Happy Sad Confused - Phil Lord & Chris Miller (PROJECT HAIL MARY), Vol. III

Episode Date: March 23, 2026

It's the movie everyone is talking about and we've got the brilliant filmmakers on to talk about all of it. PROJECT HAIL MARY's Lord & Miller return to chat with Josh about Ryan, Rocky, the Spider-Verse and more! SUPPORT THE SHOW BY SUPPORTING OUR SPONSORS! Rula -- Rula patients typically pay $15 per session when using insurance. Connect with quality therapists and mental health experts who specialize in you at ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.rula.com/happy⁠⁠⁠⁠ #rulapod #sponsored NordVPN -- EXCLUSIVE NordVPN Deal ➼ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://nordvpn.com/hsc⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Try it risk-free now with a 30-day money-back guarantee! Saily -- 🌎 Get an exclusive 15% discount on your first Saily data plans! Use code HSC at checkout. Download Saily app or go to to ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://saily.com/hsc⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Limited Time Offer–Get Huel today with my exclusive offer of 15% OFF online with my code happy15 at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠http://huel.com/happy15.⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ New Customers Only. Thank you to Huel for partnering and supporting our show! Check out the ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Happy Sad Confused patreon here⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠! We've got discount codes to live events, merch, early access, exclusive episodes, video versions of the podcast, and more! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This episode is brought to you by FedEx. These days, the Power Move isn't having a big metallic credit card to drop on the check at a corporate lunch. The real Power Move is leveling up your business with FedEx intelligence, and accessing one of the biggest data networks powered by one of the biggest delivery networks. Level up your business with FedEx, the new Power Move. Have you guys ever entertained or been offered? a live action Spider-Man film? Yes.

Which one? Like the actual Spider-Man or one of those Sony spin-offs? You know. Okay. You know. Did you come close? Was it a serious consideration or did it just not? As you know, we love Spider-Man.

We're fans of the character and the world. Okay. We'll leave it. Yeah. Prepare your ears, humans. Happy, Sad, Confused begins. Hey, guys, it's Josh. Welcome to another edition of Happy, Sad, Confused.

Today on the show, the brilliant filmmakers that are Phil Lord and Chris Miller talking Project Hail Mary and so much more. Hey, guys, thanks as always for checking out the podcast on YouTube on Spotify. However you're enjoying it, I appreciate you guys. Project Hail Mary coverage continues on the podcast because I love this movie. And when you have an opportunity to talk to the likes of Ryan Gosling and Lord and Miller, you take it. So hopefully you guys enjoy.

The Ryan Gosling episode last week, if you haven't checked it out. What are you doing with your life? Check it out. And now we continue with Lord and Miller. They are the directors of Project Hail Mary. It is now in theaters. Check it out. If you haven't already, check it out again. I've seen it three times. I love this movie. Of course, based on Andy Weir's best-selling book, it is a sci-fi adventure, comedy, drama, thriller, all the things. Most importantly, it is a great cinematic experience. And I so enjoyed having Lord and Miller back on the pod, I believe it's their third time on. They're just kindred spirits. We're all men of a certain age, grew up on certain kinds of movies, talking about movies geeking out. Hopefully this will be like eavesdropping

on, yeah, just three, three dorky, dorky guys talking about Howard the Duck. Yeah, Howard the Duck comes up a lot in this conversation. I don't know. Before we get to Ward and Miller, though, a quick reminder, as always, patreon.com slash happy, say it confused. If you were a Patreon subscriber, you would have gotten early access to this. And Ryan Gosling to virtually every episode we do. You get bonus materials.

You get access to our live events. Stanley Tucci coming up in May. All sorts of fun stuff. Autograph merch, autographed posters, all sorts of cool things. Patreon.com slash happy, say it confused. Give it a shot. Why not?

Okay. Warden Miller. Ward and Miller. You know their resume. Do I really need to say, Cloudy with a chance of meatballs, 21 Jump Street, 22 Jump Street, the Spider-Verse movies. So much television they produced solo. That didn't come to pass, but they did direct a fair amount of solo.

And yeah, we talk a little solo in this conversation, too. Always easy to talk to these guys. They are fun to nerd out with. They had a lot to say about the difficult but beautiful production of Project Hail Mary. This was a big swing, a really difficult movie to make, but thank goodness they poured their blood, sweat, and tears into it because it really came out in the end. But we also talk lots of things about Jump Street, about Solo, about the Spider-Verse films, about their dalliance with a flash movie way back when, and a lot more. This is a fun, fun filmmaker geek out session. So I think you guys are going to enjoy this.

Again, check out Project Hail Mary in theaters now if you haven't already. No real spoilers in this, so don't worry about that. and enjoy my conversation with Phil Lord and Chris Miller. Hey, how's it going? Oh my gosh, I didn't see you guys there. I know, hey. How are you? Phil, Chris, this is definitely the first time we've had this conversation.

100% We definitely didn't have a few minutes of conversation and then say let's restart it. Never. We would never do such a thing. No. You were not super racist before we got it out. That's what stopped the time.

Exactly. And that's what stopped us before. That's so weird, but all right. All right. Congratulations. officially, Project Hail Mary. Look, we were at Comic-Con, that was a moment. I only saw like 20 minutes of footage.

For all I knew, the rest of it could have been crappy. How did we do? Did we fall off a cliff? No. You lived up to it. I was saying to you before, like this is a, you know, we're taping this right before it comes out. The reception is in, critics have weighed in,

everybody truly adores this movie. You can't ask for a better early reception. Who acts as the pessimist, who acts as the optimist in this relationship? Who brings... Too pessimists. That's true. There's...

Pessimist and even more pessimist, I would say, I'm the even more pessimist. In this case. Yes. I was going to say, generally, you guys have succeeded a lot in your career. You would think by now you're kind of... You take it... I take it hard.

