Happy Sad Confused - Rebecca Ferguson, Vol. II

Episode Date: March 16, 2026

Rebecca Ferguson always makes an impression -- whether it's on the big screen in MISSION: IMPOSSIBLE,, on the small screen in SILO, or in interviews like this! Rebecca joins Josh to talk about leaving MISSION, joining PEAK BLINDERS, and why she called out a misbehaving co-star. SUPPORT THE SHOW BY SUPPORTING OUR SPONSORS! Rula -- Rula patients typically pay $15 per session when using insurance. Connect with quality therapists and mental health experts who specialize in you at ⁠⁠https://www.rula.com/happy⁠⁠ #rulapod #sponsored NordVPN -- EXCLUSIVE NordVPN Deal ➼ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://nordvpn.com/hsc⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Try it risk-free now with a 30-day money-back guarantee! Saily -- 🌎 Get an exclusive 15% discount on your first Saily data plans! Use code HSC at checkout. Download Saily app or go to to ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://saily.com/hsc⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Limited Time Offer–Get Huel today with my exclusive offer of 15% OFF online with my code happy15 at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠http://huel.com/happy15.⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ New Customers Only. Thank you to Huel for partnering and supporting our show! Check out the ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Happy Sad Confused patreon here⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠! We've got discount codes to live events, merch, early access, exclusive episodes, video versions of the podcast, and more! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Did Ethan and Elsa ever sleep together? No. Okay, I'm just checking. You would know? Absolutely not. No. I saw them more as, I don't, it sounds incestuous to say, siblings, because there was clear moments of infatuation.

But again, I didn't direct it. I can offer up ideas or I can question why she would look longingly at Ethan in a gondola, but if you're a director wants something, then that's what your director gets. And they added it together, and you're stuck with that outcome. Prepare your ears, humans. Happy, sad, confused begins. Hey, guys, it's Josh. Welcome to another edition of Happy, Sad, Confused.

Today on the pod, Rebecca Ferguson is back. It's been way too long. One of my favorite actors on the planet. So charming, so fun. We're talking Peaky Blinders, Mission Impossible, Silo, and so much more. Thanks, as always, for checking out the podcast, enjoying us on Spotify or YouTube, however you're doing it. I appreciate you guys.

Remember to hit that subscribe button if you haven't already spread the good word of what we do around here. And as always, remember to check out our Patreon. Patreon.com slash happy, say I'm confused. If you like what I do over here, there's even more over there in terms of bonus content, early access. We announce guests. We let you ask questions of guests from time to time. And we've got merch and live announcements, live guest announcements, all sorts of fun stuff. Patreon.com slash happy, sad, confused.

So yes, busy time around here in the happy sad-confused world, as always. Teasing some stuff coming up before we get to Rebecca today. We got some Project Hail Mary stuff coming up. You've probably heard the buzz for this one. It is as great as has been talked about. I've seen this one twice already. Really special piece of work from Ward and Miller, starring Ryan Gosling. Some of those folks, maybe all.

of those folks might be on the podcast very, very soon. So stay tuned. Some really cool Project Hail Mary stuff, only unhappy, sad, confused. But that's not what we're talking about today. Today we are talking about the unicorn that is Rebecca Ferguson. We all fell in love with her, I think, Verda Say, really on Mission Impossible. Most people really came to know her then as Ilsa Faust, that iconic character. She made it her own. She somehow kind of stole Rogue Nation out from under the brilliant Tom Cruise, all due respect to Tom. But like Ilsa just made, elevated that film. And since then she's been killing it, whether it's in Dr. Sleep, the Dune films, and now co-starring in Peaky Blinders, The Immortal Man. This is a great film, by the way. If you

haven't watched Peaky Blinders, first of all, what have you been doing? Great show. Fantastic work from Killian Murphy and that entire ensemble from Steve. even night. And now this feature film, and they really have made a feature of film. This is not like a glorified two-part episode of the show. I will say, I was really impressed. Not that I was surprised because Peeky Blinders has always been very cinematic even in its television work. But this one looks and sounds great. It's got a great ensemble and it adds in Rebecca and Barry Keogh to the mix, Tim Roth. I couldn't recommend it highly enough. I've really enjoyed this one. I got a chance to moderate a Q&A with the entire cast, including Killian. And then, yeah, on the heels of that,

got a chance to sit down with Rebecca for this. She plays kind of a long-lost connection to Tommy in this. I don't want to reveal too much. She plays a gypsy who has kind of a very, I don't know, a familial connection to Tommy. You'll see. Anyway, that film is going to be on Netflix this Friday, I believe. It's in theaters right now. Check it out. Peeky Blinders, The Immortal Man. But we cover so much more in this conversation, as we always do in Happy, Say, Confused. Of course, we talk a lot about Mission Impossible and spoiler alert, the death of Ilsa Faust, and Rebecca now has a little distance from it, so I would definitely want to talk to her about her perspective on that.

I know the fans had a lot of thoughts on how Ilsa went out, and certainly you can tell Rebecca has some thoughts too. We talk a little bit about Silo, two more seasons coming up of that. Her work on Dune, she clearly loves working with Deniseville. of a little hint of how much we're going to see of her in Dune Part 3. And also some conversation about that infamous conversation we had a couple years ago where she kind of outed a bad behaving actor on a certain set. She's never named the actor, and she's not going to name it today, but got some really

interesting insight into why she went out of her way to discuss that bad behavior on set and why it was important to her. So Rebecca is always a delight. I'm such a fan of her. Like I said, she's kind of a unicorn. There's something very specific and unique about her in the best possible way, and I love chatting with her, and it had been a while

since we had the deep dive. So I know you guys are going to enjoy this. I certainly did, without any further ado. Here is me and Rebecca Ferguson. Ready for this? Are you ready? Never. Not for you.

