Happy Sad Confused - Shawn Levy (DEADPOOL & WOLVERINE Spoiler Special!)

Episode Date: August 5, 2024

SPOILER ALERT! It's time to spill all the secrets of DEADPOOL & WOLVERINE with director and co-writer Shawn Levy! All the cameos and surprises! Plus a look ahead at the final season of STRANGER THINGS and Shawn's STAR WARS movie. Subscribe here⁠ to the new Happy Sad Confused clips channel so you don't miss any of the best bits of Josh's conversations! SUPPORT OUR SPONSORS! BETTERHELP -- Visit BetterHelp.com/HSC today to get 10% off your first month. GREENCHEF -- Go to GreenChef.com/happysadclass for 50% off your first box + 50 FREE Credits with ClassPass! Check out the ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Happy Sad Confused patreon here⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠! We've got discount codes to live events, merch, early access, exclusive episodes, video versions of the podcast, and more! To watch episodes of Happy Sad Confused, subscribe to ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Josh's youtube channel here⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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And we went home. They could think of them like cocaine, cocaine, cocaine, cocaine. And literally wrote the joke about Feigy requesting no cocaine. and it became one of the first jokes we wrote. Prepare your ears, humans. Happy, sad, confused begins now. I'm Josh Horowitz, and today on Happy, Sad, Confused, it is time to talk spoilers about the superhero event of the year.

Deadpool and Wolverine, the surprises, the fakeouts, the rumors, how the hell did they do all of that? We can finally spill, and the man with all the secrets is here. Sean Levy, director, co-writer, and producer of the miracle that is Deadpool and Wolverine. Sean, welcome back to the podcast, man. Yeah, I'm happy to be back, although I don't know that I can possibly match those lofty, very nice words that you've opened with. Congratulations again, I was telling you, but right before we started.

So when we tape this, this is in between kind of like the world premiere and when the public at large is about to enjoy this movie, it was a privilege to see it with that audience in New York. You had Madonna in front of me. I had NSYNC behind me. Dude, that is an all-timer. By the way, I think your seats, I just had Ryan Reynolds and Hugh Jackman near me. I feel like I somehow missed out on the Josh Horowitz seats. No. Those sound even cooler.

What was the highlight for you that night? What was the moment for you? Wow. You know, I think there were a lot because that was definitely night to remember to be at Lincoln Center and like over a thousand people. But we really, we made this movie for audience delight. And we've worked so hard to not only build in surprises, but to then protect them and to not give stuff away in all the trailers and to not open our big fat mouths. And so seeing the way that audience came alive and cheered, cheered like it was a live event or something when we revealed some of those surprises. That was kind of, that's what we work for.

And so feeling that in the room was something I'll never forget. Okay. Are you ready to have a little bit of a therapy session to talk about all the things you haven't been able to talk about for a couple years? Yes. And I feel a little weird that we're talking about it because I've never said some of these words out loud. So this is historic. Okay, here we go. So first of all, we know some of the origins of this. You obviously sign on. You and Ryan, close collaborators, Adam Project, a free guy. You're about to meet with Kevin Feigey as I understand it when Hugh gives you guys a call and says after all this time, I've finally decided to do it. I want back in. Here's my question. Can you say anything about how far along, like what the pitch was going to be to Fygi? Like what was the intent to bet for the Deadpool 3 going to be?

I mean, literally, this was, we had spent, we had spent at least three, four months, myself and Ryan and Wernick and Reese and Zeb Wells, just brainstorming ideas. And we had ideas that were obviously Wade Wilson-centric that involved, the OG characters from the other movies, Dupinder and Blynella and all those beloved kind of de facto family members of Wade's and some kind of various villain ideas and other dimensions and what is Wade going through

and we weren't cracking it. And we literally, we had this weekly Zoom for months with Kevin where we would tell him some ideas and he would tell us some ideas and we just collectively, every week we would hang up that Zoom and feel like, you know what?

That idea feels too big to be authentic Deadpool. This idea feels too small to be worthy of this entrance into the MCU and we weren't cracking it. And our plan, Ryan and I had this big kind of watershed moment where we said to each other, maybe we just got to admit to Kevin,

now's not the moment. Maybe on this week's Zoom, we just admit and we say let's come back to this in a year or two because we can't do this if we don't have an undeniable idea. And that Zoom was going to happen. I think Hugh Jackman knows the date.

I want to say like August 12th, 2022. And on that morning, Hugh called and said, I don't know if you're shooting yet. I don't know if you're writing, but I want him. And so when we did that Zoom with Kevin, he was like, okay, what do we got? We said, well, we got an interesting phone call and everything changed on a dime. The movie instantly had its why.

