Happy Sad Confused - Paul Mescal

Episode Date: November 25, 2024

Josh is catching up with Paul Mescal at a very interesting time. He's only a few years into his film career but with an Oscar nomination under his belt thanks to AFTERSUN and much loved projects like NORMAL PEOPLE and ALL OF US STRANGERS, he's being tested as a major movie star in GLADIATOR II. In this candid chat, Paul talks about dealing with so much attention and what he's prioritizing with so many opportunities at his feet. SUPPORT OUR SPONSORS! Uncommon Goods – Visit UncommonGoods.com/podcast/HappySad for 15% off BetterHelp -- Go to ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠BetterHelp.com/HSC ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠for 10% off UPCOMING LIVE EVENTS 12/1 -- Natasha Lyonne at 92Y in NY -- Tickets here 12/3 -- John David Washington at 92Y in NY -- ⁠Tickets here⁠ 12/18 – Billy Eichner at 92Y in NY – Tickets here 12/19 -- Ben Schwartz at 92Y in NY -- ⁠Tickets here Check out the ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Happy Sad Confused patreon here⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠! We've got discount codes to live events, merch, early access, exclusive episodes, video versions of the podcast, and more! To watch episodes of Happy Sad Confused, subscribe to ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Josh's youtube channel here⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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With 800 points after registration, activation, and first purchase of a dollar or more. See the Tim's app for details at participating in restaurants in Canada for a limited time. So what's your algorithm? What do you get? algorithm, I just got it. Like, I've got to quit the internet. I've got to quit it. It's like too much, like, it's too much, like, of yourself. It's all, you're feeding, it's feeding back to you. There's not enough bakeries and there's too much of, of me. You need to block yourself. I've got to, you need to filter yourself out. More mixed eat less Paul. Anything else other than me, I take at this point. Prepare your ears, humans. Happy, sad, confused. begins now.

I'm Josh Horowitz, and today on Happy, Say I Confused, Paul Meskow is here. This has been a long time coming. Here we are after an exhaustive Gladiator 2 press store that's included hot wings and puppies. Finally. And now Happy Side Confused. I mean, this is the ultimate test. This is the ultimate. This is the final boss.

Yeah, exactly. Thank you for doing this, man. No, I'm really excited. Genuinely excited to be on. Thanks, man. So yeah, so talk to me a little bit about how are you not a shell of a man? I saw you a couple days ago. Firmly a shell of a man.

Let's open there. I'm like, yeah, I'm... Yeah, I'm not all there, man. What's my name? No, I'm good. I'm good. It's just like, haven't done something like this before. Yes.

But we've been like... We've just been super well looked after, but even with that, it's like... It's a lot. It's a lot of talking. It's a lot of, like, seeing your... your big old face everywhere and sound of your own voice but we're are you sick of yourself a little bit oh fully fully fully if you weren't that would be worrisome oh my god absolutely i don't know how people do this consistently right you know yeah i don't know so yeah i have been i

watching a lot of the conversations you've been having as i alluded to you've been doing kind of lots of fun different things i think my favorite is you uh confronting the uber paul meskel fan um competing in trivia and losing to her, basically. No, she's amazing. Yeah. She knew my life better than I did. You're a competitive person. Did you take that well?

I, do you know what? I didn't take it well, but I tipped my hat to Larissa. Like, she, the better Paul won firmly. It's good to know we have a backup Paul, just in case. Exactly. If it all goes. Yeah. Yeah.

If it all goes, so. She can be me. So, okay, so, I mean, we joke about it, but it's true. I mean, like, right now you're having a crazy moment. You are, legit, as you well know, the footage from Dublin, though we were at the L.A. Premier together. Like, you're getting a lot of love, a lot of crazy, wonderful energy. How do you reconcile that with, like, you know, 14-year-old Paul inside?

Yeah. Who didn't, like, none of us had that. Yeah. I mean, there must be kind of like a surreal doesn't begin to describe that. surreal and it's like how yeah it's it's totally surreal it's like I've had even the even the Oscars wasn't this right like like it was a different and I think the great thing about the Oscars is that it's like a total celebration of film but but it's it's shared amongst many many many people whereas with this it's like this is also shared but with less people right

And honestly, it's like, part of me is like, not to say this, but part of me is like, I'm, I wonder if I'm going to pull out this. Right. Because I'm like, nothing on anything else. It's just like it's a lot of, it's a lot of it. But having said that, it's been, the people that I've met, I've been met with, like, incredible kindness and generosity. It's more so to do with just the, the scale. the scale of your perception of yourself changes very, very, very, very, very quickly over a very short period of time. Well, it's funny, and listening to some past conversations you had, you were talking a lot about how, like, life really changed with normal people.

