Happy Sad Confused - Sophie Thatcher

Episode Date: June 8, 2026

We'd say Sophie Thatcher is the future but she's here dominating right now. Bursting onto the scene in YELLOWJACKETS, raising her game with the one-two punch of HERETIC and COMPANION, Sophie is poised for even more success. She joins Josh to talk about it all, including her chronically online childhood, her passion for music and fanfic, and more. SUPPORT THE SHOW BY SUPPORTING OUR SPONSORS! Rula -- Rula patients typically pay $15 per session when using insurance. Connect with quality therapists and mental health experts who specialize in you at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.rula.com/happy⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ #rulapod Quince -- Go to ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Quince.com/HAPPYSAD ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠for free shipping and 365-day returns. Limited Time Offer–Get Huel today with my exclusive offer of 15% OFF online with my code happy15 at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠http://huel.com/happy15.⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ New Customers Only. Thank you to Huel for partnering and supporting our show! UPCOMING EVENTS! 6/16 -- Matt Smith in NY -- ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Tickets here⁠ 6/22 -- Millie Bobby Brown -- Tickets here Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

You know, when I was younger, I was trying to be older. And now I'm kind of just like, I can be my age because I'm not ashamed of my age. It was always, it was the shame within being young and feeling like I'd live so many lives. I was like, no, like you don't see like, I'm 12, but like I've lived another life before. Prepare your ears, humans. Happy, sad, confused begins now. Hey, guys, it's Josh. Welcome to another edition of Happy, Sad, Confused.

Today, one of the best young actors working today. It's Sophie Thatcher, Yellow Jackets, her new film with Nicholas Reffin, and so much more. Thanks, guys, as always, for checking out the podcast. Remember to hit that subscribe button on YouTube, on Spotify. However you're doing it, you know what to do. Today's main event, as I said, Sophie Thatcher, someone that's been absolutely killing it in recent years, companion, heretic, I mentioned in Yellow Jackets, and a very bright future for her. This is a really fun conversation.

Before we get to Sophie, though, always. a lot of things going on in the happy, say, confused universe, and you know what to do. You have to be a Patreon member to get the early access, patreon.com slash happy, say I confused. You get discount codes, get an autographed merch, got bonus materials, so much cool stuff. We do have some cool live events coming up in June at the 9th 2nd Street,

Y. June 16th, Matt Smith and I are chatting about House of the Dragon and Dr. Who, and you know I'm going to ask him Star Wars questions. He's in the next Star Wars movie. That's going to be a fun one tickets are on sale for that. And tickets are now on sale for Millie Bobby Brown. I've been hinting at this for a while. June 24th, Millie Bobby Brown talking about the new Enoa Holmes film.

And we might talk about that Stranger Things show a little bit. She's never done the podcast, crazily enough. So I'm really excited about this. I know this one's going to sell very well. So good thing to try and get your tickets early for that one, June 24th, Millie Bobby Brown. All the information, as always, is in the bio, but also discount codes, as I said, are on the Patreon. on. Okay, Sophie Thatcher. What a cool, young, talented actor. She's been on my radar for a few years. I'm sure she's been on all of our radars. Yellow Jackers was kind of the show that really made her

pop, I think, onto all our radars. But to see what she's been doing lately, especially in the horror space, as I said, that one-two punch last year, Heretic and Companion. And she's just like working with the coolest filmmaker. She just premiered her new film, Her Private Hell in Cannes with Nicholas Winding Refen. That's coming out later this summer. She's about to work with Jennifer Kent, who did the Babaduke. She's got great taste. This is a fun conversation because as much as it's about her career, it's also just about

her awesome taste in music and film and games. I feel like I learned so much from her today. I had a blast talking to her, and I know you're going to have a blast listening to her. Here's me and Sophie. Enjoy. Sophie, we're here. Should we do this? Here, let's do it.

This is how modern friendships are born in a brightly lit podcast studio. And it shut? Yeah, we're probably, we're just wondering that this podcast studio that might be moving. We're not sure. We're not sure yet. We'll figure it out. It's good to meet you. I've been such a fan of yours.

Thank you for taking the time. You're killing it lately. It's been, you're on a nice little run. I'm happy to talk to you before you start to be more discerning and not talk to people like me. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. How's the summer treating you? I've seen you out and about. You did the can thing.

We're going to talk about the Nick Reffen experience. Yes. Yeah. I imagine you finished yellow jacket. No, no, no, no, no. Okay. We got two months left of that. Okay.

Two or three months left of that. And it's just been very back and forth. Anytime I have a break with that, because, you know, obviously they have the present-day cast. And that it's like a week of shootings. So I'll have these weeks off. And it's really confusing, like being. attached to something for so many years and having all this time off and trying to navigate a life outside of that while it's also remaining in that.

Totally. You want to, so it's part of your brain. Oh, raise is still there. And it's living right there. But we're almost done and it's the last season. And I mean, I'm not even, I'm, I think I'm, I think I'm the youngest on the show now. But I can't. It's hard playing like an 18.

year old version of yourself because I was 18 when I started the pilot. You're stunted. You're just stuck there. You can't. Oh, for sure. No, it's like permanent being stunted and people like to say you like stop growing when you get famous. Right. But I feel like this show, not that I stopped growing, but like it's interesting staying in that headspace and staying as a teenager as I'm trying to navigate my 20s and navigate all these other problems.

all these other projects as well. And I heard you, I heard you in another interview talking about how like when you were young, you were actually like kind of the opposite. You were passing for older like when you were like really young. So you've always been in a weird like time space continuum. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, when I was younger, I was just obsessed with, it was like an act. It was something I wanted to portray and see if I could pull off how like old I could be.

when I was 12, I was like, let's aim for 18. And I would know, I did auditions where they asked, like, what university I was at. And I was like, I'm 13. I'm watching Garfield. I'm watching cartoons. It was just like always putting on a different character. Yeah. Well, that served you well.

