Happy Sad Confused - Sebastian Stan, Vol. III

Episode Date: October 17, 2024

Sebastian Stan is having quite the Fall. He's showing off new sides of his career with a turn as Donald Trump (that's right) in THE APPRENTICE and in the unusual dark comedy, A DIFFERENT MAN. But there's so much more to discuss too, from his Marvel return in THUNDERBOLTS to his close calls with Green Lantern and Star Trek. Subscribe here⁠ to the new Happy Sad Confused clips channel so you don't miss any of the best bits of Josh's conversations! SUPPORT OUR SPONSORS! ZocDoc -- Go to ZocDoc.com/HappySad BetterHelp -- Go to BetterHelp.com/HSC for 10%off UPCOMING LIVE EVENTS! Andrew Garfield 10/4 -- tickets here! 10th Anniversary event with David Harbour, Sam Heughan, Jack Quaid, and more! 10/17 -- tickets here! Anna Kendrick 10/22 -- tickets here! Check out the ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Happy Sad Confused patreon here⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠! We've got discount codes to live events, merch, early access, exclusive episodes, video versions of the podcast, and more! To watch episodes of Happy Sad Confused, subscribe to ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Josh's youtube channel here⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

When you're with Amex Platinum, you get access to exclusive dining experiences and an annual travel credit. So the best tapas in town might be in a new town altogether. That's the powerful backing of Amex. Terms and conditions apply. Learn more at Amex.ca. The Twisted Tale of Amanda Knox is an eight-episode Hulu Original Limited series that blends gripping pacing with emotional complexity, offering a dramatized look as it revisits the wrongful conviction of Amanda Knox for the tragic murder of Meredith Kircher and the relentless media storm that followed. The Twisted Tale of Amanda Knox is now streaming only on Disney Plus.

Hey, true crime fans. Tired of ads interrupting your gripping investigations? Good news. With Amazon music, you have access to the largest catalog of ad-free top podcasts included with your prime membership. After all, ads shouldn't be the scariest thing about true crime. To start listening, download the Amazon music app for free. Or go to Amazon.com slash ad-free true crime. That's Amazon.com slash ad-free true crime to catch up on the latest episodes without the ads. Okay, it's official. We are very much in the final sprint to election day.

And face it, between debates, polling releases, even court appearances. It can feel exhausting, even impossible to keep up with. I'm Brad Nilke. I'm the host of Start Here, the Daily Podcast from ABC News. And every morning, my team and I get you caught up on the day's news in a quick, straightforward way that's easy to understand, with just enough context so you can listen, get it, and go on with your day. So, kickstart your morning.

Start Smart with Start Here and ABC News because staying informed shouldn't feel overwhelming. It's been a minute since you've done a play. I keep trying to get Chris Evans. Look, here's the thing. If you really want to see... Do True West with Chris Evans? What do you do?

No, I want to do Speed the Plow with Chris Evans. But I would do True West with Chris Evans. And here's the thing, if anybody's watching this, and you want to see Chris Evans and myself on stage, I want to just bother him, text him, DM him. I don't know, whatever. Make posters and send to him. Because I'm trying to get him.

I'm trying to get him. I'm making a public right now, Chris, we're going. We can do this. Prepare your ears, humans. Happy, sad, confused begins now. I'm Josh Horowitz. And today on Happy, Say I Confused, Sebastian is back. He left the metal arm at home, but he did bring two good movies,

two great movies to talk about The Apprentice. a different man. He's a veteran of the podcast. For good or for bad, you're a veteran man. It's been a while, though, I think, since I did. For the podcast, that way. So we've had our short bursts, but you've brought the goods to really dig in today. How are you feeling, man?

I feel, I feel pretty good. It's great to see you, you know. I'm excited to, yeah. Tell me, does, do all the accolades, the great reviews right now, do they fill the dark emptiness in the pit of your soul? That always walks with me at every moment of the day. It gets, it's pretty good right now. So I hope you're happy now.

If you can't be happy with these two performances and films, then we have to worry. Yeah. Well, it, yeah. I mean, I think I've made a practice in the last couple of years waking up every morning and actually doing a whole gratitude list and everything. It definitely helps. And yeah, it's exciting to have both of these things out at the same time. It's not what I really thought was going to happen.

I mean, somehow one of them was maybe never going to come out. And the other one, you know, we did it before the strike. And so everything kind of got shifted around. And we were at Sundance, and then I didn't think we were going to go out in the fall. Yeah. So it's interesting timing, but I'm grateful. What's been, I saw you briefly at Comic-Con on the other. other side of your life and career.

