Happy Sad Confused - Russell Crowe

Episode Date: April 6, 2023

Russell Crowe looks back at his iconic career, from GLADIATOR to MAN OF STEEL, and his new film THE POPE'S EXORCIST. #happysadconfused #joshhorowitz #russellcrowe #thepopesexorcist   UPCOMING LIVE EVENTS! Jim Gaffigan -- 4/27 at 92NY in NYC. Virtual tickets available! ⁠Get your tickets here!⁠ John Cena -- 5/15 at 92NY in NYC. Virtual tickets available. ⁠Get your tickets here!⁠ SUPPORT THE SHOW BY SUPPORTING OUR SPONSORS! RAYCON -- Go to ⁠BuyRaycon.com/hsc⁠ TODAY to get 15% off your Raycon order! MINT MOBILE -- To get your new wireless plan for just 15 bucks a month, and get the plan shipped to your door for FREE, go to ⁠MintMobile.com/HSC⁠   To watch episodes of Happy Sad Confused, subscribe to ⁠⁠⁠⁠Josh's youtube channel here⁠⁠⁠⁠! Check out the ⁠⁠⁠⁠Happy Sad Confused patreon here⁠⁠⁠⁠! We've got discount codes to live events, merch, early access, exclusive episodes of GAME NIGHT, video versions of the podcast, and more! For all of your media headlines remember to subscribe to ⁠⁠⁠⁠The Wakeup newsletter here⁠⁠⁠⁠! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Because when you're doing big things, your tools should to. Visit square.ca to get started. Prepare your ears, humans. Happy, sad, confused begins now. Today on Happy, Said Confused, Russell Crow, from Gladiator to his first horror film with The Pope's Exorcist. Hey guys, I'm Josh Horowitz, and welcome to another edition of Happy, Sad, Confused. And we got another first timer this week, guys, and this one, it's a big one.

one. Russell Crow on the podcast today, all the way from Australia via the Miracles of Zoom technology. This was another big one. He crossed another one off the bucket list. Never done the big deep dive chat with the legend that is Russell Crow and he did not disappoint. This is a career chat with a true icon and he is a great conversationalist and he is a really smart, fun guy. So you're going to really dig this one. Before we get to the crow of it all, though, let's talk about other things going on in HappySat Confused and Josh Horowitz's universe that you guys might be interested in, which includes, well, guys, we've got another big live event coming up. Mark your calendars. May 15th, 7 p.m., me,

John Sina, New York City. Be there if you can. And if you can't be there in person, you can buy a virtual ticket as well and be there from wherever you are around the world. It's going to be a great night. John Sina was on the podcast for Peacemaker. He's coming back on to support this little movie called Fast X, Fast 10, Fast whatever we want to call it. He's back along with like, I feel like every actor in the Fast Universe. And I know John Sina fans are out there. I know they're going to come out in full force to celebrate this good dude.

this fine actor, this charisma machine that is Mr. John Sina, it's going to be a great night. So May 15th, 7 p.m. mark the calendars. Get your tickets now. All the info, of course, is in the note section here. So hope to see you guys there. We have another event actually coming up in late April that I don't think has been officially announced. It probably has been actually by the time you listen to this. So check my social media feed. Go to 92 NY's website. There is another live event with a really fun guest coming up in late April and more to come. Don't you worry. Reminder, folks, if you haven't checked out our Patreon page, you know what to do. Or maybe you don't know what to do. I'm speaking to the folks that don't know what to do. Patreon.com slash happy,

say I confused. What can you get there? What can't you get there, my friends? You can get early access to every single podcast, video and audio formats. You get the the swag, the opportunity, to ask questions. You get your name and lights on video versions of the episodes. You get a chance to get autographed stuff. If you're at the producer, executive producer level, get posters. There's a lot there. We try to make it worth your while. And if you haven't checked it out yet, do it now. Patreon.com slash happy, sad, confused. Not much else to mention. I guess I want to remind folks, if you haven't checked out my conversations with the cast of Dungeons and Dragons, check it out. So happy to see that that movie

has done pretty well at the box office. We had a great shout with Chris Pine over for Comedy Central. Check out their social media feeds or mine for MTV News. I spoke to Reggae Jean Page. That was fantastic. And that's about it, guys. I want to get to the main event because this was for a little backstory, a little background. I've been trying to get Russell for a while. He's not often in the States, so it's hard to get him in person. And then this opportunity came around. And I didn't even know if it was going to happen until the way. last minute, to be perfectly honest. We were going back and forth. We were hopeful it was in the schedule. It was one of these things like, is it going to happen? We think it's going to happen. Has he

officially said yes? We're not sure, but it's in the schedule. So kind of up until Russell Crow's face appeared on my computer screen, I wasn't sure it was happening. And all the tension and worry going in flew out the window once we started chatting because I can talk to somebody about moving. with a sense of humor, and that is what this man is. He's very funny. He's very sharp. He knows cinema. He knows great filmmakers. He's worked with the best. So once we were in there, man, it was off to the races. So yes, we are promoting, he's promoting, I should say, his new movie, which is called the Pope's Exorcist, which is his first horror film, and could be even a potential franchise for him, frankly. He's clearly having a lot of fun with this

role that is seemingly based on true events in a way. It's kind of of his Robert Langdon character to reference, you know, the Da Vinci Code movies that there were. So we'll see. Hopefully he does well at the box office and we get more Russell Crow, you know, chasing around supernatural demons, combating evil. We could do a lot worse. That is the new movie. But, of course, we talk about a whole bunch of stuff, everything from his arrival in the States early on after succeeding back in Australia and then, you know, coming to such amazing success with films like L.A. and Gladiator and the insider and a beautiful mind.

