Happy Sad Confused - Robert Zemeckis

Episode Date: October 31, 2024

30 years after FORREST GUMP, RObert Zemeckis has reunited with Tom Hanks and Robin Wright for HERE! In his first appearance on the podcast, the legendary filmmakers talks some of his iconic films including BACK TO THE FUTURE, DEATH BECOMES HER, and WHO FRAMED ROGER RABBIT. UPCOMING LIVE EVENTS 11/9 -- Barry Keoghan ay 92NY in NY -- ⁠Tickets here⁠ 11/12 -- Pamela Anderson and Gia Coppola at 92NY in NY -- ⁠Tickets here⁠ SUPPORT OUR SPONSORS! BetterHelp -- Go to BetterHelp.com/HSC for 10% off ZocDoc -- Go to ZocDoc.com/HappySad Check out the ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Happy Sad Confused patreon here⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠! We've got discount codes to live events, merch, early access, exclusive episodes, video versions of the podcast, and more! To watch episodes of Happy Sad Confused, subscribe to ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Josh's youtube channel here⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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here with Hanks and Robin, you call a miracle. That's scary to me, that Robert Zemeckis, Tom Hanks, Robin, that's a struggle to get made. Yeah, it's terrifying, but it's the truth, but it's terrifying. Prepare your ears, humans. Happy, sad, confused begins now. I'm Josh Horowitz, and today on Happy, Say, Confused, Robert Zemeckis is here. He is responsible for some of the happiest film experiences of my life and probably yours.

Back to the future, Who Frame Roger Rabbit, Forrest Gump? I'm going to throw a death-be-cumzer in there, too, because I'm obsessed with that one. His latest re-teams him with much of the creative team of Forrest Gump, including Tom Hanks and Robin Wright. The movie is called Here, and it is as much of his work is groundbreaking, innovative, and deeply moving. I am so thrilled this brought him on the podcast for the very first time. Welcome, sir. Nice to be here. Thank you.

Congratulations again on the film, truly. We're on the eve of release You've been through this 20 plus times in your career Is it always a little bit of butterflies? I mean, you in your heart of hearts Know when a movie is working But you also never know how it's going to be received I suppose

So take me through your process now Yeah, exactly. How'd you like it? I enjoyed it. I loved it. I thought like I said, very moving. Hey, then mission accomplished. That makes me feel one down. One down. One down. That will take all of them that we can get.

No, it's always great. Yeah. I mean, you know, listen, this is part of the deal. You know, you make movies and then you have to send them out into the world. And you have to accept that as part of the, part of the very, very privileged position that you're in to be able to actually make movies. So that's, you have to accept all of that as part of the deal. this one again um as i said innovative truly like nothing that i've ever seen i think anyone has ever seen this has never been done and there are very few filmmakers that can say that once in a career and you probably can say it half a dozen times that you have innovated to the point where like literally it never happened that way prior you must take a certain pride in that in that aspect of the career well yes except you have to i i i do and it and it's and it's and it's lovely to, and it's lovely to hear that, and I appreciate that. But that's not what I said. I never set out

to do that. I only, I mean, it always comes from what I really start with in every movie, and I say this absolutely sincerely, is it starts with, hey, this would be a wonderful idea for a movie. Right. And it's a wonderful idea for a movie. And, you know, how can we really entertain the audience? by showing them this story in a way that they've never seen before. So that's how the process goes for me because I think my job is to be to enter, I'm in a mass media art form.

I'm in a mass audience art form. And I think that my job is to entertain. And one of the things that I think is entertaining is when you present something that's unique and the audience hasn't seen, specifically before. Right. It's a fool's errand to start with the tech and say, I want to try this toy out and then find the story. I've never, I've never, I've never said, you know, I really want to make a movie with a steady cam. Right. Right. Here's the thing, one of things. But I'll use it.