What's been the professional highlight so far you think of this year? Whether a film festival experience, a moment on set, when you think back to the year that's been so far, I don't know, what's, what's like, it's going to be hard to beat this one. I mean, it will be hard because, because I started off the year with Apprentice. We finished February 1st. I got to go to Sundance. I went to Berlin for the first time. And the silver bear nod was.

really special. I never thought that was happening. And then I was in Atlanta doing a new rendition in a movie. And that was exciting. And then Cannes. I've never been a can before. So that was a lot of, for someone that's been doing this a minute, you're hitting some new new things. Yeah, yeah. It was a very, a lot of new things, new experiences. Okay, let's start on the Apprentice. I mean, both of these films are remarkable in their own ways. The Apprentice is one of these movies. You play Donald Trump in this, Jeremy Strong, Amazing, as iconic Roy Cohn in his own right. I mean, 90% of actors, when this comes around, it's probably like an instinctual, like, nope, next. Right. Not even, like, why even bother thinking about something as potentially toxic

and polarizing? But this clearly touched a different kind of chord with you. Yeah. I have to say, I was curious as to why I got a call. Why me? And also it goes back to Carmen Cuba, who I've always admired and respected. And she sent me the script in 2019, and she said, look, there's this incredible filmmaker. You should be aware of Hali Abbasian. You should look at his films and you should meet with him. And I got familiar with him.

and I thought, wow, I was blown away by his work ethic and the amount of risk taking that he was taking in his life and how he was approaching everything. And I thought if anyone ever was going to approach a movie about Donald Trump, I think this man might actually be the best fit because he's not from here. You know, he's Iranian, but he's, he's in Europe, in Copenhagen, he's not, he's not playing for the blue team, he's not playing for the red team. He's on the outside, and he might actually offer something here that we deep in the trenches can't see.

And I think that might be worth exploring. What's the, there's got to be multiple moments of second guessing the decision, though. I mean, this happens with any role. Every time the movie fell apart was like, oh, here's the not, maybe this is not. Is this a sign? Is this a sign? Tell me now. Yeah.

Did you seriously consider, like, dropping out at any point? Did you seriously think, like, okay, maybe this is just too, the degree of difficulty is too much? I did. I did 100% because there were, it was not encouraging along the way. I mean, there were many people that were looking at me like, you don't look anything like him. I mean, how, what is there to, you know, I'm never going to buy it or, or people that were legitimate, people I respected in the business who I was asking their opinions and they were saying, I don't know why do this, why try to alienate people?

Yeah, yeah. So, but for some reason, every time I was feeling a doubt and I was exploring the doubt, it was always motivated by fear. And I thought, I can't, I can't let fear make decisions for me. It's just, it goes against everything I'm trying to do in my life. And I think against the reason of why this movie should be made anyway. And so I stuck in there. It's interesting to say fear because I was thinking it's like there are different motivators for all of us and doing our work.

And especially for artists attempting to craft a performance. Like fear is a motivator. Confidence also can fuel you. And in this case, it feels like, I mean, you have to know you've got it in you. You have to have some confidence. But it seems like the fear of failure and making an ass of yourself is almost stronger in a way. Yeah, I mean, last couple of years, it's interesting, I actually have started to feel better about starting a ground zero with a project or something, meaning not knowing how to approach it. And that actually being a good sign rather than a bad sign.

Because if I was too comfortable, if I was too confident, then there's probably something there that I've already done. and I'm just trying to not repeat myself in a way and also if it's complicated feelings it might spell out that there's something I don't know about this that there's something I should go deeper in and explore I've been thinking a lot also as it pertains to this film but generally in life about how we project things

on a people and sometimes when we have really strong reactions towards other people or situations it's actually because, in a way, we don't want to admit it, but it might bring up something in us that we haven't quite dealt with or something that we don't like in ourselves. Of course. We're all narcissists. We all have elements of whether you love or hate this man inside of us.

Right, but I think, and I think, again, it's as it pertains, and it's a complicated answer. Like there's no direct answer to this, but I think there's still, I guess, For me, my approach was it's not just necessarily about the opportunity of learning about someone as you clear away the noise, but it's also an opportunity about learning through this person about ourselves. Right.

Knowing what we know of this man from your performance and all the stuff we read and seen over the years, there's a zero percent chance he will not not see this movie. He will see this movie. He has to, his curiosity about himself is just too rampant. Yeah. You must have thought about that too, not only that he's going to see it, he's probably going to tweet about it. And he might say you're the worst person ever or the greatest, and there are implications to both of those things. Yeah, I don't know.

It's, I didn't certainly has crossed my mind, but that wasn't going to really affect, I guess, what I was trying to do. You know, you go into this and you try to kind of. of put your little hat with your little light on and go into the, go into the darkness and try to find the light as best as you can. And I just, again, me thinking about that would be me approaching this from a result-oriented place. And I have to tell you, even as I was in makeup test and we had prosthetics test that didn't work and turned out terribly, there was always an element of failure with this. Even when we were doing it, I was like, am I doing too much? Am I doing too little? When is it enough? Is it what will come across? You know, it's, there was always

