Happy Sad Confused - Ron Howard, Vol. II

Episode Date: May 29, 2019

One of the most accomplished filmmakers of our time, Ron Howard, returns to "Happy Sad Confused" to talk about his newest doc, "Pavarotti", plus he reflects on "Solo", and reveals plans to bring "Willow" back! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

D.C. high volume, Batman. The Dark Nights definitive DC comic stories adapted directly for audio for the very first time. Fear, I have to make them afraid. He's got a motorcycle. Get after him or have you shot. What do you mean blow up the building? From this moment on,

none of you are safe. New episodes every Wednesday, wherever you get your podcasts. Today on Happy Set Confused, Director Ron Howard on his new film, Pavarotti, Solo, and a Willow reboot? Hey guys, I'm Josh Harrow. It's welcome to another edition of Happy Set Confused. And yes, as I mentioned, director Ron Howard, one of the most successful film directors

of all time is back on the podcast today to talk about. mixing it up in the best possible way, doing a new documentary about Luciano Pavarotti. The film titled Pavarotti opens next week in theaters, June 7th. Seek it out. Biggest possible screen you can. Best surround sound you can. It's definitely a great theatrical experience. I knew virtually nothing about Pavarotti going into this and found myself very entertained and moved. And it's a really good film. And it's fascinating to see what Ron Howard, who's had one of the most remarkable directing careers ever has done in recent years where he's now mixing it up by doing these music docs.

So that's the main topic of conversation with Ron, but of course I had to talk to him a little bit about Star Wars. He directed solo last year. We kind of did a little post-mortem on that. And yes, we talked a little bit about Willow, one of my childhood favorite films, which, as I found out from Ron, has some life left in it. There is talk of a new continuation of Willow exclusively revealed by Ron Howard on this podcast.

Always a delight to talk to Ron Howard, and I hope you guys enjoy the conversation as much as I did. What else to mention? Well, a lot. I've been traveling quite a bit lately. I took a vacation. I went to Italy. I highly recommend that if you have the opportunity to eat your face off in Italy for a couple weeks. But then I got a chance to head over to London

where they were doing a bunch of press for a few new movies that are about to come out. I talked to Emma Thompson and Mindy Kaling for their new film, Late Night. I might have mentioned late night before. I saw it back at Sundance. A real crowd pleaser that's coming out soon. I realized, I don't think I've ever talked

to Emma Thompson before. And she did not disappoint. She is one of the smartest, most, witty human beings on the planet. And I hope I got a chance to talk to her more at length in the future. She'd be amazing on the podcast, of course. But even in the eight or ten minutes

I spent with her and Mindy, she was a delight. Also worth mentioning, I talked to the cast of Dark Phoenix. Yes, the newest X-Men film. Talked the entire group, fun interviews with James McAvoy, Michael Fastbender, Sophie Turner,

Jessica Chastain. All of that stuff is coming at you very soon on MTV's social channels, our YouTube page or Facebook page on my social channels. You will not be able to miss it. Played some fun games with the guys. Had a lot of laughs. That is going to be fun for all, I think. Also, the third film I covered while out in London was Rocket Man, the Elton John biopic. I mean, to say it's a biopic is a little, yes, it is a biopic, but it's definitely a different kind of biopic. And I think it really serves it well in that it is a full-on, musical, it takes, you know, it doesn't claim to be perfectly accurate, is very much a subjective journey for the character of Elton John, and it reflects his, his own personality and his own

big personality. And as you may have heard by now, Taryn Edgerton, formerly of this podcast, is amazing in it. He's just fantastic. And I'm so happy for him that he's getting these amazing reviews. I caught up with him a couple times out in London, talk to Richard Madden, Talk to Bryce Dallas Howard. All Howard's all the time. Bring them all on. So some really fun stuff with a cast of Rocket Man on its way, too. The other thing I got to do in London was I got to visit our friend Tom Hiddleston. Tom is currently starring on stage in betrayal, Harold Pinter Play, famous Harold Pinter play in London. I had never seen Tom on stage before, I realized. And as you will expect, to hear from me as a big fan and friend of Tom's. He was amazing. He really was. I mean, I'm saying this legitimately. I'm not shocked. Obviously, he's a great actor. I knew he was a great actor. But he's so good in this play. If you have the opportunity, it's only playing a couple more weeks, I think, in London.

