Happy Sad Confused - Scott Glenn

Episode Date: December 2, 2020

Some people have stories and then there's Scott Glenn. He's got all the stories. It's no surprise given the life he's led. In his 80+ years he's been a Marine, a journalist, an actor taken in by Burt Lancaster, and a screen presence notable for versatility and dependability. On this episode, Scott joins Josh to share just a small selection of his stories, from "Apocalypse Now" to "Silence of the Lambs", all the way up to his latest role in "Greenland." Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Get after him or have you shot You mean blow up the building From this moment on None of you are safe New episodes every Wednesday Wherever you get your podcasts Prepare your ears, humans. Happy, sad, confused begins now.

Today on Happy, Sad, Confused, Scott Glenn, an actor and still a badass in his 80s, on his new film, Greenland, and a lifetime of adventure. Hey, guys, I'm Josh Horowitz. Welcome to another edition of Happy, Sad, Confused. we've got a guy on the show today that's lived a life and he's got the stories to prove it mr scott glen was kind enough to join me for this edition of happy said confused first time guest on the podcast um and yeah i could have spent hours upon hours talking to him this is just a slice of his remarkable life you know scott glen if you're a cinephile like i am you grew up with

Scott Glenn, he was a staple of movies in the 80s and 90s, and he continues to work to this day in fantastic projects. In recent years, he was a standout performer in Daredevil and the leftovers back in the day. He kind of came to prominence in urban cowboy. And of course, my association with him is that run in the late 80s, early 90s, Silence of the Lambs, and Backdraft, Hunt for Red October. These were big screenings. and entertainments that really affected me as a young man and to get a chance to chat with him about some of these iconic films and performances. I mean, the guy was in apocalypse now even. He's got a hell of a story about that in this podcast. My sense is he's got 10 different stories for

each of these amazing films. So this, as I said, is just a slice of his life. But just a good guy. The more I read about Scott going into this conversation, the more I learned about him, the more impressed I was with him. He's, you know, he's been married for 50 plus years. He lives this, you know, different kind of lifestyle in Idaho. He's like an outdoors guy. He's a hugely physical guy. He's, he could probably kick my ass, even though he's got 40, you know, years on me. He's, he's an impressive, impressive guy. And I really enjoyed chatting with him. And he couldn't have been nicer. So I think you guys are going to enjoy this chat with Scott Glenn. His new movie, is called Greenland. It's a small part, but it's a pivotal part in this film,

a headline by Gerard Butler and Marina Baccarin. Kind of a disaster movie, but I'll be honest, it wasn't exactly what I was expecting. You think Gerard Butler, you know, a disaster movie, and that's one kind of thing, but this really impressed me. This is a solid, this is a solid film. This comes out on demand on December 18th. It's from Rick Waugh, and it's not like the big macro look at a disaster. It's really a human story about a family and how they deal with an impending global disaster. And certainly that has unfortunate resonance to the stuff we've been dealing with this last year. And I thought it was really well done. Honestly, did. So I would recommend that one, checking that one out on December 18th when it's on demand. The movie is called

Greenland. Other things to mention, stir crazy. Of course, my series for Comedy Central continues this week with a fun episode with Mr. Tyrese Gibson. Oh man, Tyrese Gibson. Tyrese is, he's on another planet. And I mean that. And I love people on other planets. I love it when I get to visit them on that planet Tyrese, but I like to visit it. And I enjoyed visiting it for this episode of Stir Crazy. He's always been very sweet with me. And, you know, he's, the kind of conversation I have with him always is you just go along with the waves, you know, you ride the Tyrese waves because he's got some crazy things that he'll say, but they come from a good place. He's a talented guy. He can do it all. He's in a new Netflix holiday movie, The Christmas Chronicles, Volume 2, but this

episode of Stir Crazy goes to some wild and weird and fun places, and he was a blast. So check that out on Comedy Central's YouTube and Facebook pages. I appreciate all the kind words from my Kristen Stewart episode last week. That was a blast. Some more happiest season content coming your way, by the way, on next week's episode of Stir Crazy. There's a tease for you. Other things to mention, oh, the podcast. Well, for Happy Second Fused, I do want to just tease out. You know, I don't like to jinx it if you guys have heard my interest before. You know, I don't like to mention upcoming guests until they're really signed sealed and delivered and taped. but I do want to just say

I'm so thrilled with the upcoming guests on the podcast. I mean, I'm always, you know, honored and thrilled for the folks that come and come back to the podcast, but there's some really, really top-notch filmmakers that I have lined up in the next few weeks.

