Happy Sad Confused - Sam Elliott

Episode Date: October 10, 2018

It's not just about the voice and the mustache but those two things certainly don't hurt. Sam Elliott is one of the last links to the old Hollywood system (he's quick to point out all the people from the early part of his career who are now dead). A former studio contract player, Elliott now finds himself at an unlikely point in his nearly 50 year career -- he might just be at his apex.  In this visit to "Happy Sad Confused", Elliott looks back at his beginnings -- his complex relationship with his father (get your tissues ready), his regrets over being too honest early in his career, how a role in "Robot Chicken" gave him a boost, and his recent career renaissance, from "Grandma" to "I'll See You in My Dreams" to "The Hero" and now a turn in "A Star is Born" that may just land him a ticket to the Oscars.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Please play responsibly. Today on Happy Sack Confused, Sam Elliott talks his award-worthy turn in a star is born. Hey guys, I'm Josh Horowitz. Welcome back to the show. Welcome to an episode starring The One, the Only, the man with that iconic mustache and that even more iconic voice, the great Sam Elliott. What a treat. If you have not seen a star is born yet, get with the program, guys. This is the movie everybody is talking about, and rightfully so.

It is now out everywhere, that soundtrack, that music, those performances, they are the talk everywhere. And I think they will be for the next bunch of months. Right now, if there is a frontrunner, and maybe I'm jinxing it, but if there is a front runner for the Oscars, put your money on a Star is Born, picture, actress, actor, and yes, a supporting actor, Sam Elliott, I would not be surprised, certainly for him to get a nomination, and I would not complain if he comes away with a gold statue for his performance in a Star is born. A real treat to get a, he is kind of an icon, Sam Elliott. He's the, you know, the sage-like presence in the Big Lobowski.

He's the man who kicked ass with Patrick Swayze in Roadhouse. And he is, in the case of a star is born, Bradley Cooper's wise older brother. And it's a small role. It's not, you know, he's only in maybe a half dozen scenes. But man, does he register in this and has some of the most emotional moments in the film? And he's just fantastic. This conversation, equally fantastic. Sam Elliott, you get the sense he does not suffer fools lightly.

He talks the talk and he walks the walk. He says what he feels. He'll be talk about that and how that maybe even got him into trouble early on in his career. I love these actors. I love the actors that just you can feel they don't have a filter. They talk from the heart. And someone like Sam Elliott, who's been doing this a long while about 50 years, he doesn't give a crap anymore in a way, you know, he'll say what he wants and he'll

suffer the consequences if he needs to. But this was a real treat, a real honor to sit with Sam Elliott for the better part of an hour. And I think you guys are going to enjoy this. Just to update you on the rest of my shenanigans in my life, if you were at New York Comic-Con at the Jacob Javitt Center, you might have seen me doing my thing. I moderated a bunch of panels. What a blast. I think most of these panels actually are available online. if you want to go back and look at them, sometimes without the exclusive footage, because I think they removed that for those that weren't in the room.

But last Friday night, I moderated the Netflix and Chills panel, which featured four different shows. It was the chilling adventures of Sabrina. It was the Dark Crystal. It was the haunting of Hill House and Umbrella Academy. And it was wild. It was a big night. It was hours of interviews, massive casts,

Mary J. Blige, Ellen Pais. age, everybody, everybody was there. The green room, you should have seen it, was about 45 people, not including publicists, handlers, managers. And it was one of the more intense moderating evenings of my life. But I, I had so much fun doing it. The next day, I moderated the Spider-Man into the Spider-Verse panel in which they showed the first 35 minutes of the new animated Spider-Man film that opens December 14th. And guys, this is going to make a gazillion dollars. I guarantee it. is excellent. Hardcore Spider-Man fans are going to love it. It stars for the first time. Miles Morales. Shemke Moore placed Miles Morales. And not only that, it has like half a dozen Spider-Man incarnations

voiced by the likes of Jake Johnson and Nicholas Cage. It's really cool. The animation is gorgeous. The panel was super fun. Lord and Miller of 21 Jump Street fame were there. Jake Johnson was there. Shameek Moore was there. Had a blast with that one. And then on Sunday, talk about. about a blast from the past. I reunited with some of my Twilight gang. It'd been a few years, but we celebrated the 10th anniversary of the release of the first Twilight film, and I moderated a panel with Catherine Hardwick, the director, Kellyn Lutz, Eddie Gethagie, and Jackson Rathbone, and it was surreal. It really was. It was like no time had passed. These guys were the same as I remembered them. They seemed to get a kick out of it. They were, you know,

Calvin was doing push-ups for the crowd. Jackson was dancing around. Catherine was being her kooky crazy, amazing self. It was super fun. And the crowd went bananas. We surprised them with a little message from Kristen Stewart and a live Skype interview with Robert Pattinson that I felt really badly about. The interview, the Skype connection, of course, turned out to be horrible. He was buffering in and out like it was like 1992 internet speeds. I don't know what was going on. Rob, a joke that he was using budget internet. I haven't followed up with Rob and his team. I only hope he wasn't frustrated. I hope he felt the love in the room. I think he did. The crowd went crazy. We only were able to make out, I feel, like, 30% of what Rob was saying.