Like, even the good reviews, there's one sentence that I can't. So I have mostly, the last couple of movies, my practice is I don't read anything. and I asked Chris, how are we doing in the streets? I'm like, we're doing, real. I've got my ear to the ground. I was like, listen, you know, I got my sources. And then I wait if someone sends like a great,

if something's really great, someone will send it to me. Then you can still find a sentence that's like, yeah, and I try, yeah, exactly. So there's clearly a history. There's a review that you still have in the back of your brain. Well, do you know that my lovely girlfriend Irene sent me a text like I just read the most incredible review and sent it to me and accidentally set the wrong one of this movie yes one of very few mean reviews and I had to go through the whole

thing because I was like well obviously this gets good at some point and it never did but anyway that was the one I got it out of I got it out of my sister oh my gosh yeah but no it's really like people are loving it. Like, they're walking out of the theater and, like, tweeting about it, and it's, like, fun to see them, like, really be overwhelmed. Right. The emotional connection that people are having with it is really the thing that's, like,

the most exciting about it. And I think, look, I mean, I've seen it twice. I'm going to see it again at your premiere. Like, it is the one of those things that, like, it is an emotional experience. It's like a ride. Like, it's, like, thrilling. It's emotional. It's, I know this is what you guys, I think, aspired to, like, one of those kind of movies that, like,

is, hopefully, going to be something for a generation. That's a repeatable movie. That's like, I mean, that's a high aspiration. Right. But we go into the movies, even, you know, if we're doing 22 Jump Street, we're going like, we're going to make, we want to make the funniest, craziest comedy of all time. Yeah.

We are always trying to be superlative with the stuff that we're doing. And this one was like, we knew from the beginning from the, from the source material that it was, it was a ride reading it was like, you're laughing, you're crying, you're crying, you're excited, you're at the end of your seat, you're like, what's going to happen? I stay up until 5 in the morning trying to finish this book. So I was like, what's going to happen to Rocky? And I was like, why do I care about a rock? And we wanted to take people on that type of thing.

When you have something that feels that special, you want to do it to excellence. Was there a challenge you didn't anticipate? Because there are a lot of obvious things that seem like this is, for a thousand reasons, going to be a challenge. What, looking back, surprised you about the process? The hardest thing. We didn't guess. Is it the glass?

I mean, the glass, the reflections, like, there's always a wall between Grace and Rocky, and you're like, oh, man. And, you know, we had puppeteers, and it was like the reflections of the puppeteers in the glass that we weren't anticipating. But that was, that wasn't. 90% of the budget is removing them from the glass.

It's quite a bit of lovely work done to make the glass look great. No, we actually, like the, we knew that Rocky was a challenge, but we knew that we had a plan to do it and do it. great. The zero G was hard, but we also had a plan to do it well. I would say the power supply for the rotating sun. Right. That was an unanticipated.

It was more... The amount of power you need... Yeah, so we had... You said this, you like shut down like a whole grid or something at some point? So we built a tunnel that was like the length of the largest stage at Shepperton. And because they had gravity for... from this centrifugal spinning. That meant that this translucent tunnel that we were in

had to be lit, but with like a rotating light, which meant that we had to build this array of lights 360 around this entire tunnel that took so much power that we had to build a bridge to the stage across the street and take wires to steal the power from that other stage just to shoot the scenes. That was more of a thing than we thought. They don't teach them in film school.

But I should do that's surprising, sneaky and hardest thing about this movie was the book has a lot of science that Grace does, and because it's narrated from inside of his brain, he can tell you what he's thinking, but for the first, like, third of this movie, he doesn't have anybody to talk to about it. So how do we show the audience what he's doing and make you understand and care about it without him narrating the thing? That was actually just like a writing challenge for Drew and like a cinematic challenge for us. Yeah, like choosing the plausible moments and I'm going to talk to Drew about this too of like when would he actually say something to himself that doesn't feel like a leap.

It's hard. Thank goodness we have a great, you know, lead actor who will not do anything fake. That feels false, right? So great that way. That's very helpful. No, no, no. I mean, his face obviously can tell you everything you need to know,

but he wasn't, you're like, you would bust you on it if you're like trying to get him to say something to himself out loud in a way that feels fake. And now I will put two CCs. So it just meant that we had to do it cinematically, which was like a really fun and interesting challenge. We built these experiments with advisors

and he does them all and he does them properly, and we just tried to make it look cool. You told me once that, like, I feel like every, I think you said every film of yours has had a disastrous test screening. We're like an early in the process. You're like, oh, God. Oh, we got that out of the way early. We never did it.

Like, our first official test screening went great, but we do a lot of, like, early screenings for friends and family and, like, other filmmakers and writers. And we, you know, this movie was massive. And when we finally got the assembly down to under four hours long, we subjected some filmmaker friends of ours to, like, a, three hour, 45 minute cut of the movie, which was embarrassing. And the, yeah.

So what was the major note besides, cut an hour? Yeah. I just think that you could just, you know, you just don't know how the scenes are gonna land with a lay audience. You know, for us, we thought everything was charming. But some of those charming things didn't land.

So really, it made it a lot, it made it really easy to get down to three hours. Right. And then we had to slowly, slowly work away down at two and a half hours. My sense is you are kind of like Edgar Wright's like a friend. Right. You're part of like kind of that group of, I'm sure you have a group of filmmakers. You trust, they trust you. So can you say who is in that group who is helpful for you and this process or has been?

I mean we had, we, many, many, many people. I don't want to leave anyone out, but. I'm trying to think who was in that first screening. It was Drew. Yeah, Drew Garves with us. It's nice not with screen, but it's also a film. Yeah, exactly. Exactly.

It was... Dave Callahan? Yep. Jason... Jeff Rowe. Yep. From Ninja Turtles and Mitchell's versus machines. Sure.