So some I've talked to before, some I've never talked to, at least on the podcast. So stick around, especially for the cinephiles out there. Now is the time of year where you're going to really, I think, dig the upcoming episodes.

of happy, sad, confused. So that's just a little tease for you guys. I hope you all had a great Thanksgiving. I hope you're enjoying the holidays as best you can in these strange times, even if you're not physically with your loved ones. I hope you're keeping in touch and keeping safe and doing the smart things

because, you know, we've got to ride out the storm and thankfully, thankfully, hopefully better days are ahead with vaccines and sane people in the White House. And, okay, no politics today. But other stuff I do want to mention, there's a lot of really cool content out there outside of Josh Horowitz content. Yes, I'm not in everything. I don't do it all. There's some really cool stuff out there. A surprisingly entertaining film, a series rather, is the flight

attendant. Not necessarily my bag, but I've been watching it with my wife. We've really been enjoying it. That's on HBO Max. I'm way behind on the undoing. Don't spoil the undoing for me, guys. I feel like it's been spoiled already, but whatever. And of course, if you are a cinephile and listening to this, big weekend coming up, Mank hits Netflix. I've seen seen it. It's well worth your time. It's Fincher. That is always worth your time. I need to check it out again. But it's got some great performances, some gorgeous direction cinematography from Fincher and his company of players. And it's about Hollywood. It's about a lot of things. But it's in part about some of the background that went into Citizen Kane and it's written by Fincher's

dad. It's just, look, if you love movies, you have to check out Mank. So we'll be talking about that, I'm sure, in the weeks and months to come. But I did want to mention that because that hits Netflix in a few days and that is definitely worth your time. As is this conversation with Mr. Scott Glenn, a living legend, a character actor, a sometime leading man. He can do it all. I'm so thrilled I got a chance to catch up with him. I hope you guys enjoyed this chat. Remember to review, rate and subscribe to Happy Sad Confused, spread the good word.

And in the meanwhile, here's me and Mr. Scott Glenn. No formal introductions except to say I've been looking forward to this one for quite a while. Scott Glenn, welcome to the happy, sick, confused podcast. Oh, thank you. You're somebody that, you know, I've grown up with, I've enjoyed it in so many different projects, there's so much to cover. This has been a good research assignment for me, to revisit films that I love, to watch you in interviews. You've got, you've accumulated some stories in your life, safe to say. Well, I'm old.

There are some old people that don't have good stories. You've got the combination of years and adventure. I'm curious, first of all, I think I'm talking to you from Idaho. Yes, sir. Yeah, I'm in Ketcham, Idaho. It's sunny and probably 23 degrees out. How have you been surviving this crazy year that's been so odd for all of us? Have you been in Idaho?

Oh, it's, you know, my... My pandemic fatigue sort of didn't send in until about a week ago and then it came crashing down around me like it does with all of us. I'm surviving. I'm, you know, my wife is a potter, which means her life has changed very little because she goes out to her studio just across the way and throws pots and does her art. And I can't do anything. I was telling a friend of mine the other day,

I never thought I'd hear myself say that I miss a four in the morning call sheet. Or do I miss it? This is the actor's life. They live in service of others in normal times of material and money for production. And now in these times, it's just become that much more difficult. Yeah, it's all that stuff.

You're right. I mean, normally, I still need to spend somebody else's money And, you know, producers like you and scripts and all this stuff in order to do what I do. Yeah. But with the pandemic, you know, it's, there's very little good about it. I guess it's turned me into a news junkie. And so right now, my, you know, I don't really know your politics. And I already like you because I heard your.

show so if this offends you all good i don't care i like my favorite thing right now is watching television is watching is watching trump squirm trying to avoid the day that he's been trying to avoid since his inauguration four years ago which is january the 21st when he wakes up with zero immunity yes we we are speaking the same language sir i have uh i'm i'm i'm in join some Schadenfreude. And yes, as a, I always say, look, I'm a New Yorker. I know you split your time in New York over the years somewhat. We knew for decades what we were dealing with. We saw him up close. Like we got it from the start. So it's, I'm thankful 80 million folks at least have wised up and figured out what we all knew, which is this guy was a con man

from the start. Insanity. So you're, as I alluded to before, you've lived quite the life of of accomplishment and adventure, I would say. I'm curious, does your life resemble in any small or big way what your parents' lives were? When you think back to the lives that they led, you certainly led, it's seemingly a different life, but are there echoes of your parents in the life you've led? My parents, I grew up in a boringly functional family. My mom and dad were in in love with each other till the very end until my dad died of cancer and then my mom hung on a little bit longer but uh it's a that's a tough question to answer it may be true of you with your parents i don't know my dad my dad came from a family family that was fed at christmas time

and honica by salvation army he stood in suit lines uh didn't go to school until uh true officer pulled him off of the line of the railroad groundhouse in Pittsburgh at the age of 12. So, I mean, those kind of experiences I can only dream about. I grew up with economic security and always a good meal on the table. and, you know, at the time, Pittsburgh was like a phenomenal city to grow up. And it was like a melting pot that hadn't really melted, but because of people like Franco Harris, everybody seemed to get along. There's part of me, and maybe most artists might say this.