Not for you. Are you ready? Thank you for the interview. Oh yeah, yeah. Speed dating, jump at style. No, it's good to see you. How you've been? That's basically what junkets are. Have you done it?

Have you done it? No, but it looked like it. No. Yeah, that was our version of that. Holy moly. It's been a long time. Welcome back to the podcast. Thank you.

Second time. Second time, as I told you, you're Killian's double-ed-ed-you. I know, but he has more movies coming out. He's pretty press shy too. I take that as a badge of honor. Does he get a hat next time? He does he get a hat? It's very, very stylish.

And he would wear it? Would he? Would he? I don't know. Fashionable as the cap from picky blinders. I want to go with that outfit. Are you a podcast listener? No.

You don't listen to any podcasts? No. Okay, so Rebecca at the gym, she's going for a run. What are you listening to? I'm a weirdo that listens to podcasts. So I don't run. I don't go to the gym. No.

I try. And when I listen, I've listened to a couple. But you asked in general, my friends and makeup artists sort of on silo, they all listen to podcasts and always crying ones. Right. And I've listened to some, and they are great.

And I did use one to go for a walk. I started going on more walks because I wanted to listen to them. But I think my life has been so busy that when I jump in the car at 5 in the morning... Silence? Silence. And then there's just, you know, 500 people around you. But then you're in your own thoughts, and I don't know about you. My brain is a dangerous place to live inside.

People is never silent around me. There's just constant conversations, cast crew members, and filming, non-men. and filming non-stop. Leave her alone. Just give her some space people. And the idea of jumping in a car and then putting a podcast in my ear. Fair enough.

No. How would you say you are as a promotional... And actually, to get back to it. Then, do you know what I find really hard is when I want a podcast? I don't know which one to search for. Start with Happy, Say, Confused. You can start here.

700 episodes, 12 years. We got a lot for you. Here we go. How would you rank yourself as a promoter of film and TV? Because it strikes me, you've worked with the best. Like the top, like, you know, Tom, Jain, Hugh, these are like Crem de Lacron, they know how to promote movies.

Yeah, Emily Blunt. Emily Blunt. Merrill Streep. How would you say you are as a promoter? I think if I start analyzing myself, I'm going to turn out to become really crappy. I don't over-analyze. I don't overthink. I don't plan. I don't rehearse. This is why you're the best.

I don't know if that's good or not. It's good. I think I sometimes walk out going, did I say? They're two extremes. You want either like the really polished person. Yeah. That's just like spot on. They give you exactly what you want.

They get little tide lights. Yeah. He's incredible. He's incredible. And then you want the wild card. I like the wild card. You got it. You have no idea what's going to happen.

By the way, self-serving, I got the cruise cake. I'm on the cruise cake list finally. Oh, you got the cake? I made it. Rebecca. I didn't know journalists or podcast makers got cake. I've hosted two of his premiere. the two of his premieres, I felt like I was, I was due.

Oh, that's great. Well done. It was honestly one of the top three professional moments of my life. And I like the little glittery thing that comes with it. Do you know what I did? So I had been talking about it publicly during interviews for years. Trying to get it. Trying to manifest it. When I got it, I didn't believe it because I thought someone was fucking with me.

I thought like Simon Peg is like sending me. Love from Tom Cruise. I called the bakery. You did? I called the bakery to corroborate. Oh, that's hilarious. You know, there was a year when I didn't get the cake and we were on set and I said am I just off the list then has something

happened and he was like I'm sorry I said am I off the list and he went called his assistant and went can you check is Rebecca on the list and then I got it again this is what I live in fear of us like I had 10 seconds of joy and then I was like what if I don't get on it next year and he also he's an over feeder right he feeds people just generally yeah that cake is like small but dense it packs a wall oh you get the small one okay oh okay right cool good I was I'm just hoping for some hierarchy here. Let's talk about Peaky Blinders.

Yeah. This movie is excellent. It's fantastic. You're pretty self-critical, generally speaking. Fair to say? Of yourself or your films or what? Yeah, I think, no, not the films. I think some films, yes.

You've made perfection after perfection. They're all aces. No, no, they really aren't. But I think it is, when you get too comfortable maybe, and again, it comes back to that whole self-analogy, if you start sort of overthinking what you're doing. And I can watch it. I cringe.

I look at it and I think, oh, God, that was a bad choice. But I like looking what we've done together. Like seeing the team together. I love going to the premieres with the other actors and the filmmakers. Has the Silo experience helped that being such a, I mean, you're an executive producer. You're so part of the creative process too. Can you divorce yourself a little bit more from the performance aspect and just sort of appreciate the whole? No, I don't think that I don't know what it is to have a producer cap on yet.

I have things that I'm producing within my company, which hasn't yet taken off. And that is a lot. It's a lot of work. I've sometimes questioned if I want to do it, because it takes a lot of effort to build and a lot of different opinions and where the script goes and where do we want it to go. But I think on silo, the main thing for me, and I've talked about this a lot, is how, we feel when we come to work. Yeah, creating that environment.

