Happy Sad Confused - Robert Richardson

Episode Date: July 30, 2019

It's a moment long overdue on "Happy Sad Confused" as Josh welcomes the first cinematographer to the show! It's better late than never though as Josh chats with legendary DP Robert Richardson about his unique collaborations with Oliver Stone, Martin Scorsese, and Quentin Tarantino. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Take off the mask with BetterHelp. Visit BetterHelp.com today to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelpH-H-E-L-P.com. Prepare your ears, humans. Happy, sad, confused begins now. Today on Happy, Sad, Confused, cinematographer Robert Richardson on his collaborations with Martin Scorsese, Oliver Stone, and Quentin Tarantino.

Hey, guys, I'm Josh Horowitz. Welcome to another edition of Happy, Sad, Confused. I'm Josh. You're you. and the guest today is Robert Richardson. Now, this is a big one. This is a big first for Happy, Sad, Confused. And as I say to Robert in this conversation,

I'm glad if anyone was going to be the first cinematographer, director of photography that was going to be on the show, it was him. We've obviously talked to many, many great directors, some writers, a ton of actors, but never a cinematographer, which is obviously one of the most important jobs in creating a film. And if you don't know the name Robert Richardson, you've definitely, definitely seen his films. He's one of the greats of all time. He's won three Oscars, nominated nine times, and is most well known for his collaborations, as I said, with three significant filmmakers, arguably three of the most significant filmmakers in the history of movie making. He shot the last bunch of Quentin Tarantino films, starting at Kill Bill all the way up to Once Upon a Time in Hollywood, which we're obviously promoting here today on the podcast.

He's been working with Martin Scorsese on films like Hugo and the Aviator bringing out the dead and Shudder Island. And he, most notably early in his career, really came to the floor working with Oliver Stone. And arguably, I would say, one of the great runs of any filmmaker's career. Oliver Stone, who they started working together on Salvador and then, you know, off top of my head through Wall Street, Platoon, JFK. Nixon, more on the 4th of July, like, these were like, this was Oliver and Robert at the top of their games and some of the most influential filmmaking for me as a teenager when I watched those movies. So a real honor and distinct pleasure to talk to Robert, who is a film, obviously a film buff, a film fan, a master of his craft, and just a pleasure. to talk to. So, you know, this was, this was a distinct honor. I'm, of course, embarrassed because I feel like I name-checked someone at the, what did I do? Oh, yeah. We were talking about Oliver

Stone, and I think I said that Oliver Stone wrote Patton. Of course, that wasn't, that was for Francis Ford Coppola. So, ugh, Josh, film geek messed up right in front of one of his heroes. Oh, my God, guys. Anyway, forgive me for that one. But other than that, this was a great chat. We talked about all of his major collaborations. And some of the films that never were, including, you know, apropos, a lot of People, you know, always are talking about superhero movies about the Batman film that Robert was going to shoot with Ben Affleck, some really interesting insight into what that movie might have been. So that's fascinating. Anyway, that's the main event today. This, of course, is our second conversation about Once Upon a Time in Hollywood, which is now out in theaters. We had Quentin on the podcast last week. Lots of great feedback on that one. Thank you guys. And lots of great feedback, I should say also, for the on-camera MTV interview I did. with Leonardo and Brad Pitt and Margot Robbie that was a real, yeah, a real honor. And I'm thrilled that so many people have enjoyed watching that one. If you haven't seen it yet, check it out on MTV News's YouTube page.

Beyond that, I haven't talked to you guys about Comic-Con. I'm a little bit late because we pre-taped the Quentin one. But I will just say, I'm still alive after Comic-Con, another year in the books. Exhausting, insane. I think I interviewed, like, I don't know what the final numbers were. I wrote it down somewhere. It was like 25 different sets of people. I did the casts of every major TV show.

Not a ton of movie presence, I will say, at Comic-Con this year. I interviewed the cast of Terminator and I interviewed the cast of Black Widow. But beyond that, and the cast of it was there as well, but beyond those three, it was not a huge movie year. Though I will say, maybe my favorite trailer drop. Top Gun. Top Gun Maverick. Amazing. Can't wait.

So, yeah, it was a great time at Comic-Con. All of our interviews, most of them really have been put up, and I think they're still being put up on MTV News's YouTube page. There's, like, a ton of stuff there. An embarrassment of riches, if you want to watch me asking smart and silly questions to the casts of your favorite TV shows and movies. It's all up there. So check it out.

That will occupy you for a number of hours. Hell, it occupied me for a number of days. So the least you can do is watch it, right, guys? Right? Okay, cool. All right. On to the main event. This conversation is with Robert Richardson. Don't worry. No spoilers for once upon a time in Hollywood. If you haven't seen it yet, you can listen to this first. And just listen to a master of filmmaking, talk about his craft and some of the major films in his career. And they're some of the major films of the last 30 years. So this is a conversation well worth checking out if you're as much of a movie fan as I am. Remember to review, rate and subscribe to Happy Say I Confused. spread the good word. And without any further ado, here's the great Robert Richardson. The great Robert Richardson is in my office. This is a distinct pleasure, sir. Thank you for coming by today. That's my pleasure. You're the first cinematographer I've had on this podcast. I've talked to many, many, many great directors. And it's long overdue that I talked to a DP.

