Happy Sad Confused - Ron Howard

Episode Date: November 23, 2015

Wonderful filmmaker Ron Howard joins Josh this week to talk about his latest ambitious tense drama film In the Heart of the Sea, going from being an actor in The Andy Griffith Show & Happy Days to directing, taking a risk as a filmmaker with Apollo 13, and Willow. Have a Happy/Sad/Confused Thanksgiving! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Hey guys, welcome to another edition of Happy Sad Confused. I'm Josh Horowitz. This is a podcast. You listen with your ears. You use your mind to engage it. And that's pretty much the only body parts you need to employ while listening to this podcast. Oh, really? You think so, Sammy?

Yeah, you need your heart to absorb it. Yeah. We're going to touch you today in just the right spot in your heart because we have a lovely conversation with a great filmmaker. Ron Howard is the guest on this week's Happy Second Fused, continuing our very successful run of fantastic. filmmakers this fall following in the heels of Danny Boyle and Guillermo da Toro. Ron Howard. Ron Howard means a lot to me, Sandman.

Ron Howard is huge. This is also, as I note in the conversation, this is Happy Sack Confused History, first father-daughter combo ever on the Happy Sank Infused podcast. Bryce was a guest. Couldn't have been better. And Ron is great. I mean, he's got one of those

crazy nice reputations, like and justifiably so. He's just absurdly well adjusted for somebody that grew up, like, you know, was a famous person from the time he was probably 10 on Andy Griffith and then seamlessly transferred into a successful directing career. And narrating career? Arrested development. We didn't even get into Arrested Development.

I regret that so much, but it was still fun to, like, get into a bunch of movies. I mean, particularly, like, when I was growing up, like, there was like that, I don't know, there's a lot of Willow talk on this episode, which I do not apologize for. there's actually Ron posted a he insisted on taking a photo that he has since posted on Twitter of me and him and the Willow comic book I have hanging over my desk So I'm looking at it

It's real And now he signed it along with Val Kilmer So yes I mean but yeah Willow and back draft and of course Apollo 13 Going way back night shift I mean beautiful mind When I think of Ron I think of those like those earlier films That really hit me in the right time

But yes, he's still, what's cool about him is he has such a diverse resume. Rush was his last film, which was really good starring Chris Hemsworth. And he's got another film with Chris Hemsworth. He just directed called In the Heart of the Sea, which is this like very ambitious, intense drama based on the story that inspired Moby Dick. So a real spectacle as we talk about. It's the kind of film you want to see on the big screen because it's just big in every way. He vows, I didn't see it in 3D, but he says the 3D conversion. is awesome and um i'm i'm gonna say it sounds like an i max 3d movie yeah i think it's i think it's one

if you're if you're interested at all i think this is the one to see on the big screen and um hamsworth of course always good really good ensemble killing murphy who's always great etc that opens i just i'm pretty sure it's killian wow i mean i'm definitely wrong but i don't definitely but i'm 92% sure um but yeah it opens i believe december 11th so this is an early sneak peak early tease of that one. So plan to check out Ron's latest. As I said, we talk about a lot of stuff, cover a lot of his career on this. And it's a good one. It was very exciting when Ron Howard came in, because obviously everybody here is a fan. And little behind the scenes, he like stuck around for a couple hours to do interviews in one of the rooms here. So just to give a little

context, Josh has this sign on his door that looks like what a teenager writes to his parents. That's how I write. That's my right. That's my hand. So it's like literally like scribble like shooting don't come in here but then the room that Ron was in Had a printed reserved to sign on it to talk to someone. I need to know what I'm just saying like you knew he was really VIP in there because I thought we took the trouble of printing something out Yeah, I thought you did it's big time. What can I say? Yeah Well one day if maybe if you direct 15 very successful films you're going to get a print out I don't know I could never inspire to a printed sign But no, really thrilled that we knocked that one off the list. He was definitely somebody that I'd always wanted to talk to at length.

And he's already got another film in the can, the third in the Dan Brown trilogy, another Tom Hanks collaboration. I'm sure that's going to make hundreds of millions of dollars. And also, I mean, imagine entertainment he created. I mean, there was so much more we could have addressed, but we did cover a lot. In part two. You know, you never know. I haven't decided yet. Like, as you may or may not have noticed, we haven't had a returning guests yet.

It's been about probably a year, 18 months since we started the show. And I've just, you know, right now I don't want to do returning guests just because there's so many people. And it feels like. Yeah, but someone like a Ron Howard could warrant a returning. Well, I mean, of course. Like, I, there's a thousand more things. I mean, I would talk to Woody Allen five more times. And be like, I want to come back on.