Yeah. Bouncing around a bit. So we're talking summer. So you're still in the middle. You're the thick of that. You're in New York. You're just telling me some stuff you're up to in New York. But I do want to talk about the Nick Reffin experience, which was, which was Cannes.

I don't know if that was that your first can. That was, yeah, yeah, yeah, it was my first can. It was surreal. It was exhausting. I would get like three hours of sleep every night. And not even just from like going out. It was like all of these events that would start at like 11 or 12. Yeah, I would have glam at six or seven in the morning.

And I was like, how do people feel good and look good throughout this? I got like a free IV shot. Oh. And I've never done that before. And I was like, I've never felt so L.A. in my life. I was like, this is evil, but I love it. And I think it's a hoax as well. So you've now gone full L.A.

You've done the IV. It's not actually just moved. Right now to say, just the... I just moved out of L.A. I spent three years there. I was in Silver Lake and then I was in Nichols Canyon. Oh. Wait, where's home now?

I just bought some place upstate New York. Nice. So it's really nice to be here. in this city and like spend time back and forth because you truly get best of both worlds. I have a country home and then I can come here. But L.A., I find it's interesting

because I was there last week and I think this is a very common feeling but as soon as you move out of a place, I mean, you want what you can't have, but I went back and I was just working on music and I was like, God damn, it's nice here. Nostalgia for your home. Nostalgia like, I left like two weeks ago.

But that's just life. You're going to spend plenty of time there, whether you want to or not. And it was also, I can't drive. So it was a thing where. Sophie, I can't drive. I never weren't to drive. And I'm twice your age. So.

Yeah. You live here in this city. Born and raised, New Yorker, never had to. That is the perfect excuse. I don't have the same excuses. You're fine. I'm like, I was a child actor. I have no real skills.

Yeah, I know. I am incompetent. But you can pretend to do anything. More important than actually doing anything is pretending. Were you drive, have you ever taken a driving like lessons? Nothing. No interest. And I think the more I wait, the more built up anxiety.

So. I can attest to this. I'm the ghost of Christmas future, Sophie. Yes. That's true. So next week. I have a couple of days off of yellow jazz. And I'm going to get in my, I have a, I just got a car with my partner and got a Subaru, which is the most like upstate.

For really, you've gone from 25 to 40 overnight, basically. Like, I'm shaded. So we're going to drive around that Subaru and who knows, in the mountains. Lovely. Yeah, maybe. You crack the coat. Okay, so wait, so step back to can because like we all have those images in our mind if we've grown up watching the coverage, et cetera. I've been lucky enough to go a couple times on the flip side.

Obviously, different kind of experience than you had. But like the press conferences are insane, walking up those steps. Yeah. Yeah. All scary. No, I mean, all good, scary. Yeah. It was raining for our premiere as we were going up the steps and it felt so goddamn epic.

Rihanna was playing and they just only played rain songs So it was under my own And I was like looking back Trying to be like Mewing And it's just so funny

I was like This isn't real life And I just kind of had that in my head Where I was like this Cherish this This isn't real life What else? What are some other rain songs?

No because they played all the classics It's rain. It's rain. Did they? Hallelujah. That's always playing in your head though. That's just, that's the... Yeah, no, I'm like, it's already there.

But it was just like, I was like, I'm at Ken and they're doing this. This is insane. And to be there with Nick. And with Nick where he was like, ugh. And we all, we have to follow him. What was he doing? He was doing the like, some kind of pose that we all kept following. And I was like halfway committing and I saw him the photos that I wish I fully committed.

Because I was still trying to like, like do you're posing it's hard it's hard it's a hard life um I haven't had since I wasn't there I haven't seen the film it sounds bananas but I always expect this movies to be bananas in the best possible way yeah it's always you know it's gonna divide people that's what you want in a Nick Reffin movie come on let's do it but you spoke and glowingly about like the collaboration this is her private hell which is coming out later this summer we should say that you loved like the collaborative nature that it really like was a top-tier experience

It really was so collaborative and I've never had that and I feel like it really raised the bar for me for working with filmmakers because it made me feel like an actual artist and not just, you know, some kind of part of the machine to get it going to sell things. It felt like even watching it, I felt like we were making it for ourselves. And I don't mean for that to be like separating people, but. It lies so specifically within my taste, within, you know, 70s Italian horror and everything's so heightened. And it's a very specific tone that I think a lot of people won't understand that don't come from that. The reference points that can connect with.

Yeah, which is like in it of itself is, that's its own thing. Yeah. It's completely separate and I understand not getting that. Yeah. But to me, I'm like, God, it hits some kind of sweet spot and watching it. For me, it really was watching this,

score. Pino Dinajia, we had been talking on set for so long. We would play the Don't Look Now soundtrack, Dolores song. And it's just the piano part. And then it goes into this beautiful orchestration. And we'd play that every day to get into character. And then he would play the Brian D. Palm Address to Kill soundtrack, which is just like, God, like. It's like pretty operatic or what is it? It's very operatic. It's very, yeah, yeah. It's very, it's like soapy. It's very. Right.

I totally, I remember it now. But beautiful. It's like works so perfectly because it's so in purpose. Yeah. So we would listen to that every day. And it was just kind of a tone that we had set by just listening to it because music is everything. And I think because me and Nick both believe that music is everything, that's why we got along.