It was just like who will give us thoughtful advice. Jason Reitman was there. Jason came. Who gives thoughtful advice but like we'll understand what this is right now. You know, like they won't. They're not going to, they're going to understand that it's very long and they'll give us the right advice. It's interesting because like obviously we've worked so much anatomy. over the years. And the nature of that is a very iterative process. And this is a very

FX, you know, heavy film. And you can, I think you can only be so iterative. I mean, you can edit down, you can cut. Right. Oh, contrary, my friend. You can't build things. So, yeah, and then, so we shot this whole, most of this movie virtually before we got on stage. We, you know, on a motion capture stage that we built during prep, while we're building the sets, we have this, we're spending like every morning on this stage. Greg, Fraser, our cinematographer,

and he has like a virtual camera on his shoulder. And it was originally sort of like, let's make sure that the sets that we're building for the spaceship are the right dimensions. And if we need to do a move that we can like know where we need to cut a section of the ship and is the exterior of the ship, or what area of the ship do we need

build and all that type of stuff so we were just like but we gave us a chance to play around experiment in a way that was a lot easier than when you're like on a set with with everybody and it's really expensive so it was great having that like as like a little test kitchen to try a hundred different things and then we cut that together in little animatics and we were like okay this scene works and so we had a good feeling but then we'd show up on the day and then other new ideas would come you have to and you have to like plan plan plan, know exactly where the wires are going to go for the zero gravity, all of that stuff, but then be flexible to, like, adjust what a better idea comes along.

You have to plan to be flexible, right? And the sense of play has to, like, pervade the whole production. It means that, like, you've created a culture where, like, you know, Gary Props can pitch you an idea. I built this thing, and I was thinking, oh, great idea. And so that that way it never gets stale. A movie that gets planned for six months can get stee. So we're always just trying to figure out how can this movie have as much personality and spontaneity as possible? More happy, say, confused coming up. All right guys, let's talk about NordVPN. I've been using NordVPN thanks to a free one-year trial and honestly I could not be happier.

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You get VIP travel perks like airport lounge access, fast track services, priority support, advanced online security. So much more. Download the Saly app in your app store today. Use our code HSC at checkout to get 15% off your first purchase. Check it out. Well, it's interesting. I've talked to like so many filmmakers about the challenges of like space move. like including no less than like Danny Boyle famously oh yeah like sunshine like almost broke him right he said something to Dan Pemberton I think you said that yes every director wants to go to space and most of them never go back

would you go back do you understand what he's talking about I do but I but we would go back we yeah it was it was a challenge but it was a joy challenge like like Greg and and Paul Lambert's VFX supervisor like in the middle of after the first month of shooting came to us like kind of joyfully going like this is the most complicated movie we've ever worked on and we just finished making two Dune films and so and they were like just can you believe what we're doing can you believe what we're getting away with and it was like you know putting like right in a harness to be on wires for like day seven in a row is like you're like all right okay here we go you know I think the vomit comet wouldn't have been much fun to make this.

Yeah, it's called Wom Kama Kama for a reason. Yeah. And you only get on that thing. You get like 10 seconds. Yes. Do you match? Yeah. So it's hard to make the movie 10 seconds at a time.

30, I guess. And on a very small piece of set that you would be able to have. But we ended up using this thing called the spin ring that allowed him to like move his hips around and spin himself any which way he wanted to. So it wasn't just like gliding along like a high school Peter Pan production. And he's such. He's such a gifted in addition to being an actor with an insane range. He also is a great physical performer because he can do anything and he's super handsome, but

what? It's fine. It's fine. No, no jealousy. No, it's like, it's super fair. But he would allow him to improvise in the air, like doing air parkour and he would like, we'd set up this path and be like going from here to there, but you're bad at zero gravity. So whatever you would do, and then he'd sort of work out with the guys who are like pulling

him left and right on the wires, you'd try some stuff, and then he would kind of improv like being clumsy in zero gene. That's the kind of thing where you're like planning a lot, but giving a space for creativity and invention. Yeah, it doesn't seem fair that like the guy that can be literally the coolest guy on the planet in drive. Right. Can also like roll off a table like Will Ferrell.

Exactly. You're like, that's such command. The most remarkable is that he's willing to do that. That's half the battle up there. And that is what makes that guy special. It's like he sweats the details. He cares about everything. He wants it to be great.

And he's willing to throw his body on the floor. If it'll make it great, he wants to please the audience on some level. He wants to give them something. Okay, so we talked a little about Rocky. Let's talk a little more. Because I mean, this movie doesn't work without Rocky It's genuinely, hugely emotional relationship

to see Ryland and Rocky in this. And Rocky is a challenge for a thousand different reasons. Doesn't have a face. Yeah. E.T. had eyes. Yeah, exactly, yeah. Yes. There are a lot of Muppets without much of a face.

Okay. You mean like the Swedish chef just has the eyebrows or whatever, right? Yeah. But he does have a mouth. He does have a mouth. Most of the Muppets have mouths. And yeah, and noses. And Rokie has none of these things.

It's true. Do you go back and look at like E.T. and Empos? empire and like kind of figure out how they did what they did. Interestingly like our, so we first person we called was Neil Scanlan from the Creature Shop who like did all, you know, he helped make Yoda. Exactly. So, and a bit of a legend. And he was sort of saying like if you look at it, Yoda is like not that expressive of a puppet, but because Mark Hamill like believed Yoda was real and acted like he was real, then you the audience believed it. And Frank Oz had some.

something to do it. Frank Oz is pretty great, for sure. But that was partially like we knew that the secret weapon was going to be Ryan and Ryan believing in it, Ryan caring so that we care. But because we had our partnership with Neil and his team that we built this puppet and we designed it, it took us a year to get him into shape and get him right and put all this detail on his body and these carvings that had history and culture and things that we like, that made sense to us, but we never explained to the audience.