Right. So Ryan's obviously been talking for years about wanting to do the Deadpool-Wulverine movie. And he's even hinted at sort of like the ideas that he's had in the past. How much of those like very early ideas that he had made it into the film that eventually became Deadpool and Wolverine? Plot-wise, not that much. Plot-wise, the truth is that Ryan, because any of us who've read the comics, any of us who love these movies, know these characters, the chemistry and the kind of oil and water, odd couple, buddy, cop paradigm, that was always going to be baked into this. But plot-wise, I know Ryan had talked about a Roshaman story where the same events are replayed multiple times. I think we've all read that he was pitching like a Sundance indie-scaled movie.

But really the Hugh inclusion got us immediately talking about legacy, Wolverine's legacy, Deadpool's legacy, their shared legacy at Fox. And frankly, the years and the movies that helped build this mountain that we now think of as the MCU. There's all this history. There's all this legacy. And that really is in many ways a foundation. for the MCU. And early on, very quickly, Ryan and I said,

well, let's do more than think about those themes. Why don't we actually make the movie, to some extent, about those themes? And so that became a starting point for story, not just theme. Do you remember when the phrase Marvel Jesus came into the fray? Because that is kind of the guide, that kind of sums up a little bit of what Deadpool's function is in the story. Yeah, I will say that definitely what I do know,

because we've spoken about this, We wrote that line long before there was such a loud conversation about superhero fatigue. And I think that was before quantum mania came out, you know, before Marvels came out. So the fact that it ended up fitting into this narrative and this cultural moment, that was coincidental. But this idea of Wade being given an opportunity to level up into the bigs. and the kind of delusional confidence that Wade would have in declaring himself a Messiah, that just made us laugh and felt very Wade Wilson. And so that was early.

That was an early one. And so was naming the fact that the only rule we were given by five, he is no cocaine, which was I think literally, yeah, no, absolutely in fact. Oh, it is. No, no, literally early on, Kevin was like, look, we want a fully Deadpool, Deadpool movie. The only thing maybe is maybe we don't do all the drug use and the cocaine use with Alan Wade. And we were like, yes, sir, yep, copy that. And we went home.

They could think of them like, cocaine, cocaine, cocaine, cocaine. Literally wrote the joke about Feige requesting no cocaine, and it became one of the first jokes we wrote. So I've heard you guys talk about, obviously Hugh has a lot of skin in this game and wants to, you know, He left the character on such great terms in Logan and as a creative storyteller in his own right. I've heard you guys talk about the 17-minute voice memo he sent you guys. Can you speak about anything that was in that that informed the character and the story? Very much so. I mean, so we had a draft of the script.

We had spent a lot of time honing it and it was finally time to share it with Hugh. And he read it and he left us this voice memo. He sent us this voice memo. And I remember Ryan and I were together working out, which is already a weird image. It's like, why am I even in that room? But we literally connected one of our phones to the Bluetooth speakers, and Hugh just starts talking. We love the script and brothers. I love it, but I'm scratching it.

And he kept finding his way around this idea of why this, Logan. What is it about this Wolverine? what makes this Logan singular. And it really forced us to think about that question and craft an answer. And obviously, since this is airing after people have seen the movie, this whole premise of the worst Wolverine, of this Wolverine having done something truly unforgivable

and the way that that haunts him and makes him feel unworthy of forgiveness or love of any kind, that became so bedrock to this movie. And it's because of the core question that he was asking in ridiculously verbose fashion. Like it literally could have been a 47 second recording, but it was delightful, delightful.

And by the way, we've since learned that there's a button that allows you to listen to things at 1.5 or 2X. Very valuable with Hugh Jackman. Yeah, I got to need that. For any possible sequels, now we know. Right. But that is amazing because, look, I mean, for those that have now seen the movie multiple times, like one of the highlights, many highlights, is Hugh's performance in this.

And just like, he might as well be in a straight drama. He is like, and that contrast is what makes this work, obviously. I'm glad I know you're on your way to a question. I want to make sure. But like, I'm so happy that you name that because when we were writing our greatest mission was to make this worthy of Hugh. We know what it means. We know what the character means.