this, this sort of thing that kept dancing ahead of you, a shadow that you were kind of chasing in a way. And, but you can't, you can't get into anything with, with expectations or results. Projecting the awards, the film festivals, the reviews. It doesn't, it doesn't. It doesn't. It doesn't. work there in lies madness yeah i i i was already for me i i accepted going into this that i was going to be at a lose lose situation no matter what i was going to do because because you know i i you don't do this to be i mean i guess you don't expect applause from it but you don't also expect people to understand it because we're in such a tricky place right now it's really difficult to get people to open up and see it from different angles so i don't know but it's funny it's like invariably like

when I think of your career and, you know, this kind of like demarcation between the Marvel stuff and everything else, it's like our longer conversations invariably have been about, you know, when you were promoting the bronze or I Tanya. And it's like these are the juicy, weird swings that clearly like fuel your soul as much as, I mean, I get no, no shade to Bucky. You love Marvel too. But like, it's, you have just played your hand in such. the perfect way in terms of like using that collateral to do the risky weird stuff as far as I'm I think I've been really lucky yeah because I feel not everybody has a chance to go back to something for 15 years like I had yeah and and be able to explore different avenues while during that I don't know if I would have had these things if I didn't have Marvel I never um I'm not sure even if the desire for exploring different avenues would have come if I didn't have a character to go back to that allowed me to grow up with in a certain way people say well why don't you you know why don't you ever they've said to me like why don't you try more conventional

leading man roles or something and in my head I even though I never consider Bucky a conventional leading character it's it was still something that I was getting to do there that kind of clicked that box for me in a way. I was telling you before I listened to your great conversation with Mark Maron and it actually sparked a follow-up question for me. You were talking to Mark about often thinking about like a key emotional need that each of your characters. Yeah. So let's apply that first to Donald Trump. Did you have that very specifically in mind?

Like what was his emotional need that kind of was a North Star for you? it seems to me and again i have to i i feel like i always have to do diligence to because people love to take things and run away for them like i'm not a i'm not a therapist i'm not a psychotherapist i'm not a psychoanalyst here like uh so i don't speak from that i speak simply from an interpretive place uh and a place that i felt lived in me exploring this person and to me that seems to be to be the most powerful man in the world where no where I'll never feel powerless again in my entire existence right um that can drive someone you know and that can that can overpower a lot of things that can overpower a lot of other emotions I may have that

I don't want to feel anymore uh or that may drive certain decisions I mean yeah I think when it comes to characters, real or not. I mean, I think we all have emotional needs that that drive us. I feel, you know, I've come kind of growing up sort of in different countries and not always knowing my own identity or where I came from or feeling like, you know, because of the relationship I have with my caretakers needing to be heard, needing to prove, I mean, that's a lot of that that drives me right as well i mean from from my past you know i think i think it's interesting to to kind of understand what we're all coming from only so that we can become better at catching ourselves make decisions uh that maybe sometimes we shouldn't be making well and there's

nothing like everything can be perverted to an extreme right like ambition on its own is great But it comes with a price. It comes with a price. And if you take it to an extreme at the detriment of friends and family and morals, then... Is it worth it? I guess that's the question, right? Is it worth it? What's the...

How far do you go? And I think this thing about power is very important what you're saying because I've always believed in that concept. Absolute power corrupts, absolutely. And I guess that's... that's part of the the question that the movie is asking is is are any of us saved from that are any of us that come from you know sort of with with whatever upbringings of or or moral virtues in a certain certain place of absolute power would we you know are people really capable of behaving differently or not or what does it do to a person?

What happens when you sacrifice your humanity for that thing? Right. Al-Lhamas with menu Pizza Hut, My Box, the new. Four chayers to addle her on how you. And, zied on it with her hood. I'llop my box today and let it on thugue you. Pizza or Meltz, all by kifk. And, your sidebates, eachter two or a mishroop.

Chiarat your not end up. There's your shorthic and your chitza hat, My Box, the new, pizzas at mybox the new, by your churotic and your, pizzashatt I'll-lop-lop-l-l-day. As power and acclaim and celebrity accumulated for you, not to say you went off the deep end and abused it, but, like, you know, you were a young man when Gossip Girl happened. Like, I mean, I'm sure that must have been, like, a fun time that could have easily turned into, like, oh shit am i turning into a douchebag like there's a fine line and kind of like enjoying the

spoils and then yeah i mean i mean it's funny about power because like rarely as an actor sometimes you actually feel quite powerless believe it or not i mean i never i was never i didn't get like all those phone calls where where stephen spielberg and all these people wanted to work with me there were there were many times in my life where i was just trying to get a job to pay my rent and and and and then and then there is a degree of power Because powerlessness that you feel when suddenly you do get success and everybody in the world has an opinion about you and writes whatever they want, regardless of the truth or regardless of who you are, it's like it's all there kind of, you're just public property. Yes. So there's that too.

But I think in terms of Gossip Girl, you know, it's a show that's very still has a soft place in my heart. So I caught up recently with Chase about the boys. Oh, okay. Great. He's found such a perfect, amazing role for him. He's killing it. He's very funny. Have you watched the boys? I have.