And then we had casting, we did auditions and chemistry reads with a bunch of puppeteers. And James Ortiz just blew everyone away. And his dynamic with Ryan, even in the chemistry read, was like, oh, there it is. That's Rocky and Ryland. And so we knew we had a scene partner. And we were able to shoot

everything with James on set, with the puppet team and the rocketeers, the five people it takes to operate that thing. And we kind of tried to shoot as much in order as we could because, you know, at the beginning, you know, they still were trying to figure each other out. But then, as it went on, they were bonding because they were the only ones that were talking to each other. Right. And they would, you know, go back and forth, improvise so many spontaneous moments that wouldn't have happened if he was just talking to a tennis ball on the stick. Was he always going to also be voiced by James? No, that was not.

We were just sort of like, it was like a parlor game like who's going to, who would we get? Yeah, it feels like it never really land on anything where we were like, that's obviously the answer. And then ultimately it just, everybody fell in love with James. We started testing the movie and they were like, who's that voice? It's so good. Right. And also the idea that were we going to bring somebody into just copy what James already

did and the thing that we actually captured on the day. It seemed crazy. Like, he was rocky. Right. I mean, the last secret ingredient is a frame store that did the animation that complimented the work that the puppet team did. It ended up being about 50-50. And there are shots back to back where, like, no one can tell which shot is animated, which

shot is puppet, because they mimicked the puppetry so perfectly that it was seamless. There's also like a real benefit that James is a story. is to the audience is a stranger. Right. You know that you're not going on. Oh, it's Danny Davido. Oh, there he is. Tom Hanks again.

Yeah. You know, I don't, yeah. I don't know if you'd feel the same way about him. Totally. Harder to get the music rights, Harry's Stiles or John Williams' close encounters. Like, what's the... Close Encounters?

I literally, it was so little drama about it that I had to ask on the mix stage. Like, we've cleared this, right? Right. I expected to get so many phone calls. It was a pitch that Stephen's Billberg pitched to us right before we left for London. He was like, we were talking to him about the movie. He was like, so the alien speaks in song or like, yeah, he's like, you should have him

do the close encounters theme. Wouldn't that be funny? And we're like, well, if you said it, if you said it, then I'm calling that a green light. Viral contracts are binding. I think I said to him in the meeting. So anyway, yeah, so that was, so that was really easy. And sign of the times, the thing about it is we had to clear it in 24 hours. Right. So this was not in the script. Yeah, no. And as you well know, this is one of the emotional high points of the film. It's incredible and it's, it's embarrassing that it wasn't something that was initially designed to the movie. But it came out so great. And one of the reasons is that Sondra was like, I'll sing, but I get to pick the song. Right. Right. So the serendipity,

it's not serendipity, because she's a great artist with a great brain and she's a great filmmaker, so she picked a great song. But I can't take any credit for it. Right. We were just like, when she said it was going to be the song, we're like, oh, that could be expensive. We're like, maybe we should think of a backup in case we can't clear that. But then we had her go do it because we were on this ship that we were shooting on and shooting in a real officer's bar on a real naval ship. And it was our last day there. And so we were like, you know, we got to do it before the sun goes down.

And she came in and we shot the reaction shots first. And nobody knew what she was going to do. That's crazy. And you can see everyone's job. on the floor because they're like, oh my God. Yeah. And like the poignancy of the thing. And like after that, before we even turned around to shoot her side,

we're like, well, we're not going to do a backup. That's for sure. That's in the movie. It doesn't matter what it is. That's amazing. Can you take credit for having directed Merrill Streep technically now? We, yeah. Technically.

It's pretty suss. But yes, yes, of course. Put her on the resume? Listen, if she wants to put us on her resume, that's just fine. A voice note she sends over? When you get the headshot of Meryl Streep on the back at us all the directors, she's worked with it. We rejected Rocky Voice with her number one claim to make.

I guess let her in. I guess let her do it. She, uh, the funny part was she was like, could you give me a line read? And I was like, I'm not going to give Merrill Streep a line read. She asked us twice. Yeah, they're like, how about you? Would you do the line read?

Which one of you is more of an actor? Like, oh, neither one of us is going to do that. No, zero. That's like when the devil asks you. Yeah, right. You know, like just too, yeah, what's the big deal? So, it's like a test of you. It was God testing us.

You're like, and we passed. All right. So some more general stuff, since we have the luxury of some time here, I took the liberty of looking at your IMDB and under trivia, it lists your favorite films. And they include Wizard of Oz 2001, Harold and Mod, Star Wars, and then these, Popeye, Speed Racer, and Howard the Duck. Those are all my fault. I'm going to throw a few more on there, too.

Now, for the record, I just went on Brett Goldstein's podcast talking about Howard the Duck and my love for that. So I support you. We're not alone. Leah Thompson is attracted to The Duck. Yeah. That's in the story. That was in the screenplay. Yeah.

That's how good of an actor she is. It's a very confusing scene. That's why she's a national treasure. Yeah, I love that movie. I've seen it 50 times. I taped it off of HBO as a kid. I also had the Robert Altman Popeye taped off of HBO on a translucent blue VHS with like the best guy. The first two minutes like, you know, yeah, missing.

Like, oh, I was obsessed with Popeye as a kid and then I loved the movie. You know the famous story of the shooting of Popeye. That it's made of cocaine. Yeah, they shot it in Malta and everyone was on Coke. By the way, that set is still up in Malta. Oh, my gosh. That's very cool, the very cool like waterfront set. Anyway, the movie is crazy.

It's got the craziest, like, live-action cartoon gags where, like, they turned, they made, like, a circle version of... Oh, yeah. ...of Robin Williams. He's got the big arms. Like, they nailed so many things. And then did not nail so many others. And I don't know.