I mean, it goes on and on and on and on. All the way up to and including we talk about his recent run of superhero films. I had to kick out with him about Man of Steel because I love his opening sequence in that movie. His role in the recent Thor film, his upcoming role in Craven, a movie I'm very excited about. The sequels that he would have, could have, should have wanted in his career. I had to pick his brain, by the way. do you guys know about this the gladiator sequel this is not the gladiator sequel that's being made there isn't a new gladiator movie that ridley scott is about to direct with paul mescal

russell's not in it spoiler alert his character died but way back when i think it was like 10 15 years ago um russell commissioned a script by none other than nick cave and this is an infamous script i think you can even read the script online and it's one of those stories i've always been fascinated by So to hear it straight from Russell to talk about his pitch for what the gladiator sequel would have been, kind of an amazing piece of movie history. I love those stories of those bizarre crazy projects that almost came to fruition, whether it's George Miller's Justice League or Russell Crow and Nick Cave's Gladiator 2. So stay tuned for that one, a lot of great stories in this conversation with, you know, it's not hyperbole to say. one of the most significant actors of the last 30 years on the big screen. I will absolutely put my money on that one.

I hope you guys enjoy this chat. Remember to review, rate and subscribe to happy, sad, confused, spread the good word. And I'm not just saying that. Take a second. If you've enjoyed some of our episodes, write a review. Give us a five-star rating on iTunes or wherever you're listening to this. It would mean a lot. And in gratitude for that action, I give you me and the ice.

Khan, the man the myth, the legend. Here is Russell Crowe. I must be doing something right because Russell Crow is in my Zoom box on my screen. Welcome to the podcast, sir. You've been on the list a while. Thank you for taking the time today. I appreciate it, man. Jeez, my pleasure, mate. My pleasure. As you can tell, I'm excited. My dog is very excited. As you can see her, Lucy is a big fan. Lucy. Hello, puppy. She's playing a cool reaction. She's playing it cool around you um congratulations man on the film well first of all i should say um you're in the future uh you're in australia are things is everything cleared up over there so we figure it all out because things are still fucked up a day the day behind over here it's still the same morass of

confusion but uh the the future looks bright i mean it's it's a very beautiful sunny day here today i'm i hope that you get that too tomorrow oh excellent okay that's something i'll take anything I can get at this point. Congrats on the film, the Pope's Exorcist. It really works. This one totally works. And here's my theory on why it works. And I can connect it to some other work of yours, if you'll indulge me.

It embraces what it is. It is a good version of what this should be, of what you want out of an exorcism film, of a scary film. And I think back to films you've done, whether it's Gladiator or LA Confidential. or Cinderella Man and those are movies that are, they don't arch an eyebrow at what they are doing. They're just being the best version of that kind of movie. Am I fishing? Where am I at?

What do you think? Well, look, I'm glad you had a good experience with it. You know, I think that there's, you know, with horror films, it can be so easy to overcook your audience, you know, and give them so much stuff that they go, that it's too much or whatever you know what we were trying to do here is you know particularly once i started reading the true history of the of the man father-remorth you know is try and balance the horror stuff with a little bit of humor but also bring into it you know i mean i'm only

talking about you know scratching the surface here like little bits of da Vinci code or even little bits of raiders of the lost arc or you know and as one guy i was talking to the other day said so this is an exorcism buddy movie that has elements of all that stuff and when the laughs hit they hit an audience really hard you know yeah you do undercut some some moments in a wonderful way after like a truly dramatic horrific moment there is that kind of like

sigh of like can you believe that just happened Jesus maybe Jesus is the wrong thing to say yeah there's so much there's so much space to you know put a line flat on the table which gets a good response you know you know I you know I looked into this character and I just really enjoyed I'm talking about the real man you know right the man more he'd done in his life and I just thought he was absolutely fascinating you know and that idea of you know one of of keeping him as an Italian and letting him be as an as Italian as possible you know but also bringing what is a very

well documented and quite famous irreverent sense of humor to the table as well you know well i was going to say yeah like is the real man like how much of this are russell touches or in the script or how much is it the real man like the the sunglasses the humor sneaking a little whiskey a vespa like these are little these are little things by the way it's a lamretto you must understand oh sorry sorry but see these are little things and some of them are documented and some of them are secrets and some of his friends and colleagues didn't want to necessarily talk about how he might smoke a cigarette every now and then or he might do this or that, you know, things that are sort of outside what we would understand in normal priestly realm to be, you know, but it was

quite clear in the things that I could read that there was this irreverence to authority, you know? Right. He understood the hierarchy, obviously, of the church, but he still sort of, you know, felt that everybody in that organization should be bound by truth and and and be you know bound by the spirit of what they do you know not just the black and white of it you know so um you know he said some outrageous things over time man my favorite quote of his is when he said you should not do yoga for yoga who requires you to put

yourself at the center of the universe. Surely, this is a place God should occupy. So, just too stretching. Can you record just like daily affirmations for me in this voice? I just, I told you, Josh, it's going to be a very good day. You're going to have a lovely time. Josh, don't forget to feed Lucy. The new voice of the New York.