I don't know, but there is part of me that oddly felt. like I might have been in the wrong basket in the hospital. I never planned. I knew when I was nine years old, I had scarlet fever. I wasn't supposed to have survived it. My mom and dad had to buy a plot. And they saved my life with crystalline penicillin. But with scarlet fever, it's a weird disease.

It attacks you all of your senses. So I was kind of, for a number of months, I was left in a room where I wasn't allowed to read because it can attack your eyesight. With me, it was my hearing, and I'd been functionally deaf since I was 10 years old. I had to lie about my hearing to get into the Marine Corps, which is some kind of craziness, I suppose. But at any rate, I had all that time to just live with my imagination, and I was kind of like, It was kind of like, I promised myself that I was, I was not going to have a Walter Middy experience, the dreams I was, of having an adventure and art, and I was going to make

all come true. So, did those, you mentioned, you know, growing up, Scarlet fever and being pretty infirm as a kid, does that influence you think in any way? You're, you've lived such like a physically active life. up until today. Is that part of it and that like you were not able to be active? Yeah, when I went back to school in Pittsburgh, I could take my finger and run it in and out of my root cage. And I grew up in a neighborhood that was, oh, I don't want to say it was rough or anything like that, but blue color and very, very physical. And prior to that illness,

I was, and probably still am. I had more girlfriends than I did boyfriends. I like poetry and talking about flower arrangements, better than playing sports. But after that disease, probably out of embarrassment, mortification even, at being so frail. I also, my bones were soft when I got out of bed, so I limped like Ratz-O-Rizzo for about five years. And I launched myself into anything that was physical, even though I wasn't that good at it.

Any sport, any tussle, anything that I just pushed myself into the middle of it. And then I guess four or five years later, I woke up one day realizing I had I had really fast reaction times and good hand-eye coordination. And I had actually gotten to love all this stuff. But yeah, you're right. Since then, I've discovered the world, in most cases, through my body first and my mind second. In watching some of the conversations with you over the past, you have one of the best epiphany I'm an actor stories I've ever

heard for an actor in terms of the journey to get to the point where like you found your calling before that moment which I'd love to hear a little bit more about you did you mentioned you were in the Marines for a few years you were a reporter did those experiences in retrospect feed into any of your abilities as an actor you think or were they apples and oranges just different no they all did yeah and you know part of my life has just been extreme good luck. But, you know, sooner or later, you find out that you have a skill that works if you stay around long enough and play enough parts. So, plus I remember my dad always telling me that he thought everyone in life got the same amount of luck. The trick was being able to,

number one, recognize it when you saw it, number two, having the skills to, be able to take advantage of it and his sort of his metaphor for that was you're walking down a stream and you look out and you see on an island a pot of gold and the water is running pretty strong well you can get the gold if you know how to swim in rough water but if you don't have those skills it's just something shiny sitting out there in the middle of the stream so And with acting, you know, you find out that the skills you have might actually work out and make, and make, give you more authority in what you're doing. When that, when that first bit of luck happened for you, and it sounds like it was as simple as calling the right number in the, in the yellow pages in New York, calling the right acting school and going to the right class and finding the right teacher. It was the village voice, actually.

Okay, there you go. but finding the right person that could recognize talent in you. Did you act on it? It sounds like it was something of an epiphany. It sounded like... It was Bill Hickey. Right. And in the basement of Berghoff Studios and Bankstri, I don't know if he'd even exist now.

But yeah, he'd given the... I just saw nothing under A, B, Burgoff. I called him up. I got Bill on the phone. He said, yeah, come on over and he gave me something to work on. A scene from, oh, dad, poor dad, mom, and was hung you in the closet, and I'm feeling so sad. Not a real well-known play. And something I was then and still am, and absolutely unfit for. But at any rate, yeah, I didn't even start the scene. I stood in front of, I guess, about 11 people down in that basement and started to open my mouth and it was literally like a light bulb went off between my eyes and I thought, holy shit, I'm an actor. And it and it was

in the way that maybe you felt this way about producing or writing or it wasn't so much an epiphany of, oh, I'm filled with joy and, you know, and the chip. of artistic relief was none of that. It was simply, for the first time, my life made sense to me. My continuing proclivity to daydream and fantasize and put those fantasies into some kind of physical express. Everything that made me feel like an outsider up until that moment, all of a sudden doing that made me feel like an insider.