We knew what the opportunity meant. So we just wrote our asses off to give a Logan that Hugh could dig into. And what he did with this performance is, as you say, it's like it's a performance with the soul and gravitas that I would expect in a drama, but it's also within this comedy. And I think that soulfulness is one of the more subversive aspects of the movie. 100%. So I have a specific kind of plotty question. So you kind of plant this seat early on that I wasn't sure what was going to pay off in a concrete way or not. Was there ever an iteration where the Deadpool kind of dying in Thor's arms moment pays off in a different way? Or is that? Never. Never. Literally it was like, hey, wouldn't that be weird if we saw that? And who knows what it means? Maybe that's a problem for figy to solve later. No, but it did become this runner. Right. Because Ryan, talks a lot and talked a lot and very, very much thinks a lot

about the fact that Deadpool's a fan, right? Deadpool's always been a fan of these heroes. And so this kind of obsession with this snippet where he sees himself being cradled so gently in Thor's hulking arms, just we found it very amusing

to play with. I know you guys have spoken to how like you didn't want to make a movie that was like a trailer for another movie that felt satisfying on its own. And I think you succeeded in that. I'm curious though, you are part of a larger tapestry. Are there anythings in this film that will bear specific fruit that Feige asked you to put in that might, yeah, it's a good question. It's a really good question. Do you know what? During the Volvo Fall Experience event, discover exceptional offers and thoughtful

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while paying your people what they're worth too. So your business can stay unfazed. Learn more at SAP.com slash uncertainty. Not one that I can think of. What did happen was there were a few things where Kevin asked that we be consistent with things that have been set up prior to this movie. So that meant certainly an aesthetic consistency

with the TVA as it's been established on Loki. You see that we got to create very much our own void and extrapolate from the void in Loki. We got to further visually develop Eliath. But I think the TVA lore, TVA aesthetics, those were the main things. But again, we've spoken a lot about the freedom that Kevin gave us, even with things like this concept,

which was Kevin's of an anchor being, right? This idea, it's not a nexus being, It's not a nexus being, it's not quite the same thing, it's new lexicon, its new terminology. And Kevin really understood from the get-go as our fellow producer that this is going to exist in this universe, but it really to be its best version of itself, it has to be its own thing. And we had tremendous freedom. Addle it on howe you, and add on it with a lot of options,

and let it on your dog. Pisa or Meltz, it's all by-kief. And your job, choose two or a mishroop, your your not end-inty. These are your and your your

menu Pizahat MyBox the new, and your Pizahat, and your Pizahat, I'llolp the day. All right, let's start to dig into some of the juiciest stuff. You guys kept a lot of secrets in this well done. Even someone like me, like was surprised by some of the things, some of things I did or didn't see.

So let's get into it. Okay. I guess the big one that everyone by now is probably obsessed over is you got Chris Evans back. And you got Chris Evans back. And we'll talk about this. These are not, what's beautiful is these are not just cameos. These are actual, like, arcs for characters, which is amazing. Amazing. So getting Chris Evans involved, getting Chris Evans as Johnny, as opposed the cap,

talk me through it. Was it an easy yes from Chris, a lot of negotiation? No, I mean, Chris, like all the other surprise castings, were ridiculously fast yeses. I do know the idea of the misdirect was Wernick and Reese. It was one of the first things long before we had Wolverine. they had this idea of what if Chris is there and we expect it to of course be capped but wait what it's Johnny Storm so that was a Wernick and Reese idea early and I'm amazed we all kept the secret

and feeling a moment like that in a crowd is a rare kind of feeling in a movie theater no Chris you know Chris had done a cameo for us in Free Guy Ryan and he have done cameos for each other. And like every other surprise character, it was, we didn't even, long before agents or lawyers were involved, that was Ryan and I sitting writing as we did kind of every day for months and going, hey, what if, what if Chris Evans is there? And it's as Johnny.

And it's just like one of us who pick up our phone and text that other person. And invariably, we got some pretty fast yeses. But I do know that. Ryan definitely sweetened the pot with that instant classic of a final end credit monologue, which Ryan wrote in a ridiculously short amount of time because he is a genius level writer. And Chris read that and was like, yes, please, one condition, that stays in the movie. And so we always knew that that would be the button to the end credits. Oh, that was my next question. That was always going to be end credits.

Always going to be end credits. And that we would assume that Wade is exaggerating, that things. things that Johnny said about Cassandra, but that we then get the glorious pleasure of seeing Chris Evans, rattle off a Ryan Reynolds penned, filthy monologue. It was one of the more fun days on set. I was going to say, did Chris,

it seems like he's having some fun. Like, it must be cathartic rattling. And like very few takes. Well, also, it's like, I feel like this, this Johnny, as iterated, as brought back to life by Chris, is really, it's Chris Evans. Like, it's not the righteous kind of,

cleanliness of cap it's it's johnny with that boston edge that chris evans has like i even feel like there's a weird accent i never quite understood but i was like i'm loving it don't need to understand it yes please more of that um but no chris like that was a chunky monologue and when someone comes in to do a few days you generally want to make it easy yeah but chris was off book i think it took two takes, and we were moving on. All right, let's talk about the iconic trio that returns to aid, Deadpool, and Wolverine, in the void. This section made me so happy, I have to say.