I'll use it. I'll use it if it improves the scene. Of course. Yeah. Exactly. I mean, if you'll indulge me just, just on the innovation part of this and, and the uniqueness of how you're telling the story. It tickles me because knowing your work, I can't think of many filmmakers that are so audacious with camera moves, with moving the camera, with long shots, continuous takes. So it's like you have actively taken out of your toolkit a superpower. Are you a masochist? Because that is, that's a huge thing to deny yourself as a filmmaker. Well, yes and no. So first of all, That was the graphic novel that Richard McGuire wrote. Right.

That was what he painted. That was his vision. It would be horrible for me to like take that not. It wouldn't work because it only works because of this idea that you're that you're in this fixed view of the universe and that everything moves before you. That's number one. Number two is the thing that you keyed into, which I, after the fact, I actually chuckle about it and I realize this when we were shooting the movie, I could not have made this movie as a novice filmmaker. If I hadn't done all those other movies with all those elaborate camera moves, I wouldn't have the tools to actually know how to do this because this actually turned out to be maybe from a technical standpoint, the hardest movie I've ever made. Well, it's so fascinating, again, as I thought about this, like, it puts so much of an onus, obviously, on staging, on where you're putting things, where you're putting your actors and also putting a lot of weight on your actors who are kind of like framing themselves through the film.

I really enjoy, like, you know, again, we haven't really summed up the film, but like, in essence, it is this one shot, most of it on a room, but through ages, through thousands of years, literally. And it definitely tells the story of a family, but also several families. But keying in on Robin and Tom's story, that first shot of them, as I recall, when we see them very young, you kind of make a point of like letting them walk close to the camera. It seems like to say, like, we got you. We solved this. They are young and you will buy this. We figured out how to do it. Was that part in your brain a little bit?

well yes and no I mean but exactly I mean and and and it was it was how I would have staged the scene in any other what we'll call normal movie with editing if you will and and other things that are our tools of the language but yeah and the thing that's in the and the thing that makes it really work is the fact that the the actors absolutely can walk into their own close-up when it's necessary. Right. And when it's not necessary, they don't. And so it's, it, you know, on the surface, it might sound like, well, wait a minute, are you just, are you just, um, um, filming a stage performance? No, because you can't walk into a closeup in the theater, right? Right.

Right. So it's very much cinematic. 100%. It's also fascinating. Look, it's for folks like me to look at the body of a career and see themes that recur. But you can't deny the theme of time throughout your work and of regret and of missed opportunities. I mean, this goes back for me. You know, you think of it's a wonderful life. It all goes back to George Bailey and like making those compromises and kind of missing life or or finding life. And that's the story that's recurred in like, you know, back to the future through here. And, you know, I could also cite time obviously. being very important to a Christmas Carol, contact so many of your films. Well, is that something you're, sorry, go ahead. The novel, Christmas Carol, I think, is one of the first time travel novels ever written. Right. And it's a wonderful life is obviously a time travel, time travel story.

I think the reason that I gravitate toward it is two reasons. One, I think the actual making of a movie, no matter what it is, is time shifting. that's what movies do they tell stories they sell they they tell stories by um moving the audience through time as a matter of fact when you're editing on a editing machine it's called a timeline is the the cursor moves through a timeline and and and so that's number one number two um movies do it better than any other form. A story that moves the audience through time is, even if it's just a period movie and only stays in like, say, 1750, movies do that better than any other art form.

That's why they are so, that's why I think I gravitate toward these stories because they're just something that movies can do wonderfully. This episode is brought to you by Square. You're not just running a restaurant, you're building something big. And Square's there for all of it. Giving your customers more ways to order, whether that's in-person with Square kiosk, or online. Instant access to your sales, plus the funding you need to go even bigger. And real-time insights so you know what's working, what's not, and what's next.