Yeah. And he looked at me. Bill was amazing. I mean, he looked at me and he said, that's right, you're one of us. And I stood there. And then he said to the class, he said, Scott's not going to face this scene.

He's got to go outside, walk around a block a few times, and think about things. And I remember I went outside and I called my mom and dad on the phone. I said, I'm not going to the Virgin Islands. I'm not going to be a writer. I'm an actor and my dad again one of the wisest people I ever knew in my life my dad said son I have no idea of what you're talking about he said so the only piece of advice I can give you is don't give yourself any deadlines don't say if I haven't made it in four years I'm going to sell insurance or whatever he said that that's like starting a race with a lead we wheel weight, hunt around your neck. In for a penny, in for a pound. If you love it, make it your life. And he was right. I mean, yeah, in talking about, you know, finding your life, your

tribe, that's what all of us are trying to do in every which way, whether it's finding your partner, finding your home, finding your job. It's just finding what feel, what's right for you, what's comfortable. And you found that in Idaho, you found that with a life partner, you found that with a job, so you can count yourself triple lucky, I guess. Jim Bridges comes up a bunch in conversations you've had. Is he the guy that, if you had to point

your finger to one person, beyond maybe Bill Hickey, is responsible for the growth of your career of where it went? Yes, flat out. Flat out. I mean, the first movie I ever did, he cast me off of an off-Broadway play.

collision course and then later on with urban cowboy which I sort of walked away from when he first I'd done a Carol and I had moved to Idaho and and and I had pretty much given up any idea of having a career in front of the camera and our daughters were babysat and I thought I really can't go subject them to the life of a New York Street actor and we love it up here in Idaho so you know I'll do Shakespeare in the park and Boise I'll keep acting but but not but obviously I'm not gonna have a life in front of the camera and now I got a call from a guy I've been the Marine Corps with Rupert Hitzig who was also a producer and he gave me a

part in a small movie down in Mexico where I ran into to the one of the leads was Bird Lancaster, who literally taught me how to act in front of the camera. I mean, told when we were down in Mexico, it's funny how everything falls into place. I was told that I would hate him. And Rod Steiger, I would love, because we're both for actor studio, Lee Strasberg.

We both come at art from kind of the same direction. But watch out for Bert Lancaster. He's a star of the old school. He'll get in your key light. He'll screw you up. He's very competitive. So, Steiger and I met, and he was an amazingly talented guy, but we didn't like each other. It was dislike at first sight.

I ran to Burr, Lancaster, and he saw Carol, and I in the hotel in Durango, and he said to Carol, what do you do? And she said, I'm a potter. He said, got any pictures? She showed him a couple of pictures of what she did. And Bert said, you know what? You're really good. I want to commission you to make a 12-place dinnerware set for me. I only have the work of one other ceramic artists.

So that was her first commission. Didn't say really anything to me. The next day was our first day on the set. And right around lunch time, whenever lunch was, he walked over to me. And he said, has anybody ever taught you the difference between being on stage and being in front of the camera, a close-up camera? And I went, no. And he said, you know, I really think you've got something. And if you'll permit me to be a gigantic pain in the ass over the next, this was going to be a four-month shoot.

Over the next four months, I'll teach you everything I know. And I went, yeah. Yes, Mr. Lancaster. He did. He taught me. He taught me not only acting, taught me how to walk a tightrope and, and, you know, then when the film was over, we went back to L.A. Carol went over to his apartment to talk about her first commission, where she learned that the other ceramic artist he owns, name was Picasso. And then we both drove over to Paramount to say hi to Jim, because Jim and Jack, his partner, for many, many years were really important. We had our second kid because of a Jim's suggestion.

You ought to have another kid, you know, and you don't want just one kid. So we went over just to say hi and goodbye, walked in the office and Jim said, I don't believe this. You're perfect for the villain in this film that I'm writing. If you wait around for a few days and meet the star who has cast approval and the producers, I think I can make this happen. And I said, no, I don't do that. I don't walk into offices like a piece of meat anymore.

I just finished a movie in Mexico where I made almost $2,000 for four months. So I'm flush, and I'm going back to Idaho. Just wanted to say hi and tell you, I love you, and that's it. Two weeks later, I get a call from Jim, and he said, I'm now in Houston, come and do this movie, it'll change your life. You'll never have to audition again as long as you live. I'm telling you. So I'm going to send you a plane ticket.

