Happy Sad Confused - Samuel L. Jackson, Vol. III (Live), Sebastian Stan, Vol. II

Episode Date: March 15, 2022

It's a jam packed episode of the podcast this week! First up is a brief catch up with Sebastian Stan about his surprising new thriller "Fresh". But make sure you stick around for the main event, a special live taping of the podcast with the legend that is Samuel L. Jackson! Josh and Sam cover a ton of territory, from his humble beginnings, his stint in rehab, his triumphs in "Jungle Fever" and "Pulp Fiction", and of course his turns in "Star Wars" and the Marvel films. Jackson also chats about his passion project, the new Apple TV+ series, "The Last Days of Ptolemy Grey". Don't forget to check out the Happy Sad Confused patreon here! We've got exclusive episodes of GAME NIGHT, video versions of the podcast, and more! For all of your media headlines remember to subscribe to The Wakeup newsletter here! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Ontario, the wait is over. The gold standard of online casinos has arrived. Golden Nugget Online Casino is live. Bringing Vegas-style excitement and a world-class gaming experience right to your fingertips. Whether you're a seasoned player or just starting, signing up is fast and simple. And in just a few clicks, you can have access to our exclusive library of the best slots and top-tier table games. Make the most of your downtime with unbeatable promotions and jackpots that can turn any mundane moment into a golden, opportunity at Golden Nugget Online Casino. Take a spin on the slots, challenge yourself at the

tables, or join a live dealer game to feel the thrill of real-time action, all from the comfort of your own devices. Why settle for less when you can go for the gold at Golden Nugget Online Casino. Gambling problem call connects Ontario 1866531-260. 19 and over, physically present in Ontario. Eligibility restrictions apply. See Golden Nuggett Casino.com for details. Please play responsibly. D.C. high volume, Batman. The Dark Nights definitive DC comic stories adapted directly for audio for the very first time.

Fear, I have to make them afraid. He's got a motorcycle. Get after him or have you shot. What do you mean blow up the building? From this moment on, none of you are safe. New episodes every Wednesday, wherever you get your podcasts. Prepare your ears, humans.

Happy, Sad, Confused begins now. Today on Happy Sayer Confused, a special live event with Samuel L. Jackson, plus a catch-up with Sebastian Stan. Hey, guys, I'm Josh Harowitz. Welcome to another jam-packed edition of Happy, Sad, Confused. So much entertainment for your ears today, guys. I don't know what to tell you. This is a good one.

This is a special one. So here's what we got cooking for you. First up, as I promised, a little catch-up. This is like, I don't know, 15 or 20 minutes, just catching up with our good friend, Mr. Sebastian Stan. He has had a busy couple months. He recently appeared in Pam and Tommy, which just ended its run. You can still catch that on television.

But more to the point, his new film has just dropped on Hulu. I believe it's also in some theaters. It is called Fresh. It is a wacko kind of surprising drama comedy horror film. It's one of those films that the less said about it the better. I went in pretty cold, not knowing much about it, except that Sebastian was in it. And really he's really the co-star. The leading lady in the film is Daisy Edgar Jones, who you might know from normal people and some other stuff.

So anyway, it's a relationship story that takes some surprising turns, Sebastian's character. It may not be what he seems to be, but see, I don't want to say, I feel like I'm already saying too much. All you need to know, a cool, weird, kind of fucked up movie, called Fresh is on Hulu. It's ready for you right now. Watch it, check it out. It's another great performance from Sebastian, and it afforded us the opportunity to have a little catch-up. And Sebastian, I've done a lot with over the years. He is always a delight.

I know you guys hearing from him, so I felt like, you know, even if it's a shorter conversation, we don't have time for the big one, it's always worth catching. up with him. So you can enjoy that. That's first up on the podcast. So after that conversation, though, is a big old career conversation with a guy that really merits a career conversation. We did another live event. As you guys know by now, I've been starting to do these. I did one with Sam Hewin about a week and a half ago. And now we have the Samuel L. Jackson event, which was such a Delight. So cool. Samuel L. Jackson has done it all. I mean, he is the $27 billion man. Yes, that's how much his films have roost, the most by far of any actor. He has been in franchise movies. He's been in cool indie movies. He's worked with Tarantino and Spike Lee many times,

and he's kind of the king of cool. He has the swagger. He has the attitude, and he's got the chops to back it up. And the conversation at the Y was just fantastic. We really dug deep into his beginnings, into his personal difficulties. He's very open about that. I mean, the man had some really severe substance abuse issues before getting it together in his early 40s and then seeing his career take off. It's kind of an inspirational story. He has starred now in a new series that's on Apple TV Plus. It's just debuted. The first couple episodes, I believe, are on there right now. I've watched the whole thing. It's called The Last Days of Ptolemy Gray. It's an intense show, guys. It's a drama. It is based on a Walter Mosley book. It does

have some whiteness as it goes. Stick with it. But at the center of it, it features just another dynamite performance from Sam Jackson, who plays the character of the title, Ptolemy Gray, who is an elderly man in his early 90s, who suffers a loss. is also suffering dementia, real stuff. And we kind of see him get the opportunity to recall parts of his life that he hasn't been able to. And it's a real great character portrait. It is a passion project for Sam.

His life has been touched by many family members who've wrestled with Alzheimer's and dementia. And it's great to see him sort of like flex this different side of himself. Because certainly he's done the Marvel and the Star Wars stuff, and I love that stuff. But it's also cool to see him do kind of like real juicy, dramatic work. And he's getting rave reviews for it. He's getting an honorary Oscar in just a few weeks.

So, yeah, this was a really special event. The one thing I will say is you'll hear us reference the fact that the audience at the 90 seconds Streetwide has just seen the first episode. But don't worry about that. The conversation is broad enough that I don't think you'll have to have seen. any episodes of the show to really get something out of it. Certainly if you want to check out the first episode before listening to our chat, all the better, but no prior homework is required. So that's the show. Lots going on. I'm going to get right to it, even though there's always other stuff to talk about. I want to, you know, get right to the main events, two main

events today. As always, I want to remind you guys, check out our Patreon page because we have video versions of both these conversations there. You can watch the hour-long chat with Sam Jackson, You can watch the chat with Sebastian and Stan. You can watch our Game Nights. We have a new Game Night up with four of the stars of Outlander, Sophie Skelton, Cesar Damboy, Rick Rankin, and did I say Sophie Skelton? And Lauren Lyle, those are the four. Yeah, that was so much fun.

Check that out. We also have a new episode of Game Night going up any day now. I'll say it here. Why not? Because I'm really excited about it. It's with three of my favorite comic actors. Karen Killam, Sam Richardson, and Ike Baranholtz. Sam and Ike are starring on the After Party, and that's a really, really fun game night.

Maybe my favorite one. Don't tell the other actors that I've been on. But it's one of my favorite ones. I'll say that. Anyway, that's patreon.com slash happy say I confused. The link to that is in the show notes. Is that it? I don't know.

Too much going on, guys. Let's get to our first conversation. You're going to hear me and Sebastian Stan, and right thereafter, you're going to hear me and Mr. Samuel L. Jackson, live at the 92nd Street Y. Here's me and Sebastian. We don't have time for the whole podcast, but Sebastian stands here for just a little amuse-boosh, a little, I needed to give a little love to this crazy,

fucked up movie that you did, man. This is a special one. Right. I don't remember if that's, we had, I guess we were taught, we talked about another thing last time I saw you. It was Pam and Tommy. Yeah, yeah.

Oh, right. Yeah, okay. Yeah, yeah, which obviously, continues as well. But this one, man, this caught me off guard. And I think it's, I'm debating like, what do people, what should people know going in to fresh? I mean, you're the, you're the star, only with Daisy. What do they need to know? I think the less, the less is better, I think, you know, because, because it's sort of as a movie that plays on expectation and projection and kind of the misconception that we often make about people and what we think,

how we think things will turn out and then they don't. To say the least. Yeah. Are you a good judge of character right off the bat? Can you read somebody be like, oh, this is a good person or this is, there's something? I think, yeah, I mean, there's certain things that I feel really, right? I mean, red flags. That kind of we know off the bat.