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And for those that don't know, you know, Alan Silvestri, your DP, like, you keep the company very consistent. So this is a big reunion, Eric Roth, of course. Just talk to me a little bit about, like, again, speaking of time, the beauty of kind of going on this journey and revisiting these folks years later and what it was like to kind of get the gang back together. Well, Robin always said it the best. Hey, we're getting the band back together. Yeah. And that's kind of like what we were doing. But we're playing a different song.

Right. So we're getting the band back together, but we're not playing the oldie. We're playing the new material. So that's sort of the way I would look at it. But it was fun working with everybody because we, you know, we just know how we all work. And it's great to work with people who you love to work with. And they know how I think and I know how they think. And it's a wonderful shorthand.

That's why I keep all those people behind the camera close to me because it just, it's just, lovely to be able to work with people who are really good at what they do and you have a shorthand and you can just move along quickly. If you'll indulge me going back, I mean, you're one of the few filmmakers. I can probably say that I've literally seen every piece of their work and multiple times probably. I guess romancing the stone would be a turning point for you. Is that the one that it was a box office success? So it earned you kind of like the right to get back to the future done. But one thing I read that I was surprised by, is it true that? a cut of romancing the stone actually lost you a job that you lost cocoon because of the

well yes and no it wasn't a cut of the movie because it was actually it was actually kind of a sadder story than that it was because um um the for whatever reason the the people in the production department of 20th century fox back in those days were very they did didn't like the movie we were making. They didn't like Michael producing it, the way he was producing it. They didn't like that we were, we were down in Mexico, in their opinion, just doing whatever we wanted to do, you know. Um, so there, for whatever reason, they spoke very badly about the production. And, um, and I, and I, and I, and unfairly. And I think that and, and they, and they, and they, and, um, the producer of cocoon was Dick Zanick, who used to run 20th Century Fox and knew all these people.

And now, and they went to Universal and made a bunch of wonderful movies and came back. And they frightened him. Got it. And he, and he, and then, and then, of course, he made this change before he saw my movie. Got it. And then he was very regretful for that. I'd imagine, yeah. But we made up, you know.

So, I mean, and it all worked out okay. But, yeah, I did a lot of work on cocoon. And here's the other thing that was great about. That's, I hired Kenner for Alston, who was for many years that all individuals that we met for the first time on my prep of cocoon. So that was like a great plus to have actually been involved with the prep of that movie and then be able to hook up with someone who was able to, like, do so much for all these movies that I made after that.

Back to the Future probably comes up on this podcast as much as any film ever. And many, including me, kind of call it a perfect movie. Like, on one hand, I can count movies that are just that work on every conceivable level. You obviously have pride in it. But, like, when you look at it, like, are there things in it that you say, oh, I could have done that better? There are flaws. Or what do you see when you see that movie?

Oh, yeah, no, you say that on every movie. I mean, you know, I mean, but that's it. But, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, I think I would, I think it would, I mean, if I actually watched one of my movies and said, absolute perfection. Nailed it. You know what I, what would I, what do I do then? I'd have to just be canonized, right? I mean, it would, I would, I would, I would, I would, I would, I would, I would, I would, I would, I would, I would, right.

So, uh, of course there are flaws, but, you know, I can look at. Back to the Future and go, yeah, it's pretty good. It's pretty good. Also, one thing I love, and I don't know if this was just happenstance of how it developed, when you look at that trilogy of films, I can't think of a trilogy where all three films are so different from each other. The second film is like, Back to the Future on some kind of drug. It's on cocaine or something.

It's manic. And the third one is like wholesome and an homage and a love story. I guess how much of that was on your mind or how much of it was just like, It happened that line. Well, I mean, I'm sure, well, I, most of, anyone who's a back to the future fan knows the story that Bob and I wrote one giant sequel. Right. Which we then split in half.