I would say it informed my aesthetic and that I enjoy things that are... feel a little wrong. And then Speed Racer has been, I was like, it's been reclaimed. No, I think when it came out, it was, it was Pan,

but people like came around realizing that was like a Skittles kaleidoscope of like rainbow insanity into your eye balls. It's just the most punk rock swing to follow up the Matrix with that movie. I was like,

these folks are the best. Also, frankly, I'm not accusing them, but it also feels like a film that was done on Coke. So that's the, that's the, and I don't think it was. I think that's just the, that's what they're, they're on, a vibe that is like, we're going to, you think we're going to do this, we're going to do the opposite, and we're going to always try to freak you out every movie that we make.

And I love that. Fun fact about that movie, we're making cloudy with a chance of meatballs. Yep. And going crazy. Right. And we're on, and all of our internet is on, is on the Sony ImageWorks, uh, intranet. So, and they would have a little window in the upper left corner of the whatever frame was being rendered at that exact moment in the server farm that was like on the fifth floor before it was all in on like a cloud. And so we were, we would be like rewriting at one in the morning and I'd be like, Chris, let's see what they're up to.

And these little postage stamps of that movie would keep us going. Just John Goodman, like. Just like seeing whatever cool, wild stuff they were up to. I'd be like, all right, the Wichaski's, like, challenge accepted. We'll be right back with more Happy, Sad, Confused. One Plus 1 equals more of the greatest stories. Hulu on Disney Plus. Stories about our survivors.

Watch Tusks. The most dangerous planet. Family. Retribution. Murder. Prophecy. Fear and propane. Bobby Miller.

Blake Pantha. The ultimate soldier. The best of the best stories now with even more from Hulu. Amazing. Have it all with 3-1 Disney Plus. When WestJat first took flight in 1996, the vibes were a bit different. People thought denim on denim was peak fashion, inline skates were everywhere, and two out of three women rocked, the Rachel.

While those things stayed in the 90s, one thing that hasn't is that fuzzy feeling you get when WestJet welcomes you on board. Here's to West Jetting since 96. Travel back in time with us. and actually travel with us at westjet.com slash 30 years. In the wake of 21 and 22 Jump Street, were you asked to reboot and reinvent every like 80s and 90s? I will say there was a time and the time is not fully over yet

where people are like, here's a bad idea for a movie. Here's a weird product that you like. Connect for. Yeah. Yeah. You're like, yeah. Like you can't even, it's like this isn't one, but like Velveeta shells and cheese. You know the magnet guy.

mustache magnet thing from the airport. Right. That, we have that. Right. Yes, we got a lot of... After the Lego movie and the Jump Streets, it was sort of like, oh, these guys will turn a bad idea

into a good movie. I know you went down the the greatest American hero route on TV. I dispute that being a bad idea. No, that's a good idea. It was a favorite show growing. And that was going to be with Rick Fummeau,

and he had a great take. Yeah. He was that it was... I want to make it about a garbage man in Englewood. Against the backdrop of the gentrifying Englewood so it's about this garbage man and everything around it is starting to look really nice and he's the one guy who's left out it was a brilliant take that time still can come I really hope it does but no no no no no night rider no riptide no scarecrow Mrs. King no mannimal was pitched that's right that's right I knew I went for a long ago yeah yeah you could play a game where we go yes no were you pitched this yes I've so many reasons of thank you one of them is I remember this

sitting 22 Jump Street set, that was the first time I met Dakota Johnson. Oh, yeah. She was... She took off. She's all right. She's doing all right. But I, you guys clearly knew. I knew on set, too.

Like, I met her. I'm like, okay. She's going places. She's a movie star. Yeah, she popped. Obviously. And she's really funny. Yeah.

And that's the thing that I like seeing from her in stuff, that there's a, like, there's a slyness of like, I'm not sure what this person thinks of me. Right. Totally. She thinks I'm a dork. pretty sure. She doesn't want to outright say it. And there's a, anyway, she's got amazing, she's amazingly talented person. I fired up for what's next. We've talked years ago about the famous Men in Black Jump Street crossover that never happened.

Were all of them on board? It was Jonah Channing. Was it also Will and Tommy Lee? Were they in this? No, they don't know. They were, they were, as it was in the script, they were some very small parts. I see. That was more of like, I hope. cross your fingers, maybe they'll do it. Right. Tommy Lee Jones, that would have been interesting conversation to get there. Indeed. I mean, I love that guy.

Fun fact, I went to college with my Uncle Carter. There you go. There it is. There you go. We had an in. We got an in. That's it.

Tommy Lee. Every time Uncle Carter comes in. That's right. Yeah. Are you involved at all in Jump Street now in terms of there were so many different iterations ideas for new Jump Street movies? Is that still crossing your desk at all?

Every now and again, you know, someone from the gang is like, what about this version? Should we re-get this thing going? There's a bunch of different versions that were all like, had something special about them, but, you know, it was hard to get, hard to get it. It's hard to have everyone in the same city, in the same time.

Available at the same time, you know? And like, Jonah's like directing movies and like, Chan just like won the Oscars. He was so funny. Oh my God, just another one. He's got the best comic timing on the plan. By the way, I really liked Roofman. I thought it was a delight.

Your favorite subject, we always love talking about solo. I'm joking. Don't worry. We always love talking about it. Can't get me to stop. One thing I will say. So Alden right now, he's doing a play here in New York. I'm going to see it very soon.

He's a great theater guy. He does a lot of great. He's a brilliant man. He bought his building in eastern Los Angeles. It's like a playhouse and it's super cool. And he like puts on like stuff. He's a creative soul. Do you know?

I don't know if you feel comfortable saying this, but we know a lot of the actors that were up for that role. Like, was there a close second? Was there, like, was Logan Berman, Jack Rayner? Like, who was, like, really? I don't know. Named names. They were definitely close seconds,

and we loved all the people who tested. They were all great, you know. And it wasn't, it was, you know, it was, God bless them for submitting themselves to that process. Yeah. But, and I'm just, you know. We did get to meet a lot of really talented actors. It's true.