But the subtler cues, I think, are difficult. I mean, I'm sure there's always, you notice with yourself, like everybody, we sort of have these patterns sometimes of certain energies or certain people that you attract, and then you kind of have to kind of feel back and figure out why. But I guess with age, I've gotten a little bit better at that, you know? Well, and I bet you can apply that. I'm just thinking about this off top of my head, like to this kind of thing,

of talking to journalists and talking to reporters. it's like you probably have a nose by now for the ones that are like oh they're they're they're going to corner me they're they have it they have an angle here and there's a little bit of a i don't know that i don't know that that i'm not so sure i'm not so sure anymore with with journalists i i just i think i always just kind of try and stick keep an open mind there you know but i think but i definitely feel that uh even sometimes it's like people will walk up to me now randomly and just start talking because he'll be like, oh, we should talk. And I'll be like, this is nice. But why should we talk? I mean, because I guess I'm the guy,

you know, I was the thing. But, but, but, it's interesting because we all, we all have a way to sort of, you know, you learn how to, you learn this in high school when you're a kid, right? You learn kind of the things that work for you or that don't, you know, even with teachers or authority figures or other friends, you know, to be cool or to be accepted or whatever, you sort of pick up certain things that you feel are if you put them forward

are going to make you more approachable, more acceptable or whatever. And so we all have those character things that we do that maybe are not really intrinsically truthful to who we really are or how we really behave when we're finally with someone for a longer period of time. But this movie is very much based on

kind of that initial intense connection that you might have with somebody, which can feel honest in the moment. But then, you know, as more time goes by, you wonder how compatible you really are.

Yeah. If there's a message here, it's never trust the super charming guy in the grocery store. There's... Exactly. Look around, I mean, you know, they meet on in the vegetable section, which one would think is a safe place to meet. It's not sort of, you know, in the medical aisle or any other. So, but still, vegetables still a problem. Now we know.

So, yeah, we're dancing around it and I'm going to continue to because like I said, I think the best way, at least from my perspective, going in, is to know as little as possible. But Daisy Edgar Jones is on the dating scene. She meets the dashing Sebastian Stan. in the grocery aisle in the yeah in the vegetable aisle things are not necessarily what they seem and it takes some really amazing turns for her your character um and i mean i'm a sucker drive my car did this too recently where they dropped the credits like 30 minutes into the film i'm like yeah that was that was definitely uh credit there goes to our director mimi cave who i thought had figured that out so brilliantly in in kind of with the movie and just i think with

her editor halfway through, they just were like, you know, this might be a really fun way to kind of pull the rug from underneath people. So, and it's effective. Yeah. When it works, when a filmmaker knows how to do it in the right way, it's so great. Like, I mean, when you think back, I know you're obviously a movie buff like myself. Like, are there some, like, big twist moments in film history that jump out at you that, like, knocked your socks off that blew your mind, whether it's a twist ending, whether it's, you know, old school psycho killing Janet Lee like what's what are the kind of like moments of film that stick up for you I'm trying to think I mean right off the top of my head right now I don't know why my mind just

went a sliding doors remember that movie yeah that's kind of an interesting movie because you think how those little coincidences or are they coincidences sort of can throw your life in in one way or not um I have to think about that I mean I guess there were a lot of thrillers growing up that, you know, like, Silence of the Lams, I mean, fatal attraction. There were, there were some in the 90s, right? There were some of those thriller movies that had sort of themes like that we're exploring. Yeah. This one, I mean, we were talking about this one.

We were talking about Pam and Tommy. These two projects, they don't share much in common, except I would say they're both big swings for you and they're audacious kind of like, you know, if you're going to do it, you have to like commit 150 percent. do they i mean when you look back at the at the most satisfying acting experiences for you is there like a correlation between like really putting yourself out on a limb like kind of like chasing the fear and satisfaction as an actor i yeah absolutely because i don't i don't really quite know if satisfaction as an actor is ever really achievable i i really don't i i keep thinking

that it's going to get to this place where you're you know you feel fully satisfied but i actually think that's a good thing i would be more scared of getting to a weird satisfied place because then i feel like you'd get comfortable and sort of complacent or something but so i i do i do enjoy things that are that that feel very uh raw or or they feel sort of that they're scary in a way um it's usually a good barometer for me to kind of in terms of maybe deciding to commit to something, especially something that I don't know enough about or I feel feels very, very alien or foreign to me. Then there's a challenge there and sort of peaks the curiosity and you want to go and explore and learn and sort of it's kind of, that's what it is. It should be always some kind of learning.

It's crazy because I don't, I was not like the greatest student in high school. I never, I didn't really particularly enjoy kind of going home and like studying or learning something. But now I'm much more, I'm much more curious to kind of want to, it helps when you're, when you want to learn things, you want to learn about people or things or circumstances, you know. Let's dip in our toe into the other side of your life that is always there, the, the Marvel side. I'm just curious as an actor, do you have a handle on like, there's so much out there.

even as a fan, I have trouble now keeping up with everything and understanding the multiverse and what's happening and who's where and what's what? Like, I'm just curious for you, do you feel like you have a handle on the MCU right now on what's happening? I certainly do need to do some my, some catching up myself. I know I'm a little behind on a couple of things, but, but I, yeah, I, I'm so always amazed and in awe of, of just a massive, universe of it all that that sort of they were able to build that Kevin kind of came up with and and because it it does span over 10 12 15 you know so it's a lot of years that went into the making and so I always get a little nostalgic about that but I think it's an evolving thing

and I think you do have to keep up to date with it but then I also feel like they do such a great job immediately filling you in even if you've sort of missed out something but But it doesn't sound like people are missing out. I mean, people are being pretty connected to it. So have you ever done scenes where you don't? I mean, I always have to catch up on Tom Hiddleston. Because I know he's always out there taking, playing some self. Of course, of course.

Have you ever done a scene where you don't even understand, like, what you're saying? Like, you don't understand the context of the words. And you're just like, someone on set just has to be like, Sebastian, I just need you to say, I need you to grab the. amulet from this place. Trust me, it will make sense later. No, I can't. I have to, I have to understand what I'm doing, which is why the vendors and end game

was really kind of tough when we were shooting it when we started shooting it because, you know, a lot of us didn't read the scripts. I think there were only a few people that I'd read them and I was like, fuck, I can't, you know, I just have to, I mean, granted, it was the Russo's and there were a lot of trusting people, but there was um i'm usually i need to know what's going on so i can kind of yeah what when it went when the marvel tenure is officially done or is that going to be i would be i would imagine it's going to be a mixed bad because you have this kind of security blanket now where like you know like every six months a year 18 months you're going to go back to something that has this like insane fan base that will

always be there for you at the same time you want to flex these other muscles like there must be a bit of a yin and the yang of like where you're at now with marble give me a sense of like what you're feeling about that place in your life right now i'm it really is a day at a time and and and i i i this is not this is not a uh a job that i ever felt um there you know there's a security blanket because it just every time it's it's sort of you're lucky to kind of get another round at it, another, another kind of swing at it, whatever the job may be. And it's so difficult to make, I feel like, projects that even people respond to or that they see, because there's a lot going on out there. You could work on something that's unbelievable.