And also the recent, there was a couple clips with him recently that I've been floating around the internet that when he's like doing like those intense stairs that are just really funny. He, he's one of the funniest actors I've ever met. And I feel like people haven't even discovered that yet. Yeah. There's a deadpan quality to that character that really works. Talk to me a little bit about back to Apprentice for a second. and then we'll shift to a different man. It's also a treat.

I mentioned Jeremy Strong. Oh, my God, to see you guys together in this. I mean, we know what Jeremy Strong is capable of. And Roy Cohn is quite a character to play. What's it like to go? You know, the tennis match back and forth with something like this. There's like so much like notoriety about kind of like how he approaches roles. He's like the new Daniel Day Lewis and kind of going method.

Did you experience a little bit of that or was he different than you expected? I don't, I mean, we met before we started. shooting at this place and I knew within like five minutes that we were going to see eye to eye and come come at this in the same way the care and the commitment and the level of dedication was going to be there and I immediately appreciate and admire that and this was always going to be a partnership in my head and and then weirdly our first meeting was not to unlike kind of our meeting in the movie because we went to this place and um he goes what do you want to drink and i said no i don't drink because you know i'm don't trump doesn't drink and he was like

well you drink with me so because you he drinks with roy collins i was like i guess you're right but like if i'm going to play that game i guess i got to go with you on that yeah and we and then the next time i saw him was was on set and we were all in basically in character and makeup, you know, in wardrobe and everything. And because of the nature of this shoot, I didn't really seem until the end. But I've never felt more excited to go to work with somebody who I felt was going to come in there with everything they had. And that only elevated me. It only inspired me to try to show up. I want to give some love to a different man as well, which is like such an odd duck in the best possible way that this movie exists in the universe is fantastic um

this is you know this is a small movie 22 days as i understand it this is i'm going to let you set it up because this is a hard one to kind of like summarize but like vibe-wise it has like and i mean this is high praise it's like a little charlie coffman a little lynch a little cohen brothers even it's funny it's sad it's dramatic um what the hell is this movie what do we say well how do you describe this one to friends the best the the the best two things that I remember somebody saying was uh about it was wow I've never seen anything like this movie and I think that really applies here because it is funny and in some ways it is a comedy in other ways it's tragic so it is a tragedy at the same time it is a political it is a not political but it is a

psychological thriller it really blends all these genres together and into this sort of like concussion that you that you were referencing and um and at the heart of it it's also about identity and how far we're willing to go to deny who we are and and deny reality not to unlike the other film we're discussing but um in this case um you know it it's about choices and sometimes not realizing that maybe the thing you want you already have. Right. And so that whole thing is kind of camouflaged within the story of a guy

who's an aspiring actor, he's got neuropharmatosis, and then he undergoes this surgery and sort of starts looking like everybody else and thinks he's going to have a normal life, but then quickly finds out. that there's been a play written about his previous self and not only that

it's going to be an acclaimed it's going to go to acclaim and there's going to be a movie made out of it and he tries to kind of get back in there as a way to claim back his life and it's too late and you're playing opposite is Adam Pearson do I have that right who delivers an amazing performance

who's a man that suffers from this affliction NF1 yeah and it's I mean talk about keeping you honest I would imagine this is like as if you were doing The Apprentice with actually Roy Cohn in front of you, which is the same difference as Jeremy, I guess. Right, exactly. I mean, yeah, Adam is incredible to work with.

I mean, and it's really interesting because he doesn't suffer from this condition. He actually totally has embraced it, you know? I mean, he is somebody that completely owns who he is. And he's coming in here and playing this. this really wild, gregarious, extroverted role that Aaron Schimberg, our director, has written for him. And it totally defies all the expectations and the stereotypes we've had of disabled or disfigured people playing these kinds of roles where they, you sort of see them as sad and lonely and isolated. And it just flips that on its head. And I just think it's so unique and wonderful.

I thought it was really funny. I was listening back to one of our old conversations on the podcast. about probably at least 10 years ago. And I asked you who the most interesting actor working today is. Slight spoiler work for this movie. You mentioned Michael Shannon, who's like one of my obsessions. Ended up in a different man. And Michael Shannon ended up in a different man

because he's such a big fan of Aaron's last film, Chained for Life. And that was the most bizarre experience because we never thought in a million years we were going to get him. And then he actually agreed to do it and the time he worked out, and then he came in. And it was one of the best days we had on the whole shoot.

I love it, I love it. Okay, so playing the greatest hits a little bit. We mentioned Gossip Girl, but I'm curious, like, when I'm looking back at the chronology, did you feel like you were, like, almost leading two different lives? Because around Gossip Girl, you're also doing talk radio on Broadway, as I remembered. You obviously couldn't probably do both exactly at the same time.

It was actually before. Talk radio was before, too before. The talk already was 2006, 2005, 2006, I believe. And this is classic Eric Bikosian play. Actually, sorry, 2006, 2007, yeah. Okay. And Gossip Girl came 2007. Got it.