And to hear you talk back then, a couple years ago, even, you were like, yeah, there are degrees, things are a little different now, but the biggest change was that. Now, having gone through this, though, maybe... I think that might be a bit wrong, like, whether I'm right or wrong, I don't, I don't know if I'll fully know that until like, like, five, five, six months down the line. But I think as awful as COVID was, now when I look back in it, I'm like, like, thank God. You kind of ease into fame and all that. away from people because if I'm struggling with this junction now, having had that experience, I don't know what that would have been like at that moment. This is probably my first time articulating that, but it's a specific skill set that you don't learn.

I didn't learn it by proximity to this industry growing up. I didn't grow up in L.A., New York or London. and I didn't know I wanted to be an actor until much, you know, like it was never on the radar, so there was never, there's no part of me learning, it was like any of their childhood, but the kind of desire to be out in the world. But also, you're smart enough to realize that like, that's the gig, you get out in front of the movie

and you do your job, but there's a certain, and tax that comes with that, I think. So my algorithm, my internet algorithm, is basically serving me a lot of Paul. Yeah. basically Paul, dog videos and New York City bakeries. That's what I get in my feed. I get New York City bakeries. Do you? I was going to ask you. So what's your algorithm? What do you get? What do you get? I just got it. Like, I've got to quit the internet. I've got to quit it. It's like too much like, it's too much like of yourself. It's all you're feeding. It's feeding. There's not enough bakeries and there's too much of. of me. You need to block yourself.

I've got to filter yourself out. More mid-skie, less Paul. Anything else other than me, I take at this point. But I think it's just the way that algorithms are cursed, cursed things. Are you, and I'm saying this with love, are you sick of talking about Gladiator? Do you want to talk about something else? What do you want to talk about today?

How should we use our time? I am happy to have any, like, you're a great, interview. I'm happy to go wherever we we but it's it's categorically the most I've ever spoken about yeah any film I think it's the most that anyone has ever spoken about any film but but what was it like to work with Ridley what was it really like I mean I've asked you that like three times so I can only imagine I can talk we can do 45 minutes on Ridley like I'm obsessed oh like so like that'll never get right that'll never get tiresome I have like it's just a you know when you do this amount of talking you start feeling like

like you're becoming disingenuous because you're being asked to tell the truth yeah consistently so you end up saying it's still the truth no I get I mean I have it in such a minute different level like I'll do multiple Q&As with people and I asked the same question and it's like only in my own head I'm like we got asked a question from another interviewer that you had asked asked like I was actually being it was reference that it was a question that my friend Josh had asked earlier and I was like this is like Insection level of press tour.

But we, like, as I've said to you, it's like, paramed up fully, and not to do the thing of like flying the flag, but they've like really, really, really looked after us and they've done a great job with getting, like, if there's anybody on Planet Earth that doesn't know that there's a Gladiator 2 film coming out, they probably don't have a phone.

It's true, it's true. So before a couple of gladiator two things, I do want to mention you're doing SNL soon. I'm doing SNL soon. How do you feel about that? I mean, are you nervous, excited? I'm really, both, both things. I mean, I'm kind of grateful for the fact that I haven't spent the last

a couple of months knowing about it sitting in my room being like, what am I going to do? But I've asked lots of my friends who've done it before. And I think I'm just going to throw myself in there. And the great thing is I don't have a huge amount of time before it starts. So I'm just like, oh, I'll, I'll, into it like looking forward to actually be able to do some version of the work that I right for yeah which is what you love yeah do you bring a celebrity impressions are you going to do surcia Daisy and Scott what do you got do you know I haven't done no celebrity

impressions on the cards as of yet but I'm waiting to see what I mean I'm I'm handing over the ideas I think to the great writers that exist yeah there I have a couple of like ideas about potential sketches but beyond that I think it should be best idea wins and their that's their that's their wheelhouse yeah all right so let's talk a little gladiator I mean so as you you approach something like this which is a ginormous undertaking but from the great Ridley Scott how much is fear of failure a motivator for you is that or is that a negative space do you don't want to know I think fear of failure is is or for me at least it's power for the course

and maybe it's not so much fear of failure it's fear of this idea where the thing that you love most in the world can always get taken away from you right so you want to put your best and it's not necessarily

that's not inextricably tied to just Gladiator 2 it's everything you ever I think if that I would love to have a little bit less of that but having said that the way things have gone in my career in the last five or six years it's been a consistent thing so I don't really want it to disappear too much because it's indicative of something that in an industry sense has been working

for me when so when does imposter syndrome strike most in something like this is it before you even get on set or once you're in it you kind of like okay this is still just acting because it sounds like from our conversations and hearing talk it's like maybe the fear was this is going to be a totally different kind of thing but the reality is like oh it wasn't in moments but i think the imposter syndrome thing that actors talk about is happens at different junctions for different actors for me it's like in the lead up to us and in the talking about it afterwards oh really yeah yeah why is the talking about it because you but you've seen the movie you're proud of the movie you feel so like yeah no it's it's