Okay, so we have Electra, Blade, and Gambit. I mean, I could see that taking a lot of different permutations. Was that always the trio? Did you guys go through a lot of different ideas of what that group would be? There were a few other ideas that I'm going to resist naming because who knows what the future hold, there were only maybe two or three other, we call them our legacy heroes. And the whole idea was, it's a movie about legacy. Who are some of the heroes who played critical, foundational roles in this genre, but who never quite got an ending? And that led us early on to Electra.

That led us, I remember Ryan one day saying, I am telling you, people don't even realize how much they miss Wesley Snipes' blade, but they're going to instantly feel it once we give it to them. And that was a little more complicated because I think that was like a new line movie, but it's still Marvel. So I know Electron Blade were early. And then the channing of it, the gambit piece,

I remember bringing that up early. And it didn't quite fit, right? Because if we're doing Legacy Heroes, here's a character who never got to begin, who never got in the game. And that instantly got us excited as a writing team because you could allow Gambit to zig when everyone else was zagging.

So people are talking about their contributions and their history and Gambit's like, well, I never really started. And I was one of like 70 directors who years ago met with Channing about directing his would-be Gambit movie at Fox. And it never quite happened, but I knew. And Ryan knew, because again,

And Channing also showed up for us on Free Guy. We knew that this character lives in Chan in such a deep way. And I will tell you, I've never in my whole career, seen a performer more grateful and joyous to be playing a part than Channing when he played Gambit. I think no character made me laugh more than his personification of Gambo. And it toes the line of like somehow being a badass, but also being totally absurd. And, like, by the way, that's a testament to Channing because I can't name another actor, including, like, full-on movie stars like Ryan and Hugh, who could somehow be so absurd with the accent, but also so deeply attractive. It speaks to just the innate, just kind of super heroic desirability of Channing Tatum that he manages to pull it off at both ends of the spectrum. Like, the theory that Ryan had about Wesley is true.

There is such a collective love for him in that character, and it is really the bones of the Marvel universe to take back to Blade, obviously. Getting him in that costume on that set, he has such a connection with that character. He's a passionate, interesting dude. What was he like, like, did he have specific things he wanted to do with the character,

or was he kind of open to whatever you guys came up with? He was really, I have to say, everybody, everybody came ready to play. And so I remember there being a few things in the choreography where Wes would be like, that's not played. We're like, okay, you know what? You're played so okay. You know what?

You know him better than we know him, and you lived him for years. But no, he really, you could feel the tempo in those scenes. You feel the rhythm of how we wrote that scene. It really bounces around. And those sequences only work if there's flow. And so Wesley came in with this gamer spirit, and everyone understood what we're doing,

which is it's not about anyone individual. This scene has to be about flow state. And then during the action, same thing. And Wesley, like Channing and Jan and Daphne Keene, who plays X-23, they all really came in with humility and gratitude to be back, and they really came to play. Well, talk about some of the other rumors that didn't turn out to be the case, etc. But one I want to hit on since we're talking about Jennifer and Electra,

is Affleck, because Affleck was strongly rumored to be in this film. There were reports that he was on set. Was he on set? And was there an iteration where he was going to play Daredevil? Well, in my mind, Affleck will always be Daredevil. No disrespect to any other versions that exist or may ever exist. No, he was never on set. And yet he gave us the character and the real-life backstory

certainly gave us one of the biggest laughs that we could ever. get as far as the writing and a mention of Daredevil given that it's Jen Garner playing Elektra. Yeah, her delivery of it's fine is just chef's kiss. Did she, you guys vet that with Ben? No, we vetted it with Jen. Okay. Trust in her judgment. Yeah. I later spoke to Ben because, as you know, the end credits have this tribute reel to the legacy. of Fox Marvel movies. And so that gave us the occasion to speak to everyone because we needed everyone's and we wanted everyone's permission.

So, no, that joke was not as far as I know vetted by Ben, but definitely, you know, we made clear to Jen as we made clear to everyone. And as Figey learned when he asked us, no cocaine, everything is on the table in Deadpool. Speaking of which, I think there was like only one line. I actually, I gasped that. and it was divorce divorce it was the Hugh divorce line um wow uh what's the conversation that goes into

the Hugh Jackman meta divorce line I'm trying the thing of the sequence some things we wrote some things came to us when we shot and I remember we were filming that scene with Wolverine and nice pool and dog pool on the hillside and Ryan was like I have an idea Hugh can I pitch you something and Hugh laughed so hard. And again, it was part of this, it was part of this, I guess, like entry point understanding that if we're going to make a Deadpool movie, the audacity has to flow through its veins.