So, I mean, again, that kind of like sums up you right then and there. It's like it's the same as talking about like Bucky versus a different man. We're talking like Eric Bogosian versus Gossip Girl. Like you contained multitudes from the start. Like, did it feel like you were showing off what you could do? Did you feel like at that stage in your career like you were starting to or you were just going along with the flow of whatever was available? No, I'm, I'm always, I've always come at this from a place of I got to learn. I got to keep learning.

I got to keep learning. I don't feel like I ever have it figured out. I don't want to. I'm almost like scared to. I, even I, you know, Jeremy and I always talked a lot about Al Pacino, the amazing Alpuccino. the amazing Appuccino. And this is the same thing I was going to say about Jeremy. I feel like one of the things that I love about him is he, he's almost two steps ahead

of himself in a way. And he always knows that he's got to keep in love with this thing. We have to keep in love with this thing. And we can't, the second you think you've got it, I think it's when it all starts to go downhill. And back then, It was really just about getting a job. And I mean, and also just staying in New York, which is what I wanted to do.

I never wanted to move to California. I had a lot of friends that I went, you know, went to school with and moved to L.A. And I was going out there for pilot season, but it was, it was just working in New York. What was, there must have been a close call or two before Marvel that you thought, this is going to be the one that changes everything. Like did you, you know, were you going up for Captain Kirk, Prince Caspian? We're like, what were you, like, I went out. There were a couple things I didn't get, I mean, that I really desperately wanted.

There was a movie with Russell Crow that I wanted so badly, and like I didn't get. I can't remember the name of that. There was another movie, Mysteries of Pittsburgh that I wanted to get, didn't get. I remember losing a lot of stuff to, like, John Foster at the time, Ben Foster's brother. But, yeah, I think Captain Kirk for J.J. Abrams Star Trek, that was one of the first things I got very close to. Is that true? I just threw that out of. Oh, really?

I didn't know that. I didn't know that. But, like, I could see it. I could see you being up for that. No, I remember I was really, really close. And I remember I had a screen test with him at Paramount Studios. And I remember my manager had me do like a separate photo shoot. where I would try and replicate all of these William Shatner pictures

just to send to him to see how much I looked like him and stuff. Anyway, I didn't get it. And then I think I told you there was Green Lantern was another one that I screen tested for. I remember getting there and it was like me, Justin Timberlin, Jared Leto, Ryan Reynolds, and maybe one other person. And I'm looking at these guys going. Which one of these is not wrong?

fucked. No way this is happening for me. Like at all, but you know I would you'd come close sure and it wouldn't happen and in a way like I got to tell you I mean looking back I'm almost glad it didn't because I don't know if I could have handled that level of attention like some of those guys you know. I feel like it's cruel that like in this day and age they can't separate you You have to be in a physical space where you see Justin Timberlake across the room. Can't we figure this out? I didn't see them, but I was told. I was very aware of like, you get to know who you're, who the other people are.

Like even for Captain America, it was like, Chase was in there, John Krasinski. Right. Remember Mike Vogel almost got it back then. Yes, Mike Vogel was in there. Like you would hear about kind of these other people. And it's kind of not great. you're like because you're measuring up and you're going like oh I don't think I'm getting this yeah do you have uh looking at at the many different performances and films and TV you've

appeared in as bucky you have a favorite performance moments if you get a scene of film arc for the character I I I've I'll always have a soft spot for for that winter soldier captain America winter soldier I mean also just with the Rousseau's coming in and And the way that movie was shot, the way it was grounded, the way I'd never gotten to do action stuff like that, ever. I never, and also it had a whole other, it asked for a way of moving. And it just, the whole winter soldier aspect of that character was born for the first time.

And I almost wish that we would have explored more of that. Before he came to the good side. Yeah, yeah, yeah. situation where he's having memory lapses like some of his old memories coming back and he's sort of short-circuiting a little bit. And he wasn't as brainwashed to a machine that he appears in that movie. If you look in the comic books, there is a winter soldier alter ego who's never known that he was someone else, but was functioning. And every time they would zap him and zap him and zap him and zap him and they would get him and desensitize him more and more. It's actually

quite fascinating. You want to go to the back. those intermittent years of when he's just like this assassin that's like kind of like... I thought it would have been interesting to go, you know, what it would have been like for him to wake up after that fall and missing the one arm

doesn't know where he is just like that whole process of him losing the emotions of and becoming this thing. You know, it would have been interesting to see. Hot My Box, the new Four Chiarats My Box, to addle it on how you,

and add on it with a lot of Tollab My Box today and let it on your Pizzah or Meltz, all in howf you, and your job and your your your not end up

your. It's your and your your your menu Pizahat My Box the new, Putsa Hot,

and your Pizahat, I'llolp the day. Okay, it's official. We are very much in the final sprint to election day. And face it, between debates, polling releases, even court appearances. It can feel exhausting, even impossible to keep up with. I'm Brad Milkey. I'm the host of Start Here, the Daily Podcast from ABC News. And every morning, my team and I get you caught up on the day's news in a quick, straightforward way that's easy to understand with just enough context so you can listen, get it, and go on with your day. So, kickstart your morning. Start Smart with Start Here and ABC News, because staying informed shouldn't feel overwhelming. We'll talk more in a few months about Thunderbolts. I've talked to a lot of your co-stars in that one lately, Wyatt, Julia, Harbor. And I know, like, it's well known that, like, the first script of this was way different, it sounds like, from what you eventually shot.