It's more so to do with the fact that you feel somewhat removed from the creative part of it. So you're, I don't know why, that's a good question. I don't know why exactly it's that, but it feels like a more sterile environment. Like you're trying to, no matter how well you can kind of document a story that happened on set, it's nowhere close to the feeling of making it. Yeah. And there's that itch in the back of your throat. Like, I'm, like, commodifying.

Am I, like, this artistic experience. Like, I've said this story a thousand times. So I'm going to say it again in a way that feels like acting, but in a totally, like, weird, like, context. But my friend Jesse Buckley said something when we were making Hamlin. She was like, and I get it now where she was, and I couldn't understand that at the time.

She was like, wouldn't it be great if just nobody ever saw these things? And I don't, it's not meant. And in the sincere sense, it's just like, nothing is ever as good as the making of it. Right. No matter how well something is received, no matter how, like, the preparation process is fun, but the act of making it feels, um, and that's why you're doing it. That's, precious, precious. And I'm like, oh, yeah, I get, I fully, fully get that now.

Because you're never, you're, I'm yet to come across. and I've never come across an event in the filmmaking process that I've been accurately able to describe right truly like I'm able to like describe an event but I can't get to the root of what the feeling is often with Amex Platinum

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You might never get another shot at this kind of a thing, for good or for bad. Yeah. Well, to be totally honest, it's like this. this like this isn't that be all and end all for me it's like there's there's there's very few films that I would want to do on this scale generally Ridley Scott makes that so like makes make makes I think any actor worth their salt want to jump out of yeah but it's not like getting into Gladiator 2 has suddenly shifted the goalposts where I'm like,

I want to do Gladiator 3, 4, 5 and 6 and 7 and 8 and 9 and 10. That's just not the case because that's not... I love making independent films. There's two kind of independent films coming out next year. You know what I mean? I do. But on the other hand, this proves, maybe proves to you, again, like like, oh, you can work on this level

and with an artist like Ridley Scott and it can still feel authentic and grounded and rewarding. Absolutely. It's possible. It's not often. It's not often. And it's like, even at that, it's like,

you're not just doing it for that feeling either. You are also doing it for the bits that feel epic and big. Sure. The furthest thing from independent cinema. You're doing it also for that reason. You're doing it to address the Coliseum at full voice with blood pouring off your face.

Right. But you're also doing it for the moments where you can find a lane that feels like an avenue to express artistically the way that you want to express. Are there examples you can think of in films of this type? I mean, you could probably point to the original Gladiator for one,

but beyond that, where you've seen performances that have cut through and have felt authentic and grounded, whether you had it in your mind or not. but, like, that can get past all the bombast and, et cetera, and still feel as authentic and real as the stuff you do in a lost daughter or whatever. Yeah, I'm sure there's a brain's going to be stuck. Why are you asking me to think, Josh? Have you seen what?

It tends to think thoughts and fails miserably. What are some that jump out to your mind? Okay, so you grew up. Indiana Jones. I was going to mention in the Angeles. That makes sense. That's a big one. Some of the Star Wars, you've got some, like, you know, those kind of Daniel Craig and James Bond, like, he's, like, that stuff really feels like, but again, it's still a different muscle.

Like, I'm not going to, I'm not turning on Indiana Jones' last crusade and going like, I want, like, even though the performance is fantastic, I'm not looking at that like I would. Right. It's a different metric. It's a different metric, but that's the challenge. Right. That's the challenge of a big film like this. How serious do you think, I know you're going to be working with Ridley again, but how serious is it about Gladiator 3?

How many actual conversations have you had for them? I've had, like, I mean this sincerely. I've had about two conversations with him, and they've been in an interview context. But like we're hopefully looking at other things that will happen. happen before that. I think the key thing with that is that there can't be any rush with that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Any past castmates you want to invest do we get Andrew Scott in gladiator gear? I think we've I think we said it in Ireland and we

get search and Andrew Scott and we get Jesse and we get Barry and we get oh my God the All-Stars the Irish All-Stars. Yeah we get them we get them all and we get them all They'd get them all in the mix. Yeah. Sold. I spoke to Joe prior to this for A Quiet Place Joe Quinn. Yeah. When I asked him his celebrity doppelganger, he said Daisy Edgar Jones.