It feels like every young actor of like that age came in. It's true. For both Han and Lando, we like met everybody. It was, but it's like the encouraging thing is like there's so many talented people who had so much specificity in like who they, how they present. And it's really fun to watch folks now like lead movies that you go like, yeah, I saw that. You had that thing for sure. At this point, would you consider doing a Star Wars movie or the emotional wounds too deep at this point? I wouldn't say the emotional wounds are too deep.

It's just that like we're, you know, at this precise moment, we're releasing a movie in theaters that's like original. Right. And one of the things that's on, you know, one of the opportunities that presents itself when you're not, you know, on the hook for making like three Han Solo sequels, you know, is that you, we have the opportunity to create. the franchises of the future. Right.

Or like, or, you know, just an original movie that delivers the way, you know, the movies we grew up with delivered. So you're announcing the Project Hail Mary sequel today. Yes, no. Absolutely not. But just, but like we're on a mission to try to,

like, always to try to find the most original thing we can get out there. Have you ever had the Tom Cruise meeting? Has Tom come calling? Fun fact, we have not, well, we've met. We've met a handful of times. He was on a motorcycle. The first time.

The first time I met him, and I was like, and after five seconds, I was like, I will do anything to ask. You like, I swooped in by, like, the magnetism or something, is a magic power. He was just at Randy's doughnuts, and he just, like, who screwed by? We were on the studio lot, like, in a scene right out of Peewee's Big Adventure. Right. He, like, parks the motorcycle. He's like, oh, he's in like a ducati, like, jacket and a helmet, take down the helmet, and it's like, Tom Cruise. He was like, hey, how's it going?

We're like, oh, hey, how are you? That's how you say it. In my mind, he rode the motors, a ducati up the steps of the Thalberg building, and into the lobby. Yeah. Through the kicks down, down, and flipped off on the bike. No, and then stuck his hand out, gave me the firmest handshake of my life. No, it totally tracks. I got a chance that I hosted the Top Gun Maverick premiere.

He arrived on a hel. In a helicopter. Of course he did. On an aircraft carrier. Of course he did. He walked over to me. Yeah. And then, were you on an aircraft carrier?

Yeah. Jerry. Yeah. Incredible. But then Gosling just told me. The USS Abraham Lincoln. Maybe. I can't remember.

Yeah. Told me a very similar story on the set of Star Wars. He arrived in a helicopter on set, just out of nowhere. I mean, that's what he does. That's what he does. He just rolls in and jet packed up. Let's be honest. At that his level of fame, he cannot be riding in a commercial helicopter.

It's got to be a charter. Yeah. No, he did that at the Olympics. Yeah. Yeah. Listen. Do you know the famous story about the Pearl Harbor premiere? No, tell me.

Which party took place on an aircraft carrier? Rings a bell. Okay. This was told to us by an anonymous sound mixer. Sound mixer. Who said that they were, There's a scene in that movie where there's an elevator that takes the planes up to the tarmac

from underneath from the hull of the ship. And they were listening to it and Michael said more passionately than I'm going to say now. He's like, you guys have no fucking idea what an aircraft carrier sounds like. Have any of you been an aircraft carrier? No, no, no, no, no. Well, it doesn't sound like that.

The elevator sounds like, Dres, Brock! Sphincter rattles. Your entire body, you think it's going to fall apart. So they fix it up and they, and it sounds like real macho, and he's like, that's what it sounds like, on a goddamn air.

Anyway, this is a famous story. The premiere? Yeah, the party after the screening of the premiere is on the aircraft carrier. And the way you load it on, you ride the elevator up to the tarmac. And so the whole sound team gets on and pushes the button. And Michael Bay just laughs. You guys should be more Michael Bay, I shaltz.

I want more. I should say, I want to clarify, his, we share an editor of Michael Bay, who speaks very highly of him, and he's a very loyal. and talent, a great filmmaker. I don't want to suggest that he's like screaming. No, no, no. He did yell at me once to get out of a shot on the set of Transformers. I'm sure you got, I'm sure you hustled. I did. It felt like a badge of honor.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. Let's talk Spider-Verse. Sadly, you guys have set the bar extremely high for herself. Yes. How are we feeling about the third one? We're feeling good. You guys should never have announced release dates, by the way. Oh, yeah. That was enough to us.

Every studio loves to announce early state. Yes. I don't know why. It was up to us who would never. If we have to us, we would never do such a thing. But we are still on schedule for next June. It's going great. Literally we had our, we set up our editorial for this movie in the same building as Spider-Verse

so that we could like have mornings over there and then edit all day on this film. And like the day we finished this movie on the color, the next day we were back in the offices. And so we'll be living there for the next year. but it's going really well. The story's coming along great. The animation is beautiful. We've ported some interesting stuff over from Hail Mary to there. That digital pre-shoot that we did with Greg,

we're doing that methodology for the camera work with DP Alice Brooks, and she's been doing an amazing job, and it's been just sort of revolutionizing how how we can get the camera work to be super inventive and super natural feeling and it's been awesome. And from an emotional perspective because again, you know, the films feel kinetic

and unlike anything, but it's really about Miles in his family. That's why it works. Exactly. Yeah, all the zipping flying around doesn't mean anything to the audience without the scenes of just two people in rooms talking. So how emotionally, is this going to wreck me? This is the most emotional of the three movies. And the thing that, like, Miles' superpower is that family.

And that's like the franchise's superpower. They are indestructible in front of the audience. And so we wanted to make the final movie of these three about that. It is the final movie of the three. So, like, I mean, is there, I mean, the end of the trilogy? Yeah, it's the end of the trilogy. But, like, obviously, you have other things that have been in development, have been announced at different stages.