Yeah. And that's how we, like, our first meetings were just talking about like punk music and talking about. I mean, when he texts me, it's just like sending me like rock videos and being like, this video, like, they're so cool. It's all just like videos of like David Bowie or. He's speaking your language. This is the kind of references. It is and it doesn't even, yeah, no, and it doesn't have to be, I feel like we had a very good understanding of each other through references and I know that references can feel sometimes shallow but it didn't for me it felt like it was all encompassing and like taking into a whole new world yeah it's funny you mentioned

diploma I grew up with De Palma and like he feels like kind of an air to to that aesthetic that kind of like again taking big swings taking big swings where it's like but all like very and it's not just purely aesthetically driven it's like there's real emotion personality behind it that I think people sometimes dismiss through this style and the tone. Yeah, the style can overwhelm their senses. The style overwhelms the senses and then you're just taking in the aesthetics and you're not. Right. It's like a it's a visceral experience for sure, which is why it's like to have a film like this now, God, imagining people watching on their phones is really depressing.

It's like, no, I mean, no, you can't. Yeah. You just can't do it. We'll be right back with more happy, say, confused. How can working at your local Tims take you further? Sure, you can level up your teamwork skills. You also get a chance to receive a Tim Horton's scholarship award. Ready for what's next?

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every Thursday night at 8 p.m. Eastern on YouTube.com slash the Glass Cannon with the podcast version dropping the next day. See what everybody's talking about and join us in the dark. So I got to say, this reaches the broader point I was going to bring up early on is as I started to like, I mean, I have been following your career, but I was reading more and more about you, I was a little intimidated that I feel like you're half my age and you have like twice as good taste as me.

Like you are, you really, you've got, you've, I don't know where the influences came from. I kind of want to like get a sense of like, I know you have some older siblings. I don't know if you kind of found your own path. Like how did you develop the aesthetics that you were drawn to? Like what, how did we get here, Sophie, in a nutshell? YouTube, growing up in the internet.

Yeah. You say you were chronically online, but every kid's chronically online. No, but I was, it was like locked myself in the basement after school. It's just like on the computer for hours and hours and hours. Just trying to research and I'm still like that. But I try to like view it in like a positive sense where it's like even if I'm on YouTube or on discogs or band camp, trying to search for music, it's like I'm searching for music to inspire. me and to show other people like I'm very against gatekeeping.

Right. I think that's, hey, it's just not, I think if something is interesting, why not, why not spread it? And if it's really underground, then why not? But like, even more the reason. Right. It's not yours. You don't make the music.

I hate when people feel ownership over something that's really underground and they're like, I discovered that. No, it's like spread it if you find it interesting. Yeah. Give me a sense of different phases growing up. Like, did they- Lodi, that's a good question, though, because I went through so many phases.

I started from the beginning. Okay. So, um, musical theater. It was musical theater. I was a little Broadway kid. I was, I was gonna be a big star. And that was my obsession. I was gonna be, I had this shirt that said,

give me jazz hands. A bunch of stars and I wore like squirrels. This was my like, quirked out Zoe Day Chanel phase where I was also doing musical theater, but was like, I'm going to tap dance randomly. And I still tap dance a lot. I love tap dancing. So this was middle school. Okay. And then I discovered Radiohead. And I was like, oh, there's darkness in me. And I started listening to OK computer. And I was like, oh, my God, there's this whole other side to me. Oh, my God. I'm going to use this for my acting. And it actually kind of helped. Of course it helped. Music helps with everything.

Yeah. So I discovered that. And then me and my sister started making zombie movies, and this was us going darker into everything. And we were making zombie movies. And I was starting to kind of like, I think I got a tumbler around like 13, 13. Okay. And I was like reblogging a lot of like Christine F.

Okay. Which is fucked up. It's an amazing movie, but like really dark. And then I. I created a Shugays Tumblr, or I was like, everything is, I felt very, like, bleak and it was just, like, peak. Like, I had a comb over. Sure. I wore my Joy Division shirt every day.

I played piano a lot, and then I had my Omnicord, and I started making music. And this is early high school. Shugays was kind of like, like, my buddy Valentine was every day blasting in my headfell. when I was walking through school. It was, I haven't really, it's hard for me to listen to it now because it's so high school and it's so of that time for me. But then Elliot Smith always, I have a tattoo I know, right? Good job.

Is that the only one? Is that the only? I know you have a couple. Yeah, no, I have this and then I have, this is just something I wanted. It's a locket. I don't know what it means. It doesn't mean anything. Okay.

Elliot Smith was like the phase always always there in my life at what age did you get the tattoo the first tattoo 17 okay 18 um which is like makes sense to get Elliot's appropriate it feels right um so I mean you're you're growing up though I mean you have a few siblings you have a twin we should say and she lives with me now that's that right yeah it's crazy I mean it's been really fun we've just been like making music nonstop and How do I know for a fact this is Sophie and this is not. We're so different. We are really so different and I can't quite describe it. But I think because we grew up in different circumstances and I've been forced to, not forced.

Let's be clear. That's not forced. But like I'm around people a lot and I grew up really introverted, but it has broken me out of my shell. Yeah. And I think she makes claymations and that's such a, you know. You can be on your own and just sort of do your. Oh, and just live in that. the house for years.

So I think that's the difference between us, but it's been nice. I've just been working on music. And she'll be working on her masks. And then we'll just like go back and, it feels like a crazy, like, artist environment right now. And it's really nice. So it is interesting the way you describe it

because like it sounds like you're sewing your own head a lot as a kid, but you also have this need, want to perform. Yeah. And be on a stage. Yeah. That's like two ginormously different things. Well, yeah, I think that like playing characters was the escape.