And that is everything for me, to be able to feel free to create and feel safe and to have fun and I felt that actually was Peakey. I'm not producing it. I'm just dipping my toe in it. So it's interesting looking at the choices you've made, because some of them, you're front and center, you're a co-lead, you're a lead, and then there are these films, you know, there's Dune, there's this, where you're kind of like dipping in and out these really cool character pieces.

And something, I guess, like analogous to mission, like, you know, you are kind of coming into something that already exists. You kind of know what it is going to be. There's a security in that, I would imagine. Which isn't always good. It's not always good. No, not always. I mean, if there is an alchemy and there is something

of frequency that's already set. There's less creativity. There's less like ability. Yeah, so the question is, what are you? What is the new setting for the new character in an already set environment? And that's challenging and fun. You've sort of, there's been all these obstacles

that these main characters have had to climb and conquer. Yep. And now you are one. Sort of who are you within this setting of characters that all the audiences know about? Right, because you want to blend in seamlessly yet also stand out and fuck with the whole environment.

It's a dance, yes. So, okay, so for this one, Killian is the gold standard. Every actor wants to work with Killian. And that's the reason ultimately to really do this, to get to mix it up with Killian. Yeah, for me it was. And then I found out Barry was in it.

And that blew my socks off. Because, no, no. He's such an exciting actor. He's, I think he's one of the top actors that we have. Agreed. And being in a film with him, and actually Tim as well. And I'm not just saying it. It was, and Graham, you know, Stephen Graham,

it's like such an incredible ensemble. I didn't get to be on the receiving end of everyone, obviously. But the dynamic with Barry, it was so different than the dynamic with Killian. I was going to say, so I'm thinking those two in particular, because like, Barry to me, is a like, He's, there's something unpredictable. He sizzles, yeah.

There's something always that draws you in, but is a little bit dangerous. And Killian is just a charisma machine. Those eyes like bring you in and there's just like this like certitude, this solid nature. It feels like a guy that's really come into his own. He's always been great for 20 years. He's been amazing. But it feels like now he's at this level. Not 21. I would say 20. Yeah, I agree.

Yeah. So for you. What did he do 21 years? I don't know. Nothing. 28 days. Please, that's like 25 actually. No one I'm thinking about it.

I'm bad with math. So, wait, did you know Killian go just like as a casual, as a friend? No, we had the same agent. So Adam Scheidze is our agent. And it was sort of a running joke because I kept saying to Adam, when am I going to be in a film with him? Like, what is he doing next? You know, I'll be a teapot.

You know, I felt like a stalker after a while. You'd be a good teapot. Anything. I can be chip. And then one day he called and said, And I have Killian's number, here it is, he wanted to talk to. So does he present you with a script, the role? Like, how fully formed is it when that happens?

I remember I was in Greece. You know, it's funny how you remember. I remember exactly where I sat. I remember the phone call. I remember them saying them, it was Zoom as well with Stephen Knight, Tom, and Killian, where they sort of presented it. I must have received the script beforehand. Okay. And I read it.

And it was great. It was an incredibly well-written script. And then I had some thoughts and ideas and questions, and I asked to have a Zoom, and I was terrified. Because these guys know each other. And they're confident in the script, and they're comfortable, and I'm going to break in and be like, guys, I have a couple of little small things I'd like. But they were so, you know, not a mean, but they were just so collaborative.

And I thought, this is great. I want to be in this. I want to be in this environment. You didn't want to do the accent. That was your prerequisite. We'll be right back with more Happy Say I Confused. All right, guys, let's talk about NordVPN. I've been using NordVPN thanks to a free one-year trial,

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as soon as you have to do an accent. Obviously, my accent is so weird because I'm born in Sweden. Yeah, I don't know, I mean, I know where you're from, but to hear you speak, I don't understand what this is. But it's sort of, it's old school English. So my mom was brought up in Norfolk and she went a couple of private schools, got expelled from private schools, she was a rebel. And then when she was 20 something, she moved to Sweden. And then she met my dad. So I have this sort of mixed otherworldly, non-existing sort of Swedish intonation.

to a very sort of old school RP accent. Yes. Which I guess it's just mine. But what I feel with accents is as soon as you have to do an accent, it can get very claustrophobic. Right. Because ad-libbing and making things up, if you don't have the history of an accent,

like when we do American, which is still can sound Irish if you're not American, there's a possessive, there's a forwardness. It's a new country. They want to be seen and they want to be, want to be heard and they emphasize words and self-pronouns, me, I, you, whilst in England, you don't have to because they conquered the world. There's another arc to the rhythm.

So when you ad lib and just want to go off beat and off script, it has to be so in your DNA and it's another layer to the acting. Do you have a, have you played American much in your career? I'm trying to think now. I'm doing silo. Silo does. And that kind of works the way that we do it, and I'm quite free in it, because we We've lived 250 years, 300 years underground.

Right. And there would have been so many different people and different sort of... Right. So we get away with it. Yeah. But you do have one of these voices, these accents, whatever it is, this amalgamation you described. It's like I put it in the Christoph Waltz category. It's like I can...

It's so, it's a mesmerizing. You have a gift. Like, don't fuck with it. Like use that. That's a real asset. Yeah. But it does. The intonation of the English, because it was my mom's way, they had to do R.P.,

it sounds posh. So, you know, it's oddly, you're stuck in a category, you know. It's not sort of the working class sound, but I'm classless because I'm not English. Right. You know? So it's tricky. I'm not really free to move, and yet I just move however I want. It's interesting.