Did you, is that fair to say, like, there was, like, a much different version that we'll never see of Thunderbolts, and are you happy where it ended up? You know, I didn't. there were a couple of reiterations from what I've heard there was a script that we had before the strike and then the one we ended up with and I do feel like we ended up in a better spot 100%. I love working with Drake Shreier. I feel like what he brought to this movie is a whole other tone I think we haven't quite seen yet. It's funny but it's also real and And it just has the right balance of everything.

I love working with him. And I think we could, we only discover that by them actually having more time to work on it. Yeah. Which wouldn't have happened if we had gone a year ago. Who's going to steal this movie? Who should I look out for in this cast? I mean, obviously Florence Pugh is incredible. I mean, she's amazing.

But, and Wyatt Russell is maybe. the funniest person I've ever met. But Julia Lewis Dreyfus, I mean, it's like, I was trying to talk to her, like, I was basically every single moment we weren't shooting, I was walking up to her and been like, Elaine, I mean, you know, she would be like, okay, we're doing a different film now. And I was like, I know, I know, but, you know, and I was like, do you think like, so you've, you know, like Larry David, like, Do you feel like he would like me? You're like, no, no, I don't.

But she, honestly, she's, I mean, enough said. And so many films, like things I've seen her, and I was really more geeking out about her. And she is really great in this. I mean, she's funny and she's cruel. Yeah, everything she stands for as an actor and a human being, I adore that person. caught up with Lizzie Olson recently

asked her about the the Downey announcement at Comic-Con. You were at Comic-Con, so you must have known it was coming. Did you know only when you landed in San Diego that it was happening, or did you get a heads-up that Downey was coming back? So what happens is you get there

and then you get kind of escorted to this little green area, green room area, and that's where you see everyone. And it becomes like this weird high school reunion in a way. And you go, wow, you know, Anthony, you've really aged.

but but um or but you see all these people and then there was like a weird whisper going around and somebody said you know who's here and i was like and i actually i never would have even then i was like judy dead you know but but she's galactus i knew it i don't know i mean it could have been anybody you know but i and i had no idea until um until the that mask came off. And I remember we were standing there and I was like, this is insane. I know this is crazy and I know this is not happening. But it is happening. And it's the only way it could ever happen. Do you know, have you asked Downey or Rousseau's? I mean, you must like have some intel. I have it. No, not at all. Honestly, I mean, I didn't even cross paths with

them. Again, Robert was non-existent. Like, even in the the green room or anywhere. I don't know how they got him in there. I mean, he must have been wearing the costume the entire time because no one had seen him. So, but would you ever do another superhero cross over to the other side, D.C.? Every actor plays Hamlet or Batman at some point. So I don't know if Batman's for me, but like, you've got the chin. But I've got the I mean, never say never. I don't know. There's so many. yeah there's so many characters I told you I always had a soft spot for that riddler

but that one's been done yeah Dana took it well give it five years it'll come back around so when you walked in you told me you saw this I was going to bring it up I talked to Sirsher Ronan the other day and I asked her all the actors working today who do you want to work with Sebastian Stan? I mean yeah

I did I did see that randomly actually even like I have gotten it from a couple of people all at once and then I immediately texted my agent because we have the same agent and I said did you see this because because she said it no it was so it was so nice it was so it was a special moment because I think she's incredible and I'm really excited about her new films but you and I were talking about. about the level of stuff that she's been doing for years and the transition from child to adult actor I mean she's the good standard I mean no she's incredible when are we going to get you back on the stage here it's been a minute since you've done a play I keep trying I keep trying to get Chris Evans look here's the thing if you really want to see with Chris Evans what do you do no I want to do speed the plow with Chris Evans but I would do true west with Chris Evans and here's the thing if anybody's watching this and you want to see Chris Evans and myself on stage I want to just bother him text him, DM him, I don't know, whatever. Make, make posters and send to him. Because I'm

trying to get him. I'm trying to get him. Making a public right now, Chris, we're going. We can do this. But I feel like Speed the Plow could be interesting. Fantastic. I think he would love that one. So I keep, I'm hope, maybe he'll read it. You've literally like texted him like, you've, I'm like, have you read this yet? Yeah, I'm always like, by the way, there's another one that we could do. Maybe making a musical, then he's in. Speed the Plow the musical? Guys and Dolls. I mean, we could do Guys and Dolls. They're doing the movie finally. Rob Marshall's doing it.