Yeah. Do you see that? I think they, did he say he gets that? That's a good question. He gets it or does he agree with it? No, I think he said he gets that. Isn't it such a weird thing that's happening? like this whole celebrity doppelganger and like all of the like it's such a I don't know I think there's definitely like resemblances okay for sure but what were you going to say about the celebrity doppelganger thing you think it's a strange fascination with it or strange or just like it's like it's like there's always it's it's always kind of existed right sure it's been like this is who my celebrity lookalike and it's like I don't know I'm literally thinking about this and

live in my mind about like why that feels odd to me as a thing that has always been there. Well, I think it's like in anything. It's like we're fascinated that there's another version of ourselves in the universe, whether there's celebrity or not. Like we're all unique unicorns. But then there's other, yeah. But wait, someone. But there's faces that we see more like frequently than others and we associate a certain

likeness with them. Yeah. Weird. So I know you didn't grow up like a. cinephile. You were, as you said, you were kind of a late bloomer to all of this. That being said, you watched movies, I would imagine. So what, I mean, were you, were you a Harry Potter kid? Were you Star Wars? Were you Indiana Jones? Like, what were you into? Well, my brother was the big Indiana Jones guy, and that got me into it. I loved, mentioned this before, but I loved

the film, SWAT with Carlin, Samuel Jackson. Like, that was kind of my goat, too. even all the way up to drama school like I remember dad showing me the godfathers for the first time pre-drama school like probably 16 17 and they were the first kind of like old like older films that I was kind of madly impressed with but that it really only came when I was in drama school and knew that I was way behind the ball in terms of right absorbing films but having said that I think it has taught me that like for acting I think it's so it's much more important to me that actors are curious and it curious individuals and people rather than like being well-versed in what films you're seeing and all that that all massively helps

don't get me wrong yeah yeah but actually know about the world as opposed to other actors the world and to be curious about the characters you're playing. I think the great thing about watching films and reading plays is to give you reference points for characters so that you can kind of pick at the, at certain archetypes. Sure. But, and it's also such an individualized thing. Like some people like three, four, five and six know that they're going to be actors. And maybe part of its jealousy for me that I didn't know that.

So like I'm like still trying to, like I remember being in drama school and pretending that I'd read like Greek mythology and stuff. And I was like, oh, yes, yes, yes. Edivus, of course. That's a scary road to go down. Oh, yeah, it was just lots of nodding and going. Yeah, I think I agree with that point. And like, but I kind of played catch-up in that sense in drama school.

Do you feel, because like I have a sense from the outside looking and talking to folks week in a week out. There's this wave. There's a new wave of really exciting talent around your age that I'm seeing. A lot of them are Irish. Some of them are. Do you feel a kinship with kind of like the the Chalames of the world, the Barry Keogh and also the butlers?

Do you feel like I'm part of a wave? And this is kind of exciting. A kinship meaning like an association or like it's a cool, I feel a deep admiration for a lot of those people because I think also we're coming up. And actually Danzel said this in an interview that we did together recently. Like we're coming up in the time of social media,

which is, it's, fucking hell for an actor like in a purely practical sense sure people know so much more about actors yeah now than they did and I think any actor be that like Timothy or Austin or Barry or Jesse or like all of these actors that I deeply admire we're operating in a totally different world to the way the actors that came up for us came up. You know, and I think that's probably true of every generation, but I think there's a very stark,

the social media part of it has changed. It was like Leo was the last of the wave, it feels like. Yeah, that feels like about right. And then there's that kind of middle ground and then, yeah. And it's like for someone your age, it's part of being a human being in a way is to be on social media and to engage with fellow people that age.

So it's like at the same time, it is, antithetical to what you do to expose to much of yourself so it's like it's answer but it's also like that I think I think that's the root of the point that I'm wrestling with at the moment is wanting to protect the bits of my life right and then not but then also having to having not having to but your responsibility to part of the job to promote a film is to get out and do like a ton of interviews because you're proud of the film yeah and and you also don't to sit there and be a boring interviewee but it's it's like trying to express that both of

those things exist that it's like yeah it's not that i don't want to be doing interviews it's that i don't want to be um overly literate with with people's understanding of who i am be that in mannerism be that in personal life be that in anything it's like there comes a it's a lot it's I wish there was a line in the sand, but it's just, it's not that, because it has to move depending on the project that you're promoting, you know? So, like, yeah, Leo's like on that extreme end, and he's allowed to be who he is because he kind of like earned that right, right? Like he doesn't have to, he'll do six interviews and call it a day, and it's a Leonardo DiCaprio movie. God bless him. You know who does it? Well, Mr. Ryan Gosling, the guy you love.