It's part of the DNA. And so even when it's taking the piss out of oneself and one's own real life, Hugh was down for that. Amazing. That's trust. That's love and trust. Yeah, well, that really, by the way, that would be a good subtitle for, if I ever wrote about the making of this movie, love and trust would be the title. All right.

Let's start to talk about some of the variants, the different versions that we get at both Wolverine and Deadpool. So Wolverine, let's see, but I've only seen it once by now. I'll see it again, of course, but we have Patch, we have Old Man Logan. We've got the guy being crucified. We have the glam rock version. I think I've got, of course, comic accurate short guy. Short King, please.

Sorry. Respect must be paid. Sorry. Yeah, I mean, that was a lot of fun. And, I mean, it's maybe interesting to people, especially those who work in any kind of creative or collaborative field. You know, when you're coming up with a sequence like that where you're announcing, okay, this is going to be a montage of Logan variance and a search for the right one, I kind of go into every movie, maybe this one more than any, kind of announcing that I don't have all the answers. Ryan doesn't have all the answers. Fidey doesn't have all the answers.

And so really, as we were developing that sequence, we invited everybody to pitch ideas. So that meant the Marvel visual development department. That meant storyboard artists, costume designers. And so we got this grab bag of suggestions and ended up choosing the John Byrne kind of old school Woolby's in there too. We got this grab bag of Wolverine variants that felt so satisfying and really was the brainchild of a big group collaboration.

And that is the fun to me of making movies is you just reap the benefit of these collaborations. Did any almost make the cut? What was like number six or seven on the list? Number six and seven was an actual Wolverine. We really, really wanted an actual Wolverine, the animal, and that he would mall Deadpool, but we came up with that idea too late to do a convincing

digital Wolverine. So that one's in my back pocket. Should I need one for any sequels? The one variant we see that is not played by Hugh is played by the great Henry Cavill. The Cavalryne. By the way, it bummed me out at the premiere

because no one even heard that line because they were cheering so loud when they see him turn around. I'll be frank. I did not hear it. If you look at the end credits, the Cavalryin, Henry Cavill. So we've always called them the Cavalry.

That's another example where Ryan and I are sitting there writing. We literally pass the laptop back and forth between us. And I feel like maybe all of that stuff had gone down with DC early on during the writing. And we were like, we got to do this. We want to see Cavill as the Cavalry. And so another text, another quick yes, boom, he was in. He enjoyed that day. He leaned right in.

He did enjoy that day. Although I remember he was so committed. I mean, he was jacked up and he had that disgusting cigar in his mouth for hours. And he was fully in it. I think he might have gotten sick to his stomach if memory serves. It was a combination of like oxygenated muscles, no actual oxygen going up into his nose. But he was a trooper and he was fabulous. No other actors considered, I mean, there was Radcliffe rumors, obviously over the years.

Yeah, I think there was due grace Scott rumors. No, we, the truth is when you do a movie that plays with variance in multiversal conceits, you need to stay disciplined. You need stay disciplined if you're going to be asking the audience to invest and care. And we knew that the most important thing was we really wanted the audience to invest and care about Wade and Logan's journey. So we tried to stay judicious with the number of variants and the length of that model. touch. Any of the others that you can comment on, McConaughey. Yeah, I mean, for a long,

long time, Ryan in early cuts was the voice of Cowboy Pool. And he did the greatest Cowboy Pool. And I implored him to let us use his voice as Cowboy Pool. And I feel like eventually he was like, okay, fine, we'll stick with my voice unless we can get someone like Matthew McConaughey. Cut two. Boop, bo, bo, bo, bo. Yes. Literally, like, days later, Matthew sent us that recording. It was so good, so immediately.

It dropped in like butter. And I was like, Ryan, you're fired his cowboy pool. McConaughey, you're in. Your collective Rolodex powers are just too great, guys. I know. It really is, yeah, this movie was cast by Rolodex, by cell phone contacts. You can get protein at home. or a protein latte at Tim's.

