you know, like, there was something in me that was like, okay, if I'm probably going to, I'm going to go, I'm going to go, you know, be on Broadway. But you could have been Edward for a long.

You could have gone that kind of route. God, he's so good in that movie. He is good. I don't think until high school did I really start to get into films. And I think there was a year where there was kind of a year where I saw movies like Boogie Nights, Rushmore, the Thin Red Line. This was all prior to my freshman year of high school. I want to say around like 98, probably. That's the only 98, 99.

That kind of thing. Yeah, yeah. So right around there is when I started to see stuff. where I was like, that's the first time I learned what a director was actually. I think before that, you know, Raging Bull would have been a De Niro movie to me, you know, at 12, 13 or something. And then all of a sudden, you know, something about film started to speak a lot louder. And it was just exposure to, you know, to movies, whether that's through friends or, I don't know how it comes about. I remember with Boogie Nights, my dad read an article in the New York Times and said, you're not seeing this movie, right?

And it's the worst thing he could have said because now you, the number one, goal is to find that movie and go see it. That's a great moment for anyone that ends up like you or I. That's obviously in love with this stuff where like you fall down that first rabbit hole of like a filmmaker. Like I remember for me. Yeah, I have that vivid like seeing Godfather like on that double VHS tape and then like being like, okay, this is not like everything else I've seen. I need to see everything else by this person and then you go see the conversation and then you just it all explodes. And it's such a fun a rabbit hole because once you find something you like, the same thing with like books, you know,

then you look up who that was influenced right and you go. But I think, I think, yeah, I think Jim Carrey and Jack Nicholson were like my first two favorite actors. And then, you know, once you start looking more into Jack Nicholson,

like I remember seeing five easy pieces or being like, wow, like, you know, that is just a beautiful, you know, that's a beautiful film. It's a beautiful performance.

And then you realize that Jack worked with every significant filmmaker in the 70s. And then you get to the last detail, suddenly, and you're like, okay, and now you're at Hal Ashby. Now you're, you know, so it kind of, yeah, it can work like that, which is so fun.

And then once you get into Scorsese and then, you know, Paul Schrader was stuff, then I remember reading Paul Schrader's book on Transcendental Cinema. And so all of a sudden now you're like, oh, well, maybe I got to check out this Bresson guy or this whoever, you know, and you just start to, and it's really fun, yeah. So the filmmakers, have you noticed in any in your own career, like the kind of filmmaker that you have the most fun with on set in terms of like the kind of environment or the kind of technique? or have you found that you're getting off on much different kind of techniques and different kind of vibes on set?

Yeah, I think different. I mean, I think, you know, hopefully the vibe lends itself to what you're making. So I think it depends. You know, I think it depends on, you know, on Love and Mercy, Bill Polar, our director, did a wonderful thing with that studio stuff,

which is not only did we have real musicians playing it live, but he just had two cameras. And he let me be Brian in the sense that it didn't feel like Bill was directing me. It felt like I was directing the musicians. Like, you know, we got to do a lot. We shot a lot. I got to try all the stuff I'd heard on the Petsound sessions.

So he created the right atmosphere to capture the, you know, sort of aliveness of the studio and the feeling of creation. And so each one is different. I mean, I think, you know, again, it's finding people who you feel, you know, a kinship with. And I think, you know, while everybody works differently, I think we're all trying to, you know, make something that we care about. So usually there's, if there's a will, there's a way. And even though people work differently, you find the common grounds.

And do you find that most fascinating in talking to people that some people think they have a good barometer, some people, most people think they have a shitty barometer because it's impossible to figure out on set if you're going to make a good movie or not because there's so many other factors. This is true. But, like, you know, for something like Little Miss Sunshine, like 10% off. it would have not worked you know what I mean yeah totally like is that one that

for instance that that's probably one of the ones that audiences first saw you in in a significant way did that catch you off guard in terms of what

was it Sundance where it's debuted yeah yeah yeah I mean it was you know an independent film yeah and Steve had done anything like that before

Steve had just well we were filming I actually remember seeing I don't know if it was in his trailer or a hotel room he got an advanced copy of 40 year old virgin

before it had come out in theaters. So I remember watching it. I think, like, me and Tony Collette and a couple of years, Steve was like, I have this movie that we just finished. Like, you know, I want to show it to you guys. It was like, great. And so he hadn't even, you know, become Steve Correll, as we know him now. That is a good example of that movie was really fun to make.