And I said, nope, I don't want these people to have their hooks in. And even for a plane ticket, I'll get my truck and drive down, which is almost 1,000 miles away. So I did, fortunately, stopped off in front of Huntsville Prison just to take a look at it, because I knew the character. I read the script at that point and ran into a couple of guys I knew from another, time in my life, who were waiting for a guy to get out of jail who was a bank robber and a bull rider, the character I was going to play. So I met this guy and spent about a day with him and his two friends and then got out of that one as quickly as possible because I didn't want to

wind up in jail myself. But they gave me the ideas of, he said, get tattoos on your arm, have Western familiar on one former arm have the number of 13 and a half somewhere because that's the number that all bank robbers say get them in Hummstville I said what's that stand for he said judge jury and a half-ass lawyer and um he showed up in Houston and got the part what carroll and i just watched the film again and everything that jim said was true it changed my life it allowed me to live up here for the rest of my life and people started sending me scripts everything he said about that part was true and it's also oddly one of i was thinking about this the other day one of three parts where the part kind of played me where i really didn't

i just had to stay out of the way and let it take me on its ride and the other the other two parts would be an off-broad play I did, Killer Joe, which was Tracy Letts, and then Senior in The Leftovers, particularly an episode called Crazy White Pella Thinking. I want to talk about those things, if you'll indulge me. The play, I never saw this production, but that is a hell of a cast. You as Killer Joe, Sarah Paulson, who I just had on the podcast. Yep. My obsession, Michael Shannon, I believe, was in that production. talk to me about what i mean you've done a lot of stage work particularly earlier in your career this is one of the latter ones what was that production like what did you learn on the stage of doing

tracy's play well we started doing it uh and amanda plumber was in it who is um just ridiculously timely ridiculous in a lot of ways uh Amanda and Amanda and Amanda came up to me in the first day of rehearsal and she said, why are you doing this thing? And I went, because it's really required so much that most plays don't. You have to have, be willing to be naked literally physically and emotionally. You've got to bring people to the point where they're afraid, also that they're turned on. It's also a comedy. So if they ain't laughing, it ain't working. And we need the kind skills that you used to have, have to have as an actor, which were physical skills, be able to tumble and do stunts and all of that. And Amanda said, yeah, me too. And she said,

we're going to, at very best, we'll split the critics down the middle. And so we'll have all the fun. We'll do previews and be in and out of this thing in short order. What turned out was the New York Times specifically adopted us in there in two Sunday sections. We were sold out and we ran for six months. The thing about and every night I did that play, it kind of played me. And I kept thinking, what what does Killer Joe, the leftovers and Urban Cowboy, what do they have in common? What they have in common is brilliant, amazing writers. That's what they've got in common. And I feel that any actor who gets accolades for their work, if they don't first thank the writer and second, the director, are really pretty much full of shit.

Yeah. You mentioned Kevin Sr. in the left-overs. I know we're jumping around, but that's what I definitely want to get to. As we were talking before, we have a mutual friend in Damon Lindeloff who sang your praises when I reached out to him, and yes, you have this amazing standout episode in season three, as I recall. That, I mean, that's a gift for an actor, clearly. It's also a gift for an actor, frankly, in their 70s who that kind of a role does not come up. I mean, you basically had two plum choice roles in television almost simultaneously in Daredevil and the leftovers. So, again, luck, you know, meeting the luck, though, and rising to the challenge um talk to me when you get a script like that when damon calls you up and says okay this is

this is the episode um that just must get your heart beating and you must be thrilled well day was it was like car i hope i get to work with him again i don't know if i ever will or i'm i'm lucky to have done it once i sure would like to do it again i i at one point this is before before we uh the third season one excuse me we went to australia I called Damon up at one point and I said, do you have microphones hidden under my bed? It's like you're challenging, channeling me, except the words that you're giving me are way more profound and more entertaining and more surprising and edgier than anything I could come up with myself. I mean, I owe him so big time, and I'll never be able to pay it back. But I remember when that episode, before it arrived, Damon called me up and he said, I just wrote essentially the longest monologue I've ever written.

There's another guy in the scene that you're talking to, but essentially it's a monologue. When I went, oh, my God, what is it? Like three pages long? He said, no, seven and a half. And it arrived. And at the time, this is what I mean about just unbelievable good luck. So I have this huge scene in front of me. I was reading a book called Don't Shoot the Dog by a woman in her last thing was, excuse me, prior.

And she was talking about operant conditioning and positive conditioning. She said, you can use it to train dogs, to train your friends, to train your wife, or even to train yourself. And she said, for instance, if you have something long to memorize, why don't you try this instead of beginning at the beginning begin at the end so memorize the last three lines then the last paragraph and then so when you when you come to the end of that memorization it's the very beginning of the scene what it'll take you longer to do it and it'll be a little frustrating but once you have done it and you launch into it you'll be rewarding yourself with more more familiarity as you get towards the end of it.