This role in particular, so this is a woman, a gypsy who, and this is kind of like your witchy era, I feel like. Between Rose of the Hat going back a few years to Lady Jessica, this woman, you're dabbling in the occult, the dark arts. What's going on? Are you manifesting something? Is the universe looking for you? No, and I'm kind of sick and tired of the roles. I don't love playing witches. I don't love films with witchcraft and animated characters. So I know it's weird that I've done them,

but I think on a whole, I was excited to find the truth within her character. What was her agenda? Her belief is something else, and I can live with that. And it's a heritage throughout the entire Peakey story. You want to do Peakey? There's Romani and there's gypsies. Of course, it's part of it. That's juxtaposition of the violence of the peekie.

And the supernatural and the spiritual and the sort of fortune telling. And it was truth and that's what it was. So you can't not lean into it. But I kind of leaned out of it and let. So you're exiting your occult era. You're ready to be a little more grounded. You don't need to. Yeah, but again, they're all very different.

Sure, of course. They're all very different, but I mean, I'm not seeking them out. Are you superstitious generally? Do you believe in, do you have mantras, things before you go on sets? No. No. But when I have fears for certain things, I don't like other things happening if I'm going to do something.

Like for example, I don't love flying. But if someone says something about it or someone starts knocking on a plane, I get very uncomfortable when their superstition starts coming into my world. Right. Someone has to touch a plane before they go on and I think, well, I'm clearly going to die now. Like, you clearly, I mean, we're going down. We're doomed. You just did this for all of us.

It's like, I'm not going to go and erase it, but I think, really, mate, just be. Just stop that. Hide your neuroses. Don't wear them on your sleeve. I do feel like you're a secret neurotic. Because you present as confident, as just like, I mean, I trust you, I believe in you, but, The elevator thing's real? That's a real thing.

Yeah. Have you sought, like, hypnosis, anything to? I have done hypnotherapy. I'm willing of trying to. I did this thing for someone. I don't know where he was, LA, maybe. And he could somehow tap into me through the phone. So it's a session started with him kind of saying,

are you okay for me to enter you? Never a good start. I remember like, on the bed. Maybe. Going, mate, I'm willing to do anything right now. And he said, I'm just going to tap into you. And I'm going to release the locks. Yeah.

And I was like, dude, I am open to do anything here. Whatever works. Didn't work. And I maybe wasn't open. I don't know. I don't know how spiritual I am in that sense. But I think claustrophobia is a lot of control. Yeah.

And release of control and just accepting the lack of control. And I just, I hate it. I want an exit. I want to be able to get out. Well, you're not at least on the extreme, you're not on the Billy Bob Thornton level. Well, what does he do? Oh, he's afraid famously of a lot of things,

but antique furniture, for instance, very specific. Wow. I know. Antique, not vintage, so he has a certain era. It needs to be a certain age. He doesn't sit at it, he doesn't. He doesn't want it around, but it's Billy Bob. I mean, you would expect nothing less.

I think it wasn't Woody Allen famously, wouldn't drive under bridges and viaducts or something? So he had to go over. You imagine mapping that route out going to set. I wouldn't say much because this elevator thing is a real impactful thing. That is so true. So Quentin Tarantino says, hey, Rebecca,

I've got the final film, you're my star. By the way, it takes place in an elevator. It's a thriller. It goes, great, have you built the set? And do you have an exit? Let's shoot. We had to do that with the ornithopter, which we called the hornythrobber.

Right. On door. Who called it the horny? The horny throbber. Who called it the hornythrobber? I think we all had just sex names for anything. Sure. Because that's what happens.

That's what you do on a set. That's what you do on a set. There's nothing else to do me. Feels like a Broan idea. Feels like Broan started it. Can I have been broken actually? But it was a metal door that shut through a button. Yeah.

And I just don't trust mechanics. Yeah. And I don't trust metal things going into metal things. Because if it doesn't work, it's, stuck inside and we were inside and said don't worry I've got the button I went where the fuck are you and he went I'm outside and I was like well what if what if the button breaks and he's like well we've got mechanics we can drill you out right I don't want to rely on being drilled out of something feel the whole

set so we had the ornithopter and the whole one side was black felt yeah so I could just walk out you've ruined doing for me now every time I'm gonna watch I'm gonna there's the hornythropter I know my yeah my space suit the the fremonds suit the still suit yeah They all had buckles and being, mine was Velcro, so I could just go, shh. That was yours only, was the custom Velcro version? It's good to be you. I don't know.

I mean, to be honest, it's rough. It's quite hindering in the world. It's fun, but it's also... Fun to talk about it in a podcast, but it meant day-to-day. You said close the door, I've already checked that the windows go, yeah. I'm sorry, I set you off, I triggered you. It's okay, we're all right. Yeah. Are we though?

Okay, so you kind of manifested this. You were a casual Peakey fan, a big Killian fan. Yeah. Can we manifest anything else? Is there a TV show, a film franchise that just as a fan would be nice to get that phone call? I mean, yes. I mean, I am inspired and in awe watching what Jesse Buckley is doing right now. Yeah.

And there's nothing of me saying, I'd like to take it away. It's more looking and going, there is phenomenal filmmakers out there, and there are possibilities. out there and something I'd love to get into. I guess it's the drama. You know, I hate the word character-driven, because it's such a bland, boring comment. Well, you would hope everything is character-driven.