I feel like he toes the line. He gives just enough. Yeah. And we still don't know that much about Ryan. Totally. But I think that comes with also experience. It's like, I think that we're learning on the job actors in my generation where it's like,

we're learning at a point when there is no reference point for it. Yes. It's like, yeah, you're learning in real time. We're learning in real time. And I've made, like, loads of learnings that I'm made from doing this where it's like, oh, certain things, move the needle, other things don't. And that's great to like,

it's a shame to have to learn that. in real time but also it's also information is king I think in in instances like this so you've mentioned to me and others mentioning I mentioned Gosling because you've talked a lot about Blue Valentine yeah just the guy's amazing yeah um have you broken bread with him have you I haven't I saw I saw him at the BAFTA as I was at last year I was with my sister and Ryan was like let's say 10 rows down he was far away he Let's say he's the guts of like 60 meters away. And we make eye contact.

And Ryan goes like this, points at me and goes like, hey. And I'm making direct eye contact with him. And my sister's here and I was like, now Ryan Gosling is looking at me. He sees me saying that. I hope he's not a good lip reader. And his face goes like, huh? So I seek him out after. I was like, I don't know what the fuck just happened.

or about like two hours earlier, but he was, like, you've, indeed, he's an absolute gentleman. And like, as you said, I think he's a real model for how to navigate the delicate act of promoting a film and being, and trying to be yourself within that. But as you said, we don't know a lot about what's going on.

And also on the acting side, an amazing actor who can also toggle between, I mean, he came from Indies and also has that ability to turn on, that movie star thing when he needs to. Yeah. It's pretty remarkable. Yeah. What is the relationship with,

so you were obviously nominated for Afterson, the Oscar, which was a big surprise because it's the size of the film. It was not in that world. So what's the relationship with awards? Because then on the flip side, something like all the strangers, I'm still bitter.

Yeah. Got no love. Our beloved Andrew Scott, what the hell? Yeah, no. I think it's a dangerous thing to ever predict what. Having said that, I'm not going to sit here and be like, it was fucking incredibly exciting to be nominated. I think the context as well, like, if it was to ever, ever happen again,

it's very infrequent when you get to like Oscar nominations morning that you're like, you don't already know if it's kind of happened. Whereas with after someone, we were really like, it's a total, we'd been nominated for a couple of like ones beforehand hadn't been nominated for others. So we were like, I don't know. know how many members of the academy have seen this or how many even know that the film exists. But I think on a like purely artistic level, what that genre and sort of film means to me is everything.

Like that's, if everything else, if this whole industry folded on itself and I had to choose what was left, that kind of film making style would be what I would choose, hands down and that's no slight on anything else. That's just exactly, that's a taste, right? So for that to be the thing that broke through for me in a kind of academy context, like, if it was ever happened again, that will always be the moment where I'm like, that's pretty damn cool. What's your relationship with the ending of all the strangers?

Because a lot of us that saw it, that was like the movie that everybody sat through the credits to process what it just happened. And you, I mean, I don't know if you knew Harry's fate when you started to read that script or not. I didn't. I didn't, yeah. So when I got to that on the page, I was like... It wrecked you just like it did everybody else. There's like a couple of instances throughout

where I was like, oh, okay, but I think the way that it was written, for anybody who hasn't seen all of Australians, I'm sorry, Harry is dead. Harry doesn't exist after the first time that we meet him. yeah but it's not so much just the ending i think when you're watching somebody again in real time who you love and admire this the way that i love and admire andrew scott it's a really moving experience regardless of the actual story when you're watching someone yeah deliver that kind of performance and that's where my

kind of separation with like awards bodies it does separate i'm like at that point who fucking care if you're if you've delivered that performance yeah that's going to laugh can't take that away that that that's forever that's a forever performance and of course you I wanted that for him more than I wanted anything for any other actor I was like please for the love of God but but having said that that that's not that that can never and I think most actors would agree with this that's never a thing it's a really it's a nice cool yeah yeah and an incredibly exciting thing to be a part of but you want the performance to stand the test of

time rather than the number of awards that you're nominated for or win at the end of the day I also I think of that ending also just because of the use of a song and I think it's one of the best uses of a song at the end of the film do you have a favorite like song used in a film like a moment tied to a piece of music that you can think of again I know long press stories is the kind of questions like this is don't make you know I'm got a Because it's in my head, I think what Charlotte did with under pressure is... Yeah, yeah, that's great, yeah.