Right. And even when I was younger, I was obsessed with writing and wrote, oh my God. I'm so lucky that because I'm so young, I can go back my Google Docs from like 2012. And I was 12 and I was like, this wizard. I like, wizard. I wrote Howells Moving Castle fan fiction. Sure. All this like crazy shit that I can look back on just like go through.

or a trip down memory lane to have that so accessible. Right. Is a blessing, but also like, whoa. Is it all like the, what about the stuff you did online, like the tumblers and stuff? Is that all been like, is that out there? Is it exist? It's still there. I still, I think it's just soapy tea now.

I changed it. You can go back. It's all just like, it's just shoegaze. It's all just music. And then I was like gradually kind of changing and like developing my taste through that and what I actually like. But I do kind of, I hate to like give Tumblr that credit because it is just like, you know, it's recycling a lot of stuff. Sure. It helped.

So what's the relationship become, though, with me like chronically online when you become like the subject of stuff like online? Like every, yeah, I just, I click not interested. You're trying to purify the algorithm. You know, like the algorithm is fucked. even when my friends send me stuff because I know that I'm in some memes or like I'm aware of it

but it's so so incredibly disconnected from who I actually am and I think because I'm able to disconnect that makes me sane yeah it would be worrisome if you were like yeah I'm in it and I'm reading everything about me

well no no no I go through phases I go through phases where it's like and everybody does. Sure. Where I mean, I've said this before, but when Yellow Jackets came out, I was on Reddit and it would spend like hours on Reddit and everyone was just like her wig. It's clearly a wig. And I was like, what about my acting? But that must be in particular, Yellow Jackets, which is such like a oh no, people want opinions. And it's like it is why it's an interesting show. It's like asking for people to participate and I want to be a part of projects that

ask people to engage. Right. But then sometimes it feels personal even though the wig was, you know, it's like, that's so random and it's people just want to say something to say something a lot of the time. Even when like, yeah, I mean, there are aspects where it's like, you know, you're being shipped and you probably shipped others when you were a kid, I would imagine. Yeah. Shipped? Yeah. Oh, shipped like. Like the couples, you know, like if they want to see manifested. Yeah, I'm like, what of, I don't know, there's a lot of like yellow jackets to stranger things, like the alt kids and stranger things, they're always like. Right. I see the fan edits of that.

I was never really like a, I would like write fan fiction, but it was always, it was always about Miyazaki or my so called life. I would cause play, which is so, I was just so obsessed with Claire Daines and aren't we all? and Angela Chase and would write these. Your spurt animal as a character. That was you. That was me. Yeah, yeah. I dyed my hair red when I was 12, 13.

They're like introspective. And I would like steal, I would look up on IMDB her quotes and say them out loud in the mirror and then steal them, copy and paste them into these like fan fiction forums and people be like, genius. It's a well written show. everyone should watch it. It's so funny because, like, again, I'm a bit older than you. Like, I literally am like, Claire Daines was a freshman

in my same high school when I was a senior. So, like, she's a contemporary. And I remember obviously what that show was at the time. Like, to you, it was probably so different. Well, it was huge. I mean, no, it was also, it was also, it was huge because also there was less of that. Like, I mean, there was authentic.

It was authentic. And that, and that was very unique at the time. Ricky was the first gay character, openly gay character on television, which is crazy. Jordan Catalano's like influence on a generation. I think I've realized that I've grown up because I like Brian Crackow and not Jordan Catalano.

This is a marker. This is a marker. I'm like, I am maturing. It's the same. What's the Felicity thing? I don't know if you ever watched Felicity. It's like no and Ben. It's the same kind of differentiating.

We go back to it and you're like, oh, my God, I can see clearly now. Does your taste now like run? Obviously, you've got highbrow. Do you got lowbrow too? Like is it running gamut? Oh yeah. What's an example of lowbrow? I mean, I've been through phases, especially while I'm shooting TV.

I can only watch reality TV. 90 day fiance has taken over much of my life. And I'm not regretful of it because you get to learn a lot about different cultures and different countries. It's like crazy circumstances. God, I really want to watch below deck. That's what everyone keeps saying. to me. I haven't, but I know people are obsessed. People are obsessed. Summer House, everyone's talking. They're talking about the summer house now. Summer House, what's that? That's like, is another,

it's another one. I'm, yeah, I'm, yeah, I'm just find watching actors while I'm acting, I'm like, oh. Right. I need to disconnect, even if it's reality TV and people are still acting as all meta. It's like, yeah, it's a different kind of disconnect, or it's like, I can't relate to that set. It's a different set life where I'm like, yeah, I'm not thinking. about how everything is so technical because it's so hard to get out of my head when I'm watching TV while I'm doing TV but what I mean B movies too I love yeah what would constitute a B movie like modern B movies or like old school what are what are modern there's no what is that what does that mean that's a good question yeah I don't even know everything's DIY it's like would a modern B movie be on your phone right what does that mean

Modern, my favorite, I always reference this. Hell comes to Frogtown. I don't know. See, again, you're more sophisticated than me. If you look up photos of that, I'm obsessed with like crazy bad masks. Sure. And really, just when it's really like as tacky as possible. This isn't a B movie, but Peter Jackson's Meet the Feebles is like adjacent to that.