So the original movie that we wrote was going to be three hours long and it was going to going to be what if you put part two and part three together that would have been the so it would have gone to the dark side and then it would have like moved back to the wholesome side again so but but it was fun that we did three of them because it had it has a good trilogy trilogy um uh energy you know that you know a three act a three act trilogy drama to it yeah i love that you and bob have protected it so fiercely over the years. Obviously, there's the musical, but you've never entertained seriously,

as far as I've known, a sequel, a prequel. We always felt that this was enough and that it had to just live the way, you know, live with it being the three movies. And the musical is more of a companion to the movies than a remake of the movie or a, you know,

it's sort of like another, it's a whole other thing. Right. And it's just the celebration of the movie, basically. So have you had to actively, though, defend it? Because I would imagine from, like, Universal's perspective, that's like leaving so much money on the table for them. Do they come to you and beg you every couple of years like? Every six months.

No, no, something. No, that's an exaggeration. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Can't, you know, is there anything we can figure out to do here? Isn't there anything we can do? And, you know, we have to say, well, what? You know, there are different things that might work, something like that, you know, but to remake the movie or to suggest that there's a back to the future for it, you know, it just isn't in the cards.

Right. Good for you. Good for you. We're happy with the trilogy. Who Frame Roger Rabbit was a formative film for me. I don't know how you got a PG on that film in retrospect. Jessica Rabbit, there's a, I mean, the dip, Judge Doom. It's a pretty, I mean, it's a film for all ages, but it, it, you probably are responsible for some psychiatric bills for some children, I would imagine. There's some damage in a good way. Maybe. I, you know, but I, when I, when I made that, what we, look, the good news was, it was that we were, we got, we were, we were able to make it, um, um, right at the time when Disney

was ready to rebuild itself. Right. Well, we were there when the new regime came in and they were full of energy and they wanted to do. And then I kept saying, and I sincerely say this and I do believe this. And I say, I'm making Roger Rabbit the way I believe Walt Disney would have made it. And the reason I say that is because Walt Disney never made any of his movies for children. He always made them for adults. and that's what I decided to do with Roger Rabbit

and the thing that you have to understand is, and this was funny because one time we did a test preview with just moms and kids. Right. And I was terrified because I didn't, you know, these kids were like five and six years old. They absolutely were riveted to the movie. And I realized that, you know, the thing is,

kids get everything. they understand you know they they get it you know you don't have to i think the thing that i think the thing that i think the thing that wal disney never did was he never talked down to the children in his movies he treated the kids like they were adults did you ever talk to like uh nicholson or polanski or any of the chinatown folks about it's i mean it's obviously a riff on natatown at the time i saw her up price of Chinatown, but was that conversation ever had? Not about, I've spoken to those guys, but I've never, we've never talked about, we've never

talked about, uh, uh, Roger Rabbit, but you're 100% right. It was completely inspired by Chinatown. Completely. Yeah. Jack came up in my research a few times as someone you've tried to work with. Is that true? You've, you've approached them a couple times. Yeah, I'd try to, you know, Yeah, I'd offer them things now and then, but, you know, I never actually, I offered, I actually, actually offered the Bob Hoskins role to Paul Newman. And he was insulted. He was insulted. He was insulted by the offer because, I mean, he just said, what, you want me to do a movie where I'm playing against a cartoon rabbit? He didn't like, he didn't, he didn't like it at all.

Amazing. Well, you got the right guy for the job. I mean, I remember talking to you many years ago, probably 12, 15 years ago about Roger Rabbit, and I asked you about the sequel question. And at the time, you told me that there was actually the original writers had written a sequel that you were really excited about. Yeah, no, there's a good script sitting at Disney. But here's the thing.

Here's what you have to know. And you know this. The current Disney would never make Roger Rabbit today. Yeah. So they can't make a movie with Jessica in it. Right. So there's very little, so the Seaman and Price sequel script isn't ever going to see the light of day as good as it is. Really?

Because, I mean, look what they did to Jessica at the theme park. They trust her up in a trench coat, you know. Can't show it. Exactly. Was Eddie Valiant in there? Obviously, we lost the great Bob Hoskins. Was there a way to include him? Well, yeah.