You put your heart into it, then nobody sees it. And it's heartbreaking and it's other in another way. But then, of course, if you're lucky to be part of something that people respond to, there's a very gratifying feeling but it's not um because so much of it is out of my control all i can really control is sort of um what's what's 10 feet in front of me and so and kind of that's how i focus i just sort of focus on what's going on now and and hope for the best have i have i lost you from new york have you moved what's what's home base for you now buddy no no no i can't ever leave new york okay good that's not happening um i see a little sun out there. So the spring is coming. Come back, buddy. It's beautiful here. It's time. I'll be ready for

spring and summer. Absolutely. And what's in the can beyond fresh right now? Did you do the film with Brady, Brady Corby? No. I mean, that one we're still trying to mount off. There's a couple projects like that that I've been really passionate about that sort of still have to find their home and their financing. I'm just really excited for people going back to the movie. movies. Obviously Batman this weekend. I really want to see that. I mean, again, Spider-Man, people went to see that. People went, people are going to the movies again. So I'm hopeful that we can continue to do that because I think it's been a tricky time for a lot of projects to sort of find a home and find out whether they're going to go that theater route or, you know,

go on the streamers because our business has changed. and stuff. I mean, I think with Fresh, we're very lucky in a way. I know, I know Mimi and Pavel, our DP, sort of shot the hell out of it. I mean, there is an experience of this movie on a big screen because we saw test audiences go into the theater and see this film. And there's that communal kind of response that selfishly, I'm a little sad. We might not get. But I'm excited for people to still see it in any way, shape, or form. So, but we can't lose the movie. We can't lose the movie theater, you know, we need to kind of, there's something

about going there and sitting there in the dark for two and a half hours or in some cases, three, where, um, where you're just not looking at your phone and you're, and with friends. And it's this thing of just kind of like, are you seeing this, you know? No, as you can imagine, you're, you're preaching to the converted buddy. Um, last thing for you. Uh, I'm, I'm doing a special event soon with, uh, Samuel L. Jackson soon. I'm curious. You've worked with Sam a bunch, obviously in the Marvel films,

but also in another film. What's it like to hold the screen, to hold the scene with Sam Jackson, who from my experience, man, he's an intense dude. He does not suffer fools. What's it like working on set with Sam Jackson? How do you keep up with that man? I, well, I think it's, obviously, it's, you've got to bring your A game. I mean, he's not, he's going to probably, he's going to be there on time. He's going to know all his lines. He's going to know your lines. And you've got to be there in the moment with him. Because if not, you'll get lost and you'll get left behind. But at the same time, I feel that he has fun. And I think he enjoys the movies. And I think, and he loves going to see the movies after. He actually sits. I remember he saw

all the Winter Soldier movies and the Avengers and stuff, he's seen it every time. And there's something really kind of amazing about that. So he enjoys it. And I think he loves it and he loves working. But so as long as you kind of keep some fun and keep an open mind there, I think it's a very gratifying experience. But I don't, yeah, he's done so many great movies.

It's just crazy when you look back. Oh, this is a cool thing. You're doing this thing one-on-one with them. Yeah, we're doing some live events here in New York at the 92nd Street Y for a podcast. So next time you're in town, buddy, let's make it happen. I love the 90-second Y. And, you know, the energy of the live audience. It's nice to talk to you in a Zoom box, but sometimes a big crowd.

It's fun to feed off of that. That would be great. If you do something there, of course, that would be great. Amazing, amazing. Thanks for the time, as always, buddy. You're on a great run, man. All these really cool, weird, fun projects. Everybody should check out fresh.

It's on Hulu. I think it is getting a bit of a theatrical also from Fox Searchlight. Check it out however you can. And I'll see you on the next one, buddy. I really appreciate it, man. Yeah, I hope it's not too long, but hopefully in person. Definitely, definitely. I'll see you on the New York Street.

All right. Hi, guys. Thank you. Hello, New York. Hello to our virtual audience watching at home. Welcome to another very special live edition of Happy, Say I Confused at the Ninety Second Street, why? Yes. This is a very special evening indeed.

This man has brought more joy, I think, to me than any other actor I can think of. He has the resume of dreams. I mean, his collaborations with Spike Lee, Quentin Tarantino, M. Night Shyamalan, his work in franchises like Marvel, in Star Wars. He's getting an honorary Oscar way overdue this year. He's starring, yes. He is starring in a true

passion project from the great Walter Mosley, the last days of Ptolemy Gray debuting on Apple TV Plus. You guys here in New York have just seen the first episode. You know it's a special piece of work. Let's bring him out. The Man, the Myth, the Legend. Mr. Samuel L. Jackson.

Wow, people. Good evening. They like the show. They stayed. How was that? You stayed, yeah. Good. It gets brighter, believe me. It's a little triggering that first episode, but it gets brighter. I can attest that. I've been privileged enough to see the whole series. It's a great piece of work, man. Thank you for the time tonight.

I'll start with this. In a recent profile, Sam, you said, quote, people are always calling me about doing a podcast, but I can't talk for an hour without saying something effed up. I'm pretty sure I didn't say that. I've got you for the hour, so good luck to you. Okay, all right. I'm doing my best. Let's start with this great show. As I said, it comes from a work by Walter Moseley, one of our finest writers. You know, there are different reasons to do different projects, and I know this one goes back 10, 12 years. Talk to me about how you first encountered the material and why it was something that you were so passionate about.

I don't know. I don't know how I first encountered it. I read a lot, unfortunately, I guess. Or fortunately for me, it keeps my mind. and it keeps that thing away from me, I hope. But I'm sure I read a review of the book somewhere and I just downloaded it to my Kindle and read it. And I was in the middle of episodes

of Alzheimer's and dementia with my grandfather and watching him deteriorate as he got worse and got to a point when he finally passed and my mom started to, and then her sister and her brother had already been through it. So I realized I was in the middle of something like that and reading that story didn't give me insight to what was happening in their heads,

but it gave me a compassionate thought about how I needed to react to what was going on with them in terms of what they taught me and the compassion and nurturing nature of my life through those people meant that I had to learn how to use those things that they had given me to be with them.

Right. Or to make their last days somewhat of a comfort. And in the middle of that was, you know, that little mystery of who did what, you know, or what's what is the thing that's driving

Ptolemy, the thing that bothers him most that makes Coy Dog continue to come and bug him and nanner in his ear all the time. And I thought it would be a great, you know, movie. and then even better character study for me as an actor. Yeah, there's a lot to chew on here.

And as you'll see as the series goes, we're seeing this man at different stages of his life, at different vitality, et cetera. But talk to me, like, I mean, you mentioned your personal experience, and that's, I mean, I doubt there's a person in this room that hasn't had some direct or indirect relation with someone with Alzheimer's dementia, et cetera. Yeah, it's one of those things, yeah,

that a lot of people come into contact with. Correct me if I'm wrong. You mentioned a bunch of family owners, but your mom suffered from this in the last decade of her life. Right. And this kind of thing is, you know, it's horrible on the person,

it's also horrible on the family members, and it's a hard thing to figure out how to, how to react, how to nurture them, how to be there for them. Was it a tough? It's difficult to navigate in certain aspects, but I mean, fortunately, I had a career and I was, you know,

financially capable of having her taken care of in a way that was great. But the really wonderful thing was the place that she spent her last days was in the midst of her family. She was in a town where all of her cousins were, my grandfather's sister's kids were, and they were sort of her age and they'd known her for a very long time, so it was a very nurturing environment for her to be in. And I could go back and forth, you know, willingly because I could afford to do that. So I saw her a lot more than I probably normally, you know, would have or because she didn't like being in my house in California. You know, she would come to my house in California for a while.

It was okay for her to do that. We could actually put her on a plane and she'd get there. But, you know, I'd get up in the morning. I'd get up in the morning sometimes at six to go to a golf course. And when she was there, I would come downstairs and she'd be sitting in there. in the hallway. What are you doing up? I mean, some bags were packed, dressed.

I don't like this hotel. It's like, what? And then I had to wake my wife up because I was going to go play golf. So I had to wake my wife up and tell her, you know, mom's up, you can get her back to bed, or you can feed her or whatever. And it was, it was, it was, it was, it was difficult watching her do it. And then there were the lighter moments. I mean, people think, you know, when I talk about it was, it was, it was difficult watching her do it.

think, you know, when I talk about seeing her sister being together, when they were both in the throes of it, when they would come to my house for like Christmas or whatever, and my cousin would bring her mom, and they would be together. And they became like these two kids that were together when they were children.

You know, they would get their purses and put their coats on and go walk around my yard and whatever, and then they would look at the maids, or they would get up and we would feed them, and then I would go off somewhere, and then the housekeeper would come and they'd see

the housekeeper and they'd go in the kitchen and sit and the housekeeper would go, did you eat? They went, no. And the housekeeper would feed them and then my wife would get up later and they'd see her and they'd go in the kitchen and sit and she'd go, you guys hungry? Yeah. So they were eating like they were working

out, you know? And then when they see the housekeepers later that day, they would go, who was that lady? So they would hide their purses from them. And then we'd have to spend the next three hours trying to figure out where they hidden their purses from these two ladies that they didn't know you know but um they were they were they were they were a great um repository of joy and laughter yeah in there you know being together

in the midst of that you know thing until the light really went out and neither one of them knew any of us were was your mom able to enjoy some of the spoils and and and of your career prior to that did she get to see the um she was present and present when i got my I started on a Hollywood Walk of Fame in 2000, so she was here for that, in LA for that. And I don't know that she ever went to a premiere, but she used to come to New York and go to plays. So when my wife and I were doing theater, she saw a lot of plays. And she owned a lot of the movies, you know. That was those things.