Exactly. That's like the base one. It's like you play powerful women, you know, or... I play a woman. And hopefully there's power and weakness and all of it. But I think for me it's maybe the sort of the two-hander. It's the stillness. It's everyday.

I'd love to get into that. into that, the dark, gritty feelings that we don't express. Yeah. And just to tether into them and feel them and strain them and pull them and cut them, that's what I wanna do. Does Rebecca Ferguson still have to audition? Are those days behind you? You shouldn't have to audition, I'm gonna say it out loud.

I don't audition, no. I remember when there was a moment, when it was like you've been offered this and I thought, is that happening now? But we still do sometimes, You know, generals, when you just want to, it's for the director to feel you. Denny and I did it for June. Yeah.

Denny called and he wanted to have a meeting. And I think he wanted to feel me out. Yeah, as a human. Yeah. And how we would work together. You know, it's not all about what's going to be displayed in front of camera. It's how are you going to receive me and my ideas. And equally to me, you know, it's not always a one-way streak.

Right. Because you're spending months and months and months and months, and it's not just the role, it is the lifestyle. Yeah, and looking back now, two films later, I regret it. I shouldn't have done it. It's three films, isn't it? Didn't you do three of them? Yeah, it hasn't come out yet. Are co-stars now afraid to fuck around on set with you since your infamous comments a couple years back?

You outed a celebrity without saying that, saying who it was. That's probably a nice byproduct. It's like, fuck around and find out Rebecca Ferguson is going to watch it. I think my intention going into that podcast, he was great. And I wasn't, again, thinking that I was doing something. I think the conversation we had was about what have you learned through your years of filming. And sort of working with other people. And the memory came up and it was nothing preempted.

And I don't want to out anyone. And I know it becomes interesting and exciting and everyone goes down the street. But I could care, fuck all for people to find out. The whole journey was, why is it so hard sometimes in environments to speak up? Why is it that some people, whether it is insecurities, get the autonomy to be dicks or whatever they are, what gives them the right? But then I take the responsibility in my own hands and say, why do I give them the right? Right. And that's maturity.

And that is also in hierarchical settings, you know, people talk about number ones and call sheets, et cetera, but it's a really difficult balance. And I think it's in any job, you know, it doesn't matter which one it is. There will always be people where you feel lesser than, and they make you feel lesser than.

And it's who has the power, whether it's on a set or anything. Yeah. And to be able to go, oh, from the moment you've walked in, I don't feel safe. Right. And what's happening is this dynamic now is making me feel that I can't be my best.

Right. And I'm only doing everything to please you because you're so unstable for me. And that is not me blaming the other person. That is me going, how do I gain that power back? And I can still find that hard. So I don't know if people are scared. I think everyone is so different,

and I would never want everyone across the board to be just generally nice people that, no. I like creative crazy. Yeah. But. There's a difference between creative discussion, argument, even arguments at the time. Yeah. And creating an environment that closes you, closes others off.

And I would like people in the beginning of their career to know that you have a voice and you have a right. But it's hard when you don't have the backup of other people once you voice it. So have you put a clause in the will 75 years from now, this person shall be named upon my death? No. No. I'm not eager to run towards a script where they might be, but everyone changes. And also to that, even me. So who knows what that would be like now.

We'll be right back with more Happy Said Confused. Oh, please, not that music. That music gives me nightmares from my childhood. Could we get something a little bit lighter? Some lighter music here. Are you a fan of True Crime TV shows? And what about Unsolved Mysteries, the show that jumped started all of our love of true crime? I'm Ellen Marsh

And I'm Joey Taranto And we host I Think Not A True Crime comedy podcast covering some of the wildest stories from your favorite true crime campy TV shows All the way to Unself Mysteries Baby, you will laugh, you will cry

You'll think about true crime in a whole new way And you'll also ask yourself Who gave these people mics? New episodes of I Think Not are released every Wednesday With bonus episodes Out every Thursday on Patreon

And every Monday You can listen to our True Crime run down where we go over the top true crime headlines of the week. So come and join us wherever you listen to your podcast. Hi, this is Rob Benedict. And I am Richard Spate. We were both on a little show you might know called Supernatural. It had a pretty good run, 15 seasons, 327 episodes.

And though we have seen, of course, every episode many times, we figured, hey, now that we're wrapped, let's watch it all again. And we can't do that alone. So we're inviting the cast and crew that made the show along for the ride. We've got writers, producers, composers, directors, and we'll, of course, have some actors on as well, including some certain guys that played some certain pretty iconic brothers. It was kind of a little bit of a left field choice in the best way possible.

The note from Kripke was, he's great, we love him, but we're looking for like a really intelligent Dukovney type. With 15 seasons to explore, it's going to be the road trip of, several lifetimes, so please join us and subscribe to Supernatural then and now. So backtracking a bit. I've heard you talk about, like, growing up, like, this wasn't the goal. You were kind of a bit of a late bloomer in kind of like discovering this as a passion. Is that fair to say?

Yeah, yeah. It kind of came to me. Like, what were you like as a teenager? Were you kind of just seeking, like, who you were? I mean, I got my first role when I was 15. So I was young. You were thrust into it or through happenstance. And the casting process probably happened late 14, going into 15.