Is there still, like, a female-led kind of like Spider-Gwen movie, a Spider-Punk movie? Like, are those movies movie? All these things are, you know. Nothing's dead. Right. I think they're in the air, but. No, no, those things are moving.

Yeah. Yeah. But this, like, the Miles trilogy is, you know, this is, like, the last of this Spider-verse stories. Do you feel confident like one or one or more of those things that have been announced or not going to announce or are gonna come to fruition in terms of the animated space?

I mean, they stay, there's a lot of interest. They have good auspices and there's a lot of interest. One would think. Yeah, and there's very talented people, you know, that will be a part of it. How's Spider-Noir, I'm very excited for. It's a delight. Have you seen anybody yet?

I haven't seen anything. It's a treat. It's fun. It's like a, you know, a slightly separate sort of universe from the Spider-verse movies, but it is, but Nick, he had this great idea, which is I want to play him like a spider pretending to be a person. Right. And he does, like, that's why he's so brilliant.

It's so Nick Cage. And then Oren who, like, you know, show ran the thing, had this, like, he's so passionate about noir and like not just that the aesthetic trappings of noir but actual understanding the way that noir stories are told and he like has such a love for the genre that and every director that came in was like oh my god i get to play with all the stuff i've always wanted to do and have it be a way to be artistically expressive while doing like a crazy nicholas cage superhero art film it's like It's nuts. I love it.

Have you guys ever entertained or been offered a live-action Spider-Man film? Yes. Which one? Like the actual Spider-Man or one of those Sony spin-offs? You know. Okay. You know. Did you come close?

Was it a serious consideration or did it just not? As you know, we love Spider-Man. We're fans of the character and the world. Okay. We'll leave it in. Yeah. In the future, are you spidered out? Do you feel like a live-action Spider-Man at some point could be of interest?

I mean, let's just get that. Let's just get this thing. Josh, I just need to... No, but I mean like... We've got a whole Spider-Verse to finish. I got you. You know, we're halfway through this thing. I would say, I would long to have the headspace available to think of yet another one of those darn things.

Way back when, on the D.C. side of things. How close did Flash come to happening? Did you have a full script? Was that just a story treatment? We had a very elaborate treatment that we really liked. Pretty different than what ended up. Can you say what your take on Flash was? I mean, I kind of want to.

It's a good idea that I am afraid to not be able to use some of time. That's all. That's what I would say. James Gunn says, hey, guys, I know you have so much time for example. As you know, we were just talking about telling original stories. I know, I know. But you were obviously passionate about that one. Yeah, listen.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, we get intrigued by things that are intriguing. Okay. Okay. Here's a quote. I love, you know, we love the movie that, you know, the musketi's made. Yeah. Okay, we're going to end with this.

Sometimes I do the profoundly random questions, but for you guys, I'm going to do the movie matrix questionnaire. Okay. Okay. Because you guys have good taste. All right. I'm a nice. Can I have to engage my core for this? Buckle up.

Get ready. Are you an alien or aliens person? Ooh. I'm an aliens person personally. I like them. They're both great for different reasons. We looked at Alien a lot with Greg, our cinematographer, about like... The photography.

The photography in it because it was really like natural and like messy and lived in. But only one of those movies has Vasquez. Vasquez. That's right. I know that I've seen that movie more and more times in the theater, aliens, than I have seen Alien. I saw it, you know, you went with Edgar. Did you go to that in London? I think I missed that one.

But is that the one that, did you ever see the one with the added scene with, with like, with the kind of the volume, proto volume, like video wall? No. Gag in it? No. Anyway. So too. It's pretty solid.

and just like set up some payoffs in that movie. I'll tell you what's like really smart about that movie. Like I'm the first person to say it. Yeah. And like, like, shockingly. Little known film. But like I think that like Cameron is known as like a like a technical virtuoso, right? Yeah.

Like made started as a model maker and like he can do every job on set. But like the emotional stakes of these movies are so clear and so like visceral, right? like it's like it starts with Ripley waking up and realizes like a lot of her life has passed and then she like meets a little girl who's lost her family and she has a chance to make one of her own and that's like amazing

he's also the master of like exposition of like laying down like the payoff in the third act right like he set up like the robot suits just like casually at the beginning and then oh guess what here it comes he's a fucking smart he's very good Hot-take, James screenwriter. He knows a thing of two.

Best comic book movie of all time. You can exclude your own. Spider-Man 2? It would be my first guess. I also liked... Spider-Man 2. Spider-Man 2. I think you have to say.

Yeah. I think I do... I have a lot of cheeky answers. I thought Mangold's was good, really good. Guys, this is staring us right in the face. Howard the Duck. Howard the Duck. You're better than that.

Come now. You know, the Dickton are Superman. And it's kind of like, as a thought, and when you think of them also as like a one-two, like movie with a several-year intermission and a bonus Richard Lester footage. Like I do have a real soft spot for those pictures. That's James Bond movie of all time?

Hmm. It's like how, but measured by what? Yeah, exactly. You know? Measureed by, um, what? Okay. Yeah. So you can go with Dr.

No as, you know, like the thing that's set up everything. And is, I watched it somewhat recently and it holds up pretty darn well, I have to say. Um, you could say, um, I guess casino royale. That's the, that's the first Daniel Craig one. Right. People either go casino or Skyfall. I go casino.