And you're like, sorry, Ron. It's going to be a big decision. We only do one time only on Happy Side Confused. Well, that's the, oh, you go, look, two of my touchstones for the podcast, a podcast that I enjoy in the interview space, go different. routes you have you have your mark marron who does does not do returning guests although now he does them sometimes on the intros he does like people calling in but then you do nerdist and they'll just do them six seven times so i don't know you for now in the marron camp carve your own path exactly exactly be your own man um i'm trying uh let's see what else to cover um if you haven't

checked it out we did a bunch of uh coverage on mocking jay of course which is now out in theaters making a gazillion dollars got a chance to catch up with the cast one more time before it all ended. And it was a crazy night. If you haven't happened to see the video we posted or the many photos that emerged, I did, their last red carpet was in New York. And I had the silly idea to offer them shots of bourbon, Kentucky bourbon, in honor Jessica, rather Jennifer and Josh are both from Kentucky to do shots.

So what ended up happening was I did basically about eight or nine shots, depending on how you count them with the cast. Eight and a half. Yeah, eight and a half in the course of about 90 minutes. And I'm still alive, guys. I really, honestly, when I saw this happening, I really thought you weren't going to make it. It's a miracle because, okay, first of all, it's adrenaline. Let's just say, drink responsibly, guys, drink of year of age.

Do not drink to excess. Don't do as I do because it was an anomaly. I have no tolerance. I get drunk on like two glasses of wine. I'm pure lightweight. So I don't know what happened, but it was fine. I did not get sick. I saw you the next day

and you were like, okay. I had a delicious bagel the next morning. As much as I always am. But the video is pretty special. It's really funny. It's only, yeah, I'm playing it up a little bit, but not that much. No, you're not playing it up at all. It is amazing.

Everyone watch it. And my favorite part of this whole thing is how other outlets have picked it up and they're calling Josh the silly reporter in the party hat. There was a great story because we were right next to the foot. photographer pen of like you know the photographers and they all were bunched together and they were right next to us so they were thrilled when they saw what I was doing on the carpet they had a great vantage point and there was I think a story in like the daily mirror online that had the whole narrative of the night it was like first Josh Hutcherson did a shot and then it was like the last photo was like Liam Hemsworth sniffed the shot suspiciously as the reporter by now wearing a party hat donning a silly party yeah so watch the video it's on MTV's YouTube page I'm not sure if I'm proud of it, but it's something that's... I don't know if you should be proud of it, but everyone should watch it. You should watch it, just to see what liquor can do to a man.

It is. Oh, it's just the progression of it. Just watch his eyes. Oh, my God. Not much more to say, except if you're hearing this before Thanksgiving, have a great Thanksgiving. Yeah. What are you doing for this thing? I'm going to do a little bit with the fam, a little bit with the in-laws. We mix it up a little bit.

There'll be turkey consumed. Too much pie. Hoping for some pumpkin pie. I'm a pumpkin enthusiast. Oh, yeah, big time. What's your Thanksgiving dish of choice? Great question. Thank you. Stuffing. Yeah. I think I go stuffing. I don't like mushrooms and sometimes something has mushrooms in it. So you can pick them out. They're big. No, no, no, no. What are you

talking about? I'm not going to, it's infected the whole thing. It's over. Yeah, but they don't really taste like anything. Well, it's a psychological problem. I understand. That's one of many. One of many. One of my top 50 psychological problems. But Thanksgiving is my favorite meal. So I am very excited. I feel like Thanksgiving's for lightweights. I eat like that like every day. Like I mean, I don't need like Thanksgiving as an excuse to eat like to an absurd level. No, but there have been thanksgivings in my life where, and my, some of my friends know those about me where I've vomited. Right.

And then just got right back in the game. What time do you start your Thanksgiving meal? Are you like to? Well, it used to be like a solid probably six, six 30. Right. Now there's a bunch of little kids in my family. Screwed everything up. Yeah. eating at like 4.30. It's interesting.

Are your family similar in mind that we don't eat super early, but my in-laws, like, they tend to have, like, their holiday meals and it starts at like one o'clock. And I'm like, what's happening? I'm sleeping by 5 o'clock then. Exactly. Okay. This is why you're welcome on the intro. That's, I think, all there is to say, except, again, have a great holiday, guys.

We'll see on the other side and enjoy this conversation with one of the best directors in the business. Simply put, Ron Howard. Did it is Nope Never again Never again This is a historic moment

This is a historic moment For this podcast This is the first father-daughter combo To ever actually have appeared on Happy Side Confused Is that right Bryce was here A lot of fun Well she is fun

She is fun And I'm Am I safe to Am I walking into any I was going to say Propellers there Well, yes, she did not betray any confidences that I know of, and it was a very pleasant chat. And, no, I'm honestly, it's thrilling to have you here.