And if it was the first one that was going to be anybody, it was going to be you. Because, Your films have meant a lot to me throughout my life. Why so long to get to DPs? I know. Never enough justice for the DPs. Never. Well, maybe now we'll start a trend. Congratulations on the new film.

Your latest collaboration with Quentin Tarantino, of course, once upon a time in Hollywood. I should have paused dot, dot, dot, dot, in Hollywood. Which is what's so beautiful about concluding the film. Yes. To what you just said. Yes. The pause.

Well, yes. And we don't want to ruin the ending, but it does, well, anyway, we'll get to the movie. Let's talk about you, first of all, in your life and career a little bit. How do you explain to people, lay people, what you do? I generally say, I just aim. You say what? I just aim the camera. That's really what I say is other people bring everything to the front.

Actors bring what they bring. I just take a camera. I look through the view piece, and I shoot. Yeah. Do you think, generally speaking, most people have the foggiest idea of what a... Not a vague clue. If you go to the average person to know that a film might take, you're shooting 12 to 14 hours a day, you may shoot particularly, like, say, this film, you're 12 to 14 hours a day, you're shooting over 100 days.

Yeah. And you do three months or four months of prep to get prepared for it. No one has that idea that work in film is that complex. Yeah. So, okay, so when you're growing up, most kids don't grow up, presumably saying I want to be a cinematographer, I want to be a DP. What was your awareness, your knowledge of film as a kid, was film a big part of your household? And when did you kind of learn what a director, let alone a DP, did? Good question.

I think that my teens, I wanted to be a still photographer. I started to shoot a lot with a camera. I always had it in my hands. I was sent away to a private school because I wasn't the best of brothers and one of the brothers had to be separated. There's always one. And I was the one that was chosen. As a result, I got isolated. So exposure to the world because I was sitting in the middle of New Hampshire in a private school that didn't have access.

But what we did do is we were able to see, they took us on a field trip 2001, which is one of the first large experience of a cinema that I had seen. and Godfather, and those two absolutely shook it up. Now, knowing that I want to, do I want to do this? How do I want to pursue film? I didn't know at that time at all. As a child, of course, I'd gone to any film that would come to a local theater. As a kid, my mother would every birthday

bring us Disney films like Dumbo or, you know, et cetera, and she projected them on 16 millimeter force at the birthday party. So my life did start with those type of films, then any film that I could, was appropriate, I would go to. But as love and as a future, I didn't see it. I went to the University of Vermont a little later on and decided that the University of Vermont, I was going to study oceanography.

Great choice for landlock. How on the list of potential career options did that possibly emerge? Well, because they come from Cape Cod and there's Woods Hole. Got it. So somehow that was a car. There's a little link. But what happened was I realized immediately this is an insane concept, landlocked oceanography. you've got to be, you are so stupid.

It was the only place I could get into anyway. Nobody wanted me. So I started to take film courses. And as I was taking film courses, and I was working with a friend, and I started to watch Berkman films. That's when I knew this is where I want to go. Just that the level of artistry,

the level of craftsmanship, the writing. And Bergman, with a very tight group, created so many films that were astoundingly brilliant. And that just led me more into film. And so I dropped out of all courses except for those that were involved with either theory or in any case, if you had practical, I'd do practical. So by the time you find this newfound love affair or this rekindled kind of expanded love affair, your first jobs from what I gather were in docs. I mean, that was really where you made your bones before starting to collaborate with Oliver, Oliver Stone.

Was that happenstance or was that sort of where the work was? I went to AFI, American Filmist, and out of AFI, I ended up meeting a few people that, various people, Juan Ruizan Chia, who's a very well-known DP, close range, other films like that, and he was going on to make a movie, and he brought me on as a camera assistant. It was an error of judgment on my part. I'm a terrible camera assistant, but I was not well-paid, which of course made them want me more, even though my faults were large and it was with Dennis Hopper

and Begus Luna was the director, reborn. I did sort of fail in a lot of ways. I got into a slight habit that you don't really want to get into as a camera system because your eyesight starts to go away.

One of my nostrils wasn't working properly and I was in the zone of sort of helping Dennis at the same time in the same zone. it all together. Okay. And it was a low T-stop. And then this relationship happened with a producer's girlfriend. Things weren't really proper with that. This is the Robert I want to talk to. That guy back in the day. But Dennis Hopper would live in his life. Living life. It should have been fired. But Juan took me one day. We were sitting in a pool and he said, what do you want to do? Be a camera assistant

the gaffer or what? And I said, I want to be a DP. He said, well, you need to stop everything you're doing. just focus. So shortly after that, I got a call from another friend that went to Tom Richmond, was another director of photography that was at AFI. And he said, I offered this film in El Salvador, but I don't want to go. Would you be willing to meet the director, which is Jeff Harmon? Jeff came to visit me, because I said yes. I was painting the walls similar to the color of your office, the pink.

I asked him what he thought of the color. that was what sold them on me. I said, you know, I love this salmon. It's really beautiful. He said, do you think you can do it if you go to war? And that is absolutely where it started. And I said, yes. And, of course, there were various stories about whether I succeeded or not.

But I stayed there and shot with the right wing because he's American, and we were shooting the right wing, the death squads, et cetera, and the army. And then the left wing was being shot by an English director with a French crew. They ended up being, the French crew got chased out through Guatemala, got caught. and so I ended up shooting both sides of this particular front-line piece. That was the first doc, really, and that documentary led to Salvador. Which, I mean, yeah, it's like if there's somebody meant to be shooting Salvador with Oliver Stone, you've just listed, you have the only resume to do that at the time.