subway system perhaps. Next stop is going to be Brooklyn. We're going to love it. Everybody. So, okay, this is a filmmaker you haven't worked with before. You've obviously repeated with a lot of filmmakers over the years. Is there like a spiel, a kind of like a groundwork you like to lay where you're working with somebody for the first time? Like, this is the way I work. I want to connect with you and meet you on common ground. Like, this works for me. Let's find out where we can connect like what's the opening kind of conversation to connect with filmmaker it usually centers around sort of authorship you know in that um it's all well and good what you have on the page now that's going to change um i've spent you know if i'm spending weeks looking into something on

your behalf you know and i uncover nuggets of gold and you uh decide that uh you know that you know those nuggets of gold are not worthy enough for your movie or whatever, then it's sort of problematic. It's like you're sort of cutting me short of what I actually do, you know. But Julius Avery, you know, is a young Australian. Obviously, you know, because of that, he's probably seen a lot of the stuff I've done and grown up with the stuff I've done, you know. So he's well aware of that level of authorship, you know. And that's every single movie I've ever done.

It's very, very rare that I've ever been on a set and gone, oh, I'm sticking to every single word that's on this page, you know. But I also do have the capacity to recognize when something's perfect, you know, and it doesn't need any adjustment. So don't worry about that, you know, but, you know, quite often, you know, by the time a script has gone through the process, you know, it might be in one shape when the first writer has a go at it, and then gets in, you know, they're bringing in somebody to rewrite, and then it gets sort of reshaped. over in another direction and what the people that are looking for is maybe a series of things that they want to see in a line, you know? They want to see all their ducks in a row. But what they forget is that this medium works on many different levels. And sometimes that process of script revision dries everything out. There's no juice left. You know, there's not. Because it's no one person's voice. It's just like diluted 18, a committee of 18. Yeah. That's right.

So, you know, what I try often to do is actually, you know, in that sort of thing, look at the first ever draft and go, okay, where was he, you know, where was he actually going in the first place? But, you know, sometimes, too, though, you've just got to take things into your own hands and say, you know what, this needs to be significantly more interesting for a theatrical audience to give a shit. Let's be real, yeah, yeah. Yes, that's right. So let's go forward on that basis. we are not here to bore the piss out of people in the theatre. We are here to entertain them. That's our job.

It says it on the door, right? I forget. But a lot of the things I say to young directors are just practical things, you know. I'll work as hard as you require me to for, you know, the length of any day. But from the moment I leave, you know, for the moment I arrive at my place of abode, it'll be 12 hours before I come back out that door. again you know and and i think i've sort of done enough films and the right to have that sort of protected turn around because it's that time off the set where i've got to think and prep for the

next few days so you know you you don't want to get into a place that um i was kind of forced into into a into a few films when i was a young fellow where you're in such a place of exhaustion you're sort of missing opportunities you know you're missing opportunities and you're missing uh connecting certain dots and what have you and so for me it's like okay whatever the jobs going to take but you know that turnaround and and i'll usually say this line i'll usually say this would be to the director and to the first assistant um i um don't bother coming to me at asking me to break my turnaround because i don't break my turnaround even for god so i think it's funny it might come across as it's intimidating but i think it's kind of funny it establish

It's good up front to establish that. You know, I very much know I'm on a film set and I'm working on behalf of that director. I'm working trying to bring that guy the vision that he has. But sometimes, you know, particularly with younger guys, I actually don't know what scaffolding is required to get to that thing that they're seeing in their head. Yes. And quite often on sets these days, man, and it's a very regular occurrence. You know, I was very lucky when I was a young actor.

I got to work with people significant. older than me, you know, the, you know, Ridley Scott and Michael Mann and Ron Howard and Peter Weir and so, you know, George Ogierp is a very long list, you know, and each and every one of those great directors I've ever worked with, you can be absolutely assured I've taken a massive amount of information away with me that I've stored in the back of my head, you know, so there isn't very often a, you know, in fact, I'd fail to remember one if I even thought about it for a while, where I get in this situation on a set where a young director is painted him or herself into a corner

it's not very often, if at all, that I can't give them the steps that they've got to take to get out of that corner and get the day done, you know? Well, and what you could probably say to them, like those filmmakers you rattled off, like all of them, correct me if I'm wrong,

they all come with a plan. I mean, there's no one more meticulous than Michael Mann, and yet he is a collaborative filmmaker. He wants to go, right? And so, like, if Michael Mann is willing to collaborate, you, 25-year-old, don't pretend you have all the answers because you don't. Michael Mann does. Well, yeah, but, Michael does absolutely have a plan. Michael will have a file for every scene, right?

Right. So if you have five or six scenes you're doing on a particular day, he has a separate file for each scene. And, you know, he'll open that file. And at first, I was expecting, oh, there's some sort of, like, absolutely amazing thing he's going to come out with, bring out from the file. But it might be a color swatch of something. It might be, you know, something tactile. You know, there might be a song lyrics. They're just things that as you're considering that scene.