And we did have a really good feeling. Like, we, you know, we're stuck in that van together. And I think we felt like we sort of. you know went through with that family did in a good way you know i think we loved each other i think we got like really hot and cranky in there sometimes i think we had all the you know um and uh and we we had wonderful directors um and uh so i was really happy when the film turned out because it you you actually don't i've found that you don't know right i mean you know i've had experiences where i thought this was amazing and it you know it turns out okay or something where i was like that

wasn't you know and then it turns out great and you know it's So, no, I had no clue to them as Sunshine would get seen like that. Or that people would just, I mean, I think a lot of people saw themselves in it. Right. It was really kind of exciting. There was something for everybody. I have to ask you about there will be blood because it's a perfect movie kind of. So you can't escape this office without talking about it.

There's a lot of things I could ask about it. But I mean, for anybody that knows about the production of that film, you were not the first actor cast in those roles. And that's always an uncomfortable situation. So when you, how much time did you have between getting the call from Paul and when you were acting opposite Daniel D. Lewis? Yeah. So originally I was just going to play the first brother who sells the land or sort of where it gives the hint, you know, the tip for for some money of where there's some land with some oil. And then I ended up going. down there and I think it was like a Thursday and uh Paul then said you know I think I want you

to play this other part and you um and I said okay great you know I was pretty excited and I mean you know what kind of part that was that's exciting when do I start and they said Monday you know and um yeah I only had I was only supposed to be there for a day or two so I think I had a backpack with me with like a change of underwear you know and and all of a sudden I was in Texas and um I mean that was uh yeah so I think I had like three three days to get ready for it and then we started and I think we were doing six day weeks in the desert I think it was July and August in Texas it was I mean it was like a fever dream uh it was beautiful but it was uh it was very intense very hot um and and I wonder you know that there are times where of course

that material is so beautiful and the words that Paul writes in the world that he creates that having even more time to have spent and it would have been amazing but also I think I was maybe I was 22 but something about just having to throw yourself in

and actually literally not having time to think you know so a lot of the scenes I did I had to learn the lines the night before and then just you know try and throw myself at it as hard as I could because also there was just felt like there was something so mythic in the film or Greek or you know I mean they're Paul and Daniel are such a balsy artist you know they're just and

they're perfect for each other I um you know so I got really lucky to to be there and yeah I wish I could watch it I'm in it so I really can't like watch it but what those you know I mean I really uh yeah he's um he's an amazing filmmaker and he's a great guy is um are you as fascinated and understand the the rather understand the fascination with daniel's technique as as other people are i mean is it as mystical and odd as it's made out to be or does it feel like when you're in the moment you're like i get what he's doing i get why he's doing it the way he i think it is that it's funny because i think yeah the impression that that one gets just from hearing about it is that maybe it's quite out there or you know and i think when you're there especially look i mean

we're what we were the early 19 turn of the century we're on a 40,000 acre ranch there's nothing else around except the little town they've built in the houses and when you show up and you're talking to daniel plainview it's uh it it makes a lot of sense and i and i actually think that um it well i'll just it makes it definitely makes sense yeah yeah yeah no but it's also like part of acting is, you know, to me, or one of the phases that I have to go through is just losing self-consciousness about, you know, and forgetting that I'm acting.

I'm trying to remove myself. And so sometimes the closer, you know, you can be with the character for some, you know, I think that's makes it easier sometimes. I'm not saying for him for me. Yeah. Yeah. Do you find that like we were talking about like early films and obsessions like, So, you know, as we're talking today, like, Jurassic World has made a gazillion dollars over the weekend, and it's a fun movie.

I liked it. But, like, you know, judging from the kind of movies that you generally take, your taste doesn't necessarily, or are you correcting from wrong, does it job with what is dominating the multiplex now? Do you feel you're out of step with the time in a weird way, or do you enjoy what 99% of America is watching every weekend? No, I mean, I'm definitely, I've got to go see Jurassic World. I am excited. I mean, dinosaurs. I remember Jurassic Park. I actually think because we thought the lines were going to be so long.