Despite maybe your, you know, lack of experience, you had the right experience. And Oliver, I mean, you know, we'll get to your collaboration with Oliver in a significant way Because you really were his main collaborator on, like, the great run of Oliver Stone films. Very fortunately. I mean, unbelievable. But he wasn't much of anything at the time. He had directed a film, The Hand, as I recall. But he also won an Oscar.

Oh, okay, for writing, for Patton, for, you know. Well, you have Midnight Express. For Midnight Express, yeah, rather. And then you have Scarface. Right. So as being nobody. Fair enough, fair enough. As a director, I would say.

As a director, he hadn't hit it yet. Yes. on hand and and this was his first. It was the most fascinating first meeting. Was he? Yeah, who was he then? Because he's sitting in a desk just like you are.

Leather jacket, tied up to the neck, sweat. And, you know, he's a large man. Yeah. There was no air conditioning in this small little office. It was a tiny little office. There was no money in the movie. It was like, what, a million dollars?

A little less than a million dollars, something like that. And I'm looking at him like, oh my God. He's sweating. Profusely. When did you take your leather jacket off? I mean, Oliver, and I didn't really know him at that point. He asked me one simple question. Can you intercut a long lens with a wide lens?

I said, sure, why not? Go next door and talk to the producer. Let's see what you can work out in terms of money, and then I'll get back to you to see whether or not we make this movie. It was virtually like that. There was a few more questions. It's been not a great deal. A little bit to talk about Salvador, what it was like to experience it,

who I shot with, who I didn't. Yeah. And that was the opportunity that really of a lifetime, and that led to Platoon. Platoon was the next one, which, yeah, I mean, you know, we could go into all of these in great detail, obviously, so we'll have to skip around. But Platoon, I mean, among many things that strike me about Platoon is, like, there's the shadow, especially at that time, I would think, of Apocalypse Now over any war film. Was that a significant discussion point in, like, how to differentiate, how is this film going to look and feel different than. Again, you're looking at a budget is vastly different. Sure.

I loved Apocalypse now. I still love Apocalypse. I've seen the film. I can't even count the number of times I've seen the film, as well as the Redux. I think Starro is one of our greatest cinematographers in the business, which you should have interviewed him. Just to say, I mean. Just take the compliment that you're the first. I do.

I take it. But I love, love it. And it wasn't actually an element in our discussion because he won a grunt level. He wanted to be in the trench. not floating on the water or the sort of hallucinogenic approach. It was based on his own personal experiences. Right. You're in the shoes of that recruit.

He wanted to be on the ground. Yeah. And I don't think we could have done it any other way at that time in our career. When you look at Coppola, he had been making films for a number of years. So he was at a different level in terms of his creativity. And also, he was truly climaxing in a massive way. And his wife made an astounding documentary. But so, no, it wasn't a part of our discussions.

And then you go immediately into another flat-out classic Wall Street, which is like the now stands as like the quintessential document of the 80s. I mean, I grew up in New York. I was like a kid at that time, but like it does capture that. I mean, you have even like the iconic scene of the 80s, which is Michael Douglas with the largest phone ever on a beach walking. Congratulations. You captured the 80s in one image basically right there. And also, greed is good. Greed is good. I mean, those, those, the energy of those scenes of, you know, I think of like Bud Fox getting the call from gecko. Right. And just the energy, both on the floor and the constantly moving camera. It was very shark-like. I mean, our intention on that was to move that camera in the way a shark would move.

just constantly circling until you hit the prey yeah never stopping trying never to stop and that that was a pretty remarkable slip for me although the platoon was emotionally more charged for me particularly that last moment with Charlie as he goes off in the helicopter and his voiceover comes up and and also the experience itself was monumental yeah with Wall Street I was a little bit separate I didn't know New York that well Oh, that comes more from, you know, obviously Oliver knows his world very well because that's where he grew. Right.

Father was stockbroker, I believe. Yes. It's dedicated to him, as I recall. Yeah, and then, I mean, just, like, moving through a couple of these, I mean, born the Fourth of July, an amazing film, the doors. But, I mean, the film that really, I mean, the reason you're here in many ways for me and the reason I do what I do in some ways is JFK. I mean, I saw JFK, I think, when I was, like, probably 16 or 17. Right. And so, you know, I wasn't a kid.

but it was a next-level experience. Walking out of that theater, I didn't know what I had just seen. It was just an assault on the senses. What was the, I mean, was that all in the script? Was that in the conversations with Oliver in terms of like using different film formats, in terms of what the intent was to put an audience through on that one? On that film, because of Subruder,

the Zabruder work was the heart. And so, and since it was shot on 8mm, we backed out of that, and that was a centerpiece. And so then we decided, okay, this is going to be our, for us, eight or super 8 world when you're trying to capture it. And then when we're working from different perspectives that are maybe imagined and not seen, we would go into black and white in different levels that are 16 or 35, depending upon the grain and the structure we wanted to do it and how much of it's a hypothesis. Right. these imagined scenes perhaps or not of Oswald, et cetera, the plotting, et cetera. Yeah, yeah, totally. And also a brilliant editor, Hank Corwin, was involved in, he was a close friend at that time and I introduced him to Oliver. He's not listed as an editor on the movie, except for an additional