And anything within that realm is like, God, that's my sweet spot. It's there's like a heartfelt quality to it because you know that everyone is pouring their blood, sweat, and soul into it for shit product. But not for Meet the Feebles. Meet the Feebles is genius. Well, that's why like one of my all time favorite films is Ed Wood, like, which is like this like ode to like people that were so devoted to the craft that they weren't capable of making great art, but they were just trying. They just pulled everything into it and you feel it. And that's what, you know, it's so so incredibly charming when I find that, like, people are doing practical effects. Yeah.

It's just like an easier way to immerse yourself. And I hope we can lean back into that, but I doubt that. I just saw a movie this morning with a ton of prosthetics. I mean, it's a ginormous movie, but it's like the Supergirl movie. Like, I will say it's a lot of prosthetics. I didn't. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Oh, that's sick. Yeah. And you can tell it feels different. 100%. Even if it looks bad, it's like there's like a nostalgia to it as well. You're destined for a Guillermo moment at some point, right? It's gonna happen. One of the first Pan's Labyrinth scoured me.

I walked in and I was seven years old to this scene. That's a lot. Yeah. That's a lot for a 30-year-old. But then it like, it like scarred me in such a way. And then I was like, I learned, I was obsessive waltzes. And then I learned the Pants Labyrinth theme song on piano. And I would just play it over and over being scarred, thinking about that.

And so tortured. Explains a lot. But God, that movie is genius. I recently rewatch it and was like, this holds up so well. That segues it to. I always like talking to people about like the other films they saw a little bit too young. that scarred them. So Pan's Labyrinth is one.

What are any other examples of a movie? You're like, oh, in retrospect, why was I watching this at that age that jump out? Well, definitely so many. 20 days later, which I bring up a lot because I was like 12. You went through your zombie face. That spawned the zombie movies. Of course.

It was the best of best. Yeah. I don't know. I had like, I had like, I was very scared of everyone watches Gobble to Fire, Harry Potter. but the something about the like offness within the CGI of the mermaids. Uh-huh.

Oh my God. I still look at it. I'm like, because the CGI is so bad, there's this uncanny element to it that I captured as a kid that I was like, oh, something's wrong. I don't know what is. There's something awfulness. And I, that was scar me and my older sister would torment me and just like point her phone to me and it was just the mermaid. And that, um, I think I have a thing for mermaids.

Mermen for Cabin in the Woods. Right. You know, that last sec. I love that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The merman, man, merman. He's like flopping. And I watched that, that was like 14 or something.

It was horrifying. Yeah. I think I'm discovering something right now. Yeah, we're all discovering at the same time together. What about, okay, my God. We can talk just about reference points. But we'll talk about career stuff too. But I do, I'm like,

but I do before we get to do your actual work, gaming also, you're a huge, were or are a huge gamer? I'm not a good gamer. No, does that mean? You don't have to be like, who's testing you.

It like takes me a really long time and I cheat through everything, but you have to cheat. It's okay. You have to watch the walkthroughs. What's the biggest time suck game of your illustrious? Well, Sims, without a doubt. I was talking about.

that earlier today because I had the talk with Hideo Kojima and doing a talk with him was just so I was like you're a god you're a god to us yeah anything I say I'm scared yeah but he's so charming that I mean Silent Hill 2 I think has the most heart for me Silent Hill 2 um there's a bunch of games that I want to play I have a PS2 PS3 PS 4 PS5 a wee I think my Xbox is broken. I have like two, three different sets of an Oculus. You're equipped.

You've got options. Like three switches. It's good to have backups just in case. I don't game that much. I don't anymore. Okay. But it used to be such a huge part of my childhood that just having it in my house

and seeing it, I'm like, yeah, safe place. If I'm ever going through a low point, I'm just going to immerse myself into this. Your 14 game consoles. Yes. It's now, I mean, that's the new IP, as you well know. It's like, it's horror, but also it is like now Hollywood has figured out, oh, gaming is bigger than Hollywood.

Oh, yeah. I mean, Ella doing the fallout. Yeah. Yeah. I brought her to my apartment the first season because I was, I tried. Well, I had a night where I brought all the yellow jackets girls over and I was like, I'm going to create every one of you on Sims. It took hours and people got so bored. Because I was trying to get them right.

You have a call time in an hour, Sophie. I didn't know. Like, Sophie, what do you do? I was like, no. Got to get your nose right. And I did it. And then I tried to create Ella on Fallout. And that was her first introduction.

And she was like, turn it off. It's scary graphics. And I was like, that's fair. Yeah. It is like that uncanny, specifically, yeah, Fallout at New Vegas has that like, where it's like kind of realistic, but not, it's of that era.

Right. where it's like, it's just uncanny and then Fallout 3 is like really good graphics, especially I remember when that came out. I was like, these are the best graphics of all time. I'm excited that like, you know, again, I sound old when I say this, but like the new generation of filmmakers like people like Zach Greger doing like Resident Evil. It's like, oh yeah, let the. Oh my God, Resident Evil is.

Yeah. Let them do their spin on. And it can be so, I mean, video games are so incredibly cinematic and Hideo Kijima is the greatest example of that. Yeah, exactly. Where he's using also like the best of the best actors and the best of the best actors want to work with him. And I want to work with him too. More happy say confused coming up.

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You acted in films. I'm not just like into pop culture, nerdy stuff. This acting gig's going pretty well. Talk to me a little bit about the early days of kind of when you went pro, as it were. You're doing a lot of theater early on. Yeah. But what do you remember? Like, were you, what kind of auditions were you going up for early?