I think my mom took us out of school early, me and my sister that day. It's good priorities. And I think we went to like a 1 p.m. matinee on a Friday the day it opened. Nice. I mean, this is, you know, some time ago now. But, yeah, I think both. I mean, you know, again, I think I would, I would love to, like, for example, I love science fiction. I would love to

you know I would love to do something huge and with space and like I think it's beautiful and I think it's a fascinating world and you got to be a looper which recently is one of the best

yeah yeah yeah and I think I'd love to play I'd love to play a hero and I'd love to play a villain at some point you know I would I just I also you know I think I want to feel like I can you know

really be there for character and that it's mine. And I think I also, I still, I really love, you know, the director is like my number one collaborator. So, you know, that's super important to me. And so hopefully I'll get to try my hand at everything at some point. So, so having said that and wanting a chance to kind of do those kind of bigger and integral parts that you've gotten a chance to do, but maybe not in the big, big films. How much does your heart sync when someone like me says, and they Google your name. And one of the first things that comes up is a montage on YouTube of you getting hit

and beaten. Is it sad in you? Do you want it removed forever from YouTube? You know, I haven't seen it yet. No, I don't think so. I think at first I was like, oh, shit, have I really been, you know, like, yeah, I guess I've gotten. It's only a few films that has a lot.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's not. but no I sort of go through the no I mean I wouldn't you know I certainly wouldn't take back any of that work so you know no I don't think so but yes certainly does make me think okay well I have to go kick some ass you know as some time soon there was there was a mention among other films there was a warcraft there was there was talk of the born movie did you ever meet with Tony Gilroy about that one I don't know I don't you know you don't like into that kind of thing that's fine no worries but well tell me Like, is it weird when you have to, like, do, I was like, you know, because from my perspective, it's fun to talk about for an actor, maybe not, but auditions. Fascinating, another rabbit hole to go down. Yeah.

When you have to pretend to be the cool guy in an audition and all you've got is like a hairbrush as a gun. Yeah. Is it one of the most saddest parts of your life, or can you just accept it as part of the game? Yeah, I mean, I think if it's one of the saddest parts of your life, If you're not getting the part. No, you're not getting the job. So, you know, yeah, that's another. You're living for that hairbrush.

You have to delude yourself, you know. But I do think, yeah, that's hard, man. I mean, auditioning. I mean, I remember, like, when most of my friends, like, got out of college and they go for their job interviews, you know, and that's, like, a really scary time in their life. And then hopefully, you're right, you get a job, and hopefully you have that job for a while.

I mean, being a technically, I'm a freelance, you know, work or like three times a year you have to go back job interviews like all that you know especially when you're starting out the amount of auditions the amount of rejection it's crazy actually i mean you know i feel very lucky again you know uh even the best ones get rejected totally i mean it is it's insane and an auditioning can be you know especially again when you're starting out like the depending if you do have to you know you're probably going to audition for any audition you can get yeah you know and yeah there's probably some some some things that aren't going to make you feel good leaving there was there was there one at the time that that you felt close on that was like

this is going to change my career i'm going to get this and it's all it's i've done it not to make you relive a no i'm trying to think um i think there's been a couple you know i think my answer i mean i'm not going to say what you know i do think there's a couple things, but they wouldn't have been, you know, it wasn't Jurassic world. There was, you know, every other than there's something that you really love and you're like, this would, you know, and doesn't always go your way, you know, and that can, if it's something that really, you know, inspires you, it's, it's a bummer, you know, really is.

How do you recover, is it just? Because, I mean, that, you can't go out and act the next day. You need someone to pay you. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, that's the hardest part about it, you know, somebody else's words and then somebody else cuts it, somebody else markets it, you know, so you really, you really, I think that's, again, you know, why it matters to me, like what I do because I literally have to give myself over to this thing. There's a lot of trust involved, I guess, in that way, so. You're working with Steve McQueen again, yes?