editor, but he was very much responsible for that opening section with the, you know, amazing. You know, it's like, it's, and that, if you look at that, also, that opening, Yeah. It is, in fact, MBK. It is due turn. Yes. His movement, and that's also how you can see

it's all starting to shift into, oh, let's utilize formats. Let's use textures. Right. Also, to work with Errol Morris, that's cheap and out of control. Yes. Slipping into the same sort of zones

of trying to bring textures to us. Naturalborn killers, yes. So if, like, if JFK was assault on the census, I don't even know what used to say about natural born killers, which was just like a next level. And arguably hasn't been, matched in whatever you and Oliver were going for since. I know it was maybe the, arguably the

toughest shoot of your career for a number of reasons. Is that fair to say? Emotionally, it was an extraordinarily difficult period of time. My wife was having our second child and she had preeclampsia and the child wanted to get out of the body, which basically means the child wanted to get out of the body and she went into a freeze-out basically all her units stopped and kidney liver we were doing midwife because we wanted to have a water birth our first child was water birth conscience and this is Maya and so she almost died in the process I had to prepare my oldest daughter was only three years old for the death of her mother which is extremely complicated to do and to think about how you're going to do that with somebody.

Yeah. So I shot, they allowed me, she was an intensive care unit to bring our baby, Maya, who was not much more than four and a half pounds. And the nurse brought her to the mother and I filmed it so that conscience, when I went home and showed it to her, would see that her mother was alive and holding. So it wasn't as if the mother had died. Right. And she might, forever hold her sister responsible for the death. Well, they both did survive, which is a good side of this. I could go on with that story, but it wasn't pretty. But Oliver was at a party with his wife, and at that time, Elizabeth,

and Elizabeth said that Bob's, you know, my nunner's in the hospital, and she's intensive care, and she might pass away. and Oliver made some brotherly remark, which was Elizabeth then told my wife, which was, well, Bob won't have any problem getting another wife. Wow. Now, I don't know if that's true,

but what it did do is it did make it extraordinarily difficult to make that film because then my wife said, if you make that film, I want a divorce. And I went on a scout with Oliver, and I'm out there and I said I can't make the movie with you all over him and he was why I said and I told my story he said and he was divorcing his wife so I said

I can't he goes I can't have two divorces at once and I I didn't want to give the film up sure I brothers are brothers I mean that attitude is really out it's not he didn't say that in a mean way he just said it out of what we do when you're hanging out with friends and

Fend falls and hits the ground and gets hurt, you tend to giggle. I mean, I'm not telling about terribly hurt, but like, you know, they fall, they bruises. We laugh, and I think that's all that was with Oliver was more or less, that element. Because we had a great relationship. We're very, very close. Does that, I mean, you know, we often talk about, like, directors, like, their wives being imprinted upon a film. I'm curious, like, this is a broader question, but also kind of a micro question for natural-born killers. Like, do you see yourself in that film, for instance, like you were going through some really dark stuff around that film.

Is that reflected in the way you shot that film? And certain things. I asked Oliver to include certain things. A drunk father, which is my life. And one of the most disturbing drunk fathers ever in a film, is a... No, that's a different... Not Rodney? Not Rodney.

There's a flashback to a man that picks up a dog and throws a dog. Also pretty disturbing. And that was really out of my own life. Wow, okay. So when we talked about making the movie, I asked if there were things we could include because I said, let's try to make this movie in a way which hasn't been made before. And that included the green screens.

And then I went across the country shooting travel material off the back of a truck, dead animals on the side of the road, trains, mountains, etc. And a lot of those were utilized and then Hank and myself and all, they're all put together things we thought were the evils of the world, whether it was the beating of seals and women wearing furs and this and that and this and that. And so a lot of those got placed in there. And, of course, it influenced my psyche tremendously to make this movie. My sleep patterns were horrible.

I was up on edge. I broke a hand on one scene because of the violence of which I had to hit the cell. And one time I was shooting side angle on Tommy Lee Jones as he's walking through into the prison. and I was side while Larry McConkey was shooting Steadicamp from the front and I just happened to walk right into a cell. I'm not a cell, but a gate, a prison gate, and the camera lens, camera eyepiece cut into my eye. And I had this giant golf ball of blood.

And I'm looking at Oliver and he's like, okay. Oh yeah, I'm sure he loved it in a way. I don't know of love, but you definitely thought, you put your all under that one. I mean, I can see why you guys got along for so long and so well. And yet you then worked together on U-turn, but it's been some time now. You haven't worked together. And from what I gather, there was a bit of a falling out related to you, working with Marty.

You went off to work with Scorses. Well, yeah, on bringing out the dead, I started Oliver's film, and we did test with Puff Daddy as a quarterback. Right, right, remember that, yeah. And that didn't—he fell out pretty late, yeah. And it didn't work out. And so the film got postponed while I was looking for somebody else to play the role. Wait, you could be like the one person to confirm this very old rumor. Was it because he couldn't throw a football?

It's because his football throwing wasn't as strong as you would anticipate it should be for a major league quarterback. Very much a diplomat. Okay, fair enough. I wanted to clear that up before we went further. Yeah. And so we split ways. He was upset. It was like it's crossing a line.

And that line was too much of a line for him to accept. Yeah. And it ended our relationship until Pinkville. Which also came very close, as I recall. That was shut down, very close to production. Two weeks, I think. Yeah. We had gear, those in transit, and then Bruce pulled out.