Were you typecast right from the start? Like, what do you remember early days? It took me a while to figure out my typecasting and now I'm real in it. I'm kidding. When I was younger, I was like trying to fit myself into, I was the musical theater girl that wore the jazz hand shirts and tap dance and was, you know, listening to really like dark music, but, you know, like balancing all these things. And I would always go on these Disney auditions.

And I remember getting a callback for one of them. And I lied to everyone in my sixth grade class being like, I'm going to be on Disney Channel, you guys. Because I wanted to be popular, and I was popular for two days. And then they realized, they kept asking. And I was like, I have nothing to give you. I don't know. And they suck.

It's illegal. It's really, it's going to get. I can't. I can't. I can't tell you. So, but that, it was just like feeling really out of place. And like, I was always too off. And then I think doing prospects was like a good because,

I was like, I mean, I've always kind of played outcast and they saw that it wasn't like a put on. It was like, oh, finally I can like play myself or even lean into the offness of everything. What do you remember of like hitting those first marks being in front of a camera of a professional production? Yeah. No, not even joking. Like Chicago men, Chicago PD. I was like, I don't think I can deliver lines in front of camera. It was so scary because I grew up.

in theater and having to do one line and having to prove yourself within that two seconds. Specifically within procedural TV and I still find that when I have these one liners even with the yellow jackets the other day I was like I can't do it. I have one like I need a scene to get into it. Interesting. It feels like commercial act.

It feels like not real. So that I, yeah. My heart was just like racing and it was like the first couple of days in prospect. I was like, I don't think I can do it. And then I did it. And it just became so natural that I was like, it's not more exciting than theater.

I mean, I haven't done theater in so long and I think it would be so interesting to go back with this experience now. Yeah. I think I've kind of regressed in ways within technicality. I need to work on my diction. I need to not more vocal fry.

But, I would love to go back to that, but it was so, it was like a block when I was first on screen. Yeah. It was like I couldn't connect. The camera was like, the devil. And now it's this weird thing now too, where sometimes I'll go to set now and I'll be anxious for a bit. And then I'll come to my close up and I'll be like, oh, I can breathe now because I'm in another character and the camera sees me. Interesting.

It's like a friend. Yeah. Got to make friends with a camera. You can't be an enemy. No, no, no, no, no. It's going to be a long shoot otherwise. I don't know how that transition happened. But, like, I feel so much more comfortable when it's on my close-up.

Yeah. When it's right here because I can't lie. And once I can just fully go into that headspace that's Sophie's gone, something else comes up. Yeah, I'm always fascinated by, like, the sort of actors I've talked to over the years that have like, they have such a high BS detector that they're their toughest, they're their own toughest critic. like Kristen Stewart infamously. I always bring her up. She's always told me in others like it's like she'll just cut in the middle of a take if she just feels like it's.

It's like, no, this is not real. And I'm learning that too because it's like there's guilt that comes with that where you're like, oh God, I'm holding up production. And specifically within TV when it's so fast moving, it's like, I can't really do that. But oh, God, when you just have to call cut. I mean, absolutely. And I'm learning that and I'm finally starting to speak up for myself

because you disengage so quickly when something is off or when you're distracted. So you alluded to this earlier, but you're kind of in the home stretch for yellow jackets, which is obviously such a pivot, is going to always be a pivotal part of your life, a chunk of your life that you were returning to for about five, six years, right?

What do you remember? I mean, like when you think back to Sophie that was on set those first few days, like were you a different actor, you think? Were you a different human being? Like, is it... It's a good question. Yes and no.

No, I think, I think I'm still pretty much the same. I think I'm lighter now. I think I carried a lot of darkness or wanted to carry a lot of darkness and was very obsessed with perception when I was younger. And it almost feels, you brought this up earlier, but when I was younger, I was trying to be older and now I'm kind of just like,

I can be my age because I'm not ashamed of my age. It was always, it was the shame within being young and feeling like I'd live so many lives. I was like, no, like you don't see like, I'm 12, but like, I've lived another life before. I have value my perspective, even though I'm like, I grew up the internet, like I know so much. I packed a lot in.

I packed a lot going on of here. And now it's like I'd let go of all of that. And I feel much more myself now. Yeah. And I feel much more. I think when I was like my early days on being on camera, I was just obsessed with, being just natural, just be natural, just throw it away.

I was like taking all these on-camera classes and it was horrendous when you'd get notes, it was just throw it away. And I was like, God, what a terrible note. But that's kind of what was going on in my mind where I was like, just, you know. It's funny. It's like, coming from theater too. It like makes sense to have that mentality, but it's not something that's going to create for a dynamic or interesting performance.

And it was just like me early in my career thinking, though. Well, it's this contradiction of like actively trying to be natural as opposed to just being natural. You know what I mean? Like think about it. Just be natural. Be natural. Oh, and then it's like robotic and it's still to. And it's still.

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. I mean, acting is like thinking about directing and thinking about giving notes is so incredibly convoluted and challenging. But I think, you know, the best directors know how to uplift. somebody and know how much to give him not too much it's so psychological yeah it's so there's so much to it that I would I would I know everybody says this but I would just like dive into that just to like learn because I've I helped friends with self tapes and I know

that's so incredibly different but you're giving people notes sure I love giving I love being busy so I'm like this would be great um So one day, maybe. What do you think the, I mean, the one to punch especially of heretic and companion, well, I think both in the calendar year last year was, I mean, that's a meaningful career kind of like. Yeah, it was a good year. What is that, you know, done for you from a career perspective, from a goals perspective,

you know, I know you love the genre space, you love horror, but you obviously want to have a well-rounded career. You want to do all the things. where are you at in terms of prioritizing? It's interesting. I'm at a really strange point in my career where it's like both of those characters they were slightly different

but still in the same world and I know that I want my goal is to be character actor and people say that but I want to play something that's so oppositional to who I am and because people are seeing, and then even her private hell,

it's like a heightened, far more tortured version of, like he was kind of basing certain elements off of me or even stylistically, and a lot of people can't look past that. And I'm, it's this hard point in my career where I'm balancing being a blank slate

and having personality and making music and making art and putting out the art that you like and having taste. And I'm trying to separate the two and I'm trying to figure out how to separate the two but a lot of people can't look past it.