Yeah, I think casino or a, because just sort of introduced him as like a new version of Bond and it had like the intensity of it was like was pretty great. There's one shot in that movie where he's like on a balcony or something

and he's assessing a threat and his eyes move around like he's a velociraptor. And I was like, oh, this is the smartest fucking move I've ever seen. scene. He's the most, like, perfect suit, got the watch, like,

shaken, not stirred, and when the shit goes down, he's an animal. And I was like, you guys, very smart. Amy Pascal ran the studio, and Hannah McGill, very instrumental. A couple more, scariest movie of all time. Scariest movie of all time. That's tricky. The basic, but real one for me is Exorcist. I mean, but you can't go wrong with it. Like, when I was a kid, the one that gave me nightmares with

poltergeist but I watched it again I wouldn't put it as the scariest one about that but it was scary for me at the time um I have like the recent ones I'm trying to think of like if I've like a feeling of terror like there's like I would say that uh like hereditary barbarian those were both like stuck with me for a while afterwards like and more like disturbing and and less like jump scary well I'll say this just this is what the data prove. I went to see the others. That's the Spanish filmmaker with Nicole

Kinman. I liked that movie a lot. And I went and I went what I thought was a date. But the person she brought another guy. Oh my. So it was the three of us.

What? She brought a plus one to the date. Oh no. And so I wound up sitting next to the guy. Amazing. Why you really got even, you didn't even get on the other side. And then there was some scare in the movie that made me go, Ha! And grab his forearm.

That's a side of story. So to me, that's the scariest thing we've ever seen. That's so funny. It's horrifying. Funniest movie ever made. Ooh, that's unfair. That's unfair. That's unfair.

The first two-thirds of the jerk. Okay. Okay. Oh, yeah. I'd say the jerk is definitely. It's up there. For me, personally, like, the movie that I was like, I can't believe I've never laughed harder.

But I'm trying to think of this. Yeah, I think the jerk. That's it. That made me lose control. Yeah. You know. When he called the dog, shithead.

Right. All I need is this paddle game scene. The line that still cracks me up and if I get it right is about... Because I always get him mixed up. A cup of pizza place? This is from the old... This is from the old cup of pizza place.

Yeah, this is from the old pizza and a cup place. I can't remember which one that he's... The idea that there are two competing cup of pizza places. Bernard Peter's playing a... And that he likes the one that's not around anymore. It's like... Not that Ryan needed more credit with me, but we were geeking out about our mutual love the real genius.

Oh, love real genius. Yes, well, we spent a lot of time thinking about that for this movie. It was like, how can Ryan, handsome man play a genius scientist? We're like, oh wait, foul. The handsomest man ever. The handsomest man ever, he did it. And what's a way that, like, a playful, impish way

that Ryan can bring to this, you know? So yeah, we talked a lot about that. finally most importantly what's your go-to movie theater snack what do you recommend folks nerds gummy clusters nerds gummy clusters has has like we've frugged all of the other ones the technology I love what is the noise red vines yeah but nerds go because it's relatively recent in the in the candy sphere but taking off it's an innovation yeah what is it it's I know a nerd I know it's nerds we all grew up with nerds okay and guess what no more plastic box I mean a cardboard box right

That just gets wetter and wetter as you... So basically it's like a little gummy nugget with a bunch of different nerds all around it. Yes. So it's... The crazy thing is that long-distance runners use it instead of that gel packs to like give them a carboload, they can keep a couple nerds gummy clutters in their pocket

and pop them while they're running to keep going. What if you are not running a marathon? See, this is the thing when you're like... This is the thing. Sometimes watching a movie is like a marathon. Chris told me this. And it just gave me a permission structure to eat as many of these damn things as, it's my favorite food.

Get on board. I was going to say, congrats on being angel investors and nerds. It's my statement. Please, please buy, please buy. Here's the other thing. We're always asking ourselves, what should I have? Nerds or gummies? Why not have both?

Why not have, yeah, this solves that problem for you. Yeah, I don't know. I can't. If I see, if they enter my field of vision, I can't not eat it. As a matter of fact, when we started the press tour for this at our junket, the publicist got wind of it and brought two giant family-sized bags. Of nerds giving me clusters. It's so upsetting that there is a family-sized bag.

I pity the family. Yeah. Gosh, you're going to go into a diabetic coma right after. It's brute. Yeah, it's good. Yeah. Well, we promoted not only Project Hail Mary, but... Nerds Gummy Clusters.

Put it in the long line of stuff that we've promoted in our movies with nothing, nothing in return. Cool Ranch Doritos. This tour has mostly been about Nerds Gummy Clusters. There's Sour Skittles in this movie, Project. Sour Skittles. They never said to anything. We're like the reverse Robin Hood. We give money to companies.

in exchange for nothing. Massive corporations. And don't forget, Howard the Duck is probably on Roku or time or something. Yes, I did, by the way, see, we got to go to the Lucasfilm archives as part of our Star Wars adventure. And I made a B-line for the Howard the Duck section.

You were the only person that ever was like, they have a duty decimal. They went out, go through the card catalog. And then to go and see the Howard the Duck that's, that's rotting with one robot eye come out and just moths have torn his skin apart. It's pretty good. It was pretty good.

Anyway, there you go. Congratulations, guys. What better place to add. Project Hill Mary. You know what his problem was? Didn't need enough nerds gumming clutches. There you go, I guess. Would have kept him alive.

Before his time. Congratulations in the film, guys. Good to see you both. What informative interview. I'm so sorry, John. You asked us properly incisive questions. And beginning, and then we went off the rest. And then we just started, and then, I don't know why.

You got some good ones. I think so. You got some good. You know what an aircraft carrier, elevator sounds like, finally? Listen. We all need a nap on. We'll see you at the next. See you at the premiere tomorrow.

Oh my God, I'm excited. Oh, my God, I'm excited. And so ends another edition of Happy, Sad, Confused. Remember to review, rate, and subscribe to this show on iTunes or wherever you get your podcast. I'm a big podcast person. I'm Daisy Ridley and I definitely wasn't pressure to do this by Josh. This spring performance auto group invites drivers to upgrade with confidence. From March 26 to 28th, the spring upgrade sales event offers a thousand dollar upgrade credit toward any new or pre-owned vehicle. Plus trade evaluations across their network

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