Yeah. But I went to a very good music school in Sweden. Our choir sang at the Nobel dinners, and it was a really, really prestigious good school. Yeah. And the expectation of our school, the grades we were much, took longer for us to get higher grades. So if you left the school and went to another one, all of your grades went up one bump. So a lot of people did that, leaving very smart of them. stupid people like myself stayed and got mediocre grades but I think I was always

quite I had a very eccentric mother and a father who was sort of very much of a swede comfortable sort of lawyer yeah and I was in the two different worlds yes and chameleon through a divorce and I think I wanted to just be normal and whatever that was I didn't know but I didn't want to stand out This is not unique to you. Any young person, generally speaking, at least for a phase of their life, it's like just, I don't want to. I just don't want.

And yet the eagerness, there was the eccentricness kind of came out, but once it came and people watched you, I would blush and I didn't know what to do with it. So I was very lost finding myself as a kid, because I also didn't really have that freedom and the safe space to find it. You know, divorces are hard. And I love my dad, I love my mom. We have a great relationship. But growing up, if you don't have your shit sort of when you're divorced,

it usually Hans goes on to the kid. Well, luckily, you found your voice with Ocean Avenue. That's where you really came into your own. For those that don't know, and I know you talked about this. For those that don't know, let's go into it, are we? A Swedish American soap opera. Megan Fox was in that. I know.

A Swedish American soap opera filmed in Miami Beach. You, Megan Fox. I think there are 130 hours that you guys made of this? Yeah, and I think they aired two episodes, and then they canceled it. I don't even. I don't even. There needs to be a documentary about this.

I mean, there should be, and thank God there isn't. But it was a funny one. The creators, I think, had made Dawson's Creek, which is so weird because I met Joshua. Sure. Today for the first time. And I was weirdly awestruck and a bit of starstruck. You were colleagues before.

You were basically working in the same field. Well, not really. So I think they said this is going to become like a Dawson's Creek. And I was like, that's amazing. But it turned into pre-bad soap opera to like one of those really bad porn films. Right. You know, bad lighting, bad writing. Yeah.

Without the fun sex stuff. But none of it. I mean, absolutely none. But I was 17. Oh, my God. And I lived on Miami Beach. And it was a hoot. You know, it's one of those moments that you don't, you don't regret.

So did you overlap with Megan? Did you know Megan Fox at the time? No, I mean, we were different circles and I think I was a bit older, she was younger, she was in another crew, I was with the Swedes, and she wasn't Megan Fox, you know. We also had one of the singers from Pussycat Dolls, like there's a weird ensemble. This needs to be rebooted. It's time to do a sequel. Absolutely not. But we had really famous stage actors from Sweden in the show, yeah. It's a job. Yeah, it's a job.

Also a job, how about this as a segue. Mission Impossible, we've talked many times about this one. Which one? It's okay. Okay. Did you ever find out who the actor was that they were going to cast? Nope. Did you?

No, I'm sure. Oh, I thought you did. I was thinking. Oh, one of us. No. I'm sorry. How did you, did you watch Final Reckoning? Did you ever see it?

The last one? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Did you? Of course. about Ilsa's passing and Dead Reckoning part one. Can we have a little bit of a post-mortem on that? Yeah, I think she was so brilliantly written and it was so well executed. And I think there's just sort of that much you can do with a character until she starts feeling like a team player.

Right. And I think we had these conversations, me and Chris and Tom and And my contract was a three-picture deal, you know, so you can renegotiate to move on, or you can sit down and go, I'm not sure there is enough room. You know, it's Ethan. It's his story. And there's a lot of other people in, you know, we have incredible Vanessa Kirby, Haley Apwell, Palm Clementeuf. Yeah. So I think a hard exit is a cooler ending than kind of lukewarmly diluting into a team.

Right. Because she was always supposed to be unpredictable. She was always supposed to be an equal and was to Ethan. Did you, were you happy enough with the actual, that exit, was chosen in terms of the death scene and that sequence? I don't write it. Okay. Okay. What did you make of the fan response of like, everybody was like, she's coming back, she's not really dead?

No. And you didn't want to, you know, raid on their parade, but you knew the truth. Yeah. Was that odd to kind of, like, be on the outside looking in? And it must be lovely to see the fans that just had such a connection with that character. Yeah, and it's sad because she was so well executed. Chris, Chris wrote an incredible character. And it was also so much fun to be a part of.

Like, it was such an extreme, I will never experience anything like it. What comes with traveling and the training and the camaraderie and it's just, it's phenomenal. And I think there's nothing more to be said. There was an ending. It needed to happen, you know. There are different versions to how it happens and why it happens. And I think people were sad because she was so well executed, you know, and it's a big risk to kill someone off like that. Did Ethan and Elsa ever sleep together?

No. Okay, I'm just checking. You would know. Absolutely not. No. I saw them more as, I don't, it sounds incestuous to say, siblings because there was clear moments of infactuary. But again, I didn't direct it. You know, I can offer up ideas or I can question why she would look longingly at Ethan in a gondola.

But if you're a director wants something, then that's what your director gets. And they added it together and you're stuck with that outcome. But what I loved about her was the unpredictability and her strength. Yes. One scene I do want to mention before moving on, because it's an all-time run. It's in your first appearance in your first appearance in the end. appearance in the series. Rogue Nation, the Opera House sequence.

It's an all-timer. It is a perfect marriage of editing, music, action, suspense. Yeah, it's phenomenal. Do you remember the first time you saw it all put together? I mean, does that, is that, do you have, hold that in the high estimation that everybody else was? Mission, you only get to see, many films you do, you get pre-screenings. Right. But you're there, the premiere with us.