Yeah. And I'm just asking people to dive a little deeper and, you know, to search for something deeper and look for something else because I just, it's not even wanting to prove myself,

it's just to prove to myself that I, um, I just want to have fun and be somebody else for a second and not always always being like the darkest of sure I don't think I've ever had a

well I did do a I did a film called Peaches that was quite light and I was like this is the most challenging experience of my life because it's so light but I need to get used to that so I can you know not just always live in such a because I'm not like that in real life but something about on camera it's like I

it's a place that I immediately turn to because it feels comfortable and it feels cathartic because the camera sees me. Yeah. And letting those emotion on camera, it's like, that's a therapy session right there. Therapy for free. Yeah, for free. I can cry.

And the camera's like, I see you. I hear you. Hopefully. And here's your check. This is great. Well, maybe you're due for the Susical, the musical. I was in Susickel. I know that's why I say that.

You did you rese. I mean, of course you did. There was a picture of me with like, I played a monkey in it. And I had the Paul Frank shirt. God, what a good. Good gig. What a good show. I'm saying, it might be time for a musical theater return.

No, I have that side. I have that goofy side. Juliet's doing, I just saw Juliet do Rocky Horror here in town. So cool. Right? Is she still doing it? I think so. I saw it a couple of weeks, guys.

I mean, Rocky Horror is the best of the best. The best. I love a dark musical, a little shop, a Sweenie Todd. Don't even get me sturdling. Sweetie Todd, like Sweenie Todd is my childhood. Sondheim is the reason why I'm acting. Sondime is life. Sondime is everything.

What's the Sondheim of choice? Is it Sweeney Todd? That's a really hard question. Oh, God, it's changing. It depends on what point I'm at my life emotion. because every musical is so emotional. Merely we roll along is probably the most heartfelt for me. Into the Woods was like one of the first shows I saw.

My older sister was in it. And I saw her do that. I've actually never seen Sunday in the park with George, but one day. But all of everything, everything. And where are you at? I mean, the only franchisee kind of thing you've done in Star Wars, you did Bookabot with Fett. Yeah, yeah.

I mean, I would imagine you're on a short list of like Marvel would kill to have you, like, the X-Men. Like, there's the fan art. I've seen the rogue stuff. I don't know if you've seen that out there. I see what I tagged yet. I'm like, interesting. Where are you at on that kind of idea?

I'm open if it's a director that's down to collaborate and listen to me and I'm not just, you know, I want to have a voice. And I know that's absolutely possible, and people do that all the time, but I would just want to make sure it's the right story being told, especially if it's such a huge franchise. It's like that itself has such an impact, and I want to make sure it's the right story, and it's, you know, not just spreading like violence and shock value, but something meaningful. Yeah.

Does X-Men have any meaning for you? as a kid, did you watch the cartoon or anything? That's the blue people. There's my answer. So I want to get a lot of hate on that one. No, you're fine. Like Jennifer Lawrensen, like blue. She was mystique.

You got that. Mystique. Yes. Sorry. Okay. Hannah Pack when it was rogue back in the day. Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I'm open. She's open. Yes. Always. I'm open to anything. It is that interesting point. I mean, imagine for the first time in recent years where, like, you have choice as an actor.

It's bizarre. Yeah, I haven't done like a self-tape in a while and I'm like I'm starting to feel like an imposter or something or like I forgot how to act or something because I haven't done a self-tape. But is that weird the first couple times you had to say no to something? Like this goes against everything. Guilt. Guilt. So much guilt. But, you know, ultimately, again, it's about finding the right collaborator because that's what you take with you for the rest of your life. Were you, are you a good, I don't know if they do even conventional auditions anymore. It's all self-tapes. Like, did you ever- Was I good at auditioning? Auditioning? I slayed. Did you really? I mean, I was like, I was a kid from Chicago and I would go in the room and

something, and something would, again, it was like being in front of it just made sense. Being just in front of a couple of people, I was like, oh, God, I can finally turn on and be myself, but not be my, be something else. Right. And then you lost that within self-tapes. I feel like for a while I wasn't booking when I was a certain age. Because you have to be in the room and flip that switch. Yeah. Wait, is it true? I think I read somewhere that you used to almost like manifest by like writing before an audition. Psycho.

Yeah. What was it? You would like, I'm going to get this kind of thing or like. The specific memory that pops up to my head was writing down everything that was going to happen in the audition, writing down the lyrics of the song, writing down what people were like writing down how everything was going to go out. and then at the end ending with like I don't know how many I forgot how many times but like I'm going to book this I'm going to book this and then at least doing like three pages of writing that was psycho it was like some slight OCD possibly stuff and I just had a lot of stuff like that

where I was like if I don't do this I'm going to fail but it was like me trying to gain power and confidence control over the situation that was control and it helped because it was placebo Yeah. Okay, so coming up, you still have a couple of months you said left to shoot yellow jackets. Are you emotionally prepared for what's going to be? The end? Yeah. Have you read The End? Do you know how it is? I'm, yo, lorry.