But it didn't matter. The fact that he made the time to be there, a lot of, you know, I get all these crazy tweets, especially about Twilight, because it just engendered so much passion. People that claim that Rob and Kristen, you know, never like Twilight, that they distance themselves from it. And I think it really spoke volumes that both of them made the time in their own ways to be a part of the celebration. These guys do love Twilight.

They know what it did for them, and they love what the fans, how much it meant to the fans. So that was a particular treat for me, given how much I had covered Twilight in my career. So that's New York Comic-Con in a nutshell. I hope you guys, if you made it out in New York, you had a blast. And if you haven't been yet and you have the means, come on out to New York next year. Say hi. It's always fun. All right, let's move on to the main event.

Sam Elliott, I should say this isn't like, I want to call this like a spoiler conversation, but if you're like adverse to spoilers and one just go into a star is born totally untarnished, maybe wait a second, maybe see the film first. We don't, like I said, we don't talk like nitty-gritty spoilers, but we do talk specific scenes of Sam's and allude to things that are happening,

and it might just be more enjoyable for you if you've seen the film already. So that being said, you could say, spend 45 minutes doing a lot worse than listening to the delicious voice that is Sam Elliott's. So I hope you guys enjoy this conversation. Please remember to review, rate and subscribe to happy, say I confused, spread the good word so that more folks can catch conversations like this. And in the meantime, here he is, the man the myth of the legend, Sam Elliott.

I'm such an admirer of your work, sir. Thanks, Josh. And this film is getting the accolades it deserves. This is a special one. It is a special one, isn't it? I was just telling one of your gang here I saw it for the second time last night. I saw Toronto first. And in the heat of Toronto, it's like I saw it literally 20 movies, so I was there.

And it's hard to, like, judge. And I was very moved the first time. And I think the proof's in the pudding when you return to a film. And it just packs a while every time I see it now. Does this, I guess just give me a sense of sort of, has this happened for you before where a film has resonated in this way? Have you felt this kind of, this kind of attention, this kind of love? No.

I mean, I've been fortunate to be involved in a few films that I thought ended up being really. nice films. I've never had one that I thought was going to go over the dam in terms of box office like this one is. And I've never, I don't think, had one that resonated with me on some levels like this one has. I still carry it like right under the surface on an emotional level. If I start talking about certain elements of it too much or in viewing it, you know, it's ever present somehow. Yeah. I had some, you know, an opportunity to work with Bradley who I'd never known before and

get to meet Stephanie and get close with them. Like, if all the cards are right, you have the opportunity to do when you're working on a film and this one sure fit the bill for that. I'm curious, like when you, when you, at this point, having made as many films and television projects as you have. Like, do you approach something with optimism or pessimism at this point? I mean, you know all the cards are there. You know Bradley.

There was no denying that this thing was in the right hands. I mean, it's a bold move to make this time, this thing a fourth time, I think. Yeah. But in Bradley's hands and, you know, with this fresh take that he had on it and bringing Gaga into it, I mean, there was no doubt that this thing was going to be. something special. It's also bold in kind of its earnestness.

Like it's, it's, it's, in some ways, feels like not a film of these times, in these cynical times, you know?

And I think that's sort of, it's a film for this time. That's, I guess that that's true because it is so, because it is, stands out from, yeah.

You know, it's a throwback on some levels. Yeah. Is that, so did that strike you in reading the script that this was the heart, this heart was on its sleeve? Well,

it's there. I mean, it's on the page, but it's in the plane and the doing of it, that it became what it became. Yeah. You know, there are a lot of stuff that's on the page. You know, it's like... There's a long distance from the page

to the screen. It's a million miles. Yeah. You know, but again, in Bradley's hands, you know, this guy is clearly a genius of sorts. Yeah. You know, I mean, I've always, I didn't know Bradley. I'd never cross paths with him. I always admired

him as his work as an actor. But now, after having worked with him, it's just very clear. The guy's got a lot going for him well beyond the acting game. And he got it out of everybody. He was responsible for bringing

all the actors in. And he's the one that got the performances out of him. He's the one that sets the stage. it's a it's a it's a film about a lot of things but it's a film about like us love in all its forms um romantic love and and the love between um family members in your case between brothers that um have a have a quite a past that's alluded to it's not all spelled out but like i think which makes it nice in some way it leaves absolutely leaves it to the audience to see what they want to see in it yeah clear enough it's you know that it's a contentious relationship to say the least. Has been for quite a time. Yeah.