In fact, the last time she actually called my name, I had gone to the home she was in to visit. She was in the community room, some people watching TV, and I sat down next to her, and I said, hey. And she went, hi, back to the TV. You know who I am? I said, hello. Okay, I know to leave you alone now, because she was stern.

And for some reason, I guess some movie I'd done was coming on. And I popped up on the screen. She went on, Sam? Wow. Hey, Mom. She went, hmm. And that was the last time she ever said my name, which was kind of, you know, it's kind of heartbreaking

when I think of it. But it was that moment, you know, and that was that. And yeah, she was that. She was that woman, though. She was great. You play, as I alluded to, you play older in this. You also play younger in this. Each has their own respective challenges.

Yeah, younger, definitely. Youngers are. Easy to just put on the old hair and the, old hair and came to the gate a little bit. Yeah, well, you know, put some Vaseline on the lens, you know, take the wrinkles off my face, you know. But Jake Garber, my makeup artist, and I've been talking about this for years,

and Camille Friend, who's the hairdresser, I've been talking about this for a long time. So when it was time for me to be that age or old, they had the skill to make that happen. But they also worked with me on Captain Marvel when they aged me down 30 years. So they knew what to do to make that process work and what company to use to make that de-aging process

look real on screen. Not like that other movie that people didn't look so young. You know, I'm not gonna say it either. I was about to, I'm not going to. No, no, no, no. Leave him alone. Great filmmaker. Even though he doesn't like superhero movies.

You guys can figure it out, you're smart. What does it like to look at yourself like in the mirror when you're like done up in like the 92-year-old makeup and this haggard kind of look? I mean, do you see relatives? Does it remind you of somebody else? Or is it's a lot of my grandfather and his brothers? You know, for a long time, I would look in the mirror and go like, I remember when my grandfather was 50. Well, he didn't look like this. And then I remember when I got 60.

I said, I remember my grandfather and his brothers were 60. They didn't look like this. But, I mean, time, resources, you know, things are different, diet, my exercise regimen, the people that take the makeup off me and put it on me and the skin regimens that have gone through, you know, have preserved me very well. So when I do things, I generally see the character. first after I'm reading it. While I'm reading, I'll start to see a character and say,

okay, okay, he's doing this, I want him to look like this, or I've already talked to Camille or Robert, my headdresser, about the kind of hair I want. Or I figured out what I want his face to be, or if he had scars, or there's something wrong with his nose or something, you know, teeth, anything. So I start to do things, and I visualize. it before it happened. So by the time we got to Ptolemy and I saw him for the first time when

he did him, I was like, ah, okay, yeah, this is right. When I was sitting there and they were making the pieces from my face. And we experimented with several different things that said, that's too big, that's too small. Okay, can I get a waddle down here? You know, you want it to be complete. So I was doing all those things. So by the time I saw him, I was complete. I was completely immersed and ready to go and do it. I couldn't wait for other people to see me and go, where's Sam?

The lifeblood of any actor is their memory, I mean, is to have that recall to be, and I know you pride yourself on being off book and not missing a line. Do you find yourself testing yourself? And you alluded to this earlier. Kind of like just like making sure you're still sharp and you still got it and you're not

going through sadly what some of your family members had to go through. How do you do that? Well, I'm asking. How do you do that? like I guess well I may be deteriorating to a point where I don't exactly know everybody's lines verbatim but that used to be a problem because actors would go why are you mouthing my lines because I don't trust you when they call for a line you respond yeah but I still pretty much know everybody's lines in a scene and Movies aren't that difficult, you know.

I mean, you go to work, what do you shoot? Three, four pages a day, maybe. If you're having a big day, you know, and two-thirds of those pages are stage direction. Yeah, look over here, walk over there, pick this up, put that down. And you have to learn like five sentences. And if you can't do that, then yeah, it's time to quit.

You're also, though, like, maybe the most quotable actor in the history of the medium. I do have t-shirt lines. Oh, yeah, many. Yeah, a couple. The Ezekiel speech, et cetera. Do you have that still in your brain? Do you have the Pulp Fiction?

Yeah, always. Just in case. Well, I mean, it's one of those things that people repeat to me so often. Or I have to hear it and tell them, no, that's wrong. So I kind of know it in that way, the rote of that. And then people are always asking me, what's your favorite line from Pulp Fiction? and what a da-da-da-da-da-da, you know. And surprisingly enough, my favorite line is not Ezekiel.

What is it? Do they speak English and what? What ain't no language I ever heard of? There ain't no country I ever heard of. They speak English in what? That's a good one. That's kind of the best line. It's pretty great.

Let's talk about New York City. You're back here in New York, and you spent a lot of your formative work years here in New York. You came here 76? Do I have that right? Halloween night in 1976. We drove into the city. We were going to stay with some friends of ours that lived on Barrow Street.

So we drove into that Halloween parade not knowing that it was a Halloween parade. Welcome to the city. Oh, hey, what's happening? Yeah. Yeah, we were on Christopher Street going, what's going on? They're drunk none with a red beard. Oh, okay.

Did you find a community of actors immediately? Did you find work? What were those early years like? The first play we both did, my wife and I, was a play we did at Henry Street, Predito. I think I was in one scene in the beginning, and I sat downstairs until the end of the play so I could do a curtain call.

And my wife had a bigger role in it. So that was the first play we did. And then she started working down at the public. And she ended up being in the first touring company of a color girl. So she was the lady in red. So she left town. And I was kind of beating the pavement and doing stuff.

And I actually had a real job. I was a security guard at the construction site of Manhattan Plaza. So I used to have to walk around. that plaza and turn a key in different places to make sure that I had been in places on the construction site but the first thing they built was the pool so the construction workers would use the pool before they left home and at three in the morning I would like take out my security guy uniform as swimming the pool do laps you know for like a half hour and then get out and

walk around the plaza and dry off and put my uniform back on and turn the key and then I was the first guy on the desk at the 9th Avenue building and then at the 10th Avenue building for a while, overnight before I started to act more. And, you know, when I, I learned to do all this stuff when I was in college. So I would build sets and hang lights and do stuff like that so that when I had an audition,

people would say good luck, not, oh, who's gonna wait my tables? So I never did, you know, wait tables. That's one of the actor things I never did. Correct me if I'm wrong. You worked with, like, some of the actors you were working with in plays back then. I asked me a specific question about the cadre of actors.

Did I start talking about me? No, I love the pool. Like, this is about me. My bad. Yes, when I started working, when I finally got to the public theater, that was where I met Morgan Freeman, Robert Christian, like Reynos, friend of mine, Ellis Williams. I remember when Denzel showed up.

He was an understudy, he was an understudy in this production I was doing of The Mighty Gents that we, Joe Papp had this company of actors and we would do a play and we would go to different parks in the city and do that play. And Denzel was the understudy for one of the guys in the show. In fact, that guy got fired opening night and Denzel had to go on. on. He was great. I'm sure he was. He killed it. He showed me that review like a year ago. He's like, look what I found, Jackson? I was like, oh, a review of you killing it. Okay. But, yeah, Denzel, a lot of us. Charles Dutton was there, I believe, Charles Dutton. Was he? No, Charles Dutton was in jail. Okay, okay. Yeah, but eventually you showed up later at Yale. Oh, that's later. Okay. Yeah, he was, he was incarcerated. But he wasn't part of that, that, that, that, that

group of people that I met when I was doing theater here at the Shakespeare Festival or at Negro Ensemble Company. Charles, Charles Brown, and all those people, Adolf Caesar, a lot of different people that I ended up doing a Soldiers Play with. Right. I was going to mention that. I mean, a Soldier's Play, and then Soldier's Play is adapted into a film, and... So, yeah, Soldier Story. Right. You're not in the film. Source by. Oh, we've taken a turn. It all worked out in the end, Sam. It's okay. But I guess it alludes to a larger point Everything happens when it's supposed to

Yes Which is my point Like Not true It did feel like your turn came later than a lot of your contemporaries Was that Is that, I mean I think that's accurate

Yeah I always figured I was in the right place Because I mean well when we were doing We were doing Mother Courage at the public theater And then Morgan flipped out and did Street Smart He was gone And then you know Wesley was gone

and Denzel was gone to start St. Elsewhere, and then his movie career started. Alfred Woodard was part of that group. She, you know, flew out, Fishburn, boom, everybody. So people were going. So I figured I was in the right place that just wasn't my turn.