That's right. And then something comes up and he sticks it in that file. And then he brings that file out on the day. And you both kind of look at what's in the magic file. Let's see what might help. But, you know, absolutely Michael, you know, I mean, you know, Michael's not just going to take your idea for the sake of taking your idea michael's going to require you to debate this idea yes michael's going to require you to actually prove via empirical evidence or passion that you

have to adjust his trajectory you know um and but there's you know even though he's tough right and he's like sure like all great leaders are you don't have to be right you only have to be certain but he's still available to a better idea, you know, and that is what makes him great, you know. And look, Ridley is the same. Sure. I went to Ridley and I said, look, I just feel I want something original that Maximus says when he's like greeting, you know, one of his soldiers, it's not, it's not something that he would use with somebody from the GP, you know, but when he's met one of his officers or one of his soldiers somebody that he's been in the trenches with you know he has this particular thing and it's kind of like original sort of thing that he says with with his men

and i can make that over time have an emotional uh quotient and ridley's like i have no idea what you're talking about and i'm like look you know so like i'm talking about like maybe a latin phrase you know um because i went to a school and the the phrase of my school was uh veritatte et you know and he's smoking the cigar and he's like and what does that mean you know I said well it's truth and virtue and he goes hmm you know I said that's not the idea the idea would be to say you know forza a anorum you know and really goes what the fuck does that mean you know I say well it actually means strength and honor and he goes oh say that now we're on to something

That's the character. That's the thing. It's like people, you know, people don't understand that collaboration doesn't come in a neat little bag. No, it's the back and force. It's the arguing and the... There's two heads, and they're both facing the same direction, both pushing towards the same thing, you know. And like even on the night, you know, when you wanted me to sit in the tent post-battle and ponder the universe, you know, and I said, well, why don't I have some kind of ritual? It's post-battle, and I'm being grateful.

you know, to the gods or whatever, you know, like a prayer, you know. And he goes, okay, cool. So I'll light for that. I'll light, you know, puts all these spooky candles around and everything. And I was just mucking around with, you know, some stuff that the set decorators have put out. And I found that little figurine, you know, the, of the mother and the child, you know. Yeah. So I moved things around, you know, and he's like, what are you doing?

You know, I just, well, I just want to have the figurines in front of me, you know. because I'm talking to my wife and child, you know, and then at one take I picked them up and kissed them, right? And that just, it just set off a little thing in his head. And he's like tapping me on the shoulder at the end of that. And he goes, there's something in that, man, there's something in that. And he just made sure that the art department knew where those figurines were, right? And over time, you know, that's the first week of shooting.

Over time, we start building this idea, and then suddenly those figurines become, you know, that's the end of the film, you know? sort of like, and it's, you know, but that's, like I say, it's, it's just, you know, brains working together, facing the same direction, scratching it the same thing, and staying if you can't improve it, you know? After years of fine print contracts and getting ripped off by big wireless providers, if we've weren't anything, it's there's always a catch, right? So when I first heard that Mint Mobile offers premium wireless at just 15 bucks a month,

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infamously I mean how does that happen with with a script that wasn't quite complete but we'll save that for another another day but here's what I since you foolishly have agreed to to a decent amount of time with me. I remember way back when, when I was a young lad, we were both young lads, I saw you first. I first saw you in the one-two punch of, I think it was Quick in the Dead and Virtuosity. And that was kind of your Hollywood, like, breaks, as it were. And then I went back and I saw Romper Stomper, and I kind of, I saw the breadth of the work. But I guess, can you take me back to that time of like when you started to get those opportunities?

And that must have been part of the goal, presumably, to break into. Hollywood, as it were? And was it exciting, disillusioning? Like, what do you remember about that early time? Well, you know, I'd very quickly sort of amassed a group of films in Australia that were doing work for me by themselves, traveling the world, you know? Right. The first one was a film called The Crossing, directed by George Ogily, I mentioned before. And, you know, that, That film never got any popularity in the mainstream or whatever, but from, you know, other filmmakers and, you know, people like that. They like George's work. They also like the work of the DP, Jeff Darling.

I was in a movie called Proof, which was about a blind photographer, played by Hugo Weaving. And that film opened director's fortnight in Cannes. Oh, wow. You know? Yeah. And Rompa Stompa that you mentioned, you know. So there was a number of years in a row where I had, where I was represented by a film at the Cannes Film Festival, you know. And then I got to a point, I think it was like, there was only about seven lead roles in, right?

And I'd also won, you know, by then I'd won a couple of Australian Oscars, you know. And then a script arrived and gave me the opportunity to work with an actress that I really wanted to work with. So I did it. But then the next script that came along was like a mirror of that script, you know. So I was looking at that and then I was looking at the careers of other Australian actors. And I sort of, I just realized that even after like seven roles, from an Australian industry perspective, I was already in the place where they were happy and comfortable with what I'd done and would just get you another role like that. Yeah.

Yeah. so you can be the guy that rides the horse again, you know? Yeah. And I just thought this is going to drive me crazy. And I also thought that it was kind of like at the point of diminishing returns. You know what I mean? It's like, okay, you're out there. If you do this, you're actually forcing, you know, that you've actually peaked, you know?

Right. And at that point in time, I was only, you know, in my 20s, in my late 20s. And it was like, I've only just started doing this, you know. Right. I'm ready to sort of start repeating myself. So, you know, the only option left in front of me was to make movies and other places as well. Yeah. Scale the next peak.