You know, the dad was a drunk and, you know, that Jack was identified with his dad or was close to his dad, more so than Bobby. And you know the mom was gone early on, you know, so. And that Bobby, being a bit older, had maybe more wherewithal to understand, like, the foibles of the father, perhaps. I don't think Bobby had any regard at all for the father.

Yeah. And I think, particularly as he saw his younger brother, kind of idolizing the dad that, you know, that became a real bone of contention for all of them. Yeah. For Bobby particularly. And as, you know, Jack says in the film, you know, you might have had the voice, but she didn't have what it took, you know. You didn't have anything to say, he says. You couldn't write any lyrics in other words.

That's damning thing to say to enough to a brother. Are you the type of actor that likes to kind of go into backstory and talk it out with a director or a writer or on your own to kind of flesh it out or is it all on the page again? We talked about it. You know, we talked about it before we got there. The one thing, Bradley, he mentions it quite a bit. And I think it comes from his work with Eastwood. And who else? Who else did he mention quite a bit?

It doesn't even matter at this point. I'm so fogged over from all this flapping of my lips. Don't worry. You're still more coherent than I, sir. Yeah, I'm not sure. But the thing that he talked about was, yeah, you come in knowing the material. Yeah. Knowing it cold.

Not, you know. Not still figuring it out. That's the way I am in that way. But when you get there, you just throw it all out. Right. And it's really understanding what you're there for. That's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, it's, it's, it's like the scene where I've drive him home from rehab, it comes at a point in a relationship, you know, and in the story where

that arc is pretty much complete, you know, what's going on between the brothers, and I think that, that, you know, that Bobby probably knows at that stage is that his brother, you know, he may be still hopeful, but I think that he knows his brother is on a collision course at that point. Yeah. And we talked about what we were going to say there, what was said on that drive a number of times. There was more to it.

There was more of the driving stuff, which got, you know, cut down right to what it should have been cut. Well, that's the thing about that scene, even in the end of that scene. Again, seeing it the second time, I was struck by, like, how small a moment it is and yet how effective it is. Oh, huge it is at the same time. It's a line and it's a reaction. And I had no idea of how he was going to phrase it. I didn't know what he was going to say.

I knew what the intention of it was going to be. I knew where it was going, but I didn't know that he was going to get out there and And it's him and haw. Right. And saying, he almost like dropped that voice that he'd been doing too, I thought, for that second. Oh, interesting. You know, I'll tell you it was really interesting about that moment. You know, I was, you know, very cognizant of it or enjoyed watching it throughout.

You know, I was only there bits and pieces because I came and went. but watching Bradley operate as an actor-director was fascinating and when he got out of the truck delivered that line in that powerful way that he did he turned away from the truck and somebody handed him a monitor and all of a sudden he was the director just switched it and he walked around to the front of the truck and was just sitting there looking at me and looking at this monitor

and I was totally where he was when he left me at that point. You're still in it. Turned around and tried to back out of that driveway. That driveway was like that, man. And that truck was miles wide.

A big ram charger with dual wheels. But that was, it's just to that guy's credit, man. He's a genius. It's amazing. He's a brilliant filmmaker.

Another of the scenes, you know, there's one of the big confrontations between the two of you, you grab his face. Is that, That's something that just happens in the moment? Is that something that...

Yeah, that happened in the moment. Yeah? That happened in the moment. I went after him, you know. We did that scene. That was the first day that I worked. That was my toughest job. My toughest day on the job.

Because you have to jump right into it. I just gotten off the ranch. I'm going to back up even further. There was a moment in time. I was on my last week of working on this Netflix thing to ranch. I'm talking to Bradley via TED. which we did a lot of. And it came down where I had a major conflict schedule-wise.