And I'm sure it's hard to get tickets. But do what you can. He's fantastic in it. The play, I was not really well-versed in Harold Pinter at all. It's an exceptional piece of work. And it was great to see Tom on stage. great to hang out with him a little bit while I was out there, and he's doing great. He's awesome. I'm so happy for him. So that made the trip all the more special. So, yeah, a lot going on, guys. I still haven't seen Aladdin yet. I have to catch up on that. But there's a lot of love in the air for Booksmart. While it didn't do huge numbers at the box office, it has so many fans out there. And I am definitely one of them. So seek out book smart if you can. Check it out. Check out the perfection on Netflix. We had Allison Williams here on the podcast last.

week. And this coming week, you've got Rocket Man, you got Godzilla, you got Ma, you got the new Ava DuVernay mini series on Netflix. There's a lot of good stuff out there, guys. So, no complaints from you. Yeah, no Game of Thrones. It's over. Oh, by the way, I'm very proud of myself, guys. I figured out how to watch Game of Thrones while I was in Europe. I was really stressed out about it. But I did it. I cheated the system. I game the system. I fooled my computer into thinking that I was logging in from New York, and I watched the finale. And yes, I'm one of the folks that actually enjoyed the finale.

So you haters can keep on hating, but I really dug it. I was a fan. Anyway, speaking of fans, I'm a big fan of this guy. Ron Howard, enjoy his new film, Pavarotti. It comes out in theaters next week. Seek it out. And I hope you guys enjoy this chat with Ron.

Mr. Howard, Ron Howard. It's always good to see you, man. Likewise. Welcome back to the podcast. Congratulations on the new film. I was just saying this is kind of an unusual circumstance in that like, just because of scheduling and whatever, I literally have just walked out of a screening room seeing this film.

And I truly enjoyed it. This is a great piece of work. This is, the film is, of course, Pavarotti. It's a big screen doc. And I was going to say, like, I'm glad I did see it on a big screen. I'm glad you did too. And I'm thrilled. You know, you never know when you make a documentary that it's absolutely.

going to be, you know, get a theatrical release. Yeah. But, you know, I was really glad that CBS picked us up and all around the world. Companies have stepped up to distribute us and at least give the audiences a shot at seeing it and more importantly, I think,

even hearing it. Yes. In a theater. A lot of care was given to the sound and the music, obviously. And, you know, I'm I'm just, I'm rooting for as many people to experience it that way as possible. Well, you know, this is like the constant conversation

among like, you know, film fans, film geeks nowadays, obviously is like the theatrical experience and where we're at and what deserves it, what's going to get a theatrical experience. And I've just literally been thinking about in the last five minutes since I walked out of the screening room and I'm like, why is this film beyond the sound and the story, why is this need to be on a big screen?

And I feel like it's about emotion, actually. It's about, it's a, the films that I want to see in a theater are ones where, I feel something and hopefully feel something surrounded by other people feeling something. Well, you know, look, likewise. At the same time, my wife, Cheryl, and I have been, I mean, movies, and the experience of going to the movies has been sort of central to our relationship from the beginning. And yet we don't go as often as we used to.

Life's gotten busy. It's complicated. There's a lot of great stuff. There are these storytelling formats of which are. I'm eagerly participating on TV that are just amazing. And so it's all the more competitive. So in the one hand, I think audiences do pick and choose those places where this is going to be worth it. And if you're curious about the subject and if you either know a lot about opera and care deeply about it

or you're intrigued and have never really fully experienced it, those are the two groups that I think can best. benefit from going ahead and getting out to the theater and seeing it. And then after that, of course, I think we told a story that I think we'll play well on any of the formats, of course. But I do think that's optimal. You know, we have the Dolby Atmos. We have 5.1 stereo. We have, you know, we did everything we could to make it as much of a concert experience

as anything else. And also the story, Pavarotti's life story is fairly. operatic. It's pretty dramatic. There are a lot of twists and turns. They're very, they're more relatable than I ever would have expected than. Yeah. They're, they're more kind of issues that are I don't know, they're almost a reflection

of this, this ambition that he has to just experience life and the fullest. But we made a decision early on to use the arias, especially when we started really reading the lyrics. Right. and understanding the thematics around these arias

and using his performances and those arias that select times in the story to parallel his personal journey so that in a way, we're kind of making an opera about Pavarotti using his performances. And so, again, I think it's best experienced in a theater, but it does bring more emotion and connection. I mean, I've, you know, I've heard