This is one of my favorite musicals, Guys and Dolls. I don't know about you. It was an amazing musical. I could see you as a Sky Masterson. Either or Nathan Detroit. They're all great. But I always wanted to be in it when I was in high school and I didn't get cast.

I got cast a little shop of horrors. Bomb 1. I was going to say you weren't Seymour? No. No, I wanted the dentist. Evans. I know. And by the way, they need to do.

little shop of horrors and he needs to be the he would be a he would be an amazing he's told me he has the video of like the his rehearsal or his audition i need to i don't understand why that hasn't been done yet like that that would be a no-brainer to me i mean it's scarlet johansson right it was and taran edgerton green lights kickstarter what do we need to yeah yeah it's yeah have you been up for musicals movie musicals not really i mean i think my singing is uh You know, it's, it's, it's interesting. I mean, it has to be like the right, the right thing.

I was, when I grew up, like, I was obsessed with rent. Yeah. It was a phenomenon. Rent, yeah, yeah. I loved West Side Story. I loved when I was in high school, but I don't think I can sing that anymore. But like, rent, I feel like I could, I could get, you know. I even love hair.

Sure. Hair is an amazing one. That was a really terrible audition. I tried out for that when it was like in the park. didn't get it. Do you still have to audition? Does Sebastian Stan send in tapes? I mean, it's been a minute, but again, never say never.

I don't know. I have no idea. Yeah. I mean, it does seem like looking at, again, the choices you've made. Is it fair to say you've been mostly director-focused? Like, you've really gravitated towards interesting, whether it's the Ridley Scots of the world to the Iron Shimburgs, like the younger, more indie ones.

Like, is that the guiding path? that the best? Yeah, I think I feel like most of the people I've, whose work I've admired have come from director-driven films. I mean, they're all director-driven driven. I mean, they're just different genres and they require different things. But yeah, I think early on I was lucky to work with Jonathan Demi. I had small parts and two things. I had a small part in that Aronovsky, Black Swan film and then the Ridley thing. And I was like, okay, you know what? It doesn't really matter how big the thing is as long as it's with somebody where I feel like they're going to really challenge me. So I've tried to stick to that. So what's the, okay, I guess

search for her shortlist for actors. Who's your short list for directors right now? Who are you really impressed by and dying to, would do anything for right now? I mean, oh my God. That's a long list probably. Well, it's tough because you've got like a hundred and a to I mean um who apparently's going to work with Cruz like see like Tom Cruz like that's gonna be insane I mean I mean I love I could watch all admission impossible movies but I do want to see Tom just like get in there with like a master dramatic director I mean I think that's incredible I think he's incredible I think David Fincher is somebody that that would be interesting I

mean it would be amazing yeah there's Christopher Nolan the Safty brothers yeah Chloe Zow I mean I I am I email her every couple months and no response, but I'm like, I'm just, I'm still here. Check it in. I heard she was going to do this Dracula thing. I was like, I'm just letting you know, it's my country. Um, no response. You have the wrong email. She'll get me. I don't know. Let's see. But no, she, she has. She has responded. But I, I, I, Chloe Zow is unbelievable. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Her doing Dracula is like, what is that even? There's a lot. There's a few. Yeah. Um, and I ruined your Star Wars chances years ago, I guess, to the Luke Skywalker.

With that audition, that never materialized? It seemed like a smart idea at the time, right? I'm glad it's out there in the universe. I think it's good. It will just be a mystery forever. Yeah. Now we know what might have been and... We could make a movie about the actor that everyone says should be in one movie.

You're still in a different man mode. You're in a meta. And like he can't escape that shadow. Right. Had you ever been, growing up, did anybody ever say, oh, you have Mark Hamill vibes? Did that catch you off guard when people started to fancast you as? I mean, I mean, because of Mark Hamill, yeah. Some people were like, oh, you look like Mark Hamill.

You could play young Mark Hamill. And then I think I told you, I was a D-23 one time and we were in a bathroom together at the stall next the stall. And I was like, Mark, how are you? And he was like, huh? fine fine very lovely human being yeah if I've learned anything from you I love that you're you're willing to send the emails make the calls send the texts strike up the conversation at the urinal anything for a job well here's the thing I mean I I remember always hearing this story of like I think it was Ray Leota stalking and hounding