And I ended up telling I can't do the movie. There's a week before I was supposed to start. Or actually the week I was supposed to start. And I literally couldn't do it. I mean, they were out of Coachella. They were filming out there. Not like so you can move. Exactly.

and I was stuck in this show and it's a show we shoot at five and we work five days a week we're filming in front of a live audience on Friday nights he wanted me to come out there for three days and it was impossible it just wouldn't work and I just texted him and said hey man I can't ride two horses at the same time

sorry but it's not going to work out and he texted me back and he said I'm not giving up on you man I'm going to work it out and the next day they changed the schedule so cut to the end of that week I rapped on the ranch on Friday on Monday I drove

out to this place I don't even remember where it was got out of a car it was a giant parking lot maybe it might have been out of Santa Nieder one of those tracks somewhere I think that's where it was and they built this encampment which could have been on the moon

didn't matter it was supposed to be a Cachella and they'd had all these trailer's kind of in a circle a square with soft edges and then inside that there was this group of people just elbow to elbow I mean tons of people yeah this is my first moment on the set man and I had a speech like that that'll test you and I walk in there I was already nervous about just dealing with the words and but to walk into that situation and there were three cameras there not knowing anyone on the crew seeing all these extras and just all this shit really

and there's gonged bradley so we worked on it worked on it he punched me a half a dozen times i went to the ground half a dozen times there was a lot more to the scene really in the beginning part of it and it got pretty heated and bradley just said come on man he just kept killing me come on man come on between every take and so they got into that at the end and then I finally just grabbed a hold of them I said

you know that's when it was in tight that that's not the first take that's once it you built to that you got there yeah that came down the line but that's where it was all hidden and the rest of it was all bullshit it didn't matter in other words what happened to the dad

and why and all this stuff there's enough of it there where you get what happen. Right. But it's that eye-to-eye stuff in that angle that, you know, the DP figured out. That stuff in close is as powerful as it can get. And it gave you somewhere to go. First time I saw it, I thought, it might have been a little over the top. But then when I saw where the rest of the story goes, it's right. It's right to be that moment. Is that the kind of thing like that you can only, that it took you years to get to? that jumping into a project like that and jumping into a situation you just described,

that takes, you know, craft and skill and experience. Yeah, it took me a while. I remember one time I was up in, oh, man, I was up in Canada. I was doing a thing called You Know My Name. It was kind of a Western thing built on a guy named Bill Tillman, who was a real-life character. And it was a great script. I had this deal where I had to go into a bar and get up on a table and talk to this mass of people. And I totally went up on it.

I just, I was sweating and I was just, and I'm not a sweater unless I'm working out and then I sweat like a dog. But I just, I just got totally lost. Right. I went in and told the director, I said, man, I'm fucked. I don't know what I can do it. And so, you know, we just went in there and went through it a couple of times and I got back on track, but I just got so into my own head that it just, and there was no escaping, you know. I guess that's the key.

And I think it just takes focus. It just takes, you know. Getting out of your own way and not overthinking. You got to get out of your own way and you really got to, you've got to know it cold. If you have any hesitation, if I'm speaking to myself, there's some people, man. And, you know, I revel that people are totally admire people that can look at a piece of material and say, okay, let's do it. You know, that's interesting. Well, I tend to overthink things probably.

Always have said, you know, over the years of it ain't on the page, it ain't on the stage, you know, really kind of adhere to the script and the writer. Yeah. You know, he's got his function. He wrote a great script, you know. So you can get in too far, and I did on that. But this time with Bradley, it didn't matter, you know. It's like I said, with Bradley before, I mean, it's like, you might as well, you could just throw it out as soon as do what's on the page. You could just throw it all out as long as the right thing comes out.

I'm curious, like, your perspective on, you know, where your career has. has gone in recent years especially. I, like many, was a big fan of what you did in The Hero and your work with Brett Haley. And, I mean, it could be argued that you're getting some of the best opportunities

in kind of juiciest rules. Yeah, it's not one of her arguments. It's just their observation. That's the fucking truth. So what do you make of it? I mean, is it to sort of, have they come around to you? Have you come around to the right things?

I think I've just outlived them, you know? I think it's like a fucking war of attrition, man. There's not a lot of 74-year-old guys around, maybe, I don't know. I don't think that's that. I've just been lucky. I've just been lucky.

And there's kind of a, you know, there's a trail between one part to the next, you know. If I talked to you like five years ago, were you? Yeah, I was kind of in there. And I'll tell you where it was. It was I did this thing on, Jesus Christ. I'm terrible remembering names.

It's all good. There's this goofy thing that's on, it's an animal. animated thing. Okay. Robot chicken. Yes. I did this thing on robot chicken.

It was absurd. And I got nominated for an Emmy for it. And I went to the Emmy. I took my daughter. And Lily Tomlin was nominated in the same category for a voiceover on elephants as this thing she did of a National History Channel or whatever. it was. And we sat behind her. I'd never

met Lily before. But after she won the award, I was you know, got up and give her a hug and told her how happy it was to meet her and blah, blah. And about six months later, I got a call from a guy named Chris White's who directed at the Golden Campus.