the, you know, the sad clown aria, the, uh, the, uh, pogliachi. Yes. Uh, is, you know, how many times my life? Right. I mean, I've seen it on, I've seen it, I've seen it, uh, satirized and cartoons. And yet I never really understood what it was saying. And, and it speaks so personally, even to me, is somebody just from the entertainment world. But we caught this moment in his life, where it was the perfect song with this perfect idea to help reflect what he was what he was going through and you know it's very powerful in the movie so which camp were you in going into this

you described the two camps because I'm in the latter I'm like you know everyone knows Pavarotti there's some shorthand a little bit and but but this is a film that's like you know 10 minutes in you're like oh this is why it warrants like okay he brought opera to the masses That's literally one of the first things he says in the thing. I was in the category of, you know, having listened, never saw him live. Not an opera, not a knowledgeable opera lover, but a fan. I appreciate it.

Sure. I appreciate opera. And I, but, but, but I, but casual, very casual fan. And, and, and, and so. I find myself now, the movies, you know, were finished, we've been finished with it for two months. You know, I'm actually listening to more opera at home and in my car than I ever, ever did.

Because, of course, I have a deeper appreciation of it now. Can we talk about the use of music and your films throughout your directing career? I'm curious. Like, if there was a learning curve for you in terms of, like, how best to utilize score or song, you know, I think back to your most consistent collaborator, was James Horner?

Was he a big influence in terms of how to figure out how to marry the image with sound? Well, yes. The answer is yes to all of it, because I'm not a musician. I can play the guitar a little bit. I find it very therapeutic. I do chord patterns. I can't read music. I can't play with other people.

And I was also never a great consistent consumer. We didn't have a lot of music playing around in our house. I'm not encyclopedic. I don't remember lyrics. but when a song hits me it hits me hard and so I guess what do I respond to

the sort of that I don't know it's it's either that sort of primal emotional sensation you get or it's the story it's the narrative however that's presented whatever whatever

genre but so all that said of all the areas of filmmaking and I've always relied upon on the composers more than I've had to rely on anybody else. Because I could figure out where to put the camera. I could talk an actor through a scene.

I could sit down and rewrite it if I had to. I might not be as great as some of the A-list writers I've worked with, but I could get it done. I could not get it done. I've heard this because it's like the language is different. How do you communicate to a musician? And yet what I found is the way you communicate with the musician is the way you communicate with an actor.

It is the way you communicate with a writer. You talk about the emotion. You talk about the idea and the best composers, you know, James Horner, Tom Newman, that I've worked with, you know, Hans Zimmer, John Williams, they respond so much to, they don't even trust the screenplay that much, although they'll get an inkling. It's when they see images. And the best of them really support what they're seeing, either the shot or the actors. And now with the music documentaries, that I've done, now three of them. What's interesting is you sort of reverse engineer that. Because you say, what am I feeling with this piece of music? What does it mean? And what does it convey?

So if it's the Beatles, early on, you might sort of say, wow, that Ringo was a hell of a drummer. In fact, what we did was we re-edited a lot of those performances when we would get the dailies back. And Paul Crowder would re-edit it to, focus on who it was we wanted to, you know, that we were dealing with in our story at that point. So there was one place where we put all the focus on Ringo, two places, really, and because there was a bit of a journey. There was him as this exuberant young guy, and then there was this

guy was burning out. And, you know, we re-edited and tried to do that. And so you have this opportunity, however, to sort of say, what do the songs say to us? What do we learn, the are mostly famous songs, whether it's the Beatles or even these arias. And if you don't know the lyrics, you still have heard the music and felt something. And so it's a very, very different process. It's what can this say and what does it say about our characters and what can it convey? Because in both instances with the Beatles, eight days a week doc and now the Pavarotti doc, I really was trying to create a cinematic experience. So I'm trying to bring my, storytelling sensibilities to these subjects. It's not scripted, but I wanted to have the same

kind of effect in a way as if it was a scripted narrative. One of the most telling moments I think of the film is when we learned that a constant refrain for Pavarotti was, he was the arguably the greatest tenor of our time, would say, I go to die as he walks out on stage. And his insecurity, and he didn't like to listen to his old recording. Right. And that's an amazing scene where his daughter talks about, you know, on his deathbed, encouraging him to listen and him finally acknowledgingly. He was pretty good. You know, but I think that's, look, that ambition that standard is something that I've witnessed throughout my life in collaborating and working with, you know, some of the greats.