I'm such a fan of your work, and this new film is a hell of an accomplishment. It's one of those movies where I'm watching it, and it's like, how does one even, you know, it just boggles of mind how one even begins to tackle something of this magnitude and scale and all of it. Well, thank you. You know, interesting thing happened just last week. we finished the movie it was supposed to go out last March

and then we had our test screenings and then Warner Brothers decided we don't have a movie at Christmas let's put it out at Christmas audiences respond to this movie well let's try it so that delay is unusual for me

my editor Dan Hanley and I saw the movie again last week because we were reviewing the 3D print and which was really I'm so glad we took the time to do that. It's a great way.

If you like 3D, it's actually a really good way to experience the movie. I was very excited about it creatively. But we looked at each other having some distance on it, you know, and said, how do we do that? Because, you know, from a standpoint of the total challenge, the technical, the physical, the sort of the mental, the challenge for the actors, the various. themes because it's pretty dense. It's a simple story, overarching story, and then underneath there are these themes which are, I think, very cool and interesting and emotional, but you know, a little complicated. So I think it's the most challenging movie that I've ever directed. That's saying something we can get your body of work. I mean, is there a correlation

in your mind? I was wondering this when I was watching it, like, it's a hell of a journey for an audience to go through. I mean, it's, you're there with these guys in this, in a hell of a predicament. Are you, as the fire drill goes off, of course I have the director of back draft to save me, so it's okay. We'll soldier through. Go for the stairs. Is that what you were?

And move quick. That fire does not fool around. That's what I learned. Well, I was going to say, though, like, is there a correlation in your mind between the subject matter and your own enjoyment of the process? Because this seems to be maybe a tough headspace for an actor to be in or a film maker we talked a little bit about the challenges of the film are you enjoying yourself as much on something like this as parenthood or dilemma something a little lighter in its scope there it's it's a

it's a different kind of enjoyment you know and I and I had the back-to-back movies rush which was its own particular challenge and a kind of an adventure and then this one which was you know different again but also a chance for me to really immerse myself in a very physical world the world I don't know that much about with really a combination of interesting character work, which I do love, and then real logistical, cinematic filmmaking challenges, which I also appreciated. So it's incredibly gratifying to make a movie like this. Again, I'll go back to Apollo 13 as a sort of a life experience or backdraft, you mentioned. You make those kinds of movies, and you really feel like you've had an experience you'll never, ever forget.

Frost Nixon, Beautiful Mind, Parenthood, equally significant to me, and really focused because it's all about probably the thing that I love the most, which is characters giving us surprising, relatable, interesting performances, and conveying something to an audience. And so they're just really two different kinds of challenges, but it's been a great few years with rush into in the heart of the sea. And I, you know, coincidentally, or not so coincidentally, Chris Hemsworth's involved in both and at the center of both.

But, you know, it's been, I'm really grateful to have had both those experiences. When you talk about Hemsworth, who I'm such a fan of both on a professional and personal level, there's not a nicer guy out there. And you, you know, you've worked with many actors repeatedly, and as you mentioned, Chris, twice in a row. And I feel what's unique about this collaboration with Chris is maybe you're seeing something that other people aren't seeing in him. You know, we're used to seeing him, you know, obviously the superhero films, et cetera. But these are leading a man roles, but these are also character roles. These are, these are interesting flawed guys.

Well, he really won the role in Rush with his audition. So I had met him. I found him to be very charismatic in both Star Trek. and then again in Thor had no idea about his range and he submitted this audition of very interesting

revealing complicated kind of James Hunt moment from the script of Rush excellent accent nailed it and Peter Morgan who wrote Rush and is very discerning

and I just looked and said there's our James Hunt so I know know him, you know, as a fan, yes, I've seen him in these big giant popcorn movies and he's really effective. But, you know, I know him as the guy who proved to me he's got the chops to be James Hunt, then really delivered and then turned around and once again offered a very different kind of character, but Doug Deep did everything he had to do physically and mentally and creatively to take us on this journey with his character and in the heart of the

sea, which is, you know, the most complex of the journeys of any of the characters who go through the film. The, again, talking about some of the hardships of a film like this, I mean, everybody knows, if you're a film fan, legends of all these films that have been made on water. This is like as hard as you get. It's just there's so many factors that are out of your control, and it's just, it's just downright, tough filmmaking. You've, on the flip side, like you, we talked about backdraft, which is such a great

film. I mean, it's a film that, I mean, did you find? there were analogies to make you're dealing with two different elemental forces kind of out of your control when i when i got into it i i i began to draw those comparisons between backdraft also apollo 13 with the weightlessness which we shot in camera and um and really sort of you know created an environment um for the actors that you know allowed the allowed them to to to, I don't know, to just be as authentic and as in the moment as possible. And we certainly had that with the ocean.