Start at the bottoms were sort of the middle and then go scale that mountain again. I went to the Cannes Film Festival in 1991 and there was an Australian actor that was there and everybody was fating him. And he's a guy that actually didn't go on. to have a big career but at the time had a lot of support within the industry that he was going to be the next big thing or whatever you know right and you know I was there legitimately with the film that had opened directors fortnight but none of those industry people were sort of caring about me to focus on this other guy but because he was sort of like by himself or whatever

he included me in a few of these lunches or whatever and I met some people and I met this one particular lawyer, you know, and I just took his card. I just got the vibe when I was at Ken. So many Americans, industry people were coming up and they were talking to me, not about one role, but about multiple things that they've seen, that's seen me in, you know. So I was just thinking, well, maybe I should go there, you know. And at the time, you're talking about the early 90s, it's not a thing. You know, you don't just go to Los Angeles and, you know, create something you know you had people like sam neal or brian brown they're making international movies but they very definitely have walked into those films because something they had done

had achieved a certain amount of success right and therefore they were sort of just kissed into those gigs you know i guess mel was the outlier perhaps right mel gibson was that might be considered the outlier maybe he's the one that kind of like yeah but mel wasn't really a Yeah, he grew up. He's as American as he is. However, very first Mad Max when it came out in America, he dubbed his voice. No, I remember. Yeah, cool. Yeah. Yeah. So, but, but, you know, because he had an American background and his voice still had an American flavor to it, and of course, like, just like with Sam Neal, with, you know, the Phil Noisse movie, Dead Calm, I was trying to think of it, you know. Oh, sure. Yeah. And, you know, things like with Brian Brown, he had something like Breaking

around that they're quite big independent successes you know and mad max i think at the time was the largest box office for an independent film in the history of cinema you know so they're slightly different situations you know um but i was you know um and i was doing films that were getting a lot of respect and great reviews and stuff like that but they were not movies that were breaking out at the box office you know in fact romber was banned in more countries than it showed nothing you know in reality you know so i go into america off the back of just of just feeling that there was more going on than i'd realized you know and i called that lawyer and uh i said jim listen i want you to want you to arrange meetings with me with the top 10 agencies in la and he sort of

started like laughing you know um and he said it just doesn't work that way he And I mean, it's just, you know, I said, well, I've got a feeling that you don't know as much as these guys in the agencies, you know. So just indulge me. I'll pay you your hourly rate or whatever, you know, make a few phone calls, see if you can get any interest, you know. Literally a day later, he calls me back and he goes, well, you're, you seem to be right. Every single agency has taken the opportunity to meet you. You've got top 10, and in some cases you've got, you know, one agency wants you to meet every one of its young agents and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

I said, cool, all right, well, let's make a date and I'll come in, right? So, you know, I go into Los Angeles with, you know, a singular thing in mind if I just find representation, because that's the thing that always seemed to slow people down, is that they might, you know, have garnered some interest or whatever, but they didn't have a champion. and they didn't have somebody working on their behalf, you know. So I did all of those meetings. I met all of those young agents. And a couple of them stuck out to me, you know.

One of them was a lady called Hilda Quirley, and the other one was another guy called George Freeman. Now, these two at the time were both junior, junior agents, right? You know, they were sort of agent where they had to have two other people within the same company, you know, a middle-level agent and a senior agent agreeing to their, decisions before they could do anything you know i mean so it's old though those two particular people went on to have massive careers and develop multiple academy award winners and you know i mean hilda represents some of the greatest actresses in history and blah blah so interesting that i met

everybody and those were my top two you know and um you know initially i signed with hilda but then i felt you know the first thing that came up you know it got taken away from from me because the agency wanted to give that particular job to somebody else. I was like, okay, right, this, I'm in the wrong spot here. So over one weekend, I switched from, you know, so Hilda represented me for a day. I switched during the course of the weekend and was with a different agent by the Monday. And the thing is, is, you know, that guy, George Freeman, I'm still represented by him today. Wow.

I still work with him today, you know. And it's that consistency of our collaboration. Everybody knows, you know, in town. They know how to find out if I'm available. They, you know, they haven't had to, like, track me down through agency switches or whatever. The mysterious Bill Murray number. They know to go to George. They go, yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, it's that thing of, like, you know, when he's left an agency, I've left that agency, you know. Gotcha. Yeah. Got fired from an agency. I went with him.

You know, and we, you know, it's a great collaboration, man. It's been very, very successful, you know. But do you, back in the day, sorry. I'm just trying to set the ground here because you asked me about what it was like. You're talking about a period of time, man, when I go into a meeting and I would speak in my natural accent and people would literally be sitting in front of me, go, I'm sorry, I can't understand what you're saying. It's like, I just asked for coffee. You asked for a while?

And it was just like, it's very odd. You know, and you got producers coming up saying, hey, man, you know, don't whatever you do, talk in your natural accent. Just, you know, pick a place you're from in America and then just tell people you're from Kansas. And once you say that, they'll be happy or whatever and then just get on with a meeting, but don't speak as an Australian. And in my, you know, pig-headed young mind, I was like, if the director is so stupid that they don't, you know, they haven't looked at something I've done before they brought me in, right? Or that they, you know, it's like I don't want to work with that person. I want to work with the person that can talk to me like, you know, I'm the normal person and then allow me to leap from. me as me to me as the character you know sure um so it was a very uh interesting time and i did

you know a few years there of you know i could see the people who'd moved to los angeles and what they were settling for and you know i didn't want to do that so i kind of manufactured this thing that i was so busy i could only come in for a week or 10 days at a time you know and in fact the reality was, it was, I had lots of work to do, you know, but I did want to break into that market, you know, but I sort of had this idea that if I only came in every now and then. Yeah, the scarcity of Russell. Oh, wait, we got a, we got around. It was a little bit more special, right? You know, yeah. And I'd arrive in my, I used to call myself the shoe salesman because, you know, I'd arrive in Los Angeles and I'd get, you know, a rental car, a mobile phone and a list of meetings, right? And

One of the first times I went in there, I had like seven meetings on the Monday. And in my audience's mind is like everybody in LA shifts meetings. So you go to a meeting and they say, sorry, such and such can't see you now, but we can see you now on Wednesday or whatever, you know. And the idea, he gave me like, you know, seven meetings. I went out on the Monday, did them all, you know. And even if somebody said they couldn't see me right now, I said, I'll wait. So I got all the meetings done.