and they hold themselves to an incredibly high standard and those around them and I think I don't think they're ever satisfied yeah by what they've achieved and I think they can I think they feel grateful that others are embracing it yeah but there's something about their own taste that is so elevated that even they can't get there very often. Right. It's funny because, yeah, I mean, in talking to a lot of actors over the years, I feel like it's, on very rare occasions, I've talked to a performer that just sort of feels like they own their own talent in a big way. And sometimes it works out, like, for instance, Denzel. My sense is Denzel like, no, and I say this, like, I adore Denzel. But I think

he knows his talent and he feels it. But I think 90% of that time you're right. I think it's imposter syndrome for all of us. I think, So, and I was talking to my daughter, Bryce, who's been acting now for 18 years or something, and she's also had begun directing, and putting more and more emphasis on directing and producing and writing in recent years. And she sent me a great piece a year or so ago

about high achievers, particularly in the arts, that they have elevated tastes. And if they didn't have that taste, they probably wouldn't reach the grid. Yeah, they'd settle for mediocrity. And so I think that that does drive a lot of people. And I know Denzel a little bit. You know, that out of veneer is pretty tough. Maybe it's part of the, yeah.

But he's an artist too, and he wants to be great. I think that, you know, I think that they all know that they nail it once. in a while. I think Poverrati knew that he very often nailed it. He just couldn't be sure he would always get it done. Yes. And I think that and he even says that in the dock. Yeah. And I think, you know, there are great stand-up

comedians who they know that sometimes they kill and sometimes they bomb. Yeah. And they know that just because they killed last night doesn't mean they won't bomb tonight. Right. And I think that most people authors feel like the next book

might be crap. I think another The other thing where I think any artists can relate in this film is it's kind of the intersection of great craft and then experience and intangible, right? Like he clearly had a gift from above. Right. And yet it still took him six years from the time that he got the green light from his family and he made his own commitment to make this his career. Right. To actually, you know, to, not that he wasn't trying. Yeah.

But he was training six years. He wasn't a prodigy. It was interesting. And it's also interesting that like, you know, towards the end of the doc, there's this discussion of like some people criticizing that he lost a step or two. And then, and Bono coming to his defense. That was a fantastic. Great. And it's true.

It's like you think about, you know, and this can apply to directors and actors or whatever. It's like you get to a certain level of craft. You've maybe like refined it as much as possible. You have every tool in the tool set. Right. But then the intangibles come into play. Then the experience comes into play. life, the weird life stuff just gets ingrained in you.

And any way you slice it, it's still, it's still, you know, it's always, always an imperfect process. It's especially, you know, in live performance, there's always that, and then there's some excitement in that, if you're in the audience. Right. With, you know, when, when do things fully gel and those become these kind of transcendent moments, and when is it, you know, just fine? And when is there a miss? And I think I think anybody who throws themselves into it, whatever they're doing, making a television show or a podcast.

You know, what makes a thing click? They can't be sure. Right. We're all chasing it. I have to keep chasing it. Yeah. And, you know, and then have the humility and, and sort of appreciation to know that when it clicks, it's not all because of you, that the stars align in a particular way, and isn't that great? Well, it's funny because, yeah, we're all, I think we're all, you know,

we talk about imposter syndrome, we're all also always worried about losing a step, right? Like I had Terry Gilliam on recently, and he was very candid. He's like, look, my greatest fear is that I've lost it, and I won't ever get it back. And I guess that's what makes the greats keep pushing, themselves, yeah, in different ways.

I started into this and then I kind of got derailed. But, you know, I got to act with John Wayne and Henry Fonda. I got to direct Betty Davis. I acted with, you know, Ben Johnson and Glenn Ford, Barbara Stanwyck, and Jimmy Stewart. And Andy Griffith, you know, falls into the category of, I think, of an all-time great. And these people were constantly striving. And if there's one thing they had in common, it's work ethic. And I see the same thing in Tom Hanks.

I see the same thing in Russell Crow and Kate Blanchett. And, you know, it's really hard work. I just worked a year ago on Solo with Donald Glover, and he's having this unbelievable moment. But I am telling you, this is a thoughtful, dedicated, artist and he just happens to be have tremendous capability in a lot of in a lot of areas of discipline yeah aspects of the business but none of this is coming easy to this guy right except that he's smart and he's dedicated he's got this great work ethic and it's always astounding because especially the people you just kind of rattled off the real one of the real talents

is to make it us not see the seams and make it look easy Tom Hanks looks effortless on screen You can't see the actor. I always say, you know, he's a big baseball fan. And I said, well, I never saw DiMaggio play center field, but I suspect it would have been a little bit like you handling that scene we just did, Tom. Yeah, Joe was just sort of like lounging about out there and then the ball would always find him.