It makes me emotional thinking about it because it's such a huge part of my life. And it's like what most people know me for. So it kind of feels like letting go of like a really integral, important part of yourself. and like what will I feel empty will I I I want to I really want to explore different options so I think that's the biggest feeling that like there's opportunity and space and freedom and space and I have time like I have a whole like instead of half a year a couple months that's huge I have a whole year to do weird projects and take a lot of swings and do that and not just choose like two movies a year and then yellow jackets.

And whatever can fit in. Whatever can fit in. Yeah. So that feels, that's really exciting, but it's going to be so emotional when we end. I already know that Melanie is planning a karaoke party and we've been doing a lot of karaoke, karaoke's life. So I'm excited for that and I'm going to be planning my songs for then. She's an angel on earth, Melanie Linsky.

Come on. Oh my God. The sweetest human being. And so talented and just, ugh. So cool. Like, oh, my God. Talking about, like, someone that has good music taste, we've been trying to, like, get these band T-shirts on the show.

We got this band The Bats on the show. She has such good taste. And immediately, I was in the pavement music video, and she was like, pavement. And I was like, I know I won't do. Fellow in the head! Are you going to be working Jennifer Kent? Is that movie hopefully happening?

Oh, my gosh. She's amazing. I also talking about good. I know it, like, doesn't taste me. a lot of things, but you can see within, it like goes deeper when someone has good taste and especially music. Music says everything about someone. And she, like, all we do is just send each other music.

And it's really, it's like, it's beautiful. Nice. Okay, we end happy, second fuse every time with a profoundly random question. You ready, Sophie? Yes. I mean, it's already been random, to be honest, but we go even deeper. Dogs or cats?

Huh. It's okay. dogs. Dogs, I grew up with dogs. I grew up with Cocker Spaniels. And I think about that game on the, you probably didn't grow up with this. Nintendo Dogs?

Yes. With a Z. And I had a Cocker Spaniel named Annie on that. And like she's just forever in my head. And I'm gonna got a King Cavalier Cocker Spaniel and name her Annie. Because I sent her to the pet hotel. And I didn't realize that the pet hotel

was like sending your dog to heaven. Oh. And I never got her back. So I got, I'm sorry. I do something about that. There you go. And you had Sawyer named after the character was a loss, right? Yeah.

Yeah. All the Cocker Spaniels in my life. Sawyer, yeah. I'll just have a bunch of Cocker Spaniels, like the whitest dog out there for sure. What do you collect? He has band T-shirts. Not to be.

I'm trying to think of like something. Monkey. Monkey. I'm kind of fizzling out of the monkey phase, but I'm obsessed with rangatangs. You're collecting rangatangs, just actual monkeys? Yeah, not actual. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. They're stuffed animals.

Okay. And as I was moving, I was like, oh, my God. Like, I have, like, a whole shelf. I probably have, like, 30 plush toys of, because any time I see one, I'm like, it's going to me. Come home with me. You're coming home with me. You're meeting your new friends. So Zat and Pan T-shirts.

Yeah. And gaming consoles. And gaming consoles that I don't need. We covered this but favorite video game of all time. It's the Sims. Sims has my heart. Sims has my heart. Okay.

The Dakota Johnson Memorial question. She asked me this. I ask everybody. Would you rather have a mouthful of bees or one being your butt? One be your butt. That's like, that's not that bad. I want to be able to talk. Yeah.

Connect. Sensible lady. What's the wallpaper on your phone? Elliot Smith. On brand. I'm so easy to fucking predict. Who's the last actor you were mistaken for? Sophie Turner.

Because Sophie Thatcher, Sophie Turner, and she's on Game of Thrones, and that's huge. And then I met her one day. I was like, whoa. It's like that like Spider-Man maimer. Like, I mean, we don't look like, but. Similar names ish. Did she get the reverse? Did she not that she got in Sophie Thatch?

Hell no, no. I don't know. What's the worst note of director has ever given you? Oh shit. I'm like, I don't want to like off somebody. You know, doesn't name names. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.

The worst note. Well, it's always like, this is so basic, but throw it away. I would get a note and it really threw me off. And it was B. 5 a.m. Sophie, which means like no. thoughts. So that threw me off. It wasn't a bad note, but it would just always throw me off. And I'd be like, what is that mean? You're like, no thoughts, none. Okay, let me not think. Let me be stupid. So that was really hard. Yeah. When it gets like intellect or like,

abstract like that. Yeah, sometimes you want practical, just like. Sometimes I'm like, just tell me something specific and on the nose. I would prefer that. Faster, slower. Actor. Right. And in the spirit of happy second fused, who's an actor who always makes you happy. An actor who always Philip Seymour Hoffman. Love it. Movie that makes you sad. I'm going to say Wings of Desire and I always bring that up, but it makes me like devastated. Well, Vinders action, right?

Vendors. Oh, he was at Cannes and I really wanted to meet him, but I didn't. Yeah. One day. And finally, a food that makes you confused. You don't get it. Black licorice. Oh. Disgusting. It's kind of like a cilantro thing for some people.

It's just... Black liquor is like the most disgusting thing I've ever tasted in my life. No, I feel like very strongly about it. I can tell. No. Yeah. Okay. We won't make you happen.

Not even confused. It's not confused. It's like pure. Hatred. Happy sad. Hatred. My new spin-off show. Sophie, thanks for taking the time today.

Thank you. This was a blast. Congratulations on everything that's come, and I'm so excited to tag along future years. So nice. Getting started. Same. And so ends another edition of Happy, Sad, Confused. Remember to review, rate, and subscribe to this show on iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts.

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