Because also, I learned a lot about the kind of filmmaking process and not because you were so close to something so small and so mobile that I was like, how they got the rights for a queen song. And then to strip away all the instrumentation and for the estate to agree to it. And to get it for the amount of money that they got it for with the, like, I was like, that's a feat of... producing as well on top of what Charlotte did with this. During the Volvo Fall Experience event, discover exceptional offers and thoughtful design that leaves plenty of room for autumn adventures. And see for yourself how Volvo's legendary safety brings peace of mind

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even when your business is being pulled in different directions. To deliver a quality product at a fair product, while paying your people what they're worth, too. So your business can stay unfazed. Learn more at SAP.com slash uncertainty. So we talked before about, again, you're not chasing these kinds of films that you just did, Gladiator.

That being said, like, are there filmmakers that are operating on that scale that you answer the phone very quickly to? Is it the Denise and the Nolan's? Deni, like, I feel like, Denise. Like, you've named them and Sam and people like that, like who do large-scale, like, I found the first tune and the second to be, like, a real feat and performance and everything.

But, like, the direction of those films is, like, so singular and brilliant. His work, yeah, I mean, a rival, I think, still stands. It's, like, one of, like, the greats. I love prisoners. They're all great. Prisoners is so gross. If the internet is to be believed, and when can we not believe the internet?

Let's be real. It's really true. Did you have conversations that are to treat you at any point? Your buddy Pedro is playing Mr. Fantastic. Did you have that conversation with Marvel? It sounds like you were in that conversation. No, no, no. That was, no. No?

Yeah. Okay. Yeah. And where are you at with that kind of thing? I don't think it's, I don't think it's for, yeah, it's not for me, yeah, yeah, nothing, yeah, I think if, I, I, I, I wasn't brought up watching those films, I wasn't drawn to them in the, like, I was kind of more like a, a Lord of the Rings guy in that sense, like I, so they, they, they weren't films that I was, I was drawn to. So you want to be a hobbit, is what you're telling me. Yeah, please. Put me in a game.

Yeah. We were talking before we started. I missed you in Streetcar, but I'm not going to miss you again because you're coming to New York. I'm very excited about this. I can't fucking waste. So is it a coincidence? It's like you were doing Streetcar right before Gladiator. You're doing it right out of it.

This is a nice kind of bookend. This is kind of like. It's a bookend, but it's like, it's, it's, it's. It's, I just, you don't come across writing like that frequently and especially like that character. And the fact that we've done it before, but we haven't brought it to New York, take a play like that into the, like something felt incomplete to me in the sense that we haven't even, even though it's a, it's a very short run in New York. If you're doing a Tennessee Williams, you want to take it into the Lions Den and see, see how it fairs. And also, I'm, I just love. being on stage and hopefully in the next plan will be in the next two years to

like dedicate like the guts of be to whatever those plays may be but like to really yeah separate from the kind of cycle of making films promoting films I think getting back on stage is like for a for a longer period of time I think would be as high on the list of priorities it is A short run is at BAM. Yeah, we're doing three weeks in the Noel Carrard in London and then five in BAM. Got it.

So no, not enough time for the Broadway run or is that something at some point? No, I don't think that I, yeah, yeah, no, no. It'll be hot tickets, so put a good word in for me, please. Look, we'll sort you. I'll definitely sort you out with that. Yeah. Are you one of those actors that has kind of like

the list of roles that you want to do on the stage? Yeah, there's a few. Yeah. Hopefully, gonna, one of them, I'm definitely not saying. plays musicals both plays at them I've both but the plays it would be plays okay there's two kind of floating around that are close to happening it's interesting like I think of something like Stanley this archetypal masculine role similarly

Lucius on one end of the spectrum as well and then I think of things like all the strangers and these romances that you've done you've done some with Josh O'Connell as well a kind of coming up. Is that fascinate you? Kind of like exploring all the aspects of masculinity. Oh, I just mean like, I don't know. Like, I think I have a fair idea who I am, but I don't really know who I am fully.

So it's like I don't know if it would be, I don't think it would be, I wouldn't find it remotely interesting to kind of operate just in one type of man. or person, but I think I've seen History of Sound and I'm... This is the one with Josh.