Yeah, exactly. You know, we've been talking a lot about music. You've never done a musical. We've talked before about how, like, you are one of those guys that's literally done almost every genre. You know what, I'm developing a musical right now, and I can't really talk about it too much, but it's a lot of fun.

And it would be an animated original musical. And I really hope we get to do it. Who knows? And we're also talking about several imagine movies that are being workshopped or developed into musicals. Wait, is Backdraft the Musical? Cool. Wow.

Well, I think maybe they'd like it to be, but that might be, you know, we'll see. We'll get by these first couple and then see if we want to go for the fireballs. Fair enough. That's a whole Spider-Man turn off the dark kind of thing. You don't want that. We had a, there was a backdraft ride that was very popular for about 20 years. So we can manage, we can control those power techniques, maybe. So are we talking about things that you've directed in the past?

Any hints you can offer? Oh, cool. Yeah. Okay, a couple of them. All right. And, you know, so we'll, again, theater is years in development. Sure. But I've been to a couple of the workshops.

They're really fun to be around. I'm not, you know, I'm not rolling up my sleeves and taking charge. But it's thrilling. It's also, I'll tell you, I'll tell you, this is a bit of a digression, but went to one, it's one workshop, and they'd only been working on it for a week. they were all in shows. I didn't know about Broadway artists. Right, how this works.

They're all in shows, and they're doing this for kind of like, I don't know, next to nothing, just to kind of do it, and killing themselves, given a hell of a performance. They've put it all together in five days. Those of us around the project, they're coming from the movie world, they're saying, man, we thought we worked fast and well. This is just mind-blowing. And, you know, and they're absolutely stunning. The talent is just amazing.

I've been to a couple of these workshops, and it's impressive. Again, I'm always, you know, hats off to the work ethic. Inspiration is a great thing, but it's putting that unbelievable effort, and as you said, making it look easy. Exactly. The mind-blower that I always appreciate. You mentioned solo. We haven't talked since solo.

I'm a great fan of that film. Thank you. And there are a lot of fans out there. Let's not, like, you know, misconstrued this, that this was like a huge up. It made a lot of money and a lot of people loved it. It just didn't live up to the expectations. And, you know, obviously factors at play in terms of timing of the release. That was my thing.

I mean, do you think if it had been released in Christmas, that movie makes $100 more million, doesn't it? Most people, look, in all honesty, I don't really watch the Star Wars movies as closely as everybody else goes. I mean, I've seen them all and some of them twice. But they're not on replay for me. So I'm, most of my opinions are formed by people who really have done that. And I came in, eager to help, felt like I could, had a blast, always curious about what it was to sort of work in the galaxy. And normally it takes three years.

I get to work like eight months and have an experience. And I feel very good about the way it turned out. And I could, you know, I love the way it played to audiences, which I witnessed and I was a part of. So all of that I'm able to feel good about it. Sure, I wish it would have done, you know, and lived up to the box office expectations and so forth. So that's disappointing. Why? Maybe it's the release.

Maybe it's the idea that it's sort of too nostalgic, that going back and revisiting, you know, an origin story for a beloved character may not be what the fans were looking for. It kind of seemed to me, in looking at it, like the opening, which was big, not as big as the others. And it would be like, it was probably my biggest opening, personally. Right. It was still disappointing, a little disappointing for them. But I think that was, those are the hardcore fans. That sort of tells you, like, how many people are tag-alongs who need to wait to see what people think or whether it's essential, like it's a zeitgeist movie or not. and whether it's just

I love Star Wars and I want to see you know what's next and so that whatever millions that made worldwide those are the hardcore fans but it didn't hit that zeitgeist point for whatever reason timing

young Han Solo I'll push back from the previous movie which I kept hearing was maybe something and some trolling definitely some trolling Some actual aggressive. You'd heard the stories, and now you were like, oh, yeah, this is real. That's what that is.