Right. You know, because I was going, I'm as good as they are, so got to happen at some point. Somebody's got to be smart enough to see how I got it. But are you still feeling that in your like late 30s, like 40s? Well, I didn't realize until,

know, take some minute to realize that maybe if your eyes weren't red and you didn't smell like beer when you went to the audition, you might have got that job, you know, or maybe if you didn't like, you know, wake up, roll over a smuggle joint before you got out of bed and decide you were going to go and do all the stuff you need to do and hit the bricks and being on, you know, do what you do. Okay, but, you know, I was that actor that I was going to do what I was going to do and I was always doing a showcase and I was always auditioning and I was always rehearsing for something. So I was working and doing things.

I was just kind of, you know, in my own space and in my own head and in my own way doing them. But something about me allowed the lessons and the experiences I was having to stick and be positive influences. The only thing that wasn't a positive influence for me was my ability to, you know, light a crack pipe and a windstorm.

But everything else was working for me. me. Which leads us, appropriately, the jungle fever. So, yeah. So jungle fever, yeah, come on. The first thing, the first thing I ever did without a substance in my body. So this is fascinating. Okay, so, and we're going to look at a clip of it if that's okay. So the jungle fever, Spike Lee, who you'd worked with by then, comes to you. Did he know you were struggling that you were in rehab when he called? Like, did he think Gator was? Nobody, nobody knew I was. Nobody knew I was. was struggling. I mean, I was going to where I had a job?

Are you talking about? I was Charles Dutton's understudy on Broadway. Because I had been the original boy, Willie, and the piano lesson at Yale while he was doing Crocodile Dundee. But I thought that, you know, I'm killing this role so much. They got to call him and tell him, dude, we don't need you. And that didn't happen. And that ended up being, you know, his understudy on Broadway. So I'm, you know, signing in every night and sitting on the fire skate behind the theater.

listening to him do the role that I had done. And we did it very differently. So nationally, I was single, why does he messing us up like that? And then, you know, the play gets a pure surprise. He wins a Tony. And I'm like, ah, I made agony back. So I would like literally, I would literally go to the theater,

sign in. And while they were getting ready to go up between curtain, I would like get on the atrain right off. ride up town, vascular cocaine, stopping my house, cook it, come back to the theater and go sit on the fire escape and watch Jessica Lang smoke cigarettes behind the theater while she was doing cat. And I was smoking my crack pipe on the fire escape, listening to them do the play and losing my mind. And, you know, eventually I went to a bachelor party. Ruben Santiago Hudson was having a bachelor party in the middle of the day for some reason. At the shark bar.

Don't blame Ruben. I'm not. I'm not. At the shark bar. And, you know, I drank a bunch of tequila. I was drunk. It was time for it to be over. And I was like, well, I was on my way home.

I got in the cab. I need to level off. So I need to stop by the coat man's house and get them staying together because I got to go to the show tonight. And I went there, went home, cooked the cocaine. Boom. I woke up. My wife and daughter was standing over me in the kitchen. I was laying on the floor in the kitchen.

And when I was, of my best friends from high school and college was a drug counselor at Knoxville she called him and the very next day I was on my way upstate to rehab so that's how that all happened and it's a insane story unbelievable um and it leads into so yes you you so spike called me while I was in rehab yes let's look at the clip let's look this is this is okay for those that haven't seen this film in a while um this is a very you know intense scene this is the last scene of gator just Oh, really? Fair warning.

Oh, this is the Reverend Doctor? The great Ruby D and Ozzie Davis. Okay. Let's take a look at this amazing work. What is all this shit? Where's the money? Why are you jumping like this? Why don't you just give me the money?

I told you, honey, you won't find no money in that pocketbook. I haven't got any money. Not the kind of money you're looking for. $100? Is that all the money you got that? Oh my God. Oh, my God. Put in all these shit.

Don't say shit! But I love a sweet chaser! Please go! Boy, didn't I tell you never set put in my house again? Where's the money? Why are you hiding? Have you lost a natural mind? As well as your soul, didn't I tell you never to dark in my door again? Gators, Gators, leave it.

I ain't going nowhere! All right. All right. I'll put you out. See, Mama, if you gave me the money, I'd be gone before he came back. Now give me some money! If I had any money, I'd give it to you. You got money. This house, Mama give it to me.

You get it how you want it. Take it, honey. You got more money to $2.00. Look it. You see this? You can sell it. I don't want that shit. I want some money.

My own flesh and blood, my first born son, and I love you. With your evil and you're better off dead. All right, all right. Leave. Leave. Take it. Take it. Take it.

Set. The devil is always busy. Mama, check out this new step. I made this one up just for you. I'll pay a lot of money for these, honey. Take him, take it. Sell it. Sell it.

Take it. For God's sake, please. Go. I'll pray for you myself. Father, I stretch my hands to thee. Oh! Oh, come up! Oh, my!

Oh! No! No! No! No! I'm not, no! No! My dad!

My son! My son! Mom is here! Mom is he! The ocean my door Mom is he... Mom is it! Mom is he!

Mom is it! Your! Oh! Oh! Oh! He... Oh! Oh!

Yeah, you do. What, I mean, I would think a lot of memories flood back going toe to toe with no less than... A lot of memories watching that? Yeah, first one was that Squib slid from here down to my navel. And when it went off, it felt like he shot me. It hurt really bad. hurt really badly. And for me, that particular

moment was like the depth of the actor that I had been and the birth of the actor that you have now. Because like I said, that was the first job I'd ever done without a substance in me. So I did all the research before I got there, so I kind of knew what I wanted to do. I mean, it was

written very differently. but I told Spike that were things I wanted to do that involved my interaction with family members and other people and how addicts use people and Gator literally became the symbol of everybody had a Gator in their family somewhere somebody had been in their house and stole something or became got some money under false pretences or lost

in mind because you wouldn't give them some money and act it up because they were addicts. Everybody had a crackhead in their family somewhere and people related to it and it became a very popular theme inside that movie

which was another one of those interesting things that my wife was going through with them because when we went to the premiere they were interviewing people in the movie and they were talking to John Tituro and Annabella and Wesley and all these other people.

My wife was like, are they going to interview you? And they told, well, we're on the interview in the stars. Right, you didn't get the can invite. And I didn't go to the can. I saw the spike at a knit game and they were going to the next day. It's like, well, we're going to can. I was like, when? And he's like, well, no, no, it's just, you know,

me and the stars, blah, blah, blah. And I was like, oh, okay. And that was that. And then a couple days later, I called my agent, and I used to call her and I would say, Hollywood called, and she would go, no. And I said, Hollywood College. As a matter of fact, you won some award

at the Cannes Film Festival for a supporting actor. I was like, they don't give supporting actor awards that can. They're like, well, they created one for you. Like, what? And they've never given it to anybody else. So I have the only one of those. Thanks to Whoopi Goldberg,

who was on the jury. Oh, right? And, you know, campaign for that to happen, and that happened. And I ended up leaving the realm of Spike because he was getting ready to do Malcolm X and I had been reading with everybody for Malcolm X and I had a part but I got a better part

in another movie for more money called White Sands and I like took it. And he and I had a small falling out about that. And you know the rest is kind of history because I went from White Sands to Patriot Games to, I got a couple of movie deal at Morgan Creek. It's funny how Hollywood corrupts you

really quickly, you know, because, I mean, I hadn't made the amount of money I made with that movie. Not a big cigar. I made $60,000 for that movie, right? And then I got to Hollywood, and the next movie was going to be like double that, and then it was blah, blah, blah. And I started reading the scripts, and I'm like,

I don't work that long for that money. You get corrupting so fast. It's like, two movies in. I was like, oh. they're devaluing me I said dude you devaluing you you didn't make 60 grand in like five years let alone one

you know let alone eight weeks so come on so yes I mean the next big jump which is you know the most one of the most iconic roles for any actor is of course in Pulp Fiction as Jules and and that there's a lot of war about that part that you know you had talked to me about

Reservoir Dogs Quentin of course that he wrote it for you but that also you almost ended up losing it. I've heard like Paul Calderon. I've heard Lawrence Fishburn. Like what happened? Did you almost lose the role somehow that you were, that was read, that was written for? No, they were being stupid.