Now, we were also on stages. We were on tanks. We had every trick to dump tanks pouring gallons, thousands of gallons of water on them and hoses and all of that stuff. For anything that was really dangerous, like the whale attack, fire on board, you know, a storm. We had to do that stunt work on, you know, in a controlled environment. everything else we did we did out in the ocean and yeah it was difficult but you know and there were storms that came and we had to get the hell out of there and and evacuate at one point and you know and so it was arduous but it you know it did something important which it offered this opportunity

of real intimacy and connection with the reality of the story yeah that benefited the actors and And I think it also imposed a style of shooting, which is very intimate, right in the boats with them, in the real environment, capturing what it is that they're going through, whether that's action or whether it's emotional. Anybody that's a fan or student of your work knows, I mean, you from the beginning have defied, you know, being put in a box. You've, like, pretty much done every conceivable genre. I'm trying to rack my brain for, like, okay, I guess there's not a musical in there yet.

And not full on horror. Not full on horror. A couple of scary moments. You haven't done sci-fi, I guess, since maybe cocoon, we consider that. But you've never gone to, like, hard sci-fi. No, not yet. But how much of that was conscious? How much does that just reflect, like, your interest as a fan, as a filmmaker?

Because you're in a rare spot. Not many people can say they have the kind of varied resume you have. Well, you know, as an actor, as a child actor and on into my early adulthood, I was on the TV series, whether it was the Andy Griffith show or then a show with Henry Fonda. You were an actor? Smith family. and then happy days. So from 1960 when I was six years old to 1980 when I was 26 years old,

I was under contract and doing a television series 17 and a half out of those 20 years. So I would go do movies. I even began directing. But, you know, everything took a backseat to TV, which especially in those decades, it was all about repeating basically the same set of ideas and scenes and, you know, moments that audiences were looking for over and over and over again and repackaging them.

So when I realized I was going to have a career as a director, I knew that comedy was going to be the sort of the easiest path for me, audiences and collaborators and studios would accept that most readily. But I loved all kinds of movies. And I did not want to be typecast as a director. So early in my career, I slowly, but surely, without being so shocking that I would, you know, like, you know, doom a movie to being falsely judged based on, you know, on some kind of conscious career move on my part.

Yeah. But I started moving toward, you know, other genres and other tones. It was really when I did Apollo 13, which was based on real events that had, that scared me. I thought it might limit my imagination, my ability to create. And in fact, I was wrong. it was a great box to be in and to a set of themes and ideas, many of which were so strange and so unlikely that you wouldn't put them in,

you wouldn't put it in fiction because no one would buy it. It's part of the power of a true story is that it's extreme beyond what you can imagine people can deal with and endure. So that was very liberating for me. And really the response, you know, that was nominated for a lot of, Academy Awards and reviews were great and I suddenly was getting a lot of different kinds of scripts coming my way and other opportunities, other kinds of creative collaborations with great actors. And from that point forward, I stopped worrying about showcasing myself. And I just

began to choose movies that I was interested in and movies that I hoped, you know, would feel original and for audiences, movies that I would want to see. Sure. That didn't, scene, look, sound like, you know, everything else that was out there. Well, and there's no greater lesson than to see, like, your greatest, you know, critical success, obviously the one that won the Oscar, A Beautiful Mind, on paper is not the movie that should be the box office and critical success that it was. Most of my, of my really commercial movies outside of maybe Da Vinci Code and The Grinch were movies that were really long shots, even movies that made the top 10 in the box office

their year or the top 20 were really didn't on paper seem like they were very commercial and and uh so i don't think about that too much i think about whether i believe the story has something for for for an audience i like i like trying to make movies for for a broad audience that appeals to me it's kind of my sensibility anyway right um brian grazer my partner and imagine has been for almost 30 years. He's much better at marketing. He has, he's great with concepts. He understands.

You know, Splash was his idea for a movie. You know, he, so was eight mile. I mean, he just has. He can see the poster. He can see the, yeah. And, you know, he still wants to have, you know, themes that mean something and resonate and ideas that, that make a point and so forth. But he, he's greater sort of an intuition about that.

I have a sense of whether a story can surprise an audience, whether it has reach, whether, you know, I can create, I can bring something of myself to a movie that has a chance maybe to surprise people a little bit. I think that's what I really look for. I'm curious, what was the biggest, and I don't mean disagreement in a way of like a shouting match, but in terms of like that conversation you were just talking about where maybe Brian didn't see the commercial. viability. Maybe he supported your vision but said, Ron, buddy, this is never going to sell any tickets. That must have happened at various points. Has there been one film that was contentious in that way? You know, unfortunately, he's been right more than he's wrong. So I can't think of a situation where he said, I don't know, I don't, you know, I wouldn't do, that one's going to be a rough one to market. And then it turned out he was wrong. In fact, there have been

times where I thought that, and he was right. Like, he believed fully in Apollo 13. He believed fully in a beautiful mind as movies that could reach an audience as well as be you know have value you know as as as great stories and uh he you know he was right he's got a he's got a good nose uh for it but but he was always supportive of me and and uh you know he was very supportive of of movies that, you know, like the paper or rush or the missing, which are movies that I'm very, very proud of. And, you know, and they, and they, and they were well reviewed and audiences like them. But they didn't ever, they didn't ever have that kind of broad appeal to break out.