Yeah, it was pretty, it was pretty, you know, it was pretty interesting. Like you saw that on your own, like Twitter feed and all that kind of stuff? Not so much, I mean, a little bit the Twitter feed, yes. But it was especially noticeable prior to the release of the movie in several of the algorithms, whether it's Metacritic or Rotten Tomatoes, there was an inordinate push down on the want to see and on the fan voting. And when you look at it's like 3, 4, 5, 3, 4, 5,

or whatever the rating is on, I forget what it is on Rotten Tomatoes, whether it's a scale of 1 to 5 or 1 to 10, I can't remember, but pretty high. Sure. And then like a series of zeros or halves or ones or something like that. And it, you know, it's those. some friends of mine from Silicon Valley explained it to me and how it works.

They're like, you've been trolled, Rob. Guess what? Here's how you can tell. So, again, under that circumstance, I didn't take it personally at all. But I felt badly, you know, and I thought Alden did a really great job and really hard work. Oh, my God, with an impossible. Incredibly talented guy and dedicated guy. And I had a blast with everybody.

And look, a year later, it's kind of interesting. You wouldn't think you'd participate in a Star Wars project and have it wind up being a kind of a... The cult guy, the cult classic. A cult movie, but I can already tell that those who have affection for it are pretty adamant in their feelings, and that's nice. Have you ever talked to Lord Miller post the release? Have they seen it?

Have they said anything about it? They didn't talk about whether they, well, they saw, they did see, you know, their exact producers on it still, they did see a cut and give me some notes and things like that and feedback. It was all very collegial between us, and I've bumped into them since, but we didn't really talk about, you know, the movie experience. I'm sure, you know, it had to be an awful disappointment for them, and it's a shame that things went down the way they did, and, but I wound up having a really interesting

creative experience, which I'm grateful for. And now the next generation is directing Star Wars, too. Bryce has directed an episode of The Mandalorian. Yes, she had a blast and learned so much from John Favreau and company. And, you know, and it was thrilling to go visit her. And she's a natural director. But she's been directing, really, for about 10 years. Yeah, I've seen some of the shorts that she's done.

Short films, but some of those short films are like a half hour long. Yeah. And then also some brands. some doc stuff and things like that. And she's doing a documentary right now along with Mandalorian. She's doing and a lot of things she's developing because she's really making a move into producing and directing.

Without giving up on acting. She's coming up soon in Rocket Man and I've seen some of it. She's great in it. And of course, looking forward to the next. Jurassic, of course. But she's doing a documentary about fatherhood called Dads.

Oh, I saw that. She interviewed you the other day, right? She just interviewed me the other day. Are we sure this is a doc? And she's not her just asking questions that she always wanted to ask you, just like? She's very kind. It wasn't a confrontation.

Good. Thank God. But she definitely knew how to push the buttons on an old dad. Nice. And she did. Coming full circle a little bit to how we started. You know, it strikes me, you know, we're talking about the theatrical experience,

talking about Netflix. You're doing a Netflix film next. But it does strike me like a lot of the films that you've done in your career, if they're made today in 2019, I don't know. I think they're Netflix movies. They're tough movies to get in theaters. I mean, you'll get Cinderella Man, Beautiful Mind. I'm Beautiful Mind, one best picture. And I don't know if that's in a theater today. I'm not sure it would be today. Or if so, it would be made for a lot less money and have to navigate the festival circuit and be kind of an indie release. The reality is that it's one of the reasons why we're doing so much television, Brian Grazer and I, and imagine, is that it's, it's become a more and more ambitious outlet for great storytelling. And so, you know, it's thrilling if you can get a mainstream network show like Empire that is, we're, is an imagined show and, you know, and we're so proud of, you know, or all the years we had 24. But it's also exciting to be doing, you know, the U-Tang Clan for Hulu. Right. Or I'm developing, or genius, you know.

Yes, for Nat Geo, yeah. For Nat Geo, Einstein, and then Picasso. So these things are just offering us this other opportunity. So would we have chosen to make a beautiful mind a movie, Or would we have taken it in this other direction and told even more of John Nash's story? Yeah. Is there, well, let's get this out of the way. As we said, the last time I saw you, you were in my office

and there was a Willow comic hanging over it. So where the hell are we at? I mean, in this age of reboot culture, it boggles my mind that there is not a Willow continuation. There are some really serious discussions going on with John Cazden, who was one of the writers of solo. sure, who kept hounding me about Willow the whole time we were shooting and also hounding Kathy Kennedy and we are in discussions about doing a developing a Willow television show for

the Disney Plus and I think it would be a great way to go in fact George always talked about the possibility of a Willow series which she just felt innately would be great more intimate built around that character and some of the others and John Kazan has I think an inspired take on it and it could be really, really cool and it's fingers crossed.