You'll become stronger and stronger and more and more secure. Oh, I recognize this street lamp. Okay, I'm in my neighborhood now, and it worked perfectly. Now, why I should be reading that when Damon's script should arrive then? Good luck. Do you feel you're a better actor than you've ever been? I mean, with age comes experience. It also comes inevitably with diminishment.

of physical prowess and you live a hell of physical life, you know, there's the fear of any actor of like, oh, God, am I going to forget my lines? You've lived a life where you've like ingested a lot into that brain. Do you feel like you're still at your peak and beyond? Like you're still learning and growing? Yeah, I do. I mean, I think ageism exists. So there are a lot of assumptions. I'm 81. So I wake up every morning doing this sort of Russian special ops thing called baby fit. I won't bore you into going. But it's rolling around on the floor and doing a lot of calisthenics, a lot of backbends and stretches and push-ups and, you know, and tying them together and sort of body weight flows. So I'm aware of the fact that if I don't

stay on top of it, my body's going to fall apart in a half a second at this age. So that's just, excuse me, that's just something I've got to deal with. But I like it. It's fun. I think I'm probably, I think I'm better now. I know I'm better now than I ever had been before it because I just have more, more little dabs of pain on the palate to work with. more in the toolbox. This, you know, ostensibly I have you on obviously beyond, beyond just doing an extended episode of This Is Your Life,

but also to promote this film Greenland, which you're a part of, which I very much enjoyed. And it's with Gerard Butler, Marina Baccarin, directed by Rick Roman Waugh. Talk to me a little bit about the reason to do a film today versus 20 years ago.

I mean, I've heard you talk about, like, you know, one of the joys that you have in your life now is you don't have to take a job for money just to make money. You can kind of follow your inspiration and your venture. So what's the reason for this one in particular? The reason for this one was a conversation with Rick Waugh.

And when I heard his last name, I wanted to talk to him anyway because of a character that I had wanted to play and still do, his last name was Waugh. And I thought, ooh, he lives in Texas. maybe they're related. That was pretty much it. And he talked to me about, and I knew the film was a disaster film.

And but after talking to him, he said, what, the part of the film that the urine, Rick, talking to me, is where the film gets its deepest heart. And what I want this film to be about is friends and family or extended family or gathering of the tribes being a way of dealing with impending international disaster. So what's important is that you're looking at somebody, not only family, but somebody who you love or care about, and that making those relationships work is finally all that counts. and you know and he said you i want you to play a guy who's lost his wife and it really isn't interested in continuing on without her but wants to make his family whole before they leave the situation what none of us knew at the time was i mean i'd never heard the term coronavirus nor had any of us now the film is coming out and

The hints of an international pandemic are there in your face all the time. Because those kind of things, if they, if, I mean, I think what really killed Trump was the, was the pandemic. He could wrap his head around, I think, in very dark and negative ways, but nevertheless, skillful political constructs, dealing with people. he couldn't and still can't wrap his head around a purely biological event. But what the event did, and I think also a comet headed towards the earth, does as well. But really, the pandemic, is force us to see each other and ourselves in our in our seminal very first identity, which is a single species. We're human beings.

We may love or hate each other because of the shape of our nose or ears or the color of our skin. But finally, when we look at each other, we're seeing the same thing, a single species. And I think it makes possible a Black Lives Matter movement that involves rich white kids as well. because we're in this thing that is slamming us in the face with. You're a human being. All this virus wants is a circulatory system and a couple lungs, and it's in business. And so I think that the film, I think that Greenland has a kind of resonance

that none of us at the time we were making it knew. No, I, in all honesty, was very impressed. something like this with some preconceived notions. You've seen a lot of disaster films of this type. But I think first, yes, the residents of the times we're living in, but also this kind of just on the ground, very basic. We're not in the Oval Office with government officials. We're with human beings just dealing with, as you said,

the pertinent family human issues that some kind of worldwide crisis like this brings up. And I found it very effective and moving at times. Before I let you go, I mean, you have such a career, that, like, I could spend six hours going through different films, so I want to throw a couple different experiences at you. One before, even Urban Cowboy, just because it's one of the most story productions ever,

is Apocalypse Now, which you have not a significant role in, but you were there, as I understand it, for a significant period of time, because that's the nature of that kind of production. So, yeah, in the film, like, tell me about being in the Philippines, was Francis as out of his mind over his head as he seems? They all were. Yeah?