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What role did early on, I mean, one of the first and, at least in probably the fourth or fifth film, maybe third or fourth, was Willow, which hit me at the right time. If you turn to your left, you'll see Ron. I have a Willow comic book, yes. Oh, my. Did you put that for just for me? Do you just bring it in today? I swear to God, that is, and if you look closely, it's autographed by Val. Wow. And he wrote Peck, peck, peck on it, which was the greatest moment in my life. That's great. That is great. Was Lucas, I mean, obviously, Lucas had directed you.

I mean, do you consider him an early mentor, something that really helped to get you off the ground? You know, he's, he's been probably the directorial mentor, along with a couple of people who directed me when I was, when I was young on TV shows, and my own father, who I watched directing theater. Right. But from a standpoint of my growing understanding of like of the power of the medium and what else it could do besides offer great. acting opportunities. Well, that really came from George. My experience, acting for him on American graffiti and seeing the detail and, you know, the way he could create a canvas that just had such density, you know? And then Willow was his idea. And working for him, you know, trying to tell a story that he believed in was, you know, it was kind of like getting a PhD, I thought,

know and my my doctoral prof was a pretty good one pretty good if you'll indulge me in talking a little bit about the process of making that which I know you've talked about before and kind of the same terms you just put in that you know maybe less ownership over that because you are playing in that guy's sandbox in Georgia's amazing imagination but it strikes me especially like and this is stuff that I didn't realize till years later like I you know in recent years I see it and I see it's like oh that's there's a lot of where the rings in there there's a lot of Star Wars archetypes in there.

Was that stuff that you guys talked about in terms of what the reference points were or what you were trying to... The biggest influence was Joseph Campbell. And at one point, Joseph Campbell and his wife, when they were both still alive, actually paid a visit to the ranch, you know, Skywalker Ranch.

And the writer of Willow, Bob Dolman and myself happened to be there working. And we had this fantastic dinner with George and the Campbell's Mr. Mrs. Campbell and Bob Dolman and I wound up telling the story and Joseph Campbell was so

he was getting a huge kick out of it but he kept telling us the roots of the mythology that we were tapping into you didn't even realize that you were tapping into I think George had a better sense than we did and so

you know I definitely was just as Star Wars was was was in Lord of the Rings were you know influenced by by those ideas and those traditions so so was Willow and and yeah Willow is you know probably it's my least personal movie I really was trying to do a job for George he was financing that movie himself and and really doing it like an indie uh which people don't realize even those even the prequel he essentially self-financed I mean I think to a degree yes he did right yeah He's always been a maverick in a lot of ways, and somebody who just, you know, he's a lateral thinker. He just, but it's interesting, and I applied this, what I had observed about George to in the heart of the sea in an important way.

He takes very classic ideas, and then he's able to apply this lateral thinking and say, well, how can we, how, what else? Can we, how do we present this? What else can we do? How do we use movie technology to go deeper, offer audiences more and do the things that, you know, if they could have been done before somebody would have, but they couldn't. Now they can be. And still stay with the essence of the story, the classic nature of the story. So with, in the heart of the sea, I really wanted that. There are a lot of contemporary, subtle contemporary themes that are so relatable about the story.

It surprised me when I read it. Sure. And yet there's also this bedrock kind of classic story of going to sea and nature, you know, turning on the whalers. You know, and these is what attracted Herman Melville to the story of the Essex when he wrote Moby Dick. I think those elements attracted me, but I wanted to present them in as modern a way as I possibly could. So I was borrowing a little bit from George's inspiration about how do you tell a classic story, but make it a modern movie experience for audiences. Did he ever, it wouldn't surprise me to think that he talked to you at some point about

helming a Star Wars movie. Did you talk about the prequels or anything? He did. He did. He didn't necessarily want to direct them. And he told me that he had talked to Zemeckis. He talked to me. He talked to Stephen Spielberg. And he said, I was the third when he spoke to. They'd all said the same thing. George, you should just do it.

This is your baby. Nobody wanted to follow that act, I don't think, at that point. But, you know, he, I mean, that was an honor, but it would have been just too daunting. To use the Moby Dick analogy, do you have your own kind of like white whale of a project that that's eluded you. I mean, there's even news lately of Dark Tower, which keeps cropping up. Is that as close to what you have in terms of something that's alluded to us far? Well, Dark Tower is, you know, is something that we're, it's very promising. It's looking very promising. And I, and while I'm not, I'm not going to be a director

on it. And I couldn't be given schedules and so forth. But, you know, I, you know, I, I'm going to remain a producer with it if it goes. Maybe Mr. McConaughey or not. We don't know. We're hoping, you know. But it's a really strong adaptation and, you know, and it's, we'll see if we finally get it over the goal line and get to make it. It's still the intent to kind of involve TV and film and kind of like overlap and have a little bit of mixed mediums. That remains the ambition.