I love. I love Chris. And Chris said, my brother's doing this movie with Lily Tomlin and there's a part in it that would you read the script? And I said, fuck yeah, man. Yeah, send it. And here came this script with this chunk in it that was like, man, man, what a part.

So I called him the next day and I said, man, tell your brother I want to sit down with him. And, you know, the character was described as having a real long, hair because he was a biker he was a biker on page but he became not a biker right i didn't have the hair i went and talked this gal ranata that you know bills all of shares wigs and has i was going to get a wig and do all this shit i remember her saying why you got beautiful hair why would you put a wig on you know anyway i went back and talked to paula and said hey man this wig thing and this biker thing And I'm not sure about all this.

And he said, it doesn't matter. It didn't have to be a biker. And I ended up what I ended up working on for the mechanic scene where he walks out of the kitchen and goes, I'm getting out of here. He's got to get out of here. It's all gotten too close for him. It goes outside and he starts working on this plastic Jeep that belongs to his kid. And it just happened to be there because we shot that at Paul's house. that job

started it robot chicken started from then on it was I don't know what the lesson is there it was grandma and grandma I think probably led to

I'll see you in my dreams I'll see you in my dreams which led to the hero and and off to the races I don't know where we go from here it's gonna be a tough act

to follow me and if this is the swan song I'm good with it I know. I said that all the way through doing PR on a hero, and I truly felt that way then. That was such a gift that Brett gave me, Brett and Mark Bash. I'm curious, you know, you, it's fascinating to look at your career because, like, you have links to the past that aren't abundant now. You were a contract player in the studio system, which I can't think.

of men we were a couple of the surviving few i think was that so was that beneficial to actors in your experience was that something to that was sought after even as it was dying in your youth or was it something that kind of happened on to it yeah it was the first meeting i had the first agent i had was a guy named dick baseman the first contact i had in town was a guy named bob thompson who was a casting guy universal they're both dead now they sent me Dick Bassman sent me to meet a lady named Lillian Gallo

at Fox Lillian's dead now she took me to meet the head of casting a guy named Dick Jack Bauer Jack's dead now I did an interview for The two of them

and Dick Zannick who I believe was also dead now Yeah he's definitely not alive You know and I got into this thing. But at the time, what was I doing? I was in a construction business, and I was going to a workshop at Columbia Studios,

and one of the gals that was there with me went and did that scene with me. It was a scene from Duel and his son, a Gregory Peck film. Anyway, it got me in there, and so it was great for me. And the program at Fox was pretty much of a joke. Nobody worked. There were a few, but, you know, it was mostly run on nepotism and, you know, that kind of stuff.

Girlfriends, boyfriends, and family members. Got it. My girlfriend at the time, who I met there, Melissa Newman, was of the Newman clan, the music bunch, and she and I were together for 10 years, actually until I met Catherine. Oh, wow. Yeah. So you've said before, and I think. I think it sounds like it's true and maybe, I don't know if it's hyperbole or not, but you talk about your dad not having much regard for your pursuit of acting.

None. Zero. He literally told me that classic line, you got a snowball chance in hell of having a career in that town. My dad was a guy that worked for a living. You know, he worked for the Fish and Wildlife Service, the Department of Interior for the federal government. He was an Eagle Scout in El Paso, Texas, which I didn't know until he was. dead. Never told me that. I was in a Boy Scouts when I was a kid in Sacramento. But he didn't want to hold that over me. That spoke volumes about my dad as far as I'm concerned. My mom's the one that told me that he was an Eagle Scout. He had this big thing, a sash full of merit badges,

and he gave it away to some other guy in Sacramento just to get it out of sight. He was a real man's man. I was going to say, because like... Predator and rodent control is what they did. They annihilated the coyotes and the wolves and anything else that ate a cow or a sheep. That was their world. And they went hunting every year and killed elk. I went with him a few times. I never enjoyed killing stuff.

I was always a great shot. Never enjoyed killing stuff. So I only went a couple of times with him. Never killed him, never shot any big game. So can you, how do you reconcile where your interest came from in terms of? I went to, there was a neighborhood theater in the beginning. This is kind of where it came from. And then there were a couple of influences in my family.