Yeah. Yeah, Francis wanted each of us when we came over there to dip as deeply as possible into our own psychosis. So whatever deep craziness turned you on over in the Philippines, Francis supported that. You know, with someone like Victoria Sturaro, it meant waiting forever for the right shot. forever for the right shot. And I'm talking hours. We can have a shot set up that involve 200 extras of Marlon Brando and, you know, and Martin Sheen and, and take two, three hours setting up the shot. We'd be ready for the first action. And Victoria would look at, in RICO, in Italian's operator, look at Francis and go, oh, Francis, the cloud is so good.

Victoria doesn't like the clouds. What do you think, Victoria? I said, ah, you know, two, maybe three hours will be ready. So we sat around for two or three hours. I mean, that was the whole show. For me, it was living with the Ithagall. And being taken into the tribe and being given an Iphagau name and, and, and, and having some adventures

I can't even talk about because that's for you there's the statute of limitations whatever here to get any experiences what were your experience with Brando like well what happened was and I won't go into great detail but Francis I think incorrectly

but nevertheless he felt like he owed me his life because we were hit with a typhoon. There was the worst typhoon to hit the Philippines since 1932 D-Dang, it was called. And some stuff happened during that. At any rate, Francis said, I owe you, let me write you another part in this film, a great part. And what do you want? Just give me an idea.

And I said, I want to be in the end of the film. He said, that's the only part of this movie. I cannot write you. And he said, it's completely cast. I mean, I could give you the part of the guy who went up the river ahead of Martin. I said, who's that? And he said, Captain Colby, a green beret. But he said it would be like being almost an extra.

You might have two or three words. And I said, that's what I want to do. And the reason I wanted to do it was because I thought and still do that any kind of performance art, maybe any art at all, but certainly performance art is not something you're learning from a book or in school, but it's an apprenticeship. And I wanted to be around Marlon Brando and Dennis Hopper and Francis working with those two guys. And I knew it would change my life. And I just wanted that experience and had that experience. And it did change my life completely. I wrote Francis an email about a few months ago when the final version of

apocalypse came out. Yeah. And I said, you gave me the greatest gift that anyone can give another artist, maybe another person, which is the gift of self-confidence. Because before I went to the Philippines and I go do a, you know, like an audition at Universal and they say you swim too much and you don't do this. And I get angry and walk out the door and I think, God, maybe I suck. Maybe I was really good doing theater in New York, but maybe I, maybe they're right about me. And then when I came back from the Philippines, I was just a, you know, pay in the ass, arrogant actor because I would go through that same experience and I would look at them and I'd say what do you know? I just finished working with Marlon Brando and Francis Copeland and Dennis

Hopper. By the way, you can't direct traffic and they would throw me out of this off the lot. The run that you had in the early 90s hit me when I was like a teenager who was becoming obsessed with film. So, you know, that I think of like these big, screen entertainments that also functioned as just like great storytelling, Hunt for Red October, obviously Silence of the Lambs. I was obsessed with backdraft at the time. Those, I mean, we could spend again an hour on each of those, but I guess, you know, we recently lost Sean Connery on Red October. As I recall, you didn't share many scenes with Sean, but, you know, John McTiernan has a handful of pretty exceptional thriller action

movies, and that's at the top of the list. Did that, you know it's the old cliche question for any actor did you know at the time when you're making red october that this has the ingredients to be something beyond a adaptation of a you know airport novel no i really didn't i i what john called me up and he said i want you to play the part of mancuso and the joy of all of this stuff for me is research i just love it i i love it without the uh without the excuse of a paycheck and a performance. But, and I didn't really, I, I, I actually had an idea of how I was going to play Mancuso. And then I remember, I said, is there any way I can get a ride on a fast attack sub?

And they said, we don't know. And I said, well, you know, I got a passport. I was in the Marine Corps. I don't mind being, they can look into check. I'd love to be able to do that. And Paramount said they didn't think they could make it happen. And then at the last minute, I'm off here in Idaho, and I get a call, yeah, can you be in San Diego tomorrow? And Captain Fargo is leaving on the Salt Lake City, and we'll take you along.