I mean, it's a lofty one. It's a lofty one, but it also feels like it is of our times. It's like it couldn't have happened 10 years ago, clearly, but it seems like someone's going to make that leap. Why not this? Yeah, I agree. And we still have all those hopes. But I just can't, I want to be careful. I can't, you know, I can't say anything definitive because it's, you know, it doesn't have that green light.

But it has a lot of, a lot of energy, people who care about it, production companies involved that are that are making it a major priority. and I hope it comes together. Are there tough films of your own that are, or rather, are there films of your own that are tough for you to watch at this point in your career, that just for whatever reason, the baggage, the nature of the shoot, mistakes that you look back in retrospect, what are the ones that are tougher for you to reflect on or look at? I don't really watch them.

I don't really watch them. But when I do, if I bump into something on TV and watch a few minutes or if I go back and do a DVD extras. You know, 20th anniversary, re-release or something like that. I'm critical, but I'm kind to myself. And I mostly appreciate what we achieved. And I acknowledge, with a little more perspective, you know, some areas of many, almost all of the movies.

Right. Where, you know, I wish I had. it to do over again. And I think that, I think that's natural. You know, most movies aren't ever finished. They're just finally taken away and release. Right. And, you know, left our own devices.

We could keep tweaking and rethinking. And, you know, most directors could go on almost forever. Yeah. But, you know, there are, I feel, I feel, I feel, more frustration over movies that I I'm really, really proud of, that have a great following now. Right. But they sort of weren't seen on the big screen as much as I would have liked. Is that what's in that?

Is that the missing? Is that the missing would be one of those? The rush definitely would be one of those. Which everybody that saw loved, there just not enough people saw it. Well, a lot of them have seen it now. And I wish they could have really seen it, you know, the way is that it's most effective. And by the way, I mean, here I am marketing in the heart of the sea, but I feel very much the same way about in the heart of the sea.

This is a theater experience. It really is, you know, shaped to be an experience. And especially now, if you're into 3D, it wasn't shot. It was converted, but the conversion technology has gotten to be so good. And I think because we didn't shoot it for 3D, there are actually some things that are a little unusual and kind of cool about the 3D version. So if you're into it, you know, I'd really recommend it. If not, you know, it was designed to be a, you know, a very effective, you know, 2D experience as well.

And you're someone that going back, I mean, I remember, I have vivid memories when I was, God, I must have been probably 15 or 16 at the time when far and away came out. And you shot that, if correct me if I'm wrong, what's 605 millimeter, yeah, which was very rare at the time. I remember seeing it at the Ziegfeld here in New York as it. And it was just glorious to see that kind of scope. I love making that movie. And that was one that our test audiences were just great. I mean, the scores were as high as, like, parenthood or, you know, one of those kind of crowd pleasers. And the critics were so hard on Far and Away.

And, you know, who knows why? I really, I never asked any of them. It was a very earnest film, and maybe that's where, you know, critics tend to be a little bit more of the cynical strife. Maybe. You know, I think they, you know, were always, you know, throw a little extra scrutiny on a big movie star doing an accent. I think they're always, and by the way, you know, and his, Tom worked so hard on that and it was great to work with Tom Cruise. And I thought it did really well with it. And so did everybody in Ireland who was there when we were shooting it.

Yeah. So I think maybe in some ways putting it on 65 and then having it be really, really. almost almost like a romantic road picture. I always felt like it was kind of it was sort of like Frank Kappers that happened one night

with the scope and scale of a John Ford movie, you know, which is kind of a crazy mashup. But audiences went for it if they saw it. And I think with the 65, I think maybe some critics felt like, well, Ron Howard

thinks he's making a very serious epic here. Right, right. And it's, and it's, it is young, it is earnest, it is romantic. So maybe there's a little confusion there or, you know, who knows, but, but, uh, uh, what a fantastic life experience was making. Can I imagine. Yeah. When you, um, we talked a little bit about the kind of the genre hopping that you've done. Um, and I know this isn't how a filmmaker necessarily works. Like, okay, I need to check off the next box. Right. It's my, my music or whatever. That being said, is there like a hankering to do, like to, I mean, is there something that you are a fan of that you're surprised you haven't tackled yet at this point in your career? Well, I would make a particular kind of sort of horror film if it was grounded in sort of some personal journey or experience.

And without giving way too much, just finished shooting Inferno, which is the third of the DaVinci Code. Dan Brown, Tom Hanks has Robert Langdon movies. And because if anyone who's read the book, Langdon himself is in a highly pressurized situation where he's not entirely sure. He doesn't have all of his intellectual tools at his disposal for a set of reasons, which are sort of part of the mystery. But it allowed between Dante and the images of hell and Langdon's sort of struggle to understand the truth of this story and to follow this clue path and the sort of personal nature of what he's going through, it allowed me to sort of stick my toe into horror a little bit. It was really interesting to do.