I called and said, yeah, got all those done. He said, you did what? And I said, all the meetings done, what am I doing tomorrow, you know? He goes, that was supposed to last you all week. And I was like, no, it didn't. So it was one of those funny things that when I was a young fellow, I got around and met everybody. So as I started to work in America, you have this thing where these people who met you a couple of years before, you know, they start to feel connected to you.

You know, so you start to have this wider, you know, community that is kind of willing your success because they met you when you know um now of course once you get to a sort of a peak point of that um it changes very rapidly because now everybody that you ever met wants you to do their project and you simply cannot do everything you know but it becomes that you know when you cross into that point with studios where if you say you want to do it they will finance it you know then that becomes a really big thing for a lot of independent producers or whatever you know guarantees sort of that they can get their project over the line. So when you have to start saying no to people who consider that they're part of your success,

then, you know, things change. Is it just me or in this time of year is everybody talking about making these giant changes to their lives, as if we're all going to just change overnight into a different person? For me, it's not about the giant change. It's about the small stuff and the small stuff that can impact your day to day. And for me, that's where earbuds come in. That's where Raycon, our sponsor, comes into play because with Raycon, you're getting premium audio at the perfect price point so you can build great habits without breaking the bank.

They give you everything you want, at least I want, in an earbud. They have crystal clear call quality. And you need that. I need that. I don't want my phone calls breaking up while I'm talking or running. They are water and sweat resistant because, guys, I sweat when I run. They give you eight hours of playtime for everyday earbuds or 11 hours for the everyday speaker. So you're going to get the maximum amount of time with your device without having to recharge it constantly.

Plus, they look great, they feel great, they sound great. They are everything you guys need and want in an earbud. are you ready to buy something small with a big impact go to buy raycon.com slash hSC today to get 15% off your racon order that's buy raucon.com slash hSC to score 15% off buy raycon.com slash hSC. It's fascinating also when you get to that point in the career when you to have the luxury and for 99% of actors they don't have the luxury of saying no and and you like because you are in that rarefied air and have been for some

time as famous as the roles you've done are these supposed roles that you passed on Hugh Jackman has been very kind in saying he kind of owes you a career because you passed on Wolverine correct yeah but I also suggested him for it too you know because because look they show me art and stuff like that and it's like it doesn't look like me you know It doesn't look like me, but I'll tell you who it looks like, is it looks like Hugh Jackman. You know, and I did the same with Baz Luhrman. You know, they were doing sort of like pictures and stuff for Australia. And I'm like, okay, but you're drawing, you know, these drawings don't make me think of me.

You know, that looks like Hugh Jackman, you know. So, yeah, I've always been able to say no, though, you know, even when I was a young fella. if something that was offered that, you know, I didn't think was going to be of significance to me in terms of what I, you know, what I would be able to give to it, then I would just say no. And I think, I think that's why I still love my job, Josh. You know, I know a bunch of people my age in my job and they're kind of a little bit bitter and twisted about things and stuff like that, you know. Bitter people in Hollywood?

What are you talking about, Russell? If I decide to be on a job and it requires me to wake up at 4 o'clock in the morning, when I wake up at 4 o'clock in the morning, I know why I'm there. Yeah. And I'm totally fine because I made that decision. And, you know, so whatever you have to go through on behalf of the character and stuff, I'm comfortable with, you know, because I simply know why I'm here. You know, I've made the decision based on doing this character because it's got under my skin.

you've you've you've you've been in a few very notable comic movies if not wolverine in recent years I spoke to you a few years back and I'm going to reiterate what I said to you then the opening sequence in man of steel is one of the great mic drop great sequences for me it's like oh russell crow is riding a dragon I am so in for whatever this is going to take me with you Zach Snyder um did I guess just tell me like did you respond to that immediately and why the hell didn't we get more of it i mean i think if that were made today there is a jorel spin off there is an hbo max series was there ever any talk of anything more with that character was it was it always one and done yeah but i i think that you know those kind of conversations happen all the time you know once somebody has something like that going and you know how how else you can sort of make things out i would have loved to have done a like a Jorrell story pre the Superman story and and you know while him and the other characters now I'm forgetting at the moment you know when they were friends you know and and the

build up of the political oh Zod yeah yeah Michael Shannon oh my god you guys together yeah yeah so that would have been interesting but you know it never eventuated so that doesn't that doesn't bother me at all. I found that script very heavy going, I have to say, you know, they did the big studio security thing with that where they, you know, they flew somebody to Australia carrying the script. On red paper, they're watching you, the whole thing. One single, you know, a copy, but, you know, I kept having to stop and go back and read it. So I kept that poor, poor person hanging around my house for about six or seven hours that day because I kept going back and reading, you know, pages again to understand where I was. And, you know, to be completely

honest, I'm not sure I fully understood once I finished it either, you know. But what I did understand was what they wanted me to do, which would just play Superman's Dad. And that was kind of, for me personally, you know, it was kind of stepping into the shoes of one of my greatest heroes. It was good enough for Marlon Brando. Well, I was old enough by then to actually accept something like that with a little sort of, you know, warmth or whatever, you know. So I did it for me.