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What do we mean by almost? Well, you can't get a well-groom lawn delivered, but you can get a chicken parmesan delivered. A cabana? That's a no, but a banana. That's a yes. A nice tan, sorry, nope. But a box fan. Happily, yes. A day of sunshine? No. A box of fine wines? Yes. Uber Eats can definitely get you that. Get almost, almost anything delivered with Uber Eats. Order now. Alcohol and select markets. Product availability may vary by Regency app for details. All right, let's deal with the biggest ongoing rumor that you had to field for a long, long time, the Taylor Swift of it all. What's the deal? Was there anything ever to it? It really just came. You'll have to ask the internet. I really, this one has really baffled me, the fuel, the kind of,

self-fueling frenzy of social media. I guess, obviously, Taylor is a good friend of Ryan and Blake's. As people know, I've socialized with Taylor as well and was in her All Too Well video. And I don't really know where it came from, the whole Dazzler-Taylor thing. But I'm so happy that I don't have to dodge these questions anymore. Now, is there ever any temptation once that's taken off to almost instead of deny it, like, if that's what they want to see almost like talk to Taylor and like do you want to be dinosaur or is that the wrong lesson to take from it just to I mean you make I won't digress

but like you're touching on a really key question it's one that has come up a lot on stranger things came up a lot on this movie is how much do you listen to culture and then how much do you react and adhere to what the people think they want right and as I was saying And, you know, this movie, Ryan and I had to be our own disciplinarians because it's our first time in the MCU. And so you have a nice budget and you have access to so much lore and legacy and characters. And probably casting of anyone's wildest dreams. But if you go too crazy with that, it becomes a little bit hard to invest in on a character and root, rootable, rooting interest basis. So, no, we heard the rumors.

It was never really a thing. So just for the official record Even when that all happened You never sit down with Ryan and Taylor And be like, should we do this? That is correct. That never happened. Okay, fair enough.

But in how you and your and your side of your general or a drink or a shirot or your your and your your

menu Pizzahat My Box the new with your your Pizzahat O'Tolpil today Pizzahat Let me run through

just I'll put a button on all the like surprises by just running through some other rumors that came and clearly didn't come to pass Patrick Stewart

ever serious considered? Never even discussed. Okay. And studied, studied by Emma Corrin big time because the Cassandra siblinghood to Professor X is really interesting to us. But no, never discussed, never, never considered. Obviously, we see a bunch of the OG kind of X-Men that came in, also in first class too, but like Gene Gray, Cyclops, Storm. I know. I read a lot about Storm. I read a lot about and a Pac-Win coming back. I mean, I read everything. The Internet has been a delightful smoke screen for the truth.

No, really, Pyrot was in early. Sabretooth, Tyler Mainz, Sabretooth was in early. No, Leiave ever considered? Never thought about it. No, although Leav is awesome, and he's in my limited series, The Perfect Couple, which is on in September on Netflix. Thank you for the organic plug. I've seen it, and I love the opening by, we can't talk about.

Anyway. Okay, we don't talk about it. about that. No, never, Leav, always Tyler. And I think that it was because Zeb Welles, one of our fellow writers, he, from his, from his youth, was this thick fan of Tyler Main's savertooth. So he wrote that in an early draft of the script and it stuck. I do love you talked about like those end credits. And it does, you're like, by the end, you're like, oh, wow, this was kind of like a not so secret love letter to the Fox era. Even seeing like the Fantastic Four film, which was much maligned, you know, with Michael B. and that whole.

crew. It's quite a legacy, right? I have to say editing that Fox legacy real was as gratifying to all of us as the movie itself. Yeah. Ever, ever consider making a call, a text to Michael B or any of them? To be in the movie more than that clip. No, we, we knew early on that Chris Evans was going to be our Johnny Storm. Got it. You did mention another interview. You guys wanted Jordan Peel. What was that about? Was there a specific idea you had for Jordan? What did you want him to do? Early on, we always knew that we were going to create or or use a character from the TVA. Although now that I think about it, no, I think we once had a villain idea in an early version. I think this was even maybe pre-hew. But at various points, we just,

we're just fans of Jordan Peel. He's just cool. He's cool. And he's talented. He's talented. of different things. And, you know, a lot of casting for me and for Ryan is, who do I want to hang out with and work with? And Jordan Peel is just one of those guys who is so good and so unique. And so I think at various points, we had him in mind for a villain and then for kind of like a high-ranking TVA bureaucrat villain sort of related to Mr. Paradox, the McFadion ends up playing. So no, that was kind of just a pie in the sky idea that never came for fruition. But again, anything's possible in the future, although I think he's pretty busy building an empire. Oh, my God. Yeah, Mephisto's been mentioned. That's keeps coming up throughout

the MCU the last few years. Sounds like that was one of the ones you guys were considering. I remember, I don't remember if that was a Jordan character, but I do remember in some early versions. And again, we, you know, our offices are littered with ripped up beat sheets that didn't quite feel right. And I know that Mephisto was in some of those. Did you have any favorite alt titles for the film? I got to think you went through every filthy, wonderful permutation of what this could be. I remember for a while. When we were shooting, it was definitely just called Deadpool 3.