Right, Bruce Willis. And it ended that film, and that would have been nice for me to resurrect that relationship. John Killick was a producer on that. So nothing since. That was the close call recently. No, we're talking about working together on a project. is uh it's an element i can't talk a lot about it but it's for jfk around the original film you're saying like it's doc it's going to be a documentary with interviews on new material that's been

found since that time wow okay i will look forward to that um scorsese uh another key collaborator um i guess the first collaboration was on casino casino which is another classic um so i mean you know who knows more about film Marty or Tarantino you've got two of the masters right there I would say Marty knows more A Quinn more B or genre specific Right he's the grind house

Asian cinema etc yeah yeah and also Quinn knows everything Yeah I mean Quinn has a memory for lines He's a memory for lines he was on the podcast last week and he came in and he remembered where I ranked

Hateful 8 on my top 10 list He's a savant And he can He will sit there and like Remar will be there And I go oh I remember that line And he'll throw out the line that he sat in the movie That Remar can't even makely remember Or Kurt or anyone

He's amazing in terms of his memory of dialogue In scenes as well It's not just he knows cinema I think probably more than anybody that I've encountered So okay before we get to Quentin So what I mean you've worked with what

Marty like four or five times I want to say Including Hugo the Aviator Even on Oscars with him bringing out the dead Shur Island I love Shutter Island by the way I mean it's a very simple question But like what is there a way to characterize What makes him the next level

Like arguably the greatest filmmaker of our time like how do you well it's difficult when you walk out of movies like the first one i saw of his was mean streets yeah and that was a fundamental movie for me in terms of the way i saw cinema today as changing and uh and then you go to raging bowl and taxi driver he carries that sensibility in all of his work when he's that deeply involved because seen it was very similar highly devoted for example at a certain point I've worked with Oliver quite a bit so he and I got to a point where I would do the script and put as many shots down as I could yeah and then he'd do his and I'd hand him mine more likely than not he

wouldn't like my work but it was attempt to really get us to have a conversation sure I got it so I asked if I could do that with Marty sent him a few set of pages and producer said yes and I did send it off and then about two days later I'm told I got to come into the office. Marty wants to talk to me. And Barbara DeFina was a producer at that point. She said to me, Marty's very upset. And I said, well, what is Marty upset about? He didn't appreciate the notes. But Bob, you told me I could send them. Marty gets on the phone. Bob, I appreciate that you sent the notes. I have not looked at them, nor will I ever look at them. I am writing the script

until I complete the script to my satisfaction only at that point will I then go into it and devise shots for it and when I do that I'll hand you a script that has every shot in the film

which is exactly what happened so in a case of working with someone like Marty it sounds like it's more of like your task is to execute to the utmost ability his vision like he knows exactly what he wants and that must be hugely rewarding because he's a genius

But, same with Quinn. But so, so, so Oliver, more collaborative, like to say. But again, you know, Oliver and Quinn are extremely similar in the sense of both are writers and directors. Right. Oliver's written most of his material. He's collaborated with some people.

Marty hasn't written most of his material. He generally collaborates or pulls from other people. Right. And I think there's, you know, for Quentin, he makes an exception with Marty. but in general his perspective is the only real director is a writer director they own their material

Quinn visualized once upon a time for five years I mean he knows everything he wants you're not going to there's no you're not have an argument or discussion about how he's fully formed in his eye by the time he gets a set he knows exactly

and when he comes to set he brings all the shot list Marty provides it ahead of time he does a whole movie and then he sees a whole movie in this round but as Marty says I generally do this from the perspective of a studio so I might have a camera that's

30 feet in the air or 20 feet in the air and it moves down but then on location you find you're going to get nine feet up yeah and so he's willing to make shifts in the concepts but he still wants his vision and excursionally specific about it is

Hugo is probably the only film you've ever shot in 3D and I don't think anyone shoots in 3D anymore I was going to say there was that time after Avatar where like everybody and a lot of it was post-converted obviously it wasn't Herzog did Herzog? He did a doc right? Yes exactly and I think

what was the one about Nick that I was shot in 3D the documentary about Nick you know I'll remember all good all good no worries so but yeah the point is yeah there was that spade of like suddenly thought like everyone was going to do 3D, then it was like,

oh, no, everyone's just going to do shitty post-converted 3D. Was that a unique and amazing challenge? I mean, it was the right kind of, yeah, I would think. And it was phenomenal because you're dealing with a director with an extraordinarily visual mind. Yeah. And yet, neither one of us had the experience to be able to anticipate what a change in I-O or what a change in, you know, how strong you push or how strong you don't push something. And also what color does.

and so we were devising shots that were phenomenal because you were looking at them on a 3D screen with your glasses you got all right now what can I do to make that better and do I want it that strong where do I want where I want to where I want to what where I want to it was a magical experience at the time I remember it was the only time I've ever interviewed Scorsese and he was like suddenly all in he was like I'm only going to shoot things in 3D

of course that hasn't happened since probably partially due to financial considerations etc but yeah it's easy to post. Yeah. So, okay, so the Quentin collaboration, we've already alluded to a bit of this, but it begins on the Kill Bill film films. However, do you consider one film or two films?

You shot one film. I shot one film. Yeah, you shot one really big film. I shot one big film. And, uh, but it did become two. So do you have, um, a favorite sequence that you shot on that one? I think of the finale of, uh, of, of, uh, of Kill Bill volume one, which goes from black and white, the crazy 88's, that amazing action.