But there was a local theater very close to where I used to go, like, at Saturday Matanais all the time when I was growing up in Sacramento. And it was like stuff like, you know, serial films and, you know, that kind of stuff. Right. But I also saw my first John Ford movies there. And I remember the creature from the Black Lagoon, like, just bowled me over. I just thought, how the fuck is that guy doing what he's doing there? The creature, you know. I saw the thing was it water

whatever the title of that film was a couple years ago that came out oh yeah the shape of water sure yeah shape of water it just took me right back to that again anyway I just I was real quiet as a kid I was a loner

had a little campfire in my backyard but something about seeing film spoke to me enough to make me think that I could do that, that I wanted to do that. So were you able to say that out loud to your dad, or was it too much? No, I never knew because I started getting involved in plays and stuff. I never verbalized that to them. And then not until later on, way down the road when I was in high school.

My dad died when it was 54. I was 18. So you never saw it. He never saw any of it. And then, oddly enough, over the years, I've run into people on sets. One time I was doing some false-staff beer commercials in Nevada, a place called Fernley, Nevada, and this guy that was wrangling the horses, that's one of those moments that just gets me.

This guy looks up at me and he says, are you sure to Elliot's son? nobody called my dad shorty except for people in El Paso and I said yeah I am he said your dad was a great man and that took me back you know it still takes me back there's a lot of people and a lot of people I think oh your dad was such a hard case and this and that but he gave me such a gift I've spent my youth growing up in Sacramento when I was in the Sierra's all the time fishing and traveling with those kind of men. They were great examples. They all treated women with great respect.

Well, that's what you bring to, I think, all of your roles, which I think people so appreciate, is this kind of just inherent groundedness and respect. My mom was totally on the other side. My mom lived to be 97. My mom was a, you know, she was a school teacher in her later years, but she was a crack athlete. She went to school at the University of Texas at El Paso and grew up one of nine kids born in a place down around Uvaldi, Texas, a place with a dirt floor in it. you know came from extreme poverty grew up during a depression yeah went to college married my dad the day after she graduated in college and moved to this fucking little podunk place out out of marfa texas out in the middle of nowhere and i always thought

made probably a huge sacrifice in doing that and just i don't think she was ever very happy in some ways my mom I think she was happier after I started rolling along in my career and we spent a lot of time

coming and going in Hollywood I took her in locations she must have gotten such a kick out of it yeah she talked in newspapers about it

she was proud she was a proud mom she'd be tickled by what's going on now she would have hated robot chicken because I said fuck so many times

she would enjoy this podcast because of the language in it. I said, I didn't swear once. He said, it doesn't matter. Everybody else was. Who are your contemporaries growing up in terms of like your acting contemporaries? Are there any that I would know that of that kind of... Tom Selleck and I started exactly the same place at the same time under contract of Fox.

Really? Yeah. And we did a couple of films together. Something in the mustache water. And we grew the first month. Mustaches in that time, you know, I mean, this was after the 60s when everybody had hair down to their navel and hair all over their faces. But there weren't a lot of beards around the other, at that time when Tom and I started growing them. And then I started to grow my hair long. I always had long hair when I was a kid.

I was in a National Guard, and I'd go to the National Guard, I'd go to the meetings, and I'd put on a shirt-haired wig over my long hair. It was a trip. So, wait, your Golden Compass character is, like, the closest look to your youthful Sam Elliott? Didn't he have a, he had a mane on him, didn't he? Yeah. Yeah, there was, I did a show called Wild Times, and my hair was still dark, and I had this perfect, like, it was like a flowing mustache. It wasn't a ragged one. It was totally, it was like the, it was like a perfect mustache.

I actually think that that's why I got hired to do math. Shara had got a hold of one of those pictures. It was a great look. She thought, ah, there's my biker. There's so much to talk to. She might disagree with that. I'll follow up with her. We can't obviously hit everything, so I'm going to bounce around a little bit.

But I'm curious, like, your perspective on, you know, you've been in the business for about 50 years now. And you've been doing press for about 50 years now. And I'm curious, like, I've heard you talk about the good and the bad that went with the big kind of feature film launch, which was Lifeguard, and the insanity of how that was marketed versus what you thought you were making. Yeah, I really shot myself on the foot on that. Go ahead. Well, no, I'm curious, though, like, because you've been very frank in talking about that. You feel like you were, you were too open about... I was honest. You were too honest.

I'm pretty much, you know, I'm not afraid to be honest. I can tell. You know, I've been honest, I think, pretty much across the board. I think deceit is just a shithole to get in, you know. Well, it takes more effort. It's a no-win situation because it's going to come back at you at some point. So specifically what got you, you thought you had a bad reputation at some point? Dan Petrie, a guy named Dan Petrie, who was a really well-thought-of director.

directed some brilliant stuff directed that film and a guy named Ron Clauslow wrote the script anyway we do this story and it's really kind of a coming of age story about this guy that's torn between succumbing to all the pressure

from people saying when are you going to get off the beach man when are you going to get off the beach I know people that are lifeguards my parents were both lifeguards in El Paso Texas a place called Washington Park I have friends that have been in the county and the city lifeguard service for years.