Mission, you see on the first day with the audience at the premiere. Yeah. It was a huge screen that they set up in the opera house. Yeah. Was it an IMAX? I think they set up there. All I remember is it started about two and a half hours later and I was hungry, but I was still happy. Tom does, you know, Tom does everybody.

He did a wardrobe change in the middle of that carpet. Did he? Yes, he disappeared for half an hour. We're all going, Tom, mate. I get, I appreciate it and I love it. He will rock in going, what are we waiting for? And I go, you, always you, when he burst out laughing. He's like, okay, come on.

But the point is that when you saw that, you saw what McHugh had done and you were impressed by that sequence. It was great. Yeah. It's a good sequence. It's amazing. All right. So you touched a little bit on Dune. I'm always astounded by folks like Deney, no one they talk about like this too, of like these folks that work at the biggest scale possible and are yet very actor friendly seemingly by all accounts. How is he accomplishing that on set?

Can you pinpoint for me a little bit what he does? There's no one like Deney. is actually Tom, Tom Harper, Vicky, he also has, there's a genuine kindness. And it's a very fine balance to be able to maintain generosity, a softness. He leans back, he listens, but he has authority. You have enormous respect for him. If you're going to come in with an idea, come with it. He might take it, he might not.

He might walk away halfway through your sentence because he's thinking and you stand there. And sometimes he comes back, we laugh so much. It's so, Danny, he goes, wait two seconds. And he goes, and he goes, and he goes, I was thinking about it. But he comes back two hours later and he goes, okay, you process. But he's just intelligent, creative. He's a master. And he works with people that he makes better and they make him better.

It's a symbiosis. And there are far and few in between. Can you compare and contrast your experience on the third part? I mean, by all accounts, you could not have been in the third part. I just sit my toe in. I have literally no, I have no sort of comments on it. The script is great. I've read it.

I think it's going to be fantastic. But my journey was number one and two. I don't even think she was supposed to be in three. Exactly. That's what I'm saying. And then he was like, I need to have one scene. Okay. And I get one scene.

Okay. But that was a weird feeling. walking onto a set that you know so well and knowing that you don't have a part of it. It's sort of, there's a lot of fomo. Yeah. And the acceptance of this is just what it is. Right, serving the story at the end of the day.

Yeah, just serve. So you read the entire script, though. It's not one of those things where you get your three pages. Oh, no, no, but I always read an entire script. I would never go into anything blind. Yeah, you could be burned that way. I would imagine. No, why would I?

We do it for the film, for the viewing of it. Where is Dr. Sleep in your rankings? Rose is such a special character. He's a good one, isn't she? Yeah. Delicious to play, an enjoyable one to play, despite. Animated, over the top. Yeah, good wardrobe.

Quirky. Good hat, good hat, barefoot. Yeah. And I love, we worked the guy called Terry Notary, who's, do you know? Movement, yeah, yeah, yeah. He did many of the apes and planets. He's unbelievable. If you haven't watched on YouTube, there's a moment where he goes through four.

different monkeys in his body movement using crutches for the gorilla. Right. I'm so good. But we talked about this animalistic group of people who suck steam. We didn't go far enough into it, I wish we had, but nearly like cockroaches and creatures and how they crawl on top. It became more sensual and sexual. But I think what we were trying to do is more animalistic, but it's hard to move a whole group.

Are you interested in, have you done performance capture? Have you done that? No. Is that intrigue at all? No. No. What performance art? Performance, well, performance capture.

Meaning like the ape thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I thought you meant like Marina Abramovich. That too. You'd be amazing. Get in a museum and just stand there for 12 days. Wow. Wow.

Who knows? No, but performance capture, the avatar, the apes thing. I did. I've done, when I played Morgana Laf Magana in The Kid Who'd Be King. Oh, yes. I got to have the onesie and the dots, and I had a huge long fishing pole with a tennis ball hanging on it.

The dream of the actor. Yeah. But did you find that? Jump around. Absolutely. I felt ridiculous. And I loved it. You've said,

but you've never done theater. Does that not intrigue you? It does. I've never done it. It's come to me a couple of times. I'm sure. But I've either been too busy filming or it's been something too grand.

I remember John Hertz saying to me when we worked on Hercules, he said, And if you ever get roles, or if you get a role to be on stage, you work yourselves from the smaller theaters up to the big. You never start big. Right. And I had an offer once to go on to one of the big stages or theaters, and I heard his

voice, mantra in my head, and I thought, no, it's just a no. Stop asking me, it's just a no. He's one of those that's come up. Gary Oldman talks about him a lot. Like he was like, kind of his mentor. Isn't Gary incredible? He gave me a hug once and I nearly, my legs nearly just, gave away.

I'm gonna tear up thinking about all my conversations with him. He's the best. He's phenomenal. He's so bloody earthy. And yet also still has like all the anxieties and self, you know, like he doesn't think he's the most brilliant actor. Yeah. Which is so endearing.

I don't trust the actors that think they're God's gift. No, and you shouldn't. Have you ever met any of those? Yeah. Have you? I'm sure probably the actor you're not talking about is one of them. No. No.

No. Okay. I think a lot of bad behavior comes from insecurity. True. And I think people who are secure, I don't really know what. I haven't really met an actor who walks on the stage. Yeah.

Completely full of themselves and woe is me. Right, right. No, I just, I trust the ones that doubt. Yeah. And also curious, curiosity is so important. It keeps you sharp too, if you think you're, you know, the next job could go one of two ways. No, and so Kili said, you're only as good as your next job.