And also in full color in Japan. Right, right. That's one of my favorite sequences completely. Yeah. I mean, you have to love that. I mean, there's so many other parts of it that I love as well. Yeah. Within the film.

But that was endless amounts of work. I also loved the fight outside in the snow. Oh, gorgeous. Which is like just brilliantly told and a phenomenal set. Well, also it goes from frenetic to just like very still and elegant. Yes. Which is kind of what makes. it work. I could do an hour owning. Glorious, which has, I think, four or five of the

greatest scenes, like, ever. Opening. Opening sequence, the bar scene. Those are probably two of my favorites, yeah. So, okay, so again, you kind of allude to this. In the script that you get from Quentin, are shots described in detail? Certain shots are always listed, an attitude towards it, certainly. Very detailed in terms of what makes up the sequence, what's in the props, what's in the production design, the look, et cetera. Yeah. And then there are pivotal shots that are listed, and it could be varying. Like, you know, he wants to move from, for Kill Bill, come down the hallway, he had

that shot, you know, that was already there. Yeah. And so certain elements like that are listed, Orhill, you know, like, for me, when I was with him on Kill Bill, I didn't have that level of knowledge of that genre. Right. And I was living on Cape Cod and I had my kids. and my wife was away on a retreat, a writing retreat. And so I kept the kids out of school.

And we would just watch Lady Snowblood. I got these young kids watching these movies like, yeah, okay. My wife would cost it, how'd a girl? Great, how was school. It was fantastic. They had a very good time. They were learning a lot. Learning an awful lot lying next to me watching all of Quinn's movie.

And there had to be like, I had 80 or 100 films from Quinn. And I'd just turn them on. I would, like, guys, we don't need to go to school. We should be doing this. No, that's a school in its own right. How early does he bring you on into the process? Does he bring you on, like, once the script is locked and the cast is in? Or does he bring you into works and progress and to discuss things?

That was pretty well in the zone of starting. Right. I mean, I was probably... But that was your first time collaborating. Yeah, eight or nine weeks. Yeah, but I guess, like, by now, does he, like, key you in on, like, things prior to a Go project? Well, for example, with, with, uh, Once I was brought in, I'm going to go five months out, but to read, not to be hired yet.

So I read the script and what's the purpose of that, to get your take on it, to get your... No, I want to let me know, like, what we're shooting. Got it. This is the film I'm going to make, and in that particular case, I was brought to the set. I mean, brought to his house, and he was in the living room. I was in the kitchen, in the dining room kitchen table, and he just watched me the entire time. It was, nothing like having, I've done it before, but usually I've put it in the back room. Oh, my God.

And this time, it's like Quinn Tarantino watching you. And I'm making notes, and I'm laughing, and he's just out of the corner of his eyes, he's not staring, but he can tell what I, you know, know me very well. He can see the twinkle or, you know what I'm getting into something, and I'm like, got a smile on my face. And he read me through. And then just at the end, I said, Quinn, come on. What are you doing to me? I don't even give me the end of the movie. Oh, he didn't give you the end?

There's no end. Quinn, you've got to give me the end. He says, no, you'll get that later. No, no, no, I got to let me know what's going to happen at the end. The ending was only served up in the production office, in a private room, and it was pulled from the safe, the last act. Wow. Only those that was absolutely necessary to know how to create for him were given the last act.

Okay. Well, we're not going to reveal what happens, but that's fascinating. Yeah, as you were describing Quentin watching you, I feel like nobody, and I appreciate this about him, I think nobody enjoys Quentin Tarantino movies more than Quentin Tarantino. And I kind of love that about him. Like, he loves it. Well, of course, he loves film. Yeah.

The reason that all, I mean, like Oliver, you know, Marty and Quinn are brilliant. And also, I work with John Sayles, I have a very similar approach, too, and Errol has a very similar. You know, it's because they are deeply in love with filmmaking and making the film that they're making at that moment. Yeah. And that passion is contagious. Yeah, that is the common denominator through most of the filmmakers you've worked with. I would rather have a tough director demanding of me certain things than a director who doesn't demand of me. Well, that sums up your collaborations.

That's how I describe 90% of the people you've worked with probably. But people always go, would you work with Tony Scott? Yes, I'll work with Tony. Yeah. Like, why, I don't have a fear of a director. It's like, I'd love to work with Michael Mann. It's like, you know, Paul Thomas Sanders, I don't care how demanding somebody is. I'll find a way to work with their.

That's my job. It struck me, I mean, watching this one, there's so much that I love about this film in particular. I mean, it's a really, you know, it's a love letter to a lot of things. You photograph movie stars really well. It's like a great movie star role, especially, I mean, Leo's great, but I feel like Brad is like in full-on movie star mode in this film. I feel like, you know, when he's like up on the roof, he's taking off his shirt, you're like, oh, yeah, you're like the movie star of the last 50 years.

Are there like certain, are there certain faces, actors that you like photographing? Well, I've worked with Brad three times and Leo four. my relationship with both of them is one of complete trust and respect for their work and of course I love shooting I think Brad does have the star power I think Leo has that same thing but in this particular case he played his role so well yeah because he's a man at a mid-level zone and he plays it at that mid-level and it's dropping yes and he's flailing he's holding all his career is just it just on by threads And that to me is vital, but I also feel that the movie is a movie is about you and myself and anybody that's in a career and that career moves to a certain level and then it makes shifts.