Early on, I know we toyed with the idea of Deadpool and friend. And I remember debates about whether we should put an S and pluralize it or not. But then ultimately, we kind of realized, wait, this movie is in many ways. It's a Deadpool movie, but it's a Wolverine tribute. you. It is a love letter to Hugh Jackman and to the singularity of Hughes Wolverine. And so the title just sort of became undeniable. Talking about Hugh again and that iconic characterization, kudos to you guys for making the original costume we'd never seen, like, actually badass. Because like, it's one thing.

A lot of hell from Marvel. Can I tell you, Josh? They have an army of artists and specialists who's sole job is helping figure out costume design, first on paper, then in three-dimensional, buildable, navigable, wearable reality. Getting the yellow and blue right took so many versions. And now it feels undeniable and obvious, but wow, that took a lot of work. And when the cow comes on a whole other level, and it's like, why is this working? This should be so lame, but it's so fucking awesome. This is something that we talk about. Hugh and I have talked a lot about how the mask is such a big swing. It shouldn't work.

Like you would think it's a little too much. Man, as soon as he put that thing on, I couldn't shoot it enough. I studied its angles. I loved it in profile. I loved it in three quarter. I love him in the suit. And Hugh felt, and he's described kind of just feeling his most Wolverine. when that calla was on.

Is that shot of them, I'm not the biggest expert, I'm going to cop to it from the comics. Is them coming out of the bus, that's slow-mo? Is that pulled out of a comic panel? Is that a specific thing? No, it's not.

But it is majorly inspired by our storyboard team. That single shot action sequence in the third act against the core, that took eight, nine months of prep, because that's real. Those are dozens, of stuntmen doing choreographed, very specific moves with no coverage. So that's a terrifying

proposition, but it became like our kind of obsession. That panel was drawn by one of the storyboard artists just looking like badass is coming out of that back window. And so we always wanted to bring that panel to life. And shortly, I think after you post this conversation, I think that panel's going to end up on my social media. Is that sequence that you talked about, I think a previs you showed Hugh that he got kind of emotional and stoked about. Is that the one you're talking about? Yeah, it was actually, so generally on movies like this, you'll do storyboards. Yeah.

Then it'll evolve to pre-vis, which is moving storyboards. Then you go to stunt biz. And that's usually where you have your proof of concept, where you realize, can real human bodies do this thing that we drew? And the stunt biz of that oner is what I showed you on a plane and the glee and surprise and sheer joy that he took from it, that was my first indication of, oh, if we can figure out how to do this, this is going to make audiences really happy.

We don't have much time left, but I want to talk a little music because the soundtrack is amazing and the way you utilize it is amazing. Getting Madonna on board is tough and, like a prayer, is just an all-timer, and it works so well. I think you said something to the fact that, like, she actually had a note about how to use it in the film. Yeah, and I don't, I, I'm, there's something, I might take to the grave.

But I do, I remember, I mean, Ryan and I went to Madonna's house and we were there for a couple of hours. And we showed her chunks of the movie and we ended up talking about the character and the franchise. And then we finally started talking music. And she was like, this works, this works. But you know what? This one section with the choir, I would consider this.

And it was such a genius level note that we promptly went back, redid it, and her note made the use of like a prayer so much more powerful. Was there ever, I mean, you got Hugh Jackman, do you ever consider a full-on musical performance in this film? Was there an iteration of that? No, there never was, and now I regret it. Got more movies than you.

Let's not. Let's hope so. Yeah. When you, so look, we've been talking a lot of the nuts and bolts and less about the themes just because of the nature of this is kind of spoilery. But like, when you look at this, you know, in totality, it's kind of a miracle to get this thing to work. I mean, as you well know, right? And we talked about the tones that you were kind of balancing here.

What do you take the most pride in seeing it all come together? Whether to sequence of performance, well, you know. I am really, really proud of and in love with Hughes performance because the bar is high. Yeah. You know, Hugh's legacy as Wolverine is exceptional, and Logan in particular is really a masterpiece of a movie. And you can see that my and our reverence for that movie is baked into this movie.

So writing and directing Hugh to a performance that shows depths and colors of Logan that he hasn't done before, that's a great pride for all of us who made the movie. And I think other than that, it's really, it's really the combination of tone. We really, Ryan and I wrote the character movie first. The funny never worried us. You know, the funny gets a lot of oxygen on Deadpool movies, but we knew the opportunity

of this pairing. Yes, it's historic that Deadpool's in the MCU. Yes, it's historic that it's the first R-rated MCU movie. But the privilege as a co-writer, as a producer, and as a director of being the, the first lucky son of a bitch who gets to build a whole story around this iconic duo. That was an opportunity that I didn't underestimate and wanted to do right by that privilege and really have devoted the last several years to doing just that. Whether you end up directing an Avengers movie or not,

do you imagine Deadpool can seamlessly fit into an Avengers movie? Can a character break the fourth wall? in an Avengers movie? That's a great question. I'll just say this. I don't think Deadpool fits anywhere seamlessly. And that's why we love Deadpool. Right.