Well, when the sequel was written, Bob Hosk, Eddie Valiant was a lot of the, a lot of the story was that Eddie was no longer with us, but he would show up as a ghost in certain, certain times. So, but now we would have to, I don't know, I guess we wouldn't be able to do it now, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Okay, flights on Air Canada. Oh, wow. Mayorka, that's new. Oh, nice. But Vienna is a classic Mozart, palaces and schnitzel.

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at 1-866-531-2,600 to speak to an advisor free of charge. I mentioned early on Death Becomes a very soft spot for, I think it's such a brilliant script from David Kep and direction, performances, it's fantastic. Talk about like, it's also a manic film. It's a, it's a, it's a, wired movie. And I think of like Bruce Willis's performance. I feel like they're like double and triple takes from him as if he's in a Looney Tunes cartoon. Was that kind of like your directive to your actors? Like, oh yeah. And Bruce and Bruce, I mean, I would, so I would show up, I would show up on the set and Bruce was already there in it, you know, confounding out of his trailer. I said,

Bruce, he said, I said, you're here already. You don't work until noon. He goes, I've been here since five o'clock. I said, you know, what's going? I said, I'm just excited. I'm just excited. And Bruce was just loving the performance that he was doing. And so I just ran with it. You know, I mean, I just thought it was fantastic. He loved, he loved, I mean, look, in his heart, he loves doing comedy more than anything. Right. Right. Yeah. That scene between him and Merrill and and Sidney Pollock is an all-timer. Like, it's just, it's just the best. It's the best. It's the best. Going chronologically, I've rewatched your acceptance speech for Best Director for Forrest Gump, which, I mean, that's always going to be an emotional moment, but you received it from your mentor and friend, Stephen Spielberg, amazing. Was there ever any, like, ever a friendly rivalry with Steve?

I mean, you guys. No, here's the wonderful thing. Here's the wonderful thing about my, Steve and I, we know that we love each other's work, and we both know. we couldn't make any of the movies that we make if that makes any sense. I couldn't make the movies that he made and he couldn't make the movies that I made. And so there's never been a rivalry. It's always been, we're on our separate tracks and we appreciate everything. And I guess that's what makes our friendship last so long.

I don't know. I could see with all due, I mean, like, I could see Roberts, Zemeckas, Indiana Jones. I could, I, there are, there are few in there. It would be different. It would be different. Yeah. Okay. Speaking of Indiana Jones, I think of Harrison Ford, you cast against type and what lies beneath another film that I positively love. It seems like you were part of the mission statement there was rifting off of Hitchcock. Like, what would Hitchcock do in this scenario? Well, yeah, of course. Absolutely. And not, not, yeah, definitely, definitely doing it in a Hitchcock style. That was the fun of it. Yeah. Was there any difficulty at the time casting Harrison from from his perspective or

the studio? Because we'd never seen him up until then. Oh, no. He was all in. He was, he was, he was, oh no, he was, he was there. He had no, he wanted to do it. Absolutely. I would imagine like any, you know, a, you know, cinephile you grew up with Hitchcock. There have been all these talks of, of, and it's happened a few times of remakes. Have you ever ever entertained an idea for, no, no, no, no, I want to remake, you know, no no no I'm good I'm good I don't want to that's again a fool's errand why do that why invite that comparison yeah okay some rumor control there are a few things I came across in research it said that George Lucas came to you and a couple other filmmakers when it was time to make

episode one the phantom menace did he come to you I can't maybe I maybe I don't remember I don't maybe I don't remember I really don't me he might have he might have I but it was it would have been such a quick and fleeting conversation that I I don't remember it as anything that was a serious conversation about it let me put it that way got it um there was briefly talked up again talk about crazy things to remake but Wizard of Oz did you consider I was asked to make the Wizard of Oz way way back as soon as um um um um um um um um um um I'm Warner Brothers got the rights to that, to that title. And I just, I just said, I, I don't know, I said, I don't, I don't, I don't how to, I don't know how to take, I don't know how to improve that movie, you know. Yeah, what are you trying to do to me? Like, seriously. There have been at least a couple reported comic book, uh, films he said no to, Superman.