They had nothing to do with me. I didn't lose it. When people were coming in to audition now, from what I heard, Quentin actually wrote it first for fish. And I don't know what happened between he and fish or whatever, but didn't happen. But when I saw him at Sunday. dance, I had auditioned for Reservoir Dog. And when I went to audition, I was expecting the audition with Tim Roth and Harvey Kitell. Tim, I knew because I had done a film called Jumping at the Boneyard here with him,

which was his first American movie. So I was looking forward to auditioning with him. And I got there, and there were these other two dudes there that I had to read with because Tim and Harvey wasn't there. And they sucked. I mean, they were like awful. I left an audition like, what the fuck? And then I find out later is Quentin and Lawrence Bender, the producer.

That was that dude. And then I saw him at Sundance at the first screening. And I went up to him and tell him how much I liked the movie. And it was like, that movie was awesome. How did you like to get out who got your part? I was like, what? You remember who I am? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

I'm writing something for you right now. I was like, get out of here. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, seriously. And I went to all right. And I was doing a TV movie in West Virginia about the first black cadet to graduate from West Point. And this script showed up in a brown envelope with a little gangster on the back of it. It says, if you show this to anybody, we'll kill you. And I'll open it, it's Pulp Fixin, and I said, the role for you is Jules.

I started reading it. Okay, all right, this is happening. I read it like that. And when I finished, I was just, ooh, no way in hell the script was that good. Read it again. I read it straight through again.

Okay, if they make this movie the way it is on the page, I got friends that are going to love it. I don't know everybody will, but my friends are going to love this movie, and I'm going to have a great time doing it. And then, you know, it all played out. But then as they started to audition people for the other roles,

people came in and I guess this one actor came in they called me in once to do a reading of something because they just wanted to hear how it sounded and I went in and I did it and then they started auditioning people with the other stuff I'm I was I was here doing fresh boys Yakin's movie and I heard okay somebody came in and blew us away reading jewels and I'm like well why the hell were they reading Jules if I already got the job And so, well, he asked. I was like, what?

You asked the game the whole script. You think you get people's sides, you know? And next thing I know, they're saying, well, we don't know, man. We got to, you know, so I'm in an acting contest now. So I'm shooting. I got to get on the plane after I finished shooting Saturday, take the red eye to L.A., and I'm on the plane frantically, you know, writing in the margins of the script, breaking down the speeches, because I hadn't done that.

because it wasn't time me to do that yet. So I'm doing it on the plane. Entirely pissed because I don't know why this is happening. And then I get there and they're all gone to lunch. Nobody's there. I'm sitting in the room waiting. And they all come back and say, hey Sam, hey Sam, hey Sam. And one guy that I'd never met before, they were getting ready to introduce them to me.

He said, God, don't need an introduction. Pleasure to meet you, Mr. Fishburn. And I was like, okay, all right. I got him fired from another movie, but that's another story. That's another story. But I go in the room, and I start the audition, they hired a kid to read, and, you know, I'm like, I'm cooking, and dude is getting lost in the script because he's like watching me.

I'm like, you're not in the thing. You're not in the thing. So we get through the whole audition, boom, boom, boom. We do every scene, Jewel's end. We do the diner scene in Wham. I slammed the strip shut, threw it on the desk, left, got back on a plane, came back to New York. So Bender is also the producer on Fresh.

So he comes back, and immediately I'm like, what's going on with you guys? You know, you tell me, I got a role, and then you tell me I have to get in the contest with somebody, you either thought I was capable of doing it or not, and they said, no, it wasn't that, it was just, the guy was just so good, but I tell you what, we had no idea how this movie was supposed to end until you did the last scene in the diner, you know, because they didn't know that the speech could be done like two different ways.

What's wrong with you? That's why you were so bad in my Reservoir Dog's audition, because you don't know how to act. But, you know, it happened, it was fine, it worked out. And finally enough, when Pope was getting ready to be released, when it was shown at Kahn, I was shooting Dihad with Bruce. So Bruce got a plane. I never been on a private plane. So, come on, we're going to Kahn.

Cool. Jump on the plane with him, we go to Kahn, we're sitting there, we're watching it, and we're like, wow, this movie's great. And then we realized that majority. the people in here don't even speak English. And they're getting it, you know. And Bruce is like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, it's good. And this movie's going to do great things for you, but that hurt going to change your life.

It's like, what? It's like, really? He's like, mark my words. And sure enough, I got nominated for the Academy Award. I don't win it. Martin Landau. Sam? Sam.

Anyhow. Yeah, I don't get it. And, you know, yeah, my life changed slightly after that. But when Die Hard came out the next year, it was the highest grossing movie worldwide, and I took a, like, a huge world tour with that movie. Because Pop wasn't being shown everywhere. People had, like, restrictions on it. They couldn't even show them in London.

I didn't even realize that. But I was going all over the world, and all of a sudden, I was this worldwide star because of diehard. You know, Zeus. Zeus became a bigger deal than Jewel's deal. I grew up like two blocks from that 72nd Street train station. I remember when you guys were shooting it. It was a big moment.

Do you? I do. Yeah, that was a big deal. I remember being in the middle of the 72nd Street going, wow, we're actually like, wow, doing this. And I was sitting, I just sat down on the ground at one point while they were sitting up some shot. And people were passing by dropping money on me. I was like, okay I'm the homeless dude

Yeah, I'm like, all right Side gig You have too many Damn amazing movies We're going to be here all night But we're not, we can't So just to jump around I have to play my nerd card

And talk Star Wars for a second with you I mean, come on Only Jedi to my mind That has a purple lightsaber Yes Contractual? Is that just like, how did that happen? I asked George.

You know, in episode two, there's that huge scene in like a forum. Stadium. There's all these Jedi out there. When I was reading it, I was like, how am I going to find myself in this? So I said, different color lights. I said, George, can I get a purple lightsaber? The green and blue. It's like, what?

Seriously? That's it? No conversation. No conversation. And then we finished shooting reshoots. I had to fly back to London and said, I want to show you something. It's like, what? And he shows me a purple lightsaber.

He said, it's already causing a shitstorm online, so I don't know if I'm going to keep it. Really? Come on. And how do people online know anyway? And sure enough, when the movie opened, he was like, okay. You get to keep the purple lightsaber. Because in episode one, I never even got to pull it. Good point. You know, it was like, I was sitting there, like, watching the second.

Hey, damn, my lightsaber. Can I use it? The way you were eyeing that kid, though, it felt like you were about to pull out the lightsaber at any second. I would have heard him pretty bad. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But, yeah, but. They brought everybody back, Sam.

What's going on? The Obi-1 trailer just dropped the other day. Is Mace Windu, he's alive with one hand somewhere. Somewhere. Yeah, somewhere. Yeah, somewhere. Well, that's the same way I think about. about dude from, you know, Jurassic Park.

He's somewhere riding around on Velociraptors with one arm. You know, he's just on the island, just riding raptors, you know. Should I hold out hope at this point for Mays? That was a huge history of people with one hand returning in Star Wars. I asked, I asked, the only person I've ever said that to about coming back was Bryce Delis Howard, because I just did a movie with her, and she directs episodes. So the Mandalorian stuff. So you think you might be able to hook a brother up?

I mean, you like me, right? It's just like, I love you, you're amazing. Put me back in this. Put me back in the game, I'm ready. Put me in coach, I'm ready. I'll learn the lightsaber left-handed. Come on. Hook me up.