I can talk about that collaboration, which obviously has been a fruitful one between you and Tom over the years. you know, reference Chris in recent years. I want to talk a little bit about casting over the years because it's a fine art and it can make or break a film and arguably 99% of the time you've gotten it right. Have there been tough arguments, whether with a studio or whatever, like one that almost didn't get through that you had to really push through? Well, when we cast Tom Hanks and Apollo 13, strangely enough, it was a little controversial because he hadn't really, Philadelphia hadn't been seen yet.

nor forrest Gump and Brian Grazer completely believed in Tom for it I did too Jim Lovell had had really wanted

Kevin Costner to do it and they looked a lot like you know in reality the studio wanted us to go in a more straightforward you know action hero

sort of direction and there were you know a number of candidates but Tom was so passionate about the space program and so articulate about this story that I felt like he was not only very capable of being great in it

but would actually be a kind of a creative X factor and I loved what he had to say about it and really wanted to bring him in as a collaborator. Some of also, and I'll be considered that film as much as a star vehicle, it's an ensemble too. When I think of ensembles in your films, I think of Parenthood and the, again, on paper, I wonder how that cast came together because it's just, it's kind of an odd when you think of Robar's, you think of Tom Hulse,

who was just awesome in it, so fantastic at it, Keanu, who we'd never seen in that kind of context, now Joaquin, you know, et cetera. Well, it was a great script by Gans and Mandel to start with. And, and they were really at the height of their power and prestige with, you know, league of their own and splash and nightshed. and you know and just you know and city slickers and movies like that yeah and but the script just spoke to these to these actors but it was a it was a long thoughtful process a lot of people that we wanted to turn it down and and in retrospect it's one of those things where

I'm you know I'm so grateful because just exactly the right group came together but And to all be on the same page, that same tone, which is a fine tone to achieve in something like that. That was really my job. Yeah. Because Gans and Mandel's writing can sometimes come off a little bit like TV. Right. And people can mistake those joke rhythms as suggesting a bigger tone. Yeah.

And because I knew them so well and we'd collaborated so closely on this script, you know, I was able to, you know, I was able to, you know, kept citing, I kept saying this is more Woody Allen. Yes, it's funny, but it's, you know, it's meant to be real. Think of diner, you know, the Barry Levinson movie. And so

I was able to still, we could still get all those jokes and Gans and Maddell, you know, they agreed entirely and were there through the rehearsal process to encourage this sort of thing. And so, you know, people were able to find the

the real rhythms and create their own personal connections to those characters and what they had to say and do and still get those laughs across. Right. But I'm not sure that movie would be made today

because I think that script would be thought to be too dark to be a comedy. And, you know... Not to mention that that's that gray zone of like, what is that a... Today, it's a $40-50 million

movie. That's a comedy. Like, how many of those are made, period. Yeah, well, you wouldn't get that kind of budget to make it. but you know I think it's movie you know yes it's a tough market and and harder than ever to get people to actually go to the movies absolutely and I think that that makes us better it's competitive television is fantastic I love what's going on in TV and imagine our company you know we're right we're right in the middle of all of that and and and loving this this um you know this incredible um resurgence of tv as a as a creative um engine really for for but but i wonder yeah that cannot be applied to film because i wonder if there's any

you know putting the genie back in the bottle of like can we go back now well to a time where there are those mid-range dramas and dromedies etc that our studios can make at least there's there's never there's never any going back and audiences always decide because it is a you know a product of the free market. You know, there's nobody up there pulling strings and saying, here's what they need to see or go to. The audience decides when and how and what they want to see and what they want to see and what they want to support.

But more and more interesting movies are getting made. They may not all be getting done at the studios. In fact, I'm so proud of Warner Brothers, and I'm rooting for in the heart of the sea, not only for my own out of self-interest but also because you know it's a pretty risky movie for a studio to do it's a competitive marketplace

yeah it's an adventure movie it's thrilling it's visual but you know it's not a straight ahead it's not straight ahead escapism it's thought provoking you know which is one of the reason I was very glad they moved it into

the winter in the fall the fourth quarter because I think people's sensibilities sort of expand our brains are more attuned to a little thought in the theater. I think so. But, you know, as a creative person, I'm encouraged by the number of really interesting movies

that are getting made. And all it's doing to the creative community is sort of saying, how much do you love this? Yeah. You know, this is not going to be the movie that you're going to retire on. Right. But, you know, but we can help you get it made. Are you ready to give it two years to this story and this subject? And so as a result, the movies that are getting through, the dramas that are getting made are pretty damn good and personal.