That's all you have, you know? Okay, so you finished silo. We have three and four coming up the next couple years. Where's your head at? I mean, would you do another series right now? Do you need a different kind of experience? I am treading very carefully with my choices right now. Yeah.

I do not want to lock myself into a long show. With that said, I had this conversation with Killian. And I was like, would you ever do another limited or a show? And he was like, for me, it's not the format. It is just down to the writing. If the writing is there, other things can be acceptable. Right. And I've always read scripts and kind of gone, yeah, there's a story here.

I like the story. The writing isn't great. The dialogue isn't great, but we can work on that. And now I'm at a stage where I go, zero tolerance for bad dialogue writing. And it's so unique to get something where you feel it come to life, you know. And do you know just from experience that even with the best of intentions, like, yeah, we're going to work on it. It's never going to get there. It's so hard, though, isn't it? You know, I was talking to someone about TV shows, and I was like, well, I wonder what Succession was like. You know, I think Succession was amazing and so well written. And I thought, oh, I'll read the first episode. So I read it. And I was like, it's, obviously the acting is sublime. But the writing was there.

It just, it just exudes out of the script. Yes. So I feel like I'm at a point where I can hold out and not have to jump into anything. I'm not in between two seasons of silo and wanting to do something else just to get, fill the gap right now. You've earned a... I can just stay a bit cool and see what comes. Well, it's kind of like where Killian was coming off of Oppenheimer. He didn't jump into like five things.

I love that he went back to his close collaborators. He did Steve. I believe he did. Although I did say to him, if you are doing the Bone Temple too, I fuck I want to be, that's phenomenal. Oh my God. I know. He was like there's nothing for you.

No. No, he did for that. It could be a zombie. You could just run around. Yeah, exactly. Again, a bloody teacup. Okay, we're going to end with this. Happy, sad, confused, profoundly random questions for you.

Don't kill your career like Jesse Buckley did. Dogs or cats? I wish I could say dogs, but I have cats. No apologies. Good. What do you collect? What I collect? Yeah, do you collect anything?

Stolen items from set. That's just called being a thief. That's just... Oh, just boring a long term. Are you ever going to return? Liberate? No much, maybe. I do collect. I have so much stuff from films. One of my favorite ones is a skull from Hercules.

And it is so good the skull, and it's got the teeth and the hair. And my daughter. when she was five, had show and tell at school. And I was like, I know what, you could do the skull. And being my daughter, she was like, that's amazing. She walked in with a little Sainsbury's plastic bag, and apparently was told to put it straight back in because she was creating a very uneasy environment for the other children.

Yeah, you got a phone call from the school. I'm glad the Rebecca Ferguson vibes are being passed on to that. Probably the Ferguson kid. Rio video gamer, the favorite video game of all time? Mario, any form of Mario, Mario Kant, and Crash Bandicoot. I am simple and old school. Perfect. The Dakota Johnson Memorial question, she asked me this.

Would you rather have a mouthful of B's or one B in your butt? A mouthful of P's or a P in my butt? Not P, B, I'm sorry, it's not that easy. B. A B in my mouth or one B in my butt? Ooh! Both. Okay, that's a new one.

New Territory. Sorry, I thought we are supposed to enjoy it, right? Yeah. What's the wallpaper on your phone, Rebecca? I have a picture of my... My son and myself. It's a Polaroid picture. Sweet.

What's the worst noted director has ever given you? Uh, what is my agenda? Think about your cash, you're getting paid. Which wasn't much, by the way. Is this the same infamous set? No, different experience. No, different experience. Okay, last thing for you.

In the spirit of happy, say, and fuse. An actor who always makes you. happy. Oh, Steve's on. Great, love it. Movie that makes you sad. What was the last thing that, adolescence was the last thing I watched that really made me sad. I can't watch Hamlet.

Sirat. Oh, amazing. Amazing, but also heavy. Yeah. And a food that makes you confused. You don't get it. Oh, that's such a good question. fries on a pizza.

Yeah, why? They're both grade on their own. Or sausage in the pizza dough. In the pizza dough. So where you hold, then in America, they put sausage. So once you're done with a pizza, you turn it and you've got a fucking hot dog. Don't blame this is not an American. This is not like all of Americans are doing this.

All the Americans do this across the board. We have a lot of bad things. Daylight saving and sausage in the pizza crust. Pizza Hut has been doing this for decades, just inserting things into the crust. It's appalling. Oh, minimalism. Peeky Blinders, the immortal man. Yeah.

It's fantastic. Everybody should check it out. They should. And if they know what's good for them. And we're going to talk, Sighu, I'm sure, later this year, next year. Yeah, let's do it. ...to discuss. Thanks for doing this.

Thank you. Thank you for doing this. That's the next film. Not yet. That is a Killian joke. Yeah, I heard you said he's a dad joke guy. He's a dad joke guy. Who would have thought it?

Not me. It was confusing once it happened. Are your mom joke? Are there mom jokes? Well, in a sexist world, there should be. In a sex, equal sex, yes. Right. There should be.

Both good. I don't know. We don't really say mom jokes, do we? No, I've never heard it. What would that be? That's just jokes. There you go. Yeah.

Good to see you. And so ends another edition of happy, sad, confused. Remember to review, rate, and subscribe to this show on iTunes, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm a big podcast person. I'm Daisy Ridley. I definitely wasn't pressure to do this by Josh. From the parents behind law and order comes a mystery the whole family can enjoy. Patrick Pickle Bottom Everyday Mysteries.

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