Yeah. Have you shot that already, the ATV project? No, so I think we are. You hopefully are. Okay, okay, fair enough. talk about another genius like artist

like Steve McQueen and talking about sort of the environments on a set versus what you're making and sometimes they overlap and sometimes they don't I mean I remember talking

to Fastbender about this at the time and Tuatel and it was sort of like you have to turn it off at the end of a take like that or else

you'd be living in hell for six months yeah I mean there's a huge different Like, you know, so again, like Brian Wilson, like when I'm riding the subway, you know, to whatever, you know, thing I have to do that day, like, such a fun thing to daydream about or to listen to on the headphones, right, or to, you know, bring a article with from 1960s Rolling Stone to read on the subway. Something like that is, you know, it's, it is a different way of working in some ways because, you know, right, it's not the thing you lay in bed dreaming about playing somebody really hateful or something, right? But, you know, for me, when I get those opportunities, then it's about the story and the film and the people you're working with and like, okay, I'm contributing, you know, I have to sort of bring out that character as best as I can for the sake of the story, which ultimately is hopefully a good thing, you know, a good film or, yeah, I think, boy, that was another, oh, man, that was the summer in Louisiana, period clothes.

remember we were in a small town at one point we had a few rough days of shooting and I remember I think we had to go to like there was not much around so I think we had to go like the chilies and got these huge margaritas you know they had

and I mean we needed that you know I mean like is there a larger size available please you know and that again is a set and that's a great feeling when you walk on the set and the crew is in sync with what's Like, you know, there's like a tangible atmosphere, partially because of Steve and the other actors and the story that everybody knows that you're telling.

That is really exciting. I think it really does bring out the best in people, you know, not just my, I mean, I love that. And that is, that is really cool. Yeah, I would think that I would think that must happen on a set for a filmmaker that were legitimately, whether the crew has worked with them five times before or they just all revere them. it's like this is what it probably happens on a Scorsese set and Spielberg et cetera it's just like this is it let's make the most of it yeah and that's a really i mean it's a great feeling because also you know the crew there there's you know probably longer hours than we are even i mean they're working their tails off and it is really fun when everybody's in it together even if

we're not all talking about it you know sometimes i show up to work and yeah have my headphones in my whatever and i go and do my job or but you can still feel you know sometimes a certain connection with with the piece that everybody's you know sort of contributing towards and that's great and Steve's an amazing guy to work with and for yeah um he's really uh I mean I you know he he he can know what he wants and he's you know uh he's an incredible filmmaker but he's also like really exciting like he's really um he can be like a school boy on set you know when something happens that's really you know so he's got a beautiful energy that I do think, you know, goes towards all of us on set.

What's the last film you saw that you fell in up with recently? The last film I saw, well, dude, I just saw it. So I saw Mad Max the other night? I've been away, so I got back and I heard everybody was saying that it was really good. How old is George Miller? 70. Dude, that movie, I mean, that movie is an acid trip. The opening sequence with the flashes, and I mean, I could not believe a seven-year-old man made this movie.

I've seen it five times. It's totally bananas. It is so bananas. And also, I mean, I was really curious about it just, like, how much of it, you know, was in his head before and storyboarded or how much of that is discovered in the edit room because the pace and the intensity, you know, it's, you know, it's, so I think I loved it. Do you know, I was just sort of amazed by it. I was like, I can't believe somebody made that that it exists and, you know, I might have to see it again, too. And, you know, he, yeah, the story behind it is that it was all storyboarded. There was no script.

There was 3,500 storyboards. Yeah. I mean, it's totally bananas, though. I think that was the most recent thing I saw in the theater. Because you've been away for a bit on set, right? Yeah, I have. Yeah, I've been away for a while. You've been war and piecing.

Yeah, I've been in Lithuania, Lopje, Russia for five months. Wow. Welcome home. Yeah, so I've been on a steady diet of British and Russian cinema for the past five months. so you need to catch up on oh my god you know what we watched actually we watched E.T on Blu-ray the other night

and I hadn't seen that since I was a kid shut a tear or some cold hearts and stuff in it and there's like not a whole lot of dialogue even it's like really like I was really yeah I was really moved by it I mean it's as much yeah that John William's score is like the yeah that's where E.T gets drunk at home

and Elliott's at school right it's amazing yeah it's so good beautiful have you uh yeah you need to get into a spill work film man let's get you into one of those yeah that be okay that you'd be cool with that yeah i'm excited for the new one yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah um so what's coming up next to you have some downtime now that you're um yeah i'm gonna have a little bit of time um you know so i've got love and mercy out which i'll do a little hustling for and then i'm actually i think in december early december this film called youth this guy palo sorrentino you and cam for that one right yeah yeah yeah so um