All right, I'm holding out hope then. You've been reprising your role for 14 years and counting as Nick Fury. I mean, I believe so. Iron Man 2008. I mean, you couldn't have imagined it would turn into what it's turned into, obviously. But, you know, it's kind of strange when somebody tells you they don't want to give you a nine picture deal.

Right. There you go. How long are I still alive to make nine pictures? Because then, you know, it used to take a while to make a movie. Yeah. It still kind of does, but, you know, people make two and three of them at a time. So in the Marvel universe, it's crazy.

Yeah, because when I was in London just now, I was like, Ant Man and, And Captain Marvel 2 was happening, and we were getting ready to do Secret Invasion. So it's like three Marvel movies on one lot, you know. Right. And I was kind of running around from place to place, you know. I love the cast you guys have assembled here. I mean, you got Olivia Coleman in there, you got Amelia Clark.

How amazing is that? I mean, Olivia Coleman in a Marvel show? Come on. Martin Freeman? Martin Freeman's in? I love Martin Freeman. Come on. Ben Mendelsso, obviously. When I walked in the room and Olivia Coleman was standing in.

there I was just like, oh, man, this is going to be so amazing. And she looked at me and we were like, ah, and you know, we just started laughing. And when we started to work, it was so glorious and such a ball and not this, you know, serious, crazy deepness, you know, we were just kind of having a good time. She is so amazing and so effective in a scene. You know, it's those moments that when you're in the middle of doing it and you feel it and you watch it happen, that when they finally say cut, all you can do is look at the other person and go, oh, my God, that was amazing. That was so great. She's like, you're better than that thought.

Yeah, okay. But she was great. Amelia, amazing. It's like, come on, man. You walk on a set and you go, okay, that's the Queen of Dragons. She's so tiny. She's like a fairy. It's like, I'm going to hold her like that.

But, yeah, and Ben Mendelsohn, Ben's awesome. He's one of those actors, that. So they're just awesome stuff. Don, Don Chito, you know, I got Don, you know, that's like my golf buddy. So I didn't realize until we did this thing. I said, we didn't have worked together. We just kind of know each other.

We kick it and hang out and laugh and do stuff. And it feels like we acted together, We act out stuff on the golf course sometimes just, you know, because we're having fun doing stuff. But we never really worked together. So we finally get to see the two of you. Nice. Awesome. Would you ever, ever do a D.C. film?

Would you ever play for the other team? Are you too loyal to Marvel to ever consider if they call? Well, I mean, you know, I mean, we're all actors and mercenaries. This is what I'm saying. I can't know what we do. We act for who we act for, you know, but I don't know that I'm going to read a DC script that's going to make me go, yeah, this is dope

because you expect things to happen because, I mean, I'm a comic book fan, so I've been reading comic books forever. And truth be told, I don't even read Marvel comic books. You know, I kind of look at them, and when I discovered myself as Nick Fury, I just happened to see myself, and what am I doing on this cover?

And that was it, but you know, I put the book back. But I've read D.C. comics my whole life, you know, I mean, we all came through Superman, Batman, you know, Silver Surfer, and Aquaman,

I was a swimmer. So, you know, so that was all, I was all about D.C. But I don't know what the thing is about them cinematically. they're a little all over the place. Some work better than others. It's just Marvel has that real formula down. Sometimes. Most of the time. Yeah, most of the time. We go most of the time. Congratulations are in order. I mentioned this earlier. This man is getting an Oscar very soon.

Long every day. And I know you've been very honest and open about this in the past and say like, look, this is the $27 billion man. That's how much his movies have grossed over the years, more than any other actor. Yeah, somebody's money. But my point is, you make movies for audiences. I do. And nobody does it better. That being said, what does this feel like to know you're getting this kind of accomplishment

for a lifetime of work from the Academy? Well, having watched as many movies as I've watched and been in as many movies as I've been in, And there's a thing, you know, as long as I resisted it and continued to say, oh, you know, I'm an actor, I did a lot of theater in New York, blah, blah, blah, blah. I'm a movie star, okay? I have to admit it sometimes, okay, I'm a movie star. People pay money to come see me in movies. And I think that over the course of this career, I represented Hollywood in a way that allows them to say, this guy, epitomizes what a worker bee in this business is and he may not have been

voted by his peers or the movies he'd been in haven't been nominated or the roles he hadn't been robbed a few times but hey he represents us and the best way we can be represented you know he's a shunning example of what if I I wanted my kid to be a movie star. I hope he would be that guy. You know, and I put a lot of asses in seats. Yeah. So it's okay.

I'm honored to get it. And at this point in my career, it's, you know, it's a wonderful thing. I'm okay. You've hosted a lot of ceremonies, different espies, et cetera, over the years. Have you ever considered, if they came calling, would you host the officers? That is a thankless job. I know it is. Yeah, the only person that gets positive feedback from doing that is Billy Crystal.

Yeah. And maybe Bob Hope back in the day. Right. You know, but no, that's a thankless job. Okay, so that's a pass on that one. Okay. Yeah. All right, I got some audience questions for you.

Let's see. Wrong answers only. What is the dumbest thing you wanted to be in the briefcase in Pulp Fiction? The dumbest thing I wanted to be in the briefcase? Well, give me your theory. Do you have your own theory on what's in the briefcase? Nah, I know what's in it. Four light, six batteries.

It's heavy as hell. You gave us your favorite line from Pulp Fiction. Is that your favorite line from any of your films? What's your favorite line from your films? Ooh. I don't know, it's probably something from Long Kiss Good Night because that's kind of like my favorite movie. I always bring this up with you.

I love that movie. Rennie Harlan, you and Gina Davis. I mean, as much as people vilify Rennie for that pirate movie, and maybe that's the lone mountain climbing movie. His diehard movie was okay. Long Kiss Goodnight was the first kick-ass woman movie. I mean, Gina rocked the house in that movie. And some of the stuff that they edited out of it would be in a movie today.

You know, she was Atomic Blind before they needed. to what Atomic Blonde even was. It was an amazing, great time. Well, that was the first, like, super expensive script. When people started, you know, back in the days when Hollywood just threw money and everything. Joe Esther House would sell us here for $6 million or something. $6 million.

$6 million. Why won't you guys let me read for your movie? And he's like, you want to be in my movie? It's like, yeah. It's like, it's yours. And that was it. That was it. It was like, yes.

You know, and such a great time. Great movie. My favorite land would probably be one of those magazines. Like, you go in a bar and sailors come running out of the room, you know, whatever. You haven't checked it out. Check it out. Yeah. Yeah, my favorite.

Yeah, there's a favorite line. If you were speaking to another actor, how would you describe your process? in preparing for this role? This one? Tell me, yeah. Geez. My process for preparing for it was living with my mom, my grandfather, and, you know, all my family members.

I wouldn't wish that on anybody. I'm sure there's a way to get into it that's not that personal. Yeah. But, you know, it's difficult. Because I'm not a method actor in that way. I mean, I know how to how to break a character down, to sit down, and study the words, the relationships, and make things happen.

My wife always said that I have this facility for saying things the right way, putting the right expression on my face, and having, you know, the right vocal inflection that makes it work. And it wasn't until I got sober that I could feel it and convey that feeling to an audience. So I don't know. it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's really hard to to help people feel right yeah uh this is from junie are there any are there any films you wished you had the opportunity to be in unforgiving yeah I would love to have been in that did you talk to Clint did you have

it's a perfect movie yeah that would have been awesome but hatefully it's not bad that's a good one too is it sure you turn down Morpheus in Matrix if you go online you can You can see that. Really? Yeah. You know, I had meetings with those guys before the studio decided they were going to make it. Because I was shooting time to kill, so I would catch rides back from Mississippi to L.A. with all those studio execs, right?

And they were like fussing with each other about making this movie. And I was like, are you guys out of your minds? You gotta make this movie. Oh, it'll cost so much and who knows what I'm like, dude, you have no idea what you have in your hands and if you let this go in the turnaround somebody else is going to you know make it so make it but i had meetings with the then wakowsky brothers right um several but i didn't turn it down they just never offered it to me he just kept meeting with me for some reason i don't know wanted the talk yeah um Stewart wants to know does your wax figure at

madam two so's freak you out which one at which madam two so's Stewart has, oh, wow, that's a mic drop. Well, I'm not sure because I don't know how they do it now, but when they made mine, they literally, like, came to my hotel for like two weeks and they were measured the circumference of my head and how far apart my eyes were, and they had a briefcase full of eyes, and they even went into my closet to look at my clothes. You know, so mine looked very well. the first one that they made.