This is the one with Josh. And I'm like in love with the film. Yeah. And what Josh and Oliver Herman is our director did with it. It's like, you know, when you make a film and it's exactly what you set out to...

Or when you fall in love with the screenplay and the screenplay, you know what I mean? When the thing is actualized in a way that you want to... Which is, as you well know, it's very difficult, never happens. Yeah, so it kind of alleviates any pressure of like reception in my head at least I'm just like well first stage is

done I satisfied that's what we set out that's what we set out to make as a group of creative so it's like speaking that are you a producer is that the first time you've yeah is that's I mean what's that about for you right now just it's I mean myself and Oliver stuck with that for five years to get it made so like wow whatever actor do in a producerial context like it's a it's a fully gray area but right for me it was about sticking with it and also I think Oliver said or I think between the writer Ben Shattuck and Oliver and myself and Josh this we're the people in the world that know that story the best so it would be like but in terms of a

practical day-to-day thing it was just acting there's enough on my plate with that. Yeah. I heard you another conversation talking about Merrily and how Richard doesn't want you talking about Merrily for the next 20 years. But I do want to ask, because it's a fascinating project. Let's be real. Merely, we roll along. You're shooting this over 15, 20 years with the great Richard Winklater. And by nature of this story, and I love the Broadway, recent Broadway production. So you've shot the ending first, essentially. Because of the way that the, yeah, we've shot the ending. So what was that like for you as an actor? approach something that you know you're not going to complete for 15, 20 years.

Oh, I'm not going to see that until it's done. It's a really amazing, like, time capsule. What a crazy once in a life time. Like, I think, yeah, not to get into it too much, but I think it'll be a really interesting thing on a personal level to, like, watch it back in 20 years time being like, when we were shooting this, that was what was going on in life. And when we did this and God, and then I'll be like, oh, that was just before I was going into Gladiator. So I was like, big or something. I don't know. It'll be, yeah, I think it's a, as you said,

it's a really special style of filmmaking, and it's with kind of the king of that style in Richard Linklater. Unbelievable. And it'll be a constant. It'll be kind of like the closest thing to a day job over the next. Yeah, at least.

He's stuck with me, you know. Stuck with each other. Yeah, exactly. You've a few other things in the count. I just want to mention, you mentioned Jesse Buckley. one of my favorite podcast in recent memory was Jesse and Olivia Coleman together

which was like 45 minutes of just insanity those two. Makes sense to me. You have experience with both. And this is Chloe Zhao. This is Chloe Zhao, the great Chloe Zhao, yeah. You're playing Shakespeare? This is kind of a take on... Yeah, it's Ania's's story. It's about...

Essentially, Anius is the central character and it's about their marriage and relationship. It's based on a book, So it's not, the information on what the project is about is there, but I love those two women with, like, they're really, they went to like a really deep, deep, deep place with it. And I haven't seen any of it, but that's another one where I'm like, I don't really fucking care what anybody thinks about that because it was like, and like, it's going to, I'll be back in that kind of like feeling disingenuous phase next year, I feel like, because. but those two films, in particular, took a lot, took a lot out of me. Yeah. You know, they were close to the bone and far away, and both processes were, like,

like, really challenging and rewarding, but, like, rinsed me. Is there some kind of fun symmetry? I asked Daisy the same question when she was promoting Twisters. you both kind of like had these crazy opportunities this year, this evolution of your careers. You must have checked in with each other like, hey. I was just an awe. Like having done this part of the job now,

I'm in awe of how she navigated that. So like, because like you look at it from the outside and I was like, Daisy's making this look easy. Right. And. I can hold my hand up and I don't think I'm doing my best, but it's not, I'm not finding this bit as, not to say that she found it easy, but I like, I think it's a really moving thing to see your friend operate at that level, both in terms of performance, but also in terms of the kind of like diligent professionalism that is required to like be yourself within this. Like, she's just extraordinary. I'll wrap up in a second.

I know you've been talking a lot. But just, I'm curious, like, kind of coming full circle. I mean, the pressure now in a weird way, you know, we're talking about the pressure of doing films like Gladiator. But, like, I'm always fascinated by that pivot in a career when you start to get the opportunity to choose. For 99% of actors, it's take whatever the hell that you can have.