And you have to have the intuition and the brilliance to be able to know how to pocket what those shifts are. He's seen the world passing by literally. They're like, and he doesn't know what to make of it. He could have easily shifted into a very positive attitude towards Italian cinema. Yes. He doesn't shift into that so easily. And there's more of a battle Whereas you see Brad

Floating into it I don't see what's so bad about going to live in Rome He's living his Zen lifestyle He'll be fine And I think yeah That Zen approach is exactly what makes His character The one that has at life

He's a good opposite Yeah But the two of them together Like watching even Just simply watching FBI Yeah Did you love especially I sense

But at Al's face as well there's a life there and yeah i mean i went back just recently did panic you know neil park and you know it's like you start to go through all of his films i went uh into de palma's work with him which is you know i love that carlita's way it's amazing and then you know i shifted into another diploma prior to that which is obsession which isn't with him but you know i just decided because a lot of those films were part of what what i did like obsession was more of the zone of where i was going to look at for, I want to go back in time. But I didn't want that much diffusion. In order to Quinn, we wanted something that was tighter. Actually, it's a little closer to Carlita's

way, you know, because it's tighter. And Birm shot that and Zigman shot the other. Yeah. Do you, um, did anything, so, you know, it's interesting because you, you, you, you shoot the film. You deliver all this amazing footage. And then it's in the hands of the filmmaker and the editor. And I don't know if you're involved. Do you ever see? You're not. You're not. You're in the edit room ever right so you're at the premiere or early screening and you see the film how often just generally speaking first are you excited happy with what you see or are you always like like like like often i hear from an actor like oh they didn't use the take that i loved i'm not quite that way it's uh with olivero as we got as a relationship but i'd see earlier

cuts in the editing room or on the screen he'd ask for some notes or if i had notes and you know Generally, the very few, because he's in the process. With Quinn, I was invited to the editing room on a number of the films to watch it on a Steinbeck or whatever he was using at the time or the avid and we would go to that process. And I would see it and then make notes or tell him what I thought. Or we had a screening and he'd watch me. You know, like, oh, because when I saw once,

he showed me once like the first maybe hour. And it was a complete ride. and I was like giddy. And we were at photo cam, and at the very end, he goes, well, we got a live one here. You know, so many of the people have been working so long, they didn't have those initial responses because it was brand new to me.

I'd seen it. I try not to think about my work. Because in truth, your work, my work, I don't like my work. Oh, I've heard you say you don't go back and watch them ever. I don't like to go back and see my films. I mean, if I have to go to a screening, then I'll sit, you know, and watch it.

but I prefer not to see my work. It's always something that I feel I can do better. Do you, so Quentin always talks about the 10 and done thing. This is his ninth. Do you believe him? Do you think that he's only going to do one more? I hope, I think he'll do one more film for sure. I think then there'll be theater.

Right. I think there'll be a book. I wouldn't doubt that he writes for something like Netflix, something that might be 10 long. Right. I mean, because his mind is there. It's like, as opposed to get locked down into a three-hour movie or two-and-a-hour movie, why not tell the tale that's 10 hours or 15 hours long?

Yeah. I think that's more his place in the future. He was telling me, again, he has all these, like, he's a thousand ideas, obviously. He's like, Hans von der Mysteries, set in Nantucket. I was like, I will watch 10 hours of that on Netflix. Done. And Kill Bill 3. I mean, he said he just talked to Uma the other week.

week. I mean, who knows what that'll be. Exactly. Has he told you anything about Star Trek? That, I kind of want to see that, too. I want to see the R version of Star Trek. I mean... Yeah, and I like Chris Pine quite a bit. Sure.

So I'm sort of looking forward to seeing what he does in that. That'll be a shake-up. That could be fantastic. Absolutely. That would be a wake-up. Definitely. A much-needed wake-up call for that franchise. Although I love the last three. Yes, I particularly like the first one. The first one is...

Well, because you have his entering into. Yes. You know, he's being pulled. into it. Yes. I really love that aspect of it. Jay J.J. did you know, well, he's a talent. Let's get it real. It's like... So you consume a lot of a film, both old and

new. This is... So what what inspires you nowadays, what in recent years has inspired you? I'm inspired by so many films. I also love I mean, I'm good with virtually, you can give me any zone, any genre. I can find a romantic comedy and cry.

I mean, I can, you know, five feet apart I saw. Oh, yeah? Now, I cried five feet apart. I thought acting was really nice between them and it was like false and stars. Like, I can go to that. I like, I love it. I mean, Shailene, unbelievable. And then I worked with Shailene on a drift. A drift. Yeah. When I did a private war, I tried to shift entirely out of this sort of zone that I'm in, you know, just all pretty much natural light. So I can go anywhere. You've never shot on digital, have you? Quite a bit. You have? Yeah. Well, Private War.

Okay. Adrift. Okay, okay. Breathe in any circus. Got it. Okay. I guess I was thinking of the three biggies that we were talking to collaborators. I guess was Hugo digital?

By necessity, yeah, yeah. By necessity. And with Oliver, we never got to digital. Yeah. Although we would be shooting digital now if we were working together. And Marty's shooting digital now. And does it bother you at all or are you as not at all? I'm very open.