And, you know, I think audiences are going to respond to that. And look, we all want everything to be seen on the big screen. But the important thing is get it out there and get it seen. Well, and it also, I think, raises the game of the blockbusters, too, as we've seen. I mean, arguably one of my favorite movies of the year is I keep talking about it is Mad Max. What George Nords did on that is astounding. and the superhero films. I'm kind of surprised.

Have you been tempted to do one of those? I'm sure they've offered you some at some point. I've had opportunities over the years. And, you know, I really feel like that you can't, you shouldn't make a movie as a kind of an exercise, as an intellectual. The heart and the brain have to be all the way in. I think so. And I was never a comic book guy. I like the movies when I see them for the most part, especially the origin stories.

But I didn't feel. I would be on the set, and never felt that I could be on the set at 3 o'clock in the morning, tired with 10 important decisions to make and that I would intuitively on a gut level know what the story needs. It's a little bit different tone.

And now my daughter Bryce, my daughter Bryce gets it. She loves being in Spider-Man. You know, and it's another tone that she totally, and she adores it. But, you know, Hemsworth understands it and likes it. You know, and understands how you communicate within that kind of tone. But for me, I'd be copycatting and not inventing.

And I think, you know, so I've just never, never said yes to one. Finally, Ron, this is a serious, important note. What's it going to take? I know it's the least personal of your films. Do we kickstart it? Do we revamp it? Do we do a sequel? Willow, the story's not over.

There's more story to be told, Ron. And are you in or are you out? George and I have talked a little bit about it. And now he's kind of pulled away. So that's going to be up to Kathy Kennedy and Lucas. Right. They own that. I would think.

I mean, that's one of the, that's, there is a great love of that franchise. It's great. And Warwick Davis, who has remained a close friend, I'm so proud of the career that he's had. And, you know, and he'd be great to see grown up Willow. No, Val, would do it. You know, Val, Matt Mardigan, you could fall right back in. Vow would be there.

You know, I think, I think we all would. And, you know, maybe you're, maybe you're, maybe you're, maybe you're providing the spark of a movement. My God, there would be no greater legacy that I could give to will that into existence. No pun intended. Ron, congratulations on the film. I mean, as I said, this is a hell of an achievement. Thank you. Thank you.

And it's inspiring to see you continue to push yourself and someone that doesn't need to. You've done enough, but you continue to push yourself. And I'm sure you will for years to come. I know your dad is working as much as anyone in his late 80s. Well, thank you. Look, I'm excited about it. And as long as I can keep finding stories that I'm, you know, sort of eager to share. Yeah.

And, you know, it's that'll keep me, keep me in it. There you go. Okay, I'll see you on the next one. Thanks, Ron. Take care. Before we go, a special message from one of our sponsors, meet the Kalebjian's three generations of coffee roasters. Master Roaster Henry has been roasting coffee in San Francisco for six days a week for over 30 years. His son, Frog is equally passionate about serving you the perfect cup of Joe.

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I'm one of the two hosts. And Hayes-Davenport is probably the host you would like better, but I'm who's here today. Anyway, I made a promise to anyone who listened to one of these little inserts that they would not attach a clip of Hollywood Handbook. Because, of course, I think that it's actually kind of filthy and dirty for Earwolf. to just take someone who is trying to listen to one show and force them to listen to a piece of another show. I just don't think that's... I didn't want them to put a clip in.

I guess what I've learned is they did attach a clip and that I guess it was super funny and it made people want to check out the show because they picked like a really great part from one of our episodes. I wish they hadn't done that. They've promised to let me come in, correct the mistake by just saying,

we're never doing it again. And now when I stop talking, you're not going to hear a clip from a, Hollywood Handbook. You're just going to go either back to your show or you go listen to something else. If you decide to check us out because it's what you want, that's fine, but you're not going to get forced to listen to us. Bye. Laios is where Saracha comes from, which is something that a lot of people haven't heard of yet, but I go wild for that stuff. I put it in oatmeal. I put it on hot dogs. I'll put it on eggs. I put it in cherry pie.

I put it on a fish, and I literally will eat it. Eat the whole thing. And I will eat the whole thing after I put saracha on it. After I put saracha on it. Hollywood Hamburg. Pop. Pop. Pop. Pop. Pop. Pop. Pop. Pop. Pop. Pop. Pop. Pop. Pop. Pop. This has been a Wolfpop production, executive produced by Paul Shear, Adam Sacks, Chris Bannon, and Matt Goorley.

For more information and content, visit wolfpop.com. I'm Amy Nicholson, the film critic for the LA Times. And I'm Paul Shear, an actor, writer, and director. You might know me from the league, Veep, or my non-eligible for Academy Award role in Twisters. We love movies, and we come at them from different perspectives. Yeah, like Amy thinks that, you know, Joe Pesci was miscast in Goodfellas, and I don't. He's too old.

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