Yeah. So are you, because you're right now in this such an exciting opportunity for any actor would envy. Yeah. What's the rule of thumb? Do you feel self-imposed pressure to like, kind of like, I need to like,

I have some collateral right now. I have some juice. No, I mean, like if I'm being honest, I kind of know what my dance card is for the next two. For the next little while. So that takes the worry of choice out of this. But that's always been the way that I've, like, look, like I've had dance cards for a certain amount of time

and certain things fall away. so it's never really fixed but I haven't played the game of like let's make something see if it sticks and see what opportunities come my way it's like I've had a real privilege to be looking at scripts and talking to filmmakers over the last since normal people essentially yeah so I just wish there was more time I just wish there was more time to find out where I can do all of these things but you're just getting started you got a lot of time ahead um okay i'm going to end with a happy second few as profoundly random questions for you dogs or cats dogs dogs dogs sorry cat people that's okay it's not really sorry i mean i'm a dog person you're a dog person good good you is the correct

answer yeah what do you think the only answer um what do you collect if anything uh what do i collect I've started journaling much more. So, like, there's a, that's going to be something to collect. That's a collector's thing, I think. Sure. Yeah. What's the wallpaper on your phone? A picture of friends.

It's my dog. It's my dog. It's not my wife. It's my dog. It's the priorities I have in my life. Last actor, actually, this is full circle. Last actor you were mistaken for. Last actor I was mistaken for.

Why is this, oh, because we talked early, yeah. Fuck, what is the last actor? Someone show you a headshot, say, oh, sign this, that's not me. No, I haven't had. I don't think I have had. This is, you're a unicorn. There's only one Paul Meskell. Or if I do, I just, my brain's not working.

Probably the latter. Let's go with a former. Richard Harris. Richard Harris? Or Ridley says that I look like. Richard Harris. So I haven't been mistaken for him. I just really thinks that I look like him.

So it's a different question. No, but I get it. I'll accept it. Worst noted director has ever given you. Worst note a director. I've been really lucky with the directors. Yeah, I had a director say, take, oh, fucking terrible note.

He told me to take, I wasn't wearing a suit, and he was like, take your suit off. And I was like, what do you mean? He's like, take it off. Whatever you're wearing, take it off. Like, not literally, metaphorically. And I was like, what is it? Like, shut up.

Shut off. Although, having said that, that was a really big moment for me in, like, I was like, oh, I get now that sometimes you have to be. Oh, big moment in that. You could speak up and say. I'm actually incredibly great, because there was no malice in the note. It was more so that I was like, oh, I've got to take more agency with, if I don't fucking like something, it's okay, because it's not personal. Right.

I'm just like, that's a, in my head. This is a dialogue back and forth. You're not just taking. Yeah, yeah. Okay. And in the spirit of happy, second few is an actor that always makes you happy. You see them on screen. You're happy.

Happy. Go to your happy place, Paul. Go to my happy place. Tom Hanks makes me happy when I see him. on screen. Love it. Yeah. What's your top of Hanks?

What's, are you a, are you a Turner and Hooch man? Are you a, uh, uh, uh, I just,

uh, yeah, Turner and Houch, uh, um, um, what do I see? No,

do you know what I'm actually going to say? I love Tom Hanks, but you know, who makes me happy in, in a perverse way is whenever I see Anthony Hopkins on the screen. I'm just like, Diled in, perfection.

This is perfection. This is perfection. I think he's, I think he's just the, the best actor. Let's make that happen, that collapse happens, please, please. Movie that makes you sad, I think I know the answer. Yeah, the Valentine makes me sad. And finally, a food that makes you confused, Paul. You don't get it.

Olives. I hate olives, too. I don't get, I don't, it's not that it doesn't actually make me confused. I'm very clear and I hate it of them. No, dirty martinis for you? Martinis are confusing to me. They taste like paint stripper. Right.

With olives on top, I'm like, what are we... Madness. Absolute madness. So olives and martinis. What's the drink of choice? At the moment, it's like a mescal margarita on the sweet side. Do you know Tommy's style? Oh, yes.

I think I do. Yeah, yeah, yeah. A lot of Americans, even though I think it's an American-style martini. Yeah. Yeah, a sweet mascal margarita. Okay. No salt. Well, very specific.

Yeah. Someone needs one ever. It's like, can I get a martini that'll be like, could I get a really sweet cocktail with no salt? Paul and I are going to get some sweet margaritas after this. Congratulations, man. Thank you for making the time on this crazy run. I appreciate you. Thank you.

And I'll see you in Brooklyn. See you in Brooklyn. All right. Thanks, buddy. Thanks, bud. And so ends another edition of happy, sad, confused. Remember to review, rate, and subscribe to this show on iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts. big podcast person. I'm Daisy Ridley, and I definitely wasn't pressure to do this by Josh.

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