It's like being in the police department. It's an admirable profession. This character, Rick Carlson, was a lifeguard and didn't want to be anything else. So then the movie comes out. The one sheets, a picture of me and a pair of Speedos and a big busted girl on either arm. There were no big busted girls in the movie.

Right. You know, it was Kathleen Quinlan and Anne Archer were the two ladies. It was Kathleen's first film. I went on the press trail. In those days, you carried press kits with you, or they were that thick, and there were fucking boxes of them that would go with us on these things. Invariably, you'd go into these situations, and it was like a day here, a day here, a day here in those days. It wasn't come and do it and junk it in one spot.

Has it's pros and cons? You go in, the person you're going to meet with the next day, sees the movie that night, and invariably, you know, I can say 90% of the people that I interviewed with would start the interview with. This movie isn't anything like I thought it was going to be based upon what they'd seen. And I said, yeah, I know. And set you on that. You could talk for a few minutes on that one, I'm sure.

forever and did and you know never worked at Paramount again and by your choice or by their choice you think there was a couple of characters there there was a couple of characters there that impose themselves upon me for various reasons and I also said how I felt about that at the time you know I have a lot of gay friends please don't misunderstand that But it's like when somebody pushes themselves upon you, then, you know, no thanks. Bob Thompson, Dick Bassman, those guys were both gay as well. And there were guys involved in the beginning of my career. I probably wouldn't be sitting here talking to you without them.

Yeah. You know, I mean, it's not about that. It's about presentation. Right. You know. Where are you at right now in terms of honesty and in the press? Like, if you and Bradley, for whatever reason, hadn't gotten along on this one, would you have, would you say that? I mean, is that something that, like, have you learned your lesson way back when from the lifeguard, or is it?

No, I'm still pretty honest. I've got nothing to hide. Yeah. I don't feel like I have anything to hide. Yeah. You know, if I'm going to sit here and talk about that, what I just talked about, you know, which I probably shouldn't even mention to anybody, but what the fuck. In this world we're in. You know?

it's true I mean it's like no holds barred on summit level and I've conducted myself and as far as I'm concerned of upright manner and you know I thank my parents for that and I got nothing to hide yeah nothing to apologize for what you see is what you get and you know if you got to bullshit people to get ahead then I want to get ahead right it's been a great run and like I said if this is this one's wrong then this is It's okay. A couple more to hit. You mentioned Mask, which still holds up as an exceptional piece of work from Peter Magnanovic and you and Cher and Eric Stoltz. I love Peter. I'm just curious of the environment on the set of that. It was contentious.

Because, yeah, there are stories of him and Cher. Peter and Cher had their rub. You know, Cher was a pretty strong gal. You know, particularly at that time, man. She was pretty feisty. Mm-hmm. But it was an incredible thing for me. I mean, that was just, that thing can.

came so out of the blue. I was doing a yellow rose with Sybil Shepard, who was Peter's girlfriend. I went into a makeup trailer one morning, and Sybil says, I saw Peter last night. He said, he's doing this thing with Sherr, and he's looking for a Gary Cooper on a motorcycle. So I threw your name in.

So thanks, you know, thinking, sure. And then, I don't know, it was a couple of weeks later, I was over in Hawaii getting married, and Catherine and I were on. our honeymoon and I got a call from my agent Ron Meyer and he said Peter wants to meet you on this movie he's doing and I said well

can I come and see him when I get back and now he wants to see you like tomorrow or the next day I said Ronnie my honeymoon man what the fuck so I said no I can't make it like an agent would do don't let a honeymoon get in the way of business Ronnie knew me anyway by then

he knew I was again say what i feel right blah blah but unbeknownst to me i told katherine about it and she went up to this place we're staying a place called the conno billies what is isn't even on the map anymore got wiped out in the tsunami the big one but she went up there and called from the desk called ron mire and said i'll get him back and we ended up going back and i had the meeting and it was an amazing set to be on. To see Peter and Laslo and Covex. A great cinematographer.

Oh, holy shit. It was like watching Bradley and the cinematographer on this thing. It was just, you know, it was to see a director and a cinematographer so in concert, it's just a lovely thing to watch.

So instructive or so, you know, it's incredible. How much did Lobowski change your audience? Do you feel like you found a new kind of stoner appreciation kind of a thing? Probably. I don't know. I think I've got a pretty diverse audience because I've done a lot of different kind of films.