I did it for my own reasons. I did it in my, it was my way of honoring, you know, one of the greatest actors that's ever existed, you know. You seem to be having a blast in the last Thor movie. I met Brett Goldstein recently. I hope we get to see more of Zeus and Hercules. Is there talk? Are you hopeful? Nobody's brought anything up with me, but, I mean, it seems like that's the idea at the end of the last one, right?

But I don't really know. Look, if you're a young actor and you get the opportunity to be on a set with Tycho Waititi, to take it, it's a lot of fun. He's a creative genius, but he's also just a lovely bloke. And I also, you know, I didn't know Chris Hemsworth very well at all, you know, before working with him. And, you know, I was really pleasantly surprised at what a good actor he is, you know, and he's got great comedy chops, man. He's just funny, you know, and he's a really warm, welcoming fellow. So we just went to town with that. I mean, you know, what you see when you're at the movie theater is this big, sumptuous.

amazing, you know, uh, set. But in reality, it's just me and Chris and a couple of carball boxes covered in blue shit, you know. Just bucking around, having good time, right? Yeah. Why not? Yeah. So, um, one other project I did want to mention that's coming up, um, on the flip side, a much different kind of vibe, I would imagine. I'm a big J.C. Chandor fan and you got a chance to work with him for this Craven film. Um, from what I gather, pretty grounded, practical sets. Did you enjoy the Craven experience? What can I expect? Yeah, well, you know, I mean, I got on with JC very, very well, you know, and we sort of like, you know, dine together a few times off set and everything and I'd pretty easy to say we're mates, you know. So I really, I really enjoyed, you know,

working on that for him playing a Russian, you know, that was a challenge. I did it once. I did a Russian accent once on Saturday Night Live and it's probably the worst Russian accent ever done on television um because i didn't really you know i didn't really think about it that much i just jumped off the cliff but um yeah i don't really know what to expect in that that movie you know mine is not a hugely significant role in that film i wouldn't uh think a significant role in the background of the main characters but not necessarily in the feature film this film popes exorcist i think it's smart in the way it's it's obviously a self-contained story it leaves you just enough that's like, oh, wait, we could go in another little, we could go on another

adventure. We could see where this goes next. And I feel like you have to thread that needle sometimes with films. And some, some films sometimes lay down the groundwork and get, they jump ahead a little bit too quickly. Like, hey, we're doing four, four more movies right away. It was that important to you to be like, yeah, this is a character I enjoy. Let's tease the audience, but let's not get ahead of ourselves at the end? Or how do you thread that? As you, as you probably know every single time anybody on a film production says we're thinking we might be able to make you know three or four of these you know you know that's it not going to have a sequel that's it done as soon as you just sort of say it out loud it's like you just put the kibosh on it you know um

but you know the central premise which i think is kind of clever you know because it's a biblical premise you know that there's 200 fallen angels you know and it says in the bible that they were cast to earth and they were driven underground you know so the the central premise that there's 200 physical places across the planet where god is not welcome or where evil sources from it's a pretty cool idea you know and you're ready for 199 more of these you have 199 more that's the joke that we had on the set you know i'll see you in episode 124 you know but who's who knows it really is is going to be up to an audience response if the audience jumps on this and they really like the adventure and they want to see it happen again the thing is you know there's little bits and pieces

that i brought to the character and one of which was choosing his mode of transport as being an old lamberetta scooter you know and there's been a couple of times where they put images of priest on a motor scooter out on social media and the response is gigantic you know i mean who knew people want to see a priest on a motor scooter. Who you? It's happened into something, yeah. Do you have another movie musical in you? I mean, Le Miz must have been a moment for you,

considering your love of music, your love of film, and marrying it together. I love being on that set, man. There was nothing, there was no more joyful set that I've ever been on than Lamez. Just the fundamental thing of all of us living inside that music and singing constantly together and just the joy of that.

It kind of like, it kind of transported me back. to my theater days in a way, you know, where, you know, you're sort of in a big cast and everybody's, you know, working on that same thing. And music is part of your daily routine. And so that was lovely. And it really forged a forever deep friendship with me and Hugh, with me and Anne, with me and Amanda, with me and Samantha Barks, Eddie Redmond, all of these guys. It's kind of like one of those things where, you know, you might not see each other regularly, but when you do that connection is very, very deep, you know, because we also got to share things like singing together at the Academy Awards, you know.

I mean, come on, that's... But here's the thing about that, right? Here's the thing about that, Josh. We'd never done that. We didn't do the musical. We did the film, right? So that opening sequence of the movie, you know, or that song, right, is shot nine, ten different places.

Of course. There were not any two individuals that sing in that song that sang in the same geographical proximity, right yeah and so camera mackintosh gets the offer from the academy awards yeah hey can the cast come and sing a song he goes great we'll do it right because he's thinking theatrically you know and this is this is different right yeah and so it came back to all the individuals and we're like we've never sung that song together we've never done that and they're like oh shit so then they had to organize this rehearsal time right So I think we rehearsed at Capital Records and... There's tape on YouTube of you guys rehearsing together.