So anything's possible, but I do know that we were really devoted to protecting the authentic tone of this character, and he affects things around him by virtue of his worldview and his unique connection to the audience. So I'm intrigued at the, the thought. But it won't be seamless. I think it'll be audacious and therefore very satisfying

if it ever happens. I know you've said basically, I mean, you and Fagie are talking still and hopefully something else will happen. And it seems safe to say based on the response to this, everyone wants to work together some more. In your mind, I'm not expecting you to say what it is, but do you have the project or character you want to do next in the MCU? I have some ideas. I have some ideas. I'm not being shy about those ideas. And, you know, know, I came to this in an organic way because Ryan and I have this really good thing going. And I discovered an equally amazing thing with Kevin and the team at Marvel. So I don't think we're done with each other quite yet.

Two last quick things just off the Marvel front. Star Wars is being written. Your Star Wars film, amazing. Are you writing with actors in mind? Oh, wow. So you're asking the right questions. You're asking the right questions. Sort of, yes.

People, maybe you work fast. Please don't ask a follow up. Tell me this, what is, what is Star Wars to you? Is Star Wars the Skywalker's? Is it the Force? Is it like what do you love about Star Wars? I'll say that the experience of crafting this story has forced me to think about that question

because there's only so many times that Star Wars movies, can revisit the same section of the timeline. And so it's really forced me, because I don't want to do a Star Wars movie that is redundant to others, nor am I interested in doing one that has to serve another movie.

I really wanted to craft something that felt organic to me, both in tone and characters. So I think that there is, there's certainly the force and a connection to something bigger than our individual selves, the way that that can make us powerful, those themes combined with visual delight and

wishful fulfillment, that's Star Wars to me. Okay, we'll end with a little tease on Stranger Things, which is this has been a long shoot. This is a long one. You guys are going out big. Well, here's the thing. If season five was small, we'd are wrapped months ago. So you haven't directed your episodes, I take it yet. That's next on the docket.

Correct. Next week. Oh, wow, next week. So you're deep in. That's where the head's really at. Let's be real. No, my head is really, I am really, really trying to savor this moment because this dead for Wolverine moment is I'm old enough and smart enough finally to know this is a once

and a lifetime moment. And then it'll be Monday. Yeah. And then it'll be next week and I'll be on set directing Stranger Things 5 and working alongside the brothers and that's my other happy place. And what are you seeing in the footage and cuts you've seen so far of the performance is what are you being moved by? What are you excited by?

I mean, part of the joy of this is going to be see those kids that we obviously grew up with and now they're young adults. That's crazy to just see the past of the time. The deepening of their abilities, the deepening of their maturity. And I think above all, a collective sense, and this is baked into so many scenes,

a collective sense that this is it. This is goodbye. And so let's leave it all on the field. That's what I'm seeing in season five. Excellent. Well, I think you left it all out on the field on this one, too, this company that you created. Congratulations. And honestly, this is like, I mean, if there's ever been a great audience movie and a tribute to what Hughes done, what the Fox films were, and just to see it all come together in this way, man, a new achievement unlocked and a great career already. Enjoy the moment. I've been talking with you a long time. And the work that I'm getting a chance to do is the kind of work I dreamed about when you and I. I started talking over a decade ago. So it's always good to chat.

Thanks, man. Thanks for the time. Thanks for the therapy session for both of us. We got it out. Thank you. I should be paying you. And so ends another edition of happy, sad, confused. Remember to review, rate, and subscribe to this show on iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts.

I'm a big podcast person. I'm Daisy Ridley, and I definitely wasn't pressure to do this by Josh. The Old West is an iconic period of American history and full of legendary figures whose names still resonate today. Like Jesse James, Billy the Kid, and Butch and Sundance, Sitting Bull, Crazy Horse, and Geronimo, Wyatt Earp, Batmasterson, and Bass Reeves, Buffalo Bill Cody, Wild Bill Hickok, the Texas Rangers, and many more. Hear all their stories on The Legends of the Old West podcast. We'll take you to Tombstone, Deadwood, and Dodge City, to the plains, mountains, and deserts for battles between the U.S. Army and Native American warriors, to dark corners for the disaster of the Donner Party, and shining summits for achievements like the Transcontinental Railroad. We'll go back to the earliest days of explorers and mountain men and head up through notorious Pinkerton agents and gunmen like Tom Horn.

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