So I get down to San Diego flights and get there, walk on board the Salt Lake City. My hair is down over my shoulder. I look like a hell's angel. And Tom Fargo said, I hope you won't mind, Scott, but I've given everybody on board this boat orders to treat you as the same rank as me. So when someone comes up and reports to me, they're going to turn and they're going to give the same report to you. And then I'm going to tell you what we're going to do about it for these days that we're out

doing these war games. He said, with a few exceptions, and those few exceptions, I'm going to ask you to retire to your bunk, because there's a lot of top secret stuff happening out here. And so I got that experience, and I watched Tom Fargo and completely debunked my idea of how to play. I was going to play this hard ass, and I realized, this guy never really gives a heavy order to anybody on. board this boat they're like like suggestions that are obeyed just like that yeah he knew everyone's first name he knew the jokes that would make every every guy on board the boat laugh he knew the names of their girlfriends and their kids and it was he was so perfect that i thought you know what i'm just going to steal this performance i'm just going to copy tom fargo who wound up

being Admiral of the Pacific. So he had the illustrious career in the Navy. When I got off that boat, having done that research, I felt that there was there was kind of a human story about all those people, especially Jonesy, the radio operator, that would have some kind of depth and that and something I could hang my hat on. And then Sean Connery is funny you should mention that gave me again a great gift. He gave me the last scene in that movie. He was supposed to do it. He was he went into the engine room had his gunfight with the fifth columnist who came back and took over the red October and did that game of chicken at the very end. So we're ready to shoot that scene and Sean walks in and he said, I've been thinking about this. It's Scott's scene. Scott, are you ready to do the same? I went, yeah, what, but that you're seeing, Sean, he said, I was in the royal name. One does not hand over command of his vessel to someone else of equal rank and get to take it back. And he said, if you're, you know, he said, if you, you tell me you would give me back command, I don't want you playing this part because no

naval captain would. And meanwhile, Mace Neufeld and a couple of the other producers said, no, no, Sean, it's your scene. He said, it's not. Wow. I will observe this. It's Scott's seen. And he insisted on that. Holy shit. He gave me the best scene in the movie. What a gift. Amazing. I'll let you go on this note because I would be remiss to not talk a little bit about Silence of the Lambs, which I'm sure you get, you know, talk to your ear off for 30 years. But it has such resonance. It's a film that holds up so well. You were talking about research.

I'm curious, are you like the one person on the planet that maybe can't enjoy Silence of the Lambs? Because it took a toll on you in a different way than it did the audience. Yeah. Yeah, it still interrupts my sleep. And again, I asked for it. That was research. I was working with John Douglas, who created behavioral science and the investigation of, they don't call it serial killing. They call it sexual homicide, which is a much more accurate term. And I remember, though, I've been with him for Jonathan Demme, who was really a close friend of Carols and mine. And Oh, boy. That's also not easy. But I've been working with John for a week and a half, maybe two weeks done at Quantico. And I said, thank you for letting me in on your life. He said, yeah, I didn't let you in. You want to be part of my life? I visited his office. I said, yeah. And he said, here's a boombox. He opened a closet. Unlocked it. They gave me at the key, took out a cassette, put it in the boom box. He said, I'm going to close the door. You

lock the door after I do. I'll be at the end of the hall. You listen to as much of this as you want to. When you're finished, put everything back in the closet and come and see me and you're going to want to punch me right in the face and don't because you asked for it. I'm like, okay. So he left and it was these two guys drove around LA picking up kids, young girls, really young, really, really young. And brutalizing them in the back of the van. And I won't go into what, but it was, and they take the whole thing. I listened to five minutes of it, maybe four, I don't know, put it away, open the door, there's John at the end of the hall. And I'm thinking, I'm going to, how dare he scar me like this for my life? And he went, hey, now you're part of

my life. And I can't. Yeah, I don't think I'll ever completely walk away from that one. Yeah, I completely understand, even just the taste of that story. Yeah, I mean, as I said, I went into this being such an admirer of your work, but like having done all the research and hearing all your stories, I admire the life you've lived and the adventures that you've gone on and the attitude you've had about it, the humility that you clearly have. But you're one of the greats, man. I really appreciate your time today. Congratulations on Greenland, and hopefully when all this is over, we can see each other in New York. Have you ever done this live in New York?

Yeah, I usually do it before all this madness. I did it right in my office in New York City. You get the vaccine. I get the vaccine. Let's do it. It's a date. And so ends another edition of Happy, Sad, Confused. Remember to review, rate, and subscribe to this show on iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts.

I'm a big podcast person. I'm Daisy Ridley, and I definitely wasn't pressured to do this by Josh. American history is full of infamous tales that continue to captivate audiences, decades, or even hundreds of years after they happened. On the infamous America podcast, you'll hear the truth. true stories of the Salem Witch Trials and the escape attempts from Alcatraz, of bank robbers like John Dillinger and Pretty Boy Floyd, of killers like Lizzie Borden and Charles Starkweather, of mysteries like the Black Dahlia and D.B. Cooper, and of events that inspired movies like Goodfellas, Killers of the Flower Moon, Zodiac, Eight Men Out, and many more. I'm Chris Wimmer.

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