Morris Corsese for the good fellas role and it was like at one point he Morris Corsese was a can had all these people with him security and everything and Liotta like got through all of them

and grabbed him and scared him in a way and was like see and then he cast him but maybe don't do that but when people are like oh I'm a young actor

like what should I be doing or how can I I do feel like it's all about yes it's all about when the lightning strikes you want to be prepared for that lightning to strike

but I think there is something to be aggressive about it in the sense of let people know that this is what you want to do or let let let i think it's okay to speak up and stand up and and now i don't know because i think about it sometimes we didn't have youtube we didn't have right when i was growing up and we were trying to get cast and directors and stuff but now you have these means of putting these movies out there like these little shorts or getting people to see things and you know look at your favorite movie and and and and do that monologue and tape it put it out there I don't know there's

there's a way to kind of go after it is my point we're gonna end with the happy second fuse profoundly random question Sebastian here we're ready this is like this is like our modern day actor studio that's wait until you hear the questions I don't know if you'll agree dogs or cats dogs I think dogs yeah do you own a pet or no you're I've got two you do right now yeah yeah yeah yeah they're uh yeah we'll compare dog photos later um what do you collect um that's a great question what do i collect weirdly i feel like books um i've become quite a compulsive um buyer because i'm like i got okay i got to read that i got and so then they stack up and i got to get through but yeah weirdly books yeah um

what's the wallpaper on your phone let's find out Um, it's a lion. Oh my God. Because I'm a Leo. No, no. Yeah. No, no, no. No further discussion needed.

Um, last actor you were mistaken for? Oh my God. Um, fuck. I think this happened the other day. Um, oh, this is good. Uh, I can't, I can't remember. I, I, I, I, I, it's happened. Okay.

It's definitely happened. Okay. Anthony Mackey. You guys are in. are changeable no it's um fuck it's it's so good i i think at one point i did get devon devonsawa oh sure did you say that yeah that's the name that's right yeah i think so at one point yeah what's the worst noted director has ever given you um not funny not funny

more funny not funny more funny I did get that once and I remember going oh god it's all over I retire thanks thanks everybody I'll be my trail

crying you got over you got there still made it yeah he made it in the spirit of happy second few is an actor that always makes you happy you see them on screen you write up you're happy you're feeling wonderful i mean robin williams comes up all the time it's like there is i don't know i mean

i i find i could always watch any of his movies and just light up yeah yeah a movie that makes you sad a movie that makes me sad um god um weirdly yeah like home alone when the John Williams score kicks in and it is good yeah but but there was um and more in particular home alone too uh and let me tell you why yeah exactly uh it's that moment when he goes to the park and the and the pigeon lady and it's like the little you know piano kicks in and it's dark and it's like cold out and it's the holidays and we all get older and it's like uh no no no And it just keeps piling up and then I cry. Shot-for-shot remake, Sebastian Stan, as the kid, as Kevin McAllister.

I mean, what a wild role. And finally, a food that makes you confused. Food that makes me confused. You don't get it. Why do people eat this? I don't get it. Kinoa. Interesting, really.

Healthy man like you? You don't intake a nice... No, no. Kinoa's, you know what? Kinawa is like semi-healthy. I don't know if it's like, it's getting a... It's got a lot of... Has good public...

It's got a good... Marketing department. Reputation. But quinoa is sort of this interesting thing because it is sort of still a carb. I mean, it's not... It's good for anti-information. Sure.

But it's an interesting one because it sneaks in there. And then you go, sometimes it takes away from the other foods. Right. Because of the texture and these little things, you know. So, yeah. You have any good food tips for those of us trying to get to Bucky Barnes shape for the fall? Lately, I have to tell you, I've been getting more into fruit.

I know it's sugar and people say, I think if you pair it with a protein or something, I think it's good. But there's still value in fruit. I think we dismiss fruit too easily. Berries. I think berries and all the berries. I'm a fan of because they improve your memory,

antioxidants. Yeah. It's like a public service announcement in the end. We spent a lot of important information today. But back to the important subject at hand. We're going to mention one more time. A different man is fantastic. The apprentice is fantastic.

You know, I said it before, dude, like the way you have, like, you know, steered your career, using the best of your opportunities. You're just, you're doing it right. So I hope you enjoy the spoils of the season. Hopefully we'll see each other as it continues. And, man, it's always good to catch up. It's always good to see you, man. and it's exciting to talk with you about these.

So thank you for having me. Thanks, we should get it. We did it. We did it. And so ends another edition of happy, sad, confused. Remember to review, rate, and subscribe to this show on iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm a big podcast person. I'm Daisy Ridley, and I definitely wasn't pressured to do this by Josh.

The Old West is an iconic period of American history, and full of legendary figures whose names still resonate today. Like Jesse James, Billy the Kid, and Butch and Sundance, Sitting Bull, Crazy Horse, and Geronimo, Wyatt Earp, Batmasterson, and Bass Reeves, Buffalo Bill Cody, Wild Bill Hickok, the Texas Rangers, and many more. Hear all their stories on the Legends of the Old West podcast.

We'll take you to Tombstone, Deadwood, and Dodge City, to the plains, mountains, and deserts for battles between the U.S. Army, and Native American warriors to dark corners for the disaster of the Donner Party and shining summits for achievements like the Transcontinental Railroad. We'll go back to the earliest days of explorers and mountain men and head up through notorious Pinkerton agents and gunmen like Tom Horn. Every episode features narrative writing and cinematic music, and there are hundreds of episodes available to binge. I'm Chris Wimmer. Find Legends of the Old West, wherever you're listening now.