I've been really lucky this stuff that's come my way. I mean, I've been lots of films that spoke to kids, that spoke to children, you know, and older people at the same time. But, yeah, maybe the Big Loboski was different. The irony of the Big Loboski is... I was down in Texas. doing a picture with John Millius. It was a television thing

was like four or six hour thing for TNT called the Rough Writers. That's like a two hour conversation I want to have about John Millius another time. He's a character. I love to have that one too with you. Anyway, I get this script and I know that it's from the Cohen Brothers and I was so excited

to get, it came to the set. I was so excited to get off the set and go back and read it. Because I was there doing yet another western and I thought, aha, I'm finally going to shake this fucking western film. And I get in the room and I started reading it. In the first page, there's something about a voiceover sounding not unlike Sam Elliott. And in the background is playing tumbling, tumbleweeds.

And I just thought, what the fuck? And then when he shows up, here's this drugstore cowboy-looking guy, looking not unlike Sam Elliott. I thought, wow. But at that moment was when I stopped grousing about being boxed into the Western thing. If you're going to do it. I just realized how great it had been to me. I'm shocked you and Clint have never crossed paths in a film.

Yeah, me too. I'm often sorry about that. Somebody told me one time Clinties was never going to put you in one of his movies. I mean, the guy was so matter-of-fact about it, and I thought, wow. Your manliness might blow Clint's madliness off the story. I don't really know what it was. It somehow made sense to me then. It's never made it sense to me since.

Tried to get him to direct a Louis L'Amore thing that my wife and I did, a thing called Conninger one time. We went out kind of to him. I met him one time. Met his son-in-law recently. His son-in-law was a wood carver, a chainsaw wood carver, and an artist. Not just a woodcarver.

This guy's an artist, and he carved a Smoky the Bear for me. Amazing. Stacey. One or two other things before I let you go. A film that I feel somewhat underappreciated, I really enjoyed you and the film The Contender. You and Jeff Bridges, with Rod Worry, directed it. Definitely a change of pace. Like that talking about not being boxed in.

That was an intentional thing, and that was like that followed the big Lobowski. oddly enough I couldn't figure out really how I fit into that because it was this Washington story and I remember talking to Rod I said how do you see me

how do I fit into this how do I play the chief of staff to the president he said I don't know and he said I was watching the big Lebowski the other night and I just want to see you more of you and the dude And he was like, I didn't know if he was serious or not But anyway, he wrote this thing

I wore three pieces suits I shaved my mustache off Cut my hair off And then we got to the set and I said So you want me to make an effort to get rid of this South in the mouth thing That Dan Petrie used to always call it We're doing a lifeguard You're sounding a little south in the mouth

Do you do that again? I try to get rid of it Anyway Rob said no He said no man He says, you're the chief of staff, but you're from Texas or you're from the Southwest or somewhere. Contender was fun. Felt in love with Joan Allen on that. Oh, what an actor.

Just killed me. She just killed me. I remember one day on the set with, there was a, there was this, we had this really sweet little piece where we're pretty, pretty heated up. There was a long break between the setup and the filming of it. I think we rehearsed it a couple of times. Everybody left the set, and Joan and I both stayed there and just glared at each other, not really glaring, just checking each other out, sizing each other up.

And we came back in. It was like 20 minutes or something. We were just sitting there looking at each other. And then out of that came one of my favorite films and favorite working experiences on Off the Map with Joan. That just came up recently Was J.K. Simmons in that as well? Yes. I just ran into J.K.

I had my boyfriend in it. He was talking about my boyfriend, but my solid Amigo. Nice. Yeah. Yeah, he's in Jason Reitman's new film when I ran into him. I had to something for that. I love Jason.

Of course, you've worked with Jason as well. There's never enough time, and hopefully you'll come back on the next one. I'll luck to. This has been... Oh, it's fun to talk to somebody who knows what they're talking about. Hey, I appreciate your work, man. and I appreciate your honesty and your forthrightness

and most of all just what you've contributed to cinema. Like I'm, as you can tell, I'm a fan. Very kind. And congrats on the film. Thanks, yeah. Appreciate it. And so ends another edition of Happy, Sad, Confused. Remember to review, rate, and subscribe to this show on iTunes

or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm a big podcast person. I'm Daisy Ridley, and I definitely wasn't pressure to do this by Josh. Hey, Michael. You want to tell him, or you want me to tell him? No, no, no. I got this. People out there.

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After a brief hiatus, my good friend, Michael Ian Black, and I are coming back. My good friend, Tom Kavanaugh, and I, are coming back to do what we do best. What we were put on this earth to do. To pick a snack. To eat a snack. And to rate a snack. Nemptively? Emotionally.

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