So, yeah, I think I'll do some more acting this year. But right now I'm going to try and get, yeah, get a recover from War and Peace. How many people can say that? So, day to day when you're on the subway, you're walking around New York, because you're at that interesting level of fame where I'm sure you get a lot of double takes and a lot of, like, I know you from. Is that frustrating that you have to, like, what's your default response when, hey, I know you? Because that must be the worst thing to go down where, like,

you don't want to start listening your credits, and it's just. I think I've got, you know, I think, like, when Little Miss Sunshine came out, that was the first time that's, like, really started to, like, happen, like, on a, you know, and that, it really freaked me out at first. And now I think, uh, well, first of all, New York is actually the easiest city to be. And I think people are pretty cool and, you know, yeah, or they just don't give a shit, you know, like it's so it's like, that's, uh, that's nice. I, you know, it's, sometimes it can actually be like, really nice, like some, you know, every other than you actually feel like, you actually feel like, And not, not that it was me, but, like, the film might have actually, like, meant something to that person. You're like, well, okay, that's nice. Thanks. You know, like, actually, that was really nice to you to say that. And then sometimes I do, you definitely get a lot of, it's happening, it feels like, more clear now, you know, just maybe with a film coming out more, like, by name. But, yeah, it used to definitely be, like, a lot of, like, did you go to college in Ohio or, like, you know, like, where, like, what high school did you, you know? And I was like, ah, yeah.

That was always funny. And drunk, yeah, sometimes, you know, it can be interesting at a bar. What happens at a bar? What's the typical, or what's the worst bar acknowledgement you've gotten? Well, no, you know, every now and then you get, like, the really loud, like, and, you know, it's just like, okay. You know. You don't want to be the center of attention in your, in your quiet drinking, moments. Yeah, that's right. Let him have his quiet, little bourbon. But yeah, you're

all good. A little affirmation, a little acknowledgement. It's nice. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And you're getting a lot for this one, and it's well deserved. Honestly, it's, it's a great performance. And John as well, and Elizabeth and Paul, it's, it's, there's a ton of great acting in this one and and help me sort of from Dill behind the camera too. And hopefully we'll be talking about this one for months to come. Nice. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Thank you. Thanks for stopping by, man. Yeah, Thank you. Again, we'd like to thank our sponsor LuteCrate, the subscription box for the geek, gamer, and or nerd in all of us.

For less than $20 a month, you guys can get six to eight items of gamer and pop culture licensed gear apparel, collectibles, unique one-of-a-kind items. and more. So make sure to head to Lukecrate.com slash happy and enter the code happy to save $3 on any new subscription. Remember, you have only till the 19th at 9 p.m. to subscribe and receive that month's crate. And when the cutoff happens, that's it. It's over.

So go to lukecrate.com slash happy and enter the code happy to save $3 on your new subscription today. Pop. Pop, Pop, Pop, Pop, Pop, Pop, Pop, Pop, Pop, Pop. Wolf Pop is part of mid-roll media, executive produced by Adam Sacks, Matt Gourley, and Paul Shear. American history is full of infamous tales that continue to captivate audiences, decades, or even hundreds of years after they happened. On the infamous America podcast, you'll hear the true stories of the Salem Witch Trials and the Escape attempts from Alcatraz, of bank robbers like John Dillinger and Pretty Boy Floyd, of killers like Lizzie Borden and Charles Starkweather, of mysteries like the Black Dahlia and D.B. Cooper,

and of events that inspired movies like Goodfellas, Killers of the Flower Moon, Zodiac, Eight Men Out, and many more. I'm Chris Wimmer. Join me as we crisscross the country from the Miami Drug Wars and Dixie Mafia in the South, to mobsters in Chicago and New York, to arsonists, kidnappers and killers in California to unsolved mysteries in the heartland and in remote corners of Alaska. Every episode features narrative writing and cinematic music and there are hundreds of episodes available to binge. Find infamous America wherever you get your podcasts.