In fact, I used to stand next to it sometimes on 42nd Street when I was just hanging out. I would just stand there when they put it on the street, because it's always on the street for some reason. And I would just stand over there like I was reading the book and standing around and watch people take pictures with it.

Nobody even noticed I was standing next. That's amazing. Someone here wants to know what your favorite movie is, but I'm going to twist it because it is... My favorite movie that I'm in. I'm my favorite. movie period well I'm gonna turn into this question which I ask all my guests and you provided your favorite comfort movie to me in advance and I love this is so Sam Jackson I love that you chose this movie tell us what you think of when you

think of your comfort movie what did you select which one did they tell you I tell you the raid oh yeah that's that's a go-to why do I like the raid so much because it's awesome how is it comforting though it's an intense for those that haven't seen the raid this is like an Indonesian full-on Well, a SWAT team goes into a building full of criminals and the criminals lock the SWAT team in the building. How can that not be happening? That's amazing. It is like awesome.

There's stuff done in that movie that I've never seen before and I watch Asian violence a lot. Right. Since I was a young actor when I first discovered the Shaw brothers, you know, kung fu movies. and then they started to evolve and evolve and then I discovered John Wu and, you know, Chow Yun-Thap. So when people start talking about the King of Cool, I used to laugh and said, no, that did was the King of Cool. Right. But I love those movies, and I just met Gary. Gareth Evans, the director.

Oh, man, he looks like you, like a schoolteacher. It was like, dude, how do you make these movies? You know, because Gangs of London is amazing, too. Oh, I've heard that. Yeah, that's a series. I've heard that. What do you mean? Well, no, it's for AMC. I haven't seen it yet. Yeah, yeah. There's too much out there, Sam.

I was busy watching Tall Me Gray. There's too much crap out there. That's a bunch of good stuff that people just miss because, oh, that's violent. I'm saying, eh, yeah, yeah. But, you know, that's some kick-ass girls in his movies, too. Speaking of the good stuff, what are you voting for at the Oscars this year? What's your favorite movie of the year? Favorite performance?

My favorite performance was Frankie Faison. And the killing of Kenneth Chamberlain is that the name of? Okay. Yeah. Frankie was, you know, I mean, Frankie's been one of my favorite actors for a very long time. And we did Ragtime together in 1980. Got it. But that movie is riveting from beginning to end.

And it's a guy in a room talking to some cops through a door. But Frankie, like, kills it. That's the kind of thing you want to watch. thing you want to watch actors do. You know, when people start talking about performances, that's a performance. Yeah. Do you remember the last audition of your career? Like, and do you know it was the last audition at the time? No. It wasn't a meaningful moment. I don't know to all that. You don't remember it? I don't remember what my last audition was. Um, that wasn't like a big, I mean, I would imagine that's a turning point. I know what my last audition was supposed to be.

Okay. Which was one of those things that really, you know, pissed me off at the time. Like I said, I had just done jungle fever, and Spike was getting ready to do Malcolm X, and I was reading with all these different people. I was like the designated reader for all these people. And then somebody turned around and said to me, okay, it's, it's your day to read for. And I was like, excuse me? I mean, I've been reading with all these people. I think I've auditioned already. And if you're not just going to give me the job, then kiss my ass so that might have been the last last audition or supposed that audition but no I don't remember it I've actually gone into rooms and I've had to convince people you know at times not in a long time but I think one of the last things I had to convince somebody of was when they were casting this movie I did called 187 I had to go in and

convince them that I was the person to be that teacher. You know, because it was some more poignant story to have a person of color fighting with, you know, these kids in this school in New York and in the school in California. It's easy for them to be antagonized by a white teacher, but you know, a guy who's trying to relate to him, help him whatever, I figured it was a better story.

You know, turned out to be right. Yeah. And great relationships in there. I mean, Clifton, another great performance this year, the jockey. I saw that, Clifton Collins, right? Clifton rock. Yeah, yeah, it's great. I mean, talking about relationships.

I mean, I think of, you know, folks like Spike you've mentioned and Quentin. Is there like, I mean, is there any touchiness when they don't call for a particular movie? You mentioned a kung fu movies. Like, Kill Bill, when you're watching that, you're like, why am I not on screening that? I know you have, I think a... No, I read Kill Bill. Yeah? I mean, when he wrote it, I read it.

He sent it to me, I read it, and I was like, well, I guess I could be. be this guy, but the only person I could really see myself being is Rufus, the organ plate. Right. And he was like, oh, okay, it's yours. And that's, you know, it happened like that. Now, right. I didn't hear from for the Hollywood movie, but

I mean, that's what that was. I don't know what was going on. You could have narrated it. Huh? You could have narrated it? Like I did in glories? Yeah. Yeah. I guess I could. I'm okay with it. You're okay. You're doing all right. Yeah. What's the worst stage direction to read in a script.

What do you hate to see in a script? Give it advice to aspiring screenwriters out there. What should you never put in your script? Never put in your script. I don't know. Some actors need that stuff. I don't particularly need it. Like I said, I'm cinematically immersed in stuff.

And when I'm reading a script, I'm not only reading it as the character I'm reading it as an audience member so if there's something stupid in there that you're asking that actor to do I will circle it so when I see the director or whoever's in charge and go take this out this thing shouldn't be there or this whole conversation should be gone I don't know people crawl up their own ass sometimes and you kind of have to pull them back out and that Dude, that's way too much. I know you want to be the smartest kid in the room, but, you know, you're, you may be the smartest kid in the room, but you're the worst screenwriter.

All right, let's end full circle on this wonderful show. Do you take a different kind of pride in this one? This is obviously your baby to a degree. You've been, you know, it's different in that, you know, I've been saying this now. my new catchphrase, I'm having an opportunity to act in this one and not just react to what other people are doing. So it gives me an opportunity to kind of, you know, stretch a muscle that I haven't stretched in a while and to interact with some actors that are emerging. Yeah. Some actors that were just very good already, you know, like Omar, Benson Miller,

who plays Reggie. Breaks your heart of this. amazing acting. I mean, he came in and, you know, I immediately felt like he was reggie. You know, he'd been that dude. And, you know, Damon Guptain and to see Dominique grow as many things as that scenery in already, you know, from Judas to, you know, show me a hero to the deuce, have her, you know, come in and be this wonderful, you know, first bird of spring for me is a really great thing. I'm enjoying that, you know, just being able to say, okay, I've acted for a while. Now I can go back and react some more.

There you go. There you go. Well, as I said, I can't think of an actor that's brought me more joy on the screen. I'm sure I speak for a lot of people here. Your work is always exceptional man. We thank you for your time today. Give it up, guys. Thank you all.

Samuel L. Jackson. You make me blush. Thank you so much. And so ends another edition of happy, sad, confused. Remember to review, rate, and subscribe to this show on iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm a big podcast person. I'm Daisy Ridley, and I definitely wasn't pleasure to do this by Josh.

The Old West is an iconic period of American history. and full of legendary figures whose names still resonate today. Like Jesse James, Billy the Kid, and Butch and Sundance, Sitting Bull, Crazy Horse, and Geronimo, Wyatt Earp, Batmasterson, and Bass Reeves, Buffalo Bill Cody, Wild Bill Hickok, the Texas Rangers, and many more. Hear all their stories on the Legends of the Old West podcast.

We'll take you to Tombstone, Deadwood, and Dodge City, to the plains, mountains, and deserts for battles between the U.S. and Native American warriors to dark corners for the disaster of the Donner Party and shining summits for achievements like the Transcontinental Railroad. We'll go back to the earliest days of explorers and mountain men and head up through notorious Pinkerton agents and gunmen like Tom Horn. Every episode features narrative writing and cinematic music, and there are hundreds of episodes available to binge. I'm Chris Wimmer. Find Legends of the Old West wherever you're listening now.