And a continuation, not a reboot, this is the same. No, continuation, continuation. So some familiar characters. Of course. How do we do, Willow, without work Davis? Work is so cool and so good and he's just, he's such a good actor that I really hope we get a chance to see the mature

Willow in action. Yeah, we've seen a lot of him like he's as a comedian in different forms, and even back in Willow, he showed great comic timing. Yeah, yeah. But to be the hero again, pretty great. You should direct at least one of those, man. I hope to. I hope to. We'll see how it goes.

And so, can you tell me a little bit about Hillbill Elogy? This is Amy Adams, an interesting ensemble. Glenn Close, Amy Adams. it's based on the memoir, Hillbilly Allergy, J.D. Vance wrote it, and it was a New York Times bestseller for, I think, nearly two years. But it was highly politicized.

And while I think J.D. does make some sort of political points, and they're almost a sociopolitical component, to the book. Our story is this case study of an American family. And so it's much, much more the personal journey, a couple of key moments in his life that we're digging into and developing. We start shooting in a couple of months.

And I'm, you know, I'm fascinated by it. you know it's it's not just about Appalachia or you know or the Rust Belt it's it really is about sort of rural Americana

and they're navigating their place in society today or what is commonly they're they're the sort of the the slippery footing

that that they're that they're feeling and it's it's very much about navigating that and trying to break cycles of you know, family disappointment.

It's kind of remarkable. I mean, we talk again about sort of like the many genres you've hit in your career. It's like if I literally charted out like from one point to another, like what you just described couldn't be further from Pavarotti or virtually every other thing you've done. Like it's just like it's almost like you're like,

you know what? I'm going to go as far away as possible and see if I can do it. It's not that intentional, although I do believe you've got to take risks, which is another reason why I decided to throw myself into solo, because I thought it would be fascinating and really interesting, and

it was. But I love, I love, you know, sort of moving picture stories. Whether it's movies or television, you know, and, and, and I'm really curious about the way things work in our world, and whether it's at a fictional

exploration of something even through fantasy or the allegory of fantasy or broad comedy or it's based on real events what I always do I wouldn't take this applies to solo that was really like a professional opportunity

that was like a this is like a you know do you do you feel like tackling this challenge but in 90% of the projects that I've taken on. It really is, I'm curious, I'd like to see it, and I think there's something of myself I can bring to it. It's not autobiographical, but there's something about it that

I connect with, and I'd love to explore that. I think I can make something entertaining and meaningful to people, you know, so that it's not a waste of their time. Now, then you never know about marketing, You never know about a story's place in the moment in terms of as an entertainment product, you know, but I don't think that way. I think about taking that story as far as I can. It's enough of a challenge to make an actual good price of storytelling. I mean, Brian Grazer, my partner,

imagine is much better at predicting these things and he's great at it. But, you know, I just try to make it so that if, you know, when I reach a point where if the vast majority, 80% or more, of the audience that goes to see the film actually has a positive experience and get something out of it, then I feel like I've kind of done my job.

Do you consume more TV or film nowadays? Nowadays, it's more television. You know, my, Cheryl and I are coming up on our 44th wedding anniversary in June. And I, and I, and our, you know, our relationship is almost always revolved around going to the movies. I mean, that's the fun thing.

That's the date. That's the romantic, you know, decision is to go, what movie do we want to go see? And nowadays, is it, what do we binge next? Yeah. Because that's me and my way. Not so much binging. We're not really big bingers.

But it's what do we want to keep up with. Yeah. So, you know, we never really watch more than about two episodes at a time. But we get hooked into something and it becomes, we start to feel pretty urgent. about uh following it through and that's great and it's you know and it gives us something to talk about we still cherish those moments when there's something that really is compelling us to go

out to the movies and sit there together uh with an audience and and have an experience and you know and some of them are turning out to be uh docs more more than ever i mean one of our best experiences last year was going to a movie theater to see the mr rogers documentary. And it was great for us. We had a great night seeing it. And so, you know, I think there's more than ever there's lots to choose from. It challenges all of us creative types to step up and compete. Did you, at a curiosity, did you see Apollo 11? The doc? Not yet, but Brian saw it. Brian Grazer and said it was remarkable. It's amazing. I can't wait to see it. He was blown away and he didn't expect to really learn anything new. And he sort of, he,

I think grudgingly went because somebody had invited him to a screening or something like that. And he has just talked about it nonstop, and I've got to see it. You will, and see it on a big screen. I'm sure they're going to bring it back because the footage they have found is just, it will...