I think he told me that actually won Superman and the Flash in recent years. Are there more I could count on one or two hands that you've said no to? No, well, yeah, I don't think you're going to, I don't think my name's going to come up in any comic book, any comic book conversations, you know, coming up. Why is that? Um, I, I, I don't know. I'm, um, I think, I think the genre has been, um, I think the genre has been, you know, squeezed, it's squeezed out, you know. Yeah. You know, I don't, I don't think, I think it's, it just kind of doesn't interest me. Does it feel like, I mean, obviously, I know you said it in, I listen to your Great Marin conversation, like the films you've made back in the day through now, like these movies are barely made now.

And comic book movies, I think, I like a lot of them. I'll say that. But they have taken up the space of mass entertainment, action, adventure, fantasy, original. IP. Is that, is that your sentiment right now? Well, yeah. I mean, yeah. I mean, yes, of course, because, you know, they're marketable. So they make them because, you know, they're pre-sold titles. So, and that's why when I was saying that on the, on the, on the, on the Mark Merrim podcast, the reason that my movies that I made in my whole career, I mean, here is a miracle that it got made. It's an absolute miracle. And I am, I am, I am.

And, you know, I am just so grateful that it got, it got produced. But all my movies would not be made today because they're not pre-sold titles. They're not, they're unique. So where does that put you now as a filmmaker who's still pushing and wants to be creative? When something like here with Hanks and Robin, you call a miracle, that's, that's scary to me, that Robert Zemeckis, Tom Hanks, Robin, that's a struggle to get made. Yeah, it's terrifying, but it's the truth. But it's terrifying.

So how do you climb that mountain again? Because, well, for better, for worse, you just have to do it because... Right. What's the alternative? Yeah. There's nothing else that I can. I don't know what else I'm supposed to do because I've, I think that I think the real honest answer to your question is I can only do what I've done on all the movies I've ever made,

which is I fall in love with an idea for a movie. I just have to do whatever I can to get it made and see what happens. That's all I can do. What's the best script sitting on your shelf unproduced that if you could greenlight anything right now, you would do? I don't have any. I don't have any. I've been, oh, I know, I've always been, I don't have one sitting there. I don't have one sitting there. that maybe the Roger Rabbit sequel. That might be the only one. But other than that, I've been fortunate enough

to get the movies that I really, really love off the ground. I'll end with this. You know, you've accomplished so much. Is there a genre that you haven't tackled? Is there an actor you haven't worked with? I don't know if you think that way,

but we've never seen the Robertsomechus full-on musical. There are innumerable amazing actors out there. What would you like to tackle before all said and done? Yeah, well, you know, okay, well, you know, I would like to do the back to the future, the musical. As a film. Yeah. Just like Brooks did the, the producers. I would love to do that.

I think that would be great. Robert, how, have you tried or where are we? Yeah, I would try. Well, you know, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I floated that out to the folks at universal, they don't get it. So nothing I can do. Okay, we're going to put it out into the universe and try and make that happen for you. Sir, honestly, again, thank you for the time and thank you for all these films. They mean so much to me. And congratulations on here. It's great to see you pushing and working with the best in the business and making great work still. I appreciate it.

Thank you so much. Thanks. Have a good one today. Thank you again. Thank you. And so ends another edition of Happy, Sad, Confused. Remember to review, write, and subscribe to this show on iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm a big podcast person. I'm Daisy Ridley, and I definitely wasn't pressured to do this by Josh. American history is full of infamous tales that continue to captivate audiences, decades or even hundreds of years after they happened. On the infamous America podcast, you'll hear the true stories of the Salem Witch Trials

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