I find that the art of both digital. and film have their pluses and their minuses. A real great plus for film is that you are required to stop after 10 minutes, unless you're doing Super 35 or you're doing two-perf, and you get longer periods of time, but you can't just roll it. Yeah, you can wear an actor out with digital. She can all get out, yeah, and maybe you get great things. But I like the idea that you have to stop.

And also, but I do love digital for so many other reasons, because you can grade almost on the set if you have a grader. Yeah. I love that aspect that I can create a better set of dailies for someone. But in film, you can do it too because we're all going DIs. Right. I mean, this film went DI, whereas Hateful was a complete chemical finish. Right.

Which is very old school. Right. Do you... Okay, so you mentioned, it's interesting, you mentioned Pinkville. That was one that got away. Is there any other project that came that close that got away that still gnaws at you almost had? No, no.

Although I was told the other day that I was shooting Batman when I woke up. I heard that. So I had to write Matt and said, I've never met Matt. Oh, no. So I wrote Matt and said, oh, Matt. I said, I woke this morning here and I'm shooting your movie. It's such a delight. I wish, you know, you had told me.

When do we start? When do we start? And then, of course, they'd come out with a new one with Greg. Greg Fraser's doing it. Yeah, now we have it. And I wrote him again. I said, I can't believe. I sent him, I sent him the Hollywood, whatever, came out, and I said, this is unfair, Matt.

This is an emotional roller coaster. Yeah, but I don't know, Matt, but he had, no, I wanted to shoot Batman with Ben, because that was the next film we had. Right, because you had done live by night with him. Yeah, which I adore shooting with, you know, that was a great experience for me with Ben. And I think highly underappreciated, that's a digital film. That was the Airy 65. Got it. How far down the road on Ben's Batman?

Did you get, did you have a script? Did you, were you working on? There was a script, but not a loved script. Got it. There was a lot of work that he was doing to it. He was trying to change it. And then he made the decision to do, as you know, a gone girl. Right.

So. Were there reference points, I'm just curious, like, for what the look of that film would have been to differentiate it from previous Batman films? Well, he was going more into the insanity aspects. Uh-huh. So I think you would have seen something a little darker than what we've seen the past and more into the individual who's inside Batman, what element may be sane and what element actually may not be sane. So he was entering into a little more of the Arkham. It's like, you know,

he's going into where you keep everyone who's bad and everyone that's shifted and Batman. So that whole aspect was sort of, it was very fascinating to go to the darker side of Batman. Yeah, we never, I mean, I'm a comic geek, as you can imagine. We've never really seen Arkham Asylum. No, and And that's where we were going. That would have been cool. It was like, and you'd read and go like, oh, and who's, ooh. It's like, I was very, very interested in that one. Yeah, and I'm buddies with Joe Mangonello, who I guess was going to be Deathstroke,

who I think was going to be one of the key antagonists in that one. What might have been? What might have been? So a superhero film is still something that just like, that would intrigue you. That's, I would love to do. It's what's being made now. Why not try your hand at it? Yeah, I mean, I met with Tim Burton to do Superman.

Oh, my God. He had Nick Cage at that time. And I remember I sat with him and I said, you know, I wouldn't it be interesting if we could actually shoot him flying? Like drop him from an airplane so that you get the real movement of wind on a face in a dive. Yeah. And he was like, oh, that would be great. And we were thinking about it, like, but of course you know that,

dude, it's not going to let that one happen. But I did think, just capturing that sense of flight. Make it happen when Tom Cruise, he's up for it. He'll do it. Yeah, he would do it. Also, recently I went to see John Wick. I love John Wick. I mean, I saw The Three in a theater just recently.

It's like, it's our Spider-Man as well. But I thought John Wick, three, I can't think you can kill more people. I don't think they've tapped out. They tapped out. How can you get more people? I have an entire city hunting them down. I love it. I love Keanu because he's got that face.

It's like from Matrix. What's happening with him? He's really our plan. I want those. He's preserved in Loyal, L'A. I don't know what's happening. I could talk to you for hours. As I said, long overdue in having a DP on this show, but I'm so pleased it was you that

was the first because you've met a lot to my love of film over the years. And I'm so thrilled that you're continuing your collaboration with Quentin on this one. Once Upon a Time, dot, dot, dot, dot, in Hollywood is the film. Everybody check it out. It's a beautiful piece of work that don't need to know about the third act. Don't worry about the third act. Just watch the first two thirds and then be shocked and amazed. But it's actually just like a...

It's a masterpiece. It is. It's one of his best, and that's saying a lot. Yeah, I don't know how much more to say, except it's a great Quentin Tarantino film, and that's all you should know. Yeah, and have a little bit more laid back attitude. Yeah, it's a hangout film. It's not going to be a strong narrative running you through as much as you're going to have to enjoy or enjoy the process. don't search for the narrative as much as you would.

And live with these characters, and luckily they're amazing great characters. And beautifully weave together. Yeah. With a phenomenal soundtrack from KHJ, which is one of the few characters that we don't often talk about in the movie. Right. Is that KHJ keeps you entirely within 1969. Yeah. Because it plays nonstop throughout the film.

So it links every single character. Amazing. I'll see it at least a few more times on the big screen. Thank you so much for your time today. A real pleasure. Thank you for having you. And so ends another edition of Happy, Sad, Confused. Remember to review, rate, and subscribe to this show on iTunes

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