Amazing. Yeah, especially given your experience with the subject matter. In retrospect, we're talking about a lot about TV versus film. Should Dark Tower just have been a TV series to start? Was that the mistake on that? Because that was one that we talked about for years

and you were going to direct it at one point. I think it should have been horror. I think that it landed in a place both in our minds and the studios that it could be PG-13

and sort of a boy's adventure and that it could You start to see the broad possibilities and it's... And I really think we made a mistake not, I mean I'm not sure we could have made this movie but I think if we could have made a darker, more hard-boiled

look and make it the Gunslinger's character study more than Jake. I think that in retrospect, I think that would have been maybe the more exciting. I felt like we were, we always felt like we were kind of holding back

something. And I think at the end of the day it was that. The other thing might have been to just to straight on tackle it as television first. I don't know. Disappointing because I poured a lot of myself into it. And And sometimes this happens on these projects where everybody's best intentions, you're all pulling in a direction, and then you sort of say, was that the right direction?

Yeah. And how did we get here? Like, with so many different iterations, and it's like, wait, we, somehow we got to. And I wouldn't say it was all compromise. I mean, I do think it was, it was just a sense of maybe, you know, maybe that too much listening to what you think the marketplace is calling for. Right. instead of really the essence of what Stephen King was giving us. Is your happiest part of the process being on a film set,

or is it edit room or what? Where do you feel like you're most energized? Well, I really love development meetings with writers. I think that's great. The sparks are flying. The sparks are flying. I also love where I am right now with Hillbilly Elogy. It's prep.

Right. So screenplays come a long way. Vanessa Taylor's done a very good job with it. We're still working on it. Now I'm working with the cinematographer, a woman named Maurice Alberti, and our production designers, and so forth. And, you know, what's it going to look like? Where are we going to shoot? We're dreaming the movie a little bit right now.

While we go around and visit these locations, there's not a lot of deadline pressure. Right. Plenty of time for... Anything's possible. Nothing can go wrong right now. Nice comfortable lunches. Exactly. A little laughing, a little dreaming, and a little problem solving. and I find that a lot of fun.

I love shooting. I really, really still, my legs hurt, my back hurts, my head hurts. I don't get enough sleep. But the excitement of going, that's like going on the expedition. Yeah. And so that is that, you know, that sense of adventure that you experience and the teamwork of trying to pull together. I love, I love.

that collaboration and that excitement that comes from it. And when you add to it, the pressure cooker of the constraints of live action production, you never have enough money. You never have enough time. I don't care what the budget tells you you've got. Your ambitions always exceed that. And it's been my life being on that set. So that's a place, that in my living room are the places I'm most comfortable.

Those are the two places. And so I think I'll always enjoy shooting. There's a back draft, too, that exists, Ron. I haven't seen that yet. Can we end on this? How is that possible? Well, you know, it's Universal's IP. I just discovered this the other week, and I was like, what?

I don't know. I hope it's good. I don't know. I don't know. But my friend Bill Baldwin, I see he was in it. So he got a gig out of it, and that's a good thing. Okay. And so I hope people enjoyed it.

Always wishing the best for others. Congratulations, honestly, on the new film. Pavarotti, if you have the opportunity to see it in a theater, see it in a theater, it's, you know, again, I came from a casual fan perspective and it made me certainly appreciated. And as you say, he's a very relatable, human.

There's a lot of humor in it, which was, you know, another pleasant surprise. Oh my God, his spirit is just, he's a kid. He's a big kid. Yeah, and he knew how to be funny. He had great timing. And you can see, you can see, like, you've worked at the biggest movie star,

on the planet this guy like lights up a room i met him one time very briefly yeah and it was in a room of movie stars and television stars and he showed up and he was it yeah and that was the thing i had briefest handshake um um but uh you know but the the charisma was there but it was just so so interesting that he was the brightest star in a room full of you know all kinds of award winners and yeah well you definitely captured it in this one uh well worth checking out ron It's always a pleasure. Pleasure. Thanks.

Nice. Thank you. And so ends another edition of happy, sad, confused. Remember to review, rate, and subscribe to this show on iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm a big podcast person. I'm Daisy Ridley, and I definitely wasn't pressure to do this by Josh. Hey, Michael. Hey, Tom.

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