I've seen that. It's like, yeah, yeah. And then we did, I think, two run-throughs at the Oscars. I'm not sure which building we were in for, but we did two run-throughs. And we never got it right, didn't get it right. The only time we did it right together as a group was when we were live in front of two billion people. Yeah, you're probably, you're not a guy that scares easily, I would imagine, but that would scare the shit out of anyone, I think, just to be in that element.

That's why you do it, man. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I do this job. It's the adrenaline hits. Yeah. That's what keeps you coming back. It's like when you're facing something, you think, oh, this is impossible, you know, I've got to learn, you know, a foreign language, and I've got to, you know, do it in this particular speed and under these circumstances or whatever, and, you know, then you do it, and it's done, and it's like, cool, you know, you manage to do it, but it's that adrenaline hit that is a really, you know, is the thing that drives you in the job, I think, you know. Okay, I'm going to let you go on this.

I promise you, Russell, you've been very generous with your time. Is there a sequel that's gotten away? Because, like, I'm greedy. I want the nice guys. I always wanted to, I've heard about the Nick Cave Gladiator script, which obviously sounded insane, but kind of amazing. It's kind of amazing. You know, the thing is we, at the time when I came up with that idea,

I was the one that brought Nick into that process, and I was the one that paid him to do a draft. You know, it's so odd because at the time when we discussed it, everybody else that we were involved with that wanted to do a straight-ahead thing. You know, no, he, you know, he gets injured, you know, in that thing, but they stick him in a cage, put on some freaking herbs, and three days later, they open a cave and out. It's a miracle.

You can't get the rights to that book, you know? Yeah, exactly. But, you know, the other side of that was, you know, this other idea that I had, well, okay, he's killed too many people to go to heaven, right? But he's too good a man to be cast into hell. So you meet Maximus, right? And it's like your, you know, refugee camp on the Somalian border, right? You don't know where you are, right? But when you meet him and you realize that he's in limbo.

he's stuck between worlds, you know, and the ideas that we had in order to get him back to Earth, and it was all justifiable and cool, and we could have done it. But, you know, these things require a whole bunch of people to be facing in the same direction, you know, and I was very, very busy, so I didn't probably give it the time at the time that I should have. But it's odd because a couple of years later, after the same people were refusing that, that was a cool idea, then they re-made. that old film from the 50s with Sam

Worthington, which is a similar idea where all those, you know, the gods come alive or whatever. Clash of the Titans, yeah, sure. Yeah. Clash of the Titans, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. And look, you know, there's a lot of characters that I've played that I'd be perfectly happy, you know, doing another episode in their lives. Wouldn't you like to see, you know, Bud White, you know, 60 years old walking down the street of some small Arizona town and something happens and he's got to go back to Los Angeles, you know.

Elroy's around. He can, he can make that happen. Come on. We've lost Curtis, but James is around. Did you ever see that film? Of course, sir. I'm like, you kidding. Of course. We had this whole idea, you know, that, you know, Ben Wade then goes across the border to the Pueblo who is talking about and, and he lives there, you know, off his riches until this one situation comes up where he has to pick up the gun again to defend his family, you know, and, um, and when he picks up a gun as we know uh things get pretty absolute with ben wade you know so i mean there's you know but that's part of that is the richness of the film in the first place you know and the types of directors curtis hanson and james mangold people like that you know

they set up a story in such a cinematic way that there's so many you know moving past that that it could have a second uh tale or whatever you know yeah i have to admit i'm slightly jealous um to the people who get to work with Ridley on the next gladiator because you know in the intervening years he's been thinking in the last 24 years he's been thinking oh i could have made that better i could have made that better and they're giving him a huge budget he's one of the greatest filmmakers to ever be in the business he's like working for tition or something he's like it's gigantic artists and they all go and get to have that experience that i had when i was a much younger man so you know pure human simplicity you know a little tinge jealous hey he's he makes three

movies a year you'll you'll work with him again don't you worry that can't i can't be stopped well it's been a long time though man it's yeah yeah since robin hood i guess probably right yeah 14 years since we made robin hood yeah um thank you man this is really honestly a true treat we just scratched the surface in an amazing uh career hopefully we'll have more conversations like this congratulations on the new film uh hope to see you in person if you come by the States some time. And thanks again, man. This has been an honor, truly.

Cheers, man. My pleasure. Look after yourself. And so ends another edition of Happy, Sad, Confused. Remember to review, rate, and subscribe to this show on iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm a big podcast person. I'm Daisy Ridley, and I definitely wasn't pressured to do this by Josh. The Old West is an iconic period of American history and full of legendary figures whose names still resonate today.

Like Jesse James, Billy the Kid, and Butch and Sundance, Sitting Bull, Crazy Horse, and Geronimo, Wyatt Earp, Batmasterson, and Bass Reeves, Buffalo Bill Cody, Wild Bill Hickok, the Texas Rangers, and many more. Hear all their stories on The Legends of the Old West podcast. We'll take you to Tombstone, Deadwood, and Dodge City, to the plains, mountains and deserts for battles between the U.S. Army and Native American warriors to dark corners for the disaster of the Donner Party and shining summits for achievements like the Transcontinental Railroad. We'll go back to the earliest days of explorers and mountain men and head up through notorious Pinkerton agents and gunmen like Tom Horn. Every episode features narrative writing and cinematic music and there are hundreds of episodes available to binge. I'm Chris Wimmer. Find

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